Charter school funding gap in FY27 budget

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:An unpopular opinion for DCUM- if the charters were properly funded the better ones would blow DCPS out of the water. So many struggle under the costs of facilities and teacher turn over from low salaries. If Charters had money to solve those problems the middling to good ones could be amazing.

+1 on this.

Also, Coolidge has a lot larger and better facilities than DCI which holds around the same number of high schoolers. Sports facilities in particular. DCI could have used the space next to it for a much-needed sports field, but townhouses are going up instead. Now the school is battling neighbors to try to use a nearby park for athletics. The charter schools can't just easily move and buy new buildings left and right, and they aren't provided with enough funds to truly utilize public and DC-owned space like Walter Reed. Meanwhile, there is no way that DCPS could serve all the kids currently in charters - if all of DCI changed to Coolidge overnight, for example.

DCI is approximately the same square footage as Anacostia High School, except DCI has 1,700 students and Anacostia has 250, and Anacostia High School is much, much nicer.

https://washingtonian.com/2014/02/03/anacostia-high-school-renovation-snags-design-award/

This is kinda bonkers. Anacostia High School is 247,000 square feet. That's much, much, MUCH bigger than a Walmart. How do 250 kids occupy 247,000 square feet?

Same story with Ballou. It's 350,000 square feet and has fewer than 600 students. The renovation is gorgeous.

Extremely under-enrolled schools are getting some pretty amazing renovations (but only if they're DCPS). Sorry charters!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The argument that the teacher's union bargained for their bonuses and the charter schools shouldn't benefit is not really a fair argument. The union bargained the bonuses, but not with council on the overall budget. The school system needs to account for those bonuses in their overall budget. The charter schools by law are to get equal funding. It doesn't matter if the teachers union bargained for a benefit. What matters is that the funding between DCPS and the charters schools is the same. If DCPS is giving bonuses, that is up to them. The charter schools should get the same increase by law and may opt to use it for bonuses, raises or something like a new HVAC.

So DCPS teacher should spend significant dues and time to negotiate a raise for the charter teachers?

That's not persuasive either.

You don't seem to understand how markets work. The prevailing rate is the prevailing rate, and it doesn't matter how it became the prevailing rate.

Er, I don't think you know what a market is. You are talking about city government allocating funds between different programs and departments. Budget allocation is *not* a market.

The rate/price/salary is what buyers and sellers agree to. And when sellers -- or buyers -- consolidate, they have more bargaining power.

Because of the existence of the teachers union, the market for public school teachers is cloven from the market for charter school teachers. Although the supply for new teachers for both markets draws from the same pool, the employers are operating under different market dynamics. Therefore, the prevailing market price in the 2 markets is not the same.

Except when one market chooses to match the other. Then they are literally "THE SAME".

AI slop for sure.

So the charter schools have collectively chosen to match DCPS salaries?

Tell me you don't have a clue how charters work without telling me.

There is no "collective" Every charter school (or group of charters) is its own LEA. DCPS is an LEA. Each LEA operates independently, making budget and salary determinations as its own LEA.

I'm the immediate PP. You're expressing frustration with the wrong person. It was the PP who I posed my question to that is confused.

She thinks that charter school teachers should get the same pay what the WTU negotiates for DCPS teachers because it is all one big DC budget.

But you can't just "match" salaries without matching the work conditions and requirements. And then a charter school would no longer be exercising the freedom they have to not run the school the way they think is best.

The situation is very complex, which is why figuring out fair allocations between sectors is complicated.

There was never any deal in which charters agreed to take less money in exchange for more freedom. Charters were set up by Congress to set a separate system because people believed DCPS wasn't doing its job. They're supposed to be equally funded.

Of course not.

But there's still no clear analysis her showing that DCPCS are under-funded. Just a lot of complaints about poor DC decisions to build a handful of monument schools a few years back. We'e got complaints that the teachers are paid less, but that dynamic is not an issue of the funding, at least not directly. We've got a debate about comparative quality of facilities and who has it worse. We've got a little discussion of how DCPS gets funded for programs its required to implement that DCPCSs aren't. Lots of confusion; little clarity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The argument that the teacher's union bargained for their bonuses and the charter schools shouldn't benefit is not really a fair argument. The union bargained the bonuses, but not with council on the overall budget. The school system needs to account for those bonuses in their overall budget. The charter schools by law are to get equal funding. It doesn't matter if the teachers union bargained for a benefit. What matters is that the funding between DCPS and the charters schools is the same. If DCPS is giving bonuses, that is up to them. The charter schools should get the same increase by law and may opt to use it for bonuses, raises or something like a new HVAC.

So DCPS teacher should spend significant dues and time to negotiate a raise for the charter teachers?

That's not persuasive either.

You don't seem to understand how markets work. The prevailing rate is the prevailing rate, and it doesn't matter how it became the prevailing rate.

Er, I don't think you know what a market is. You are talking about city government allocating funds between different programs and departments. Budget allocation is *not* a market.

The rate/price/salary is what buyers and sellers agree to. And when sellers -- or buyers -- consolidate, they have more bargaining power.

Because of the existence of the teachers union, the market for public school teachers is cloven from the market for charter school teachers. Although the supply for new teachers for both markets draws from the same pool, the employers are operating under different market dynamics. Therefore, the prevailing market price in the 2 markets is not the same.

Except when one market chooses to match the other. Then they are literally "THE SAME".

AI slop for sure.

So the charter schools have collectively chosen to match DCPS salaries?

Tell me you don't have a clue how charters work without telling me.

There is no "collective" Every charter school (or group of charters) is its own LEA. DCPS is an LEA. Each LEA operates independently, making budget and salary determinations as its own LEA.

I'm the immediate PP. You're expressing frustration with the wrong person. It was the PP who I posed my question to that is confused.

She thinks that charter school teachers should get the same pay what the WTU negotiates for DCPS teachers because it is all one big DC budget.

But you can't just "match" salaries without matching the work conditions and requirements. And then a charter school would no longer be exercising the freedom they have to not run the school the way they think is best.

The situation is very complex, which is why figuring out fair allocations between sectors is complicated.

I am the PPP you replied to that pointed out this was AI slop. I certainly did not say all charters had to or did match. What I said was that if a charter decides to match salaries then it is one market. You're throwing around WTU talking points that are laughable. Pretending like teaching at Janney is the same as teaching at Houston Elementary.

WTU members sure seem defensive about charters. Why is that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The argument that the teacher's union bargained for their bonuses and the charter schools shouldn't benefit is not really a fair argument. The union bargained the bonuses, but not with council on the overall budget. The school system needs to account for those bonuses in their overall budget. The charter schools by law are to get equal funding. It doesn't matter if the teachers union bargained for a benefit. What matters is that the funding between DCPS and the charters schools is the same. If DCPS is giving bonuses, that is up to them. The charter schools should get the same increase by law and may opt to use it for bonuses, raises or something like a new HVAC.

So DCPS teacher should spend significant dues and time to negotiate a raise for the charter teachers?

That's not persuasive either.

You don't seem to understand how markets work. The prevailing rate is the prevailing rate, and it doesn't matter how it became the prevailing rate.

Er, I don't think you know what a market is. You are talking about city government allocating funds between different programs and departments. Budget allocation is *not* a market.

The rate/price/salary is what buyers and sellers agree to. And when sellers -- or buyers -- consolidate, they have more bargaining power.

Because of the existence of the teachers union, the market for public school teachers is cloven from the market for charter school teachers. Although the supply for new teachers for both markets draws from the same pool, the employers are operating under different market dynamics. Therefore, the prevailing market price in the 2 markets is not the same.

Except when one market chooses to match the other. Then they are literally "THE SAME".

AI slop for sure.

So the charter schools have collectively chosen to match DCPS salaries?

Tell me you don't have a clue how charters work without telling me.

There is no "collective" Every charter school (or group of charters) is its own LEA. DCPS is an LEA. Each LEA operates independently, making budget and salary determinations as its own LEA.

I'm the immediate PP. You're expressing frustration with the wrong person. It was the PP who I posed my question to that is confused.

She thinks that charter school teachers should get the same pay what the WTU negotiates for DCPS teachers because it is all one big DC budget.

But you can't just "match" salaries without matching the work conditions and requirements. And then a charter school would no longer be exercising the freedom they have to not run the school the way they think is best.

The situation is very complex, which is why figuring out fair allocations between sectors is complicated.

There was never any deal in which charters agreed to take less money in exchange for more freedom. Charters were set up by Congress to set a separate system because people believed DCPS wasn't doing its job. They're supposed to be equally funded.

Of course not.

But there's still no clear analysis her showing that DCPCS are under-funded. Just a lot of complaints about poor DC decisions to build a handful of monument schools a few years back. We'e got complaints that the teachers are paid less, but that dynamic is not an issue of the funding, at least not directly. We've got a debate about comparative quality of facilities and who has it worse. We've got a little discussion of how DCPS gets funded for programs its required to implement that DCPCSs aren't. Lots of confusion; little clarity.

The math is the math. DCPS schools are way better funded because of the way facilities are excluded from budgeting. Weird that you don't grasp that simple point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The argument that the teacher's union bargained for their bonuses and the charter schools shouldn't benefit is not really a fair argument. The union bargained the bonuses, but not with council on the overall budget. The school system needs to account for those bonuses in their overall budget. The charter schools by law are to get equal funding. It doesn't matter if the teachers union bargained for a benefit. What matters is that the funding between DCPS and the charters schools is the same. If DCPS is giving bonuses, that is up to them. The charter schools should get the same increase by law and may opt to use it for bonuses, raises or something like a new HVAC.

So DCPS teacher should spend significant dues and time to negotiate a raise for the charter teachers?

That's not persuasive either.

You don't seem to understand how markets work. The prevailing rate is the prevailing rate, and it doesn't matter how it became the prevailing rate.

Er, I don't think you know what a market is. You are talking about city government allocating funds between different programs and departments. Budget allocation is *not* a market.

The rate/price/salary is what buyers and sellers agree to. And when sellers -- or buyers -- consolidate, they have more bargaining power.

Because of the existence of the teachers union, the market for public school teachers is cloven from the market for charter school teachers. Although the supply for new teachers for both markets draws from the same pool, the employers are operating under different market dynamics. Therefore, the prevailing market price in the 2 markets is not the same.

Except when one market chooses to match the other. Then they are literally "THE SAME".

AI slop for sure.

So the charter schools have collectively chosen to match DCPS salaries?

Tell me you don't have a clue how charters work without telling me.

There is no "collective" Every charter school (or group of charters) is its own LEA. DCPS is an LEA. Each LEA operates independently, making budget and salary determinations as its own LEA.

I'm the immediate PP. You're expressing frustration with the wrong person. It was the PP who I posed my question to that is confused.

She thinks that charter school teachers should get the same pay what the WTU negotiates for DCPS teachers because it is all one big DC budget.

But you can't just "match" salaries without matching the work conditions and requirements. And then a charter school would no longer be exercising the freedom they have to not run the school the way they think is best.

The situation is very complex, which is why figuring out fair allocations between sectors is complicated.

There was never any deal in which charters agreed to take less money in exchange for more freedom. Charters were set up by Congress to set a separate system because people believed DCPS wasn't doing its job. They're supposed to be equally funded.

Of course not.

But there's still no clear analysis her showing that DCPCS are under-funded. Just a lot of complaints about poor DC decisions to build a handful of monument schools a few years back. We'e got complaints that the teachers are paid less, but that dynamic is not an issue of the funding, at least not directly. We've got a debate about comparative quality of facilities and who has it worse. We've got a little discussion of how DCPS gets funded for programs its required to implement that DCPCSs aren't. Lots of confusion; little clarity.

The math is the math. DCPS schools are way better funded because of the way facilities are excluded from budgeting. Weird that you don't grasp that simple point.

Can anyone explain how funding works between DCPS? Are major renovations completely outside of DCPS's budget? What about repairs and maintenance -- is it in DGS budget, is it charged to DCPS, or is it nowhere since it doesn't really happen?

[Anonymous]

^^ between DCPS and DGS?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The argument that the teacher's union bargained for their bonuses and the charter schools shouldn't benefit is not really a fair argument. The union bargained the bonuses, but not with council on the overall budget. The school system needs to account for those bonuses in their overall budget. The charter schools by law are to get equal funding. It doesn't matter if the teachers union bargained for a benefit. What matters is that the funding between DCPS and the charters schools is the same. If DCPS is giving bonuses, that is up to them. The charter schools should get the same increase by law and may opt to use it for bonuses, raises or something like a new HVAC.

So DCPS teacher should spend significant dues and time to negotiate a raise for the charter teachers?

That's not persuasive either.

They are not negotiating a raise for charter teachers, the are negotiating for a larger percentage of the DCPS budget to go to teachers. Their negotiation for a raise has nothing to do with the fact that the overall budget for DCPS and charters are required by law to be the equal on a per student basis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The argument that the teacher's union bargained for their bonuses and the charter schools shouldn't benefit is not really a fair argument. The union bargained the bonuses, but not with council on the overall budget. The school system needs to account for those bonuses in their overall budget. The charter schools by law are to get equal funding. It doesn't matter if the teachers union bargained for a benefit. What matters is that the funding between DCPS and the charters schools is the same. If DCPS is giving bonuses, that is up to them. The charter schools should get the same increase by law and may opt to use it for bonuses, raises or something like a new HVAC.

So DCPS teacher should spend significant dues and time to negotiate a raise for the charter teachers?

That's not persuasive either.

You don't seem to understand how markets work. The prevailing rate is the prevailing rate, and it doesn't matter how it became the prevailing rate.

Er, I don't think you know what a market is. You are talking about city government allocating funds between different programs and departments. Budget allocation is *not* a market.

The rate/price/salary is what buyers and sellers agree to. And when sellers -- or buyers -- consolidate, they have more bargaining power.

Because of the existence of the teachers union, the market for public school teachers is cloven from the market for charter school teachers. Although the supply for new teachers for both markets draws from the same pool, the employers are operating under different market dynamics. Therefore, the prevailing market price in the 2 markets is not the same.

Except when one market chooses to match the other. Then they are literally "THE SAME".

AI slop for sure.

So the charter schools have collectively chosen to match DCPS salaries?

Tell me you don't have a clue how charters work without telling me.

There is no "collective" Every charter school (or group of charters) is its own LEA. DCPS is an LEA. Each LEA operates independently, making budget and salary determinations as its own LEA.

I'm the immediate PP. You're expressing frustration with the wrong person. It was the PP who I posed my question to that is confused.

She thinks that charter school teachers should get the same pay what the WTU negotiates for DCPS teachers because it is all one big DC budget.

But you can't just "match" salaries without matching the work conditions and requirements. And then a charter school would no longer be exercising the freedom they have to not run the school the way they think is best.

The situation is very complex, which is why figuring out fair allocations between sectors is complicated.

There was never any deal in which charters agreed to take less money in exchange for more freedom. Charters were set up by Congress to set a separate system because people believed DCPS wasn't doing its job. They're supposed to be equally funded.

Of course not.

But there's still no clear analysis her showing that DCPCS are under-funded. Just a lot of complaints about poor DC decisions to build a handful of monument schools a few years back. We'e got complaints that the teachers are paid less, but that dynamic is not an issue of the funding, at least not directly. We've got a debate about comparative quality of facilities and who has it worse. We've got a little discussion of how DCPS gets funded for programs its required to implement that DCPCSs aren't. Lots of confusion; little clarity.

You are ignoring that DCPS and WTU advocates are saying that bonuses negotiated for teachers so be excluded from what constitutes the DCPS budget. Charter advocates say this is money going into the DCPS system and should be counted as DCPS funding. If it is funding for the DCPS system, it should be matched for charters on a pro-rated per student basis.

[Anonymous]

Ok, WTU negotiated for a bigger piece of the DCPS budget “pie” to go to salaries. But now their share is so big that the remaining slice cannot cover the cost of facilities (including utilities)! So we’re giving them a whole other pie. Meanwhile charters schools just get the one pie, and no matter how they slice it they still have to pay for facilities, and that leaves less for salaries.

[Anonymous]

If DCPS supposedly has it so much better, why not just go to DCPS? You have the right.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If DCPS supposedly has it so much better, why not just go to DCPS? You have the right.

How about just not discriminating against some children? Is that really so much to ask?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The argument that the teacher's union bargained for their bonuses and the charter schools shouldn't benefit is not really a fair argument. The union bargained the bonuses, but not with council on the overall budget. The school system needs to account for those bonuses in their overall budget. The charter schools by law are to get equal funding. It doesn't matter if the teachers union bargained for a benefit. What matters is that the funding between DCPS and the charters schools is the same. If DCPS is giving bonuses, that is up to them. The charter schools should get the same increase by law and may opt to use it for bonuses, raises or something like a new HVAC.

So DCPS teacher should spend significant dues and time to negotiate a raise for the charter teachers?

That's not persuasive either.

You don't seem to understand how markets work. The prevailing rate is the prevailing rate, and it doesn't matter how it became the prevailing rate.

Er, I don't think you know what a market is. You are talking about city government allocating funds between different programs and departments. Budget allocation is *not* a market.

The rate/price/salary is what buyers and sellers agree to. And when sellers -- or buyers -- consolidate, they have more bargaining power.

Because of the existence of the teachers union, the market for public school teachers is cloven from the market for charter school teachers. Although the supply for new teachers for both markets draws from the same pool, the employers are operating under different market dynamics. Therefore, the prevailing market price in the 2 markets is not the same.

Except when one market chooses to match the other. Then they are literally "THE SAME".

AI slop for sure.

So the charter schools have collectively chosen to match DCPS salaries?

Tell me you don't have a clue how charters work without telling me.

There is no "collective" Every charter school (or group of charters) is its own LEA. DCPS is an LEA. Each LEA operates independently, making budget and salary determinations as its own LEA.

I'm the immediate PP. You're expressing frustration with the wrong person. It was the PP who I posed my question to that is confused.

She thinks that charter school teachers should get the same pay what the WTU negotiates for DCPS teachers because it is all one big DC budget.

But you can't just "match" salaries without matching the work conditions and requirements. And then a charter school would no longer be exercising the freedom they have to not run the school the way they think is best.

The situation is very complex, which is why figuring out fair allocations between sectors is complicated.

There was never any deal in which charters agreed to take less money in exchange for more freedom. Charters were set up by Congress to set a separate system because people believed DCPS wasn't doing its job. They're supposed to be equally funded.

Of course not.

But there's still no clear analysis her showing that DCPCS are under-funded. Just a lot of complaints about poor DC decisions to build a handful of monument schools a few years back. We'e got complaints that the teachers are paid less, but that dynamic is not an issue of the funding, at least not directly. We've got a debate about comparative quality of facilities and who has it worse. We've got a little discussion of how DCPS gets funded for programs its required to implement that DCPCSs aren't. Lots of confusion; little clarity.

The math is the math. DCPS schools are way better funded because of the way facilities are excluded from budgeting. Weird that you don't grasp that simple point.

+1

[Anonymous]

Dcps schools are an embarrassment. There are a few okay elementary schools but all pf th middle and high schools here (yes including the “application” schools) are a joke compared to every other school district in the area.

Why our mayor is screwing over the only good option for education in this city makes zero sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If DCPS supposedly has it so much better, why not just go to DCPS? You have the right.

How about just not discriminating against some children? Is that really so much to ask?

And it's not even just some children. It's HALF the students who choose public schools in this city.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If DCPS supposedly has it so much better, why not just go to DCPS? You have the right.

How about just not discriminating against some children? Is that really so much to ask?

If you think DCPS is a better deal, come on over.