If it’s harder then ever to get into top colleges, why do professors complain students now are bad?

[Anonymous]

Many things can be true at once. But research has demonstrated that the internet, "smart"phones and now AI have had a pernicious effect on student learning, all of which has been compounded by covid; the fact that reading is no longer a habitual pastime for most students; and, driven by entitled snowplow parents, both rampant grade inflation and heavy regimentation of extracurriculars and time outside school. The result, as other profs already have mentioned in this thread, has been that students matriculating at college today have nowhere near the critical analytical skills with which they entered college thirty years ago and predictably are incapable of handling the workloads and meeting the academic standards that were prevalent then.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Many things can be true at once. But research has demonstrated that the internet, "smart"phones and now AI have had a pernicious effect on student learning, all of which has been compounded by covid; the fact that reading is no longer a habitual pastime for most students; and, driven by entitled snowplow parents, both rampant grade inflation and heavy regimentation of extracurriculars and time outside school. The result, as other profs already have mentioned in this thread, has been that students matriculating at college today have nowhere near the critical analytical skills with which they entered college thirty years ago and predictably are incapable of handling the workloads and meeting the academic standards that were prevalent then.

If I was a T30, I would say due to this I would want to pull from rigorous privates more and more, the ones where they know there's a track record and do all they can to keep rigor. Ours is relentless to the point where parents and kids complain, until college admit season and kids doing well...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many things can be true at once. But research has demonstrated that the internet, "smart"phones and now AI have had a pernicious effect on student learning, all of which has been compounded by covid; the fact that reading is no longer a habitual pastime for most students; and, driven by entitled snowplow parents, both rampant grade inflation and heavy regimentation of extracurriculars and time outside school. The result, as other profs already have mentioned in this thread, has been that students matriculating at college today have nowhere near the critical analytical skills with which they entered college thirty years ago and predictably are incapable of handling the workloads and meeting the academic standards that were prevalent then.

If I was a T30, I would say due to this I would want to pull from rigorous privates more and more, the ones where they know there's a track record and do all they can to keep rigor. Ours is relentless to the point where parents and kids complain, until college admit season and kids doing well...

Yes, PP. Let’s just write off the kids whose families can’t afford “rigorous privates” or who live in areas where no such schools are available. 🙄

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Colleges admit "pointy" *achievers" who game standardized tests, not well rounded academically and intellectually inclined people.

I thought it's opposite, problem is test option, worst is test blind in UC. No matter how you game SAT/ACT, good score guarantees basic intelligence, unlike heavily inflated GPA. 4.0 from different school could be a mile apart.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many things can be true at once. But research has demonstrated that the internet, "smart"phones and now AI have had a pernicious effect on student learning, all of which has been compounded by covid; the fact that reading is no longer a habitual pastime for most students; and, driven by entitled snowplow parents, both rampant grade inflation and heavy regimentation of extracurriculars and time outside school. The result, as other profs already have mentioned in this thread, has been that students matriculating at college today have nowhere near the critical analytical skills with which they entered college thirty years ago and predictably are incapable of handling the workloads and meeting the academic standards that were prevalent then.

If I was a T30, I would say due to this I would want to pull from rigorous privates more and more, the ones where they know there's a track record and do all they can to keep rigor. Ours is relentless to the point where parents and kids complain, until college admit season and kids doing well...

Yes, PP. Let’s just write off the kids whose families can’t afford “rigorous privates” or who live in areas where no such schools are available. 🙄

Yep, and that’s exactly how you end up with a student body with zero grit or creativity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many things can be true at once. But research has demonstrated that the internet, "smart"phones and now AI have had a pernicious effect on student learning, all of which has been compounded by covid; the fact that reading is no longer a habitual pastime for most students; and, driven by entitled snowplow parents, both rampant grade inflation and heavy regimentation of extracurriculars and time outside school. The result, as other profs already have mentioned in this thread, has been that students matriculating at college today have nowhere near the critical analytical skills with which they entered college thirty years ago and predictably are incapable of handling the workloads and meeting the academic standards that were prevalent then.

If I was a T30, I would say due to this I would want to pull from rigorous privates more and more, the ones where they know there's a track record and do all they can to keep rigor. Ours is relentless to the point where parents and kids complain, until college admit season and kids doing well...

Yes, PP. Let’s just write off the kids whose families can’t afford “rigorous privates” or who live in areas where no such schools are available. 🙄

Yep, and that’s exactly how you end up with a student body with zero grit or creativity.

Keep telling yourself that when the public school kids take their 3rd test retake and all of Calc BC gets B+ or higher, without guardrail entry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Colleges admit "pointy" *achievers" who game standardized tests, not well rounded academically and intellectually inclined people.

Professors are absolutely not referring to these kids when they complain.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many things can be true at once. But research has demonstrated that the internet, "smart"phones and now AI have had a pernicious effect on student learning, all of which has been compounded by covid; the fact that reading is no longer a habitual pastime for most students; and, driven by entitled snowplow parents, both rampant grade inflation and heavy regimentation of extracurriculars and time outside school. The result, as other profs already have mentioned in this thread, has been that students matriculating at college today have nowhere near the critical analytical skills with which they entered college thirty years ago and predictably are incapable of handling the workloads and meeting the academic standards that were prevalent then.

If I was a T30, I would say due to this I would want to pull from rigorous privates more and more, the ones where they know there's a track record and do all they can to keep rigor. Ours is relentless to the point where parents and kids complain, until college admit season and kids doing well...

Yes, PP. Let’s just write off the kids whose families can’t afford “rigorous privates” or who live in areas where no such schools are available. 🙄

Most private are so so, just an observation, among those top smart kids in Olympic team rosters(Math, Physics, Chem, CS..), only 15-25% are from top privates even they are mile-ahead feeder to T5, T10 comparing to top public.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many things can be true at once. But research has demonstrated that the internet, "smart"phones and now AI have had a pernicious effect on student learning, all of which has been compounded by covid; the fact that reading is no longer a habitual pastime for most students; and, driven by entitled snowplow parents, both rampant grade inflation and heavy regimentation of extracurriculars and time outside school. The result, as other profs already have mentioned in this thread, has been that students matriculating at college today have nowhere near the critical analytical skills with which they entered college thirty years ago and predictably are incapable of handling the workloads and meeting the academic standards that were prevalent then.

If I was a T30, I would say due to this I would want to pull from rigorous privates more and more, the ones where they know there's a track record and do all they can to keep rigor. Ours is relentless to the point where parents and kids complain, until college admit season and kids doing well...

Yes, PP. Let’s just write off the kids whose families can’t afford “rigorous privates” or who live in areas where no such schools are available. 🙄

Most private are so so, just an observation, among those top smart kids in Olympic team rosters(Math, Physics, Chem, CS..), only 15-25% are from top privates even they are mile-ahead feeder to T5, T10 comparing to top public.

That's because the Olympic kids are nearly all rich Asian immigrants doing private tutoring, also are (obviously) a tiny fraction of even most elite school admits

[Anonymous]

Didn’t read the thread. But it’s also become easier for kids that satisfy certain institutional priorities to get into top colleges.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many things can be true at once. But research has demonstrated that the internet, "smart"phones and now AI have had a pernicious effect on student learning, all of which has been compounded by covid; the fact that reading is no longer a habitual pastime for most students; and, driven by entitled snowplow parents, both rampant grade inflation and heavy regimentation of extracurriculars and time outside school. The result, as other profs already have mentioned in this thread, has been that students matriculating at college today have nowhere near the critical analytical skills with which they entered college thirty years ago and predictably are incapable of handling the workloads and meeting the academic standards that were prevalent then.

If I was a T30, I would say due to this I would want to pull from rigorous privates more and more, the ones where they know there's a track record and do all they can to keep rigor. Ours is relentless to the point where parents and kids complain, until college admit season and kids doing well...

Yes, PP. Let’s just write off the kids whose families can’t afford “rigorous privates” or who live in areas where no such schools are available. 🙄

Most private are so so, just an observation, among those top smart kids in Olympic team rosters(Math, Physics, Chem, CS..), only 15-25% are from top privates even they are mile-ahead feeder to T5, T10 comparing to top public.

That's because the Olympic kids are nearly all rich Asian immigrants doing private tutoring, also are (obviously) a tiny fraction of even most elite school admits

This, a lot is spent on US Saturday cram schools or private tutors at a very young age through high school. Central and North NJ, for example, has many with summer camps for Math and other Olympiad, even science fairs. Filled with Asian only kids. Also, AoPS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Holistic process selects whoever fits their racial, political, economics or whatever mix. So the selectivity is not about academics.

Racial preference is illegal.
Political preference is bs, conservatives are telling their students not to go to college and on average, are dumber.
Economic status doesn’t really mean much when they’re discussing noticeable declines across all students, including the prep school types.

Segregation was illegal for decades before it was actually eliminated.
It will take a few more litigations and perhaps a few large lawsuits judgements before people take it seriously.

I agree the political stuff is BS. I can't hide my race but I can certainly disguise my political preferences.

Any preferences that are not based on academic ability will lead to less academic ability and more of whatever is being given a preference.

[Anonymous]

Everyone should just send their kids to school.on Saturdays and after school at these cram schools. This is what Asian countries do. Public education is not the be all/end all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many things can be true at once. But research has demonstrated that the internet, "smart"phones and now AI have had a pernicious effect on student learning, all of which has been compounded by covid; the fact that reading is no longer a habitual pastime for most students; and, driven by entitled snowplow parents, both rampant grade inflation and heavy regimentation of extracurriculars and time outside school. The result, as other profs already have mentioned in this thread, has been that students matriculating at college today have nowhere near the critical analytical skills with which they entered college thirty years ago and predictably are incapable of handling the workloads and meeting the academic standards that were prevalent then.

If I was a T30, I would say due to this I would want to pull from rigorous privates more and more, the ones where they know there's a track record and do all they can to keep rigor. Ours is relentless to the point where parents and kids complain, until college admit season and kids doing well...

Yes, PP. Let’s just write off the kids whose families can’t afford “rigorous privates” or who live in areas where no such schools are available. 🙄

Yep, and that’s exactly how you end up with a student body with zero grit or creativity.

Keep telling yourself that when the public school kids take their 3rd test retake and all of Calc BC gets B+ or higher, without guardrail entry.

Interesting that you think this is solely a public school phenomenon. Excessive retakes and grade inflation are a feature of many privates, not to mention a majority of the student body having accommodations. Do you even have a kid in private?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many things can be true at once. But research has demonstrated that the internet, "smart"phones and now AI have had a pernicious effect on student learning, all of which has been compounded by covid; the fact that reading is no longer a habitual pastime for most students; and, driven by entitled snowplow parents, both rampant grade inflation and heavy regimentation of extracurriculars and time outside school. The result, as other profs already have mentioned in this thread, has been that students matriculating at college today have nowhere near the critical analytical skills with which they entered college thirty years ago and predictably are incapable of handling the workloads and meeting the academic standards that were prevalent then.

If I was a T30, I would say due to this I would want to pull from rigorous privates more and more, the ones where they know there's a track record and do all they can to keep rigor. Ours is relentless to the point where parents and kids complain, until college admit season and kids doing well...

Yes, PP. Let’s just write off the kids whose families can’t afford “rigorous privates” or who live in areas where no such schools are available. 🙄

Yep, and that’s exactly how you end up with a student body with zero grit or creativity.

Keep telling yourself that when the public school kids take their 3rd test retake and all of Calc BC gets B+ or higher, without guardrail entry.

Interesting that you think this is solely a public school phenomenon. Excessive retakes and grade inflation are a feature of many privates, not to mention a majority of the student body having accommodations. Do you even have a kid in private?

I do, and this is not true at ours. Even if you have an accommodation, they absolutely still expect the work to be done. Most top privates can "counsel out" severe underperformers.