Arlington proposing to close county gymnastics program

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Big changes like that should happen with more than a couple of months notice.

And with actual information. The county manager hasn't provided any of the cost, fee or utilization information. Even the county board is absolutely no information on which to make this decision. Yet the Barcroft gymnastics coaches and staff all got termination notices yesterday. That's not okay.

The lack of data or information plus the sudden decision is the worst part of all this. How can the county recommend elimination of a 50 year old program with no reports or studies to point to? Did they consider any alternatives, such as increasing costs or keeping rec programs as county-run and breaking off the competitive club team (maybe converting that into its own non-profit that leases space for the county)? Seems there are feasible alternatives to this proposed sudden complete termination. Also, I know GWU’s college team uses Barcroft for their practices (presumably they pay the county for use of the space).

[Anonymous]

They will also be leaving the Wakefield team w/o a place to practice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They will also be leaving the Wakefield team w/o a place to practice.

The other 2 high schools can accommodate equipment that has to be set up and taken down for all practices. Wakefield cannot and uses Barcroft.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most of the residents who benefit from the Barcroft facility AREN'T competitive gymnasts. Yes, the Aerials and the Tigers will be devastated at the loss of the facility, but the impact to the greater community is even larger. Most partipants are children who are interested in rec gymnastics, no different than the rec bball or rec swimming. Learning gymnastics at a young age is wonderful for building strength, developing balance and coordination, promoting fitness, teaching discipline and mental toughness and boosting confidence. Most participants eventually move on to other sports, but the foundation formed in gymnastics can help them throughout life. Stop treating it like it's some boogeyman. You don't need to be a college level gymnast to teach rec classes. Please get real. Let's also not forget that it is one of the only adaptive gymnastics programs out there and those families won't have other places to turn.

But then they could do that without the a full-fledged competitive gymnastics facility.

You could build a truly recreational gymnastics program that focused on tumbling, flexibility, strength, and body awareness. No vault, no bars except maybe a low bar for learning things like hip circles and doing pull ups and kip ups, no high beam, no rings, no pommel. Instead, you focus on fundamental skills and progressions. Cartwheels, walk-overs, rolls and building up to hand springs and back tucks for more advanced students.

Facility could have bonded foam flexi-rolls instead of a spring floor, some deeper foam mats for the slightly bigger tumbling tricks, a trampoline, low beams, a low bar. Less expensive, easier to break down and store when not in use, could be more easily moved to different facilities as needed, and lower liability costs since you wouldn't be doing riskier skills on equipment like this.

The program should emphasize exactly what you are talking about -- foundational gymnastics that help with body awareness, flexibility and mobility, balance and coordination, love of sports and physical movement. The program should also be targeted to all ages with programming specifically designed for adult beginners, and people with mobility or joint issues.

If the goal is fitness and not competitive gymnastics, then you don't need a vault, a foam pit, a springboard floor, a full suite of unevent/high/parallel bars, etc. All of which take up a ton of space, require a lot of maintenance, and are primarily used by more advanced gymnasts in a narrow age rage. People who want those things can seek out a private gym for it. If there is truly demand in Arlington County for it, and it's actually a sustainable model with insurance and staffing costs, then private options will become available. It does not make sense for the county to subsidize the competitive gymnastics portion of the program which serves so few kids when they could instead build a truly recreational program geared at fitness for all ages.

There's no funding to buy all new equipment. The gym is fully outfitted already. This is a ridiculous post.

Right. The 2nd gym buildout was a misstep. They could close that side and convert back to a basketball gym while maintaining the original side. It would crowd the space more, but since they have a stffing problem, it wouldn't be as bad as before.

There is still overwhelming demand from Arlington residents and long waitlists. There's no reason to think we can't fill both gyms with kids doing gymnastics. DPR just needs to get their act together.

There’s overwhelming demand for gymnastics at the price point DPR was offering. At the price point it would take DPR to not hemorrhage money? Probably a whole lot less.

Dynamic Gymnastics is a commercial gym and they have a 2+ year waitlist for many classes. So yeah, demand is there even at a price point that covers costs + presumably makes a profit. There's a huge gymnastics shortage in this area.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most of the residents who benefit from the Barcroft facility AREN'T competitive gymnasts. Yes, the Aerials and the Tigers will be devastated at the loss of the facility, but the impact to the greater community is even larger. Most partipants are children who are interested in rec gymnastics, no different than the rec bball or rec swimming. Learning gymnastics at a young age is wonderful for building strength, developing balance and coordination, promoting fitness, teaching discipline and mental toughness and boosting confidence. Most participants eventually move on to other sports, but the foundation formed in gymnastics can help them throughout life. Stop treating it like it's some boogeyman. You don't need to be a college level gymnast to teach rec classes. Please get real. Let's also not forget that it is one of the only adaptive gymnastics programs out there and those families won't have other places to turn.

But then they could do that without the a full-fledged competitive gymnastics facility.

You could build a truly recreational gymnastics program that focused on tumbling, flexibility, strength, and body awareness. No vault, no bars except maybe a low bar for learning things like hip circles and doing pull ups and kip ups, no high beam, no rings, no pommel. Instead, you focus on fundamental skills and progressions. Cartwheels, walk-overs, rolls and building up to hand springs and back tucks for more advanced students.

Facility could have bonded foam flexi-rolls instead of a spring floor, some deeper foam mats for the slightly bigger tumbling tricks, a trampoline, low beams, a low bar. Less expensive, easier to break down and store when not in use, could be more easily moved to different facilities as needed, and lower liability costs since you wouldn't be doing riskier skills on equipment like this.

The program should emphasize exactly what you are talking about -- foundational gymnastics that help with body awareness, flexibility and mobility, balance and coordination, love of sports and physical movement. The program should also be targeted to all ages with programming specifically designed for adult beginners, and people with mobility or joint issues.

If the goal is fitness and not competitive gymnastics, then you don't need a vault, a foam pit, a springboard floor, a full suite of unevent/high/parallel bars, etc. All of which take up a ton of space, require a lot of maintenance, and are primarily used by more advanced gymnasts in a narrow age rage. People who want those things can seek out a private gym for it. If there is truly demand in Arlington County for it, and it's actually a sustainable model with insurance and staffing costs, then private options will become available. It does not make sense for the county to subsidize the competitive gymnastics portion of the program which serves so few kids when they could instead build a truly recreational program geared at fitness for all ages.

There's no funding to buy all new equipment. The gym is fully outfitted already. This is a ridiculous post.

Right. The 2nd gym buildout was a misstep. They could close that side and convert back to a basketball gym while maintaining the original side. It would crowd the space more, but since they have a stffing problem, it wouldn't be as bad as before.

There is still overwhelming demand from Arlington residents and long waitlists. There's no reason to think we can't fill both gyms with kids doing gymnastics. DPR just needs to get their act together.

There’s overwhelming demand for gymnastics at the price point DPR was offering. At the price point it would take DPR to not hemorrhage money? Probably a whole lot less.

Dynamic Gymnastics is a commercial gym and they have a 2+ year waitlist for many classes. So yeah, demand is there even at a price point that covers costs + presumably makes a profit. There's a huge gymnastics shortage in this area.

They don't have the same labor costs the County has. The County instructors are County employees with benefits and a pension, which the gymnastics community pushed for at some point btw.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most of the residents who benefit from the Barcroft facility AREN'T competitive gymnasts. Yes, the Aerials and the Tigers will be devastated at the loss of the facility, but the impact to the greater community is even larger. Most partipants are children who are interested in rec gymnastics, no different than the rec bball or rec swimming. Learning gymnastics at a young age is wonderful for building strength, developing balance and coordination, promoting fitness, teaching discipline and mental toughness and boosting confidence. Most participants eventually move on to other sports, but the foundation formed in gymnastics can help them throughout life. Stop treating it like it's some boogeyman. You don't need to be a college level gymnast to teach rec classes. Please get real. Let's also not forget that it is one of the only adaptive gymnastics programs out there and those families won't have other places to turn.

But then they could do that without the a full-fledged competitive gymnastics facility.

You could build a truly recreational gymnastics program that focused on tumbling, flexibility, strength, and body awareness. No vault, no bars except maybe a low bar for learning things like hip circles and doing pull ups and kip ups, no high beam, no rings, no pommel. Instead, you focus on fundamental skills and progressions. Cartwheels, walk-overs, rolls and building up to hand springs and back tucks for more advanced students.

Facility could have bonded foam flexi-rolls instead of a spring floor, some deeper foam mats for the slightly bigger tumbling tricks, a trampoline, low beams, a low bar. Less expensive, easier to break down and store when not in use, could be more easily moved to different facilities as needed, and lower liability costs since you wouldn't be doing riskier skills on equipment like this.

The program should emphasize exactly what you are talking about -- foundational gymnastics that help with body awareness, flexibility and mobility, balance and coordination, love of sports and physical movement. The program should also be targeted to all ages with programming specifically designed for adult beginners, and people with mobility or joint issues.

If the goal is fitness and not competitive gymnastics, then you don't need a vault, a foam pit, a springboard floor, a full suite of unevent/high/parallel bars, etc. All of which take up a ton of space, require a lot of maintenance, and are primarily used by more advanced gymnasts in a narrow age rage. People who want those things can seek out a private gym for it. If there is truly demand in Arlington County for it, and it's actually a sustainable model with insurance and staffing costs, then private options will become available. It does not make sense for the county to subsidize the competitive gymnastics portion of the program which serves so few kids when they could instead build a truly recreational program geared at fitness for all ages.

There's no funding to buy all new equipment. The gym is fully outfitted already. This is a ridiculous post.

Right. The 2nd gym buildout was a misstep. They could close that side and convert back to a basketball gym while maintaining the original side. It would crowd the space more, but since they have a stffing problem, it wouldn't be as bad as before.

There is still overwhelming demand from Arlington residents and long waitlists. There's no reason to think we can't fill both gyms with kids doing gymnastics. DPR just needs to get their act together.

There’s overwhelming demand for gymnastics at the price point DPR was offering. At the price point it would take DPR to not hemorrhage money? Probably a whole lot less.

Dynamic Gymnastics is a commercial gym and they have a 2+ year waitlist for many classes. So yeah, demand is there even at a price point that covers costs + presumably makes a profit. There's a huge gymnastics shortage in this area.

They don't have the same labor costs the County has. The County instructors are County employees with benefits and a pension, which the gymnastics community pushed for at some point btw.

Most of the county staff are part time seasonal with no benefits and are paid hourly. That's one of the reasons they have trouble finding staff.

[Anonymous]

I’m pretty sure not every employee in the Gymnastics program is full-time with benefits.

[Anonymous]

I definitely don’t think they’re going to sell Barcroft. That doesn’t make a lot of sense in any direction I can see and would have needed a huge proposal of its own. For those unfamiliar with Barcroft, it isn’t used exclusively for gymnastics either. There are a bunch of programs operating out of Barcroft.

The original letter said if adopted, the proposal would close Barcroft for one year. Then there was something (a slide? I can’t remember) which used the language of using the facility for “other operational” purposes. This made it seem like the whole facility. Then there was the small amount of discussion at the board meeting where it seemed like the proposal was entirely based on gymnastics not being fee supported and the gap being too large (with no details). Anyone know if people who are strictly facilities received termination notices? That would give a pretty strong clue.

It seems kind of weird to just leave the entire facility sitting for a year. I’m skeptical about that, I think the more likely scenario is they leave the original gymnastics space and immediately begin repurposing the court side for programs that may be more profitable. If parks and rec decide to restart a gymnastics program, it will be easier to do so from a “clean start.”

The original gymnastics space isn’t easy to immediately repurpose with minimal investment, since it has in ground pits. But they could just move all the stuff on the court side.

I went looking earlier and found information from the time of the expansion. At that point gymnastics was considered profitable based on parks and rec budget. So all this has happened in the last ten years. I don’t know if 8 can say the expansion alone is the breaking point. Obviously a lot of changes were made the management structure of the program since then. But the expansion also comes with other opportunity costs, of course.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I definitely don’t think they’re going to sell Barcroft. That doesn’t make a lot of sense in any direction I can see and would have needed a huge proposal of its own. For those unfamiliar with Barcroft, it isn’t used exclusively for gymnastics either. There are a bunch of programs operating out of Barcroft.

The original letter said if adopted, the proposal would close Barcroft for one year. Then there was something (a slide? I can’t remember) which used the language of using the facility for “other operational” purposes. This made it seem like the whole facility. Then there was the small amount of discussion at the board meeting where it seemed like the proposal was entirely based on gymnastics not being fee supported and the gap being too large (with no details). Anyone know if people who are strictly facilities received termination notices? That would give a pretty strong clue.

It seems kind of weird to just leave the entire facility sitting for a year. I’m skeptical about that, I think the more likely scenario is they leave the original gymnastics space and immediately begin repurposing the court side for programs that may be more profitable. If parks and rec decide to restart a gymnastics program, it will be easier to do so from a “clean start.”

The original gymnastics space isn’t easy to immediately repurpose with minimal investment, since it has in ground pits. But they could just move all the stuff on the court side.

I went looking earlier and found information from the time of the expansion. At that point gymnastics was considered profitable based on parks and rec budget. So all this has happened in the last ten years. I don’t know if 8 can say the expansion alone is the breaking point. Obviously a lot of changes were made the management structure of the program since then. But the expansion also comes with other opportunity costs, of course.

I think it was profitable until they didn't fully re-staff after covid. There was a huge gap where gymnastics employees were furloughed and it really hurt the program. On top of that there were also competitive gymnasts who dropped out of gymnastics because they lost their skills and conditioning during the shutdown, making some of the upper levels smaller than they used to be. It doesn't mean the pipeline is refilling but it's a multi-year process. DPR also hasn't been restaffing and offering more classes the way they need to bring the program back fully.

[Anonymous]

Yes, that’s definitely an issue for most private facilities as well. But upper level teams don’t usually make or break profits. I think the rec side would be more relevant.

They do have more full time employees on staff making full time wages than most private facilities. On the other hand, if the program just needs to break even, that would be theoretically possible.

But I’m leaning into a theory where it’s easier for the county to just do this and then bring gymnastics back on a more limited basis in the original space, with primarily hourly staff (which is how things were at one point. At one point there was only a single salaried position for the gymnastics program. But the hourly wage was pretty good and there were lots of employees).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most of the residents who benefit from the Barcroft facility AREN'T competitive gymnasts. Yes, the Aerials and the Tigers will be devastated at the loss of the facility, but the impact to the greater community is even larger. Most partipants are children who are interested in rec gymnastics, no different than the rec bball or rec swimming. Learning gymnastics at a young age is wonderful for building strength, developing balance and coordination, promoting fitness, teaching discipline and mental toughness and boosting confidence. Most participants eventually move on to other sports, but the foundation formed in gymnastics can help them throughout life. Stop treating it like it's some boogeyman. You don't need to be a college level gymnast to teach rec classes. Please get real. Let's also not forget that it is one of the only adaptive gymnastics programs out there and those families won't have other places to turn.

But then they could do that without the a full-fledged competitive gymnastics facility.

You could build a truly recreational gymnastics program that focused on tumbling, flexibility, strength, and body awareness. No vault, no bars except maybe a low bar for learning things like hip circles and doing pull ups and kip ups, no high beam, no rings, no pommel. Instead, you focus on fundamental skills and progressions. Cartwheels, walk-overs, rolls and building up to hand springs and back tucks for more advanced students.

Facility could have bonded foam flexi-rolls instead of a spring floor, some deeper foam mats for the slightly bigger tumbling tricks, a trampoline, low beams, a low bar. Less expensive, easier to break down and store when not in use, could be more easily moved to different facilities as needed, and lower liability costs since you wouldn't be doing riskier skills on equipment like this.

The program should emphasize exactly what you are talking about -- foundational gymnastics that help with body awareness, flexibility and mobility, balance and coordination, love of sports and physical movement. The program should also be targeted to all ages with programming specifically designed for adult beginners, and people with mobility or joint issues.

If the goal is fitness and not competitive gymnastics, then you don't need a vault, a foam pit, a springboard floor, a full suite of unevent/high/parallel bars, etc. All of which take up a ton of space, require a lot of maintenance, and are primarily used by more advanced gymnasts in a narrow age rage. People who want those things can seek out a private gym for it. If there is truly demand in Arlington County for it, and it's actually a sustainable model with insurance and staffing costs, then private options will become available. It does not make sense for the county to subsidize the competitive gymnastics portion of the program which serves so few kids when they could instead build a truly recreational program geared at fitness for all ages.

There's no funding to buy all new equipment. The gym is fully outfitted already. This is a ridiculous post.

Right. The 2nd gym buildout was a misstep. They could close that side and convert back to a basketball gym while maintaining the original side. It would crowd the space more, but since they have a stffing problem, it wouldn't be as bad as before.

There is still overwhelming demand from Arlington residents and long waitlists. There's no reason to think we can't fill both gyms with kids doing gymnastics. DPR just needs to get their act together.

There’s overwhelming demand for gymnastics at the price point DPR was offering. At the price point it would take DPR to not hemorrhage money? Probably a whole lot less.

Dynamic Gymnastics is a commercial gym and they have a 2+ year waitlist for many classes. So yeah, demand is there even at a price point that covers costs + presumably makes a profit. There's a huge gymnastics shortage in this area.

They don't have the same labor costs the County has. The County instructors are County employees with benefits and a pension, which the gymnastics community pushed for at some point btw.

Most of the county staff are part time seasonal with no benefits and are paid hourly. That's one of the reasons they have trouble finding staff.

It's a mix of both types of staff.

[Anonymous]

Enough with the posts griping that gymnastics only serves young people.

I understand that retirees have paid taxes their entire working lives, but guess what — that money has all been spent. It’s not there anymore. The services they receive (social security, Medicare, subsidized property taxes, etc) all comes from current taxpayers.

Now, this shouldn’t be a problem, except there are so effing many old people, and the birth rate has been in steady decline for a long time now. There aren’t as many people paying into these programs, and the number of people receiving benefits is HUGE.

Not to mention, the world literally shut down to keep you safe during COVID. Young people had to shutter businesses. Kids didn’t attend school for years! These things have catastrophic effects for entire lives. Perhaps old people should have been asked to stay home instead…

We can’t keep sacrificing the quality of life of all young people. Sometimes senior citizens need to take their turn.

Keep the gymnastics center. Raise fees if needed, especially for the competitive programs.

Not one more post about achy joints. That’s just part of life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most of the residents who benefit from the Barcroft facility AREN'T competitive gymnasts. Yes, the Aerials and the Tigers will be devastated at the loss of the facility, but the impact to the greater community is even larger. Most partipants are children who are interested in rec gymnastics, no different than the rec bball or rec swimming. Learning gymnastics at a young age is wonderful for building strength, developing balance and coordination, promoting fitness, teaching discipline and mental toughness and boosting confidence. Most participants eventually move on to other sports, but the foundation formed in gymnastics can help them throughout life. Stop treating it like it's some boogeyman. You don't need to be a college level gymnast to teach rec classes. Please get real. Let's also not forget that it is one of the only adaptive gymnastics programs out there and those families won't have other places to turn.

But then they could do that without the a full-fledged competitive gymnastics facility.

You could build a truly recreational gymnastics program that focused on tumbling, flexibility, strength, and body awareness. No vault, no bars except maybe a low bar for learning things like hip circles and doing pull ups and kip ups, no high beam, no rings, no pommel. Instead, you focus on fundamental skills and progressions. Cartwheels, walk-overs, rolls and building up to hand springs and back tucks for more advanced students.

Facility could have bonded foam flexi-rolls instead of a spring floor, some deeper foam mats for the slightly bigger tumbling tricks, a trampoline, low beams, a low bar. Less expensive, easier to break down and store when not in use, could be more easily moved to different facilities as needed, and lower liability costs since you wouldn't be doing riskier skills on equipment like this.

The program should emphasize exactly what you are talking about -- foundational gymnastics that help with body awareness, flexibility and mobility, balance and coordination, love of sports and physical movement. The program should also be targeted to all ages with programming specifically designed for adult beginners, and people with mobility or joint issues.

If the goal is fitness and not competitive gymnastics, then you don't need a vault, a foam pit, a springboard floor, a full suite of unevent/high/parallel bars, etc. All of which take up a ton of space, require a lot of maintenance, and are primarily used by more advanced gymnasts in a narrow age rage. People who want those things can seek out a private gym for it. If there is truly demand in Arlington County for it, and it's actually a sustainable model with insurance and staffing costs, then private options will become available. It does not make sense for the county to subsidize the competitive gymnastics portion of the program which serves so few kids when they could instead build a truly recreational program geared at fitness for all ages.

There's no funding to buy all new equipment. The gym is fully outfitted already. This is a ridiculous post.

Right. The 2nd gym buildout was a misstep. They could close that side and convert back to a basketball gym while maintaining the original side. It would crowd the space more, but since they have a stffing problem, it wouldn't be as bad as before.

There is still overwhelming demand from Arlington residents and long waitlists. There's no reason to think we can't fill both gyms with kids doing gymnastics. DPR just needs to get their act together.

There’s overwhelming demand for gymnastics at the price point DPR was offering. At the price point it would take DPR to not hemorrhage money? Probably a whole lot less.

Dynamic Gymnastics is a commercial gym and they have a 2+ year waitlist for many classes. So yeah, demand is there even at a price point that covers costs + presumably makes a profit. There's a huge gymnastics shortage in this area.

They don't have the same labor costs the County has. The County instructors are County employees with benefits and a pension, which the gymnastics community pushed for at some point btw.

Most of the county staff are part time seasonal with no benefits and are paid hourly. That's one of the reasons they have trouble finding staff.

It's a mix of both types of staff.

The budget document says 16 permanent FTEs and 6.75 temporary FTEs

https://www.arlingtonva.us/files/sharedassets/public/v/1/budget/documents/fy-2027/proposed/feb-21-2026-docs/1-fy-2027-managers-message-combined-all-in-one.pdf

[Anonymous]

There’s a reason they haven’t shown you the data to support that the gap is just too big, especially compared to other programs.

[Anonymous]

Okay so the plan really is to close all of Barcroft for a year. Seems bizarre to me.