Integration and DC Schools -- A high priority? Yay or nay?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This whole line of conversation is ridiculous. One person after another saying,

"Those entitled people advocating for their spoiled kids to get an education even though the kids are already on grade level! So selfish! They should settle for whatever is right for my kid and people just like my kid. It's a public school, so how dare they expect it to meet all kids needs when it should just meet my kids' needs."

Nobody is criticizing accommodations that provide students with access to appropriate education. They're criticizing accommodations that give students a real or perceived advantage in selective admissions processes.

It's not easy to separate though, since the accommodations come from within the public school system and the selective admissions exist largely outside of it.

To be honest, I'm not even criticizing accommodations that give kids a "real or perceived advantage." I'm comfortable with where my kid is at and don't worry much that a kid is going to get "ahead" because of extra time for an ADHD diagnosis.

It's more that I am concerned about a culture where whenever a kid is struggling, the solution is to pursue a medical diagnosis and accommodations. And, to get back to the subject of the thread, I think this is one of the problems when wealthy and/or UMC families dictate how public schools work. Middle and working class kids need to learn resilience and how to adapt to the world around them. UMC and wealthy families often expect the world to adapt to their kid. It's a fundamental difference in approach that burdens middle/working class families.

Could you say more about how it burdens middle/working class families? Decreased resources for struggling students without an IEP? The need to teach and reinforce resilience and adaptability outside the school environment? Or something else?

I think we need to rethink accommodations to focus them back on access, not achievement.

The original point of disability accommodations was to ensure all kids had access to education. Whether that meant ensuring a school could provide a textbook in braille or providing an aide for a child with an intellectual disability that would meant the difference between that child being able to participate in school or not. The goal was to give kids an opportunity to get an education and "even the playing field" for kids who have bigger obstacles to overcome just to participate.

When that's been extended to kids with mild ADHD which in previous generations would not even have been diagnosed as a discernible disability, and when the accommodations are more about maximizing comfort and minimizing challenge than they are about making sure everyone can participate, this skews heavily in favor of wealthy students who's parents are willing to pay to get them tested and retested and who have the time and bandwidth to keep pushing the schools for more "accommodations."

I also think people should consider the degree to which this sort of accommodation, designed not to provide access but to provide achievement, is impacting curriculums in ways a lot of us hate. For instance, do schools stop assigning full books in favor of short passages because that's what teachers want, or what schools want, or does avoiding long texts just make it easier to accommodate the myriad of IEPs and 504s the schools are navigating? To what degree is the shift towards EdTech and using screens and apps in the classroom the result of schools looking to free teachers up for the extra time IEPs demand, or to make it easier for the students with IEPs at the cost of challenging other kids?

The problem is that wealthy parents often can't accept that their kids are average, and they look for medical explanations for their averageness, and then demand the school accommodate their "limitations" which I think sometimes are just the normal limitations of being a human being. When 30-40% of a school population has ADHD, can you really describe that as "neurodivergent"?

Anyway, waiting for the people who feel uncomfortably seen by this comment to yell at me in 3, 2, 1...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, this feels like a place where we should be lifting up Black and Latino voices, not white voices (which is the majority of DCUM). My answer is some mix of I don't know and it depends.

I am white - I do want my kids to go to a diverse school. For me, that means a school that has a good percentage of Black and Latino students, and at least enough white students that my kid doesn't stick out like a sore thumb - I think sending a kid to a school, in America, where there are only a single digit number of kids of their race in the whole school, no matter what race that kid is, is asking a lot of someone really young. Everyone has different priorities, but for me, Garrison and John Lewis are the kinds of schools I want my kid to attend (and we're attempting to lottery to both of them this year).

As to whether DC Prep should try to diversify, or whether schools EOTR should try to diversify, that's a question for the Black community, not a question for me.

It does seem to me like the place where integration is a reasonable goal is places where inbound participation is very low for particular races. There are plenty of white families inbounds for Cleveland, for HD Cooke, for Tubman - why aren't they attending? That's a worthwhile question to ponder. And if there are schools, for example, WOTP that are 70% white and aren't seeing inbound participation from families of color, that's worth digging in to as well. So I do tend to agree with a previous poster that inbound buy in is valuable, and broadly considered to be valuable (even by people like me who are opting out of our IB) and often in DC increases school integration.

Why are you opting out of your IB?

I'm not going to answer detailed questions about this because it would make me pretty identifiable, but I'll say in general terms: Lack of academic peers for my advanced kids, and some social challenges.

But I will say that my experience in having my kids at a DCPS, evaluating schools, learning about the DC school landscape, and navigating this with my own family has shown me that NONE of these issues, in DC at least, are simple, and there are no easy answers. And the only people claiming there are easy answers ("well if DC just did X, everything would be better") generally live in the suburbs (like the Bethesda guy quote upthread). These issues are incredibly complex.

In other words, you don't want your kids going to school with the blacks.

I’m not the person who wrote the original comment, but as a Black parent, I find this kind of response reductive and unfair.

It’s entirely possible for a family to be talking about academic peers and social fit without it being code for “not wanting to be around Black kids.” In fact, in my own case, we moved our son into a predominantly African-American Catholic school that is also high-performing.

One reason? At his previous school, he had essentially no Black male peers in his same socioeconomic band — not one. That matters more than people want to admit. Belonging isn’t just about race. It’s about shared expectations, family context, academic norms, and social environment.

Many white families in DC can reasonably expect that most of the same-race peers around their kids will also be in a similar SES band. That’s not always true for Black families. When it isn’t, the social dynamics can be isolating in ways that are hard to explain unless you’ve seen it up close.

Reducing complex conversations about peer groups and school culture to “you just don’t want your kids around Black people” shuts down nuance and ignores how class and race intersect in real ways.

Thank you for this. My (non-white kid) also moved from a Title 1 school to a high performing school and now has friends of different races, but they all are middle class or UMC and ALL have parents who value education.

When I see someone write something like "you don't want your kids in school with the blacks" I know this is a white mom at a Title 1 school who thinks she is performing an act of social justice by sending her kid there, and doesn't see her own racism.

Not bad points. But as a white mom with a kid in a T1 MS, I can also conclude that for white parents who disparage and won’t even consider the school, I do think there is racism at play. As for black MC/UMC kids, I think the issue is in some ways the same as for the white academically on track kids - the school is rightfully geared towards serving the 90% of kids that make up its main population and so advanced academics is not the #1 concern. That said I personally find the teachers and admins at our school to be very, very good and my kid has learned a ton. I wonder if a black MC would fall through the cracks a bit because everyone would assume they were “high risk” instead of EG pushing them into the advanced math class. At a school where grade level or beyond performance was expected then the median standard would be higher for all kids including black kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This whole line of conversation is ridiculous. One person after another saying,

"Those entitled people advocating for their spoiled kids to get an education even though the kids are already on grade level! So selfish! They should settle for whatever is right for my kid and people just like my kid. It's a public school, so how dare they expect it to meet all kids needs when it should just meet my kids' needs."

Nobody is criticizing accommodations that provide students with access to appropriate education. They're criticizing accommodations that give students a real or perceived advantage in selective admissions processes.

It's not easy to separate though, since the accommodations come from within the public school system and the selective admissions exist largely outside of it.

To be honest, I'm not even criticizing accommodations that give kids a "real or perceived advantage." I'm comfortable with where my kid is at and don't worry much that a kid is going to get "ahead" because of extra time for an ADHD diagnosis.

It's more that I am concerned about a culture where whenever a kid is struggling, the solution is to pursue a medical diagnosis and accommodations. And, to get back to the subject of the thread, I think this is one of the problems when wealthy and/or UMC families dictate how public schools work. Middle and working class kids need to learn resilience and how to adapt to the world around them. UMC and wealthy families often expect the world to adapt to their kid. It's a fundamental difference in approach that burdens middle/working class families.

Could you say more about how it burdens middle/working class families? Decreased resources for struggling students without an IEP? The need to teach and reinforce resilience and adaptability outside the school environment? Or something else?

I think we need to rethink accommodations to focus them back on access, not achievement.

The original point of disability accommodations was to ensure all kids had access to education. Whether that meant ensuring a school could provide a textbook in braille or providing an aide for a child with an intellectual disability that would meant the difference between that child being able to participate in school or not. The goal was to give kids an opportunity to get an education and "even the playing field" for kids who have bigger obstacles to overcome just to participate.

When that's been extended to kids with mild ADHD which in previous generations would not even have been diagnosed as a discernible disability, and when the accommodations are more about maximizing comfort and minimizing challenge than they are about making sure everyone can participate, this skews heavily in favor of wealthy students who's parents are willing to pay to get them tested and retested and who have the time and bandwidth to keep pushing the schools for more "accommodations."

I also think people should consider the degree to which this sort of accommodation, designed not to provide access but to provide achievement, is impacting curriculums in ways a lot of us hate. For instance, do schools stop assigning full books in favor of short passages because that's what teachers want, or what schools want, or does avoiding long texts just make it easier to accommodate the myriad of IEPs and 504s the schools are navigating? To what degree is the shift towards EdTech and using screens and apps in the classroom the result of schools looking to free teachers up for the extra time IEPs demand, or to make it easier for the students with IEPs at the cost of challenging other kids?

The problem is that wealthy parents often can't accept that their kids are average, and they look for medical explanations for their averageness, and then demand the school accommodate their "limitations" which I think sometimes are just the normal limitations of being a human being. When 30-40% of a school population has ADHD, can you really describe that as "neurodivergent"?

Anyway, waiting for the people who feel uncomfortably seen by this comment to yell at me in 3, 2, 1...

I agree with this. Accommodations were meant to ensure access — real participation — and we shouldn’t lose sight of the history of kids with disabilities being excluded.

But I also think we need to be honest about a separate issue: Tier 1 instruction shouldn’t be redesigned downward for everyone. There’s a difference between adding supports/scaffolds and shrinking the baseline curriculum (e.g., avoiding whole books, dialing back rigor, relying on shorter passages or edtech because it’s easier to manage IEP load).

Set a clear, ambitious Tier 1 academic baseline, then build accommodations and alternative pathways around it. Inclusion doesn’t have to mean homogenization.

I think part of the tension is that for some people, if a curriculum isn’t designed to be fully “accessible” across the entire neuro/disability spectrum from the outset, they see that as inherently unjust.

But that assumes justice requires a single, universally designed baseline.

It’s possible for a curriculum to be pedagogically sound and appropriately rigorous for on-grade-level students — and still require scaffolds, supports, or alternative pathways for some learners. That doesn’t make the baseline unjust. It just means different students need different things.

The key question is whether supports are additive, or whether we’re redefining Tier 1 downward so that no one is meaningfully challenged. Inclusion shouldn’t require flattening.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, this feels like a place where we should be lifting up Black and Latino voices, not white voices (which is the majority of DCUM). My answer is some mix of I don't know and it depends.

I am white - I do want my kids to go to a diverse school. For me, that means a school that has a good percentage of Black and Latino students, and at least enough white students that my kid doesn't stick out like a sore thumb - I think sending a kid to a school, in America, where there are only a single digit number of kids of their race in the whole school, no matter what race that kid is, is asking a lot of someone really young. Everyone has different priorities, but for me, Garrison and John Lewis are the kinds of schools I want my kid to attend (and we're attempting to lottery to both of them this year).

As to whether DC Prep should try to diversify, or whether schools EOTR should try to diversify, that's a question for the Black community, not a question for me.

It does seem to me like the place where integration is a reasonable goal is places where inbound participation is very low for particular races. There are plenty of white families inbounds for Cleveland, for HD Cooke, for Tubman - why aren't they attending? That's a worthwhile question to ponder. And if there are schools, for example, WOTP that are 70% white and aren't seeing inbound participation from families of color, that's worth digging in to as well. So I do tend to agree with a previous poster that inbound buy in is valuable, and broadly considered to be valuable (even by people like me who are opting out of our IB) and often in DC increases school integration.

Why are you opting out of your IB?

I'm not going to answer detailed questions about this because it would make me pretty identifiable, but I'll say in general terms: Lack of academic peers for my advanced kids, and some social challenges.

But I will say that my experience in having my kids at a DCPS, evaluating schools, learning about the DC school landscape, and navigating this with my own family has shown me that NONE of these issues, in DC at least, are simple, and there are no easy answers. And the only people claiming there are easy answers ("well if DC just did X, everything would be better") generally live in the suburbs (like the Bethesda guy quote upthread). These issues are incredibly complex.

In other words, you don't want your kids going to school with the blacks.

I’m not the person who wrote the original comment, but as a Black parent, I find this kind of response reductive and unfair.

It’s entirely possible for a family to be talking about academic peers and social fit without it being code for “not wanting to be around Black kids.” In fact, in my own case, we moved our son into a predominantly African-American Catholic school that is also high-performing.

One reason? At his previous school, he had essentially no Black male peers in his same socioeconomic band — not one. That matters more than people want to admit. Belonging isn’t just about race. It’s about shared expectations, family context, academic norms, and social environment.

Many white families in DC can reasonably expect that most of the same-race peers around their kids will also be in a similar SES band. That’s not always true for Black families. When it isn’t, the social dynamics can be isolating in ways that are hard to explain unless you’ve seen it up close.

Reducing complex conversations about peer groups and school culture to “you just don’t want your kids around Black people” shuts down nuance and ignores how class and race intersect in real ways.

Thank you for this. My (non-white kid) also moved from a Title 1 school to a high performing school and now has friends of different races, but they all are middle class or UMC and ALL have parents who value education.

When I see someone write something like "you don't want your kids in school with the blacks" I know this is a white mom at a Title 1 school who thinks she is performing an act of social justice by sending her kid there, and doesn't see her own racism.

Not bad points. But as a white mom with a kid in a T1 MS, I can also conclude that for white parents who disparage and won’t even consider the school, I do think there is racism at play. As for black MC/UMC kids, I think the issue is in some ways the same as for the white academically on track kids - the school is rightfully geared towards serving the 90% of kids that make up its main population and so advanced academics is not the #1 concern. That said I personally find the teachers and admins at our school to be very, very good and my kid has learned a ton. I wonder if a black MC would fall through the cracks a bit because everyone would assume they were “high risk” instead of EG pushing them into the advanced math class. At a school where grade level or beyond performance was expected then the median standard would be higher for all kids including black kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, this feels like a place where we should be lifting up Black and Latino voices, not white voices (which is the majority of DCUM). My answer is some mix of I don't know and it depends.

I am white - I do want my kids to go to a diverse school. For me, that means a school that has a good percentage of Black and Latino students, and at least enough white students that my kid doesn't stick out like a sore thumb - I think sending a kid to a school, in America, where there are only a single digit number of kids of their race in the whole school, no matter what race that kid is, is asking a lot of someone really young. Everyone has different priorities, but for me, Garrison and John Lewis are the kinds of schools I want my kid to attend (and we're attempting to lottery to both of them this year).

As to whether DC Prep should try to diversify, or whether schools EOTR should try to diversify, that's a question for the Black community, not a question for me.

It does seem to me like the place where integration is a reasonable goal is places where inbound participation is very low for particular races. There are plenty of white families inbounds for Cleveland, for HD Cooke, for Tubman - why aren't they attending? That's a worthwhile question to ponder. And if there are schools, for example, WOTP that are 70% white and aren't seeing inbound participation from families of color, that's worth digging in to as well. So I do tend to agree with a previous poster that inbound buy in is valuable, and broadly considered to be valuable (even by people like me who are opting out of our IB) and often in DC increases school integration.

Why are you opting out of your IB?

I'm not going to answer detailed questions about this because it would make me pretty identifiable, but I'll say in general terms: Lack of academic peers for my advanced kids, and some social challenges.

But I will say that my experience in having my kids at a DCPS, evaluating schools, learning about the DC school landscape, and navigating this with my own family has shown me that NONE of these issues, in DC at least, are simple, and there are no easy answers. And the only people claiming there are easy answers ("well if DC just did X, everything would be better") generally live in the suburbs (like the Bethesda guy quote upthread). These issues are incredibly complex.

In other words, you don't want your kids going to school with the blacks.

I’m not the person who wrote the original comment, but as a Black parent, I find this kind of response reductive and unfair.

It’s entirely possible for a family to be talking about academic peers and social fit without it being code for “not wanting to be around Black kids.” In fact, in my own case, we moved our son into a predominantly African-American Catholic school that is also high-performing.

One reason? At his previous school, he had essentially no Black male peers in his same socioeconomic band — not one. That matters more than people want to admit. Belonging isn’t just about race. It’s about shared expectations, family context, academic norms, and social environment.

Many white families in DC can reasonably expect that most of the same-race peers around their kids will also be in a similar SES band. That’s not always true for Black families. When it isn’t, the social dynamics can be isolating in ways that are hard to explain unless you’ve seen it up close.

Reducing complex conversations about peer groups and school culture to “you just don’t want your kids around Black people” shuts down nuance and ignores how class and race intersect in real ways.

Thank you for this. My (non-white kid) also moved from a Title 1 school to a high performing school and now has friends of different races, but they all are middle class or UMC and ALL have parents who value education.

When I see someone write something like "you don't want your kids in school with the blacks" I know this is a white mom at a Title 1 school who thinks she is performing an act of social justice by sending her kid there, and doesn't see her own racism.

Not bad points. But as a white mom with a kid in a T1 MS, I can also conclude that for white parents who disparage and won’t even consider the school, I do think there is racism at play. As for black MC/UMC kids, I think the issue is in some ways the same as for the white academically on track kids - the school is rightfully geared towards serving the 90% of kids that make up its main population and so advanced academics is not the #1 concern. That said I personally find the teachers and admins at our school to be very, very good and my kid has learned a ton. I wonder if a black MC would fall through the cracks a bit because everyone would assume they were “high risk” instead of EG pushing them into the advanced math class. At a school where grade level or beyond performance was expected then the median standard would be higher for all kids including black kids.

I have such mixed feelings about this. I am white and my white kids attended a T1 elementary school. We had a great experience at that school as a family and have zero regrets about going. But also our experience with 4th and 5th grade is why my kids do not attend the T1 middle school it fed into. It's genuinely not about race. T1 doesn't mean "majority black" although in DC that is functionally what happens. It means a higher percentage of at risk kids. Well as kids get older, the negative impacts of being at risk start to manifest in ways that are hard on other kids and can't be resolved with extra tutoring or more skilled teachers or after school programming.

I sometimes have guilt about leaving our feeder pattern for a charter, especially because we of course know families who are at the MS and are happy and it was hard to separate my kids from friends. Our charter is only about 55% white, so it's not like it's not a diverse community, though for the first time my kids are in the majority. But the real issue is just recognizing what it means for a kid to be at risk (again, it doesn't mean they are black or hispanic -- most black and hispanic kids in DC are not at risk) and thinking about what it means for a school to have a high concentration of kids with those challenges at the school.

I do think people often avoid their IB or T1 schools in general because of subconscious racist attitudes. But I also have learned first hand the challenges of having a school with a large concentration of at risk kids (who happen to be black) and I don't blame parents of any race for not wanting their kids to attend schools with those issues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, this feels like a place where we should be lifting up Black and Latino voices, not white voices (which is the majority of DCUM). My answer is some mix of I don't know and it depends.

I am white - I do want my kids to go to a diverse school. For me, that means a school that has a good percentage of Black and Latino students, and at least enough white students that my kid doesn't stick out like a sore thumb - I think sending a kid to a school, in America, where there are only a single digit number of kids of their race in the whole school, no matter what race that kid is, is asking a lot of someone really young. Everyone has different priorities, but for me, Garrison and John Lewis are the kinds of schools I want my kid to attend (and we're attempting to lottery to both of them this year).

As to whether DC Prep should try to diversify, or whether schools EOTR should try to diversify, that's a question for the Black community, not a question for me.

It does seem to me like the place where integration is a reasonable goal is places where inbound participation is very low for particular races. There are plenty of white families inbounds for Cleveland, for HD Cooke, for Tubman - why aren't they attending? That's a worthwhile question to ponder. And if there are schools, for example, WOTP that are 70% white and aren't seeing inbound participation from families of color, that's worth digging in to as well. So I do tend to agree with a previous poster that inbound buy in is valuable, and broadly considered to be valuable (even by people like me who are opting out of our IB) and often in DC increases school integration.

Why are you opting out of your IB?

I'm not going to answer detailed questions about this because it would make me pretty identifiable, but I'll say in general terms: Lack of academic peers for my advanced kids, and some social challenges.

But I will say that my experience in having my kids at a DCPS, evaluating schools, learning about the DC school landscape, and navigating this with my own family has shown me that NONE of these issues, in DC at least, are simple, and there are no easy answers. And the only people claiming there are easy answers ("well if DC just did X, everything would be better") generally live in the suburbs (like the Bethesda guy quote upthread). These issues are incredibly complex.

In other words, you don't want your kids going to school with the blacks.

I’m not the person who wrote the original comment, but as a Black parent, I find this kind of response reductive and unfair.

It’s entirely possible for a family to be talking about academic peers and social fit without it being code for “not wanting to be around Black kids.” In fact, in my own case, we moved our son into a predominantly African-American Catholic school that is also high-performing.

One reason? At his previous school, he had essentially no Black male peers in his same socioeconomic band — not one. That matters more than people want to admit. Belonging isn’t just about race. It’s about shared expectations, family context, academic norms, and social environment.

Many white families in DC can reasonably expect that most of the same-race peers around their kids will also be in a similar SES band. That’s not always true for Black families. When it isn’t, the social dynamics can be isolating in ways that are hard to explain unless you’ve seen it up close.

Reducing complex conversations about peer groups and school culture to “you just don’t want your kids around Black people” shuts down nuance and ignores how class and race intersect in real ways.

Thank you for this. My (non-white kid) also moved from a Title 1 school to a high performing school and now has friends of different races, but they all are middle class or UMC and ALL have parents who value education.

When I see someone write something like "you don't want your kids in school with the blacks" I know this is a white mom at a Title 1 school who thinks she is performing an act of social justice by sending her kid there, and doesn't see her own racism.

Not bad points. But as a white mom with a kid in a T1 MS, I can also conclude that for white parents who disparage and won’t even consider the school, I do think there is racism at play. As for black MC/UMC kids, I think the issue is in some ways the same as for the white academically on track kids - the school is rightfully geared towards serving the 90% of kids that make up its main population and so advanced academics is not the #1 concern. That said I personally find the teachers and admins at our school to be very, very good and my kid has learned a ton. I wonder if a black MC would fall through the cracks a bit because everyone would assume they were “high risk” instead of EG pushing them into the advanced math class. At a school where grade level or beyond performance was expected then the median standard would be higher for all kids including black kids.

A mind reader, everyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, this feels like a place where we should be lifting up Black and Latino voices, not white voices (which is the majority of DCUM). My answer is some mix of I don't know and it depends.

I am white - I do want my kids to go to a diverse school. For me, that means a school that has a good percentage of Black and Latino students, and at least enough white students that my kid doesn't stick out like a sore thumb - I think sending a kid to a school, in America, where there are only a single digit number of kids of their race in the whole school, no matter what race that kid is, is asking a lot of someone really young. Everyone has different priorities, but for me, Garrison and John Lewis are the kinds of schools I want my kid to attend (and we're attempting to lottery to both of them this year).

As to whether DC Prep should try to diversify, or whether schools EOTR should try to diversify, that's a question for the Black community, not a question for me.

It does seem to me like the place where integration is a reasonable goal is places where inbound participation is very low for particular races. There are plenty of white families inbounds for Cleveland, for HD Cooke, for Tubman - why aren't they attending? That's a worthwhile question to ponder. And if there are schools, for example, WOTP that are 70% white and aren't seeing inbound participation from families of color, that's worth digging in to as well. So I do tend to agree with a previous poster that inbound buy in is valuable, and broadly considered to be valuable (even by people like me who are opting out of our IB) and often in DC increases school integration.

Why are you opting out of your IB?

I'm not going to answer detailed questions about this because it would make me pretty identifiable, but I'll say in general terms: Lack of academic peers for my advanced kids, and some social challenges.

But I will say that my experience in having my kids at a DCPS, evaluating schools, learning about the DC school landscape, and navigating this with my own family has shown me that NONE of these issues, in DC at least, are simple, and there are no easy answers. And the only people claiming there are easy answers ("well if DC just did X, everything would be better") generally live in the suburbs (like the Bethesda guy quote upthread). These issues are incredibly complex.

In other words, you don't want your kids going to school with the blacks.

I’m not the person who wrote the original comment, but as a Black parent, I find this kind of response reductive and unfair.

It’s entirely possible for a family to be talking about academic peers and social fit without it being code for “not wanting to be around Black kids.” In fact, in my own case, we moved our son into a predominantly African-American Catholic school that is also high-performing.

One reason? At his previous school, he had essentially no Black male peers in his same socioeconomic band — not one. That matters more than people want to admit. Belonging isn’t just about race. It’s about shared expectations, family context, academic norms, and social environment.

Many white families in DC can reasonably expect that most of the same-race peers around their kids will also be in a similar SES band. That’s not always true for Black families. When it isn’t, the social dynamics can be isolating in ways that are hard to explain unless you’ve seen it up close.

Reducing complex conversations about peer groups and school culture to “you just don’t want your kids around Black people” shuts down nuance and ignores how class and race intersect in real ways.

Thank you for this. My (non-white kid) also moved from a Title 1 school to a high performing school and now has friends of different races, but they all are middle class or UMC and ALL have parents who value education.

When I see someone write something like "you don't want your kids in school with the blacks" I know this is a white mom at a Title 1 school who thinks she is performing an act of social justice by sending her kid there, and doesn't see her own racism.

Not bad points. But as a white mom with a kid in a T1 MS, I can also conclude that for white parents who disparage and won’t even consider the school, I do think there is racism at play. As for black MC/UMC kids, I think the issue is in some ways the same as for the white academically on track kids - the school is rightfully geared towards serving the 90% of kids that make up its main population and so advanced academics is not the #1 concern. That said I personally find the teachers and admins at our school to be very, very good and my kid has learned a ton. I wonder if a black MC would fall through the cracks a bit because everyone would assume they were “high risk” instead of EG pushing them into the advanced math class. At a school where grade level or beyond performance was expected then the median standard would be higher for all kids including black kids.

A mind reader, everyone.

Lots of convuluted thinking going on. "When UMC black families choose a good school, it's because they want a good education for their child. When UMC white families choose a good school, its because of racism."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, this feels like a place where we should be lifting up Black and Latino voices, not white voices (which is the majority of DCUM). My answer is some mix of I don't know and it depends.

I am white - I do want my kids to go to a diverse school. For me, that means a school that has a good percentage of Black and Latino students, and at least enough white students that my kid doesn't stick out like a sore thumb - I think sending a kid to a school, in America, where there are only a single digit number of kids of their race in the whole school, no matter what race that kid is, is asking a lot of someone really young. Everyone has different priorities, but for me, Garrison and John Lewis are the kinds of schools I want my kid to attend (and we're attempting to lottery to both of them this year).

As to whether DC Prep should try to diversify, or whether schools EOTR should try to diversify, that's a question for the Black community, not a question for me.

It does seem to me like the place where integration is a reasonable goal is places where inbound participation is very low for particular races. There are plenty of white families inbounds for Cleveland, for HD Cooke, for Tubman - why aren't they attending? That's a worthwhile question to ponder. And if there are schools, for example, WOTP that are 70% white and aren't seeing inbound participation from families of color, that's worth digging in to as well. So I do tend to agree with a previous poster that inbound buy in is valuable, and broadly considered to be valuable (even by people like me who are opting out of our IB) and often in DC increases school integration.

Why are you opting out of your IB?

I'm not going to answer detailed questions about this because it would make me pretty identifiable, but I'll say in general terms: Lack of academic peers for my advanced kids, and some social challenges.

But I will say that my experience in having my kids at a DCPS, evaluating schools, learning about the DC school landscape, and navigating this with my own family has shown me that NONE of these issues, in DC at least, are simple, and there are no easy answers. And the only people claiming there are easy answers ("well if DC just did X, everything would be better") generally live in the suburbs (like the Bethesda guy quote upthread). These issues are incredibly complex.

In other words, you don't want your kids going to school with the blacks.

I’m not the person who wrote the original comment, but as a Black parent, I find this kind of response reductive and unfair.

It’s entirely possible for a family to be talking about academic peers and social fit without it being code for “not wanting to be around Black kids.” In fact, in my own case, we moved our son into a predominantly African-American Catholic school that is also high-performing.

One reason? At his previous school, he had essentially no Black male peers in his same socioeconomic band — not one. That matters more than people want to admit. Belonging isn’t just about race. It’s about shared expectations, family context, academic norms, and social environment.

Many white families in DC can reasonably expect that most of the same-race peers around their kids will also be in a similar SES band. That’s not always true for Black families. When it isn’t, the social dynamics can be isolating in ways that are hard to explain unless you’ve seen it up close.

Reducing complex conversations about peer groups and school culture to “you just don’t want your kids around Black people” shuts down nuance and ignores how class and race intersect in real ways.

Thank you for this. My (non-white kid) also moved from a Title 1 school to a high performing school and now has friends of different races, but they all are middle class or UMC and ALL have parents who value education.

When I see someone write something like "you don't want your kids in school with the blacks" I know this is a white mom at a Title 1 school who thinks she is performing an act of social justice by sending her kid there, and doesn't see her own racism.

Not bad points. But as a white mom with a kid in a T1 MS, I can also conclude that for white parents who disparage and won’t even consider the school, I do think there is racism at play. As for black MC/UMC kids, I think the issue is in some ways the same as for the white academically on track kids - the school is rightfully geared towards serving the 90% of kids that make up its main population and so advanced academics is not the #1 concern. That said I personally find the teachers and admins at our school to be very, very good and my kid has learned a ton. I wonder if a black MC would fall through the cracks a bit because everyone would assume they were “high risk” instead of EG pushing them into the advanced math class. At a school where grade level or beyond performance was expected then the median standard would be higher for all kids including black kids.

A mind reader, everyone.

Lots of convuluted thinking going on. "When UMC black families choose a good school, it's because they want a good education for their child. When UMC white families choose a good school, it's because of racism."

You joke, but this is absolutely the prevailing belief among a lot of people in DC. It's exhausting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, this feels like a place where we should be lifting up Black and Latino voices, not white voices (which is the majority of DCUM). My answer is some mix of I don't know and it depends.

I am white - I do want my kids to go to a diverse school. For me, that means a school that has a good percentage of Black and Latino students, and at least enough white students that my kid doesn't stick out like a sore thumb - I think sending a kid to a school, in America, where there are only a single digit number of kids of their race in the whole school, no matter what race that kid is, is asking a lot of someone really young. Everyone has different priorities, but for me, Garrison and John Lewis are the kinds of schools I want my kid to attend (and we're attempting to lottery to both of them this year).

As to whether DC Prep should try to diversify, or whether schools EOTR should try to diversify, that's a question for the Black community, not a question for me.

It does seem to me like the place where integration is a reasonable goal is places where inbound participation is very low for particular races. There are plenty of white families inbounds for Cleveland, for HD Cooke, for Tubman - why aren't they attending? That's a worthwhile question to ponder. And if there are schools, for example, WOTP that are 70% white and aren't seeing inbound participation from families of color, that's worth digging in to as well. So I do tend to agree with a previous poster that inbound buy in is valuable, and broadly considered to be valuable (even by people like me who are opting out of our IB) and often in DC increases school integration.

Why are you opting out of your IB?

I'm not going to answer detailed questions about this because it would make me pretty identifiable, but I'll say in general terms: Lack of academic peers for my advanced kids, and some social challenges.

But I will say that my experience in having my kids at a DCPS, evaluating schools, learning about the DC school landscape, and navigating this with my own family has shown me that NONE of these issues, in DC at least, are simple, and there are no easy answers. And the only people claiming there are easy answers ("well if DC just did X, everything would be better") generally live in the suburbs (like the Bethesda guy quote upthread). These issues are incredibly complex.

In other words, you don't want your kids going to school with the blacks.

I’m not the person who wrote the original comment, but as a Black parent, I find this kind of response reductive and unfair.

It’s entirely possible for a family to be talking about academic peers and social fit without it being code for “not wanting to be around Black kids.” In fact, in my own case, we moved our son into a predominantly African-American Catholic school that is also high-performing.

One reason? At his previous school, he had essentially no Black male peers in his same socioeconomic band — not one. That matters more than people want to admit. Belonging isn’t just about race. It’s about shared expectations, family context, academic norms, and social environment.

Many white families in DC can reasonably expect that most of the same-race peers around their kids will also be in a similar SES band. That’s not always true for Black families. When it isn’t, the social dynamics can be isolating in ways that are hard to explain unless you’ve seen it up close.

Reducing complex conversations about peer groups and school culture to “you just don’t want your kids around Black people” shuts down nuance and ignores how class and race intersect in real ways.

Thank you for this. My (non-white kid) also moved from a Title 1 school to a high performing school and now has friends of different races, but they all are middle class or UMC and ALL have parents who value education.

When I see someone write something like "you don't want your kids in school with the blacks" I know this is a white mom at a Title 1 school who thinks she is performing an act of social justice by sending her kid there, and doesn't see her own racism.

Not bad points. But as a white mom with a kid in a T1 MS, I can also conclude that for white parents who disparage and won’t even consider the school, I do think there is racism at play. As for black MC/UMC kids, I think the issue is in some ways the same as for the white academically on track kids - the school is rightfully geared towards serving the 90% of kids that make up its main population and so advanced academics is not the #1 concern. That said I personally find the teachers and admins at our school to be very, very good and my kid has learned a ton. I wonder if a black MC would fall through the cracks a bit because everyone would assume they were “high risk” instead of EG pushing them into the advanced math class. At a school where grade level or beyond performance was expected then the median standard would be higher for all kids including black kids.

A mind reader, everyone.

Lots of convuluted thinking going on. "When UMC black families choose a good school, it's because they want a good education for their child. When UMC white families choose a good school, its because of racism."

The two families are not equivalent in their motivations and beliefs, obviously.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, this feels like a place where we should be lifting up Black and Latino voices, not white voices (which is the majority of DCUM). My answer is some mix of I don't know and it depends.

I am white - I do want my kids to go to a diverse school. For me, that means a school that has a good percentage of Black and Latino students, and at least enough white students that my kid doesn't stick out like a sore thumb - I think sending a kid to a school, in America, where there are only a single digit number of kids of their race in the whole school, no matter what race that kid is, is asking a lot of someone really young. Everyone has different priorities, but for me, Garrison and John Lewis are the kinds of schools I want my kid to attend (and we're attempting to lottery to both of them this year).

As to whether DC Prep should try to diversify, or whether schools EOTR should try to diversify, that's a question for the Black community, not a question for me.

It does seem to me like the place where integration is a reasonable goal is places where inbound participation is very low for particular races. There are plenty of white families inbounds for Cleveland, for HD Cooke, for Tubman - why aren't they attending? That's a worthwhile question to ponder. And if there are schools, for example, WOTP that are 70% white and aren't seeing inbound participation from families of color, that's worth digging in to as well. So I do tend to agree with a previous poster that inbound buy in is valuable, and broadly considered to be valuable (even by people like me who are opting out of our IB) and often in DC increases school integration.

Why are you opting out of your IB?

I'm not going to answer detailed questions about this because it would make me pretty identifiable, but I'll say in general terms: Lack of academic peers for my advanced kids, and some social challenges.

But I will say that my experience in having my kids at a DCPS, evaluating schools, learning about the DC school landscape, and navigating this with my own family has shown me that NONE of these issues, in DC at least, are simple, and there are no easy answers. And the only people claiming there are easy answers ("well if DC just did X, everything would be better") generally live in the suburbs (like the Bethesda guy quote upthread). These issues are incredibly complex.

In other words, you don't want your kids going to school with the blacks.

I’m not the person who wrote the original comment, but as a Black parent, I find this kind of response reductive and unfair.

It’s entirely possible for a family to be talking about academic peers and social fit without it being code for “not wanting to be around Black kids.” In fact, in my own case, we moved our son into a predominantly African-American Catholic school that is also high-performing.

One reason? At his previous school, he had essentially no Black male peers in his same socioeconomic band — not one. That matters more than people want to admit. Belonging isn’t just about race. It’s about shared expectations, family context, academic norms, and social environment.

Many white families in DC can reasonably expect that most of the same-race peers around their kids will also be in a similar SES band. That’s not always true for Black families. When it isn’t, the social dynamics can be isolating in ways that are hard to explain unless you’ve seen it up close.

Reducing complex conversations about peer groups and school culture to “you just don’t want your kids around Black people” shuts down nuance and ignores how class and race intersect in real ways.

Thank you for this. My (non-white kid) also moved from a Title 1 school to a high performing school and now has friends of different races, but they all are middle class or UMC and ALL have parents who value education.

When I see someone write something like "you don't want your kids in school with the blacks" I know this is a white mom at a Title 1 school who thinks she is performing an act of social justice by sending her kid there, and doesn't see her own racism.

Not bad points. But as a white mom with a kid in a T1 MS, I can also conclude that for white parents who disparage and won’t even consider the school, I do think there is racism at play. As for black MC/UMC kids, I think the issue is in some ways the same as for the white academically on track kids - the school is rightfully geared towards serving the 90% of kids that make up its main population and so advanced academics is not the #1 concern. That said I personally find the teachers and admins at our school to be very, very good and my kid has learned a ton. I wonder if a black MC would fall through the cracks a bit because everyone would assume they were “high risk” instead of EG pushing them into the advanced math class. At a school where grade level or beyond performance was expected then the median standard would be higher for all kids including black kids.

A mind reader, everyone.

Lots of convuluted thinking going on. "When UMC black families choose a good school, it's because they want a good education for their child. When UMC white families choose a good school, its because of racism."

The two families are not equivalent in their motivations and beliefs, obviously.

Also - there is a difference between chosing a school and disparaging a school. The latter is where the implied or even unconscious racial bias plays out. If I hadn’t lived through the process myself I wouldn’t be so aware of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, this feels like a place where we should be lifting up Black and Latino voices, not white voices (which is the majority of DCUM). My answer is some mix of I don't know and it depends.

I am white - I do want my kids to go to a diverse school. For me, that means a school that has a good percentage of Black and Latino students, and at least enough white students that my kid doesn't stick out like a sore thumb - I think sending a kid to a school, in America, where there are only a single digit number of kids of their race in the whole school, no matter what race that kid is, is asking a lot of someone really young. Everyone has different priorities, but for me, Garrison and John Lewis are the kinds of schools I want my kid to attend (and we're attempting to lottery to both of them this year).

As to whether DC Prep should try to diversify, or whether schools EOTR should try to diversify, that's a question for the Black community, not a question for me.

It does seem to me like the place where integration is a reasonable goal is places where inbound participation is very low for particular races. There are plenty of white families inbounds for Cleveland, for HD Cooke, for Tubman - why aren't they attending? That's a worthwhile question to ponder. And if there are schools, for example, WOTP that are 70% white and aren't seeing inbound participation from families of color, that's worth digging in to as well. So I do tend to agree with a previous poster that inbound buy in is valuable, and broadly considered to be valuable (even by people like me who are opting out of our IB) and often in DC increases school integration.

Why are you opting out of your IB?

I'm not going to answer detailed questions about this because it would make me pretty identifiable, but I'll say in general terms: Lack of academic peers for my advanced kids, and some social challenges.

But I will say that my experience in having my kids at a DCPS, evaluating schools, learning about the DC school landscape, and navigating this with my own family has shown me that NONE of these issues, in DC at least, are simple, and there are no easy answers. And the only people claiming there are easy answers ("well if DC just did X, everything would be better") generally live in the suburbs (like the Bethesda guy quote upthread). These issues are incredibly complex.

In other words, you don't want your kids going to school with the blacks.

I’m not the person who wrote the original comment, but as a Black parent, I find this kind of response reductive and unfair.

It’s entirely possible for a family to be talking about academic peers and social fit without it being code for “not wanting to be around Black kids.” In fact, in my own case, we moved our son into a predominantly African-American Catholic school that is also high-performing.

One reason? At his previous school, he had essentially no Black male peers in his same socioeconomic band — not one. That matters more than people want to admit. Belonging isn’t just about race. It’s about shared expectations, family context, academic norms, and social environment.

Many white families in DC can reasonably expect that most of the same-race peers around their kids will also be in a similar SES band. That’s not always true for Black families. When it isn’t, the social dynamics can be isolating in ways that are hard to explain unless you’ve seen it up close.

Reducing complex conversations about peer groups and school culture to “you just don’t want your kids around Black people” shuts down nuance and ignores how class and race intersect in real ways.

Thank you for this. My (non-white kid) also moved from a Title 1 school to a high performing school and now has friends of different races, but they all are middle class or UMC and ALL have parents who value education.

When I see someone write something like "you don't want your kids in school with the blacks" I know this is a white mom at a Title 1 school who thinks she is performing an act of social justice by sending her kid there, and doesn't see her own racism.

Not bad points. But as a white mom with a kid in a T1 MS, I can also conclude that for white parents who disparage and won’t even consider the school, I do think there is racism at play. As for black MC/UMC kids, I think the issue is in some ways the same as for the white academically on track kids - the school is rightfully geared towards serving the 90% of kids that make up its main population and so advanced academics is not the #1 concern. That said I personally find the teachers and admins at our school to be very, very good and my kid has learned a ton. I wonder if a black MC would fall through the cracks a bit because everyone would assume they were “high risk” instead of EG pushing them into the advanced math class. At a school where grade level or beyond performance was expected then the median standard would be higher for all kids including black kids.

A mind reader, everyone.

Lots of convuluted thinking going on. "When UMC black families choose a good school, it's because they want a good education for their child. When UMC white families choose a good school, it's because of racism."

You joke, but this is absolutely the prevailing belief among a lot of people in DC. It's exhausting.

Welcome to the politics of the far left. These are the people who got Trump elected.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, this feels like a place where we should be lifting up Black and Latino voices, not white voices (which is the majority of DCUM). My answer is some mix of I don't know and it depends.

I am white - I do want my kids to go to a diverse school. For me, that means a school that has a good percentage of Black and Latino students, and at least enough white students that my kid doesn't stick out like a sore thumb - I think sending a kid to a school, in America, where there are only a single digit number of kids of their race in the whole school, no matter what race that kid is, is asking a lot of someone really young. Everyone has different priorities, but for me, Garrison and John Lewis are the kinds of schools I want my kid to attend (and we're attempting to lottery to both of them this year).

As to whether DC Prep should try to diversify, or whether schools EOTR should try to diversify, that's a question for the Black community, not a question for me.

It does seem to me like the place where integration is a reasonable goal is places where inbound participation is very low for particular races. There are plenty of white families inbounds for Cleveland, for HD Cooke, for Tubman - why aren't they attending? That's a worthwhile question to ponder. And if there are schools, for example, WOTP that are 70% white and aren't seeing inbound participation from families of color, that's worth digging in to as well. So I do tend to agree with a previous poster that inbound buy in is valuable, and broadly considered to be valuable (even by people like me who are opting out of our IB) and often in DC increases school integration.

Why are you opting out of your IB?

I'm not going to answer detailed questions about this because it would make me pretty identifiable, but I'll say in general terms: Lack of academic peers for my advanced kids, and some social challenges.

But I will say that my experience in having my kids at a DCPS, evaluating schools, learning about the DC school landscape, and navigating this with my own family has shown me that NONE of these issues, in DC at least, are simple, and there are no easy answers. And the only people claiming there are easy answers ("well if DC just did X, everything would be better") generally live in the suburbs (like the Bethesda guy quote upthread). These issues are incredibly complex.

In other words, you don't want your kids going to school with the blacks.

I’m not the person who wrote the original comment, but as a Black parent, I find this kind of response reductive and unfair.

It’s entirely possible for a family to be talking about academic peers and social fit without it being code for “not wanting to be around Black kids.” In fact, in my own case, we moved our son into a predominantly African-American Catholic school that is also high-performing.

One reason? At his previous school, he had essentially no Black male peers in his same socioeconomic band — not one. That matters more than people want to admit. Belonging isn’t just about race. It’s about shared expectations, family context, academic norms, and social environment.

Many white families in DC can reasonably expect that most of the same-race peers around their kids will also be in a similar SES band. That’s not always true for Black families. When it isn’t, the social dynamics can be isolating in ways that are hard to explain unless you’ve seen it up close.

Reducing complex conversations about peer groups and school culture to “you just don’t want your kids around Black people” shuts down nuance and ignores how class and race intersect in real ways.

Thank you for this. My (non-white kid) also moved from a Title 1 school to a high performing school and now has friends of different races, but they all are middle class or UMC and ALL have parents who value education.

When I see someone write something like "you don't want your kids in school with the blacks" I know this is a white mom at a Title 1 school who thinks she is performing an act of social justice by sending her kid there, and doesn't see her own racism.

Not bad points. But as a white mom with a kid in a T1 MS, I can also conclude that for white parents who disparage and won’t even consider the school, I do think there is racism at play. As for black MC/UMC kids, I think the issue is in some ways the same as for the white academically on track kids - the school is rightfully geared towards serving the 90% of kids that make up its main population and so advanced academics is not the #1 concern. That said I personally find the teachers and admins at our school to be very, very good and my kid has learned a ton. I wonder if a black MC would fall through the cracks a bit because everyone would assume they were “high risk” instead of EG pushing them into the advanced math class. At a school where grade level or beyond performance was expected then the median standard would be higher for all kids including black kids.

A mind reader, everyone.

Lots of convuluted thinking going on. "When UMC black families choose a good school, it's because they want a good education for their child. When UMC white families choose a good school, it's because of racism."

That sentiment has been expressed a million times on this board.

A similar, but even more hilarious, version of it came up ALL THE TIME when there was discussion of the DCPS vaccine requirement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, this feels like a place where we should be lifting up Black and Latino voices, not white voices (which is the majority of DCUM). My answer is some mix of I don't know and it depends.

I am white - I do want my kids to go to a diverse school. For me, that means a school that has a good percentage of Black and Latino students, and at least enough white students that my kid doesn't stick out like a sore thumb - I think sending a kid to a school, in America, where there are only a single digit number of kids of their race in the whole school, no matter what race that kid is, is asking a lot of someone really young. Everyone has different priorities, but for me, Garrison and John Lewis are the kinds of schools I want my kid to attend (and we're attempting to lottery to both of them this year).

As to whether DC Prep should try to diversify, or whether schools EOTR should try to diversify, that's a question for the Black community, not a question for me.

It does seem to me like the place where integration is a reasonable goal is places where inbound participation is very low for particular races. There are plenty of white families inbounds for Cleveland, for HD Cooke, for Tubman - why aren't they attending? That's a worthwhile question to ponder. And if there are schools, for example, WOTP that are 70% white and aren't seeing inbound participation from families of color, that's worth digging in to as well. So I do tend to agree with a previous poster that inbound buy in is valuable, and broadly considered to be valuable (even by people like me who are opting out of our IB) and often in DC increases school integration.

Why are you opting out of your IB?

I'm not going to answer detailed questions about this because it would make me pretty identifiable, but I'll say in general terms: Lack of academic peers for my advanced kids, and some social challenges.

But I will say that my experience in having my kids at a DCPS, evaluating schools, learning about the DC school landscape, and navigating this with my own family has shown me that NONE of these issues, in DC at least, are simple, and there are no easy answers. And the only people claiming there are easy answers ("well if DC just did X, everything would be better") generally live in the suburbs (like the Bethesda guy quote upthread). These issues are incredibly complex.

In other words, you don't want your kids going to school with the blacks.

I’m not the person who wrote the original comment, but as a Black parent, I find this kind of response reductive and unfair.

It’s entirely possible for a family to be talking about academic peers and social fit without it being code for “not wanting to be around Black kids.” In fact, in my own case, we moved our son into a predominantly African-American Catholic school that is also high-performing.

One reason? At his previous school, he had essentially no Black male peers in his same socioeconomic band — not one. That matters more than people want to admit. Belonging isn’t just about race. It’s about shared expectations, family context, academic norms, and social environment.

Many white families in DC can reasonably expect that most of the same-race peers around their kids will also be in a similar SES band. That’s not always true for Black families. When it isn’t, the social dynamics can be isolating in ways that are hard to explain unless you’ve seen it up close.

Reducing complex conversations about peer groups and school culture to “you just don’t want your kids around Black people” shuts down nuance and ignores how class and race intersect in real ways.

Thank you for this. My (non-white kid) also moved from a Title 1 school to a high performing school and now has friends of different races, but they all are middle class or UMC and ALL have parents who value education.

When I see someone write something like "you don't want your kids in school with the blacks" I know this is a white mom at a Title 1 school who thinks she is performing an act of social justice by sending her kid there, and doesn't see her own racism.

Not bad points. But as a white mom with a kid in a T1 MS, I can also conclude that for white parents who disparage and won’t even consider the school, I do think there is racism at play. As for black MC/UMC kids, I think the issue is in some ways the same as for the white academically on track kids - the school is rightfully geared towards serving the 90% of kids that make up its main population and so advanced academics is not the #1 concern. That said I personally find the teachers and admins at our school to be very, very good and my kid has learned a ton. I wonder if a black MC would fall through the cracks a bit because everyone would assume they were “high risk” instead of EG pushing them into the advanced math class. At a school where grade level or beyond performance was expected then the median standard would be higher for all kids including black kids.

A mind reader, everyone.

Lots of convuluted thinking going on. "When UMC black families choose a good school, it's because they want a good education for their child. When UMC white families choose a good school, its because of racism."

The two families are not equivalent in their motivations and beliefs, obviously.

Also - there is a difference between chosing a school and disparaging a school. The latter is where the implied or even unconscious racial bias plays out. If I hadn’t lived through the process myself I wouldn’t be so aware of it.

LMAO if you think the UMC Black families don't disparage the bad schools. What bubble do you live in. Do you even know your neighbors? Why don't you know this? Could it be a racial bias?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, this feels like a place where we should be lifting up Black and Latino voices, not white voices (which is the majority of DCUM). My answer is some mix of I don't know and it depends.

I am white - I do want my kids to go to a diverse school. For me, that means a school that has a good percentage of Black and Latino students, and at least enough white students that my kid doesn't stick out like a sore thumb - I think sending a kid to a school, in America, where there are only a single digit number of kids of their race in the whole school, no matter what race that kid is, is asking a lot of someone really young. Everyone has different priorities, but for me, Garrison and John Lewis are the kinds of schools I want my kid to attend (and we're attempting to lottery to both of them this year).

As to whether DC Prep should try to diversify, or whether schools EOTR should try to diversify, that's a question for the Black community, not a question for me.

It does seem to me like the place where integration is a reasonable goal is places where inbound participation is very low for particular races. There are plenty of white families inbounds for Cleveland, for HD Cooke, for Tubman - why aren't they attending? That's a worthwhile question to ponder. And if there are schools, for example, WOTP that are 70% white and aren't seeing inbound participation from families of color, that's worth digging in to as well. So I do tend to agree with a previous poster that inbound buy in is valuable, and broadly considered to be valuable (even by people like me who are opting out of our IB) and often in DC increases school integration.

Why are you opting out of your IB?

I'm not going to answer detailed questions about this because it would make me pretty identifiable, but I'll say in general terms: Lack of academic peers for my advanced kids, and some social challenges.

But I will say that my experience in having my kids at a DCPS, evaluating schools, learning about the DC school landscape, and navigating this with my own family has shown me that NONE of these issues, in DC at least, are simple, and there are no easy answers. And the only people claiming there are easy answers ("well if DC just did X, everything would be better") generally live in the suburbs (like the Bethesda guy quote upthread). These issues are incredibly complex.

In other words, you don't want your kids going to school with the blacks.

I’m not the person who wrote the original comment, but as a Black parent, I find this kind of response reductive and unfair.

It’s entirely possible for a family to be talking about academic peers and social fit without it being code for “not wanting to be around Black kids.” In fact, in my own case, we moved our son into a predominantly African-American Catholic school that is also high-performing.

One reason? At his previous school, he had essentially no Black male peers in his same socioeconomic band — not one. That matters more than people want to admit. Belonging isn’t just about race. It’s about shared expectations, family context, academic norms, and social environment.

Many white families in DC can reasonably expect that most of the same-race peers around their kids will also be in a similar SES band. That’s not always true for Black families. When it isn’t, the social dynamics can be isolating in ways that are hard to explain unless you’ve seen it up close.

Reducing complex conversations about peer groups and school culture to “you just don’t want your kids around Black people” shuts down nuance and ignores how class and race intersect in real ways.

Thank you for this. My (non-white kid) also moved from a Title 1 school to a high performing school and now has friends of different races, but they all are middle class or UMC and ALL have parents who value education.

When I see someone write something like "you don't want your kids in school with the blacks" I know this is a white mom at a Title 1 school who thinks she is performing an act of social justice by sending her kid there, and doesn't see her own racism.

Not bad points. But as a white mom with a kid in a T1 MS, I can also conclude that for white parents who disparage and won’t even consider the school, I do think there is racism at play. As for black MC/UMC kids, I think the issue is in some ways the same as for the white academically on track kids - the school is rightfully geared towards serving the 90% of kids that make up its main population and so advanced academics is not the #1 concern. That said I personally find the teachers and admins at our school to be very, very good and my kid has learned a ton. I wonder if a black MC would fall through the cracks a bit because everyone would assume they were “high risk” instead of EG pushing them into the advanced math class. At a school where grade level or beyond performance was expected then the median standard would be higher for all kids including black kids.

A mind reader, everyone.

Lots of convuluted thinking going on. "When UMC black families choose a good school, it's because they want a good education for their child. When UMC white families choose a good school, its because of racism."

The two families are not equivalent in their motivations and beliefs, obviously.

Sometimes the two families actually are identical in their motivations and beliefs, actually. Their circumstances might be somewhat different, but both families value education and are concerned that a school with low test scores and low achievement will not provide that.

In DC, I especially find it interesting when people accuse white families of racism for opting out of IB or T1 schools, because in the vast majority of cases, they are opting for a school where white kids are still in the minority. I have known families who opted for other T1 schools over their IB, with similar racial demographics, because they wanted the school with better administration and higher test scores. Is that family racist? What about a family who lotteries into a charter or nearby DCPS because more students in the neighborhood attend those schools and they want neighborhood friends (and their IB is mostly OOB kids coming from farther away)? Is that a racist concern?

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Anonymous wrote:Honestly, this feels like a place where we should be lifting up Black and Latino voices, not white voices (which is the majority of DCUM). My answer is some mix of I don't know and it depends.

I am white - I do want my kids to go to a diverse school. For me, that means a school that has a good percentage of Black and Latino students, and at least enough white students that my kid doesn't stick out like a sore thumb - I think sending a kid to a school, in America, where there are only a single digit number of kids of their race in the whole school, no matter what race that kid is, is asking a lot of someone really young. Everyone has different priorities, but for me, Garrison and John Lewis are the kinds of schools I want my kid to attend (and we're attempting to lottery to both of them this year).

As to whether DC Prep should try to diversify, or whether schools EOTR should try to diversify, that's a question for the Black community, not a question for me.

It does seem to me like the place where integration is a reasonable goal is places where inbound participation is very low for particular races. There are plenty of white families inbounds for Cleveland, for HD Cooke, for Tubman - why aren't they attending? That's a worthwhile question to ponder. And if there are schools, for example, WOTP that are 70% white and aren't seeing inbound participation from families of color, that's worth digging in to as well. So I do tend to agree with a previous poster that inbound buy in is valuable, and broadly considered to be valuable (even by people like me who are opting out of our IB) and often in DC increases school integration.

Why are you opting out of your IB?

I'm not going to answer detailed questions about this because it would make me pretty identifiable, but I'll say in general terms: Lack of academic peers for my advanced kids, and some social challenges.

But I will say that my experience in having my kids at a DCPS, evaluating schools, learning about the DC school landscape, and navigating this with my own family has shown me that NONE of these issues, in DC at least, are simple, and there are no easy answers. And the only people claiming there are easy answers ("well if DC just did X, everything would be better") generally live in the suburbs (like the Bethesda guy quote upthread). These issues are incredibly complex.

In other words, you don't want your kids going to school with the blacks.

I’m not the person who wrote the original comment, but as a Black parent, I find this kind of response reductive and unfair.

It’s entirely possible for a family to be talking about academic peers and social fit without it being code for “not wanting to be around Black kids.” In fact, in my own case, we moved our son into a predominantly African-American Catholic school that is also high-performing.

One reason? At his previous school, he had essentially no Black male peers in his same socioeconomic band — not one. That matters more than people want to admit. Belonging isn’t just about race. It’s about shared expectations, family context, academic norms, and social environment.

Many white families in DC can reasonably expect that most of the same-race peers around their kids will also be in a similar SES band. That’s not always true for Black families. When it isn’t, the social dynamics can be isolating in ways that are hard to explain unless you’ve seen it up close.

Reducing complex conversations about peer groups and school culture to “you just don’t want your kids around Black people” shuts down nuance and ignores how class and race intersect in real ways.

Thank you for this. My (non-white kid) also moved from a Title 1 school to a high performing school and now has friends of different races, but they all are middle class or UMC and ALL have parents who value education.

When I see someone write something like "you don't want your kids in school with the blacks" I know this is a white mom at a Title 1 school who thinks she is performing an act of social justice by sending her kid there, and doesn't see her own racism.

Not bad points. But as a white mom with a kid in a T1 MS, I can also conclude that for white parents who disparage and won’t even consider the school, I do think there is racism at play. As for black MC/UMC kids, I think the issue is in some ways the same as for the white academically on track kids - the school is rightfully geared towards serving the 90% of kids that make up its main population and so advanced academics is not the #1 concern. That said I personally find the teachers and admins at our school to be very, very good and my kid has learned a ton. I wonder if a black MC would fall through the cracks a bit because everyone would assume they were “high risk” instead of EG pushing them into the advanced math class. At a school where grade level or beyond performance was expected then the median standard would be higher for all kids including black kids.

A mind reader, everyone.

Lots of convuluted thinking going on. "When UMC black families choose a good school, it's because they want a good education for their child. When UMC white families choose a good school, its because of racism."

The two families are not equivalent in their motivations and beliefs, obviously.

Also - there is a difference between chosing a school and disparaging a school. The latter is where the implied or even unconscious racial bias plays out. If I hadn’t lived through the process myself I wouldn’t be so aware of it.

It’s exhausting when you accurately call a school bad that is bad, and bad because it has a high at risk population filled with kids from families who legitimately do not care about their kids’ education, and people call you racist. Just because it’s a broken clock situation where at risk almost certainly means black in DC does not make the descriptive claim by racists (“this school is bad”) wrong, even if the belief about the mechanism is false. We need to stop being so negatively polarized into pretending the facts aren’t hitting us (often literally in the case of at risk kids at schools) in the face.