So, what is wrong with Hardy?

[Anonymous]

PP who contacted the principal about IB numbers -- did you receive an answer?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Now I figured out exactly why white northeast liberals are worse racists than white conservative southerners. White northeast liberals surgically segregate undesirable races out if their lives while southern conservatives integrate with the natural friction but at least they integrate .

Having lived in both places I can say that was not my experience AT ALL.

Anyway what are the other criticsms of Hardy besides it's ib rate, it's size and it's uniform policy?

You missed the most important one. Test scores, which though not perfect,are the best measure of education quality available.

I am very happy Hardy has a stable staff and seems poised to make progress. We sent our oldest to private during the principal churn years, but there is a chance we could send the younger one to Hardy.

Yep, test scores are the biggest deterrent. Ward 3 kids simply perform at a much higher level, as a whole, than kids from outside of Ward 3, as a whole. Hence the tit-for-tat about snobbery and racism; but when you get down to it the scores speak for themselves. You can argue about the generational, social causes for lower test scores, but that's beside the point when parents desire the best possible education for their kid(s), in the present. Parents tend to want high-achieving kids to be surrounded by (mostly) other high achieving kids. Once this is acknowledged, what else is there to discuss other than uniforms and P.E.?

Anyone who works in education in DC will tell you that this isn't really true. Teachers who 'inherit' high performing students don't have to work nearly as hard as those who do not. Income level is still the largest determining factor for academic performance meaning high SES children consistently score higher than low SES children. There's no special magic happening at any WOTP schools. Remove many of those teachers to a low performing school and they wouldn't be able to get anywhere close to the same results. So, you're not necessarily getting the best possible education. What you're getting is a school with other children who are high performing, many also high SES, and typically more resources, because parents can afford to provide them when the District wont.

Thanks for your insight, PP.

You're right. Teachers matter, but not that much. Facilities matter, but not that much. Extra-curriculars matter, but not that much.

What matters most is how many well-prepared, hard-working, well-supported children, i.e., high-SES children, are at the school. Those children will educate each other and challenge each other to reach his or her full potential.

So, how many IB children are at Hardy this year? How many in the 6th grade?

Have you called the Principal to ask? She not keeping a secret, it's just that she does not monitor DCUM.

As has been reported on DCUM -- this thread, I think -- the principal has stated that she will not release he information out of respect for OOB.

This is not correct. She will give them if you ask - in fact, at one point, they were posted on the Hardy website in conjunction with information about the open houses. She's not keeping a secret, there is no grand conspiracy, there is no terrible news about few IB students attending - all you have to do is ask and she will tell you.

So, what are the numbers then?

They were posted here about 60 pages ago. And again: if you want them, go ask the Principal. She will tell you. Quit whining about it on this site when the solution is easily at your fingertips.

Or you could repost them if you weren't ashamed of them. Some of us don't want to wade through 15 pages.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"I understood your point, PP. I was taking it to its logical conclusion: Don't pass on Hardy because of its lousy DCCAS scores. Pass on Hardy because of its 55% FARMs rate and 13% IB rate. "


Suppose the IB rate for 2014-2015 comes in at 15%, and the FARMS rate is down to 51%? Would that (combined with academic improvements) convince you to try it?

While FARMs percentage matters to some degree, I think a key, related, concern for skeptical parents is still the overall achievement level of the NON-low income students. So to address that concern, let's take a look at the available numbers. If you look at the 2014 DC CAS results, you'll see 103 students in 6th grade, 61 of them (62%) classified as "economically disadvantaged." The overall test scores for those kids really were pretty good, considering their economic circumstances: 38 (62%) proficient or above in Math and 33 (54%) proficient or above in reading. Those scores are actually what you want in a diverse school from your low income population!

The scores of the NON-low income (e.g., middle class or above) students were not high enough to pull up the scores of the 62% economically disadvantaged students. Overall at Hardy 6th grade in 2014, 73 students (71%) were proficient or above in Math, and 63 students (61%) were proficient or above in reading. But realize that non-low-income students would have to put up incredible scores to create an average higher than that, considering the majority low income population at the school! Even though DC CAS does not provide data for the "non-economically-disadvantaged" student population, you see based on the low-income scores how hard it would be for the 42 non-low-income students to significantly pull up the scores of the 61 low-income students.

I'll agree that 62% economically advantaged is far too high for a high-achieving school - so, as you point out, prospective parents will desire the % of economically disadvantaged students to be lower (I'm using "economically disadvantaged" as a category rather than "FARMs," because that's what DC CAS uses) - and if that percentage of low income students goes down then the overall scores would certainly go up immediately. The key is to attract more students from non-economically disadvantaged families to attend. Attracting more IB students is the best way to control for that outcome, as the OOB students are a mixed bag of income levels. If that happens, then the scores could jump up rapidly to near-Deal-like levels.

My conclusion is that there needs to be a more balanced student population at the school (more "diverse," shall we say?) in order to create a higher level of overall achievement necessary to attract more kids from the local neighborhood. Lowering the number to around 50% economically disadvantaged and increasing neighborhood numbers to at least 25% "true IB" would be a great start, and I think would soon make it a very desirable destination for most parents. Based on last year's numbers, the school is not diverse enough (economically disadvantaged, non-economically disadvantaged, race) - yet.

Hardy is very diverse, thank you very much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"I understood your point, PP. I was taking it to its logical conclusion: Don't pass on Hardy because of its lousy DCCAS scores. Pass on Hardy because of its 55% FARMs rate and 13% IB rate. "


Suppose the IB rate for 2014-2015 comes in at 15%, and the FARMS rate is down to 51%? Would that (combined with academic improvements) convince you to try it?

While FARMs percentage matters to some degree, I think a key, related, concern for skeptical parents is still the overall achievement level of the NON-low income students. So to address that concern, let's take a look at the available numbers. If you look at the 2014 DC CAS results, you'll see 103 students in 6th grade, 61 of them (62%) classified as "economically disadvantaged." The overall test scores for those kids really were pretty good, considering their economic circumstances: 38 (62%) proficient or above in Math and 33 (54%) proficient or above in reading. Those scores are actually what you want in a diverse school from your low income population!

The scores of the NON-low income (e.g., middle class or above) students were not high enough to pull up the scores of the 62% economically disadvantaged students. Overall at Hardy 6th grade in 2014, 73 students (71%) were proficient or above in Math, and 63 students (61%) were proficient or above in reading. But realize that non-low-income students would have to put up incredible scores to create an average higher than that, considering the majority low income population at the school! Even though DC CAS does not provide data for the "non-economically-disadvantaged" student population, you see based on the low-income scores how hard it would be for the 42 non-low-income students to significantly pull up the scores of the 61 low-income students.

I'll agree that 62% economically advantaged is far too high for a high-achieving school - so, as you point out, prospective parents will desire the % of economically disadvantaged students to be lower (I'm using "economically disadvantaged" as a category rather than "FARMs," because that's what DC CAS uses) - and if that percentage of low income students goes down then the overall scores would certainly go up immediately. The key is to attract more students from non-economically disadvantaged families to attend. Attracting more IB students is the best way to control for that outcome, as the OOB students are a mixed bag of income levels. If that happens, then the scores could jump up rapidly to near-Deal-like levels.

My conclusion is that there needs to be a more balanced student population at the school (more "diverse," shall we say?) in order to create a higher level of overall achievement necessary to attract more kids from the local neighborhood. Lowering the number to around 50% economically disadvantaged and increasing neighborhood numbers to at least 25% "true IB" would be a great start, and I think would soon make it a very desirable destination for most parents. Based on last year's numbers, the school is not diverse enough (economically disadvantaged, non-economically disadvantaged, race) - yet.

Hardy is very diverse, thank you very much.

The elephant in the room is that real diversity? Would include more than a token upper-SES caucasian child or two.

[Anonymous]

I am a current Stoddert parent who toured Hardy, and I was literally running for the exit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a current Stoddert parent who toured Hardy, and I was literally running for the exit.

Please elaborate.

[Anonymous]

It's really sad to read some of these Hardy posts. Parents are trying to convince themselves that Hardy is better than, or equal to private school. It's so obvious that they know it's not but still try to convince themselves otherwise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's really sad to read some of these Hardy posts. Parents are trying to convince themselves that Hardy is better than, or equal to private school. It's so obvious that they know it's not but still try to convince themselves otherwise.

I don't think anyone thinks that Hardy is "better" than a $40,000 private school. How could it possibly be?

But parents who send their kids to Hardy do so because they are confident that their kids can get a solid education that lays the groundwork for future success in high school, college, and beyond. And those who stay at Hardy do so because they have first-hand experience that tells them that is the case. Why should they question their first-hand experience based on a bunch of nonsense that they see from people on this board - most of whom have never set foot in Hardy?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a current Stoddert parent who toured Hardy, and I was literally running for the exit.

I've walked through Hardy lots of times (neighborhood resident) and never felt like I need to run for the exits. They're just middle school kids. What in the world are you talking about?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a current Stoddert parent who toured Hardy, and I was literally running for the exit.

I recently visited St Anselm's with high expectations (MS has been ranked "best MS in DC for 3 years in a row by a well-respected source), and I was literally running for the exit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"I understood your point, PP. I was taking it to its logical conclusion: Don't pass on Hardy because of its lousy DCCAS scores. Pass on Hardy because of its 55% FARMs rate and 13% IB rate. "


Suppose the IB rate for 2014-2015 comes in at 15%, and the FARMS rate is down to 51%? Would that (combined with academic improvements) convince you to try it?

While FARMs percentage matters to some degree, I think a key, related, concern for skeptical parents is still the overall achievement level of the NON-low income students. So to address that concern, let's take a look at the available numbers. If you look at the 2014 DC CAS results, you'll see 103 students in 6th grade, 61 of them (62%) classified as "economically disadvantaged." The overall test scores for those kids really were pretty good, considering their economic circumstances: 38 (62%) proficient or above in Math and 33 (54%) proficient or above in reading. Those scores are actually what you want in a diverse school from your low income population!

The scores of the NON-low income (e.g., middle class or above) students were not high enough to pull up the scores of the 62% economically disadvantaged students. Overall at Hardy 6th grade in 2014, 73 students (71%) were proficient or above in Math, and 63 students (61%) were proficient or above in reading. But realize that non-low-income students would have to put up incredible scores to create an average higher than that, considering the majority low income population at the school! Even though DC CAS does not provide data for the "non-economically-disadvantaged" student population, you see based on the low-income scores how hard it would be for the 42 non-low-income students to significantly pull up the scores of the 61 low-income students.

I'll agree that 62% economically advantaged is far too high for a high-achieving school - so, as you point out, prospective parents will desire the % of economically disadvantaged students to be lower (I'm using "economically disadvantaged" as a category rather than "FARMs," because that's what DC CAS uses) - and if that percentage of low income students goes down then the overall scores would certainly go up immediately. The key is to attract more students from non-economically disadvantaged families to attend. Attracting more IB students is the best way to control for that outcome, as the OOB students are a mixed bag of income levels. If that happens, then the scores could jump up rapidly to near-Deal-like levels.

My conclusion is that there needs to be a more balanced student population at the school (more "diverse," shall we say?) in order to create a higher level of overall achievement necessary to attract more kids from the local neighborhood. Lowering the number to around 50% economically disadvantaged and increasing neighborhood numbers to at least 25% "true IB" would be a great start, and I think would soon make it a very desirable destination for most parents. Based on last year's numbers, the school is not diverse enough (economically disadvantaged, non-economically disadvantaged, race) - yet.

Hardy is very diverse, thank you very much.

The elephant in the room is that real diversity? Would include more than a token upper-SES caucasian child or two.

By the way diversity is thought of in DC, Hardy is already diverse. Stop whining and accept Hardy. Or don't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"I understood your point, PP. I was taking it to its logical conclusion: Don't pass on Hardy because of its lousy DCCAS scores. Pass on Hardy because of its 55% FARMs rate and 13% IB rate. "


Suppose the IB rate for 2014-2015 comes in at 15%, and the FARMS rate is down to 51%? Would that (combined with academic improvements) convince you to try it?

While FARMs percentage matters to some degree, I think a key, related, concern for skeptical parents is still the overall achievement level of the NON-low income students. So to address that concern, let's take a look at the available numbers. If you look at the 2014 DC CAS results, you'll see 103 students in 6th grade, 61 of them (62%) classified as "economically disadvantaged." The overall test scores for those kids really were pretty good, considering their economic circumstances: 38 (62%) proficient or above in Math and 33 (54%) proficient or above in reading. Those scores are actually what you want in a diverse school from your low income population!

The scores of the NON-low income (e.g., middle class or above) students were not high enough to pull up the scores of the 62% economically disadvantaged students. Overall at Hardy 6th grade in 2014, 73 students (71%) were proficient or above in Math, and 63 students (61%) were proficient or above in reading. But realize that non-low-income students would have to put up incredible scores to create an average higher than that, considering the majority low income population at the school! Even though DC CAS does not provide data for the "non-economically-disadvantaged" student population, you see based on the low-income scores how hard it would be for the 42 non-low-income students to significantly pull up the scores of the 61 low-income students.

I'll agree that 62% economically advantaged is far too high for a high-achieving school - so, as you point out, prospective parents will desire the % of economically disadvantaged students to be lower (I'm using "economically disadvantaged" as a category rather than "FARMs," because that's what DC CAS uses) - and if that percentage of low income students goes down then the overall scores would certainly go up immediately. The key is to attract more students from non-economically disadvantaged families to attend. Attracting more IB students is the best way to control for that outcome, as the OOB students are a mixed bag of income levels. If that happens, then the scores could jump up rapidly to near-Deal-like levels.

My conclusion is that there needs to be a more balanced student population at the school (more "diverse," shall we say?) in order to create a higher level of overall achievement necessary to attract more kids from the local neighborhood. Lowering the number to around 50% economically disadvantaged and increasing neighborhood numbers to at least 25% "true IB" would be a great start, and I think would soon make it a very desirable destination for most parents. Based on last year's numbers, the school is not diverse enough (economically disadvantaged, non-economically disadvantaged, race) - yet.

Hardy is very diverse, thank you very much.

The elephant in the room is that real diversity? Would include more than a token upper-SES caucasian child or two.

By the way diversity is thought of in DC, Hardy is already diverse. Stop whining and accept Hardy. Or don't.

Or lobby to change it, ignoring the objections of current Hardy families who insist that only those who attend have the right to lobby for change.

[Anonymous]

IB families don't have to lobby for anything. Just choose to attend, and (POOF!) it's changed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:IB families don't have to lobby for anything. Just choose to attend, and (POOF!) it's changed.

And when the smoke clears, it's still over 80% OOB and 50% FARMs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:IB families don't have to lobby for anything. Just choose to attend, and (POOF!) it's changed.

And when the smoke clears, it's still over 80% OOB and 50% FARMs.

Not if you count most of the "OOB" as feeder-based "IB." And, as we saw above, the FARMs percentage (currently listed 55%) will decrease quickly with IB buy-in. The scores will go up immediately. Et cetera.