Tourist submersible missing on visit to Titanic

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone dies. At least vaporizing yourself in an experimental carbon fiber tube is a pretty unique and interesting way to go.

Vaporizing?

That implies heat. This sub was 10000 ft underwater in near freezing temperatures. Good luck vaporizing anything.

You must’ve studied science at trump university.

The immense pressure of water entering the capsule would pulverize any living matter in the sub. We are talking surface of the sun temps. Gone. Nothing left. Literally E=mC^2

Maybe a little PV=nRT too.

A lot of T

Exponentially increasing V = exponentially increasing T

Typo:
Exponentially increasing P = exponentially increasing T

Followed by...
decreasing V = decreasing T

PV = nRT doesn't describe this problem well since the ending volume would be hard to estimate. It's easier to use the potential energy on the surface of the hull.

The surface area of the carbon fiber hull was approximately 66 meters^2, the surface area of a cylinder 3m x 7m.

At a depth of 6,000 ft, the pressure on the hull is about 200 bar (one bar for every 10 meters)

That's 20 newtons/meter^2, or 1.32e9 newtons of pressure on the carbon fiber hull.

Assuming the hull collapses radially at a distance of 1.5m, that's about 2e9 newton meters, aka 2e9 joules.

1 ton of TNT contains roughly 4e9 joules.

It's unlikely that the hull collapse was perfect, but the energy of the implosion was the equivalent of detonating hundreds of pounds of TNT.

It explains the extremely high temps during implosions. At least momentarily.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I saw online that since the victims all perished when the vessel imploded that it is very likely none of them knew what hit them.

In other words, there was no time for their brains to even process that they were about to die.

That is a huge relief to hear since imagining them all trapped for days in a cold, dark vessel with disappearing oxygen and no food sounded like the epitome of the worst way to die.

Didn't James Cameron say that they were trying to surface when it imploded? They knew something was wrong and I'm sure they were quite aware they were going to die. But at least it was quick so probably not painful.

+1 hopefully

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with cusack that it’s telling how many governments and journalists rushed to the aid of this foolish party while hundreds of refugees sank in the Mediterranean. Guess poor lives don’t matter. We don’t send taxpayer funded rescue teams to mt Everest for lost climbers so Why is my money being spent in this recovery effort?

These are two incomparable things. The Titan involved an American thought to be trapped and running out of oxygen in a submarine for days off the North American coast.

That's different than a migrant boat capsizing off the coast of Greece or Italy. And they get migrant boats continuously and do rescues.

Loss of life is loss regardless of where in the world or who for sure, but you can't compare these 2 different things like it's the same.

+100

As Phil Leotardo once said, they are “apples and bowling balls”

+2

There are some real idiots responding in this thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree with cusack that it’s telling how many governments and journalists rushed to the aid of this foolish party while hundreds of refugees sank in the Mediterranean. Guess poor lives don’t matter. We don’t send taxpayer funded rescue teams to mt Everest for lost climbers so Why is my money being spent in this recovery effort?

I dunno why this keeps getting removed but the migrants were rescued by the yacht of a Mexican billionaire that happened to be nearby. When a boat sinks, there are moments, maybe hours to save folks and that is it. That is a bad comparison.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with cusack that it’s telling how many governments and journalists rushed to the aid of this foolish party while hundreds of refugees sank in the Mediterranean. Guess poor lives don’t matter. We don’t send taxpayer funded rescue teams to mt Everest for lost climbers so Why is my money being spent in this recovery effort?

I dunno why this keeps getting removed but the migrants were rescued by the yacht of a Mexican billionaire that happened to be nearby. When a boat sinks, there are moments, maybe hours to save folks and that is it. That is a bad comparison.

There is a duty to rescue at sea.

https://international-review.icrc.org/articles/duty-rescue-sea-peacetime-and-war-general-overview

The duty to rescue persons in distress at sea is a fundamental rule of international law. It has been incorporated in international treaties and forms the content of a norm of customary international law.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with cusack that it’s telling how many governments and journalists rushed to the aid of this foolish party while hundreds of refugees sank in the Mediterranean. Guess poor lives don’t matter. We don’t send taxpayer funded rescue teams to mt Everest for lost climbers so Why is my money being spent in this recovery effort?

I dunno why this keeps getting removed but the migrants were rescued by the yacht of a Mexican billionaire that happened to be nearby. When a boat sinks, there are moments, maybe hours to save folks and that is it. That is a bad comparison.

There is a duty to rescue at sea.

https://international-review.icrc.org/articles/duty-rescue-sea-peacetime-and-war-general-overview

The duty to rescue persons in distress at sea is a fundamental rule of international law. It has been incorporated in international treaties and forms the content of a norm of customary international law.

Point is they WERE rescued, coincidentally by a billionaire.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I saw online that since the victims all perished when the vessel imploded that it is very likely none of them knew what hit them.

In other words, there was no time for their brains to even process that they were about to die.

That is a huge relief to hear since imagining them all trapped for days in a cold, dark vessel with disappearing oxygen and no food sounded like the epitome of the worst way to die.

Didn't James Cameron say that they were trying to surface when it imploded? They knew something was wrong and I'm sure they were quite aware they were going to die. But at least it was quick so probably not painful.

+1 hopefully

LA Times has an article if you are interested.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am the first shark diver and so perhaps overly reckless (lol), but I can completely see the value in billionaires funding and participating in missions and exploration. Explorers almost always have had private funding or sponsors, from King Tut to Everest. These things are expensive and usually the sponsor wants to come along for at least part of the ride.

The technology used in underwater exploration can also be used by our military, and perhaps in the future in underwater civilizations. It makes more sense than building on Mars to me.

Also, I am sure the Coast Guard had very limited hope but we all still benefited from the experience they gained. Rescue forces need real life experience, and this is better experience than a drill would be. I don’t even think they deployed any divers. Scanning the ocean isn’t very dangerous in and of itself, or even all that different from an average day.

You lost me at “underwater civilizations.” What a silly statement.
And no, there is not much value gained from scanning the ocean surface for days on end.

Underwater habitats have existed since the 1970s. Catch up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with cusack that it’s telling how many governments and journalists rushed to the aid of this foolish party while hundreds of refugees sank in the Mediterranean. Guess poor lives don’t matter. We don’t send taxpayer funded rescue teams to mt Everest for lost climbers so Why is my money being spent in this recovery effort?

I dunno why this keeps getting removed but the migrants were rescued by the yacht of a Mexican billionaire that happened to be nearby. When a boat sinks, there are moments, maybe hours to save folks and that is it. That is a bad comparison.

There is a duty to rescue at sea.

https://international-review.icrc.org/articles/duty-rescue-sea-peacetime-and-war-general-overview

The duty to rescue persons in distress at sea is a fundamental rule of international law. It has been incorporated in international treaties and forms the content of a norm of customary international law.

Point is they WERE rescued, coincidentally by a billionaire.

A fraction were rescued, multiple hundreds are lost at sea - mostly women and children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone dies. At least vaporizing yourself in an experimental carbon fiber tube is a pretty unique and interesting way to go.

Vaporizing?

That implies heat. This sub was 10000 ft underwater in near freezing temperatures. Good luck vaporizing anything.

You must’ve studied science at trump university.

The immense pressure of water entering the capsule would pulverize any living matter in the sub. We are talking surface of the sun temps. Gone. Nothing left. Literally E=mC^2

Maybe a little PV=nRT too.

A lot of T

Exponentially increasing V = exponentially increasing T

Typo:
Exponentially increasing P = exponentially increasing T

Followed by...
decreasing V = decreasing T

It’s gruesome, but the Byford dolphin incident is as close as I can think of known outcome in somewhat similar circumstances. It was a decompressive, rather than a compressive incident, and it was from 9 atm to 1 atm. Other vessels have imploded, like the uss thresher, but no one survived and there is a lot of uncertainty about what really happened. Don’t read about Byford dolphin if you are at all squeamish. The titan sub imploded with an external pressure of 500 atm to 1 atm. It’s hard to wrap your mind around a reaction that happens magnitudes faster than human reaction.

My God. How did you come to know about this incident?

I took an ethics in engineering course as part of my mech engineering curriculum for undergrad. I posted earlier (like 30 pages ago) that we studied classic engineering mistakes. The Byford dolphin was not one that we spent a lot of time on, but was mentioned because it was just so awful. The design for the chambers was bad, prone to human error. The titan sub will definitely make the list of unethical engineering mistakes that cost lives.

Really fascinating. Would love to know what institution this was but realize it may be too close to identifying. Thanks for the knowledge!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone dies. At least vaporizing yourself in an experimental carbon fiber tube is a pretty unique and interesting way to go.

Vaporizing?

That implies heat. This sub was 10000 ft underwater in near freezing temperatures. Good luck vaporizing anything.

You must’ve studied science at trump university.

The immense pressure of water entering the capsule would pulverize any living matter in the sub. We are talking surface of the sun temps. Gone. Nothing left. Literally E=mC^2

Maybe a little PV=nRT too.

A lot of T

Exponentially increasing V = exponentially increasing T

Typo:
Exponentially increasing P = exponentially increasing T

Followed by...
decreasing V = decreasing T

It’s gruesome, but the Byford dolphin incident is as close as I can think of known outcome in somewhat similar circumstances. It was a decompressive, rather than a compressive incident, and it was from 9 atm to 1 atm. Other vessels have imploded, like the uss thresher, but no one survived and there is a lot of uncertainty about what really happened. Don’t read about Byford dolphin if you are at all squeamish. The titan sub imploded with an external pressure of 500 atm to 1 atm. It’s hard to wrap your mind around a reaction that happens magnitudes faster than human reaction.

My God. How did you come to know about this incident?

I took an ethics in engineering course as part of my mech engineering curriculum for undergrad. I posted earlier (like 30 pages ago) that we studied classic engineering mistakes. The Byford dolphin was not one that we spent a lot of time on, but was mentioned because it was just so awful. The design for the chambers was bad, prone to human error. The titan sub will definitely make the list of unethical engineering mistakes that cost lives.

Really fascinating. Would love to know what institution this was but realize it may be too close to identifying. Thanks for the knowledge!

DP. In my engineering curriculum these types of failure were covered during a risk analysis course.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with cusack that it’s telling how many governments and journalists rushed to the aid of this foolish party while hundreds of refugees sank in the Mediterranean. Guess poor lives don’t matter. We don’t send taxpayer funded rescue teams to mt Everest for lost climbers so Why is my money being spent in this recovery effort?

I dunno why this keeps getting removed but the migrants were rescued by the yacht of a Mexican billionaire that happened to be nearby. When a boat sinks, there are moments, maybe hours to save folks and that is it. That is a bad comparison.

There is a duty to rescue at sea.

https://international-review.icrc.org/articles/duty-rescue-sea-peacetime-and-war-general-overview

The duty to rescue persons in distress at sea is a fundamental rule of international law. It has been incorporated in international treaties and forms the content of a norm of customary international law.

Point is they WERE rescued, coincidentally by a billionaire.

A fraction were rescued, multiple hundreds are lost at sea - mostly women and children.

Right - so start a human trafficking thread. Anyone who wasn’t rescued in hours was done. What more is there to do. If y’all want to keep making the point then start a thread “why don’t migrants get as much attention as billionaires” and have at it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone dies. At least vaporizing yourself in an experimental carbon fiber tube is a pretty unique and interesting way to go.

Vaporizing?

That implies heat. This sub was 10000 ft underwater in near freezing temperatures. Good luck vaporizing anything.

You must’ve studied science at trump university.

The immense pressure of water entering the capsule would pulverize any living matter in the sub. We are talking surface of the sun temps. Gone. Nothing left. Literally E=mC^2

Maybe a little PV=nRT too.

A lot of T

Exponentially increasing V = exponentially increasing T

Typo:
Exponentially increasing P = exponentially increasing T

Followed by...
decreasing V = decreasing T

It’s gruesome, but the Byford dolphin incident is as close as I can think of known outcome in somewhat similar circumstances. It was a decompressive, rather than a compressive incident, and it was from 9 atm to 1 atm. Other vessels have imploded, like the uss thresher, but no one survived and there is a lot of uncertainty about what really happened. Don’t read about Byford dolphin if you are at all squeamish. The titan sub imploded with an external pressure of 500 atm to 1 atm. It’s hard to wrap your mind around a reaction that happens magnitudes faster than human reaction.

My God. How did you come to know about this incident?

I took an ethics in engineering course as part of my mech engineering curriculum for undergrad. I posted earlier (like 30 pages ago) that we studied classic engineering mistakes. The Byford dolphin was not one that we spent a lot of time on, but was mentioned because it was just so awful. The design for the chambers was bad, prone to human error. The titan sub will definitely make the list of unethical engineering mistakes that cost lives.

Really fascinating. Would love to know what institution this was but realize it may be too close to identifying. Thanks for the knowledge!

DP. In my engineering curriculum these types of failure were covered during a risk analysis course.

That makes total sense. It’s the presentation of it in an ethics class that has me wondering about the institution.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with cusack that it’s telling how many governments and journalists rushed to the aid of this foolish party while hundreds of refugees sank in the Mediterranean. Guess poor lives don’t matter. We don’t send taxpayer funded rescue teams to mt Everest for lost climbers so Why is my money being spent in this recovery effort?

I dunno why this keeps getting removed but the migrants were rescued by the yacht of a Mexican billionaire that happened to be nearby. When a boat sinks, there are moments, maybe hours to save folks and that is it. That is a bad comparison.

There is a duty to rescue at sea.

https://international-review.icrc.org/articles/duty-rescue-sea-peacetime-and-war-general-overview

The duty to rescue persons in distress at sea is a fundamental rule of international law. It has been incorporated in international treaties and forms the content of a norm of customary international law.

and italians or greeks rescue migrants on boats all the time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone dies. At least vaporizing yourself in an experimental carbon fiber tube is a pretty unique and interesting way to go.

Vaporizing?

That implies heat. This sub was 10000 ft underwater in near freezing temperatures. Good luck vaporizing anything.

You must’ve studied science at trump university.

The immense pressure of water entering the capsule would pulverize any living matter in the sub. We are talking surface of the sun temps. Gone. Nothing left. Literally E=mC^2

Maybe a little PV=nRT too.

A lot of T

Exponentially increasing V = exponentially increasing T

Typo:
Exponentially increasing P = exponentially increasing T

Followed by...
decreasing V = decreasing T

It’s gruesome, but the Byford dolphin incident is as close as I can think of known outcome in somewhat similar circumstances. It was a decompressive, rather than a compressive incident, and it was from 9 atm to 1 atm. Other vessels have imploded, like the uss thresher, but no one survived and there is a lot of uncertainty about what really happened. Don’t read about Byford dolphin if you are at all squeamish. The titan sub imploded with an external pressure of 500 atm to 1 atm. It’s hard to wrap your mind around a reaction that happens magnitudes faster than human reaction.

My God. How did you come to know about this incident?

I took an ethics in engineering course as part of my mech engineering curriculum for undergrad. I posted earlier (like 30 pages ago) that we studied classic engineering mistakes. The Byford dolphin was not one that we spent a lot of time on, but was mentioned because it was just so awful. The design for the chambers was bad, prone to human error. The titan sub will definitely make the list of unethical engineering mistakes that cost lives.

Really fascinating. Would love to know what institution this was but realize it may be too close to identifying. Thanks for the knowledge!

DP. In my engineering curriculum these types of failure were covered during a risk analysis course.

+1

Another DP. Same at my engineering school.