Does everyone on here with kids applying to top 50 schools really have the $80K per year to spend?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I grew up in the Midwest in an area where going to college was the expectation, but very little prestige given to this school over that. People mostly went public.

But .. there was also an expectation that kids got cars over their own in their teen years (new, nice cars). People cared indeed about brand names. People got married pretty young, bought an home at 30, and had their 3 or 4 kids by the time they were in their mid 30.

My parents were east coast transplants and we had to use the family car when it was free and applied to colleges further afield. We all went to Ivy League schools (in the day when it wasn’t that hard for full pay kids).

And now I live in Brooklyn and see this mania up close.

But as I watch my Midwest friends repeating this cycle I think, that’s a better way. It’s weird how this college thing overtakes a childhood. My old friends had more kids, roomy houses, less financial stress, got a lake house in MI or WI, are on track for retirement, and their kids had carefree childhoods. They all have fulfilling jobs. Their kids will too.

Why do we do this?

This is so interesting. What do you think is going on?

Same. I actually think my senior DD would love the midwestern university in the town I grew up in. She has toured and does like it but is influenced by the culture here and thinks that because it has a high acceptance rate it isn’t as good as schools with a lower acceptance rate. She could just pick this school and enjoy her senior year and also enjoy her college experience.

She is correct in that her academic cohort at a lower ranked / acceptance rate college is definitely for the most part, going to be inferior, regardless of the standard of teaching / research at the college.

40% of kids at Williams, Amherst etc all recruited athletes. Why do people still buy this?

But Williams and Amherst are D3 which means they value academics and those athletes have to get in first. They're not dumb University of Alabama jocks. My DD was recruited at Johns Hopkins. The coach told her if she didn't have a 1460 SAT he couldn't even begin conversations with her. And conversations with her did not mean she'd get in. Just that he wasn't about to waste his time. These top LACs are like that with their athletes. She had to get a pre-read and then apply. These schools don't admit athletes who cannot cut it academically. You're thinking of D1 and D2.

Nope, I'm thinking of what I heard from both Williams and Amherst AOs. That roughly 80-90% of applicants are academically qualified. Academically speaking, the kids who are applying to these schools are as impressive as kids who get into these schools. The difference for athletes? That's it. They're athletes .. and in many cases not the best .. those kids went D1. Athletes are no different than development cases. They got the 1450 on the SAT so they don't bust the numbers (and now with TO .. they don't even need that) and they can play a ball game. Do you really think that 1460 is an SAT score that gets non-athletic kids past the first round? I'm astounded by this naiveté. The median 50% at JHU is 1520 to 1560. The SAT isn't that hard and it's highly prep-able. A 1450 is like saying your kid needed a 3.2. Not a flex!

Well u are wrong about that. My kid got D1 offers, but the academic caliber of some of the D3s was way above the D1 schools that offered a spot in his sport. Would you turn down a #7 school (6% acceptance rate to attend a #120 (85% acceptance rate)? No way! And the caliber of D3 in this sport is very high for that reason.

It’s going to depend on the sport. If kids are looking at million dollar NFL, NBA, etc contracts it’s one thing. Some sports there isn’t a lucrative future- so college is the end of the road.

The top athletes in the county look to a future in .. athletics. At least part time. So yes, the d3 athletes are usually not the top in the country. Not always even the top in their high school.

That makes no sense. My son was #1 in VA in his event in track. DD is #3 right now in her event and #7 in another. Son went D3 and DD will go D3. Not because they suck athletically but because it's track. There is no pro. No money to be had absent endorsements and they're hard to come by in the sport. They want to be engineers. They will fare far better in the future as engineers than track stars. D1 schools chased after my son and likely will my DD (they cannot talk to her until after June of her sophomore year which has not happened yet). They're excellent athletes who CHOSE D3. Son is at MIT. DD is talking to MIT and CMU (There are no NCAA rules re tack and D3 prior to June of sophomore year).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many people on this board assume people had the funds for a 529 all these years. Many people did not. Also, community college is not a second chance for academic failures. Jeez. Many successful students have started there and continued their education, while working an almost full time job to save for future education after CC.

The overall stats for the average kid attending CC are far bleaker than you imply

My wife had a perfect score on her SAT and was an excellent student. She started in CC because her mom was sick and she wanted to be close to home. After her mom passed, she transferred to Brown and got a BA in math and then went on to get her MBA from Wharton. She is doing quite well in life and combined our HHI is over $1M. Most of that is her contribution. I am also an Ivy grad - Yale undergrad and Harvard law. We will pay for whatever school our son chooses. Right now he doesn't have any Ivy on the list. His top choice is GA Tech. If he wanted to go to a CC, we would support that too.

[Anonymous]

I went to CC (lived at home), then state flagship (lived on campus), then top 20. I went to the right schools at the right time. I did not burden my parents. They paid for my CC, then for half my state flagship. None for grad school. That was our agreement. No regrets and all my schools have served me well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't read this entire thread but my kid who currently attends a top 50 school got a scholarship worth more than half of tuition - so not one of the full rides, but very substantial help. Also was offered a spot at a T25 that was 85K per year so not attending that one. Many of my kids' school friends are also on partial scholarships of varying degrees - not everyone is paying full freight.

What kind of scholarship? Very few (if any) T30 colleges offer merit scholarships, and I don't think it is a stretch to say that applies to T60.

Academic scholarships/honors college offers include some money ($25,000 + per year at my kids' school). Other kid at a lower ranked LAC also got merit money. You have to be willing to take an offer a bit below your top acceptance level if you want merit aid, but it does exist. But parents on DCUM seem to mostly be interested in getting their kid accepted to highest ranked school possible and that is inconsistent with merit aid, unless you are winning one of a very few full rides.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Willingness to pay is definitely a hook. Colleges can say they’re “need blind” until they’re blue in the face. If your parents make $200k-400k and refuse to borrow or spend more than 20% of annual HHI on college, elite colleges will not allow you to enroll.

‘Hook” is a reference to admissions decisions, not enrollment. Sorry. You are incorrect. The ivies are need blind for admissions.

People who think like you are the reason kids keep applying to schools they have no intention of attending, just to say they got in.

If by “people like me” you mean “people who think it is important to know facts for this challenging process “ then I will take that label. No problem.

Btw both my kids accepted ED so you are wrong yet again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Eh, the food you find in Providence or New Haven is the same food you find in Madison, Ann Arbor, Columbia or Minneapolis/St Paul. They have Indian in all those places. And theater. And music. I've never found this area to be especially food-rich tbh.

+1. The quality of the Indian food here is pretty dismal actually.

the Indian food in the cities around Chicago and in Chicago is way better than in the Washington area, same for middle eastern food. Only ramen in DC is marginally better and by that I mostly mean just Daikaya and their sister restaurant. Any college town is going to have asians and there will be restaurants that cater to asian palates. If you are looking for good Ethiopian, that will be hard but it is hard in c-ville too. Isn't part of college and young adulthood struggling with the fact that your parents worked and and made it and that means they have access to the good life but you, their child, still have to work hard and make a life for yourself so you can afford for yourself and your kids the life your parents gave to you? I am fully planning on helping my kids but I also teach them that adults who look to anyone but themselves for help are weak and lack moral fiber and trust in G-D. Sometimes that means you go hungry or eat cabbage soup for a week, but asking for a hand out from anyone is shameful, even your parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Funny you should ask this OP.

When I hit “submit payment” and a link to deduct $42,650 from our bank account last Tuesday- for ONE SEMESTER- I had the same thought. Who in their right mind really does this?

1) those with over $20MM in the bank, 2) those with paying grandpas

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Willingness to pay is definitely a hook. Colleges can say they’re “need blind” until they’re blue in the face. If your parents make $200k-400k and refuse to borrow or spend more than 20% of annual HHI on college, elite colleges will not allow you to enroll.

This.

It's a scam.

I'm actually surprised the FTC doesn't go after their false marketing claims. We're talking a multi-trillion industry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in the Midwest in an area where going to college was the expectation, but very little prestige given to this school over that. People mostly went public.

But .. there was also an expectation that kids got cars over their own in their teen years (new, nice cars). People cared indeed about brand names. People got married pretty young, bought an home at 30, and had their 3 or 4 kids by the time they were in their mid 30.

My parents were east coast transplants and we had to use the family car when it was free and applied to colleges further afield. We all went to Ivy League schools (in the day when it wasn’t that hard for full pay kids).

And now I live in Brooklyn and see this mania up close.

But as I watch my Midwest friends repeating this cycle I think, that’s a better way. It’s weird how this college thing overtakes a childhood. My old friends had more kids, roomy houses, less financial stress, got a lake house in MI or WI, are on track for retirement, and their kids had carefree childhoods. They all have fulfilling jobs. Their kids will too.

Why do we do this?

This is so interesting. What do you think is going on?

Same. I actually think my senior DD would love the midwestern university in the town I grew up in. She has toured and does like it but is influenced by the culture here and thinks that because it has a high acceptance rate it isn’t as good as schools with a lower acceptance rate. She could just pick this school and enjoy her senior year and also enjoy her college experience.

She is correct in that her academic cohort at a lower ranked / acceptance rate college is definitely for the most part, going to be inferior, regardless of the standard of teaching / research at the college.

40% of kids at Williams, Amherst etc all recruited athletes. Why do people still buy this?

But Williams and Amherst are D3 which means they value academics and those athletes have to get in first. They're not dumb University of Alabama jocks. My DD was recruited at Johns Hopkins. The coach told her if she didn't have a 1460 SAT he couldn't even begin conversations with her. And conversations with her did not mean she'd get in. Just that he wasn't about to waste his time. These top LACs are like that with their athletes. She had to get a pre-read and then apply. These schools don't admit athletes who cannot cut it academically. You're thinking of D1 and D2.

Well that is unique to Hopkins or to your daughter. I know Ivy recruits this past year who were recruited with SATs well below 1400. I'm related to one. I know several others because I coach in the sport.

My kid was recruited at Carnegie Mellon and Swarthmore and they wanted top scores before they considered them

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in the Midwest in an area where going to college was the expectation, but very little prestige given to this school over that. People mostly went public.

But .. there was also an expectation that kids got cars over their own in their teen years (new, nice cars). People cared indeed about brand names. People got married pretty young, bought an home at 30, and had their 3 or 4 kids by the time they were in their mid 30.

My parents were east coast transplants and we had to use the family car when it was free and applied to colleges further afield. We all went to Ivy League schools (in the day when it wasn’t that hard for full pay kids).

And now I live in Brooklyn and see this mania up close.

But as I watch my Midwest friends repeating this cycle I think, that’s a better way. It’s weird how this college thing overtakes a childhood. My old friends had more kids, roomy houses, less financial stress, got a lake house in MI or WI, are on track for retirement, and their kids had carefree childhoods. They all have fulfilling jobs. Their kids will too.

Why do we do this?

This is so interesting. What do you think is going on?

Same. I actually think my senior DD would love the midwestern university in the town I grew up in. She has toured and does like it but is influenced by the culture here and thinks that because it has a high acceptance rate it isn’t as good as schools with a lower acceptance rate. She could just pick this school and enjoy her senior year and also enjoy her college experience.

She is correct in that her academic cohort at a lower ranked / acceptance rate college is definitely for the most part, going to be inferior, regardless of the standard of teaching / research at the college.

40% of kids at Williams, Amherst etc all recruited athletes. Why do people still buy this?

But Williams and Amherst are D3 which means they value academics and those athletes have to get in first. They're not dumb University of Alabama jocks. My DD was recruited at Johns Hopkins. The coach told her if she didn't have a 1460 SAT he couldn't even begin conversations with her. And conversations with her did not mean she'd get in. Just that he wasn't about to waste his time. These top LACs are like that with their athletes. She had to get a pre-read and then apply. These schools don't admit athletes who cannot cut it academically. You're thinking of D1 and D2.

Well that is unique to Hopkins or to your daughter. I know Ivy recruits this past year who were recruited with SATs well below 1400. I'm related to one. I know several others because I coach in the sport.

My kid was recruited at Carnegie Mellon and Swarthmore and they wanted top scores before they considered them

This was our experience with Williams too. And those top scores only got the coach to consider you, did not get you in, or get the coach to add you to the team.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in the Midwest in an area where going to college was the expectation, but very little prestige given to this school over that. People mostly went public.

But .. there was also an expectation that kids got cars over their own in their teen years (new, nice cars). People cared indeed about brand names. People got married pretty young, bought an home at 30, and had their 3 or 4 kids by the time they were in their mid 30.

My parents were east coast transplants and we had to use the family car when it was free and applied to colleges further afield. We all went to Ivy League schools (in the day when it wasn’t that hard for full pay kids).

And now I live in Brooklyn and see this mania up close.

But as I watch my Midwest friends repeating this cycle I think, that’s a better way. It’s weird how this college thing overtakes a childhood. My old friends had more kids, roomy houses, less financial stress, got a lake house in MI or WI, are on track for retirement, and their kids had carefree childhoods. They all have fulfilling jobs. Their kids will too.

Why do we do this?

This is so interesting. What do you think is going on?

Same. I actually think my senior DD would love the midwestern university in the town I grew up in. She has toured and does like it but is influenced by the culture here and thinks that because it has a high acceptance rate it isn’t as good as schools with a lower acceptance rate. She could just pick this school and enjoy her senior year and also enjoy her college experience.

She is correct in that her academic cohort at a lower ranked / acceptance rate college is definitely for the most part, going to be inferior, regardless of the standard of teaching / research at the college.

40% of kids at Williams, Amherst etc all recruited athletes. Why do people still buy this?

But Williams and Amherst are D3 which means they value academics and those athletes have to get in first. They're not dumb University of Alabama jocks. My DD was recruited at Johns Hopkins. The coach told her if she didn't have a 1460 SAT he couldn't even begin conversations with her. And conversations with her did not mean she'd get in. Just that he wasn't about to waste his time. These top LACs are like that with their athletes. She had to get a pre-read and then apply. These schools don't admit athletes who cannot cut it academically. You're thinking of D1 and D2.

Nope, I'm thinking of what I heard from both Williams and Amherst AOs. That roughly 80-90% of applicants are academically qualified. Academically speaking, the kids who are applying to these schools are as impressive as kids who get into these schools. The difference for athletes? That's it. They're athletes .. and in many cases not the best .. those kids went D1. Athletes are no different than development cases. They got the 1450 on the SAT so they don't bust the numbers (and now with TO .. they don't even need that) and they can play a ball game. Do you really think that 1460 is an SAT score that gets non-athletic kids past the first round? I'm astounded by this naiveté. The median 50% at JHU is 1520 to 1560. The SAT isn't that hard and it's highly prep-able. A 1450 is like saying your kid needed a 3.2. Not a flex!

Well u are wrong about that. My kid got D1 offers, but the academic caliber of some of the D3s was way above the D1 schools that offered a spot in his sport. Would you turn down a #7 school (6% acceptance rate to attend a #120 (85% acceptance rate)? No way! And the caliber of D3 in this sport is very high for that reason.

It’s going to depend on the sport. If kids are looking at million dollar NFL, NBA, etc contracts it’s one thing. Some sports there isn’t a lucrative future- so college is the end of the road.

The top athletes in the county look to a future in .. athletics. At least part time. So yes, the d3 athletes are usually not the top in the country. Not always even the top in their high school.

You would be completely wrong in men’s soccer. Pipe dream.

I don’t follow. D3 soccer players are not even remotely close to the best in the country. Many soccer players go pro and skip college altogether, so wouldn’t even say D1 are the best.

Much like baseball…1/2 the 1st round MLB draft picks are HS kids. The best players don’t go to college either.

That’s the point if what I wrote. Any male soccer player worth anything is playing abroad by the time they are college age. Good soccer players that can make it D1 will often take a D3 offer if it’s better academically because pro soccer isn’t lucrative in the us and so few make it. Gotta take the best school for your future “real” job.

[Anonymous]

We have an only child and saved enough to afford the full $80k/year. He ended up choosing a school that costs us $35k/year

[Anonymous]

Our combined HHI is about 250K. We're in VA. We've had a 539 since kid was a baby. I'm grateful our only child has grades that will at best get her into Virginia Tech, or on of the other VA state schools not named UVA or WM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Funny you should ask this OP.

When I hit “submit payment” and a link to deduct $42,650 from our bank account last Tuesday- for ONE SEMESTER- I had the same thought. Who in their right mind really does this?

1) those with over $20MM in the bank, 2) those with paying grandpas

Nope. HHI $230, have been saving since the children were little (started with $210/month for maxium tax benefit, as our income went up we did a little but more, plus bonus money, etc). DC 1 got merit aid, so very inexpensive, will have funds leftover for grad school. DC 2, attending am over $80k per year private, will be a stretch for us, between 529 and cash flow - there will be nothing left for grad school, they will need to pay on their own.

And, we don't go abroad for vacation, drive 10+ year old cars until they die, etc). We've made education a priority

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You had 18 years to save. Plus cash flow some now. What have you been doing all this time? You knew this expense was coming.

What I’ve run across is people who assume state school will be as affordable as it was for their parents, coupled with some magical thinking that their DC will be the one to receive scholarships.

It would be better to understand sooner, but these are often households that can cash flow 30K for in state tuition.

But the flip side families spending willy nilly on private school, big houses, vacations, they do know what college costs and do tend to pay when the time comes. There’s some myth around here that these are the families posting, not IME.

If you have kids, shouldn't you know what college costs? Or do you assume you are going to be getting handouts? Most of us can not afford the latter.

I have never heard of a top school offering merit scholarships - some kids attend where they are accepted. Period. Which is fine, but don't try to tell people that they are attending because of scholarships that don't exist.

It’s crazy to me, but I think some parents really don’t know. I think it doesn’t seem important when kids are toddlers and then during school they always think “next year” they will deal with it and then time flies. In an area where so many people worry about activities and sports in preparation for college apps at such a young age, it’s hard to believe. And yet! I’ve seen parents post in my neighborhood FB group at the end of junior year asking about college tours and expressing shock at the cost of even local schools. My friend is a college counselor and she said even in Arlington / McLean / Falls Church she meets families who live in $2-3M houses who just didn’t plan or think about college at all until she gets a panicked call.

I had loans (a whopping $20k at 2% that I refinanced to nearly 0%). I think other parents of my generation may have experience the same and think “I had loans and it wasn’t so bad!”