mad - kid in kindergarten has late birthday

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get it op. My late-August birthday girl was called a baby and told she belonged in pre-k because she was still 5 in the late spring of her kindergarten year, by the 7 year olds in the class. Blatant red-shirting skews the dynamics.

I hate this. Redshirt a summer birthday if you feel they aren't ready, but kids with a birthday during the year should not be redshirted at parent discretion (it should be the school's call) and if you do hold a kid like this back, teachers should be proactive about shutting down this kind of teasing/bullying. It happened to my kid too (early August birthday and a full 2 months before the cutoff of September 30th) and it was really frustrating because the attitude of some parents seems to be "if you don't like it, you should redshirt." But that's nuts. You should be able to send a child who is prepared on time and not assume they will get harassed by redshirted kids for being too small.

I have a late summer birthday who was sent ahead, despite being a month younger than the cutoff date. She passed the readiness interview and the school took her early (private school). She is small for her age and was called a baby in K by some of the kids. Luckily the other kids’ parents and the teachers shut that down pretty quickly. Everyone thought she was ready, despite being very young and small for her age. Fast forward a few years - she’s a straight A student and socially well adjusted. I debated if I made the right call not to hold her with her age. Turns out the other kids come from good families that don’t put up with child antics and neither do the teachers. I am grateful for this. Redshirting should be a decision for the school and parents; it is very unique to the children involved. (I send her to a competitive private that normally recommends to redshirt - but not always).

Agree it should be a joint decision by the school and the parents. I think it should be at a parents discretion for a child near the cut off (within 2 months or so) but otherwise it should be a consultation with the school.

One element at play is that unless you have older children, I think parents don't always understand what it means to be ready for kindergarten. It can be hard to look at your 4 year old or just-turned 5 year old and imagine them in elementary school in a few months. But the vast majority of 5 yr olds are totally fine starting kindergarten on time. It's also common for children to have stuff they need to work on, and that doesn't make them unready. I had a kid who started reading on her own the summer before K, but who was very young for her grade and maybe even a little socially immature for her age. To be perfectly honest, there was no "right" answer for her, because sending on time made sense academically but was more of a challenge socially, but holding her back might have eased some of the social stuff but potentially also been a mess because her preschool classroom definitely couldn't support where she was at academically. I think situations like this are more common than we are willing to admit.

Which is why I think it's important that these decisions be made with the school in all cases except kids truly on the cusp in terms of birthday. And yes, I guess that means I don't totally trust other parents to do what's right. I don't! People make mistakes all the time with parenting and since this is a decision that will impact the overall make up of grade cohorts, I don't think it should just be at the parents discretion. There was a PP flipping out about this and the idea that you might need an assessment or consultation with the school in order to be allowed to redshirt, and I just don't understand why that would be an issue. I think it would be clarifying. My kids have taken all kind of placement screenings in life -- I find it useful because usually the school or activity is much better positioned to make sure my kid is in the appropriate level in terms of both readiness and challenge.

ITA.

I'm skeptical of anyone who balks at the idea of involving the ES in the decision to redshirt. If you are doing it because you are concerned about child's readiness -- not to confer a competitive advantage by being older and bigger -- then you should welcome school's input. I agree that so many parents really don't know what Kindergarten readiness looks like -- Kindergarten is in very large part for working on SEL.

What you're missing is that with private schools it's often at the suggestion of the school. You all need to make up your minds about who you're mad at here. The schools love kids ready to hit the ground running and learning even if that means fewer 4 year olds and more kids about to turn 6.

No one is missing that. If a private school wants to redshirt a significant part of a class, presumable any family buying into that school is on board with it. If you weren't, you'd just pick another school.

I think most people are talking about redshirting in public schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get it op. My late-August birthday girl was called a baby and told she belonged in pre-k because she was still 5 in the late spring of her kindergarten year, by the 7 year olds in the class. Blatant red-shirting skews the dynamics.

I hate this. Redshirt a summer birthday if you feel they aren't ready, but kids with a birthday during the year should not be redshirted at parent discretion (it should be the school's call) and if you do hold a kid like this back, teachers should be proactive about shutting down this kind of teasing/bullying. It happened to my kid too (early August birthday and a full 2 months before the cutoff of September 30th) and it was really frustrating because the attitude of some parents seems to be "if you don't like it, you should redshirt." But that's nuts. You should be able to send a child who is prepared on time and not assume they will get harassed by redshirted kids for being too small.

I have a late summer birthday who was sent ahead, despite being a month younger than the cutoff date. She passed the readiness interview and the school took her early (private school). She is small for her age and was called a baby in K by some of the kids. Luckily the other kids’ parents and the teachers shut that down pretty quickly. Everyone thought she was ready, despite being very young and small for her age. Fast forward a few years - she’s a straight A student and socially well adjusted. I debated if I made the right call not to hold her with her age. Turns out the other kids come from good families that don’t put up with child antics and neither do the teachers. I am grateful for this. Redshirting should be a decision for the school and parents; it is very unique to the children involved. (I send her to a competitive private that normally recommends to redshirt - but not always).

Agree it should be a joint decision by the school and the parents. I think it should be at a parents discretion for a child near the cut off (within 2 months or so) but otherwise it should be a consultation with the school.

One element at play is that unless you have older children, I think parents don't always understand what it means to be ready for kindergarten. It can be hard to look at your 4 year old or just-turned 5 year old and imagine them in elementary school in a few months. But the vast majority of 5 yr olds are totally fine starting kindergarten on time. It's also common for children to have stuff they need to work on, and that doesn't make them unready. I had a kid who started reading on her own the summer before K, but who was very young for her grade and maybe even a little socially immature for her age. To be perfectly honest, there was no "right" answer for her, because sending on time made sense academically but was more of a challenge socially, but holding her back might have eased some of the social stuff but potentially also been a mess because her preschool classroom definitely couldn't support where she was at academically. I think situations like this are more common than we are willing to admit.

Which is why I think it's important that these decisions be made with the school in all cases except kids truly on the cusp in terms of birthday. And yes, I guess that means I don't totally trust other parents to do what's right. I don't! People make mistakes all the time with parenting and since this is a decision that will impact the overall make up of grade cohorts, I don't think it should just be at the parents discretion. There was a PP flipping out about this and the idea that you might need an assessment or consultation with the school in order to be allowed to redshirt, and I just don't understand why that would be an issue. I think it would be clarifying. My kids have taken all kind of placement screenings in life -- I find it useful because usually the school or activity is much better positioned to make sure my kid is in the appropriate level in terms of both readiness and challenge.

ITA.

I'm skeptical of anyone who balks at the idea of involving the ES in the decision to redshirt. If you are doing it because you are concerned about child's readiness -- not to confer a competitive advantage by being older and bigger -- then you should welcome school's input. I agree that so many parents really don't know what Kindergarten readiness looks like -- Kindergarten is in very large part for working on SEL.

What you're missing is that with private schools it's often at the suggestion of the school. You all need to make up your minds about who you're mad at here. The schools love kids ready to hit the ground running and learning even if that means fewer 4 year olds and more kids about to turn 6.

I can only speak for myself, but I was talking about public school...I know private school is very different on this front.

Ok. I haven't read a single legitimate complaint here about how any child was truly affected by another kid being a few months older. So far its parents don't like other parents bragging. And not getting enough play time as a starter in basketball for a kid who never had any basketball promise anyway. What am I missing? Anything else?

Then you either haven't been reading or you've just decided to define "legitimate" as only posts you agree with. A number of posters have talked about having kids who have been bullied or teased, either by redshirted kids or in general for being young, even though they were on time for the class (having a significant number of older kids in a K class is going to make the younger kids seem younger).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get it op. My late-August birthday girl was called a baby and told she belonged in pre-k because she was still 5 in the late spring of her kindergarten year, by the 7 year olds in the class. Blatant red-shirting skews the dynamics.

I hate this. Redshirt a summer birthday if you feel they aren't ready, but kids with a birthday during the year should not be redshirted at parent discretion (it should be the school's call) and if you do hold a kid like this back, teachers should be proactive about shutting down this kind of teasing/bullying. It happened to my kid too (early August birthday and a full 2 months before the cutoff of September 30th) and it was really frustrating because the attitude of some parents seems to be "if you don't like it, you should redshirt." But that's nuts. You should be able to send a child who is prepared on time and not assume they will get harassed by redshirted kids for being too small.

I have a late summer birthday who was sent ahead, despite being a month younger than the cutoff date. She passed the readiness interview and the school took her early (private school). She is small for her age and was called a baby in K by some of the kids. Luckily the other kids’ parents and the teachers shut that down pretty quickly. Everyone thought she was ready, despite being very young and small for her age. Fast forward a few years - she’s a straight A student and socially well adjusted. I debated if I made the right call not to hold her with her age. Turns out the other kids come from good families that don’t put up with child antics and neither do the teachers. I am grateful for this. Redshirting should be a decision for the school and parents; it is very unique to the children involved. (I send her to a competitive private that normally recommends to redshirt - but not always).

Agree it should be a joint decision by the school and the parents. I think it should be at a parents discretion for a child near the cut off (within 2 months or so) but otherwise it should be a consultation with the school.

One element at play is that unless you have older children, I think parents don't always understand what it means to be ready for kindergarten. It can be hard to look at your 4 year old or just-turned 5 year old and imagine them in elementary school in a few months. But the vast majority of 5 yr olds are totally fine starting kindergarten on time. It's also common for children to have stuff they need to work on, and that doesn't make them unready. I had a kid who started reading on her own the summer before K, but who was very young for her grade and maybe even a little socially immature for her age. To be perfectly honest, there was no "right" answer for her, because sending on time made sense academically but was more of a challenge socially, but holding her back might have eased some of the social stuff but potentially also been a mess because her preschool classroom definitely couldn't support where she was at academically. I think situations like this are more common than we are willing to admit.

Which is why I think it's important that these decisions be made with the school in all cases except kids truly on the cusp in terms of birthday. And yes, I guess that means I don't totally trust other parents to do what's right. I don't! People make mistakes all the time with parenting and since this is a decision that will impact the overall make up of grade cohorts, I don't think it should just be at the parents discretion. There was a PP flipping out about this and the idea that you might need an assessment or consultation with the school in order to be allowed to redshirt, and I just don't understand why that would be an issue. I think it would be clarifying. My kids have taken all kind of placement screenings in life -- I find it useful because usually the school or activity is much better positioned to make sure my kid is in the appropriate level in terms of both readiness and challenge.

ITA.

I'm skeptical of anyone who balks at the idea of involving the ES in the decision to redshirt. If you are doing it because you are concerned about child's readiness -- not to confer a competitive advantage by being older and bigger -- then you should welcome school's input. I agree that so many parents really don't know what Kindergarten readiness looks like -- Kindergarten is in very large part for working on SEL.

What you're missing is that with private schools it's often at the suggestion of the school. You all need to make up your minds about who you're mad at here. The schools love kids ready to hit the ground running and learning even if that means fewer 4 year olds and more kids about to turn 6.

I can only speak for myself, but I was talking about public school...I know private school is very different on this front.

Ok. I haven't read a single legitimate complaint here about how any child was truly affected by another kid being a few months older. So far its parents don't like other parents bragging. And not getting enough play time as a starter in basketball for a kid who never had any basketball promise anyway. What am I missing? Anything else?

Then you either haven't been reading or you've just decided to define "legitimate" as only posts you agree with. A number of posters have talked about having kids who have been bullied or teased, either by redshirted kids or in general for being young, even though they were on time for the class (having a significant number of older kids in a K class is going to make the younger kids seem younger).

Please bump those because I haven't seen any.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get it op. My late-August birthday girl was called a baby and told she belonged in pre-k because she was still 5 in the late spring of her kindergarten year, by the 7 year olds in the class. Blatant red-shirting skews the dynamics.

I hate this. Redshirt a summer birthday if you feel they aren't ready, but kids with a birthday during the year should not be redshirted at parent discretion (it should be the school's call) and if you do hold a kid like this back, teachers should be proactive about shutting down this kind of teasing/bullying. It happened to my kid too (early August birthday and a full 2 months before the cutoff of September 30th) and it was really frustrating because the attitude of some parents seems to be "if you don't like it, you should redshirt." But that's nuts. You should be able to send a child who is prepared on time and not assume they will get harassed by redshirted kids for being too small.

I have a late summer birthday who was sent ahead, despite being a month younger than the cutoff date. She passed the readiness interview and the school took her early (private school). She is small for her age and was called a baby in K by some of the kids. Luckily the other kids’ parents and the teachers shut that down pretty quickly. Everyone thought she was ready, despite being very young and small for her age. Fast forward a few years - she’s a straight A student and socially well adjusted. I debated if I made the right call not to hold her with her age. Turns out the other kids come from good families that don’t put up with child antics and neither do the teachers. I am grateful for this. Redshirting should be a decision for the school and parents; it is very unique to the children involved. (I send her to a competitive private that normally recommends to redshirt - but not always).

Agree it should be a joint decision by the school and the parents. I think it should be at a parents discretion for a child near the cut off (within 2 months or so) but otherwise it should be a consultation with the school.

One element at play is that unless you have older children, I think parents don't always understand what it means to be ready for kindergarten. It can be hard to look at your 4 year old or just-turned 5 year old and imagine them in elementary school in a few months. But the vast majority of 5 yr olds are totally fine starting kindergarten on time. It's also common for children to have stuff they need to work on, and that doesn't make them unready. I had a kid who started reading on her own the summer before K, but who was very young for her grade and maybe even a little socially immature for her age. To be perfectly honest, there was no "right" answer for her, because sending on time made sense academically but was more of a challenge socially, but holding her back might have eased some of the social stuff but potentially also been a mess because her preschool classroom definitely couldn't support where she was at academically. I think situations like this are more common than we are willing to admit.

Which is why I think it's important that these decisions be made with the school in all cases except kids truly on the cusp in terms of birthday. And yes, I guess that means I don't totally trust other parents to do what's right. I don't! People make mistakes all the time with parenting and since this is a decision that will impact the overall make up of grade cohorts, I don't think it should just be at the parents discretion. There was a PP flipping out about this and the idea that you might need an assessment or consultation with the school in order to be allowed to redshirt, and I just don't understand why that would be an issue. I think it would be clarifying. My kids have taken all kind of placement screenings in life -- I find it useful because usually the school or activity is much better positioned to make sure my kid is in the appropriate level in terms of both readiness and challenge.

ITA.

I'm skeptical of anyone who balks at the idea of involving the ES in the decision to redshirt. If you are doing it because you are concerned about child's readiness -- not to confer a competitive advantage by being older and bigger -- then you should welcome school's input. I agree that so many parents really don't know what Kindergarten readiness looks like -- Kindergarten is in very large part for working on SEL.

What you're missing is that with private schools it's often at the suggestion of the school. You all need to make up your minds about who you're mad at here. The schools love kids ready to hit the ground running and learning even if that means fewer 4 year olds and more kids about to turn 6.

I can only speak for myself, but I was talking about public school...I know private school is very different on this front.

Ok. I haven't read a single legitimate complaint here about how any child was truly affected by another kid being a few months older. So far its parents don't like other parents bragging. And not getting enough play time as a starter in basketball for a kid who never had any basketball promise anyway. What am I missing? Anything else?

Then you either haven't been reading or you've just decided to define "legitimate" as only posts you agree with. A number of posters have talked about having kids who have been bullied or teased, either by redshirted kids or in general for being young, even though they were on time for the class (having a significant number of older kids in a K class is going to make the younger kids seem younger).

Please bump those because I haven't seen any.

Do you think there should be grades at all? Should I be able to send my child to school at 2 if I think they're ready? Should I be able to hold them back 4 years because I want to travel first and can't be bothered? If you agree that there are some limits, then the question is what the limits should be. You may think there's no negative effect to sending a kid a few years early, but you obviously draw the line somewhere and are therefore making some kind of judgment that it matters if kids in a single class are about the same age.

In any case, having much older kids in a class can absolutely make it harder for the teacher to teach because it makes kids more dissimilar and it is easier to teach more similar kids. The teacher's job being harder makes it more likely that my kid's classroom experience won't be as good. There's also the bullying, boredom, sports domination, etc aspects. I don't begrudge parents who redshirted their kid because they and the school decided it was the appropriate decision in light of all facts (including the effects on the class s/he would go into) nor deny that it is an appropriate decision for some kids (and I have no trouble with a +/- 1 month judgment zone where we leave it entirely to parents). But given the number of parents I know who redshirted their boy so that he would have a competitive advantage particularly at sports (not actually so that they would be a superstar, but more for the social cache/confidence boosting reason), I absolutely do not trust that most parents are only doing this because their kid is legitimately behind in some way. There's a reason that non-school-based sports leagues use age cutoffs; it absolutely does matter and parents absolutely try to game the system. Why is it that for baseball we're like of course it's a problem have a kid play down even if they weren't great at baseball as a kid so started late... but in school it's super controversial to say that kids shouldn't typically redshirt?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get it op. My late-August birthday girl was called a baby and told she belonged in pre-k because she was still 5 in the late spring of her kindergarten year, by the 7 year olds in the class. Blatant red-shirting skews the dynamics.

I hate this. Redshirt a summer birthday if you feel they aren't ready, but kids with a birthday during the year should not be redshirted at parent discretion (it should be the school's call) and if you do hold a kid like this back, teachers should be proactive about shutting down this kind of teasing/bullying. It happened to my kid too (early August birthday and a full 2 months before the cutoff of September 30th) and it was really frustrating because the attitude of some parents seems to be "if you don't like it, you should redshirt." But that's nuts. You should be able to send a child who is prepared on time and not assume they will get harassed by redshirted kids for being too small.

I have a late summer birthday who was sent ahead, despite being a month younger than the cutoff date. She passed the readiness interview and the school took her early (private school). She is small for her age and was called a baby in K by some of the kids. Luckily the other kids’ parents and the teachers shut that down pretty quickly. Everyone thought she was ready, despite being very young and small for her age. Fast forward a few years - she’s a straight A student and socially well adjusted. I debated if I made the right call not to hold her with her age. Turns out the other kids come from good families that don’t put up with child antics and neither do the teachers. I am grateful for this. Redshirting should be a decision for the school and parents; it is very unique to the children involved. (I send her to a competitive private that normally recommends to redshirt - but not always).

Agree it should be a joint decision by the school and the parents. I think it should be at a parents discretion for a child near the cut off (within 2 months or so) but otherwise it should be a consultation with the school.

One element at play is that unless you have older children, I think parents don't always understand what it means to be ready for kindergarten. It can be hard to look at your 4 year old or just-turned 5 year old and imagine them in elementary school in a few months. But the vast majority of 5 yr olds are totally fine starting kindergarten on time. It's also common for children to have stuff they need to work on, and that doesn't make them unready. I had a kid who started reading on her own the summer before K, but who was very young for her grade and maybe even a little socially immature for her age. To be perfectly honest, there was no "right" answer for her, because sending on time made sense academically but was more of a challenge socially, but holding her back might have eased some of the social stuff but potentially also been a mess because her preschool classroom definitely couldn't support where she was at academically. I think situations like this are more common than we are willing to admit.

Which is why I think it's important that these decisions be made with the school in all cases except kids truly on the cusp in terms of birthday. And yes, I guess that means I don't totally trust other parents to do what's right. I don't! People make mistakes all the time with parenting and since this is a decision that will impact the overall make up of grade cohorts, I don't think it should just be at the parents discretion. There was a PP flipping out about this and the idea that you might need an assessment or consultation with the school in order to be allowed to redshirt, and I just don't understand why that would be an issue. I think it would be clarifying. My kids have taken all kind of placement screenings in life -- I find it useful because usually the school or activity is much better positioned to make sure my kid is in the appropriate level in terms of both readiness and challenge.

ITA.

I'm skeptical of anyone who balks at the idea of involving the ES in the decision to redshirt. If you are doing it because you are concerned about child's readiness -- not to confer a competitive advantage by being older and bigger -- then you should welcome school's input. I agree that so many parents really don't know what Kindergarten readiness looks like -- Kindergarten is in very large part for working on SEL.

What you're missing is that with private schools it's often at the suggestion of the school. You all need to make up your minds about who you're mad at here. The schools love kids ready to hit the ground running and learning even if that means fewer 4 year olds and more kids about to turn 6.

I can only speak for myself, but I was talking about public school...I know private school is very different on this front.

Ok. I haven't read a single legitimate complaint here about how any child was truly affected by another kid being a few months older. So far its parents don't like other parents bragging. And not getting enough play time as a starter in basketball for a kid who never had any basketball promise anyway. What am I missing? Anything else?

Then you either haven't been reading or you've just decided to define "legitimate" as only posts you agree with. A number of posters have talked about having kids who have been bullied or teased, either by redshirted kids or in general for being young, even though they were on time for the class (having a significant number of older kids in a K class is going to make the younger kids seem younger).

Please bump those because I haven't seen any.

Do you think there should be grades at all? Should I be able to send my child to school at 2 if I think they're ready? Should I be able to hold them back 4 years because I want to travel first and can't be bothered? If you agree that there are some limits, then the question is what the limits should be. You may think there's no negative effect to sending a kid a few years early, but you obviously draw the line somewhere and are therefore making some kind of judgment that it matters if kids in a single class are about the same age.

In any case, having much older kids in a class can absolutely make it harder for the teacher to teach because it makes kids more dissimilar and it is easier to teach more similar kids. The teacher's job being harder makes it more likely that my kid's classroom experience won't be as good. There's also the bullying, boredom, sports domination, etc aspects. I don't begrudge parents who redshirted their kid because they and the school decided it was the appropriate decision in light of all facts (including the effects on the class s/he would go into) nor deny that it is an appropriate decision for some kids (and I have no trouble with a +/- 1 month judgment zone where we leave it entirely to parents). But given the number of parents I know who redshirted their boy so that he would have a competitive advantage particularly at sports (not actually so that they would be a superstar, but more for the social cache/confidence boosting reason), I absolutely do not trust that most parents are only doing this because their kid is legitimately behind in some way. There's a reason that non-school-based sports leagues use age cutoffs; it absolutely does matter and parents absolutely try to game the system. Why is it that for baseball we're like of course it's a problem have a kid play down even if they weren't great at baseball as a kid so started late... but in school it's super controversial to say that kids shouldn't typically redshirt?

All of this. No one is saying that redshirting should be banned or that there aren't legitimate reasons to do it, but of course there should be limits and some of us feel the trend towards more redshirting, including redshirting of kids born in the spring, is really widening the window on what is acceptable to a degree that ultimately does a disservice to other children and the classroom environment as a whole.

I find the argument that I'm supposed to just trust other parents to do the right thing so weird. While I know plenty of parents who I feel reasonably confident wouldn't abuse redshirting in order to get their kid an advantage, I also know plenty who would. Not everyone is interested in "playing socially" and lots of people are just out for their own or their kid's interest and could not care at all who else it impacts. Which is why I start giving side eye when I see it normalized for a not-insignificant number of March or April birthdays to be redshirted. I'm sorry, but when a cohort has 10 spring birthdays and 5 of them are redshirted kids, we are not longer in the realm of people redshirting out of necessity. In no world are half of these kids unready for kindergarten.

I do think one thing that happens a lot is that one family will redshirt for totally legitimate reasons that might not be obvious to others, and this freaks out other competitive parents who then redshirt out of fear of being left behind. Literally for no other reason than because they heard some other kid with a May birthday is delaying kindergarten. Parents can be huge lemmings. Which is why having stricter cut offs and requiring some kind of justification that is approved by the school makes sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get it op. My late-August birthday girl was called a baby and told she belonged in pre-k because she was still 5 in the late spring of her kindergarten year, by the 7 year olds in the class. Blatant red-shirting skews the dynamics.

I hate this. Redshirt a summer birthday if you feel they aren't ready, but kids with a birthday during the year should not be redshirted at parent discretion (it should be the school's call) and if you do hold a kid like this back, teachers should be proactive about shutting down this kind of teasing/bullying. It happened to my kid too (early August birthday and a full 2 months before the cutoff of September 30th) and it was really frustrating because the attitude of some parents seems to be "if you don't like it, you should redshirt." But that's nuts. You should be able to send a child who is prepared on time and not assume they will get harassed by redshirted kids for being too small.

I have a late summer birthday who was sent ahead, despite being a month younger than the cutoff date. She passed the readiness interview and the school took her early (private school). She is small for her age and was called a baby in K by some of the kids. Luckily the other kids’ parents and the teachers shut that down pretty quickly. Everyone thought she was ready, despite being very young and small for her age. Fast forward a few years - she’s a straight A student and socially well adjusted. I debated if I made the right call not to hold her with her age. Turns out the other kids come from good families that don’t put up with child antics and neither do the teachers. I am grateful for this. Redshirting should be a decision for the school and parents; it is very unique to the children involved. (I send her to a competitive private that normally recommends to redshirt - but not always).

Agree it should be a joint decision by the school and the parents. I think it should be at a parents discretion for a child near the cut off (within 2 months or so) but otherwise it should be a consultation with the school.

One element at play is that unless you have older children, I think parents don't always understand what it means to be ready for kindergarten. It can be hard to look at your 4 year old or just-turned 5 year old and imagine them in elementary school in a few months. But the vast majority of 5 yr olds are totally fine starting kindergarten on time. It's also common for children to have stuff they need to work on, and that doesn't make them unready. I had a kid who started reading on her own the summer before K, but who was very young for her grade and maybe even a little socially immature for her age. To be perfectly honest, there was no "right" answer for her, because sending on time made sense academically but was more of a challenge socially, but holding her back might have eased some of the social stuff but potentially also been a mess because her preschool classroom definitely couldn't support where she was at academically. I think situations like this are more common than we are willing to admit.

Which is why I think it's important that these decisions be made with the school in all cases except kids truly on the cusp in terms of birthday. And yes, I guess that means I don't totally trust other parents to do what's right. I don't! People make mistakes all the time with parenting and since this is a decision that will impact the overall make up of grade cohorts, I don't think it should just be at the parents discretion. There was a PP flipping out about this and the idea that you might need an assessment or consultation with the school in order to be allowed to redshirt, and I just don't understand why that would be an issue. I think it would be clarifying. My kids have taken all kind of placement screenings in life -- I find it useful because usually the school or activity is much better positioned to make sure my kid is in the appropriate level in terms of both readiness and challenge.

ITA.

I'm skeptical of anyone who balks at the idea of involving the ES in the decision to redshirt. If you are doing it because you are concerned about child's readiness -- not to confer a competitive advantage by being older and bigger -- then you should welcome school's input. I agree that so many parents really don't know what Kindergarten readiness looks like -- Kindergarten is in very large part for working on SEL.

What you're missing is that with private schools it's often at the suggestion of the school. You all need to make up your minds about who you're mad at here. The schools love kids ready to hit the ground running and learning even if that means fewer 4 year olds and more kids about to turn 6.

I can only speak for myself, but I was talking about public school...I know private school is very different on this front.

Ok. I haven't read a single legitimate complaint here about how any child was truly affected by another kid being a few months older. So far its parents don't like other parents bragging. And not getting enough play time as a starter in basketball for a kid who never had any basketball promise anyway. What am I missing? Anything else?

Then you either haven't been reading or you've just decided to define "legitimate" as only posts you agree with. A number of posters have talked about having kids who have been bullied or teased, either by redshirted kids or in general for being young, even though they were on time for the class (having a significant number of older kids in a K class is going to make the younger kids seem younger).

Please bump those because I haven't seen any.

Do you think there should be grades at all? Should I be able to send my child to school at 2 if I think they're ready? Should I be able to hold them back 4 years because I want to travel first and can't be bothered? If you agree that there are some limits, then the question is what the limits should be. You may think there's no negative effect to sending a kid a few years early, but you obviously draw the line somewhere and are therefore making some kind of judgment that it matters if kids in a single class are about the same age.

In any case, having much older kids in a class can absolutely make it harder for the teacher to teach because it makes kids more dissimilar and it is easier to teach more similar kids. The teacher's job being harder makes it more likely that my kid's classroom experience won't be as good. There's also the bullying, boredom, sports domination, etc aspects. I don't begrudge parents who redshirted their kid because they and the school decided it was the appropriate decision in light of all facts (including the effects on the class s/he would go into) nor deny that it is an appropriate decision for some kids (and I have no trouble with a +/- 1 month judgment zone where we leave it entirely to parents). But given the number of parents I know who redshirted their boy so that he would have a competitive advantage particularly at sports (not actually so that they would be a superstar, but more for the social cache/confidence boosting reason), I absolutely do not trust that most parents are only doing this because their kid is legitimately behind in some way. There's a reason that non-school-based sports leagues use age cutoffs; it absolutely does matter and parents absolutely try to game the system. Why is it that for baseball we're like of course it's a problem have a kid play down even if they weren't great at baseball as a kid so started late... but in school it's super controversial to say that kids shouldn't typically redshirt?

NP I don't disagree that kids are at very different levels, but it has nothing to do with age. Kids should be separated into classrooms based on their ability IMO. And it's reevaluated yearly. Some kids enter K reading books and others don't even speak English, don't know their letters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get it op. My late-August birthday girl was called a baby and told she belonged in pre-k because she was still 5 in the late spring of her kindergarten year, by the 7 year olds in the class. Blatant red-shirting skews the dynamics.

I hate this. Redshirt a summer birthday if you feel they aren't ready, but kids with a birthday during the year should not be redshirted at parent discretion (it should be the school's call) and if you do hold a kid like this back, teachers should be proactive about shutting down this kind of teasing/bullying. It happened to my kid too (early August birthday and a full 2 months before the cutoff of September 30th) and it was really frustrating because the attitude of some parents seems to be "if you don't like it, you should redshirt." But that's nuts. You should be able to send a child who is prepared on time and not assume they will get harassed by redshirted kids for being too small.

I have a late summer birthday who was sent ahead, despite being a month younger than the cutoff date. She passed the readiness interview and the school took her early (private school). She is small for her age and was called a baby in K by some of the kids. Luckily the other kids’ parents and the teachers shut that down pretty quickly. Everyone thought she was ready, despite being very young and small for her age. Fast forward a few years - she’s a straight A student and socially well adjusted. I debated if I made the right call not to hold her with her age. Turns out the other kids come from good families that don’t put up with child antics and neither do the teachers. I am grateful for this. Redshirting should be a decision for the school and parents; it is very unique to the children involved. (I send her to a competitive private that normally recommends to redshirt - but not always).

Agree it should be a joint decision by the school and the parents. I think it should be at a parents discretion for a child near the cut off (within 2 months or so) but otherwise it should be a consultation with the school.

One element at play is that unless you have older children, I think parents don't always understand what it means to be ready for kindergarten. It can be hard to look at your 4 year old or just-turned 5 year old and imagine them in elementary school in a few months. But the vast majority of 5 yr olds are totally fine starting kindergarten on time. It's also common for children to have stuff they need to work on, and that doesn't make them unready. I had a kid who started reading on her own the summer before K, but who was very young for her grade and maybe even a little socially immature for her age. To be perfectly honest, there was no "right" answer for her, because sending on time made sense academically but was more of a challenge socially, but holding her back might have eased some of the social stuff but potentially also been a mess because her preschool classroom definitely couldn't support where she was at academically. I think situations like this are more common than we are willing to admit.

Which is why I think it's important that these decisions be made with the school in all cases except kids truly on the cusp in terms of birthday. And yes, I guess that means I don't totally trust other parents to do what's right. I don't! People make mistakes all the time with parenting and since this is a decision that will impact the overall make up of grade cohorts, I don't think it should just be at the parents discretion. There was a PP flipping out about this and the idea that you might need an assessment or consultation with the school in order to be allowed to redshirt, and I just don't understand why that would be an issue. I think it would be clarifying. My kids have taken all kind of placement screenings in life -- I find it useful because usually the school or activity is much better positioned to make sure my kid is in the appropriate level in terms of both readiness and challenge.

ITA.

I'm skeptical of anyone who balks at the idea of involving the ES in the decision to redshirt. If you are doing it because you are concerned about child's readiness -- not to confer a competitive advantage by being older and bigger -- then you should welcome school's input. I agree that so many parents really don't know what Kindergarten readiness looks like -- Kindergarten is in very large part for working on SEL.

What you're missing is that with private schools it's often at the suggestion of the school. You all need to make up your minds about who you're mad at here. The schools love kids ready to hit the ground running and learning even if that means fewer 4 year olds and more kids about to turn 6.

I can only speak for myself, but I was talking about public school...I know private school is very different on this front.

Ok. I haven't read a single legitimate complaint here about how any child was truly affected by another kid being a few months older. So far its parents don't like other parents bragging. And not getting enough play time as a starter in basketball for a kid who never had any basketball promise anyway. What am I missing? Anything else?

Then you either haven't been reading or you've just decided to define "legitimate" as only posts you agree with. A number of posters have talked about having kids who have been bullied or teased, either by redshirted kids or in general for being young, even though they were on time for the class (having a significant number of older kids in a K class is going to make the younger kids seem younger).

Sorry, but I don’t consider the irrational fear and low likelihood your child *might get teased for being young as a legitimate complaint for when others feel their child should start kindergarten. That is a case by case problem. Your kid could potentially be teased about anything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get it op. My late-August birthday girl was called a baby and told she belonged in pre-k because she was still 5 in the late spring of her kindergarten year, by the 7 year olds in the class. Blatant red-shirting skews the dynamics.

I hate this. Redshirt a summer birthday if you feel they aren't ready, but kids with a birthday during the year should not be redshirted at parent discretion (it should be the school's call) and if you do hold a kid like this back, teachers should be proactive about shutting down this kind of teasing/bullying. It happened to my kid too (early August birthday and a full 2 months before the cutoff of September 30th) and it was really frustrating because the attitude of some parents seems to be "if you don't like it, you should redshirt." But that's nuts. You should be able to send a child who is prepared on time and not assume they will get harassed by redshirted kids for being too small.

I have a late summer birthday who was sent ahead, despite being a month younger than the cutoff date. She passed the readiness interview and the school took her early (private school). She is small for her age and was called a baby in K by some of the kids. Luckily the other kids’ parents and the teachers shut that down pretty quickly. Everyone thought she was ready, despite being very young and small for her age. Fast forward a few years - she’s a straight A student and socially well adjusted. I debated if I made the right call not to hold her with her age. Turns out the other kids come from good families that don’t put up with child antics and neither do the teachers. I am grateful for this. Redshirting should be a decision for the school and parents; it is very unique to the children involved. (I send her to a competitive private that normally recommends to redshirt - but not always).

Agree it should be a joint decision by the school and the parents. I think it should be at a parents discretion for a child near the cut off (within 2 months or so) but otherwise it should be a consultation with the school.

One element at play is that unless you have older children, I think parents don't always understand what it means to be ready for kindergarten. It can be hard to look at your 4 year old or just-turned 5 year old and imagine them in elementary school in a few months. But the vast majority of 5 yr olds are totally fine starting kindergarten on time. It's also common for children to have stuff they need to work on, and that doesn't make them unready. I had a kid who started reading on her own the summer before K, but who was very young for her grade and maybe even a little socially immature for her age. To be perfectly honest, there was no "right" answer for her, because sending on time made sense academically but was more of a challenge socially, but holding her back might have eased some of the social stuff but potentially also been a mess because her preschool classroom definitely couldn't support where she was at academically. I think situations like this are more common than we are willing to admit.

Which is why I think it's important that these decisions be made with the school in all cases except kids truly on the cusp in terms of birthday. And yes, I guess that means I don't totally trust other parents to do what's right. I don't! People make mistakes all the time with parenting and since this is a decision that will impact the overall make up of grade cohorts, I don't think it should just be at the parents discretion. There was a PP flipping out about this and the idea that you might need an assessment or consultation with the school in order to be allowed to redshirt, and I just don't understand why that would be an issue. I think it would be clarifying. My kids have taken all kind of placement screenings in life -- I find it useful because usually the school or activity is much better positioned to make sure my kid is in the appropriate level in terms of both readiness and challenge.

ITA.

I'm skeptical of anyone who balks at the idea of involving the ES in the decision to redshirt. If you are doing it because you are concerned about child's readiness -- not to confer a competitive advantage by being older and bigger -- then you should welcome school's input. I agree that so many parents really don't know what Kindergarten readiness looks like -- Kindergarten is in very large part for working on SEL.

What you're missing is that with private schools it's often at the suggestion of the school. You all need to make up your minds about who you're mad at here. The schools love kids ready to hit the ground running and learning even if that means fewer 4 year olds and more kids about to turn 6.

I can only speak for myself, but I was talking about public school...I know private school is very different on this front.

Ok. I haven't read a single legitimate complaint here about how any child was truly affected by another kid being a few months older. So far its parents don't like other parents bragging. And not getting enough play time as a starter in basketball for a kid who never had any basketball promise anyway. What am I missing? Anything else?

Then you either haven't been reading or you've just decided to define "legitimate" as only posts you agree with. A number of posters have talked about having kids who have been bullied or teased, either by redshirted kids or in general for being young, even though they were on time for the class (having a significant number of older kids in a K class is going to make the younger kids seem younger).

Sorry, but I don’t consider the irrational fear and low likelihood your child *might get teased for being young as a legitimate complaint for when others feel their child should start kindergarten. That is a case by case problem. Your kid could potentially be teased about anything.

No people have talked about this happening in the past, not hypothetical. And it's not just teasing, it's also shifting the baseline for what is normal or expected in school so that kids who are on time but at the younger end of the cohort come to be seen as "immature" when they are actually developmentally normal. And yes, while teasing is inevitable, it takes on a different flavor when there is a larger age gap between the kids. Being teased by a same age peer is different than being teased by a child 15-18 months older. And in any case, the concern over redshirting is not that it happens at all as that it may be happening too much at this point (it is much more common than it was 20 years ago), so we're actually talking about the impact of being in a classroom where a quarter or half of the kids are redshirted.

But whatever, I can tell from the tone of your posts that you don't care and I could come to you with a 10 year study on the impacts of redshirting on grade cohorts that showed a significant impact on on-time kids and you'd still tell me "it's a personal decision, MYOB, the age of the kids in class doesn't matter."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get it op. My late-August birthday girl was called a baby and told she belonged in pre-k because she was still 5 in the late spring of her kindergarten year, by the 7 year olds in the class. Blatant red-shirting skews the dynamics.

I hate this. Redshirt a summer birthday if you feel they aren't ready, but kids with a birthday during the year should not be redshirted at parent discretion (it should be the school's call) and if you do hold a kid like this back, teachers should be proactive about shutting down this kind of teasing/bullying. It happened to my kid too (early August birthday and a full 2 months before the cutoff of September 30th) and it was really frustrating because the attitude of some parents seems to be "if you don't like it, you should redshirt." But that's nuts. You should be able to send a child who is prepared on time and not assume they will get harassed by redshirted kids for being too small.

I have a late summer birthday who was sent ahead, despite being a month younger than the cutoff date. She passed the readiness interview and the school took her early (private school). She is small for her age and was called a baby in K by some of the kids. Luckily the other kids’ parents and the teachers shut that down pretty quickly. Everyone thought she was ready, despite being very young and small for her age. Fast forward a few years - she’s a straight A student and socially well adjusted. I debated if I made the right call not to hold her with her age. Turns out the other kids come from good families that don’t put up with child antics and neither do the teachers. I am grateful for this. Redshirting should be a decision for the school and parents; it is very unique to the children involved. (I send her to a competitive private that normally recommends to redshirt - but not always).

Agree it should be a joint decision by the school and the parents. I think it should be at a parents discretion for a child near the cut off (within 2 months or so) but otherwise it should be a consultation with the school.

One element at play is that unless you have older children, I think parents don't always understand what it means to be ready for kindergarten. It can be hard to look at your 4 year old or just-turned 5 year old and imagine them in elementary school in a few months. But the vast majority of 5 yr olds are totally fine starting kindergarten on time. It's also common for children to have stuff they need to work on, and that doesn't make them unready. I had a kid who started reading on her own the summer before K, but who was very young for her grade and maybe even a little socially immature for her age. To be perfectly honest, there was no "right" answer for her, because sending on time made sense academically but was more of a challenge socially, but holding her back might have eased some of the social stuff but potentially also been a mess because her preschool classroom definitely couldn't support where she was at academically. I think situations like this are more common than we are willing to admit.

Which is why I think it's important that these decisions be made with the school in all cases except kids truly on the cusp in terms of birthday. And yes, I guess that means I don't totally trust other parents to do what's right. I don't! People make mistakes all the time with parenting and since this is a decision that will impact the overall make up of grade cohorts, I don't think it should just be at the parents discretion. There was a PP flipping out about this and the idea that you might need an assessment or consultation with the school in order to be allowed to redshirt, and I just don't understand why that would be an issue. I think it would be clarifying. My kids have taken all kind of placement screenings in life -- I find it useful because usually the school or activity is much better positioned to make sure my kid is in the appropriate level in terms of both readiness and challenge.

ITA.

I'm skeptical of anyone who balks at the idea of involving the ES in the decision to redshirt. If you are doing it because you are concerned about child's readiness -- not to confer a competitive advantage by being older and bigger -- then you should welcome school's input. I agree that so many parents really don't know what Kindergarten readiness looks like -- Kindergarten is in very large part for working on SEL.

What you're missing is that with private schools it's often at the suggestion of the school. You all need to make up your minds about who you're mad at here. The schools love kids ready to hit the ground running and learning even if that means fewer 4 year olds and more kids about to turn 6.

I can only speak for myself, but I was talking about public school...I know private school is very different on this front.

Ok. I haven't read a single legitimate complaint here about how any child was truly affected by another kid being a few months older. So far its parents don't like other parents bragging. And not getting enough play time as a starter in basketball for a kid who never had any basketball promise anyway. What am I missing? Anything else?

Then you either haven't been reading or you've just decided to define "legitimate" as only posts you agree with. A number of posters have talked about having kids who have been bullied or teased, either by redshirted kids or in general for being young, even though they were on time for the class (having a significant number of older kids in a K class is going to make the younger kids seem younger).

Sorry, but I don’t consider the irrational fear and low likelihood your child *might get teased for being young as a legitimate complaint for when others feel their child should start kindergarten. That is a case by case problem. Your kid could potentially be teased about anything.

It's the people redshirting for no discernible reason who are responding to irrational fears of low likelihood events. It's so funny to me that:

Concerns from a redshirting parent about their kid being marginalized or struggling due to being a few months younger than peers: Valid

Concerns of a non-redshirting parent about their kid being marginalized or struggling due to being a year-plus younger than peers: Invalid

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get it op. My late-August birthday girl was called a baby and told she belonged in pre-k because she was still 5 in the late spring of her kindergarten year, by the 7 year olds in the class. Blatant red-shirting skews the dynamics.

I hate this. Redshirt a summer birthday if you feel they aren't ready, but kids with a birthday during the year should not be redshirted at parent discretion (it should be the school's call) and if you do hold a kid like this back, teachers should be proactive about shutting down this kind of teasing/bullying. It happened to my kid too (early August birthday and a full 2 months before the cutoff of September 30th) and it was really frustrating because the attitude of some parents seems to be "if you don't like it, you should redshirt." But that's nuts. You should be able to send a child who is prepared on time and not assume they will get harassed by redshirted kids for being too small.

I have a late summer birthday who was sent ahead, despite being a month younger than the cutoff date. She passed the readiness interview and the school took her early (private school). She is small for her age and was called a baby in K by some of the kids. Luckily the other kids’ parents and the teachers shut that down pretty quickly. Everyone thought she was ready, despite being very young and small for her age. Fast forward a few years - she’s a straight A student and socially well adjusted. I debated if I made the right call not to hold her with her age. Turns out the other kids come from good families that don’t put up with child antics and neither do the teachers. I am grateful for this. Redshirting should be a decision for the school and parents; it is very unique to the children involved. (I send her to a competitive private that normally recommends to redshirt - but not always).

Agree it should be a joint decision by the school and the parents. I think it should be at a parents discretion for a child near the cut off (within 2 months or so) but otherwise it should be a consultation with the school.

One element at play is that unless you have older children, I think parents don't always understand what it means to be ready for kindergarten. It can be hard to look at your 4 year old or just-turned 5 year old and imagine them in elementary school in a few months. But the vast majority of 5 yr olds are totally fine starting kindergarten on time. It's also common for children to have stuff they need to work on, and that doesn't make them unready. I had a kid who started reading on her own the summer before K, but who was very young for her grade and maybe even a little socially immature for her age. To be perfectly honest, there was no "right" answer for her, because sending on time made sense academically but was more of a challenge socially, but holding her back might have eased some of the social stuff but potentially also been a mess because her preschool classroom definitely couldn't support where she was at academically. I think situations like this are more common than we are willing to admit.

Which is why I think it's important that these decisions be made with the school in all cases except kids truly on the cusp in terms of birthday. And yes, I guess that means I don't totally trust other parents to do what's right. I don't! People make mistakes all the time with parenting and since this is a decision that will impact the overall make up of grade cohorts, I don't think it should just be at the parents discretion. There was a PP flipping out about this and the idea that you might need an assessment or consultation with the school in order to be allowed to redshirt, and I just don't understand why that would be an issue. I think it would be clarifying. My kids have taken all kind of placement screenings in life -- I find it useful because usually the school or activity is much better positioned to make sure my kid is in the appropriate level in terms of both readiness and challenge.

ITA.

I'm skeptical of anyone who balks at the idea of involving the ES in the decision to redshirt. If you are doing it because you are concerned about child's readiness -- not to confer a competitive advantage by being older and bigger -- then you should welcome school's input. I agree that so many parents really don't know what Kindergarten readiness looks like -- Kindergarten is in very large part for working on SEL.

What you're missing is that with private schools it's often at the suggestion of the school. You all need to make up your minds about who you're mad at here. The schools love kids ready to hit the ground running and learning even if that means fewer 4 year olds and more kids about to turn 6.

I can only speak for myself, but I was talking about public school...I know private school is very different on this front.

Ok. I haven't read a single legitimate complaint here about how any child was truly affected by another kid being a few months older. So far its parents don't like other parents bragging. And not getting enough play time as a starter in basketball for a kid who never had any basketball promise anyway. What am I missing? Anything else?

Then you either haven't been reading or you've just decided to define "legitimate" as only posts you agree with. A number of posters have talked about having kids who have been bullied or teased, either by redshirted kids or in general for being young, even though they were on time for the class (having a significant number of older kids in a K class is going to make the younger kids seem younger).

Please bump those because I haven't seen any.

Do you think there should be grades at all? Should I be able to send my child to school at 2 if I think they're ready? Should I be able to hold them back 4 years because I want to travel first and can't be bothered? If you agree that there are some limits, then the question is what the limits should be. You may think there's no negative effect to sending a kid a few years early, but you obviously draw the line somewhere and are therefore making some kind of judgment that it matters if kids in a single class are about the same age.

In any case, having much older kids in a class can absolutely make it harder for the teacher to teach because it makes kids more dissimilar and it is easier to teach more similar kids. The teacher's job being harder makes it more likely that my kid's classroom experience won't be as good. There's also the bullying, boredom, sports domination, etc aspects. I don't begrudge parents who redshirted their kid because they and the school decided it was the appropriate decision in light of all facts (including the effects on the class s/he would go into) nor deny that it is an appropriate decision for some kids (and I have no trouble with a +/- 1 month judgment zone where we leave it entirely to parents). But given the number of parents I know who redshirted their boy so that he would have a competitive advantage particularly at sports (not actually so that they would be a superstar, but more for the social cache/confidence boosting reason), I absolutely do not trust that most parents are only doing this because their kid is legitimately behind in some way. There's a reason that non-school-based sports leagues use age cutoffs; it absolutely does matter and parents absolutely try to game the system. Why is it that for baseball we're like of course it's a problem have a kid play down even if they weren't great at baseball as a kid so started late... but in school it's super controversial to say that kids shouldn't typically redshirt?

All of this. No one is saying that redshirting should be banned or that there aren't legitimate reasons to do it, but of course there should be limits and some of us feel the trend towards more redshirting, including redshirting of kids born in the spring, is really widening the window on what is acceptable to a degree that ultimately does a disservice to other children and the classroom environment as a whole.

I find the argument that I'm supposed to just trust other parents to do the right thing so weird. While I know plenty of parents who I feel reasonably confident wouldn't abuse redshirting in order to get their kid an advantage, I also know plenty who would. Not everyone is interested in "playing socially" and lots of people are just out for their own or their kid's interest and could not care at all who else it impacts. Which is why I start giving side eye when I see it normalized for a not-insignificant number of March or April birthdays to be redshirted. I'm sorry, but when a cohort has 10 spring birthdays and 5 of them are redshirted kids, we are not longer in the realm of people redshirting out of necessity. In no world are half of these kids unready for kindergarten.

I do think one thing that happens a lot is that one family will redshirt for totally legitimate reasons that might not be obvious to others, and this freaks out other competitive parents who then redshirt out of fear of being left behind. Literally for no other reason than because they heard some other kid with a May birthday is delaying kindergarten. Parents can be huge lemmings. Which is why having stricter cut offs and requiring some kind of justification that is approved by the school makes sense.

So why don't schools do this (stricter cut offs)? It seems as if they may have a better sense about what's going on than all the hand wringing over hypothetical and baseless fears other parents have. Where is the data to back up your concerns as legitimate? If you don't trust your school, or the teachers who might get confused over what is appropriate kindergarten behavior, you also don't trust the other parents who might be out to screw you over, I'm not sure what to tell you other than you sound extremely paranoid and anxious. It's not the other parents job to manage your issues around this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get it op. My late-August birthday girl was called a baby and told she belonged in pre-k because she was still 5 in the late spring of her kindergarten year, by the 7 year olds in the class. Blatant red-shirting skews the dynamics.

I hate this. Redshirt a summer birthday if you feel they aren't ready, but kids with a birthday during the year should not be redshirted at parent discretion (it should be the school's call) and if you do hold a kid like this back, teachers should be proactive about shutting down this kind of teasing/bullying. It happened to my kid too (early August birthday and a full 2 months before the cutoff of September 30th) and it was really frustrating because the attitude of some parents seems to be "if you don't like it, you should redshirt." But that's nuts. You should be able to send a child who is prepared on time and not assume they will get harassed by redshirted kids for being too small.

I have a late summer birthday who was sent ahead, despite being a month younger than the cutoff date. She passed the readiness interview and the school took her early (private school). She is small for her age and was called a baby in K by some of the kids. Luckily the other kids’ parents and the teachers shut that down pretty quickly. Everyone thought she was ready, despite being very young and small for her age. Fast forward a few years - she’s a straight A student and socially well adjusted. I debated if I made the right call not to hold her with her age. Turns out the other kids come from good families that don’t put up with child antics and neither do the teachers. I am grateful for this. Redshirting should be a decision for the school and parents; it is very unique to the children involved. (I send her to a competitive private that normally recommends to redshirt - but not always).

Agree it should be a joint decision by the school and the parents. I think it should be at a parents discretion for a child near the cut off (within 2 months or so) but otherwise it should be a consultation with the school.

One element at play is that unless you have older children, I think parents don't always understand what it means to be ready for kindergarten. It can be hard to look at your 4 year old or just-turned 5 year old and imagine them in elementary school in a few months. But the vast majority of 5 yr olds are totally fine starting kindergarten on time. It's also common for children to have stuff they need to work on, and that doesn't make them unready. I had a kid who started reading on her own the summer before K, but who was very young for her grade and maybe even a little socially immature for her age. To be perfectly honest, there was no "right" answer for her, because sending on time made sense academically but was more of a challenge socially, but holding her back might have eased some of the social stuff but potentially also been a mess because her preschool classroom definitely couldn't support where she was at academically. I think situations like this are more common than we are willing to admit.

Which is why I think it's important that these decisions be made with the school in all cases except kids truly on the cusp in terms of birthday. And yes, I guess that means I don't totally trust other parents to do what's right. I don't! People make mistakes all the time with parenting and since this is a decision that will impact the overall make up of grade cohorts, I don't think it should just be at the parents discretion. There was a PP flipping out about this and the idea that you might need an assessment or consultation with the school in order to be allowed to redshirt, and I just don't understand why that would be an issue. I think it would be clarifying. My kids have taken all kind of placement screenings in life -- I find it useful because usually the school or activity is much better positioned to make sure my kid is in the appropriate level in terms of both readiness and challenge.

ITA.

I'm skeptical of anyone who balks at the idea of involving the ES in the decision to redshirt. If you are doing it because you are concerned about child's readiness -- not to confer a competitive advantage by being older and bigger -- then you should welcome school's input. I agree that so many parents really don't know what Kindergarten readiness looks like -- Kindergarten is in very large part for working on SEL.

What you're missing is that with private schools it's often at the suggestion of the school. You all need to make up your minds about who you're mad at here. The schools love kids ready to hit the ground running and learning even if that means fewer 4 year olds and more kids about to turn 6.

I can only speak for myself, but I was talking about public school...I know private school is very different on this front.

Ok. I haven't read a single legitimate complaint here about how any child was truly affected by another kid being a few months older. So far its parents don't like other parents bragging. And not getting enough play time as a starter in basketball for a kid who never had any basketball promise anyway. What am I missing? Anything else?

Then you either haven't been reading or you've just decided to define "legitimate" as only posts you agree with. A number of posters have talked about having kids who have been bullied or teased, either by redshirted kids or in general for being young, even though they were on time for the class (having a significant number of older kids in a K class is going to make the younger kids seem younger).

Please bump those because I haven't seen any.

Do you think there should be grades at all? Should I be able to send my child to school at 2 if I think they're ready? Should I be able to hold them back 4 years because I want to travel first and can't be bothered? If you agree that there are some limits, then the question is what the limits should be. You may think there's no negative effect to sending a kid a few years early, but you obviously draw the line somewhere and are therefore making some kind of judgment that it matters if kids in a single class are about the same age.

In any case, having much older kids in a class can absolutely make it harder for the teacher to teach because it makes kids more dissimilar and it is easier to teach more similar kids. The teacher's job being harder makes it more likely that my kid's classroom experience won't be as good. There's also the bullying, boredom, sports domination, etc aspects. I don't begrudge parents who redshirted their kid because they and the school decided it was the appropriate decision in light of all facts (including the effects on the class s/he would go into) nor deny that it is an appropriate decision for some kids (and I have no trouble with a +/- 1 month judgment zone where we leave it entirely to parents). But given the number of parents I know who redshirted their boy so that he would have a competitive advantage particularly at sports (not actually so that they would be a superstar, but more for the social cache/confidence boosting reason), I absolutely do not trust that most parents are only doing this because their kid is legitimately behind in some way. There's a reason that non-school-based sports leagues use age cutoffs; it absolutely does matter and parents absolutely try to game the system. Why is it that for baseball we're like of course it's a problem have a kid play down even if they weren't great at baseball as a kid so started late... but in school it's super controversial to say that kids shouldn't typically redshirt?

NP I don't disagree that kids are at very different levels, but it has nothing to do with age. Kids should be separated into classrooms based on their ability IMO. And it's reevaluated yearly. Some kids enter K reading books and others don't even speak English, don't know their letters.

The problem with this is that readiness for kindergarten (and other grades) is only partly about academics. It's also social and emotional.

What do you do with the kid who is reading 1-2 grade levels ahead and totally comfortable with addition and subtraction at age 5, but who struggles with emotional regulation and is small even within their age cohort? Or the kid who is very mature for their age but struggling with sounding decoding even at age 7? These situations are common. That's why using age cohorts makes sense, because while of course there is a distribution of abilities for each of these metrics, generally along a bell curve, if you cluster kids along age cutoffs, you can find a mean and teach to it. Whether you're teaching phonics or how to handle feelings.

The idea that you can use redshirting to create classes of kids who are all at the exact same level academically, socially, and emotionally? Impossible. Private schools come closest to this and they do it through a combination of redshirting, counseling out students who deviate too far from the mean, and limiting admissions to students who fit their mold AND who generally have relatively high-SES parents (which means you filter out a lot of kids with delays and behavioral issues).

But public schools can't do that. And redshirting/advancing can help with kids on the far ends of the bell curve, but once kids closer to the mean are redshirting, you wind up really messing with the mean in ways that do in fact have negative consequences for other students. Especially true once honors/advanced coursework begins, as aggressive redshirting in a school can shift the baseline for admission to these programs, boxing out on-time kids who would normally be considered advanced but can't compete with kids in their grade who are 18 months older.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get it op. My late-August birthday girl was called a baby and told she belonged in pre-k because she was still 5 in the late spring of her kindergarten year, by the 7 year olds in the class. Blatant red-shirting skews the dynamics.

I hate this. Redshirt a summer birthday if you feel they aren't ready, but kids with a birthday during the year should not be redshirted at parent discretion (it should be the school's call) and if you do hold a kid like this back, teachers should be proactive about shutting down this kind of teasing/bullying. It happened to my kid too (early August birthday and a full 2 months before the cutoff of September 30th) and it was really frustrating because the attitude of some parents seems to be "if you don't like it, you should redshirt." But that's nuts. You should be able to send a child who is prepared on time and not assume they will get harassed by redshirted kids for being too small.

I have a late summer birthday who was sent ahead, despite being a month younger than the cutoff date. She passed the readiness interview and the school took her early (private school). She is small for her age and was called a baby in K by some of the kids. Luckily the other kids’ parents and the teachers shut that down pretty quickly. Everyone thought she was ready, despite being very young and small for her age. Fast forward a few years - she’s a straight A student and socially well adjusted. I debated if I made the right call not to hold her with her age. Turns out the other kids come from good families that don’t put up with child antics and neither do the teachers. I am grateful for this. Redshirting should be a decision for the school and parents; it is very unique to the children involved. (I send her to a competitive private that normally recommends to redshirt - but not always).

Agree it should be a joint decision by the school and the parents. I think it should be at a parents discretion for a child near the cut off (within 2 months or so) but otherwise it should be a consultation with the school.

One element at play is that unless you have older children, I think parents don't always understand what it means to be ready for kindergarten. It can be hard to look at your 4 year old or just-turned 5 year old and imagine them in elementary school in a few months. But the vast majority of 5 yr olds are totally fine starting kindergarten on time. It's also common for children to have stuff they need to work on, and that doesn't make them unready. I had a kid who started reading on her own the summer before K, but who was very young for her grade and maybe even a little socially immature for her age. To be perfectly honest, there was no "right" answer for her, because sending on time made sense academically but was more of a challenge socially, but holding her back might have eased some of the social stuff but potentially also been a mess because her preschool classroom definitely couldn't support where she was at academically. I think situations like this are more common than we are willing to admit.

Which is why I think it's important that these decisions be made with the school in all cases except kids truly on the cusp in terms of birthday. And yes, I guess that means I don't totally trust other parents to do what's right. I don't! People make mistakes all the time with parenting and since this is a decision that will impact the overall make up of grade cohorts, I don't think it should just be at the parents discretion. There was a PP flipping out about this and the idea that you might need an assessment or consultation with the school in order to be allowed to redshirt, and I just don't understand why that would be an issue. I think it would be clarifying. My kids have taken all kind of placement screenings in life -- I find it useful because usually the school or activity is much better positioned to make sure my kid is in the appropriate level in terms of both readiness and challenge.

ITA.

I'm skeptical of anyone who balks at the idea of involving the ES in the decision to redshirt. If you are doing it because you are concerned about child's readiness -- not to confer a competitive advantage by being older and bigger -- then you should welcome school's input. I agree that so many parents really don't know what Kindergarten readiness looks like -- Kindergarten is in very large part for working on SEL.

What you're missing is that with private schools it's often at the suggestion of the school. You all need to make up your minds about who you're mad at here. The schools love kids ready to hit the ground running and learning even if that means fewer 4 year olds and more kids about to turn 6.

I can only speak for myself, but I was talking about public school...I know private school is very different on this front.

Ok. I haven't read a single legitimate complaint here about how any child was truly affected by another kid being a few months older. So far its parents don't like other parents bragging. And not getting enough play time as a starter in basketball for a kid who never had any basketball promise anyway. What am I missing? Anything else?

Then you either haven't been reading or you've just decided to define "legitimate" as only posts you agree with. A number of posters have talked about having kids who have been bullied or teased, either by redshirted kids or in general for being young, even though they were on time for the class (having a significant number of older kids in a K class is going to make the younger kids seem younger).

Sorry, but I don’t consider the irrational fear and low likelihood your child *might get teased for being young as a legitimate complaint for when others feel their child should start kindergarten. That is a case by case problem. Your kid could potentially be teased about anything.

It's the people redshirting for no discernible reason who are responding to irrational fears of low likelihood events. It's so funny to me that:

Concerns from a redshirting parent about their kid being marginalized or struggling due to being a few months younger than peers: Valid

Concerns of a non-redshirting parent about their kid being marginalized or struggling due to being a year-plus younger than peers: Invalid

Why does their reason need to be discernible to YOU? It is clear you feel someone else’s child is gaining an advantage over your child and that is the only gripe. They are all learning their alphabet in class and counting colored bears together. The teacher isn’t secretly teaching the 6 yr olds the Pythagorean theorem while your child is left to sort beans

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get it op. My late-August birthday girl was called a baby and told she belonged in pre-k because she was still 5 in the late spring of her kindergarten year, by the 7 year olds in the class. Blatant red-shirting skews the dynamics.

I hate this. Redshirt a summer birthday if you feel they aren't ready, but kids with a birthday during the year should not be redshirted at parent discretion (it should be the school's call) and if you do hold a kid like this back, teachers should be proactive about shutting down this kind of teasing/bullying. It happened to my kid too (early August birthday and a full 2 months before the cutoff of September 30th) and it was really frustrating because the attitude of some parents seems to be "if you don't like it, you should redshirt." But that's nuts. You should be able to send a child who is prepared on time and not assume they will get harassed by redshirted kids for being too small.

I have a late summer birthday who was sent ahead, despite being a month younger than the cutoff date. She passed the readiness interview and the school took her early (private school). She is small for her age and was called a baby in K by some of the kids. Luckily the other kids’ parents and the teachers shut that down pretty quickly. Everyone thought she was ready, despite being very young and small for her age. Fast forward a few years - she’s a straight A student and socially well adjusted. I debated if I made the right call not to hold her with her age. Turns out the other kids come from good families that don’t put up with child antics and neither do the teachers. I am grateful for this. Redshirting should be a decision for the school and parents; it is very unique to the children involved. (I send her to a competitive private that normally recommends to redshirt - but not always).

Agree it should be a joint decision by the school and the parents. I think it should be at a parents discretion for a child near the cut off (within 2 months or so) but otherwise it should be a consultation with the school.

One element at play is that unless you have older children, I think parents don't always understand what it means to be ready for kindergarten. It can be hard to look at your 4 year old or just-turned 5 year old and imagine them in elementary school in a few months. But the vast majority of 5 yr olds are totally fine starting kindergarten on time. It's also common for children to have stuff they need to work on, and that doesn't make them unready. I had a kid who started reading on her own the summer before K, but who was very young for her grade and maybe even a little socially immature for her age. To be perfectly honest, there was no "right" answer for her, because sending on time made sense academically but was more of a challenge socially, but holding her back might have eased some of the social stuff but potentially also been a mess because her preschool classroom definitely couldn't support where she was at academically. I think situations like this are more common than we are willing to admit.

Which is why I think it's important that these decisions be made with the school in all cases except kids truly on the cusp in terms of birthday. And yes, I guess that means I don't totally trust other parents to do what's right. I don't! People make mistakes all the time with parenting and since this is a decision that will impact the overall make up of grade cohorts, I don't think it should just be at the parents discretion. There was a PP flipping out about this and the idea that you might need an assessment or consultation with the school in order to be allowed to redshirt, and I just don't understand why that would be an issue. I think it would be clarifying. My kids have taken all kind of placement screenings in life -- I find it useful because usually the school or activity is much better positioned to make sure my kid is in the appropriate level in terms of both readiness and challenge.

ITA.

I'm skeptical of anyone who balks at the idea of involving the ES in the decision to redshirt. If you are doing it because you are concerned about child's readiness -- not to confer a competitive advantage by being older and bigger -- then you should welcome school's input. I agree that so many parents really don't know what Kindergarten readiness looks like -- Kindergarten is in very large part for working on SEL.

What you're missing is that with private schools it's often at the suggestion of the school. You all need to make up your minds about who you're mad at here. The schools love kids ready to hit the ground running and learning even if that means fewer 4 year olds and more kids about to turn 6.

I can only speak for myself, but I was talking about public school...I know private school is very different on this front.

Ok. I haven't read a single legitimate complaint here about how any child was truly affected by another kid being a few months older. So far its parents don't like other parents bragging. And not getting enough play time as a starter in basketball for a kid who never had any basketball promise anyway. What am I missing? Anything else?

Then you either haven't been reading or you've just decided to define "legitimate" as only posts you agree with. A number of posters have talked about having kids who have been bullied or teased, either by redshirted kids or in general for being young, even though they were on time for the class (having a significant number of older kids in a K class is going to make the younger kids seem younger).

Please bump those because I haven't seen any.

Do you think there should be grades at all? Should I be able to send my child to school at 2 if I think they're ready? Should I be able to hold them back 4 years because I want to travel first and can't be bothered? If you agree that there are some limits, then the question is what the limits should be. You may think there's no negative effect to sending a kid a few years early, but you obviously draw the line somewhere and are therefore making some kind of judgment that it matters if kids in a single class are about the same age.

In any case, having much older kids in a class can absolutely make it harder for the teacher to teach because it makes kids more dissimilar and it is easier to teach more similar kids. The teacher's job being harder makes it more likely that my kid's classroom experience won't be as good. There's also the bullying, boredom, sports domination, etc aspects. I don't begrudge parents who redshirted their kid because they and the school decided it was the appropriate decision in light of all facts (including the effects on the class s/he would go into) nor deny that it is an appropriate decision for some kids (and I have no trouble with a +/- 1 month judgment zone where we leave it entirely to parents). But given the number of parents I know who redshirted their boy so that he would have a competitive advantage particularly at sports (not actually so that they would be a superstar, but more for the social cache/confidence boosting reason), I absolutely do not trust that most parents are only doing this because their kid is legitimately behind in some way. There's a reason that non-school-based sports leagues use age cutoffs; it absolutely does matter and parents absolutely try to game the system. Why is it that for baseball we're like of course it's a problem have a kid play down even if they weren't great at baseball as a kid so started late... but in school it's super controversial to say that kids shouldn't typically redshirt?

All of this. No one is saying that redshirting should be banned or that there aren't legitimate reasons to do it, but of course there should be limits and some of us feel the trend towards more redshirting, including redshirting of kids born in the spring, is really widening the window on what is acceptable to a degree that ultimately does a disservice to other children and the classroom environment as a whole.

I find the argument that I'm supposed to just trust other parents to do the right thing so weird. While I know plenty of parents who I feel reasonably confident wouldn't abuse redshirting in order to get their kid an advantage, I also know plenty who would. Not everyone is interested in "playing socially" and lots of people are just out for their own or their kid's interest and could not care at all who else it impacts. Which is why I start giving side eye when I see it normalized for a not-insignificant number of March or April birthdays to be redshirted. I'm sorry, but when a cohort has 10 spring birthdays and 5 of them are redshirted kids, we are not longer in the realm of people redshirting out of necessity. In no world are half of these kids unready for kindergarten.

I do think one thing that happens a lot is that one family will redshirt for totally legitimate reasons that might not be obvious to others, and this freaks out other competitive parents who then redshirt out of fear of being left behind. Literally for no other reason than because they heard some other kid with a May birthday is delaying kindergarten. Parents can be huge lemmings. Which is why having stricter cut offs and requiring some kind of justification that is approved by the school makes sense.

So why don't schools do this (stricter cut offs)? It seems as if they may have a better sense about what's going on than all the hand wringing over hypothetical and baseless fears other parents have. Where is the data to back up your concerns as legitimate? If you don't trust your school, or the teachers who might get confused over what is appropriate kindergarten behavior, you also don't trust the other parents who might be out to screw you over, I'm not sure what to tell you other than you sound extremely paranoid and anxious. It's not the other parents job to manage your issues around this.

Some schools are strict about cut-offs, and then you encounter parents trying to make an endrun around it. We're in DCPS and I've known a number of parents who have tried to finagle their way into redshirting, and generally failed because there was no compelling reason why their kids needed to be held back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get it op. My late-August birthday girl was called a baby and told she belonged in pre-k because she was still 5 in the late spring of her kindergarten year, by the 7 year olds in the class. Blatant red-shirting skews the dynamics.

I hate this. Redshirt a summer birthday if you feel they aren't ready, but kids with a birthday during the year should not be redshirted at parent discretion (it should be the school's call) and if you do hold a kid like this back, teachers should be proactive about shutting down this kind of teasing/bullying. It happened to my kid too (early August birthday and a full 2 months before the cutoff of September 30th) and it was really frustrating because the attitude of some parents seems to be "if you don't like it, you should redshirt." But that's nuts. You should be able to send a child who is prepared on time and not assume they will get harassed by redshirted kids for being too small.

I have a late summer birthday who was sent ahead, despite being a month younger than the cutoff date. She passed the readiness interview and the school took her early (private school). She is small for her age and was called a baby in K by some of the kids. Luckily the other kids’ parents and the teachers shut that down pretty quickly. Everyone thought she was ready, despite being very young and small for her age. Fast forward a few years - she’s a straight A student and socially well adjusted. I debated if I made the right call not to hold her with her age. Turns out the other kids come from good families that don’t put up with child antics and neither do the teachers. I am grateful for this. Redshirting should be a decision for the school and parents; it is very unique to the children involved. (I send her to a competitive private that normally recommends to redshirt - but not always).

Agree it should be a joint decision by the school and the parents. I think it should be at a parents discretion for a child near the cut off (within 2 months or so) but otherwise it should be a consultation with the school.

One element at play is that unless you have older children, I think parents don't always understand what it means to be ready for kindergarten. It can be hard to look at your 4 year old or just-turned 5 year old and imagine them in elementary school in a few months. But the vast majority of 5 yr olds are totally fine starting kindergarten on time. It's also common for children to have stuff they need to work on, and that doesn't make them unready. I had a kid who started reading on her own the summer before K, but who was very young for her grade and maybe even a little socially immature for her age. To be perfectly honest, there was no "right" answer for her, because sending on time made sense academically but was more of a challenge socially, but holding her back might have eased some of the social stuff but potentially also been a mess because her preschool classroom definitely couldn't support where she was at academically. I think situations like this are more common than we are willing to admit.

Which is why I think it's important that these decisions be made with the school in all cases except kids truly on the cusp in terms of birthday. And yes, I guess that means I don't totally trust other parents to do what's right. I don't! People make mistakes all the time with parenting and since this is a decision that will impact the overall make up of grade cohorts, I don't think it should just be at the parents discretion. There was a PP flipping out about this and the idea that you might need an assessment or consultation with the school in order to be allowed to redshirt, and I just don't understand why that would be an issue. I think it would be clarifying. My kids have taken all kind of placement screenings in life -- I find it useful because usually the school or activity is much better positioned to make sure my kid is in the appropriate level in terms of both readiness and challenge.

ITA.

I'm skeptical of anyone who balks at the idea of involving the ES in the decision to redshirt. If you are doing it because you are concerned about child's readiness -- not to confer a competitive advantage by being older and bigger -- then you should welcome school's input. I agree that so many parents really don't know what Kindergarten readiness looks like -- Kindergarten is in very large part for working on SEL.

What you're missing is that with private schools it's often at the suggestion of the school. You all need to make up your minds about who you're mad at here. The schools love kids ready to hit the ground running and learning even if that means fewer 4 year olds and more kids about to turn 6.

I can only speak for myself, but I was talking about public school...I know private school is very different on this front.

Ok. I haven't read a single legitimate complaint here about how any child was truly affected by another kid being a few months older. So far its parents don't like other parents bragging. And not getting enough play time as a starter in basketball for a kid who never had any basketball promise anyway. What am I missing? Anything else?

Then you either haven't been reading or you've just decided to define "legitimate" as only posts you agree with. A number of posters have talked about having kids who have been bullied or teased, either by redshirted kids or in general for being young, even though they were on time for the class (having a significant number of older kids in a K class is going to make the younger kids seem younger).

Sorry, but I don’t consider the irrational fear and low likelihood your child *might get teased for being young as a legitimate complaint for when others feel their child should start kindergarten. That is a case by case problem. Your kid could potentially be teased about anything.

It's the people redshirting for no discernible reason who are responding to irrational fears of low likelihood events. It's so funny to me that:

Concerns from a redshirting parent about their kid being marginalized or struggling due to being a few months younger than peers: Valid

Concerns of a non-redshirting parent about their kid being marginalized or struggling due to being a year-plus younger than peers: Invalid

Why does their reason need to be discernible to YOU? It is clear you feel someone else’s child is gaining an advantage over your child and that is the only gripe. They are all learning their alphabet in class and counting colored bears together. The teacher isn’t secretly teaching the 6 yr olds the Pythagorean theorem while your child is left to sort beans

It should be discernible to someone. Why are people worried about the idea of requiring school approval for redshirting decisions? Shouldn't there need to be a documented reason for this? If not, why have age cut offs at all?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get it op. My late-August birthday girl was called a baby and told she belonged in pre-k because she was still 5 in the late spring of her kindergarten year, by the 7 year olds in the class. Blatant red-shirting skews the dynamics.

I hate this. Redshirt a summer birthday if you feel they aren't ready, but kids with a birthday during the year should not be redshirted at parent discretion (it should be the school's call) and if you do hold a kid like this back, teachers should be proactive about shutting down this kind of teasing/bullying. It happened to my kid too (early August birthday and a full 2 months before the cutoff of September 30th) and it was really frustrating because the attitude of some parents seems to be "if you don't like it, you should redshirt." But that's nuts. You should be able to send a child who is prepared on time and not assume they will get harassed by redshirted kids for being too small.

I have a late summer birthday who was sent ahead, despite being a month younger than the cutoff date. She passed the readiness interview and the school took her early (private school). She is small for her age and was called a baby in K by some of the kids. Luckily the other kids’ parents and the teachers shut that down pretty quickly. Everyone thought she was ready, despite being very young and small for her age. Fast forward a few years - she’s a straight A student and socially well adjusted. I debated if I made the right call not to hold her with her age. Turns out the other kids come from good families that don’t put up with child antics and neither do the teachers. I am grateful for this. Redshirting should be a decision for the school and parents; it is very unique to the children involved. (I send her to a competitive private that normally recommends to redshirt - but not always).

Agree it should be a joint decision by the school and the parents. I think it should be at a parents discretion for a child near the cut off (within 2 months or so) but otherwise it should be a consultation with the school.

One element at play is that unless you have older children, I think parents don't always understand what it means to be ready for kindergarten. It can be hard to look at your 4 year old or just-turned 5 year old and imagine them in elementary school in a few months. But the vast majority of 5 yr olds are totally fine starting kindergarten on time. It's also common for children to have stuff they need to work on, and that doesn't make them unready. I had a kid who started reading on her own the summer before K, but who was very young for her grade and maybe even a little socially immature for her age. To be perfectly honest, there was no "right" answer for her, because sending on time made sense academically but was more of a challenge socially, but holding her back might have eased some of the social stuff but potentially also been a mess because her preschool classroom definitely couldn't support where she was at academically. I think situations like this are more common than we are willing to admit.

Which is why I think it's important that these decisions be made with the school in all cases except kids truly on the cusp in terms of birthday. And yes, I guess that means I don't totally trust other parents to do what's right. I don't! People make mistakes all the time with parenting and since this is a decision that will impact the overall make up of grade cohorts, I don't think it should just be at the parents discretion. There was a PP flipping out about this and the idea that you might need an assessment or consultation with the school in order to be allowed to redshirt, and I just don't understand why that would be an issue. I think it would be clarifying. My kids have taken all kind of placement screenings in life -- I find it useful because usually the school or activity is much better positioned to make sure my kid is in the appropriate level in terms of both readiness and challenge.

ITA.

I'm skeptical of anyone who balks at the idea of involving the ES in the decision to redshirt. If you are doing it because you are concerned about child's readiness -- not to confer a competitive advantage by being older and bigger -- then you should welcome school's input. I agree that so many parents really don't know what Kindergarten readiness looks like -- Kindergarten is in very large part for working on SEL.

What you're missing is that with private schools it's often at the suggestion of the school. You all need to make up your minds about who you're mad at here. The schools love kids ready to hit the ground running and learning even if that means fewer 4 year olds and more kids about to turn 6.

I can only speak for myself, but I was talking about public school...I know private school is very different on this front.

Ok. I haven't read a single legitimate complaint here about how any child was truly affected by another kid being a few months older. So far its parents don't like other parents bragging. And not getting enough play time as a starter in basketball for a kid who never had any basketball promise anyway. What am I missing? Anything else?

Then you either haven't been reading or you've just decided to define "legitimate" as only posts you agree with. A number of posters have talked about having kids who have been bullied or teased, either by redshirted kids or in general for being young, even though they were on time for the class (having a significant number of older kids in a K class is going to make the younger kids seem younger).

Sorry, but I don’t consider the irrational fear and low likelihood your child *might get teased for being young as a legitimate complaint for when others feel their child should start kindergarten. That is a case by case problem. Your kid could potentially be teased about anything.

It's the people redshirting for no discernible reason who are responding to irrational fears of low likelihood events. It's so funny to me that:

Concerns from a redshirting parent about their kid being marginalized or struggling due to being a few months younger than peers: Valid

Concerns of a non-redshirting parent about their kid being marginalized or struggling due to being a year-plus younger than peers: Invalid

Exactly!!!