Can someone explain “defund” the police vs police reform?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am lucky enough to have witnessed some of the serious discussions around this playing out in real time over the last two years or so and the serious policy proposals being discussed by academics and activists are so nuanced and thoughtful that it makes this discussion incredibly frustrating.

What do do about intimate partner violence? There are serious and thoughtful discussions happening around that but you wouldn't know it from the folks using battered women as a talking point on these threads.

Exactly.

PP who asked who will respond to DV calls. I asked that question because they are some of the most dangerous calls for first responders, not because I am “using battered women as a talking point.” I’m glad to hear there are serious and thoughtful discussions happening around it. Maybe you could share some of the proposed ideas? My jurisdiction has a social worker respond to DV calls, but only once police have secured the scene (similar to fire dept/EMS response).

NP, but this article does a decent job highlighting some of the conversations. I'm not sure I agree with the restorative justice piece; it's an approach I continue to struggle with. But the rest of this article gives an overview of where these conversations have been for some time. If you're actually curious.

Oops, here's the link:
https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5eda8fe1c5b692d897d2de13?ped

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am lucky enough to have witnessed some of the serious discussions around this playing out in real time over the last two years or so and the serious policy proposals being discussed by academics and activists are so nuanced and thoughtful that it makes this discussion incredibly frustrating.

What do do about intimate partner violence? There are serious and thoughtful discussions happening around that but you wouldn't know it from the folks using battered women as a talking point on these threads.

Exactly.

PP who asked who will respond to DV calls. I asked that question because they are some of the most dangerous calls for first responders, not because I am “using battered women as a talking point.” I’m glad to hear there are serious and thoughtful discussions happening around it. Maybe you could share some of the proposed ideas? My jurisdiction has a social worker respond to DV calls, but only once police have secured the scene (similar to fire dept/EMS response).

DV calls are dangerous because the victim often doesn’t want the police there by the time they arrive. Or they don’t want the breadwinner arrested. This is very easily solved by not sending a cop in the first place.

So there should be no criminal consequences for domestic assault? I understand that not all DV cases necessarily involve physical violence (neighbors might hear arguing, etc.), but what about cases that do involve physical violence? Will it be up to the 911 operator to decide to send a social worker (I’d guess an hour response time is reasonable..they’d have to be on call) vs a police officer (immediate response)? And what happens if the 911 operator makes the wrong decision?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am lucky enough to have witnessed some of the serious discussions around this playing out in real time over the last two years or so and the serious policy proposals being discussed by academics and activists are so nuanced and thoughtful that it makes this discussion incredibly frustrating.

What do do about intimate partner violence? There are serious and thoughtful discussions happening around that but you wouldn't know it from the folks using battered women as a talking point on these threads.

Exactly.

PP who asked who will respond to DV calls. I asked that question because they are some of the most dangerous calls for first responders, not because I am “using battered women as a talking point.” I’m glad to hear there are serious and thoughtful discussions happening around it. Maybe you could share some of the proposed ideas? My jurisdiction has a social worker respond to DV calls, but only once police have secured the scene (similar to fire dept/EMS response).

DV calls are dangerous because the victim often doesn’t want the police there by the time they arrive. Or they don’t want the breadwinner arrested. This is very easily solved by not sending a cop in the first place.

So there should be no criminal consequences for domestic assault? I understand that not all DV cases necessarily involve physical violence (neighbors might hear arguing, etc.), but what about cases that do involve physical violence? Will it be up to the 911 operator to decide to send a social worker (I’d guess an hour response time is reasonable..they’d have to be on call) vs a police officer (immediate response)? And what happens if the 911 operator makes the wrong decision?

Criminal prosecution does nothing to solve the root causes of DV and often has blowback for the victim.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am lucky enough to have witnessed some of the serious discussions around this playing out in real time over the last two years or so and the serious policy proposals being discussed by academics and activists are so nuanced and thoughtful that it makes this discussion incredibly frustrating.

What do do about intimate partner violence? There are serious and thoughtful discussions happening around that but you wouldn't know it from the folks using battered women as a talking point on these threads.

Exactly.

PP who asked who will respond to DV calls. I asked that question because they are some of the most dangerous calls for first responders, not because I am “using battered women as a talking point.” I’m glad to hear there are serious and thoughtful discussions happening around it. Maybe you could share some of the proposed ideas? My jurisdiction has a social worker respond to DV calls, but only once police have secured the scene (similar to fire dept/EMS response).

DV calls are dangerous because the victim often doesn’t want the police there by the time they arrive. Or they don’t want the breadwinner arrested. This is very easily solved by not sending a cop in the first place.

So there should be no criminal consequences for domestic assault? I understand that not all DV cases necessarily involve physical violence (neighbors might hear arguing, etc.), but what about cases that do involve physical violence? Will it be up to the 911 operator to decide to send a social worker (I’d guess an hour response time is reasonable..they’d have to be on call) vs a police officer (immediate response)? And what happens if the 911 operator makes the wrong decision?

Criminal prosecution does nothing to solve the root causes of DV and often has blowback for the victim.

I’m not suggesting criminal prosecution is the *only* answer to DV. While I understand it does not solve the root issue, I still believe assaulting another person, whether it’s your husband or the mailman, should be a crime. DV programs (including social workers, DV shelters, MH professionals, etc) are absolutely essential. What I’m saying is that it’s not safe for a social worker to be the only party showing up to a DV call. He/she doesn’t know if they’re showing up to a scene where the couple is just in a run of the mill squabble or if a drunk partner has a firearm.

[Anonymous]

I have two questions.
1. What is the purpose of a restorative justice and meetings between a victim and an offender?
To explain to the victim that the offender is a real victim of the system and the victim is an a**hole who values his property more than am offender's well being?
Why the victim of a burglary has to face the offender? For some extra stress? Or to be talked out of pressing charges?

2. Under the new reform what rights are allocated for good citizens to defend their homes from burglars? Can a homeowner still shoot them dead?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am lucky enough to have witnessed some of the serious discussions around this playing out in real time over the last two years or so and the serious policy proposals being discussed by academics and activists are so nuanced and thoughtful that it makes this discussion incredibly frustrating.

What do do about intimate partner violence? There are serious and thoughtful discussions happening around that but you wouldn't know it from the folks using battered women as a talking point on these threads.

Exactly.

PP who asked who will respond to DV calls. I asked that question because they are some of the most dangerous calls for first responders, not because I am “using battered women as a talking point.” I’m glad to hear there are serious and thoughtful discussions happening around it. Maybe you could share some of the proposed ideas? My jurisdiction has a social worker respond to DV calls, but only once police have secured the scene (similar to fire dept/EMS response).

DV calls are dangerous because the victim often doesn’t want the police there by the time they arrive. Or they don’t want the breadwinner arrested. This is very easily solved by not sending a cop in the first place.

So there should be no criminal consequences for domestic assault? I understand that not all DV cases necessarily involve physical violence (neighbors might hear arguing, etc.), but what about cases that do involve physical violence? Will it be up to the 911 operator to decide to send a social worker (I’d guess an hour response time is reasonable..they’d have to be on call) vs a police officer (immediate response)? And what happens if the 911 operator makes the wrong decision?

Criminal prosecution does nothing to solve the root causes of DV and often has blowback for the victim.

I’m not suggesting criminal prosecution is the *only* answer to DV. While I understand it does not solve the root issue, I still believe assaulting another person, whether it’s your husband or the mailman, should be a crime. DV programs (including social workers, DV shelters, MH professionals, etc) are absolutely essential. What I’m saying is that it’s not safe for a social worker to be the only party showing up to a DV call. He/she doesn’t know if they’re showing up to a scene where the couple is just in a run of the mill squabble or if a drunk partner has a firearm.

What is the point of incarcerating someone and ruining their life? Why inflict this misery on someone when they can be helped? You’re stuck in the carceral mindset. Think courageously. The days of locking people in cages is ending.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have two questions.
1. What is the purpose of a restorative justice and meetings between a victim and an offender?
To explain to the victim that the offender is a real victim of the system and the victim is an a**hole who values his property more than am offender's well being?
Why the victim of a burglary has to face the offender? For some extra stress? Or to be talked out of pressing charges?

2. Under the new reform what rights are allocated for good citizens to defend their homes from burglars? Can a homeowner still shoot them dead?

The better question is: what justification is there for killing someone over STUFF????

[Anonymous]

If DV will be decriminalized, I will start a hashtag #shedidnotwanttodie right away. It will be very trendy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If DV will be decriminalized, I will start a hashtag #shedidnotwanttodie right away. It will be very trendy.

Decarceration isn’t the same as decriminalization.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If DV will be decriminalized, I will start a hashtag #shedidnotwanttodie right away. It will be very trendy.

Decarceration isn’t the same as decriminalization.

The results will be the same - #shedidnotwanttodie

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If DV will be decriminalized, I will start a hashtag #shedidnotwanttodie right away. It will be very trendy.

Decarceration isn’t the same as decriminalization.

The results will be the same - #shedidnotwanttodie

No they aren't. #youarentcute

If you don't want to engage and discuss, then why are you here?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am lucky enough to have witnessed some of the serious discussions around this playing out in real time over the last two years or so and the serious policy proposals being discussed by academics and activists are so nuanced and thoughtful that it makes this discussion incredibly frustrating.

What do do about intimate partner violence? There are serious and thoughtful discussions happening around that but you wouldn't know it from the folks using battered women as a talking point on these threads.

Exactly.

PP who asked who will respond to DV calls. I asked that question because they are some of the most dangerous calls for first responders, not because I am “using battered women as a talking point.” I’m glad to hear there are serious and thoughtful discussions happening around it. Maybe you could share some of the proposed ideas? My jurisdiction has a social worker respond to DV calls, but only once police have secured the scene (similar to fire dept/EMS response).

DV calls are dangerous because the victim often doesn’t want the police there by the time they arrive. Or they don’t want the breadwinner arrested. This is very easily solved by not sending a cop in the first place.

So there should be no criminal consequences for domestic assault? I understand that not all DV cases necessarily involve physical violence (neighbors might hear arguing, etc.), but what about cases that do involve physical violence? Will it be up to the 911 operator to decide to send a social worker (I’d guess an hour response time is reasonable..they’d have to be on call) vs a police officer (immediate response)? And what happens if the 911 operator makes the wrong decision?

Criminal prosecution does nothing to solve the root causes of DV and often has blowback for the victim.

I’m not suggesting criminal prosecution is the *only* answer to DV. While I understand it does not solve the root issue, I still believe assaulting another person, whether it’s your husband or the mailman, should be a crime. DV programs (including social workers, DV shelters, MH professionals, etc) are absolutely essential. What I’m saying is that it’s not safe for a social worker to be the only party showing up to a DV call. He/she doesn’t know if they’re showing up to a scene where the couple is just in a run of the mill squabble or if a drunk partner has a firearm.

What is the point of incarcerating someone and ruining their life? Why inflict this misery on someone when they can be helped? You’re stuck in the carceral mindset. Think courageously. The days of locking people in cages is ending.

I can only speak for where I live, but here domestic A&B is a misdemeanor (unless you put your hands on the neck/impede blood or respiratory flow, then it is a felony). You are booked and released on bond. Most cases I see are given all suspended time and ordered to complete probation, including a Batterer’s Intervention Program. That is help, not “ruining their life” for their own choices, by the way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am lucky enough to have witnessed some of the serious discussions around this playing out in real time over the last two years or so and the serious policy proposals being discussed by academics and activists are so nuanced and thoughtful that it makes this discussion incredibly frustrating.

What do do about intimate partner violence? There are serious and thoughtful discussions happening around that but you wouldn't know it from the folks using battered women as a talking point on these threads.

Exactly.

PP who asked who will respond to DV calls. I asked that question because they are some of the most dangerous calls for first responders, not because I am “using battered women as a talking point.” I’m glad to hear there are serious and thoughtful discussions happening around it. Maybe you could share some of the proposed ideas? My jurisdiction has a social worker respond to DV calls, but only once police have secured the scene (similar to fire dept/EMS response).

DV calls are dangerous because the victim often doesn’t want the police there by the time they arrive. Or they don’t want the breadwinner arrested. This is very easily solved by not sending a cop in the first place.

So there should be no criminal consequences for domestic assault? I understand that not all DV cases necessarily involve physical violence (neighbors might hear arguing, etc.), but what about cases that do involve physical violence? Will it be up to the 911 operator to decide to send a social worker (I’d guess an hour response time is reasonable..they’d have to be on call) vs a police officer (immediate response)? And what happens if the 911 operator makes the wrong decision?

Criminal prosecution does nothing to solve the root causes of DV and often has blowback for the victim.

I’m not suggesting criminal prosecution is the *only* answer to DV. While I understand it does not solve the root issue, I still believe assaulting another person, whether it’s your husband or the mailman, should be a crime. DV programs (including social workers, DV shelters, MH professionals, etc) are absolutely essential. What I’m saying is that it’s not safe for a social worker to be the only party showing up to a DV call. He/she doesn’t know if they’re showing up to a scene where the couple is just in a run of the mill squabble or if a drunk partner has a firearm.

What is the point of incarcerating someone and ruining their life? Why inflict this misery on someone when they can be helped? You’re stuck in the carceral mindset. Think courageously. The days of locking people in cages is ending.

I can only speak for where I live, but here domestic A&B is a misdemeanor (unless you put your hands on the neck/impede blood or respiratory flow, then it is a felony). You are booked and released on bond. Most cases I see are given all suspended time and ordered to complete probation, including a Batterer’s Intervention Program. That is help, not “ruining their life” for their own choices, by the way.

And what happens when your employer fires you for having a criminal conviction? Or you can’t get housing or a student loan? Or when your probation gets revoked and you go to jail because you can’t afford the program or you miss a session because you’re working to feed your kids? Or your probation is revoked because you miss a session with your PO?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If DV will be decriminalized, I will start a hashtag #shedidnotwanttodie right away. It will be very trendy.

Decarceration isn’t the same as decriminalization.

The results will be the same - #shedidnotwanttodie

No they aren't. #youarentcute

If you don't want to engage and discuss, then why are you here?

I need some solid proof that they won't die. A solid proof that a social worker with a sweet talk can be a better mediator than a physically solid police officer with the gun and restraining techniques.
Then we can discuss. For now it sounds like a frightening anarchy and creation of no-go zones.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am lucky enough to have witnessed some of the serious discussions around this playing out in real time over the last two years or so and the serious policy proposals being discussed by academics and activists are so nuanced and thoughtful that it makes this discussion incredibly frustrating.

What do do about intimate partner violence? There are serious and thoughtful discussions happening around that but you wouldn't know it from the folks using battered women as a talking point on these threads.

Exactly.

PP who asked who will respond to DV calls. I asked that question because they are some of the most dangerous calls for first responders, not because I am “using battered women as a talking point.” I’m glad to hear there are serious and thoughtful discussions happening around it. Maybe you could share some of the proposed ideas? My jurisdiction has a social worker respond to DV calls, but only once police have secured the scene (similar to fire dept/EMS response).

DV calls are dangerous because the victim often doesn’t want the police there by the time they arrive. Or they don’t want the breadwinner arrested. This is very easily solved by not sending a cop in the first place.

So there should be no criminal consequences for domestic assault? I understand that not all DV cases necessarily involve physical violence (neighbors might hear arguing, etc.), but what about cases that do involve physical violence? Will it be up to the 911 operator to decide to send a social worker (I’d guess an hour response time is reasonable..they’d have to be on call) vs a police officer (immediate response)? And what happens if the 911 operator makes the wrong decision?

Criminal prosecution does nothing to solve the root causes of DV and often has blowback for the victim.

I’m not suggesting criminal prosecution is the *only* answer to DV. While I understand it does not solve the root issue, I still believe assaulting another person, whether it’s your husband or the mailman, should be a crime. DV programs (including social workers, DV shelters, MH professionals, etc) are absolutely essential. What I’m saying is that it’s not safe for a social worker to be the only party showing up to a DV call. He/she doesn’t know if they’re showing up to a scene where the couple is just in a run of the mill squabble or if a drunk partner has a firearm.

What is the point of incarcerating someone and ruining their life? Why inflict this misery on someone when they can be helped? You’re stuck in the carceral mindset. Think courageously. The days of locking people in cages is ending.

I can only speak for where I live, but here domestic A&B is a misdemeanor (unless you put your hands on the neck/impede blood or respiratory flow, then it is a felony). You are booked and released on bond. Most cases I see are given all suspended time and ordered to complete probation, including a Batterer’s Intervention Program. That is help, not “ruining their life” for their own choices, by the way.

And what happens when your employer fires you for having a criminal conviction? Or you can’t get housing or a student loan? Or when your probation gets revoked and you go to jail because you can’t afford the program or you miss a session because you’re working to feed your kids? Or your probation is revoked because you miss a session with your PO?

Just to clarify - you’re for *decriminalizing* DV then?

Here, BIP programs offer payment plans or community service in lieu of payment and most meet once a week for an hour. Again, only speaking for where I live, probation would not be revoked for missing a single appointment.