what do you say to neighbors about why you are choosing private vs the local public?

[Anonymous]

OP~ I haven't read this whole thread, but would offer this:
Did you or husband go to private school? I'm guessing yes for one of you or both. Say it then. "my husband and I went to private school so it feels natural to us (or we wanted to give it a try)"

It's the comfort of a familiar path. And even if it isn't the same, it's a path.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:On this subject of whether someone sending their kid to private school helps/hurts the public school system, perhaps the issues become more transparent if we use a different hypothetical example rather than schools. It's often difficult to think the issue through clearly when the subject is schools, because people are so emotionally invested in one model or the other.

But pretend we weren't talking schools here, but something like food or cars. The government requires everyone to pay taxes and they all get the same standard issue car. At one point a bunch of citizens say, "We don't want this crummy car," and state that they are willing to pay extra to buy their own car from a private company even though they're still paying taxes to support the public car system. These citizens then stop sending orders to the government for their cars.

The first-order effects here are obvious. The government loses no revenue from these citizens' decisions, but is relieved from having to fulfill as many orders for cars. So a number of options arise; perhaps the government can invest more resources per car in the cars they make, and thereby improve them. Or they can give everyone a break on their taxes, reducing the cost per car for those still buying from the government (a third option, just running higher profits with the savings would exist if we weren't talking about the public sector).

The first-order effects of these citizens' choice to buy their cars privately are clearly beneficial for the purchasers of government cars. And they're clearly beneficial for those workers who make the cars, as now they have additional employment options, creating more competition for their services.

Now, someone could argue that there will be negative second-order effects from this dynamic; those who simply believe that all car production should be done through the government will be concerned, and some more would be concerned if the government reacted by cutting taxes and reducing resources to its public car industry rather than by improving public car quality.

But these are second-order effects, and they don't change the fact that the first-order effects, both for the purchasers of the cars and for those who work on the cars, are positive. And there's absolutely no empirical reason to believe that any cut backs in public spending on cars would exceed the amount of savings that comes from no longer having to send public-made cars to those citizens who chose voluntarily not to accept them even though they paid for them. The private car purchasers are basically giving the government an additional subsidy through their choice, and it would be illogical that this would actually be a net minus for the public system.

In any case, the first-order effect of people voluntarily buying private services while still paying taxes to support public ones is unequivocally positive for those who receive the public services. One argue about the extent to which negative second-order effects cut into this, but the first-order effect is clearly positive. Similarly, the line that somehow people sending their kids to private school "hurts" the public school system focuses on the second-order effects while ignoring that the first-order effects are positive and have to be at least of greater magnitude (unless one believes paradoxically that providing an additional net subsidy to the government, as private school parents are doing, reduces its ability to provide a service). It's basically a line that has become popular for political reasons, but contradicts the economics of the underlying transactions.

This is all very interesting & I like the way you are thinking, but I don't think your analogy is completely apt, because school services are not just a consumer retail good like food or cars. School services involve the participation of particular consumers -- students and their parents -- whose characteristics have a big influence on the actual service that ends up delivered to them and other consumers. For example, the SES, academic abilities and language needs of the students have a big effect on the kind of education that can and is delivered, and there are many factors about parents that affect whether they are likely to be very involved in the schools, lobby for additional funding for schools, provide volunteer and financial support that has positive effects on the school, etc. So in that way I don't think it's fair to assume it's a net good for the schools to have a lot of people opting out, even if there may be an immediate financial gain.

[Anonymous]

!8:37 I agree with you 100%. Public schools need active, engaged, smart, demanding parents in order to be pushed to be the best. If parents simply opt out, you are, in fact weakening the public school system. It is the reason Warren Buffet advocates doing away with private school (not something I agree with, but his point is well taken). If everyone had to be in the public school system then, theoretically, those engaged parents would improve the system for all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:we have decided to go with a small, private, parochial school for now and my good friends are all going to have a field day with it. they are incredibly pro-public school, and while i am too, the DC public school system seems a bit broken and we are looking for something different for our kids at this time. i, too, am not looking forward to the discussion because there is going to be a lot of eye-rolling, shaming and such.

and yes, it will make me re-think these friendships, which date back 15 years and very much pre-kids.

You deserve the eye rolls.

I do not understand why people don't look into the school system - specifically the clusters (Mo Co) or pyramids (VA?) - before purchasing a home.

Most parochial schools are inferior. When I compare what my daughter is doing in public compared to what her friends are doing in the local parish school, it's like night and day. There is NO differentiation. Kids read the same book, as reading levels aren't taken into account. Why have lexile scores? to collect dust? They assess yet do nothing with the data. Math instruction is mostly seat work, and while a few are pulled for higher level math, the rest is mainly seat work that's not challenging. Most parents don't complain. However, I have a good pal who's a teacher who's now realizing just how dumbed down reading instruction is. So while her daughter's reading at a 9th grade level (She's in 4th.), the book she's currently "studying" in class is at a 3rd grade level.

just amazing how little these teachers know - and even worse, just how low the expectations are for these teachers

Do your research before you buy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:!8:37 I agree with you 100%. Public schools need active, engaged, smart, demanding parents in order to be pushed to be the best. If parents simply opt out, you are, in fact weakening the public school system. It is the reason Warren Buffet advocates doing away with private school (not something I agree with, but his point is well taken). If everyone had to be in the public school system then, theoretically, those engaged parents would improve the system for all.

So parents with kids at Whitman, Churchill et al. - What are they doing to improve public schools in the red zone? I know they have booster clubs that raise money for their own schools; do they do anything other than pay taxes in order to help red zone schools? How does someone sending their kid to Carderock help a kid at New Hampshire Estates?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:we have decided to go with a small, private, parochial school for now and my good friends are all going to have a field day with it. they are incredibly pro-public school, and while i am too, the DC public school system seems a bit broken and we are looking for something different for our kids at this time. i, too, am not looking forward to the discussion because there is going to be a lot of eye-rolling, shaming and such.

and yes, it will make me re-think these friendships, which date back 15 years and very much pre-kids.

You deserve the eye rolls.

I do not understand why people don't look into the school system - specifically the clusters (Mo Co) or pyramids (VA?) - before purchasing a home.

Most parochial schools are inferior. When I compare what my daughter is doing in public compared to what her friends are doing in the local parish school, it's like night and day. There is NO differentiation. Kids read the same book, as reading levels aren't taken into account. Why have lexile scores? to collect dust? They assess yet do nothing with the data. Math instruction is mostly seat work, and while a few are pulled for higher level math, the rest is mainly seat work that's not challenging. Most parents don't complain. However, I have a good pal who's a teacher who's now realizing just how dumbed down reading instruction is. So while her daughter's reading at a 9th grade level (She's in 4th.), the book she's currently "studying" in class is at a 3rd grade level.

just amazing how little these teachers know - and even worse, just how low the expectations are for these teachers

Do your research before you buy.

You know nothing about me. You don't know if I own or rent, if I live in DC/MD/or VA, all you care about is feeling superior to other people. I will not engage with you.

[Anonymous]

And you know what? I was worried about what kind of community I would find at my kids' small private but after reading this thread, I would be more worried about the bullying that public school parents seems to condone. This has been absolutely eye opening for me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is this some kind of weird Sahm thing? I live on the hill, and I really can't imagine any of my neighbors giving a flying f about where each other's kids go to school. I am curious to hear about why they make the choices they do so I can learn more, but that's about it. If anything people are extra cautious to seem not to be criticizing each other explicitly or in

Lucky you... I think this is a weird suburb thing. People are definitely wrapped up in this shit out in CC/Beth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:we have decided to go with a small, private, parochial school for now and my good friends are all going to have a field day with it. they are incredibly pro-public school, and while i am too, the DC public school system seems a bit broken and we are looking for something different for our kids at this time. i, too, am not looking forward to the discussion because there is going to be a lot of eye-rolling, shaming and such.

and yes, it will make me re-think these friendships, which date back 15 years and very much pre-kids.

You deserve the eye rolls.

I do not understand why people don't look into the school system - specifically the clusters (Mo Co) or pyramids (VA?) - before purchasing a home.

Most parochial schools are inferior. When I compare what my daughter is doing in public compared to what her friends are doing in the local parish school, it's like night and day. There is NO differentiation. Kids read the same book, as reading levels aren't taken into account. Why have lexile scores? to collect dust? They assess yet do nothing with the data. Math instruction is mostly seat work, and while a few are pulled for higher level math, the rest is mainly seat work that's not challenging. Most parents don't complain. However, I have a good pal who's a teacher who's now realizing just how dumbed down reading instruction is. So while her daughter's reading at a 9th grade level (She's in 4th.), the book she's currently "studying" in class is at a 3rd grade level.

just amazing how little these teachers know - and even worse, just how low the expectations are for these teachers

Do your research before you buy.

But the kids do well, are happy, etc. so why do you care. What if you child could do less, be happier and just as successful?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:!8:37 I agree with you 100%. Public schools need active, engaged, smart, demanding parents in order to be pushed to be the best. If parents simply opt out, you are, in fact weakening the public school system. It is the reason Warren Buffet advocates doing away with private school (not something I agree with, but his point is well taken). If everyone had to be in the public school system then, theoretically, those engaged parents would improve the system for all.

18:37 here again; I guess I'm playing devil's advocate -- we need active & engaged parents and it's a danger to the public school system for too many of us to opt out, but rather than force people to stay or go back into the public schools I've argued that the public schools should do better to keep us . . . I see the downsides of private school drain and have been an advocate for the public schools but also have moved DCs to private when individual needs/family reasons needed to take priority.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:!8:37 I agree with you 100%. Public schools need active, engaged, smart, demanding parents in order to be pushed to be the best. If parents simply opt out, you are, in fact weakening the public school system. It is the reason Warren Buffet advocates doing away with private school (not something I agree with, but his point is well taken). If everyone had to be in the public school system then, theoretically, those engaged parents would improve the system for all.

So parents with kids at Whitman, Churchill et al. - What are they doing to improve public schools in the red zone? I know they have booster clubs that raise money for their own schools; do they do anything other than pay taxes in order to help red zone schools? How does someone sending their kid to Carderock help a kid at New Hampshire Estates?

Many parents at Whitman types of schools take the lead in advocating for better school funding and programs/policies that help across school districts. They also have high expectations & resources (time, money, connections) to hold schools to those expectations. So it's not just school specific, though of course that is often a big focus too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And you know what? I was worried about what kind of community I would find at my kids' small private but after reading this thread, I would be more worried about the bullying that public school parents seems to condone. This has been absolutely eye opening for me.

what?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And you know what? I was worried about what kind of community I would find at my kids' small private but after reading this thread, I would be more worried about the bullying that public school parents seems to condone. This has been absolutely eye opening for me.

Not just condone… clearly it's more like a sport for some of these folks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is this some kind of weird Sahm thing? I live on the hill, and I really can't imagine any of my neighbors giving a flying f about where each other's kids go to school. I am curious to hear about why they make the choices they do so I can learn more, but that's about it. If anything people are extra cautious to seem not to be criticizing each other explicitly or in

Lucky you... I think this is a weird suburb thing. People are definitely wrapped up in this shit out in CC/Beth.

Actually I have found the opposite. Kids in CC/Bethesda go to both private schools and public schools. People in my neighborhood don't really care and the public schools are excellent so there isn't a sense that the public schools being a lesser choice or that people are fleeing the schools. And the demographics don't look that different - plenty of wealthy people in both schools.

Capitol Hill seems a bit more bifurcated, esp for elementary school. There is definitely a group of very strong public school advocates there who do feel like people who are choosing private school are making the public schools weaker.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And you know what? I was worried about what kind of community I would find at my kids' small private but after reading this thread, I would be more worried about the bullying that public school parents seems to condone. This has been absolutely eye opening for me.

Not just condone… clearly it's more like a sport for some of these folks.

+1