If teachers are leaving left and right, is it the principal's fault?

[Anonymous]

Why aren’t there pre reqs for higher level classes? That only makes sense. If you have a C or below in a previous math, English, history class, why are those students allowed to move up a level?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I would love is a teacher who is brave enough to write an expose of FCPS. Maybe someone who is planning to quit anyway. I really don't think the general public has any clue what it's actually like these days in the "responsive classroom."

I've been expose-ing fcps on this board since I quit 10 years ago. It's pointless. The system is so broken there. Parents have no idea, and the county likes it that way. If you read through these forums you'll see many many teachers posting the same things I have been saying. It's not a secret. But it's so bureaucratic that nothing can be changed. The whole top-down structure where all the decisions are made by people who are basically politicians and haven't been in a classroom in 30 years, and teachers are powerless.

Not sure why you are targeting RC though - it's just one of a million programs that gets adopted for a while and then replaced with something new a few years later. It's one of the better programs FCPS has, actually.

I'm targeting RC because it's a trendy program that simply doesn't work. Kids with behavioral issues continue to disrupt the class because they know there are no consequences. Kids who really want to learn continue being ignored while the teacher deals with the troublemakers. Rinse and repeat. RC does no one any favors. Troublemakers should be immediately dealt with, with real consequences (missing recess, actually getting yelled at by the principal, parents called, etc.). Babying them along and trying to relate to them emotionally is a waste of time for everyone. Teachers shouldn't be expected to devote their time to soothing the troublemakers back into good behavior (which does not work) at the expense of the other kids who simply want to learn.

Parent of a rule following child who loves to learn here - my kid doesn't want you yelling at her peers, even if they're being a pain in the butt. She had a teacher like that and was terrified of her. It was her worst year at school ever. And my kid is the good kid. No one was yelling at her and being mean to her, but she couldn't handle the teeny tiny remote possibility of her teacher going off on her like she did other kids. Consider the stress you are causing other children when you yell at their peers.

Oh. Then I guess you'd prefer your rule-following, learning-loving child to be constantly distracted and interrupted by kids who refuse to behave. I'm sure she would enjoy not being able to hear or learn a thing because the teacher refuses to discipline the troublemakers. Let us know how that works out for her.

Refuses to or has no power to? There is a difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why aren’t there pre reqs for higher level classes? That only makes sense. If you have a C or below in a previous math, English, history class, why are those students allowed to move up a level?

It’s partly because their parents are trying to push them into those classes. Do you know how many times parents have told me, “Larla is smart, he’s just lazy”?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I would love is a teacher who is brave enough to write an expose of FCPS. Maybe someone who is planning to quit anyway. I really don't think the general public has any clue what it's actually like these days in the "responsive classroom."

I've been expose-ing fcps on this board since I quit 10 years ago. It's pointless. The system is so broken there. Parents have no idea, and the county likes it that way. If you read through these forums you'll see many many teachers posting the same things I have been saying. It's not a secret. But it's so bureaucratic that nothing can be changed. The whole top-down structure where all the decisions are made by people who are basically politicians and haven't been in a classroom in 30 years, and teachers are powerless.

Not sure why you are targeting RC though - it's just one of a million programs that gets adopted for a while and then replaced with something new a few years later. It's one of the better programs FCPS has, actually.

I'm targeting RC because it's a trendy program that simply doesn't work. Kids with behavioral issues continue to disrupt the class because they know there are no consequences. Kids who really want to learn continue being ignored while the teacher deals with the troublemakers. Rinse and repeat. RC does no one any favors. Troublemakers should be immediately dealt with, with real consequences (missing recess, actually getting yelled at by the principal, parents called, etc.). Babying them along and trying to relate to them emotionally is a waste of time for everyone. Teachers shouldn't be expected to devote their time to soothing the troublemakers back into good behavior (which does not work) at the expense of the other kids who simply want to learn.

Parent of a rule following child who loves to learn here - my kid doesn't want you yelling at her peers, even if they're being a pain in the butt. She had a teacher like that and was terrified of her. It was her worst year at school ever. And my kid is the good kid. No one was yelling at her and being mean to her, but she couldn't handle the teeny tiny remote possibility of her teacher going off on her like she did other kids. Consider the stress you are causing other children when you yell at their peers.

Let's just hope PP isn't a teacher, since they think that trying to relate to children emotionally is a "waste of time."

I don’t care if she relates to my kids emotionally. That’s not her job.

+1
Also, the PP was referring to the troublemakers. And I agree that it *is* a waste of time - time that should be devoted to the children who want to learn and who are behaving appropriately - to try and reason with disruptive kids. I'm not interested in my child's teacher taking time out of the day to coddle and jolly along some kid who is chronically disrupting the class. That teacher has a room full of kids who aren't being taught every time the teacher has to make time to deal with the troublemaker. No. Send that kid to the principal so that learning can continue.

Teachers haven’t been allowed to “send kids to the principal” for about 8-10 years now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why aren’t there pre reqs for higher level classes? That only makes sense. If you have a C or below in a previous math, English, history class, why are those students allowed to move up a level?

Because teachers were accused of being racist/sexist/whatever when we didn’t recommend kids move up to honors/AP/IB. It wasn’t “equitable” to track a kid. I sat in sooooo many meetings having to bring dozens of data points about why I didn’t think a child who got a D in algebra belonged in honors geometry, or a child who failed the math 7 SOL should be discouraged from skipping math 8/taking algebra. The county moved to open enrollment so every child could be “encouraged to reach their full potential.”

So now I have kids in my honors algebra with Ds, and sit in meetings trying to figure out “what I’m doing wrong” because it’s unfathomable that 6 kids in one honors class have a D.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why aren’t there pre reqs for higher level classes? That only makes sense. If you have a C or below in a previous math, English, history class, why are those students allowed to move up a level?

Because teachers were accused of being racist/sexist/whatever when we didn’t recommend kids move up to honors/AP/IB. It wasn’t “equitable” to track a kid. I sat in sooooo many meetings having to bring dozens of data points about why I didn’t think a child who got a D in algebra belonged in honors geometry, or a child who failed the math 7 SOL should be discouraged from skipping math 8/taking algebra. The county moved to open enrollment so every child could be “encouraged to reach their full potential.”

So now I have kids in my honors algebra with Ds, and sit in meetings trying to figure out “what I’m doing wrong” because it’s unfathomable that 6 kids in one honors class have a D.

That’s insane. In my kid’s private school, you can’t move up a level unless you have an A in the previous level. It encourages students to work hard if they want to move up. My son is just now getting to his first AP courses as a senior. I can’t imagine having students in that class who had low grades in previous levels. I’d be pissed as a teacher that they were allowed in. It changes the entire class when the teacher has to bend over backwards to help kids who don’t belong there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I would love is a teacher who is brave enough to write an expose of FCPS. Maybe someone who is planning to quit anyway. I really don't think the general public has any clue what it's actually like these days in the "responsive classroom."

I've been expose-ing fcps on this board since I quit 10 years ago. It's pointless. The system is so broken there. Parents have no idea, and the county likes it that way. If you read through these forums you'll see many many teachers posting the same things I have been saying. It's not a secret. But it's so bureaucratic that nothing can be changed. The whole top-down structure where all the decisions are made by people who are basically politicians and haven't been in a classroom in 30 years, and teachers are powerless.

Not sure why you are targeting RC though - it's just one of a million programs that gets adopted for a while and then replaced with something new a few years later. It's one of the better programs FCPS has, actually.

I'm targeting RC because it's a trendy program that simply doesn't work. Kids with behavioral issues continue to disrupt the class because they know there are no consequences. Kids who really want to learn continue being ignored while the teacher deals with the troublemakers. Rinse and repeat. RC does no one any favors. Troublemakers should be immediately dealt with, with real consequences (missing recess, actually getting yelled at by the principal, parents called, etc.). Babying them along and trying to relate to them emotionally is a waste of time for everyone. Teachers shouldn't be expected to devote their time to soothing the troublemakers back into good behavior (which does not work) at the expense of the other kids who simply want to learn.

Parent of a rule following child who loves to learn here - my kid doesn't want you yelling at her peers, even if they're being a pain in the butt. She had a teacher like that and was terrified of her. It was her worst year at school ever. And my kid is the good kid. No one was yelling at her and being mean to her, but she couldn't handle the teeny tiny remote possibility of her teacher going off on her like she did other kids. Consider the stress you are causing other children when you yell at their peers.

Let's just hope PP isn't a teacher, since they think that trying to relate to children emotionally is a "waste of time."

I don’t care if she relates to my kids emotionally. That’s not her job.

+1
Also, the PP was referring to the troublemakers. And I agree that it *is* a waste of time - time that should be devoted to the children who want to learn and who are behaving appropriately - to try and reason with disruptive kids. I'm not interested in my child's teacher taking time out of the day to coddle and jolly along some kid who is chronically disrupting the class. That teacher has a room full of kids who aren't being taught every time the teacher has to make time to deal with the troublemaker. No. Send that kid to the principal so that learning can continue.

Teachers haven’t been allowed to “send kids to the principal” for about 8-10 years now.

+1
I won’t send a student. The behavior has to be dangerous before I’ll send or ask for support.

ES Teacher

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I would love is a teacher who is brave enough to write an expose of FCPS. Maybe someone who is planning to quit anyway. I really don't think the general public has any clue what it's actually like these days in the "responsive classroom."

I've been expose-ing fcps on this board since I quit 10 years ago. It's pointless. The system is so broken there. Parents have no idea, and the county likes it that way. If you read through these forums you'll see many many teachers posting the same things I have been saying. It's not a secret. But it's so bureaucratic that nothing can be changed. The whole top-down structure where all the decisions are made by people who are basically politicians and haven't been in a classroom in 30 years, and teachers are powerless.

Not sure why you are targeting RC though - it's just one of a million programs that gets adopted for a while and then replaced with something new a few years later. It's one of the better programs FCPS has, actually.

I'm targeting RC because it's a trendy program that simply doesn't work. Kids with behavioral issues continue to disrupt the class because they know there are no consequences. Kids who really want to learn continue being ignored while the teacher deals with the troublemakers. Rinse and repeat. RC does no one any favors. Troublemakers should be immediately dealt with, with real consequences (missing recess, actually getting yelled at by the principal, parents called, etc.). Babying them along and trying to relate to them emotionally is a waste of time for everyone. Teachers shouldn't be expected to devote their time to soothing the troublemakers back into good behavior (which does not work) at the expense of the other kids who simply want to learn.

Parent of a rule following child who loves to learn here - my kid doesn't want you yelling at her peers, even if they're being a pain in the butt. She had a teacher like that and was terrified of her. It was her worst year at school ever. And my kid is the good kid. No one was yelling at her and being mean to her, but she couldn't handle the teeny tiny remote possibility of her teacher going off on her like she did other kids. Consider the stress you are causing other children when you yell at their peers.

Let's just hope PP isn't a teacher, since they think that trying to relate to children emotionally is a "waste of time."

I don’t care if she relates to my kids emotionally. That’s not her job.

Wow...it is actually but this statement says a lot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I would love is a teacher who is brave enough to write an expose of FCPS. Maybe someone who is planning to quit anyway. I really don't think the general public has any clue what it's actually like these days in the "responsive classroom."

I've been expose-ing fcps on this board since I quit 10 years ago. It's pointless. The system is so broken there. Parents have no idea, and the county likes it that way. If you read through these forums you'll see many many teachers posting the same things I have been saying. It's not a secret. But it's so bureaucratic that nothing can be changed. The whole top-down structure where all the decisions are made by people who are basically politicians and haven't been in a classroom in 30 years, and teachers are powerless.

Not sure why you are targeting RC though - it's just one of a million programs that gets adopted for a while and then replaced with something new a few years later. It's one of the better programs FCPS has, actually.

I'm targeting RC because it's a trendy program that simply doesn't work. Kids with behavioral issues continue to disrupt the class because they know there are no consequences. Kids who really want to learn continue being ignored while the teacher deals with the troublemakers. Rinse and repeat. RC does no one any favors. Troublemakers should be immediately dealt with, with real consequences (missing recess, actually getting yelled at by the principal, parents called, etc.). Babying them along and trying to relate to them emotionally is a waste of time for everyone. Teachers shouldn't be expected to devote their time to soothing the troublemakers back into good behavior (which does not work) at the expense of the other kids who simply want to learn.

Parent of a rule following child who loves to learn here - my kid doesn't want you yelling at her peers, even if they're being a pain in the butt. She had a teacher like that and was terrified of her. It was her worst year at school ever. And my kid is the good kid. No one was yelling at her and being mean to her, but she couldn't handle the teeny tiny remote possibility of her teacher going off on her like she did other kids. Consider the stress you are causing other children when you yell at their peers.

Well, I imagine teachers like parents aren’t perfect. No one *deliberately* yells.

I left teaching a few years ago, but if you think that teachers can spend over seven hours a day, 180 days a year, managing over 25 students and are not yelling every once in a while… Then you’re delusional.

I'm the parent you all are quoting and I was specifically referring to the person above who said that teachers and parents need to yell at kids in order to get them to listen.

Ah, I think she has to yell to be *heard.* The din in the classroom can be such that any one person speaking is drowned out. As Carlos Santana once said, Americans don’t know how to shut the duck up, and so no surprise that American kids are like this too, but it’s been getting worse over the last few years. They don’t know how to listen to another person speak.

Quite true. I see this as a teacher. I also have my own child who craves silence when she gets home from school. She reports that it’s just noisy, and that most of the day is filled with people talking over each other. She says her teacher shouts, but it’s only to be heard over her 30 classmates.

I get that teachers need to provide discipline, manage classrooms, etc. It’s getting harder and harder, however. Having high expectations for behavior is great, but increasingly students simply don’t care. There are fewer consequences for misbehavior now, and (from my years is experience) feel-good management techniques are often seen as “soft” by students who choose to be disruptive.

DP. Exactly.

My DC talked about this just last night. Said there are two kids who talk completely over the teacher. The kids are annoyed the teacher is annoyed but nothing happens to the two kids. I'm a teacher....I felt everything he was saying because it's all day in some way. Disruptive behaviors. We can only blame the pandemic to a certain extent. I'm thinking I won't be back next year and it has nothing to do with the admin they are great people and they care. Their hands are tied.

[Anonymous]

It’s not the pandemic. Poorly behaved kids were around before then. Kids act the same way when their parents come into school. I had a conference last week where a kindergarten back talked his mom the whole time in front of me. Mom held up her hand to smack the kid. That’s when I sent the kid next door to play with blocks in another class. I’ve had similar meetings before the pandemic.

[Anonymous]

It can also be very difficult parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why aren’t there pre reqs for higher level classes? That only makes sense. If you have a C or below in a previous math, English, history class, why are those students allowed to move up a level?

Because teachers were accused of being racist/sexist/whatever when we didn’t recommend kids move up to honors/AP/IB. It wasn’t “equitable” to track a kid. I sat in sooooo many meetings having to bring dozens of data points about why I didn’t think a child who got a D in algebra belonged in honors geometry, or a child who failed the math 7 SOL should be discouraged from skipping math 8/taking algebra. The county moved to open enrollment so every child could be “encouraged to reach their full potential.”

So now I have kids in my honors algebra with Ds, and sit in meetings trying to figure out “what I’m doing wrong” because it’s unfathomable that 6 kids in one honors class have a D.

That’s insane. In my kid’s private school, you can’t move up a level unless you have an A in the previous level. It encourages students to work hard if they want to move up. My son is just now getting to his first AP courses as a senior. I can’t imagine having students in that class who had low grades in previous levels. I’d be pissed as a teacher that they were allowed in. It changes the entire class when the teacher has to bend over backwards to help kids who don’t belong there.

Do private schools have to report demographic data to the state? Indicating how many SPED, ELL, and minorities are in AP classes? Probably not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's not just misbehavior that's the issue when it comes to students. In MS and HS, the 50% minimum grade and open enrollment mean that students are increasingly unprepared for higher-level classes as they move through the system.

They can't handle the class; they hog up a huge amount of our time trying to help them, usually to no avail because they're unable to help themselves and take initiative to catch up--and that's time we can't spend helping other students during the lesson; they refuse to go down to a level they can handle because of misplaced pride, and by the time they give up and decide to move down, that level may be full; we have to spend a lot of extra time dealing with their parents who are often clueless/in denial/unwilling to put their foot down; the parents sometimes make our lives difficult, insisting on things like changing to a different teacher, on us spending extensive amounts of one-on-one time with their kid after school because the world owes them something, on us coming up with "different methods" to teach their child...

And many of those who do pass have absurdly inflated grades that don't reflect their true performance, leading to problems in subsequent years.

+1000 Thank you for articulating so well problems I am having this year with my advanced classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I would love is a teacher who is brave enough to write an expose of FCPS. Maybe someone who is planning to quit anyway. I really don't think the general public has any clue what it's actually like these days in the "responsive classroom."

I've been expose-ing fcps on this board since I quit 10 years ago. It's pointless. The system is so broken there. Parents have no idea, and the county likes it that way. If you read through these forums you'll see many many teachers posting the same things I have been saying. It's not a secret. But it's so bureaucratic that nothing can be changed. The whole top-down structure where all the decisions are made by people who are basically politicians and haven't been in a classroom in 30 years, and teachers are powerless.

Not sure why you are targeting RC though - it's just one of a million programs that gets adopted for a while and then replaced with something new a few years later. It's one of the better programs FCPS has, actually.

I'm targeting RC because it's a trendy program that simply doesn't work. Kids with behavioral issues continue to disrupt the class because they know there are no consequences. Kids who really want to learn continue being ignored while the teacher deals with the troublemakers. Rinse and repeat. RC does no one any favors. Troublemakers should be immediately dealt with, with real consequences (missing recess, actually getting yelled at by the principal, parents called, etc.). Babying them along and trying to relate to them emotionally is a waste of time for everyone. Teachers shouldn't be expected to devote their time to soothing the troublemakers back into good behavior (which does not work) at the expense of the other kids who simply want to learn.

Parent of a rule following child who loves to learn here - my kid doesn't want you yelling at her peers, even if they're being a pain in the butt. She had a teacher like that and was terrified of her. It was her worst year at school ever. And my kid is the good kid. No one was yelling at her and being mean to her, but she couldn't handle the teeny tiny remote possibility of her teacher going off on her like she did other kids. Consider the stress you are causing other children when you yell at their peers.

Let's just hope PP isn't a teacher, since they think that trying to relate to children emotionally is a "waste of time."

I don’t care if she relates to my kids emotionally. That’s not her job.

+1
Also, the PP was referring to the troublemakers. And I agree that it *is* a waste of time - time that should be devoted to the children who want to learn and who are behaving appropriately - to try and reason with disruptive kids. I'm not interested in my child's teacher taking time out of the day to coddle and jolly along some kid who is chronically disrupting the class. That teacher has a room full of kids who aren't being taught every time the teacher has to make time to deal with the troublemaker. No. Send that kid to the principal so that learning can continue.

Teachers haven’t been allowed to “send kids to the principal” for about 8-10 years now.

+1000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why aren’t there pre reqs for higher level classes? That only makes sense. If you have a C or below in a previous math, English, history class, why are those students allowed to move up a level?

Because teachers were accused of being racist/sexist/whatever when we didn’t recommend kids move up to honors/AP/IB. It wasn’t “equitable” to track a kid. I sat in sooooo many meetings having to bring dozens of data points about why I didn’t think a child who got a D in algebra belonged in honors geometry, or a child who failed the math 7 SOL should be discouraged from skipping math 8/taking algebra. The county moved to open enrollment so every child could be “encouraged to reach their full potential.”

So now I have kids in my honors algebra with Ds, and sit in meetings trying to figure out “what I’m doing wrong” because it’s unfathomable that 6 kids in one honors class have a D.

My current English honors class would still be very diverse if I could just get the kids who performed “below basic” on reading comprehension and writing tests AND who have a D or below in the class to move down a level. Instead, i am pressured by admin to do anything I can to help the students “falling behind.”