Urgent Care- Unauthorized Pregnancy Test

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can’t believe this thread. It’s standard of care period. If you don’t want full standard of care don’t go to a medical professional.

But many patients today think medicine is like a buffet - you pick and choose what you want. It’s disheartening, really. Especially since I’d venture to guess 99.9% have absolutely no medical training/knowledge.

So many doctors since forever think they’re god and have an unqualified right to disregard a patient’s express wishes. It’s disheartening really. The patient always has the right to say no to something being done to their own body. I’m sorry, it’s hard to accept apparently. They have the right to make a dumb decision about it. Not you. Patch them up in the ER and kick them out as soon as you can. That is your right. But you don’t have the right to batter them, which is what you’re doing if you do anything they have told you they do not consent to.

You sign a consent to be treated in the ER, when you sign in. If you don't sign it, and you're walking and talking and able to say you don't want to sign it, you're probably not getting treated. You're right- no one has the right to do medical tests on you that you don't want. But we aren't talking about you coming in, getting an IV and some basic blood and urine and then talking about whether or not we are going to do a procedure, or a scan, or anything more involved. Lots of patients decide they don't want that MRI, or they don't want that scope. You can absolutely refuse that, and we will discharge you and it will be heavily documented, with your signature all over the place that you are leaving against medical advice. Totally fine. But you're saying you don't even want the basic blood/urine stuff done to get us started. So why come?

Because no pregnancy test is needed to know that a person celibate for many months or years is not pregnant, and we’re sick to death of being presumed to be liars because we have uteruses.

I assume everyone is a liar in the ER and it has nothing to do with being male or female! And I'm sure most of the lies aren't intentional, but people aren't focused on that skin mole they had removed 30 years ago when they say they have no past surgical history. People just glaze over the details they've decided aren't relevant for what they're being seen for. Do me a favor and let me decide what's relevant. Like don't tell me your child has no past medical history when she clearly has Down Syndrome. It's awkward and it wastes time, and it doesn't help when you say "but that has nothing to do with why we are here". Again- if you want my help, let me decide that.

In most cases, I agree with you that the medical professional needs to be trusted to figure out what details are important for treatment. Occasionally, however, the "standard set of questions" needs to be tossed aside when there is an emergency. I went into the ER for a displaced radial fracture with compromised circulation, and the ER doc started asking me about when my last pap smear had been, whether I had had a flu shot, and about my international travel history. None of that was necessary to know in the moment. I needed emergency surgery to save my hand, not a pap smear or flu shot.

DP

So wait -- the ED doc knew there needed to be immediate surgery, and they were going to do it themselves but decided to wait and talk to you a bit first before whipping out a scalpel?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can’t believe this thread. It’s standard of care period. If you don’t want full standard of care don’t go to a medical professional.

But many patients today think medicine is like a buffet - you pick and choose what you want. It’s disheartening, really. Especially since I’d venture to guess 99.9% have absolutely no medical training/knowledge.

So many doctors since forever think they’re god and have an unqualified right to disregard a patient’s express wishes. It’s disheartening really. The patient always has the right to say no to something being done to their own body. I’m sorry, it’s hard to accept apparently. They have the right to make a dumb decision about it. Not you. Patch them up in the ER and kick them out as soon as you can. That is your right. But you don’t have the right to batter them, which is what you’re doing if you do anything they have told you they do not consent to.

You sign a consent to be treated in the ER, when you sign in. If you don't sign it, and you're walking and talking and able to say you don't want to sign it, you're probably not getting treated. You're right- no one has the right to do medical tests on you that you don't want. But we aren't talking about you coming in, getting an IV and some basic blood and urine and then talking about whether or not we are going to do a procedure, or a scan, or anything more involved. Lots of patients decide they don't want that MRI, or they don't want that scope. You can absolutely refuse that, and we will discharge you and it will be heavily documented, with your signature all over the place that you are leaving against medical advice. Totally fine. But you're saying you don't even want the basic blood/urine stuff done to get us started. So why come?

Because no pregnancy test is needed to know that a person celibate for many months or years is not pregnant, and we’re sick to death of being presumed to be liars because we have uteruses.

I assume everyone is a liar in the ER and it has nothing to do with being male or female! And I'm sure most of the lies aren't intentional, but people aren't focused on that skin mole they had removed 30 years ago when they say they have no past surgical history. People just glaze over the details they've decided aren't relevant for what they're being seen for. Do me a favor and let me decide what's relevant. Like don't tell me your child has no past medical history when she clearly has Down Syndrome. It's awkward and it wastes time, and it doesn't help when you say "but that has nothing to do with why we are here". Again- if you want my help, let me decide that.

In most cases, I agree with you that the medical professional needs to be trusted to figure out what details are important for treatment. Occasionally, however, the "standard set of questions" needs to be tossed aside when there is an emergency. I went into the ER for a displaced radial fracture with compromised circulation, and the ER doc started asking me about when my last pap smear had been, whether I had had a flu shot, and about my international travel history. None of that was necessary to know in the moment. I needed emergency surgery to save my hand, not a pap smear or flu shot.

DP

So wait -- the ED doc knew there needed to be immediate surgery, and they were going to do it themselves but decided to wait and talk to you a bit first before whipping out a scalpel?

Well, not quite.

The ER doc was essentially following a script rather than using his brain to evaluate the situation. Thankfully, I was moved to the OR in time to save my hand, but an orthopedic surgeon performed the surgery, not the ER doc.

[Anonymous]

How did this simple question make a 17 page thread? I don't want to know.

[Anonymous]

Because the simple answers were not acceptable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My DD22 was in and out of ER and urgent cares with gastrointestinal and menstrual issues over the course of two years. She got a pregnancy test run every time.

(Ended up with endometriosis diagnosis)

Please read what I wrote - The pregnancy test itself is not the issue, it is the lack of it being done without her knowledge. She should at least have the right to consent or decline. She would have consented of course, but should she not be allowed to have that right to decline? And she only found out about the test being run when she got her bill. It is an issue of rights, consent and principle.

[Anonymous]

Did she consent to Urgent Care treating her? If so, then she consented to the tests they needed to diagnosis and/or treat the symptoms she presented. Why go to Urgent Care if you have already figured out that the illness is caused by X and not Y? Did she tell them, just test my urine for elevated levels of X but not for elevated levels of Y? There is a whole range of tests performed on a urine sample. Unless she is a medical doctor, who should choose which of those tests are appropriate? Since she did not know the cause of her illness, the medical staff needed to do the appropriate tests for a treatment plan. I'm sure she signed a consent form before they even saw her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DD22 was in and out of ER and urgent cares with gastrointestinal and menstrual issues over the course of two years. She got a pregnancy test run every time.

(Ended up with endometriosis diagnosis)

Please read what I wrote - The pregnancy test itself is not the issue, it is the lack of it being done without her knowledge. She should at least have the right to consent or decline. She would have consented of course, but should she not be allowed to have that right to decline? And she only found out about the test being run when she got her bill. It is an issue of rights, consent and principle.

Why is it so hard to understand that consenting to "the usual tests" does in fact include consenting to a pregnancy test? If she didn't want to consent to/pay for specific usual tests (pregnancy is a very very usual test!) she needed to ask for more details or specifically state "I do not consent to pregnancy test." She absolutely has the right to decline standard of care, and she chose to consent to it without asking for details. She could have asked for details and consented or rejected care based on those details. She did not ask for details but agreed to the tests. She consented.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DD22 was in and out of ER and urgent cares with gastrointestinal and menstrual issues over the course of two years. She got a pregnancy test run every time.

(Ended up with endometriosis diagnosis)

Please read what I wrote - The pregnancy test itself is not the issue, it is the lack of it being done without her knowledge. She should at least have the right to consent or decline. She would have consented of course, but should she not be allowed to have that right to decline? And she only found out about the test being run when she got her bill. It is an issue of rights, consent and principle.

Omg the horse is dead. You weren’t even there. I can’t believe you are still claiming she didn’t consent. She DID!!!!!!!

[Anonymous]

At the end of the day this is about the doctor's right to make sure they don't inadvertently kill a baby. You might not be lying, but a LOT of people lie in the ED. And a lot of people will swear they aren't pregnant because of a vasectomy or BC or their tubes are tied only to be the rare failure.

What I feel like a lot of posters here don't realize is how incredibly impactful pregnancy is to a woman. If you ARE pregnant, their are treatments that can kill you. Even if you don't care about the baby, the mother's health can be greatly impacted by pregnancy as well.

It would have been negligent for them to NOT run an HCG on a 22 year old with abdominal pain. If they had not run the test but OP's daughter was in fact pregnant and something they did caused the baby to be injured, or perhaps OP's daughter crashed the next day because it was an ectopic, then the urgent care could be sued. Because it is a standard of care test that gives critical critical information about a woman's health. I had sinus surgery this spring and they ran a pregnancy test on my despite my tubes being out. Because the consequences of NOT KNOWING a woman is pregnant can easily be deadly, and the test is non invasive, there is basically no reason to not run it.

[Anonymous]

Your DD is prime sex age. She had gastro issues. I don’t think this is a big deal.

Have you never watched a tv show where the girl comes in swearing she never had sex and she is like 6 months pregnant???

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would not want to see a paternalistic doctor in any non emergency situation where I had a choice of doctors anyway. I’m sure doctors prefer not to see a patient who doesn’t just immediately consent to whatever tests and bills the doctor wants to do.

Hyperbolic, much? Nobody said immediately.

Some situations are going to permit more discussion than others, and some are not. Nobody is ever the only patient needing help.

Oh please. Yes let’s quibble over immediately, because doctors are known for being able to spend so much time in the room. How much deliberation are we really going to have here.

NP but the idea that there are evil patriarchal urgent care doctors who test sexually-active 22 year old women for pregnancy when they report with gastro problems, and super-cool feminist doctors who are like "who gives a crap if you're pregnant lol, you tell me what to do for your treatment because GRRL POWER" is kind of cracking me up.

Right. It’s so ridiculous it’s funny.
Also GIRL POWER poster is so focused on women giving their consent they can’t even see this is in the best interest of women.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a mom to two young adults girls, I would have been super pissed had they not run a pregnancy test for gastro symptoms. WTF? When they draw your blood, do they explain every single individual test? Of course not.

Exactly. They should tell her what they are doing, but people need to let the doctors treat the patients. It seems common sense to me to run a pregnancy test on a patient complaining of gastro issues. Could easily be an ectopic pregnancy or a miscarriage. People also define "having sex" differently. I got pregnant at 17 and we never even had intercourse.

How did this comment go unnoticed?
Maybe I’m slow. How does this work?

Not to get too graphic but he never penetrated (I hadn’t even had sex at the point) and finished on my groin area. I guess enough seamen made it inside and I got pregnant. Kid you not!!! It was awful. I must have been the most fertile woman in the world.

You were having a form of intercourse.

Isn’t insertion the actual definition of intercourse?
I would have also assumed you could not get pregnant this way.
Goes to show sometimes the patient just doesn’t know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Did she consent to Urgent Care treating her? If so, then she consented to the tests they needed to diagnosis and/or treat the symptoms she presented. Why go to Urgent Care if you have already figured out that the illness is caused by X and not Y? Did she tell them, just test my urine for elevated levels of X but not for elevated levels of Y? There is a whole range of tests performed on a urine sample. Unless she is a medical doctor, who should choose which of those tests are appropriate? Since she did not know the cause of her illness, the medical staff needed to do the appropriate tests for a treatment plan. I'm sure she signed a consent form before they even saw her.

This!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:At the end of the day this is about the doctor's right to make sure they don't inadvertently kill a baby. You might not be lying, but a LOT of people lie in the ED. And a lot of people will swear they aren't pregnant because of a vasectomy or BC or their tubes are tied only to be the rare failure.

What I feel like a lot of posters here don't realize is how incredibly impactful pregnancy is to a woman. If you ARE pregnant, their are treatments that can kill you. Even if you don't care about the baby, the mother's health can be greatly impacted by pregnancy as well.

It would have been negligent for them to NOT run an HCG on a 22 year old with abdominal pain. If they had not run the test but OP's daughter was in fact pregnant and something they did caused the baby to be injured, or perhaps OP's daughter crashed the next day because it was an ectopic, then the urgent care could be sued. Because it is a standard of care test that gives critical critical information about a woman's health. I had sinus surgery this spring and they ran a pregnancy test on my despite my tubes being out. Because the consequences of NOT KNOWING a woman is pregnant can easily be deadly, and the test is non invasive, there is basically no reason to not run it.

It strikes me as obvious that the same people saying that a pregnancy test shouldn't be done routinely in this situation are the same ones that would RUN to an attorney if anything went wrong during treatment or surgery, assuming the patient was, in fact, pregnant.

[Anonymous]

At this point *I* will pay the $37 if OP agrees to stop going on about it.