Missing middle- Arlington

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do you need a middle?

Most rich towns often have rich homes and a poorer section where the maids, landscapers, handiman live.

I mean does Beverly Hills, Palm Beach and Aspen concerned about the middle?

No

Don't worry, this will actually help get rid of the middle class, as old-time, middle and lower-class homeowners sell out to developers. And then upper-class people move into the new duplex, townhouses, and multiplexes. It's a developer's dream.

This has been happening for years. Do you have any proof that MMH policy will speed up the sale of older homes to developers?

+1

It already happens a lot.

Arlington agent here. Every older home in poor condition generally sells to a builder. Now that they can diversify from building single family homes to multi family housing that they can quickly sell to investors, it will likely accelerate the pace because they will not be concerned about carrying and marketing costs.

An agent asked for advice this morning on which builders to call to sell a tear down on an R-5 lot. I told her to call the three builders who have applied for MM permits.

Permitting has been in place for less than a month, so you may have to wait for a year to collect data on tear downs used for single family versus multi family.

If every older home is already sold to a builder how could it accelerate? Will they aggressively cold call people who live in older homes?

It will happen naturally.
There are neighborhoods in Arlington that would not support building a $2.3 M house so the lots were cheaper. People who buy a $1.3 M townhouse or rent a 2 bed 2 bath in a 6 plex are not as discerning about the neighborhood, so those lots will become desirable and increase in value.

NV is building $900plus townhouses in one of the slummiest parts of Arlington off Carlin Springs Road. The area is filled with dumpy semi detached houses and old red brick garden apartments. Once those townhouses sell, they will improve the area enough to attract builders who will replace the current semi detached housing with the new version.

Same thing will happen when MM goes into the few lower cost single family areas

Here's a $2.3M house in Lyon Park on a lot that probably would have been better off as two $1.2M duplexes. Been on the market for a long time (more than the 23 days listed in redfin). I walk past it all the time. Close to the park, walkable to metro, but the lot really isn't big enough for this house. Doesn't even have a real driveway. People who can spend that much have much better options.
https://www.redfin.com/VA/Arlington/722-N-Highland-St-22201/home/11256176

23 days isn’t very long for that price point. That being said, given the shape of the lot, for a SFH, I would have gone super modern with a detached garage and a high fence (it’s on the corner so I think you can do a higher fence and get a private backyard in the back). Duplex would have been even better, you are right.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do you need a middle?

Most rich towns often have rich homes and a poorer section where the maids, landscapers, handiman live.

I mean does Beverly Hills, Palm Beach and Aspen concerned about the middle?

No

Don't worry, this will actually help get rid of the middle class, as old-time, middle and lower-class homeowners sell out to developers. And then upper-class people move into the new duplex, townhouses, and multiplexes. It's a developer's dream.

This has been happening for years. Do you have any proof that MMH policy will speed up the sale of older homes to developers?

+1

It already happens a lot.

Arlington agent here. Every older home in poor condition generally sells to a builder. Now that they can diversify from building single family homes to multi family housing that they can quickly sell to investors, it will likely accelerate the pace because they will not be concerned about carrying and marketing costs.

An agent asked for advice this morning on which builders to call to sell a tear down on an R-5 lot. I told her to call the three builders who have applied for MM permits.

Permitting has been in place for less than a month, so you may have to wait for a year to collect data on tear downs used for single family versus multi family.

If every older home is already sold to a builder how could it accelerate? Will they aggressively cold call people who live in older homes?

It will happen naturally.
There are neighborhoods in Arlington that would not support building a $2.3 M house so the lots were cheaper. People who buy a $1.3 M townhouse or rent a 2 bed 2 bath in a 6 plex are not as discerning about the neighborhood, so those lots will become desirable and increase in value.

NV is building $900plus townhouses in one of the slummiest parts of Arlington off Carlin Springs Road. The area is filled with dumpy semi detached houses and old red brick garden apartments. Once those townhouses sell, they will improve the area enough to attract builders who will replace the current semi detached housing with the new version.

Same thing will happen when MM goes into the few lower cost single family areas

Here's a $2.3M house in Lyon Park on a lot that probably would have been better off as two $1.2M duplexes. Been on the market for a long time (more than the 23 days listed in redfin). I walk past it all the time. Close to the park, walkable to metro, but the lot really isn't big enough for this house. Doesn't even have a real driveway. People who can spend that much have much better options.
https://www.redfin.com/VA/Arlington/722-N-Highland-St-22201/home/11256176

23 days isn’t very long for that price point. That being said, given the shape of the lot, for a SFH, I would have gone super modern with a detached garage and a high fence (it’s on the corner so I think you can do a higher fence and get a private backyard in the back). Duplex would have been even better, you are right.

The 23 days is not correct. It was probably taken off, relisted. I live nearby and it's had a "for sale" sign for months.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do you need a middle?

Most rich towns often have rich homes and a poorer section where the maids, landscapers, handiman live.

I mean does Beverly Hills, Palm Beach and Aspen concerned about the middle?

No

Don't worry, this will actually help get rid of the middle class, as old-time, middle and lower-class homeowners sell out to developers. And then upper-class people move into the new duplex, townhouses, and multiplexes. It's a developer's dream.

This has been happening for years. Do you have any proof that MMH policy will speed up the sale of older homes to developers?

+1

It already happens a lot.

Arlington agent here. Every older home in poor condition generally sells to a builder. Now that they can diversify from building single family homes to multi family housing that they can quickly sell to investors, it will likely accelerate the pace because they will not be concerned about carrying and marketing costs.

An agent asked for advice this morning on which builders to call to sell a tear down on an R-5 lot. I told her to call the three builders who have applied for MM permits.

Permitting has been in place for less than a month, so you may have to wait for a year to collect data on tear downs used for single family versus multi family.

If every older home is already sold to a builder how could it accelerate? Will they aggressively cold call people who live in older homes?

It will happen naturally.
There are neighborhoods in Arlington that would not support building a $2.3 M house so the lots were cheaper. People who buy a $1.3 M townhouse or rent a 2 bed 2 bath in a 6 plex are not as discerning about the neighborhood, so those lots will become desirable and increase in value.

NV is building $900plus townhouses in one of the slummiest parts of Arlington off Carlin Springs Road. The area is filled with dumpy semi detached houses and old red brick garden apartments. Once those townhouses sell, they will improve the area enough to attract builders who will replace the current semi detached housing with the new version.

Same thing will happen when MM goes into the few lower cost single family areas

Here's a $2.3M house in Lyon Park on a lot that probably would have been better off as two $1.2M duplexes. Been on the market for a long time (more than the 23 days listed in redfin). I walk past it all the time. Close to the park, walkable to metro, but the lot really isn't big enough for this house. Doesn't even have a real driveway. People who can spend that much have much better options.
https://www.redfin.com/VA/Arlington/722-N-Highland-St-22201/home/11256176

23 days isn’t very long for that price point. That being said, given the shape of the lot, for a SFH, I would have gone super modern with a detached garage and a high fence (it’s on the corner so I think you can do a higher fence and get a private backyard in the back). Duplex would have been even better, you are right.

The 23 days is not correct. It was probably taken off, relisted. I live nearby and it's had a "for sale" sign for months.

Ok that makes more sense then!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do you need a middle?

Most rich towns often have rich homes and a poorer section where the maids, landscapers, handiman live.

I mean does Beverly Hills, Palm Beach and Aspen concerned about the middle?

No

Don't worry, this will actually help get rid of the middle class, as old-time, middle and lower-class homeowners sell out to developers. And then upper-class people move into the new duplex, townhouses, and multiplexes. It's a developer's dream.

Are upper class people dying to live in multiplexes?

I know things get confusing in a HCOL area like DC, but if you're buying a $1.25 million duplex, or renting a $4000 unit in a multiplex, you're upper class. You're certainly not the 25-year-old middle-class nonprofit worker, teacher, or firefighter who thought this was the ticket to living the good life in Arlington

So naive and entitled (plus the misleading marketing by the Board for MMH) - these 20 somethings genuinely thought they were going to magically own in Arlington. I was in a community meeting with one of these young millennials who was arguing for MMH saying it was like a car, that she may not be able to own MMH right away (like a new car) but as more MMH is built prices will depreciate (like a car). A home owner in her 40s and 50s needed to explain that real estate and cars don’t depreciate/appreciate in the same way. This is what we were dealing with for a large number of YIMBYs. Lack of knowledge about economics and total naïveté/entitlement.

Let’s say there are two homes next to each other with equal square footage and identical lots. One is brand new and the other is 20+ years old with few updates. Is there a meaningful price difference? The MMH supporter was arguing that yes, there is. She couldn’t afford the brand new home but could possibly buy the old one with outdated fixtures. So years from now, a 20 something will have more housing options.

Uh, no, she won’t. Don’t you get it? 20+ year old houses (with outdated fixtures) will be torn down because the lot is so valuable. That’s literally what’s happening right now. Developers are snapping up old properties and building new ones, only now with the ability to build a six plex and have rental income this trend is going to accelerate.

I haven’t seen that happen when a home shares a wall. It could be gutted and flipped, but it won’t be torn down.

I’d love see your sample size considering there are so few of these properties here in Arlington (remember, that’s why we needed to pass MMH - so we could build them in every neighborhood in Arlington!)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do you need a middle?

Most rich towns often have rich homes and a poorer section where the maids, landscapers, handiman live.

I mean does Beverly Hills, Palm Beach and Aspen concerned about the middle?

No

Don't worry, this will actually help get rid of the middle class, as old-time, middle and lower-class homeowners sell out to developers. And then upper-class people move into the new duplex, townhouses, and multiplexes. It's a developer's dream.

Are upper class people dying to live in multiplexes?

I know things get confusing in a HCOL area like DC, but if you're buying a $1.25 million duplex, or renting a $4000 unit in a multiplex, you're upper class. You're certainly not the 25-year-old middle-class nonprofit worker, teacher, or firefighter who thought this was the ticket to living the good life in Arlington

So naive and entitled (plus the misleading marketing by the Board for MMH) - these 20 somethings genuinely thought they were going to magically own in Arlington. I was in a community meeting with one of these young millennials who was arguing for MMH saying it was like a car, that she may not be able to own MMH right away (like a new car) but as more MMH is built prices will depreciate (like a car). A home owner in her 40s and 50s needed to explain that real estate and cars don’t depreciate/appreciate in the same way. This is what we were dealing with for a large number of YIMBYs. Lack of knowledge about economics and total naïveté/entitlement.

Let’s say there are two homes next to each other with equal square footage and identical lots. One is brand new and the other is 20+ years old with few updates. Is there a meaningful price difference? The MMH supporter was arguing that yes, there is. She couldn’t afford the brand new home but could possibly buy the old one with outdated fixtures. So years from now, a 20 something will have more housing options.

Uh, no, she won’t. Don’t you get it? 20+ year old houses (with outdated fixtures) will be torn down because the lot is so valuable. That’s literally what’s happening right now. Developers are snapping up old properties and building new ones, only now with the ability to build a six plex and have rental income this trend is going to accelerate.

I haven’t seen that happen when a home shares a wall. It could be gutted and flipped, but it won’t be torn down.

I’d love see your sample size considering there are so few of these properties here in Arlington (remember, that’s why we needed to pass MMH - so we could build them in every neighborhood in Arlington!)

There are a bunch duplexes on the edge of the Ashton Heights nieghborhood, south of Wilson Blvd near VA Square. Many have various improvements but none torn down. I suppose you could if you had the opportunity to buy two attached homes.
Example: https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/622-N-Nelson-St-Arlington-VA-22203/12087632_zpid/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do you need a middle?

Most rich towns often have rich homes and a poorer section where the maids, landscapers, handiman live.

I mean does Beverly Hills, Palm Beach and Aspen concerned about the middle?

No

Don't worry, this will actually help get rid of the middle class, as old-time, middle and lower-class homeowners sell out to developers. And then upper-class people move into the new duplex, townhouses, and multiplexes. It's a developer's dream.

This has been happening for years. Do you have any proof that MMH policy will speed up the sale of older homes to developers?

+1

It already happens a lot.

Arlington agent here. Every older home in poor condition generally sells to a builder. Now that they can diversify from building single family homes to multi family housing that they can quickly sell to investors, it will likely accelerate the pace because they will not be concerned about carrying and marketing costs.

An agent asked for advice this morning on which builders to call to sell a tear down on an R-5 lot. I told her to call the three builders who have applied for MM permits.

Permitting has been in place for less than a month, so you may have to wait for a year to collect data on tear downs used for single family versus multi family.

If every older home is already sold to a builder how could it accelerate? Will they aggressively cold call people who live in older homes?

It will happen naturally.
There are neighborhoods in Arlington that would not support building a $2.3 M house so the lots were cheaper. People who buy a $1.3 M townhouse or rent a 2 bed 2 bath in a 6 plex are not as discerning about the neighborhood, so those lots will become desirable and increase in value.

NV is building $900plus townhouses in one of the slummiest parts of Arlington off Carlin Springs Road. The area is filled with dumpy semi detached houses and old red brick garden apartments. Once those townhouses sell, they will improve the area enough to attract builders who will replace the current semi detached housing with the new version.

Same thing will happen when MM goes into the few lower cost single family areas

Here's a $2.3M house in Lyon Park on a lot that probably would have been better off as two $1.2M duplexes. Been on the market for a long time (more than the 23 days listed in redfin). I walk past it all the time. Close to the park, walkable to metro, but the lot really isn't big enough for this house. Doesn't even have a real driveway. People who can spend that much have much better options.
https://www.redfin.com/VA/Arlington/722-N-Highland-St-22201/home/11256176

23 days isn’t very long for that price point. That being said, given the shape of the lot, for a SFH, I would have gone super modern with a detached garage and a high fence (it’s on the corner so I think you can do a higher fence and get a private backyard in the back). Duplex would have been even better, you are right.

low fence for 25' in each direction on the corner

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do you need a middle?

Most rich towns often have rich homes and a poorer section where the maids, landscapers, handiman live.

I mean does Beverly Hills, Palm Beach and Aspen concerned about the middle?

No

Don't worry, this will actually help get rid of the middle class, as old-time, middle and lower-class homeowners sell out to developers. And then upper-class people move into the new duplex, townhouses, and multiplexes. It's a developer's dream.

This has been happening for years. Do you have any proof that MMH policy will speed up the sale of older homes to developers?

+1

It already happens a lot.

Arlington agent here. Every older home in poor condition generally sells to a builder. Now that they can diversify from building single family homes to multi family housing that they can quickly sell to investors, it will likely accelerate the pace because they will not be concerned about carrying and marketing costs.

An agent asked for advice this morning on which builders to call to sell a tear down on an R-5 lot. I told her to call the three builders who have applied for MM permits.

Permitting has been in place for less than a month, so you may have to wait for a year to collect data on tear downs used for single family versus multi family.

If every older home is already sold to a builder how could it accelerate? Will they aggressively cold call people who live in older homes?

It will happen naturally.
There are neighborhoods in Arlington that would not support building a $2.3 M house so the lots were cheaper. People who buy a $1.3 M townhouse or rent a 2 bed 2 bath in a 6 plex are not as discerning about the neighborhood, so those lots will become desirable and increase in value.

NV is building $900plus townhouses in one of the slummiest parts of Arlington off Carlin Springs Road. The area is filled with dumpy semi detached houses and old red brick garden apartments. Once those townhouses sell, they will improve the area enough to attract builders who will replace the current semi detached housing with the new version.

Same thing will happen when MM goes into the few lower cost single family areas

Here's a $2.3M house in Lyon Park on a lot that probably would have been better off as two $1.2M duplexes. Been on the market for a long time (more than the 23 days listed in redfin). I walk past it all the time. Close to the park, walkable to metro, but the lot really isn't big enough for this house. Doesn't even have a real driveway. People who can spend that much have much better options.
https://www.redfin.com/VA/Arlington/722-N-Highland-St-22201/home/11256176

23 days isn’t very long for that price point. That being said, given the shape of the lot, for a SFH, I would have gone super modern with a detached garage and a high fence (it’s on the corner so I think you can do a higher fence and get a private backyard in the back). Duplex would have been even better, you are right.

low fence for 25' in each direction on the corner

I can think of 6 corner lots near us that have a high fence on the side yard starting halfway down the corner. Wouldn’t this house be allowed to start the high fence somewhere mid-way down the side of the house even though it’s adjacent to the street rather than another yard? Just curious.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do you need a middle?

Most rich towns often have rich homes and a poorer section where the maids, landscapers, handiman live.

I mean does Beverly Hills, Palm Beach and Aspen concerned about the middle?

No

Don't worry, this will actually help get rid of the middle class, as old-time, middle and lower-class homeowners sell out to developers. And then upper-class people move into the new duplex, townhouses, and multiplexes. It's a developer's dream.

This has been happening for years. Do you have any proof that MMH policy will speed up the sale of older homes to developers?

+1

It already happens a lot.

Arlington agent here. Every older home in poor condition generally sells to a builder. Now that they can diversify from building single family homes to multi family housing that they can quickly sell to investors, it will likely accelerate the pace because they will not be concerned about carrying and marketing costs.

An agent asked for advice this morning on which builders to call to sell a tear down on an R-5 lot. I told her to call the three builders who have applied for MM permits.

Permitting has been in place for less than a month, so you may have to wait for a year to collect data on tear downs used for single family versus multi family.

If every older home is already sold to a builder how could it accelerate? Will they aggressively cold call people who live in older homes?

It will happen naturally.
There are neighborhoods in Arlington that would not support building a $2.3 M house so the lots were cheaper. People who buy a $1.3 M townhouse or rent a 2 bed 2 bath in a 6 plex are not as discerning about the neighborhood, so those lots will become desirable and increase in value.

NV is building $900plus townhouses in one of the slummiest parts of Arlington off Carlin Springs Road. The area is filled with dumpy semi detached houses and old red brick garden apartments. Once those townhouses sell, they will improve the area enough to attract builders who will replace the current semi detached housing with the new version.

Same thing will happen when MM goes into the few lower cost single family areas

Here's a $2.3M house in Lyon Park on a lot that probably would have been better off as two $1.2M duplexes. Been on the market for a long time (more than the 23 days listed in redfin). I walk past it all the time. Close to the park, walkable to metro, but the lot really isn't big enough for this house. Doesn't even have a real driveway. People who can spend that much have much better options.
https://www.redfin.com/VA/Arlington/722-N-Highland-St-22201/home/11256176

23 days isn’t very long for that price point. That being said, given the shape of the lot, for a SFH, I would have gone super modern with a detached garage and a high fence (it’s on the corner so I think you can do a higher fence and get a private backyard in the back). Duplex would have been even better, you are right.

low fence for 25' in each direction on the corner

I can think of 6 corner lots near us that have a high fence on the side yard starting halfway down the corner. Wouldn’t this house be allowed to start the high fence somewhere mid-way down the side of the house even though it’s adjacent to the street rather than another yard? Just curious.

We put one in recently and it’s 3’ for the first 25’ on each side. After the 25’ they can do the 6’ fence on the side yard.

https://arlingtonva.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/38/2020/03/Fence-Permit-Application-fillable.pdf

[Anonymous]

Setbacks on corner lots generally suck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So begins the decline of Arlington. More people will choose McLean or Bethesda once they see how neighborhoods get transformed by this stupidity.

I don’t think this will happen. I think people will continue to want Arlington for their commutes, or being near amenities, etc. Many of us may go private (like our family). But Arlington is still going to be desirable.

For many people, the dream of owning a SFH is about being on a quiet, peaceful street relatively free of density, not one clogged with cars and people. If people want density, they choose a townhouse or condo. Make no mistake, many people's property values will be negatively impacted.

It's like when you're considering buying a house, but the one next door has all the hallmarks of being inhabited by a hoarder (stuff all over the lawn and backyard, poorly cared for) -- you take a pass and wait for something better to come along. No different here.

Yesterday I literally had someone tell me they chose a SFH in Arlington bc it reminded them of a “city.” The home buying demographic is changing. People are valuing different things.

Perhaps they were looking more over in Lyon Village, which does feel like the city as opposed to homes in the Williamsburg, country club Hills, etc. neighborhoods.

DP. I don’t see the incentives for MM housing in those neighborhoods and if you look at the map most of the MM projects are near amenities. I live in a SFH in 22207 because when we outgrew our condo in LV we couldn’t afford a SFH in that neighborhood. I would never rent here or buy a duplex or multi family housing (unless I could purchase the whole building). It’s not walkable. The rents in the R-B corridor are higher than in other parts of the county. So if I were a developer looking to build a rental that’s where it would make sense to focus.

I agree with this. And to put an even finer point on it, the developers will look for land alone the Rosslyn-Ballston corridor that’s the cheapest. Which means not Lyon Village. That neighborhood is the most expensive per square foot in all of Arlington County. If the developers want to build plexes to rent out, they will target places like Virginia Square and Lyon Park where the land prices are lower. Maybe duplexes make sense in LV, but I think the building lots are too expensive for a 4-6 plex of rental units. There are other metro-accessible neighborhoods with cheaper lots.

Two of the MM projects are in Lyon Village. One on Danvilel St.and one on Jackson St.

No there’s one duplex on N Jackson. Unless Danville just got filed. What’s the Danville address?

Not Danville, Daniel.

https://www.arlingtonva.us/Government/Programs/Building/Permits/EHO/Tracker

There is one on Daniel but the one we just filed is on Danville.

The proposed 6 plex on N Daniel is for a 6000 SF lot but the county’s webpage says the following:

Lots not meeting these minimum dimensional standards can be developed with EHO project if the lot is nonconforming, per ACZO §16.1.1 Nonconforming Lots. EHO development on nonconforming lots is limited to no more than four (4) dwelling units unless the lot is 7,000 sq. ft. or more.


What am I missing? Doesn’t the lot have to be 7000 SF for a 6 plex? Any builders or realtors have the answer to this question?

I think I’m about to answer my own question: is it a conforming lot bc it’s zoned R-5 and has 6000 SF?

But if it were zoned R-6 and had 5500 SF, would it be non-conforming and limited to a 4 plex?

TIA!

For the sake of completeness there is a special rule for R-5 lots that requires a minimum of 6000 sq ft for 5-6 plexes. So as a practical matter 6k square ft is the minimum for 5+ units.

Thanks! For those of us who have smaller lots (5500 and smaller) and older homes, would you expect they would still sell to someone building a SFH? Or will we now have more buyers interested bc of the missing middle code changes?

There are minimum widths for semi-detached houses and townhouses that means you effectively need a 64 ft wide lot to build them. So I think those lots are really limited to duplexes/triplexes/fourplexes. So more interest I guess but would depend on area as well.

I would think those sub-6000 SF lots would also be limited to 1 bedrooms if they built a 4 plex. I’m sure someone would still buy them, but not only are you limited in housing type, you’re limited in the number of bedrooms and bathrooms you can have in each unit. I am guessing (but not certain) that the most efficient 4 plex designs have 4 identical units.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do you need a middle?

Most rich towns often have rich homes and a poorer section where the maids, landscapers, handiman live.

I mean does Beverly Hills, Palm Beach and Aspen concerned about the middle?

No

Don't worry, this will actually help get rid of the middle class, as old-time, middle and lower-class homeowners sell out to developers. And then upper-class people move into the new duplex, townhouses, and multiplexes. It's a developer's dream.

Yep. All the “entry level” SFH homes will be bought by all cash investors.

That was already happening. Except for unbuildable lots.

Not really. Improved older homes are usually too expensive to be tear downs

[Anonymous]

What happens to a house like this before MMH? After? (I am assuming there's no historic deed restriction)

[Anonymous]

Sorry, left off the link!

What happens to a house like this before MMH? After? (I am assuming there's no historic deed restriction)

https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/2607-18th-St-N_Arlington_VA_22201_M65790-59086

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do you need a middle?

Most rich towns often have rich homes and a poorer section where the maids, landscapers, handiman live.

I mean does Beverly Hills, Palm Beach and Aspen concerned about the middle?

No

Don't worry, this will actually help get rid of the middle class, as old-time, middle and lower-class homeowners sell out to developers. And then upper-class people move into the new duplex, townhouses, and multiplexes. It's a developer's dream.

Are upper class people dying to live in multiplexes?

I know things get confusing in a HCOL area like DC, but if you're buying a $1.25 million duplex, or renting a $4000 unit in a multiplex, you're upper class. You're certainly not the 25-year-old middle-class nonprofit worker, teacher, or firefighter who thought this was the ticket to living the good life in Arlington

So naive and entitled (plus the misleading marketing by the Board for MMH) - these 20 somethings genuinely thought they were going to magically own in Arlington. I was in a community meeting with one of these young millennials who was arguing for MMH saying it was like a car, that she may not be able to own MMH right away (like a new car) but as more MMH is built prices will depreciate (like a car). A home owner in her 40s and 50s needed to explain that real estate and cars don’t depreciate/appreciate in the same way. This is what we were dealing with for a large number of YIMBYs. Lack of knowledge about economics and total naïveté/entitlement.

Let’s say there are two homes next to each other with equal square footage and identical lots. One is brand new and the other is 20+ years old with few updates. Is there a meaningful price difference? The MMH supporter was arguing that yes, there is. She couldn’t afford the brand new home but could possibly buy the old one with outdated fixtures. So years from now, a 20 something will have more housing options.

Uh, no, she won’t. Don’t you get it? 20+ year old houses (with outdated fixtures) will be torn down because the lot is so valuable. That’s literally what’s happening right now. Developers are snapping up old properties and building new ones, only now with the ability to build a six plex and have rental income this trend is going to accelerate.

I haven’t seen that happen when a home shares a wall. It could be gutted and flipped, but it won’t be torn down.

I’d love see your sample size considering there are so few of these properties here in Arlington (remember, that’s why we needed to pass MMH - so we could build them in every neighborhood in Arlington!)

There are a bunch duplexes on the edge of the Ashton Heights nieghborhood, south of Wilson Blvd near VA Square. Many have various improvements but none torn down. I suppose you could if you had the opportunity to buy two attached homes.
Example: https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/622-N-Nelson-St-Arlington-VA-22203/12087632_zpid/

There are many semi-detached houses in Arlington -- just not in neighborhoods with which you are familiar. Look at Westmont, a neighborhood of semi-detached between Glebe Road and Fillmore St and Columbia Pike and 7th St. Many have been renovated and expanded.

Look at the duplexes off Carlin Spring Road, on 7th St., 8th St. and around Tyrol Hill Park. Hundreds of semi-detached have been renovated and expandes.

Look at Church Courts, off Fairfax Dr. near the East Falls Church Metro. These are three levels with a walk up attic that many people have converted to another living area.

These are the semi-detacheds that are likely to be torn down and replaced by new semi-detached homes. They won't be counted as MM housing because they are already zoned for multifamily.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do you need a middle?

Most rich towns often have rich homes and a poorer section where the maids, landscapers, handiman live.

I mean does Beverly Hills, Palm Beach and Aspen concerned about the middle?

No

Don't worry, this will actually help get rid of the middle class, as old-time, middle and lower-class homeowners sell out to developers. And then upper-class people move into the new duplex, townhouses, and multiplexes. It's a developer's dream.

Yep. All the “entry level” SFH homes will be bought by all cash investors.

That was already happening. Except for unbuildable lots.

Not really. Improved older homes are usually too expensive to be tear downs

If they are "improved" then they aren't really "entry level".