Why does no one acknowledge how overworked teachers are?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think this video is an important reminder for parents and administrators

https://fb.watch/hcxdi1BUVj/?mibextid=0LFGlp

Largely because people in the private sector work far more hours.

The "extra hours for free" and "unpaid overtime" comments make me roll my eyes. Do teachers realize that other professionals are classified as "exempt" and do not get paid overtime? "Overtime" is a concept for non-exempt employees.

Oh, and summers? MCPS pays teachers for spending time on workshops, etc. Is that not "overtime"?

Back to add, and union protection? Other professionals do not have this.

That's because they don't need it. Only people with crappy jobs need unions.

You are really over the top. You really have no idea how other salaried professionals live and work.

I bet you have toilet paper and functioning bathrooms and soap. I bet you don’t have rodent and insect infestations in your workplace. I bet you have heating and a/c that works.

Do other professionals have to purchase their own office supplies, and supplies for others?

I just did a replenish on classroom supplies: paper, spare pens/pencils, dry erase markers, tissue, hand sanitizer, cleaning wipes. I dropped another $45 on my classroom. I’ll do it again in a couple months.

No, my high school does not allow us to ask parents.

Yes, they do. Lady, I had to buy my own laptop for my job. It cost more than $45.

Do teachers need like a teacher-only slack or something to talk about this stuff? These are just random job complaints. We all have them. I complain about them to my colleagues and my spouse.

Also, the amount of money I have spent on providing classroom supplies to my kids' schools over the years... it's a lot. I've bought art supplies and blocks and cleaning supplies and tissues and paper and pencils. I've helped by new rugs, contributed to funds for smart boards, paid for snacks. All of it. I get your HS apparently says you can't ask parents, which is weird, but most parents buy stuff like this for classrooms all the time. I got a note that there's a lot of runny noses in my kid's classroom this time a year and just grabbed a box of tissue and threw it in my kid's backpack this morning. My kid doesn't have a runny nose, but whatever I can do.

When I need supplies for work that my office won't pay for, no one just brings them to me! Ever.

DP. I agree with others that this shouldn't be a suffering Olympics. I also agree that all professions should be provided with the supplies they need to do their jobs. With that said, PP's point about how much money (and time) many parents put into providing supplies for schools never seems to be acknowledged.

It's difficult to have these conversations about improving the teaching profession when 1) many teachers have unions and most working professionals don't; 2) the union is responsible for negotiating contracts that should create favorable working conditions (but obviously don't); 3) Parents have less ability to improve teacher working conditions that any stakeholder in education. There is no other workplace where people volunteer time, money, and supplies as they do in education. Many of us are exhausted from being overworked in our own workplaces, while simultaneously supporting teachers and schools in general. Often, it feels like public schools are constant time and energy sucks that take away from what should be our primary job, parenting our children. And, like teachers, what parents do is never enough. It makes no sense.

It’s a suck, because it’s dysfunctional. Have you ever tried to schedule a play date with a parental set that refuse to communicate? And just watch the passive agressive messages fly? Or make the mistake of hiring a poor manager? And it creates 3x the amount of work as just doing that person’s job? Schools in America become everything from a solution to childhood hunger to social issues to adult anxieties. Some of this is deliberately done by people who want to tear down public school systems, knowing they will buckle. The solution is either to find a well-run private school or work at fixing the underlying dysfunction starting with stopping the finger pointing

Agreed, which is why an entire thread this is just "why won't anyone acknowledge how overworked teacher are" is not very productive because lots of us can acknowledge how overworked teachers are, while also pointing out that we are also overworked.

I felt this way through the first two years of the pandemic during the debate over school closures, but I am baffled as to why teachers unions don't work to organize more with parent groups. It's an obvious alliance. Teachers' working conditions are kids' learning conditions. Most parents I know want teachers who are well-compensated, have time to prepare, have adequate coverage for sick days, etc. Parents want quality facilities and good supplies. I don't know any parents who are like "I hope my kids teacher is buried in random administrative duties for an extra 6 hours a day and also has to purchase all the classroom supplies herself and can't take a sick day because of the sub shortage." No parent wants that.

But so often parents are seen and talked about as the enemy. We're really not. The actual enemy are policymakers who refuse to value or fund education, central office administrators who cater to the whims of politicians and consultants, those consultants who suck up education funds that could go to actual educators, and government oversight that is weak at best, actively oppositional at worst.

What if teachers and parents worked together to combat the actual enemy. What if instead of a million threads on here about how "parents don't respect what I do" or "teachers complain to much" or whatever, we worked together to actually deal with these problems. Just a suggestion.

+1

[Anonymous]

Many teachers are incompetent, but are protected.

We need an effective merit system and competency testing to get rid of the bad teachers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Many teachers are incompetent, but are protected.

We need an effective merit system and competency testing to get rid of the bad teachers.

The professions that I can think of that have the harshest weed out periods early career are also the best paid. Are you willing to pay teachers like Goldman Sachs pays its associates? Should a middle school teacher who has made it through your testing be paid like lawyer who has made it through to partner?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many teachers are incompetent, but are protected.

We need an effective merit system and competency testing to get rid of the bad teachers.

The professions that I can think of that have the harshest weed out periods early career are also the best paid. Are you willing to pay teachers like Goldman Sachs pays its associates? Should a middle school teacher who has made it through your testing be paid like lawyer who has made it through to partner?

Goldman Sach’s HR strategies doesn’t solve DC school problems. PP was correct. Poor teachers should be weeded out. Similarly, toxic parents should be managed such that they can’t derail classes. The administration should focus on hiring and retaining good teachers and working with collaborative, invested parents. That’s the only way to make progress for these kids, whose futures should be what’s at stake

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many teachers are incompetent, but are protected.

We need an effective merit system and competency testing to get rid of the bad teachers.

The professions that I can think of that have the harshest weed out periods early career are also the best paid. Are you willing to pay teachers like Goldman Sachs pays its associates? Should a middle school teacher who has made it through your testing be paid like lawyer who has made it through to partner?

Also no testing. The bottom line should be “do you care?” There’s no test that can measure that. Teachers that don’t care should move into professions they do care about. No more pointless paperwork

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many teachers are incompetent, but are protected.

We need an effective merit system and competency testing to get rid of the bad teachers.

The professions that I can think of that have the harshest weed out periods early career are also the best paid. Are you willing to pay teachers like Goldman Sachs pays its associates? Should a middle school teacher who has made it through your testing be paid like lawyer who has made it through to partner?

Also no testing. The bottom line should be “do you care?” There’s no test that can measure that. Teachers that don’t care should move into professions they do care about. No more pointless paperwork

About the pointless paperwork - teachers, is it mostly data gathering or special ed paperwork that takes so much time?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many teachers are incompetent, but are protected.

We need an effective merit system and competency testing to get rid of the bad teachers.

The professions that I can think of that have the harshest weed out periods early career are also the best paid. Are you willing to pay teachers like Goldman Sachs pays its associates? Should a middle school teacher who has made it through your testing be paid like lawyer who has made it through to partner?

Goldman Sach’s HR strategies doesn’t solve DC school problems. PP was correct. Poor teachers should be weeded out. Similarly, toxic parents should be managed such that they can’t derail classes. The administration should focus on hiring and retaining good teachers and working with collaborative, invested parents. That’s the only way to make progress for these kids, whose futures should be what’s at stake

And replaced with what? Places that weed out can do so because the pay enough to hire far more people than they can retain 7 years down the line. Everyone involved knows it, but the pay makes the risk worthwhile.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many teachers are incompetent, but are protected.

We need an effective merit system and competency testing to get rid of the bad teachers.

The professions that I can think of that have the harshest weed out periods early career are also the best paid. Are you willing to pay teachers like Goldman Sachs pays its associates? Should a middle school teacher who has made it through your testing be paid like lawyer who has made it through to partner?

Goldman Sach’s HR strategies doesn’t solve DC school problems. PP was correct. Poor teachers should be weeded out. Similarly, toxic parents should be managed such that they can’t derail classes. The administration should focus on hiring and retaining good teachers and working with collaborative, invested parents. That’s the only way to make progress for these kids, whose futures should be what’s at stake

And replaced with what? Places that weed out can do so because the pay enough to hire far more people than they can retain 7 years down the line. Everyone involved knows it, but the pay makes the risk worthwhile.

Replaced with good teachers. Good teachers should be paid enough to attract and retain them

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many teachers are incompetent, but are protected.

We need an effective merit system and competency testing to get rid of the bad teachers.

The professions that I can think of that have the harshest weed out periods early career are also the best paid. Are you willing to pay teachers like Goldman Sachs pays its associates? Should a middle school teacher who has made it through your testing be paid like lawyer who has made it through to partner?

Also no testing. The bottom line should be “do you care?” There’s no test that can measure that. Teachers that don’t care should move into professions they do care about. No more pointless paperwork

No. I’ve met plenty of ineffective and inefficient teachers who really do care. No other job gets paid for “caring”. Most workers get paid for results and need to show evidence thereof.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think this video is an important reminder for parents and administrators

https://fb.watch/hcxdi1BUVj/?mibextid=0LFGlp

Largely because people in the private sector work far more hours.

The "extra hours for free" and "unpaid overtime" comments make me roll my eyes. Do teachers realize that other professionals are classified as "exempt" and do not get paid overtime? "Overtime" is a concept for non-exempt employees.

Oh, and summers? MCPS pays teachers for spending time on workshops, etc. Is that not "overtime"?

Back to add, and union protection? Other professionals do not have this.

That's because they don't need it. Only people with crappy jobs need unions.

You are really over the top. You really have no idea how other salaried professionals live and work.

I bet you have toilet paper and functioning bathrooms and soap. I bet you don’t have rodent and insect infestations in your workplace. I bet you have heating and a/c that works.

Do other professionals have to purchase their own office supplies, and supplies for others?

I just did a replenish on classroom supplies: paper, spare pens/pencils, dry erase markers, tissue, hand sanitizer, cleaning wipes. I dropped another $45 on my classroom. I’ll do it again in a couple months.

No, my high school does not allow us to ask parents.

Yes, they do. Lady, I had to buy my own laptop for my job. It cost more than $45.

Do teachers need like a teacher-only slack or something to talk about this stuff? These are just random job complaints. We all have them. I complain about them to my colleagues and my spouse.

Also, the amount of money I have spent on providing classroom supplies to my kids' schools over the years... it's a lot. I've bought art supplies and blocks and cleaning supplies and tissues and paper and pencils. I've helped by new rugs, contributed to funds for smart boards, paid for snacks. All of it. I get your HS apparently says you can't ask parents, which is weird, but most parents buy stuff like this for classrooms all the time. I got a note that there's a lot of runny noses in my kid's classroom this time a year and just grabbed a box of tissue and threw it in my kid's backpack this morning. My kid doesn't have a runny nose, but whatever I can do.

When I need supplies for work that my office won't pay for, no one just brings them to me! Ever.

The thing is, those aren't just for the teacher. The teacher has X number of students using whatever is brought in. You buy what you need for the office, but do you also buy things for 25 other people?

That's what really got to me with DH teaching. We would send our own kids with their supplies, plus extra when needed. Dh was also buying supplies for his students. It had to stop, we couldn't afford it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many teachers are incompetent, but are protected.

We need an effective merit system and competency testing to get rid of the bad teachers.

The professions that I can think of that have the harshest weed out periods early career are also the best paid. Are you willing to pay teachers like Goldman Sachs pays its associates? Should a middle school teacher who has made it through your testing be paid like lawyer who has made it through to partner?

Strawman argument.

Incompetent teachers should not be teaching, nor paid for work they are unqualified to do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many teachers are incompetent, but are protected.

We need an effective merit system and competency testing to get rid of the bad teachers.

The professions that I can think of that have the harshest weed out periods early career are also the best paid. Are you willing to pay teachers like Goldman Sachs pays its associates? Should a middle school teacher who has made it through your testing be paid like lawyer who has made it through to partner?

Also no testing. The bottom line should be “do you care?” There’s no test that can measure that. Teachers that don’t care should move into professions they do care about. No more pointless paperwork

No. I’ve met plenty of ineffective and inefficient teachers who really do care. No other job gets paid for “caring”. Most workers get paid for results and need to show evidence thereof. [/quote

Bottom line. If you don’t care, you probably shouldn’t be a teacher. Should there be other criteria? Yes. But let’s start with the very bottom

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid’s teachers make more money than I do and get better benefits. I very much appreciate them, am always polite, do not try to take their time or make their lives harder. But this idea that I somehow inadequately appreciate teachers is weird to me. Or the idea that I owe them lots of gift cards or gifts. I always make a point of sending thank you cards and, if it is in budget, a target gift card. Beyond that I really don’t think anything else should be expected of me as a parent.

Just how appreciative do I need to be? I am honestly not that appreciated in my job.

+10

Teacher here, who posted above about AP workloads. I don’t need appreciation. I don’t expect it at holidays or at the end of the year. I do appreciate thank you letters when I write college recommendations, but I know not to expect them since they come about 2-5% of the time.

I’d be happy if I can just get some respect. That might look like not calling my job “easy” and telling me to appreciate my summers off. Those 4-5 weeks aren’t much of a trade-off for the grueling 60-70 hour weeks throughout the year.

Nobody does that. No one.

oh please-they do!!!

But dii ok you get that the jerks who say teachers jobs are easy or “enjoy your summers off” also put other people down for their jobs. I work in marketing, I make 85k a year, I work long hours for some people who are very full of themselves (lawyers). They all think my job is super easy and that anyone can do it, in part because they don’t understand that like 70% of my job is trying to make them happy which is impossible. I’ve heard any manner of snide comments from not just people I meet but people I actually work with about how my job is easy or is just sitting around resizing photos or something. I also do several client retreats a year and people act like this is done kind of relaxing vacation for me (“enjoy your vacation”) because they don’t understand that while the lawyers are out to dinner with clients I’m sitting in my hotel room until 1am collating handouts and finalizing the power point the partners will claim credit for in the morning. And while I’m on these “trips” my DH is pulling double duty at home and I miss my kids.

Is my job as important or necessary as a teacher’s? No, I realize that. But I work very hard, am not particularly well compensated, get treated not great by a bunch of people who make WAY more than me (and more even than the go consultants who do make dumb curriculum decisions that impact teachers) and regularly feel pretty underappreciated.

But no one ever asks “Why does no one acknowledge how overworked marketing professionals are?” And I wouldn’t ask that either, it’s silly. I chose this dumb profession and this dumb job, and while I fantasize about doing something else, the money isn’t horrible for someone with a BA and I get a good employee match on my 401k.

Work is work. Teachers are not uniquely beleaguered and they are NOT underappreciated. I appreciate my kids teachers everyday. Of course there are people who are going to put it down— the world is full of arrogant jerks who don’t think anyone making less than 500k/yr (and especially anyone in a female-dominated profession) is worthwhile. Welcome to the club.

There is a big difference between you and a teacher - you can move up, get more responsibility, get more prestige. Teachers can't - you live at the bottom of the barrel in the educational system, and it never gets any better no matter how hard you work or how good you get. I'm not suggesting teachers need more appreciation or even more money - they don't, actually. What they need is for people to recognize that the problem with the teacher shortage is not that we need we need better working conditions. We need respect from administration, we need some voice in the system. I found my experience as a teacher demeaning and generally bad for my self-esteem. I left for a job with one half the pay and was much happier.

Teachers can become principals, administrators, etc. they are definitely not stuck.

No, this is a misconception. First, administrator and principal is the same thing, but it's not a promotion from teaching. One has to get a whole new graduate degree. After getting the degree, a teacher can apply for Assistant Principal positions. If they get one, then they have to spend at least 5 years as AP before applying for a principal job. A lot of people never make it to principal. It's definitely not about being a good teacher, that's for sure, and not something you can get moved up to just by working hard and being good at your job.

Ok but I’m the marketing pro from earlier and do you understand the same career trajectory is also true for me? I work at a law firm. I’m never going to become a partner here. In theory I could become like a CMO, but I’d almost certainly have to get a masters, and in my experience many of the CMOs also have JDs. I could go work in a different industry but I’d lose the value if all my industry knowledge that way. There are lateral moves I can make, into business development maybe, but these don’t come with huge pay increases. There are firms that pay fir my role or where I could move into a slightly more senior position, but realistically the most I’m going to make in my career is around 140k, and that’s with a lot of seniority and probably towards the end of my career. A colleague of mine jokes that eventually they just keep changing your title but you never get raises beyond COLA and it’s not untrue.

I think the person upthread who said some teachers overestimate the pay and other rewards in professional jobs requiring a BA, outside of teaching, was right. Most people I know who make more that 150k and work reasonable hours have graduate degrees. It’s really not that common. I also know lots of people who make this much but still work very long hours.

I see what us challenging about being a teacher and I don’t know if I could do it. Being on your feet all day, the lack of breaks, being responsible for that many kids at once, having so much of your curriculum dictated by others, the way teachers are evaluated. I get it— it’s a hard job and as I said, I really appreciate what teachers do. I also have done actual sense of the job, since I have kids in school, plus I once was a kid in school.

I guarantee you none of my kid’s teachers have any clue what my job is or what is hard about it or how I am treated. I’m sure it looks cushy from the outside because I do get to WFH sometimes (though that is definitely a new phenomenon since Covid and is very curtailed since return to office). My point is: it’s not. I’m not making 150k to just sit around and have two meetings and write 10 emails a day. I don’t get treated great by my mosses and I don’t feel appreciated by society at all.

And I think my experience is pretty average for parents. There are some who have it worse and some who have it better. I don’t think teachers are uniquely underappreciated or disrespected, and in some ways you are much more appreciated and respected than many of the parents of the kids you teach.

DP; you just seem to really hate your job and want to make this thread about you

That's the point though. This thread is actually just about teachers who hate their jobs and want to complain about them, but in the guise of "parents don't appreciate us enough." Like there are teachers on this thread who are acting like teaching is the WORST POSSIBLE JOB when it very clearly is not.

This thread is just a laundry list of things teachers find annoying about their jobs and some are valid and some less so. I don't get what the point is, really.

Take a look at the entirety of this thread. Teachers are trying to illustrate what the job is like, and posters simply respond with either “it’s actually an easy job” or “others have it harder.” Few posters have said “we see what you’re saying and get it.”

You want solidarity? Then accept that we can have it hard, too. That’s it.

As for complaining, I have posted on this thread several times and not once have I complained. As for “worst job possible” (I refuse to use your caps), nobody has said that. Nobody. Let’s not exaggerate. Teachers HAVE tried to get people to understand exactly how hard it is, a point many have refused to accept.

What's unique about teachers is the endless whining. Sure, some jobs are better and others are worse, but you don't hear those other professionals comp!ain as much. Only teachers always whine about how they're the biggest victims of them all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid’s teachers make more money than I do and get better benefits. I very much appreciate them, am always polite, do not try to take their time or make their lives harder. But this idea that I somehow inadequately appreciate teachers is weird to me. Or the idea that I owe them lots of gift cards or gifts. I always make a point of sending thank you cards and, if it is in budget, a target gift card. Beyond that I really don’t think anything else should be expected of me as a parent.

Just how appreciative do I need to be? I am honestly not that appreciated in my job.

+10

Teacher here, who posted above about AP workloads. I don’t need appreciation. I don’t expect it at holidays or at the end of the year. I do appreciate thank you letters when I write college recommendations, but I know not to expect them since they come about 2-5% of the time.

I’d be happy if I can just get some respect. That might look like not calling my job “easy” and telling me to appreciate my summers off. Those 4-5 weeks aren’t much of a trade-off for the grueling 60-70 hour weeks throughout the year.

Nobody does that. No one.

oh please-they do!!!

But dii ok you get that the jerks who say teachers jobs are easy or “enjoy your summers off” also put other people down for their jobs. I work in marketing, I make 85k a year, I work long hours for some people who are very full of themselves (lawyers). They all think my job is super easy and that anyone can do it, in part because they don’t understand that like 70% of my job is trying to make them happy which is impossible. I’ve heard any manner of snide comments from not just people I meet but people I actually work with about how my job is easy or is just sitting around resizing photos or something. I also do several client retreats a year and people act like this is done kind of relaxing vacation for me (“enjoy your vacation”) because they don’t understand that while the lawyers are out to dinner with clients I’m sitting in my hotel room until 1am collating handouts and finalizing the power point the partners will claim credit for in the morning. And while I’m on these “trips” my DH is pulling double duty at home and I miss my kids.

Is my job as important or necessary as a teacher’s? No, I realize that. But I work very hard, am not particularly well compensated, get treated not great by a bunch of people who make WAY more than me (and more even than the go consultants who do make dumb curriculum decisions that impact teachers) and regularly feel pretty underappreciated.

But no one ever asks “Why does no one acknowledge how overworked marketing professionals are?” And I wouldn’t ask that either, it’s silly. I chose this dumb profession and this dumb job, and while I fantasize about doing something else, the money isn’t horrible for someone with a BA and I get a good employee match on my 401k.

Work is work. Teachers are not uniquely beleaguered and they are NOT underappreciated. I appreciate my kids teachers everyday. Of course there are people who are going to put it down— the world is full of arrogant jerks who don’t think anyone making less than 500k/yr (and especially anyone in a female-dominated profession) is worthwhile. Welcome to the club.

There is a big difference between you and a teacher - you can move up, get more responsibility, get more prestige. Teachers can't - you live at the bottom of the barrel in the educational system, and it never gets any better no matter how hard you work or how good you get. I'm not suggesting teachers need more appreciation or even more money - they don't, actually. What they need is for people to recognize that the problem with the teacher shortage is not that we need we need better working conditions. We need respect from administration, we need some voice in the system. I found my experience as a teacher demeaning and generally bad for my self-esteem. I left for a job with one half the pay and was much happier.

Teachers can become principals, administrators, etc. they are definitely not stuck.

No, this is a misconception. First, administrator and principal is the same thing, but it's not a promotion from teaching. One has to get a whole new graduate degree. After getting the degree, a teacher can apply for Assistant Principal positions. If they get one, then they have to spend at least 5 years as AP before applying for a principal job. A lot of people never make it to principal. It's definitely not about being a good teacher, that's for sure, and not something you can get moved up to just by working hard and being good at your job.

Ok but I’m the marketing pro from earlier and do you understand the same career trajectory is also true for me? I work at a law firm. I’m never going to become a partner here. In theory I could become like a CMO, but I’d almost certainly have to get a masters, and in my experience many of the CMOs also have JDs. I could go work in a different industry but I’d lose the value if all my industry knowledge that way. There are lateral moves I can make, into business development maybe, but these don’t come with huge pay increases. There are firms that pay fir my role or where I could move into a slightly more senior position, but realistically the most I’m going to make in my career is around 140k, and that’s with a lot of seniority and probably towards the end of my career. A colleague of mine jokes that eventually they just keep changing your title but you never get raises beyond COLA and it’s not untrue.

I think the person upthread who said some teachers overestimate the pay and other rewards in professional jobs requiring a BA, outside of teaching, was right. Most people I know who make more that 150k and work reasonable hours have graduate degrees. It’s really not that common. I also know lots of people who make this much but still work very long hours.

I see what us challenging about being a teacher and I don’t know if I could do it. Being on your feet all day, the lack of breaks, being responsible for that many kids at once, having so much of your curriculum dictated by others, the way teachers are evaluated. I get it— it’s a hard job and as I said, I really appreciate what teachers do. I also have done actual sense of the job, since I have kids in school, plus I once was a kid in school.

I guarantee you none of my kid’s teachers have any clue what my job is or what is hard about it or how I am treated. I’m sure it looks cushy from the outside because I do get to WFH sometimes (though that is definitely a new phenomenon since Covid and is very curtailed since return to office). My point is: it’s not. I’m not making 150k to just sit around and have two meetings and write 10 emails a day. I don’t get treated great by my mosses and I don’t feel appreciated by society at all.

And I think my experience is pretty average for parents. There are some who have it worse and some who have it better. I don’t think teachers are uniquely underappreciated or disrespected, and in some ways you are much more appreciated and respected than many of the parents of the kids you teach.

DP; you just seem to really hate your job and want to make this thread about you

That's the point though. This thread is actually just about teachers who hate their jobs and want to complain about them, but in the guise of "parents don't appreciate us enough." Like there are teachers on this thread who are acting like teaching is the WORST POSSIBLE JOB when it very clearly is not.

This thread is just a laundry list of things teachers find annoying about their jobs and some are valid and some less so. I don't get what the point is, really.

Take a look at the entirety of this thread. Teachers are trying to illustrate what the job is like, and posters simply respond with either “it’s actually an easy job” or “others have it harder.” Few posters have said “we see what you’re saying and get it.”

You want solidarity? Then accept that we can have it hard, too. That’s it.

As for complaining, I have posted on this thread several times and not once have I complained. As for “worst job possible” (I refuse to use your caps), nobody has said that. Nobody. Let’s not exaggerate. Teachers HAVE tried to get people to understand exactly how hard it is, a point many have refused to accept.

What's unique about teachers is the endless whining. Sure, some jobs are better and others are worse, but you don't hear those other professionals comp!ain as much. Only teachers always whine about how they're the biggest victims of them all.

Well, count me as another “victim” who will be quitting because of the workload. I’ll be following the dozen who quit last year, mostly because of the work load. At some point, the nation will have to evaluate how we treat teachers.

Now I’m off to work. It’s Saturday and I’ll be at it most of the day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid’s teachers make more money than I do and get better benefits. I very much appreciate them, am always polite, do not try to take their time or make their lives harder. But this idea that I somehow inadequately appreciate teachers is weird to me. Or the idea that I owe them lots of gift cards or gifts. I always make a point of sending thank you cards and, if it is in budget, a target gift card. Beyond that I really don’t think anything else should be expected of me as a parent.

Just how appreciative do I need to be? I am honestly not that appreciated in my job.

+10

Teacher here, who posted above about AP workloads. I don’t need appreciation. I don’t expect it at holidays or at the end of the year. I do appreciate thank you letters when I write college recommendations, but I know not to expect them since they come about 2-5% of the time.

I’d be happy if I can just get some respect. That might look like not calling my job “easy” and telling me to appreciate my summers off. Those 4-5 weeks aren’t much of a trade-off for the grueling 60-70 hour weeks throughout the year.

Nobody does that. No one.

oh please-they do!!!

But dii ok you get that the jerks who say teachers jobs are easy or “enjoy your summers off” also put other people down for their jobs. I work in marketing, I make 85k a year, I work long hours for some people who are very full of themselves (lawyers). They all think my job is super easy and that anyone can do it, in part because they don’t understand that like 70% of my job is trying to make them happy which is impossible. I’ve heard any manner of snide comments from not just people I meet but people I actually work with about how my job is easy or is just sitting around resizing photos or something. I also do several client retreats a year and people act like this is done kind of relaxing vacation for me (“enjoy your vacation”) because they don’t understand that while the lawyers are out to dinner with clients I’m sitting in my hotel room until 1am collating handouts and finalizing the power point the partners will claim credit for in the morning. And while I’m on these “trips” my DH is pulling double duty at home and I miss my kids.

Is my job as important or necessary as a teacher’s? No, I realize that. But I work very hard, am not particularly well compensated, get treated not great by a bunch of people who make WAY more than me (and more even than the go consultants who do make dumb curriculum decisions that impact teachers) and regularly feel pretty underappreciated.

But no one ever asks “Why does no one acknowledge how overworked marketing professionals are?” And I wouldn’t ask that either, it’s silly. I chose this dumb profession and this dumb job, and while I fantasize about doing something else, the money isn’t horrible for someone with a BA and I get a good employee match on my 401k.

Work is work. Teachers are not uniquely beleaguered and they are NOT underappreciated. I appreciate my kids teachers everyday. Of course there are people who are going to put it down— the world is full of arrogant jerks who don’t think anyone making less than 500k/yr (and especially anyone in a female-dominated profession) is worthwhile. Welcome to the club.

There is a big difference between you and a teacher - you can move up, get more responsibility, get more prestige. Teachers can't - you live at the bottom of the barrel in the educational system, and it never gets any better no matter how hard you work or how good you get. I'm not suggesting teachers need more appreciation or even more money - they don't, actually. What they need is for people to recognize that the problem with the teacher shortage is not that we need we need better working conditions. We need respect from administration, we need some voice in the system. I found my experience as a teacher demeaning and generally bad for my self-esteem. I left for a job with one half the pay and was much happier.

Teachers can become principals, administrators, etc. they are definitely not stuck.

No, this is a misconception. First, administrator and principal is the same thing, but it's not a promotion from teaching. One has to get a whole new graduate degree. After getting the degree, a teacher can apply for Assistant Principal positions. If they get one, then they have to spend at least 5 years as AP before applying for a principal job. A lot of people never make it to principal. It's definitely not about being a good teacher, that's for sure, and not something you can get moved up to just by working hard and being good at your job.

Ok but I’m the marketing pro from earlier and do you understand the same career trajectory is also true for me? I work at a law firm. I’m never going to become a partner here. In theory I could become like a CMO, but I’d almost certainly have to get a masters, and in my experience many of the CMOs also have JDs. I could go work in a different industry but I’d lose the value if all my industry knowledge that way. There are lateral moves I can make, into business development maybe, but these don’t come with huge pay increases. There are firms that pay fir my role or where I could move into a slightly more senior position, but realistically the most I’m going to make in my career is around 140k, and that’s with a lot of seniority and probably towards the end of my career. A colleague of mine jokes that eventually they just keep changing your title but you never get raises beyond COLA and it’s not untrue.

I think the person upthread who said some teachers overestimate the pay and other rewards in professional jobs requiring a BA, outside of teaching, was right. Most people I know who make more that 150k and work reasonable hours have graduate degrees. It’s really not that common. I also know lots of people who make this much but still work very long hours.

I see what us challenging about being a teacher and I don’t know if I could do it. Being on your feet all day, the lack of breaks, being responsible for that many kids at once, having so much of your curriculum dictated by others, the way teachers are evaluated. I get it— it’s a hard job and as I said, I really appreciate what teachers do. I also have done actual sense of the job, since I have kids in school, plus I once was a kid in school.

I guarantee you none of my kid’s teachers have any clue what my job is or what is hard about it or how I am treated. I’m sure it looks cushy from the outside because I do get to WFH sometimes (though that is definitely a new phenomenon since Covid and is very curtailed since return to office). My point is: it’s not. I’m not making 150k to just sit around and have two meetings and write 10 emails a day. I don’t get treated great by my mosses and I don’t feel appreciated by society at all.

And I think my experience is pretty average for parents. There are some who have it worse and some who have it better. I don’t think teachers are uniquely underappreciated or disrespected, and in some ways you are much more appreciated and respected than many of the parents of the kids you teach.

DP; you just seem to really hate your job and want to make this thread about you

That's the point though. This thread is actually just about teachers who hate their jobs and want to complain about them, but in the guise of "parents don't appreciate us enough." Like there are teachers on this thread who are acting like teaching is the WORST POSSIBLE JOB when it very clearly is not.

This thread is just a laundry list of things teachers find annoying about their jobs and some are valid and some less so. I don't get what the point is, really.

Take a look at the entirety of this thread. Teachers are trying to illustrate what the job is like, and posters simply respond with either “it’s actually an easy job” or “others have it harder.” Few posters have said “we see what you’re saying and get it.”

You want solidarity? Then accept that we can have it hard, too. That’s it.

As for complaining, I have posted on this thread several times and not once have I complained. As for “worst job possible” (I refuse to use your caps), nobody has said that. Nobody. Let’s not exaggerate. Teachers HAVE tried to get people to understand exactly how hard it is, a point many have refused to accept.

What's unique about teachers is the endless whining. Sure, some jobs are better and others are worse, but you don't hear those other professionals comp!ain as much. Only teachers always whine about how they're the biggest victims of them all.

I don't see people on here questioning how others do their jobs.

My lawyer did (or didn't do) X, Y, Z. Would you report them?

My doctor missed this many days of work. I want to know why.

Etc.

However, I do think teachers need to quit trying to explain their job. Just stop. People outside of the profession don't understand your job. They don't need to, either.

I see someone posted about their Saturday, working. So go do that if you NEED to. My partner won't be. Could they be marking? Sure. Always. We have family plans though so the job will wait. Nobody is going to die if the papers are given back later next week. Parents will complain - that's nothing new. Oh well. Advocate for a better situation for your child: Smaller classes, less of the teacher's time expected to be spent on whatever meeting someone called. Hire appropriate supports for students who need them. Etc.