Afraid of backlash against Muslims

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lol this poster is unhinged..."Guilty until proven innocent" is not a principle we follow in America. Maybe the PP should relocate to Russia where his/her type of thinking would be more welcome.

I agree, so no one is "guilty" of "backlash" or "discrimination" against Muslims until proven innocent. Maybe OP should relocate to Iran.

Unless you agree that all Christians (not only catholics) must denounce the pedophilia of the Catholic church (just one example, we can come up with many for any given group of people), than you really have no argument here. By your logic, most christians support pedophilia.

This is a bad example. The collective outrage over pedophilia in the Catholic church was widespread. Many Catholics spoke out against it, left the church, etc. If you ask any Christian about it they would express disgust and sadness over the matter. The previous pope made an almost unprecedented move of "retiring" because he knew he was handling the fallout poorly. Pope Francis' has made a radical change in rhetoric and this made a real difference with people who were dissatisfied with the Catholic church on a lot of levels.

ISIS didn't pop into the world all of a sudden. The hateful, crazy rhetoric has been part of the Islamic world for a long time. The violence against minorities and even other Muslims has been around a long time, and has been widespread. THAT is the equivalent of the Catholic church's pedophilia problem, and that elicited no outrage in the Muslim world. You could have walked through Cairo on a Friday afternoon for the past couple of decades and heard ISIS-worthy sermons about the "kaffir" blaring from loudspeakers for the entire world to hear. Criticizing anything "Islamic" in the Muslim world is very much taboo. Or maybe most Muslims didn't really care, and things kept escalating until we reached this point.

I specifically mentioned all denominations beyond Catholics since we are including all Muslims and not just the radicals...it's a perfectly good example. You wouldn't think so however, because it shows the fault in your own argument. If you ask any American muslim about the paris attacks they would most likely also express disgust and sadness, even the OP said she denounced the attacks.

[Anonymous]

Wow. You really hate Muslims, huh?

Not at all. I accept the reality of what is, especially when it blasts me in the face on CNN on a daily basis.

I'm a Muslim and I think 9/11 was nothing but pure evil.

I appreciate that. I'll bet however that you're probably very atypical amongst your Muslim friends and relatives in your viewpoints on these issues. Be honest now. You probably stick out like a sore thumb, right?

I'm a Muslim and I'm married to a Jewish man

So wouldn't it be fair to say that your viewpoints are most likely atypical in terms of other Muslims you know or are related to?

and don't want to see Israel or Jews "wiped off" the face off this world.

You seem like a very reasonable person, why is it do you think that so many people who actually live in that area of the world disagree with you? What about your Muslim friends/relatives/acquaintances?

We're raising our daughter in both faiths. I'm sorry if that offends you.

It doesn't offend me in the least.

Do you think your viewpoints represent that of the "typical" Muslim American or is it more likely that you are a unicorn?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It is worth reading certain Islamist newspapers to see their reactions to the attacks in Paris. The West is cast as a land of “infidels.” The attacks were the result of the onslaught against Islam. Muslims and Arabs have become the enemies of the secular and the Jews. The Palestinian question is invoked along with the rape of Iraq and the memory of colonial trauma, and packaged into a messianic discourse meant to seduce the masses. Such talk spreads in the social spaces below, while up above, political leaders send their condolences to France and denounce a crime against humanity. This totally schizophrenic situation parallels the West’s denial regarding Saudi Arabia.

Not quite. You left out other enemies of Islam such as Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists, and pretty much everyone else who is not Muslim and hence is considered "infidel."

In the U.S. we are focused on the middle east and Israel, probably because U.S. has an influential jewish population, but Muslims haven't limited their slaughter to Jews and Christians by any means. They've slaughtered plenty of Hindus, Sikhs, etc.

Basically whatever flavor of Islam is invoked, it's not a sin to kill an infidel, if it's done in the name of Allah or for the betterment of the Islamic community, or the spread of the caliphate.

Does that mean most Muslims are going to do the actual killing? No of course not. Most people in general don't have the stomach to commit that kind of violence.

However, are they going to shed a tear for the infidels who might be killed by their radical violent Islamic brothers? That's a nope too.

Pretty much every Muslim I've ever spoken with basically doesn't really have any issue with what happened on 9/11 or let's say the notion of wiping Israel and the Jewish population in other parts of the world off the face of the Earth. I mean they at first give lip service but if pressed at all it's very clear that they just don't give a shit about the deaths of infidels. I'm sure they feel the same way about Sikhs, Hindus, and others as they do Jews and Christians.

Infidels are just "in the way."

Convert or die.

I hope that explains Islam adequately, because that's what it is.

Wow. You really hate Muslims, huh?

I'm a Muslim and I think 9/11 was nothing but pure evil. I'm a Muslim and I'm married to a Jewish man and don't want to see Israel or Jews "wiped off" the face off this world. We're raising our daughter in both faiths. I'm sorry if that offends you.

Is your synagogue accepting pp? Is your mosque? Just curious.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It is worth reading certain Islamist newspapers to see their reactions to the attacks in Paris. The West is cast as a land of “infidels.” The attacks were the result of the onslaught against Islam. Muslims and Arabs have become the enemies of the secular and the Jews. The Palestinian question is invoked along with the rape of Iraq and the memory of colonial trauma, and packaged into a messianic discourse meant to seduce the masses. Such talk spreads in the social spaces below, while up above, political leaders send their condolences to France and denounce a crime against humanity. This totally schizophrenic situation parallels the West’s denial regarding Saudi Arabia.

Not quite. You left out other enemies of Islam such as Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists, and pretty much everyone else who is not Muslim and hence is considered "infidel."

In the U.S. we are focused on the middle east and Israel, probably because U.S. has an influential jewish population, but Muslims haven't limited their slaughter to Jews and Christians by any means. They've slaughtered plenty of Hindus, Sikhs, etc.

Basically whatever flavor of Islam is invoked, it's not a sin to kill an infidel, if it's done in the name of Allah or for the betterment of the Islamic community, or the spread of the caliphate.

Does that mean most Muslims are going to do the actual killing? No of course not. Most people in general don't have the stomach to commit that kind of violence.

However, are they going to shed a tear for the infidels who might be killed by their radical violent Islamic brothers? That's a nope too.

Pretty much every Muslim I've ever spoken with basically doesn't really have any issue with what happened on 9/11 or let's say the notion of wiping Israel and the Jewish population in other parts of the world off the face of the Earth. I mean they at first give lip service but if pressed at all it's very clear that they just don't give a shit about the deaths of infidels. I'm sure they feel the same way about Sikhs, Hindus, and others as they do Jews and Christians.

Infidels are just "in the way."

Convert or die.

I hope that explains Islam adequately, because that's what it is.

Wow. You really hate Muslims, huh?

I'm a Muslim and I think 9/11 was nothing but pure evil. I'm a Muslim and I'm married to a Jewish man and don't want to see Israel or Jews "wiped off" the face off this world. We're raising our daughter in both faiths. I'm sorry if that offends you.

Is your synagogue accepting pp? Is your mosque? Just curious.

Yes! We've had great experiences

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm Muslim and fear backlash, too. I also find myself often angry that my religion is used by sociopaths to kill. But I try to remind myself that no religion is perfect and that any of the three major monotheistic religions taken literally can lead to absurdity, hatred, murder, and misogyny:

Deuteronomy 22:28-29 - If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay her father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.

Leviticus 20:10 - If a man commits adultery with his neighbor's wife, both the man and the woman who have committed adultery must be put to death.

Deuteronomy 17:2-17:7 - If there is found in your midst, in any of your towns, which the Lord your God is giving you, a man or a woman who does what is evil in the sight of the Lord your God, by transgressing His covenant, and has gone and served other gods and worshiped them, or the sun or the moon or any of the heavenly host, which I have not commanded, and if it is told you and you have heard of it, then you shall inquire thoroughly. Behold, if it is true and the thing certain that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then you shall bring out that man or that woman who has done this evil deed to your gates, that is, the man or the woman, and you shall stone them to death. On the evidence of two witnesses or three witnesses, he who is to die shall be put to death; he shall not be put to death on the [d]evidence of one witness. The hand of the witnesses shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people. So you shall purge the evil from your midst.

Timothy 2:9 - Likewise, I want women to adorn themselves with proper clothing, modestly and discreetly, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly garments.

Leviticus 10:6 - Uncover not your heads, neither rend your clothes; lest ye die, and lest wrath come upon all the people.

Deuteronomy 22:20-21 - But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel: Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you.

1 Corinthians 14:34-35 - Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

Leviticus 21:17-23 - Whosoever … hath any blemish, let him not approach to offer the bread of his God. For whatsoever man he be that hath a blemish, he shall not approach: a blind man, or a lame, or he that hath a flat nose, or any thing superfluous, Or a man that is brokenfooted, or brokenhanded, Or crookback, or a dwarf, or that hath a blemish in his eye, or be scurvy, or scabbed, or hath his stones broken … He shall not go in unto the vail, nor come nigh unto the altar, because he hath a blemish; that he profane not my sanctuaries.

Deuteronomy 21:18-21 - If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die.

Numbers 31:17-18 - Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man intimately. But all the girls who have not known man intimately, spare for yourselves.

Leviticus 25:44-46 - You may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way.

And here we have the typical "equivocal" response. "Other religions have violence in them too."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Wow. You really hate Muslims, huh?

Not at all. I accept the reality of what is, especially when it blasts me in the face on CNN on a daily basis.

I'm a Muslim and I think 9/11 was nothing but pure evil.

I appreciate that. I'll bet however that you're probably very atypical amongst your Muslim friends and relatives in your viewpoints on these issues. Be honest now. You probably stick out like a sore thumb, right?

I'm a Muslim and I'm married to a Jewish man

So wouldn't it be fair to say that your viewpoints are most likely atypical in terms of other Muslims you know or are related to?

and don't want to see Israel or Jews "wiped off" the face off this world.

You seem like a very reasonable person, why is it do you think that so many people who actually live in that area of the world disagree with you? What about your Muslim friends/relatives/acquaintances?

We're raising our daughter in both faiths. I'm sorry if that offends you.

It doesn't offend me in the least.

Do you think your viewpoints represent that of the "typical" Muslim American or is it more likely that you are a unicorn?

Not a unicorn! Haha.

I'm from a secular country that is 98% Muslim. My parents grew up with almost all Muslims but some of their nearest and dearest friends back home were Jews. We travel back all the time and all my friends and relatives are accepting of my marriage and love my husband. My cousin is married to a beautiful and kind Christian man. We've gone to synagogue in my family's country. I've never known anything but acceptance of all faiths.

Your racism is really sad. I'm sorry for you. I hope you can find peace and love in your heart.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm Muslim and fear backlash, too. I also find myself often angry that my religion is used by sociopaths to kill. But I try to remind myself that no religion is perfect and that any of the three major monotheistic religions taken literally can lead to absurdity, hatred, murder, and misogyny:

Deuteronomy 22:28-29 - If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay her father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.

Leviticus 20:10 - If a man commits adultery with his neighbor's wife, both the man and the woman who have committed adultery must be put to death.

Deuteronomy 17:2-17:7 - If there is found in your midst, in any of your towns, which the Lord your God is giving you, a man or a woman who does what is evil in the sight of the Lord your God, by transgressing His covenant, and has gone and served other gods and worshiped them, or the sun or the moon or any of the heavenly host, which I have not commanded, and if it is told you and you have heard of it, then you shall inquire thoroughly. Behold, if it is true and the thing certain that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then you shall bring out that man or that woman who has done this evil deed to your gates, that is, the man or the woman, and you shall stone them to death. On the evidence of two witnesses or three witnesses, he who is to die shall be put to death; he shall not be put to death on the [d]evidence of one witness. The hand of the witnesses shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people. So you shall purge the evil from your midst.

Timothy 2:9 - Likewise, I want women to adorn themselves with proper clothing, modestly and discreetly, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly garments.

Leviticus 10:6 - Uncover not your heads, neither rend your clothes; lest ye die, and lest wrath come upon all the people.

Deuteronomy 22:20-21 - But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel: Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you.

1 Corinthians 14:34-35 - Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

Leviticus 21:17-23 - Whosoever … hath any blemish, let him not approach to offer the bread of his God. For whatsoever man he be that hath a blemish, he shall not approach: a blind man, or a lame, or he that hath a flat nose, or any thing superfluous, Or a man that is brokenfooted, or brokenhanded, Or crookback, or a dwarf, or that hath a blemish in his eye, or be scurvy, or scabbed, or hath his stones broken … He shall not go in unto the vail, nor come nigh unto the altar, because he hath a blemish; that he profane not my sanctuaries.

Deuteronomy 21:18-21 - If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die.

Numbers 31:17-18 - Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man intimately. But all the girls who have not known man intimately, spare for yourselves.

Leviticus 25:44-46 - You may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way.

And here we have the typical "equivocal" response. "Other religions have violence in them too."

Sorry, but they already denounced killing in the name of Islam...that it can be done by any religion is just a side note.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Further to the Muslim-American PP:

Do you specifically and unequivocally renounce the recent terror killings of Jews/Israelis by Palestinians (I think a few were stabbed to death or something)?

Yes or no--unequivocally.

(If you renounce "all killing" as you just claimed then "all" should include what this Palestinian did. So it should be very easy for you to answer.)

Yes, I do not believe these murders were justified, just as I do not think Israeli killings of Palestinians are justified. Both are despicable.

LOL you just couldn't do it, could you? Predictable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm Muslim and fear backlash, too. I also find myself often angry that my religion is used by sociopaths to kill. But I try to remind myself that no religion is perfect and that any of the three major monotheistic religions taken literally can lead to absurdity, hatred, murder, and misogyny:

Deuteronomy 22:28-29 - If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay her father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.

Leviticus 20:10 - If a man commits adultery with his neighbor's wife, both the man and the woman who have committed adultery must be put to death.

Deuteronomy 17:2-17:7 - If there is found in your midst, in any of your towns, which the Lord your God is giving you, a man or a woman who does what is evil in the sight of the Lord your God, by transgressing His covenant, and has gone and served other gods and worshiped them, or the sun or the moon or any of the heavenly host, which I have not commanded, and if it is told you and you have heard of it, then you shall inquire thoroughly. Behold, if it is true and the thing certain that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then you shall bring out that man or that woman who has done this evil deed to your gates, that is, the man or the woman, and you shall stone them to death. On the evidence of two witnesses or three witnesses, he who is to die shall be put to death; he shall not be put to death on the [d]evidence of one witness. The hand of the witnesses shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people. So you shall purge the evil from your midst.

Timothy 2:9 - Likewise, I want women to adorn themselves with proper clothing, modestly and discreetly, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly garments.

Leviticus 10:6 - Uncover not your heads, neither rend your clothes; lest ye die, and lest wrath come upon all the people.

Deuteronomy 22:20-21 - But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel: Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you.

1 Corinthians 14:34-35 - Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

Leviticus 21:17-23 - Whosoever … hath any blemish, let him not approach to offer the bread of his God. For whatsoever man he be that hath a blemish, he shall not approach: a blind man, or a lame, or he that hath a flat nose, or any thing superfluous, Or a man that is brokenfooted, or brokenhanded, Or crookback, or a dwarf, or that hath a blemish in his eye, or be scurvy, or scabbed, or hath his stones broken … He shall not go in unto the vail, nor come nigh unto the altar, because he hath a blemish; that he profane not my sanctuaries.

Deuteronomy 21:18-21 - If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die.

Numbers 31:17-18 - Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man intimately. But all the girls who have not known man intimately, spare for yourselves.

Leviticus 25:44-46 - You may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way.

And here we have the typical "equivocal" response. "Other religions have violence in them too."

Nothing "equivocal" about it. I was the PP you've quoted. Taking someone's life is murder - be it in the name of Allah, Christ, Yahweh, or whatever your name is for the Higher Being to which you pray.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Further to the Muslim-American PP:

Do you specifically and unequivocally renounce the recent terror killings of Jews/Israelis by Palestinians (I think a few were stabbed to death or something)?

Yes or no--unequivocally.

(If you renounce "all killing" as you just claimed then "all" should include what this Palestinian did. So it should be very easy for you to answer.)

Yes, I do not believe these murders were justified, just as I do not think Israeli killings of Palestinians are justified. Both are despicable.

LOL you just couldn't do it, could you? Predictable.

It must be hard when no-one wants to play your game.

[Anonymous]

I'm from a secular country that is 98% Muslim.

LOL PP, I guess you never stopped to think about how your unidentified "secular" country got to a 98% Islamic population.

I mean, after all, Islam didn't even start until relatively recently in world history.

Where did all the "other" people go, PP? You know, the non-Islamic people who lived in your country before Mohammed's time?

If you'd identify the country in question I could just google it to find out how many infidels died during the Islamic conquest of your country. Little help please?

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

I'm from a secular country that is 98% Muslim.

LOL PP, I guess you never stopped to think about how your unidentified "secular" country got to a 98% Islamic population.

I mean, after all, Islam didn't even start until relatively recently in world history.

Where did all the "other" people go, PP? You know, the non-Islamic people who lived in your country before Mohammed's time?

If you'd identify the country in question I could just google it to find out how many infidels died during the Islamic conquest of your country. Little help please?

Can you Google the Rohingyas and let me know what you think about their situation?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Wow. You really hate Muslims, huh?

Not at all. I accept the reality of what is, especially when it blasts me in the face on CNN on a daily basis.

I'm a Muslim and I think 9/11 was nothing but pure evil.

I appreciate that. I'll bet however that you're probably very atypical amongst your Muslim friends and relatives in your viewpoints on these issues. Be honest now. You probably stick out like a sore thumb, right?

I'm a Muslim and I'm married to a Jewish man

So wouldn't it be fair to say that your viewpoints are most likely atypical in terms of other Muslims you know or are related to?

and don't want to see Israel or Jews "wiped off" the face off this world.

You seem like a very reasonable person, why is it do you think that so many people who actually live in that area of the world disagree with you? What about your Muslim friends/relatives/acquaintances?

We're raising our daughter in both faiths. I'm sorry if that offends you.

It doesn't offend me in the least.

Do you think your viewpoints represent that of the "typical" Muslim American or is it more likely that you are a unicorn?

Not a unicorn! Haha.

I'm from a secular country that is 98% Muslim. My parents grew up with almost all Muslims but some of their nearest and dearest friends back home were Jews. We travel back all the time and all my friends and relatives are accepting of my marriage and love my husband. My cousin is married to a beautiful and kind Christian man. We've gone to synagogue in my family's country. I've never known anything but acceptance of all faiths.

Your racism is really sad. I'm sorry for you. I hope you can find peace and love in your heart.

Are you from Morocco? We have friends with a Muslim nanny and she paints such a wonderful picture of life there between Jews and Muslims.

DH's family is Jewish and originally from Syria and we know Persian Jews as well. They never describe life in their former countries like this.

[Anonymous]

Nothing "equivocal" about it. I was the PP you've quoted. Taking someone's life is murder - be it in the name of Allah, Christ, Yahweh, or whatever your name is for the Higher Being to which you pray.

****

O.K. I can play like that too: "Backlash and discrimination against Muslims is bad but so is discrimination against any other people or ethnic group or religion or race. That would certainly include the actions of the Islamic terrorists in Paris and Bali and the Palestinian terrorist who stabbed the Israelis recently."

Are you satisfied jsteele? LOL

[Anonymous]

I think all religions are stupid.