How has Hardy drawn inbound families?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Um, I think you're forgetting that there will be a senior class graduating, so that 1696 number will not include them--there won't be five grade levels there next year!...

Number would go up, but likely not as high as 2160.

If 540 kids enter next year, and the same enter the next three years, then at some point there will be 2160 kids there. It's 540x4.

That's extreme, to be sure. Some kids at Deal and Hardy won't end up at Wilson. But there are 540 kids a year from those schools who have a right to attend, not counting kids at Adams or who live in areas zoned for Wilson but not for Wilson feeders. It's going to be a problem, and cutting out Mt. Pleasant and SW isn't going to solve it. It seems there's no will to abolish the out of boundary guaranteed feeder rule. Hardy's probably the next most reasonable solution.

Explain to me how cutting Hardy makes more sense than cutting EOTP and SW. Seriously. For now we can ignore geography and just talk numbers. I contend that it doesn't make sense to cut Hardy before SW and EOTP from a purely numbers stand-point. When you factor in the logistics and geography, this notion is completely, utterly idiotic.

Not PP, but I think they were saying that even after cutting EOTP and SW, you may still need to cut Hardy.

This is not what "they're" saying. That would, at least, make some logical sense. Although it still is incorrect, you can at least follow the reasoning.

There is no one in any position of authority who believes that Wilson is not plenty big for both Deal and Hardy. Essentially, "your" argument is that Deal becomes a 7-year school (since it will be the only feeder to Wilson). You can see how this won't happen, right.

And, the numbers say it's not needed anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Um, I think you're forgetting that there will be a senior class graduating, so that 1696 number will not include them--there won't be five grade levels there next year!...

Number would go up, but likely not as high as 2160.

If 540 kids enter next year, and the same enter the next three years, then at some point there will be 2160 kids there. It's 540x4.

That's extreme, to be sure. Some kids at Deal and Hardy won't end up at Wilson. But there are 540 kids a year from those schools who have a right to attend, not counting kids at Adams or who live in areas zoned for Wilson but not for Wilson feeders. It's going to be a problem, and cutting out Mt. Pleasant and SW isn't going to solve it. It seems there's no will to abolish the out of boundary guaranteed feeder rule. Hardy's probably the next most reasonable solution.

Explain to me how cutting Hardy makes more sense than cutting EOTP and SW. Seriously. For now we can ignore geography and just talk numbers. I contend that it doesn't make sense to cut Hardy before SW and EOTP from a purely numbers stand-point. When you factor in the logistics and geography, this notion is completely, utterly idiotic.

Not PP, but I think they were saying that even after cutting EOTP and SW, you may still need to cut Hardy.

This is not what "they're" saying. That would, at least, make some logical sense. Although it still is incorrect, you can at least follow the reasoning.

There is no one in any position of authority who believes that Wilson is not plenty big for both Deal and Hardy. Essentially, "your" argument is that Deal becomes a 7-year school (since it will be the only feeder to Wilson). You can see how this won't happen, right.

And, the numbers say it's not needed anyway.

Same person was trying to interpret (sucessfully or not). Actually I have heard several folks in authority talk about that potential need. Indeed, it seems clear now that was the rationale behind the perhaps ill-advised wording in the scenarios suggesting that Hardy feed into a new high school. Whether it happens I think is up for debate, with lots of considerations logistical, political, etc.. The numbers, as they often are, are also uncertain. If all students from Deal and Hardy continue to Wilson, then it is pretty clear that Wilson would not in any way have enough capacity. And Deal is getting larger (facing its own capacity constraints). Certainly not all of these students go to Wilson now, and whether they will in the future will depend on the state of other schools (Walls, charters, attractiveness of other options), but one certainly cannot rule out the possibility that Wilson could be very overcrowded but fine (that it will be overcapacity is a lock, it is now) and one also cannot rule out that Wilson has a real issue that restricting its feeders further would help solve. Given that, it would seem to me that at least seriously exploring some alternative high school (in whatever form -- existing, new, different locations) is both reasonable and prudent. That doesn't mean that you necessarily do it.

[Anonymous]

if we get rid of feeder rights for OOB kids at elementary feeders for Deal, then the overcrowding is solved at BOTH schools. Kids who attend the feeders as OOB kids can attend the schools feeding to them IF there is space, and the rest of the empty seats after IB and OOB kids who went to Elementary feeders can be offered up via the lottery-I do not understand why this isn't the most obvious solution for everyone (save those who actually ARE OOB kids at elementary feeders for Deal!)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:if we get rid of feeder rights for OOB kids at elementary feeders for Deal, then the overcrowding is solved at BOTH schools. Kids who attend the feeders as OOB kids can attend the schools feeding to them IF there is space, and the rest of the empty seats after IB and OOB kids who went to Elementary feeders can be offered up via the lottery-I do not understand why this isn't the most obvious solution for everyone (save those who actually ARE OOB kids at elementary feeders for Deal!)

OOB feeder rights have such strong political support that I think continued crowding is more likely than any reduction in OOB rights. Or reassignment of feeders or movement of boundaries for that matter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
(2) Politically, building a new high school WOTP will be a challenge. The irony is that some of the same folks demanding access to Wilson from EOTP, even if it means kicking out Hardy, are categorically opposed to any new school construction WOTP.

I'm always leery of the phrase "the same people." Often it says more about the speaker than the subject -- that the speaker considers everyone not like himself to be the same -- and who he considers to be different from or the same as himself.

I have never heard the same person both demand access to Wilson for EOTP residents and say that he is categorically opposed to any new school construction WOTP.

That said, I will say that it appears that access to Wilson for EOTP and opposition to a new WOTP school are both more popular ideas EOTP than WOTP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:if we get rid of feeder rights for OOB kids at elementary feeders for Deal, then the overcrowding is solved at BOTH schools. Kids who attend the feeders as OOB kids can attend the schools feeding to them IF there is space, and the rest of the empty seats after IB and OOB kids who went to Elementary feeders can be offered up via the lottery-I do not understand why this isn't the most obvious solution for everyone (save those who actually ARE OOB kids at elementary feeders for Deal!)

Given that the last few years have seen few OOB slots available in the feeders to Deal, I'm not sure that is the case. Why is it that if the feeder schools are at capacity, the receiving school is overcrowded? Shouldn't those totals match?

[Anonymous]

PP: Eaton is one feeder school that, for example, is close to 80% OOB in their upper grade-that is how!
33% of students at Deal are OOB-you get rid of OOB feeder rights, you get rid of overcrowding, it is that simple-the numbers are far too vast to lie. OOB spaces should ONLY be made available when there is room!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:if we get rid of feeder rights for OOB kids at elementary feeders for Deal, then the overcrowding is solved at BOTH schools. Kids who attend the feeders as OOB kids can attend the schools feeding to them IF there is space, and the rest of the empty seats after IB and OOB kids who went to Elementary feeders can be offered up via the lottery-I do not understand why this isn't the most obvious solution for everyone (save those who actually ARE OOB kids at elementary feeders for Deal!)

Given that the last few years have seen few OOB slots available in the feeders to Deal, I'm not sure that is the case. Why is it that if the feeder schools are at capacity, the receiving school is overcrowded? Shouldn't those totals match?

Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner. "Shouldn't those totals match?" In any sort of logical system, they would. But there is absolutely no connection between the capacity of the feeder schools and the capacity of the fed schools. DCPS doesn't have an office of planning, and there is absolutely no long-term planning being done. There is zero connection between facilities decisions and enrollment and demographic projections. So even while Deal has struggled with crowding, the Deal feeders have been relentlessly expanded over the past few years. The response has been to build an addition at Deal, with no thought as to how that might impact Wilson.

Facilities decisions are made on a building-by-building basis, largely based on the condition of the building. No sort of planning whatsoever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:if we get rid of feeder rights for OOB kids at elementary feeders for Deal, then the overcrowding is solved at BOTH schools. Kids who attend the feeders as OOB kids can attend the schools feeding to them IF there is space, and the rest of the empty seats after IB and OOB kids who went to Elementary feeders can be offered up via the lottery-I do not understand why this isn't the most obvious solution for everyone (save those who actually ARE OOB kids at elementary feeders for Deal!)

Given that the last few years have seen few OOB slots available in the feeders to Deal, I'm not sure that is the case. Why is it that if the feeder schools are at capacity, the receiving school is overcrowded? Shouldn't those totals match?

Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner. "Shouldn't those totals match?" In any sort of logical system, they would. But there is absolutely no connection between the capacity of the feeder schools and the capacity of the fed schools. DCPS doesn't have an office of planning, and there is absolutely no long-term planning being done. There is zero connection between facilities decisions and enrollment and demographic projections. So even while Deal has struggled with crowding, the Deal feeders have been relentlessly expanded over the past few years. The response has been to build an addition at Deal, with no thought as to how that might impact Wilson.

Facilities decisions are made on a building-by-building basis, largely based on the condition of the building. No sort of planning whatsoever.

...and while this is totally true, the fact that the expansion of said feeders is greater than Deal has ability to accommodate, it would not impact Deal were it not for the fact that there are OOB feeder rights!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:SW and EOTP aren't the crunch. There are 1248 kids at Deal and 371 at Hardy. Assuming equal grade sizes, that alone puts 540 potential kids into Wilson next year. Wilson's capacity is only 1431. Their current enrollment is 1696. They can't handle 2160.

Some Hardy and Deal kids will go to private schools, charters, SWW/Banneker/Ellington, or move out of the district. But some kids who could have gone to Hardy or Deal but picked charters will go to Wilson, and some new families with high school-aged kids will move to upper NW. There's not enough capacity at Wilson and taking out SW and Adams doesn't come close to solving it.

If Francis-Stevens became another HS fed by Adams and Hardy with SW having a right to attend, some very cool specialized programs (maybe foreign service, with the state department and the universities so close by, though this may require a change to plans for Roosevelt? Take museum studies out of Ellington and make a museum-focused HS? public health?) I could see it working, and some folks who think Wilson is too big for their kids might actually prefer it. But where would the PK-8 kids go?

Not sure of the numbers for Deal, but Principal Pride at Hardy has said that only about half of this year's Hardy 8th graders will be going on to Wilson - the rest will be going private or to magnets (Walls, Ellington, Banneker, and others. This is noteworthy for two reasons - first, it shows how well high-achieving kids do at Hardy, and second, it shows how little Hardy contributes to Wilson overcrowding.

Um, I think you're forgetting that there will be a senior class graduating, so that 1696 number will not include them--there won't be five grade levels there next year!

If you estimate that around 430 kids graduate, that would leave around 1270 in 10th, 11th, and 12th grades. Then add the approx. 540 freshman and you have an approximate enrollment of 1820, or around 120 more than this year.

That's if everyone from Deal and Hardy go to Wilson instead of private or charter, and if everyone at Wilson now stays at Wilson next year, AND if no other kids who don't go to Deal or Hardy but are IB for Wilson decide to go to Wilson (as in, leave their private or charter middle school for free high school).

Number would go up, but likely not as high as 2160.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:SW and EOTP aren't the crunch. There are 1248 kids at Deal and 371 at Hardy. Assuming equal grade sizes, that alone puts 540 potential kids into Wilson next year. Wilson's capacity is only 1431. Their current enrollment is 1696. They can't handle 2160.

Some Hardy and Deal kids will go to private schools, charters, SWW/Banneker/Ellington, or move out of the district. But some kids who could have gone to Hardy or Deal but picked charters will go to Wilson, and some new families with high school-aged kids will move to upper NW. There's not enough capacity at Wilson and taking out SW and Adams doesn't come close to solving it.

If Francis-Stevens became another HS fed by Adams and Hardy with SW having a right to attend, some very cool specialized programs (maybe foreign service, with the state department and the universities so close by, though this may require a change to plans for Roosevelt? Take museum studies out of Ellington and make a museum-focused HS? public health?) I could see it working, and some folks who think Wilson is too big for their kids might actually prefer it. But where would the PK-8 kids go?

I can see this High School location working also, except the Hardy people destined for Wilson may freak out. But maybe put into the choice set, if you are into sports then the school with the big soccer fields are for your kids ie Wilson, if sports is important but you prefer a more academics and language then go to Francis Stephens. Or maybe you don't care either way, you just want a short commute...

Not sure about the K-8 kids, aren't most of them out of bounds anyway?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:SW and EOTP aren't the crunch. There are 1248 kids at Deal and 371 at Hardy. Assuming equal grade sizes, that alone puts 540 potential kids into Wilson next year. Wilson's capacity is only 1431. Their current enrollment is 1696. They can't handle 2160.

Some Hardy and Deal kids will go to private schools, charters, SWW/Banneker/Ellington, or move out of the district. But some kids who could have gone to Hardy or Deal but picked charters will go to Wilson, and some new families with high school-aged kids will move to upper NW. There's not enough capacity at Wilson and taking out SW and Adams doesn't come close to solving it.

If Francis-Stevens became another HS fed by Adams and Hardy with SW having a right to attend, some very cool specialized programs (maybe foreign service, with the state department and the universities so close by, though this may require a change to plans for Roosevelt? Take museum studies out of Ellington and make a museum-focused HS? public health?) I could see it working, and some folks who think Wilson is too big for their kids might actually prefer it. But where would the PK-8 kids go?

I can see this High School location working also, except the Hardy people destined for Wilson may freak out. But maybe put into the choice set, if you are into sports then the school with the big soccer fields are for your kids ie Wilson, if sports is important but you prefer a more academics and language then go to Francis Stephens. Or maybe you don't care either way, you just want a short commute...

Not sure about the K-8 kids, aren't most of them out of bounds anyway?

Umm, how about my IB comprehensive HS be comprehensive, instead of following some fad? I don't want a Musuem Studies or Public Health or Arts focused school. I want a regular, comprehensive school. If parents want a specialty school, then they should skip their by-right IB school and attend a specialty school. Full stop.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:SW and EOTP aren't the crunch. There are 1248 kids at Deal and 371 at Hardy. Assuming equal grade sizes, that alone puts 540 potential kids into Wilson next year. Wilson's capacity is only 1431. Their current enrollment is 1696. They can't handle 2160.

Some Hardy and Deal kids will go to private schools, charters, SWW/Banneker/Ellington, or move out of the district. But some kids who could have gone to Hardy or Deal but picked charters will go to Wilson, and some new families with high school-aged kids will move to upper NW. There's not enough capacity at Wilson and taking out SW and Adams doesn't come close to solving it.

If Francis-Stevens became another HS fed by Adams and Hardy with SW having a right to attend, some very cool specialized programs (maybe foreign service, with the state department and the universities so close by, though this may require a change to plans for Roosevelt? Take museum studies out of Ellington and make a museum-focused HS? public health?) I could see it working, and some folks who think Wilson is too big for their kids might actually prefer it. But where would the PK-8 kids go?

I can see this High School location working also, except the Hardy people destined for Wilson may freak out. But maybe put into the choice set, if you are into sports then the school with the big soccer fields are for your kids ie Wilson, if sports is important but you prefer a more academics and language then go to Francis Stephens. Or maybe you don't care either way, you just want a short commute...

Not sure about the K-8 kids, aren't most of them out of bounds anyway?

Umm, how about my IB comprehensive HS be comprehensive, instead of following some fad? I don't want a Musuem Studies or Public Health or Arts focused school. I want a regular, comprehensive school. If parents want a specialty school, then they should skip their by-right IB school and attend a specialty school. Full stop.

+1000!!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:SW and EOTP aren't the crunch. There are 1248 kids at Deal and 371 at Hardy. Assuming equal grade sizes, that alone puts 540 potential kids into Wilson next year. Wilson's capacity is only 1431. Their current enrollment is 1696. They can't handle 2160.

Some Hardy and Deal kids will go to private schools, charters, SWW/Banneker/Ellington, or move out of the district. But some kids who could have gone to Hardy or Deal but picked charters will go to Wilson, and some new families with high school-aged kids will move to upper NW. There's not enough capacity at Wilson and taking out SW and Adams doesn't come close to solving it.

If Francis-Stevens became another HS fed by Adams and Hardy with SW having a right to attend, some very cool specialized programs (maybe foreign service, with the state department and the universities so close by, though this may require a change to plans for Roosevelt? Take museum studies out of Ellington and make a museum-focused HS? public health?) I could see it working, and some folks who think Wilson is too big for their kids might actually prefer it. But where would the PK-8 kids go?

I can see this High School location working also, except the Hardy people destined for Wilson may freak out. But maybe put into the choice set, if you are into sports then the school with the big soccer fields are for your kids ie Wilson, if sports is important but you prefer a more academics and language then go to Francis Stephens. Or maybe you don't care either way, you just want a short commute...

Not sure about the K-8 kids, aren't most of them out of bounds anyway?

only 28% inbound and only 284 kids in pk-8 -- tiny.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:SW and EOTP aren't the crunch. There are 1248 kids at Deal and 371 at Hardy. Assuming equal grade sizes, that alone puts 540 potential kids into Wilson next year. Wilson's capacity is only 1431. Their current enrollment is 1696. They can't handle 2160.

Some Hardy and Deal kids will go to private schools, charters, SWW/Banneker/Ellington, or move out of the district. But some kids who could have gone to Hardy or Deal but picked charters will go to Wilson, and some new families with high school-aged kids will move to upper NW. There's not enough capacity at Wilson and taking out SW and Adams doesn't come close to solving it.

If Francis-Stevens became another HS fed by Adams and Hardy with SW having a right to attend, some very cool specialized programs (maybe foreign service, with the state department and the universities so close by, though this may require a change to plans for Roosevelt? Take museum studies out of Ellington and make a museum-focused HS? public health?) I could see it working, and some folks who think Wilson is too big for their kids might actually prefer it. But where would the PK-8 kids go?

I can see this High School location working also, except the Hardy people destined for Wilson may freak out. But maybe put into the choice set, if you are into sports then the school with the big soccer fields are for your kids ie Wilson, if sports is important but you prefer a more academics and language then go to Francis Stephens. Or maybe you don't care either way, you just want a short commute...

Not sure about the K-8 kids, aren't most of them out of bounds anyway?

only 28% inbound and only 284 kids in pk-8 -- tiny.

OPC, amirite. [Other People's Children. It seems to be a running theme here. "Why don't we just do crazy plan ___X___ for these OPC." "I don't see any reason why OPC cannot have their commutes doubled in distance and quadrupled (at least) in time." "OPC don't need a comprehensive school; let's make it a library sciences school!" "To be honest, I haven't even thought one iota about the OPC who would be impacted. They're OOB anyway."]