Friend just announced her junior DD has committed to play lax at a top school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I think it's funny how parents of athletes are twisting themselves into pretzels justifying this completely arbitrary advantage that athletes are given in the college admission process. Yes, your kid puts in long hours -- so do lot of other kids doing music, or theater, or science or dance at a high level. They don't get special admissions processes.

Yeah yeah, sports promotes community and school spirit. So do the performing arts. A tiny percentage of sports bring in money, most do not, yet they still get to recruit. You know that this glaring loophole in college admissions is the reason why the bribery scheme in the "Varsity Blues" case actually worked right? Take a picture of yourself on a rowing machine, call the kid a crew recruit -- voila, admission!

There are other unfairnesses in college admissions of course (legacies), but just because there are others doesn't mean that you can't acknowledge that this one is -- objectively -- unfair.

Totally agree. Parents seem completely oblivious to the water they’re swimming in. It is a bizarrely American thing to value the hard work put into athletics so much more than hard work in other areas. I’d take a kid who looked after his younger siblings after school every day over a kid who went to soccer practice every day because he wanted to win so badly.

This to me is it. It is bizarre -- the elevation of athletics over any other activity connected to the university community (arts, debate, chess, science, what have you). It is uniquely American.

To those saying it's just another thumb on the scale for something the university wants like URM or orchestra and they still have to achieve top grades and test scores, do you see those candidates getting a special recruitment procedure? Does the diversity officer of the school call up a URM candidate and say, "you've got the diversity and background we could really use here. You've got to get a GPA of __ and a SAT of __, but as long as you do, you've got a soft commitment from Larling U!" Does the orchestra director say "we're in need of good trombonist and you caught our eye. If you maintain a GPA of ___ and get SAT of ____ and keep at the trombone, you're in." It's not a plus factor putting them over other candidates with equal stats, it's a whole nother admission procedure.

The only other candidates I can think of that might get an entirely new path set up for them are development, Z-list, your dad donates a building, candidates. But that's all very hush-hush, cloak-and-dagger, rumor which the university wants to hide.

Here, it's all in the open, and everyone looks at it and is like "yeah, seems legit."

Can you not admit it's not just another factor, it's a special fast-track just for athletes? The emperor has no clothes!

This. I don't care that athletes get a bump for being in a time-intensive EC, just like any other EC that requires talent and dedication. It's the completely separate application track where admissions bows to the coaches that smells bad. It's also what made the whole "Varsity Blues" con work. And, even though they busted that one counselor, you know there are others pulling the same thing given the lack of checks and balances.

Exactly!

really? Can you explain the track to me?

Ummm, the one where a student athlete gets approached by a college athletic official and if the student commits to the college, then as long as student achieves above a certain floor in GPA and test scores, the college promises to admit that student? And then that happens, because the athletic department shepherds the application through?

Is that not what we've been talking about this whole time?

Gosh no Pollyanna, that is not the process.

Depending on the sport and the school, that is absolutely the process. It isn't the process for the types of sports (like women's lax) that are popular around here, but it is the process for football and basketball (with much more convincing required on the college's part)

+1 It is absolutely the only process by which a junior already knows where she is going to college. That's not going through the normal admissions process and sports being a strong EC in an application.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's funny how parents of athletes are twisting themselves into pretzels justifying this completely arbitrary advantage that athletes are given in the college admission process. Yes, your kid puts in long hours -- so do lot of other kids doing music, or theater, or science or dance at a high level. They don't get special admissions processes.

Yeah yeah, sports promotes community and school spirit. So do the performing arts. A tiny percentage of sports bring in money, most do not, yet they still get to recruit. You know that this glaring loophole in college admissions is the reason why the bribery scheme in the "Varsity Blues" case actually worked right? Take a picture of yourself on a rowing machine, call the kid a crew recruit -- voila, admission!

There are other unfairnesses in college admissions of course (legacies), but just because there are others doesn't mean that you can't acknowledge that this one is -- objectively -- unfair.

Totally agree. Parents seem completely oblivious to the water they’re swimming in. It is a bizarrely American thing to value the hard work put into athletics so much more than hard work in other areas. I’d take a kid who looked after his younger siblings after school every day over a kid who went to soccer practice every day because he wanted to win so badly.

This to me is it. It is bizarre -- the elevation of athletics over any other activity connected to the university community (arts, debate, chess, science, what have you). It is uniquely American.

To those saying it's just another thumb on the scale for something the university wants like URM or orchestra and they still have to achieve top grades and test scores, do you see those candidates getting a special recruitment procedure? Does the diversity officer of the school call up a URM candidate and say, "you've got the diversity and background we could really use here. You've got to get a GPA of __ and a SAT of __, but as long as you do, you've got a soft commitment from Larling U!" Does the orchestra director say "we're in need of good trombonist and you caught our eye. If you maintain a GPA of ___ and get SAT of ____ and keep at the trombone, you're in." It's not a plus factor putting them over other candidates with equal stats, it's a whole nother admission procedure.

The only other candidates I can think of that might get an entirely new path set up for them are development, Z-list, your dad donates a building, candidates. But that's all very hush-hush, cloak-and-dagger, rumor which the university wants to hide.

Here, it's all in the open, and everyone looks at it and is like "yeah, seems legit."

Can you not admit it's not just another factor, it's a special fast-track just for athletes? The emperor has no clothes!

This. I don't care that athletes get a bump for being in a time-intensive EC, just like any other EC that requires talent and dedication. It's the completely separate application track where admissions bows to the coaches that smells bad. It's also what made the whole "Varsity Blues" con work. And, even though they busted that one counselor, you know there are others pulling the same thing given the lack of checks and balances.

Exactly!

really? Can you explain the track to me?

Ummm, the one where a student athlete gets approached by a college athletic official and if the student commits to the college, then as long as student achieves above a certain floor in GPA and test scores, the college promises to admit that student? And then that happens, because the athletic department shepherds the application through?

Is that not what we've been talking about this whole time?

Gosh no Pollyanna, that is not the process.

Depending on the sport and the school, that is absolutely the process. It isn't the process for the types of sports (like women's lax) that are popular around here, but it is the process for football and basketball (with much more convincing required on the college's part)

+1 It is absolutely the only process by which a junior already knows where she is going to college. That's not going through the normal admissions process and sports being a strong EC in an application.

But that *junior* does not have a sure thing. Even when she submits her ED, a year from now there's a chance the school pulls the plug. It happens. If nothing else, she has to go the year without injury.

[Anonymous]

You’re not being a very good friend. Celebrate your friends and their kids and achievements! I say this as a mom to a very average kid who has friends recruited to a bunch of top schools.

[Anonymous]

Why are PPs so jealous of athletes? I mean, how can you begrudge someone's athletic success just because you don't have that ability? Crazy. This whole thread has a very "shut up and dribble" vibe.

[Anonymous]

For parents and students more academically inclined, I get it that it’s frustrating to see a kid with better than average grades and test scores, but not outstanding ones, get admitted to a very selective school based on sports. On the other hand, universities, like all institutions, have a complex constituency, and all must be supported. The reality is that athletes are oftentimes some of the most successful alumni, especially in business. In turn, this translates to donor dollars, which the institution can’t neglect. Ironically, it’s those sports-turn-business dollars that allow academics to work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's funny how parents of athletes are twisting themselves into pretzels justifying this completely arbitrary advantage that athletes are given in the college admission process. Yes, your kid puts in long hours -- so do lot of other kids doing music, or theater, or science or dance at a high level. They don't get special admissions processes.

Yeah yeah, sports promotes community and school spirit. So do the performing arts. A tiny percentage of sports bring in money, most do not, yet they still get to recruit. You know that this glaring loophole in college admissions is the reason why the bribery scheme in the "Varsity Blues" case actually worked right? Take a picture of yourself on a rowing machine, call the kid a crew recruit -- voila, admission!

There are other unfairnesses in college admissions of course (legacies), but just because there are others doesn't mean that you can't acknowledge that this one is -- objectively -- unfair.

Totally agree. Parents seem completely oblivious to the water they’re swimming in. It is a bizarrely American thing to value the hard work put into athletics so much more than hard work in other areas. I’d take a kid who looked after his younger siblings after school every day over a kid who went to soccer practice every day because he wanted to win so badly.

This to me is it. It is bizarre -- the elevation of athletics over any other activity connected to the university community (arts, debate, chess, science, what have you). It is uniquely American.

To those saying it's just another thumb on the scale for something the university wants like URM or orchestra and they still have to achieve top grades and test scores, do you see those candidates getting a special recruitment procedure? Does the diversity officer of the school call up a URM candidate and say, "you've got the diversity and background we could really use here. You've got to get a GPA of __ and a SAT of __, but as long as you do, you've got a soft commitment from Larling U!" Does the orchestra director say "we're in need of good trombonist and you caught our eye. If you maintain a GPA of ___ and get SAT of ____ and keep at the trombone, you're in." It's not a plus factor putting them over other candidates with equal stats, it's a whole nother admission procedure.

The only other candidates I can think of that might get an entirely new path set up for them are development, Z-list, your dad donates a building, candidates. But that's all very hush-hush, cloak-and-dagger, rumor which the university wants to hide.

Here, it's all in the open, and everyone looks at it and is like "yeah, seems legit."

Can you not admit it's not just another factor, it's a special fast-track just for athletes? The emperor has no clothes!

This. I don't care that athletes get a bump for being in a time-intensive EC, just like any other EC that requires talent and dedication. It's the completely separate application track where admissions bows to the coaches that smells bad. It's also what made the whole "Varsity Blues" con work. And, even though they busted that one counselor, you know there are others pulling the same thing given the lack of checks and balances.

Exactly!

really? Can you explain the track to me?

Ummm, the one where a student athlete gets approached by a college athletic official and if the student commits to the college, then as long as student achieves above a certain floor in GPA and test scores, the college promises to admit that student? And then that happens, because the athletic department shepherds the application through?

Is that not what we've been talking about this whole time?

Gosh no Pollyanna, that is not the process.

Depending on the sport and the school, that is absolutely the process. It isn't the process for the types of sports (like women's lax) that are popular around here, but it is the process for football and basketball (with much more convincing required on the college's part)

+1 It is absolutely the only process by which a junior already knows where she is going to college. That's not going through the normal admissions process and sports being a strong EC in an application.

You know this because you watched the Blind Side 20x?

That is not the process. She did not just have some athletic official approach her. That does.not.happen unless you are going to the NBA, NFL, World Cup.

You have cut out 90% of the process.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's funny how parents of athletes are twisting themselves into pretzels justifying this completely arbitrary advantage that athletes are given in the college admission process. Yes, your kid puts in long hours -- so do lot of other kids doing music, or theater, or science or dance at a high level. They don't get special admissions processes.

Yeah yeah, sports promotes community and school spirit. So do the performing arts. A tiny percentage of sports bring in money, most do not, yet they still get to recruit. You know that this glaring loophole in college admissions is the reason why the bribery scheme in the "Varsity Blues" case actually worked right? Take a picture of yourself on a rowing machine, call the kid a crew recruit -- voila, admission!

There are other unfairnesses in college admissions of course (legacies), but just because there are others doesn't mean that you can't acknowledge that this one is -- objectively -- unfair.

Totally agree. Parents seem completely oblivious to the water they’re swimming in. It is a bizarrely American thing to value the hard work put into athletics so much more than hard work in other areas. I’d take a kid who looked after his younger siblings after school every day over a kid who went to soccer practice every day because he wanted to win so badly.

This to me is it. It is bizarre -- the elevation of athletics over any other activity connected to the university community (arts, debate, chess, science, what have you). It is uniquely American.

To those saying it's just another thumb on the scale for something the university wants like URM or orchestra and they still have to achieve top grades and test scores, do you see those candidates getting a special recruitment procedure? Does the diversity officer of the school call up a URM candidate and say, "you've got the diversity and background we could really use here. You've got to get a GPA of __ and a SAT of __, but as long as you do, you've got a soft commitment from Larling U!" Does the orchestra director say "we're in need of good trombonist and you caught our eye. If you maintain a GPA of ___ and get SAT of ____ and keep at the trombone, you're in." It's not a plus factor putting them over other candidates with equal stats, it's a whole nother admission procedure.

The only other candidates I can think of that might get an entirely new path set up for them are development, Z-list, your dad donates a building, candidates. But that's all very hush-hush, cloak-and-dagger, rumor which the university wants to hide.

Here, it's all in the open, and everyone looks at it and is like "yeah, seems legit."

Can you not admit it's not just another factor, it's a special fast-track just for athletes? The emperor has no clothes!

This. I don't care that athletes get a bump for being in a time-intensive EC, just like any other EC that requires talent and dedication. It's the completely separate application track where admissions bows to the coaches that smells bad. It's also what made the whole "Varsity Blues" con work. And, even though they busted that one counselor, you know there are others pulling the same thing given the lack of checks and balances.

Exactly!

really? Can you explain the track to me?

Ummm, the one where a student athlete gets approached by a college athletic official and if the student commits to the college, then as long as student achieves above a certain floor in GPA and test scores, the college promises to admit that student? And then that happens, because the athletic department shepherds the application through?

Is that not what we've been talking about this whole time?

Gosh no Pollyanna, that is not the process.

Depending on the sport and the school, that is absolutely the process. It isn't the process for the types of sports (like women's lax) that are popular around here, but it is the process for football and basketball (with much more convincing required on the college's part)

+1 It is absolutely the only process by which a junior already knows where she is going to college. That's not going through the normal admissions process and sports being a strong EC in an application.

But that *junior* does not have a sure thing. Even when she submits her ED, a year from now there's a chance the school pulls the plug. It happens. If nothing else, she has to go the year without injury.

Also, i doubt somebody just approached her and said, hey wanna go to Harvard.

It's a very complex process to get recruited. There are showcases and emails and coaches calling the athletic department, then phone interviews and promises that turn into rejection. Then you go to a few more showcases, you reach out to more schools, you send them emails, you call assistant coaches. Your coaches reach out when you finally get a nibble, then you get the phone interview only to find out nope, not going to happen because they did 7 phone interviews that day and the 1 person that is better than you wants to verbally commit. But guess what, they don't tell you that for 3 weeks if they even have the courtesy to call you back, most just ghost you. So that school is out. So you start looking at other schools, and start the process over again.

All the while everybody asks you every week.. did you commit, where are you going, did you decide, did you get an offer, did the coach offer you... and no.they didn't, im not committed, nobody has offered me anything, and that happends at least 2 times and often 10 times before you "are committed".

Then you don't sign a letter of commitment until senior year ... so don't get injured, and every.single.year of college they can pull your scholarship.

[Anonymous]

What is the most sad about this is that you are no doubt passing on this perspective to your children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For parents and students more academically inclined, I get it that it’s frustrating to see a kid with better than average grades and test scores, but not outstanding ones, get admitted to a very selective school based on sports. On the other hand, universities, like all institutions, have a complex constituency, and all must be supported. The reality is that athletes are oftentimes some of the most successful alumni, especially in business. In turn, this translates to donor dollars, which the institution can’t neglect. Ironically, it’s those sports-turn-business dollars that allow academics to work.

But you know that 'sports-turn-business dollars allowing academics to work' only exists in the US. Is there a university system in any other country that gives preferential treatment to athletes?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For parents and students more academically inclined, I get it that it’s frustrating to see a kid with better than average grades and test scores, but not outstanding ones, get admitted to a very selective school based on sports. On the other hand, universities, like all institutions, have a complex constituency, and all must be supported. The reality is that athletes are oftentimes some of the most successful alumni, especially in business. In turn, this translates to donor dollars, which the institution can’t neglect. Ironically, it’s those sports-turn-business dollars that allow academics to work.

But you know that 'sports-turn-business dollars allowing academics to work' only exists in the US. Is there a university system in any other country that gives preferential treatment to athletes?

Are there countries that make as much lines on sports as the US? And who cares what other countries do?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For parents and students more academically inclined, I get it that it’s frustrating to see a kid with better than average grades and test scores, but not outstanding ones, get admitted to a very selective school based on sports. On the other hand, universities, like all institutions, have a complex constituency, and all must be supported. The reality is that athletes are oftentimes some of the most successful alumni, especially in business. In turn, this translates to donor dollars, which the institution can’t neglect. Ironically, it’s those sports-turn-business dollars that allow academics to work.

Do you have any basis for your assertion that former athletes are a large source of donations to universities? The former athletes I know just donate to athletics (you know booster clubs) which just feeds the machine that they came from.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why are PPs so jealous of athletes? I mean, how can you begrudge someone's athletic success just because you don't have that ability? Crazy. This whole thread has a very "shut up and dribble" vibe.

Nobody is jealous. In college I knew quite a few D1 athletes. It's not glamorous, nobody really cares. Unless you're a star player or a giant, nobody even knows you play a sport. The tennis, soccer, swim, lacrosse teams? Nobody is at their events or cares. And most athletes are NOT receiving any scholarship or it's partial. And as far as getting some cushy job after being a college athlete, that is another load of delusional b.s. Most former athletes are selling cars and insurance like the dimwits they are. A washed up college athlete. Wow, so impressive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sports crazy parents need to add up all the roster spaces at the top private colleges. Far less than lottery odds your kid is one of them. And all of teams give the nod to filthy rich families over random joe blow striver from the DMV. Talent is a secondary consideration.

I bet you all laugh and make fun of “dumb” poor people for wasting money on scratch off lottery tickets.

If your good not great athlete plays at “the next level” it’s prob going to be some podunk crap college nobody has ever heard of. And they’ll most likely quit the team after a year and transfer to the state university all their friends are at. I’ve seen this play out hundreds of times.

You think there are a lot of posters (any posters?) on the DCUM College and University forum who show up to post at all if their kid ends up at a “podunk crap college” for whatever reason? Is this your first time on DCUM?

Delusional strivers lie to themselves until the very end that their kid will con their way into a "T20" and/or play "at the next level." Well, for 99% of student-athletes, the next level is some backwater degree mill in some podunk town. I've seen it happen hundreds of times.

I’m sure this happens in some communities where sports are valued over academics and the parents are uneducated, and/or unsophisticated, and/or can only afford to send their kids to college with the help of an athletic scholarship. That community is very far removed from the communities where posters on this particular DCUM forum live. 90+% of the people here complaining about admissions hooks for athletes are p*ssed because an athletic UMC kid who attends the same school as the UMC poster’s child will be waltzing into an Ivy-level school as an athletic recruit while their little genius is “stuck” going to UVA, William & Mary or some other great but not as brag-worthy school. So, while you are welcome to mock whomever you please, I don’t know why you are addressing your mockery to this group.

Go add up all the current Ivy League student-athletes from the DMV, then subtract URMs, legacies and filthy rich. That is how many spots for random Joe Blows from the DMV you're talking about. I'd guess maybe a few dozen out of a couple million DMV kids? Again, most student-athletes end up degree mills. You're focusing on the handful who essentially win a lottery, while ignoring the big picture. You're probably some coach or schemer in the travel sports racket. Freeloading off selling false hope to delusional sports crazy parents who piss away every weekend for 10 years so their kid can end up playing in front of 10 people at Podunk College in Ghost town, USA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are PPs so jealous of athletes? I mean, how can you begrudge someone's athletic success just because you don't have that ability? Crazy. This whole thread has a very "shut up and dribble" vibe.

Nobody is jealous. In college I knew quite a few D1 athletes. It's not glamorous, nobody really cares. Unless you're a star player or a giant, nobody even knows you play a sport. The tennis, soccer, swim, lacrosse teams? Nobody is at their events or cares. And most athletes are NOT receiving any scholarship or it's partial. And as far as getting some cushy job after being a college athlete, that is another load of delusional b.s. Most former athletes are selling cars and insurance like the dimwits they are. A washed up college athlete. Wow, so impressive.

Can you provide the source that most former athletes are selling cars and insurance? As a former tennis recruit athlete at USC, I can tell you that all of the players on the tennis team while I was there went on to have successful professional careers making a sh_t load of money, myself included. That is because of the alumni network and boosters that give athletes an express lane to bypass everyone else.

The current roster of '21-'22 season, if you look them up ten years from now, it is almost certain that all of them will be very successful professionally and financially: https://usctrojans.com/sports/mens-tennis/roster

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Playing a sport at a level high enough to commit while maintaining grades, etc. deserves to be rewarded just as much as the kid who fiends 20 hours a week in the lab or practicing an instrument.

I think some of people's frustration with the process is that athletes are rewarded more than scientists and musicians. (Know any juniors who are biochemists or pianists who have been recruited?)

Musicians? Absolutely. Any other questions?