New Budget Recommendations -- eliminate AAP busing and centers

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You do realize just how many GE students there are who are equally bright as the vast majority of AAP students? And that this large group of kids is perfectly capable of doing AAP work? FCPS needs to simply allow all kids to take the level (in ALL subjects, not just math) that is suitable for them, and leave the labeling out of it.

This is just silly. There are plenty of children in GE (probably most of them) who are bright enough to do anything they want in life. If they were tested for AAP and did not get in, they are not as bright as the vast majority of AAP students.

And there it is, in a nutshell. The classic AAP parent (and child) superiority complex. It's sad that you actually believe this is true. Thank you, FCPS, for creating this divide and fostering this type of mentality.

I wrote that comment and don't have a child in AAP. If not intelligence, what do you think the identification process is based on?

It's based on a test score, from a test given when the child is 7 or 8 years old. Sorry, but I don't think a child's innate intelligence can be judged at that age, and I think it's a huge shame that kids are divided into two groups based, primarily, on the results of these tests.

Some kids aren't ready in second but might have grown a lot by fourth or fifth. Be grateful fcps gives students a cuance to apply for entry every single year if they want for six straigt years.

No. I would be grateful if the option for advanced classes existed without any red tape, testing, or applications. Every child should have the chance to perform in advanced courses, period. Far more would excel than are even given the chance to. Those who didn't, could simply take regular classes. There is no need to jump through hoops simply to take more advanced coursework. Middle and high school are perfect examples. No one has to test into Honors or AP classes - they just choose to take them. Some kids excel and some don't, but at least the choice is up to them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You do realize just how many GE students there are who are equally bright as the vast majority of AAP students? And that this large group of kids is perfectly capable of doing AAP work? FCPS needs to simply allow all kids to take the level (in ALL subjects, not just math) that is suitable for them, and leave the labeling out of it.

This is just silly. There are plenty of children in GE (probably most of them) who are bright enough to do anything they want in life. If they were tested for AAP and did not get in, they are not as bright as the vast majority of AAP students.

And there it is, in a nutshell. The classic AAP parent (and child) superiority complex. It's sad that you actually believe this is true. Thank you, FCPS, for creating this divide and fostering this type of mentality.

I wrote that comment and don't have a child in AAP. If not intelligence, what do you think the identification process is based on?

It's based on a test score, from a test given when the child is 7 or 8 years old. Sorry, but I don't think a child's innate intelligence can be judged at that age, and I think it's a huge shame that kids are divided into two groups based, primarily, on the results of these tests.

Some kids aren't ready in second but might have grown a lot by fourth or fifth. Be grateful fcps gives students a cuance to apply for entry every single year if they want for six straigt years.

No. I would be grateful if the option for advanced classes existed without any red tape, testing, or applications. Every child should have the chance to perform in advanced courses, period. Far more would excel than are even given the chance to. Those who didn't, could simply take regular classes. There is no need to jump through hoops simply to take more advanced coursework. Middle and high school are perfect examples. No one has to test into Honors or AP classes - they just choose to take them. Some kids excel and some don't, but at least the choice is up to them.

I agree that a one-room schoolhouse approach would be great. But FCPS is too large and there are not enough teachers to be able to successfully implement such a large change.

[Anonymous]

The schools used to require certain grades in honors and teacher recommendations to be eligible to take AP classes. Many people would argue that that was a better system, because the classes were filled with kids who actually wanted to and could do the work. The only reason they dropped the pre-reqs was to increase their standings in the Washington Post high school rankings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You do realize just how many GE students there are who are equally bright as the vast majority of AAP students? And that this large group of kids is perfectly capable of doing AAP work? FCPS needs to simply allow all kids to take the level (in ALL subjects, not just math) that is suitable for them, and leave the labeling out of it.

This is just silly. There are plenty of children in GE (probably most of them) who are bright enough to do anything they want in life. If they were tested for AAP and did not get in, they are not as bright as the vast majority of AAP students.

And there it is, in a nutshell. The classic AAP parent (and child) superiority complex. It's sad that you actually believe this is true. Thank you, FCPS, for creating this divide and fostering this type of mentality.

I wrote that comment and don't have a child in AAP. If not intelligence, what do you think the identification process is based on?

It's based on a test score, from a test given when the child is 7 or 8 years old. Sorry, but I don't think a child's innate intelligence can be judged at that age, and I think it's a huge shame that kids are divided into two groups based, primarily, on the results of these tests.

Some kids aren't ready in second but might have grown a lot by fourth or fifth. Be grateful fcps gives students a cuance to apply for entry every single year if they want for six straigt years.

No. I would be grateful if the option for advanced classes existed without any red tape, testing, or applications. Every child should have the chance to perform in advanced courses, period. Far more would excel than are even given the chance to. Those who didn't, could simply take regular classes. There is no need to jump through hoops simply to take more advanced coursework. Middle and high school are perfect examples. No one has to test into Honors or AP classes - they just choose to take them. Some kids excel and some don't, but at least the choice is up to them.

But that's not the system in place right now. Right now we have the process to enter AAP. Do you have a child in AAP? And do you think your child could do the coursework?

[Anonymous]

^As it stands students have a lot of opportunities to qualify for AAP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You do realize just how many GE students there are who are equally bright as the vast majority of AAP students? And that this large group of kids is perfectly capable of doing AAP work? FCPS needs to simply allow all kids to take the level (in ALL subjects, not just math) that is suitable for them, and leave the labeling out of it.

This is just silly. There are plenty of children in GE (probably most of them) who are bright enough to do anything they want in life. If they were tested for AAP and did not get in, they are not as bright as the vast majority of AAP students.

And there it is, in a nutshell. The classic AAP parent (and child) superiority complex. It's sad that you actually believe this is true. Thank you, FCPS, for creating this divide and fostering this type of mentality.

I wrote that comment and don't have a child in AAP. If not intelligence, what do you think the identification process is based on?

It's based on a test score, from a test given when the child is 7 or 8 years old. Sorry, but I don't think a child's innate intelligence can be judged at that age, and I think it's a huge shame that kids are divided into two groups based, primarily, on the results of these tests.

Some kids aren't ready in second but might have grown a lot by fourth or fifth. Be grateful fcps gives students a cuance to apply for entry every single year if they want for six straigt years.

No. I would be grateful if the option for advanced classes existed without any red tape, testing, or applications. Every child should have the chance to perform in advanced courses, period. Far more would excel than are even given the chance to. Those who didn't, could simply take regular classes. There is no need to jump through hoops simply to take more advanced coursework. Middle and high school are perfect examples. No one has to test into Honors or AP classes - they just choose to take them. Some kids excel and some don't, but at least the choice is up to them.

That is the way it is in HS. The students are all mixed in together. IME, it works very well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The schools used to require certain grades in honors and teacher recommendations to be eligible to take AP classes. Many people would argue that that was a better system, because the classes were filled with kids who actually wanted to and could do the work. The only reason they dropped the pre-reqs was to increase their standings in the Washington Post high school rankings.

Many people would argue that the system as it stands today is far better. AP and Honors classes are still filled with kids able, eager, and enthusiastic to do the work. The difference is, the classes are open to far more students than they used to be. The curriculum and instruction is still the same - AP curriculum is standardized throughout the U.S. and the exams are all the same.

Of course, there will always be the disgruntled parents who feel that these classes should only be reserved for certain kids, as they currently are in elementary and middle school. Thankfully, high school is when those parents stop getting their way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The schools used to require certain grades in honors and teacher recommendations to be eligible to take AP classes. Many people would argue that that was a better system, because the classes were filled with kids who actually wanted to and could do the work. The only reason they dropped the pre-reqs was to increase their standings in the Washington Post high school rankings.

Many people would argue that the system as it stands today is far better. AP and Honors classes are still filled with kids able, eager, and enthusiastic to do the work. The difference is, the classes are open to far more students than they used to be. The curriculum and instruction is still the same - AP curriculum is standardized throughout the U.S. and the exams are all the same.

Of course, there will always be the disgruntled parents who feel that these classes should only be reserved for certain kids, as they currently are in elementary and middle school. Thankfully, high school is when those parents stop getting their way.

Who cares about the parents of the profoundly gifted complaining, what about the parents of the kids who missed getting in but continue to raise their torches and pitchforks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The schools used to require certain grades in honors and teacher recommendations to be eligible to take AP classes. Many people would argue that that was a better system, because the classes were filled with kids who actually wanted to and could do the work. The only reason they dropped the pre-reqs was to increase their standings in the Washington Post high school rankings.

Many people would argue that the system as it stands today is far better. AP and Honors classes are still filled with kids able, eager, and enthusiastic to do the work. The difference is, the classes are open to far more students than they used to be. The curriculum and instruction is still the same - AP curriculum is standardized throughout the U.S. and the exams are all the same.

Of course, there will always be the disgruntled parents who feel that these classes should only be reserved for certain kids, as they currently are in elementary and middle school. Thankfully, high school is when those parents stop getting their way.

AP courses are supposed to be college level courses that prepare students to do well on a college level exam. Most schools used to require that students be ready for college level coursework to take AP classes. Then Jay Mathews started ranking schools on how many kids took AP classes and all requirements were dropped so that schools could attain a higher rank by simply allowing and encouraging any and all kids to take AP courses.

When half students in the class are not prepared for the level and pace of instruction in the class, it is frustrating for the teacher and for the students who are ready. AP courses are not what they used to be: many colleges have reduced the amount and type of credit and/or placement they will allow for AP courses. Colleges are recognizing that AP courses are not truly college level courses anymore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You do realize just how many GE students there are who are equally bright as the vast majority of AAP students? And that this large group of kids is perfectly capable of doing AAP work? FCPS needs to simply allow all kids to take the level (in ALL subjects, not just math) that is suitable for them, and leave the labeling out of it.

This is just silly. There are plenty of children in GE (probably most of them) who are bright enough to do anything they want in life. If they were tested for AAP and did not get in, they are not as bright as the vast majority of AAP students.

And there it is, in a nutshell. The classic AAP parent (and child) superiority complex. It's sad that you actually believe this is true. Thank you, FCPS, for creating this divide and fostering this type of mentality.

I wrote that comment and don't have a child in AAP. If not intelligence, what do you think the identification process is based on?

It's based on a test score, from a test given when the child is 7 or 8 years old. Sorry, but I don't think a child's innate intelligence can be judged at that age, and I think it's a huge shame that kids are divided into two groups based, primarily, on the results of these tests.

Some kids aren't ready in second but might have grown a lot by fourth or fifth. Be grateful fcps gives students a cuance to apply for entry every single year if they want for six straigt years.

No. I would be grateful if the option for advanced classes existed without any red tape, testing, or applications. Every child should have the chance to perform in advanced courses, period. Far more would excel than are even given the chance to. Those who didn't, could simply take regular classes. There is no need to jump through hoops simply to take more advanced coursework. Middle and high school are perfect examples. No one has to test into Honors or AP classes - they just choose to take them. Some kids excel and some don't, but at least the choice is up to them.

But that's not the system in place right now. Right now we have the process to enter AAP. Do you have a child in AAP? And do you think your child could do the coursework?

And not slow the rest of the class down?

[Anonymous]

Colleges have prerequisite or "weeder" classes also before students are permitted to take a higher level class-to simply offer AP classes as a free for all does no one any good and leads parents to push their kids into an environment they might not succeed in. Not sure whom this is benefitting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The schools used to require certain grades in honors and teacher recommendations to be eligible to take AP classes. Many people would argue that that was a better system, because the classes were filled with kids who actually wanted to and could do the work. The only reason they dropped the pre-reqs was to increase their standings in the Washington Post high school rankings.

Many people would argue that the system as it stands today is far better. AP and Honors classes are still filled with kids able, eager, and enthusiastic to do the work. The difference is, the classes are open to far more students than they used to be. The curriculum and instruction is still the same - AP curriculum is standardized throughout the U.S. and the exams are all the same.

Of course, there will always be the disgruntled parents who feel that these classes should only be reserved for certain kids, as they currently are in elementary and middle school. Thankfully, high school is when those parents stop getting their way.

AP courses are supposed to be college level courses that prepare students to do well on a college level exam. Most schools used to require that students be ready for college level coursework to take AP classes. Then Jay Mathews started ranking schools on how many kids took AP classes and all requirements were dropped so that schools could attain a higher rank by simply allowing and encouraging any and all kids to take AP courses.

When half students in the class are not prepared for the level and pace of instruction in the class, it is frustrating for the teacher and for the students who are ready. AP courses are not what they used to be: many colleges have reduced the amount and type of credit and/or placement they will allow for AP courses. Colleges are recognizing that AP courses are not truly college level courses anymore.

I have a college freshman and a HS Junior and their experiences in the Honors and AP classes is that the vast majority of the class is ready, eager and willing to do the work, there will always be a few slackers (even in a test in program). They have had a very positive experience. The college freshman was granted enough credits to be considered a sophomore and they filled all but one of his non-major course requirements and one year of calculus. He has also found himself to be very well prepared.

[Anonymous]

Most of the more elite colleges do not grant credit for AP classes in college-even back in my day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Most of the more elite colleges do not grant credit for AP classes in college-even back in my day.

My current college student received a ton of credit and his program is a top ten in his major.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You do realize just how many GE students there are who are equally bright as the vast majority of AAP students? And that this large group of kids is perfectly capable of doing AAP work? FCPS needs to simply allow all kids to take the level (in ALL subjects, not just math) that is suitable for them, and leave the labeling out of it.

This is just silly. There are plenty of children in GE (probably most of them) who are bright enough to do anything they want in life. If they were tested for AAP and did not get in, they are not as bright as the vast majority of AAP students.

And there it is, in a nutshell. The classic AAP parent (and child) superiority complex. It's sad that you actually believe this is true. Thank you, FCPS, for creating this divide and fostering this type of mentality.

I wrote that comment and don't have a child in AAP. If not intelligence, what do you think the identification process is based on?

+1. Travel soccer teams have athletically talented kids (I could have my kids take hours of private lessons a day and they still wouldn't get in), youth orchestras have musically talented kids, and AAP has -- wait for it-- academically talented kids. According to a combination of work samples, teacher recommendations and standardized tests. And if you don't like the standardized tests, you can get an IQ test done and prove the COGAT wrong. So AAP is not just a "superior in their parents minds" thing. It's a designation that kids get after a vote by an objective panel weighs a number of factors. So yes, GE kids have been determined BY FCPS not to be as academically talented as the cutoff for the AAP pool. But, it is also a fact that any team, group or program that is not open admission (or lottery) will select some kids and not others based on talent and performance. Why is this okay in athletics but not academics? I don't accuse parents in my community of a "superiority complex" when they talk about their child making a "cut" team for a high school sport. I usually think, "Larla is a nice kid. Good for her." It takes nothing away for my kids to recognize that other kids are talented-- sometimes in areas where my kids struggle. It's not a zero sum game.

I wasn't going to come back to this thread after posting a long while back, but am glad I did. The bold statement is so true. Thanks to this PP.