Nate Silver: "Go to a state school"

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I can see people are upset because they have an investment, whether emotional, financial, or ideological, with the current modus operandi at most elite colleges so they are bitterly resistant to the changing realities surrounding elite higher education these days despite that Silver cites data showing significant shift in public perspectives on higher education and elite higher education.

This is what people thought of a freshly minted Harvard graduate in 1994: highly accomplished and brainy nerd.

This is what many people now think when they encounter a freshly minted Harvard graduate in 2024: Either a legacy admit from an extremely connected and / or wealthy family (nepotism) or a mollycoddled diversity admit benefiting from a system that rewards identity over merit. And both will bring the same increasingly annoying social justice warrior outlook largely divorced from reality.

Silver is not a right wing MAGAtard, he is a Democrat and sold his polling business to the NYT. But like a lot of very intelligent nerds, Silver doesn't shy away from frankness.

You are an idiot. The minority students at Harvard etc have near perfect test scores and/or grades. The average student now is miles ahead of the 1994 student in terms of academic indicators. Same with the wealthy kids; at the top schools everyone has the scores that's why they add other factors to select.

what no?

Let me school you a bit. Go to your chart. Check the X axis. The scale of the chart is designed to make it seem as if there are big differences amongst the scores, but the average score for all races is some form of 700. At Harvard, they taught us (even the minorities) how to discern lies backed by stats and charts.

NP--Exactly. The difference between the average score for those of Asian descent (around 770) and those of African descent (around 720) is the difference between the 99th percentile and the 98th percentile. Even Mensa takes the top 2%.

Citation needed for 98th percentile. The College Board’s most recent reporting has 1400 (two 700s) as being the top 7 percent of test takers, not the top 2. Top 7% is nowhere close to Harvard material IMO.

Oops, you're right that I had the wrong percentiles, because I was spacing out and compared 1420 and 1470 instead of 720 and 770.

Here's a link to the most recent percentiles:

https://research.collegeboard.org/reports/sat-suite/understanding-scores/sat

You are correct about 1400 being the 93rd percentile only if you are comparing solely to those who take the SAT. I use the part of the chart that looks at the entire population, which has 1400 as being the 97th percentile. When you're talking about someone's ability level, you're generally talking about their ability compared to the general population, not just to those who apply to college. If you look at scores of 720 on both sections of the SAT (1440 total), you're talking about someone in the 98th percentile of the general population in academic ability. This is strong enough for Mensa, and also for Harvard.

SAT scores don't measure intelligence or acumen. Not sure how you think this relates to MENSA.

People here are delusional about the importance or indications of these test scores. They are one data point among many.
--former test prep teacher

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can see people are upset because they have an investment, whether emotional, financial, or ideological, with the current modus operandi at most elite colleges so they are bitterly resistant to the changing realities surrounding elite higher education these days despite that Silver cites data showing significant shift in public perspectives on higher education and elite higher education.

This is what people thought of a freshly minted Harvard graduate in 1994: highly accomplished and brainy nerd.

This is what many people now think when they encounter a freshly minted Harvard graduate in 2024: Either a legacy admit from an extremely connected and / or wealthy family (nepotism) or a mollycoddled diversity admit benefiting from a system that rewards identity over merit. And both will bring the same increasingly annoying social justice warrior outlook largely divorced from reality.

Silver is not a right wing MAGAtard, he is a Democrat and sold his polling business to the NYT. But like a lot of very intelligent nerds, Silver doesn't shy away from frankness.

You are an idiot. The minority students at Harvard etc have near perfect test scores and/or grades. The average student now is miles ahead of the 1994 student in terms of academic indicators. Same with the wealthy kids; at the top schools everyone has the scores that's why they add other factors to select.

what no?

Let me school you a bit. Go to your chart. Check the X axis. The scale of the chart is designed to make it seem as if there are big differences amongst the scores, but the average score for all races is some form of 700. At Harvard, they taught us (even the minorities) how to discern lies backed by stats and charts.

NP--Exactly. The difference between the average score for those of Asian descent (around 770) and those of African descent (around 720) is the difference between the 99th percentile and the 98th percentile. Even Mensa takes the top 2%.

Citation needed for 98th percentile. The College Board’s most recent reporting has 1400 (two 700s) as being the top 7 percent of test takers, not the top 2. Top 7% is nowhere close to Harvard material IMO.

Oops, you're right that I had the wrong percentiles, because I was spacing out and compared 1420 and 1470 instead of 720 and 770.

Here's a link to the most recent percentiles:

https://research.collegeboard.org/reports/sat-suite/understanding-scores/sat

You are correct about 1400 being the 93rd percentile only if you are comparing solely to those who take the SAT. I use the part of the chart that looks at the entire population, which has 1400 as being the 97th percentile. When you're talking about someone's ability level, you're generally talking about their ability compared to the general population, not just to those who apply to college. If you look at scores of 720 on both sections of the SAT (1440 total), you're talking about someone in the 98th percentile of the general population in academic ability. This is strong enough for Mensa, and also for Harvard.

When you are talking about who should get into college, the relevant comparison should be among those who applied. Averaging in a host of people who are nowhere close to college material just obscures the obvious differences in performance, which is of course your goal. Lol

And your goal is trolling. Buh-bye.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can see people are upset because they have an investment, whether emotional, financial, or ideological, with the current modus operandi at most elite colleges so they are bitterly resistant to the changing realities surrounding elite higher education these days despite that Silver cites data showing significant shift in public perspectives on higher education and elite higher education.

This is what people thought of a freshly minted Harvard graduate in 1994: highly accomplished and brainy nerd.

This is what many people now think when they encounter a freshly minted Harvard graduate in 2024: Either a legacy admit from an extremely connected and / or wealthy family (nepotism) or a mollycoddled diversity admit benefiting from a system that rewards identity over merit. And both will bring the same increasingly annoying social justice warrior outlook largely divorced from reality.

Silver is not a right wing MAGAtard, he is a Democrat and sold his polling business to the NYT. But like a lot of very intelligent nerds, Silver doesn't shy away from frankness.

You are an idiot. The minority students at Harvard etc have near perfect test scores and/or grades. The average student now is miles ahead of the 1994 student in terms of academic indicators. Same with the wealthy kids; at the top schools everyone has the scores that's why they add other factors to select.

what no?

Let me school you a bit. Go to your chart. Check the X axis. The scale of the chart is designed to make it seem as if there are big differences amongst the scores, but the average score for all races is some form of 700. At Harvard, they taught us (even the minorities) how to discern lies backed by stats and charts.

NP--Exactly. The difference between the average score for those of Asian descent (around 770) and those of African descent (around 720) is the difference between the 99th percentile and the 98th percentile. Even Mensa takes the top 2%.

Citation needed for 98th percentile. The College Board’s most recent reporting has 1400 (two 700s) as being the top 7 percent of test takers, not the top 2. Top 7% is nowhere close to Harvard material IMO.

Oops, you're right that I had the wrong percentiles, because I was spacing out and compared 1420 and 1470 instead of 720 and 770.

Here's a link to the most recent percentiles:

https://research.collegeboard.org/reports/sat-suite/understanding-scores/sat

You are correct about 1400 being the 93rd percentile only if you are comparing solely to those who take the SAT. I use the part of the chart that looks at the entire population, which has 1400 as being the 97th percentile. When you're talking about someone's ability level, you're generally talking about their ability compared to the general population, not just to those who apply to college. If you look at scores of 720 on both sections of the SAT (1440 total), you're talking about someone in the 98th percentile of the general population in academic ability. This is strong enough for Mensa, and also for Harvard.

When you are talking about who should get into college, the relevant comparison should be among those who applied. Averaging in a host of people who are nowhere close to college material just obscures the obvious differences in performance, which is of course your goal. Lol

And your goal is trolling. Buh-bye.

Quite a persuasive response.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can see people are upset because they have an investment, whether emotional, financial, or ideological, with the current modus operandi at most elite colleges so they are bitterly resistant to the changing realities surrounding elite higher education these days despite that Silver cites data showing significant shift in public perspectives on higher education and elite higher education.

This is what people thought of a freshly minted Harvard graduate in 1994: highly accomplished and brainy nerd.

This is what many people now think when they encounter a freshly minted Harvard graduate in 2024: Either a legacy admit from an extremely connected and / or wealthy family (nepotism) or a mollycoddled diversity admit benefiting from a system that rewards identity over merit. And both will bring the same increasingly annoying social justice warrior outlook largely divorced from reality.

Silver is not a right wing MAGAtard, he is a Democrat and sold his polling business to the NYT. But like a lot of very intelligent nerds, Silver doesn't shy away from frankness.

You are an idiot. The minority students at Harvard etc have near perfect test scores and/or grades. The average student now is miles ahead of the 1994 student in terms of academic indicators. Same with the wealthy kids; at the top schools everyone has the scores that's why they add other factors to select.

what no?

Let me school you a bit. Go to your chart. Check the X axis. The scale of the chart is designed to make it seem as if there are big differences amongst the scores, but the average score for all races is some form of 700. At Harvard, they taught us (even the minorities) how to discern lies backed by stats and charts.

NP--Exactly. The difference between the average score for those of Asian descent (around 770) and those of African descent (around 720) is the difference between the 99th percentile and the 98th percentile. Even Mensa takes the top 2%.

I bet if you show both sections of the SAT, the difference would be wider.

Both would still be 95th percentile and above.

1400 is very different than 1600

Why? What does a 1600 predict that we value vs a 1400?

Ability to learn, analyze, retain, time and solve.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can see people are upset because they have an investment, whether emotional, financial, or ideological, with the current modus operandi at most elite colleges so they are bitterly resistant to the changing realities surrounding elite higher education these days despite that Silver cites data showing significant shift in public perspectives on higher education and elite higher education.

This is what people thought of a freshly minted Harvard graduate in 1994: highly accomplished and brainy nerd.

This is what many people now think when they encounter a freshly minted Harvard graduate in 2024: Either a legacy admit from an extremely connected and / or wealthy family (nepotism) or a mollycoddled diversity admit benefiting from a system that rewards identity over merit. And both will bring the same increasingly annoying social justice warrior outlook largely divorced from reality.

Silver is not a right wing MAGAtard, he is a Democrat and sold his polling business to the NYT. But like a lot of very intelligent nerds, Silver doesn't shy away from frankness.

You are an idiot. The minority students at Harvard etc have near perfect test scores and/or grades. The average student now is miles ahead of the 1994 student in terms of academic indicators. Same with the wealthy kids; at the top schools everyone has the scores that's why they add other factors to select.

what no?

Let me school you a bit. Go to your chart. Check the X axis. The scale of the chart is designed to make it seem as if there are big differences amongst the scores, but the average score for all races is some form of 700. At Harvard, they taught us (even the minorities) how to discern lies backed by stats and charts.

NP--Exactly. The difference between the average score for those of Asian descent (around 770) and those of African descent (around 720) is the difference between the 99th percentile and the 98th percentile. Even Mensa takes the top 2%.

I bet if you show both sections of the SAT, the difference would be wider.

Both would still be 95th percentile and above.

1400 is very different than 1600

Why? What does a 1600 predict that we value vs a 1400?

+1

I'd rather have a 1400 who works hard, works well with others and is a natural leader. A 1600 is not a guarantee that you are the Best overall person in the world. Harvard wants smart kids who can do it all. They also realize there are plenty who have a 1400 who are overall much brighter, more world changing people than every 1600/4.0 student. Just look at who gets into these elite schools, they all have a little extra "something" about them that distinguishes them from many other Highly qualified students, many who get in it is "something genuine" not just that their parents paid for them to volunteer somewhere or start a company that is gone by the time they pay their deposit in May1

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can see people are upset because they have an investment, whether emotional, financial, or ideological, with the current modus operandi at most elite colleges so they are bitterly resistant to the changing realities surrounding elite higher education these days despite that Silver cites data showing significant shift in public perspectives on higher education and elite higher education.

This is what people thought of a freshly minted Harvard graduate in 1994: highly accomplished and brainy nerd.

This is what many people now think when they encounter a freshly minted Harvard graduate in 2024: Either a legacy admit from an extremely connected and / or wealthy family (nepotism) or a mollycoddled diversity admit benefiting from a system that rewards identity over merit. And both will bring the same increasingly annoying social justice warrior outlook largely divorced from reality.

Silver is not a right wing MAGAtard, he is a Democrat and sold his polling business to the NYT. But like a lot of very intelligent nerds, Silver doesn't shy away from frankness.

You are an idiot. The minority students at Harvard etc have near perfect test scores and/or grades. The average student now is miles ahead of the 1994 student in terms of academic indicators. Same with the wealthy kids; at the top schools everyone has the scores that's why they add other factors to select.

what no?

Let me school you a bit. Go to your chart. Check the X axis. The scale of the chart is designed to make it seem as if there are big differences amongst the scores, but the average score for all races is some form of 700. At Harvard, they taught us (even the minorities) how to discern lies backed by stats and charts.

NP--Exactly. The difference between the average score for those of Asian descent (around 770) and those of African descent (around 720) is the difference between the 99th percentile and the 98th percentile. Even Mensa takes the top 2%.

Citation needed for 98th percentile. The College Board’s most recent reporting has 1400 (two 700s) as being the top 7 percent of test takers, not the top 2. Top 7% is nowhere close to Harvard material IMO.

Oops, you're right that I had the wrong percentiles, because I was spacing out and compared 1420 and 1470 instead of 720 and 770.

Here's a link to the most recent percentiles:

https://research.collegeboard.org/reports/sat-suite/understanding-scores/sat

You are correct about 1400 being the 93rd percentile only if you are comparing solely to those who take the SAT. I use the part of the chart that looks at the entire population, which has 1400 as being the 97th percentile. When you're talking about someone's ability level, you're generally talking about their ability compared to the general population, not just to those who apply to college. If you look at scores of 720 on both sections of the SAT (1440 total), you're talking about someone in the 98th percentile of the general population in academic ability. This is strong enough for Mensa, and also for Harvard.

When you are talking about who should get into college, the relevant comparison should be among those who applied. Averaging in a host of people who are nowhere close to college material just obscures the obvious differences in performance, which is of course your goal. Lol

Um, no. Any elite college that set its cutoff such that those in the 98th percentile of the overall population were all denied would be shooting itself in the foot. Most of the highest achieving professionals did not have test scores in the top 1%.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can see people are upset because they have an investment, whether emotional, financial, or ideological, with the current modus operandi at most elite colleges so they are bitterly resistant to the changing realities surrounding elite higher education these days despite that Silver cites data showing significant shift in public perspectives on higher education and elite higher education.

This is what people thought of a freshly minted Harvard graduate in 1994: highly accomplished and brainy nerd.

This is what many people now think when they encounter a freshly minted Harvard graduate in 2024: Either a legacy admit from an extremely connected and / or wealthy family (nepotism) or a mollycoddled diversity admit benefiting from a system that rewards identity over merit. And both will bring the same increasingly annoying social justice warrior outlook largely divorced from reality.

Silver is not a right wing MAGAtard, he is a Democrat and sold his polling business to the NYT. But like a lot of very intelligent nerds, Silver doesn't shy away from frankness.

You are an idiot. The minority students at Harvard etc have near perfect test scores and/or grades. The average student now is miles ahead of the 1994 student in terms of academic indicators. Same with the wealthy kids; at the top schools everyone has the scores that's why they add other factors to select.

what no?

There is no meaningful difference between a 725 and a 750.

Exactly, the Harvard numbers actually disprove the anti diversity lies that are told about weak black and minority students at Harvard. An average of 720 for black students compared to an average of 740 for white students is not the info that the trolls want you to know.

And perhaps, instead of breaking it down by race, it should more accurately be broken down by "socio economic status". I think that would tell a much different picture. And Harvard (and other elite schools) are smart to recognize that a 1600 from a wealthy kid from Scarsdale who grew up in privilege is not that different from a 1470 from a kid who grew up in poverty, attended a HS where 25% only attend college and then it's CC or local 4 year state for majority of them, and the HS might only have 2-3 APs. So a kid who achieves great success given the obstacles in life is an amazing addition to the freshman class and you cannot truly compare them on paper to the rich kid who had all the privileges for 18+ years.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can see people are upset because they have an investment, whether emotional, financial, or ideological, with the current modus operandi at most elite colleges so they are bitterly resistant to the changing realities surrounding elite higher education these days despite that Silver cites data showing significant shift in public perspectives on higher education and elite higher education.

This is what people thought of a freshly minted Harvard graduate in 1994: highly accomplished and brainy nerd.

This is what many people now think when they encounter a freshly minted Harvard graduate in 2024: Either a legacy admit from an extremely connected and / or wealthy family (nepotism) or a mollycoddled diversity admit benefiting from a system that rewards identity over merit. And both will bring the same increasingly annoying social justice warrior outlook largely divorced from reality.

Silver is not a right wing MAGAtard, he is a Democrat and sold his polling business to the NYT. But like a lot of very intelligent nerds, Silver doesn't shy away from frankness.

You are an idiot. The minority students at Harvard etc have near perfect test scores and/or grades. The average student now is miles ahead of the 1994 student in terms of academic indicators. Same with the wealthy kids; at the top schools everyone has the scores that's why they add other factors to select.

what no?

Let me school you a bit. Go to your chart. Check the X axis. The scale of the chart is designed to make it seem as if there are big differences amongst the scores, but the average score for all races is some form of 700. At Harvard, they taught us (even the minorities) how to discern lies backed by stats and charts.

NP--Exactly. The difference between the average score for those of Asian descent (around 770) and those of African descent (around 720) is the difference between the 99th percentile and the 98th percentile. Even Mensa takes the top 2%.

I bet if you show both sections of the SAT, the difference would be wider.

Both would still be 95th percentile and above.

1400 is very different than 1600

How so?

200 point difference. That's a lot. You can't tell me that you find a 1400 as equally impressive as 1600. The median SAT scores for top tier colleges used to be > 1400. Those colleges even see the difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can see people are upset because they have an investment, whether emotional, financial, or ideological, with the current modus operandi at most elite colleges so they are bitterly resistant to the changing realities surrounding elite higher education these days despite that Silver cites data showing significant shift in public perspectives on higher education and elite higher education.

This is what people thought of a freshly minted Harvard graduate in 1994: highly accomplished and brainy nerd.

This is what many people now think when they encounter a freshly minted Harvard graduate in 2024: Either a legacy admit from an extremely connected and / or wealthy family (nepotism) or a mollycoddled diversity admit benefiting from a system that rewards identity over merit. And both will bring the same increasingly annoying social justice warrior outlook largely divorced from reality.

Silver is not a right wing MAGAtard, he is a Democrat and sold his polling business to the NYT. But like a lot of very intelligent nerds, Silver doesn't shy away from frankness.

You are an idiot. The minority students at Harvard etc have near perfect test scores and/or grades. The average student now is miles ahead of the 1994 student in terms of academic indicators. Same with the wealthy kids; at the top schools everyone has the scores that's why they add other factors to select.

what no?

There is no meaningful difference between a 725 and a 750.

Exactly, the Harvard numbers actually disprove the anti diversity lies that are told about weak black and minority students at Harvard. An average of 720 for black students compared to an average of 740 for white students is not the info that the trolls want you to know.

And perhaps, instead of breaking it down by race, it should more accurately be broken down by "socio economic status". I think that would tell a much different picture. And Harvard (and other elite schools) are smart to recognize that a 1600 from a wealthy kid from Scarsdale who grew up in privilege is not that different from a 1470 from a kid who grew up in poverty, attended a HS where 25% only attend college and then it's CC or local 4 year state for majority of them, and the HS might only have 2-3 APs. So a kid who achieves great success given the obstacles in life is an amazing addition to the freshman class and you cannot truly compare them on paper to the rich kid who had all the privileges for 18+ years.

breaking it down by SES would be better, but I bet you'd still see a difference between the races.

[Anonymous]

No one is claiming that a 1400 is equally impressive as a 1600.

[Anonymous]

A 1600 is more impressive than a 1400, but who cares? The world doesn't need professional test takers.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can see people are upset because they have an investment, whether emotional, financial, or ideological, with the current modus operandi at most elite colleges so they are bitterly resistant to the changing realities surrounding elite higher education these days despite that Silver cites data showing significant shift in public perspectives on higher education and elite higher education.

This is what people thought of a freshly minted Harvard graduate in 1994: highly accomplished and brainy nerd.

This is what many people now think when they encounter a freshly minted Harvard graduate in 2024: Either a legacy admit from an extremely connected and / or wealthy family (nepotism) or a mollycoddled diversity admit benefiting from a system that rewards identity over merit. And both will bring the same increasingly annoying social justice warrior outlook largely divorced from reality.

Silver is not a right wing MAGAtard, he is a Democrat and sold his polling business to the NYT. But like a lot of very intelligent nerds, Silver doesn't shy away from frankness.

You are an idiot. The minority students at Harvard etc have near perfect test scores and/or grades. The average student now is miles ahead of the 1994 student in terms of academic indicators. Same with the wealthy kids; at the top schools everyone has the scores that's why they add other factors to select.

what no?

Let me school you a bit. Go to your chart. Check the X axis. The scale of the chart is designed to make it seem as if there are big differences amongst the scores, but the average score for all races is some form of 700. At Harvard, they taught us (even the minorities) how to discern lies backed by stats and charts.

NP--Exactly. The difference between the average score for those of Asian descent (around 770) and those of African descent (around 720) is the difference between the 99th percentile and the 98th percentile. Even Mensa takes the top 2%.

I bet if you show both sections of the SAT, the difference would be wider.

Both would still be 95th percentile and above.

1400 is very different than 1600

How so?

200 point difference. That's a lot. You can't tell me that you find a 1400 as equally impressive as 1600. The median SAT scores for top tier colleges used to be > 1400. Those colleges even see the difference.

Percentiles are what matter, not scores. And likelihood of future success is what matters in college admission, not impressiveness of test scores.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can see people are upset because they have an investment, whether emotional, financial, or ideological, with the current modus operandi at most elite colleges so they are bitterly resistant to the changing realities surrounding elite higher education these days despite that Silver cites data showing significant shift in public perspectives on higher education and elite higher education.

This is what people thought of a freshly minted Harvard graduate in 1994: highly accomplished and brainy nerd.

This is what many people now think when they encounter a freshly minted Harvard graduate in 2024: Either a legacy admit from an extremely connected and / or wealthy family (nepotism) or a mollycoddled diversity admit benefiting from a system that rewards identity over merit. And both will bring the same increasingly annoying social justice warrior outlook largely divorced from reality.

Silver is not a right wing MAGAtard, he is a Democrat and sold his polling business to the NYT. But like a lot of very intelligent nerds, Silver doesn't shy away from frankness.

You are an idiot. The minority students at Harvard etc have near perfect test scores and/or grades. The average student now is miles ahead of the 1994 student in terms of academic indicators. Same with the wealthy kids; at the top schools everyone has the scores that's why they add other factors to select.

what no?

Let me school you a bit. Go to your chart. Check the X axis. The scale of the chart is designed to make it seem as if there are big differences amongst the scores, but the average score for all races is some form of 700. At Harvard, they taught us (even the minorities) how to discern lies backed by stats and charts.

NP--Exactly. The difference between the average score for those of Asian descent (around 770) and those of African descent (around 720) is the difference between the 99th percentile and the 98th percentile. Even Mensa takes the top 2%.

I bet if you show both sections of the SAT, the difference would be wider.

Both would still be 95th percentile and above.

1400 is very different than 1600

How so?

200 point difference. That's a lot. You can't tell me that you find a 1400 as equally impressive as 1600. The median SAT scores for top tier colleges used to be > 1400. Those colleges even see the difference.

But it IS a bell curve. Meaning at 1400 is much closer in performance to a 1600 than it is to a 1200. The difference between 1600 and 1400 is the same as it is between 1350 and 1400. And it’s completely reasonable to conclude that the lower one is a more desired applicant based on other factors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can see people are upset because they have an investment, whether emotional, financial, or ideological, with the current modus operandi at most elite colleges so they are bitterly resistant to the changing realities surrounding elite higher education these days despite that Silver cites data showing significant shift in public perspectives on higher education and elite higher education.

This is what people thought of a freshly minted Harvard graduate in 1994: highly accomplished and brainy nerd.

This is what many people now think when they encounter a freshly minted Harvard graduate in 2024: Either a legacy admit from an extremely connected and / or wealthy family (nepotism) or a mollycoddled diversity admit benefiting from a system that rewards identity over merit. And both will bring the same increasingly annoying social justice warrior outlook largely divorced from reality.

Silver is not a right wing MAGAtard, he is a Democrat and sold his polling business to the NYT. But like a lot of very intelligent nerds, Silver doesn't shy away from frankness.

You are an idiot. The minority students at Harvard etc have near perfect test scores and/or grades. The average student now is miles ahead of the 1994 student in terms of academic indicators. Same with the wealthy kids; at the top schools everyone has the scores that's why they add other factors to select.

what no?

Let me school you a bit. Go to your chart. Check the X axis. The scale of the chart is designed to make it seem as if there are big differences amongst the scores, but the average score for all races is some form of 700. At Harvard, they taught us (even the minorities) how to discern lies backed by stats and charts.

NP--Exactly. The difference between the average score for those of Asian descent (around 770) and those of African descent (around 720) is the difference between the 99th percentile and the 98th percentile. Even Mensa takes the top 2%.

I bet if you show both sections of the SAT, the difference would be wider.

Both would still be 95th percentile and above.

1400 is very different than 1600

How so?

200 point difference. That's a lot. You can't tell me that you find a 1400 as equally impressive as 1600. The median SAT scores for top tier colleges used to be > 1400. Those colleges even see the difference.

Percentiles are what matter, not scores. And likelihood of future success is what matters in college admission, not impressiveness of test scores.

Studies have shown that SAT scores reflect success in college. That's why schools like MIT, Cornell, Caltech, etc.. are bringing back tests required.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can see people are upset because they have an investment, whether emotional, financial, or ideological, with the current modus operandi at most elite colleges so they are bitterly resistant to the changing realities surrounding elite higher education these days despite that Silver cites data showing significant shift in public perspectives on higher education and elite higher education.

This is what people thought of a freshly minted Harvard graduate in 1994: highly accomplished and brainy nerd.

This is what many people now think when they encounter a freshly minted Harvard graduate in 2024: Either a legacy admit from an extremely connected and / or wealthy family (nepotism) or a mollycoddled diversity admit benefiting from a system that rewards identity over merit. And both will bring the same increasingly annoying social justice warrior outlook largely divorced from reality.

Silver is not a right wing MAGAtard, he is a Democrat and sold his polling business to the NYT. But like a lot of very intelligent nerds, Silver doesn't shy away from frankness.

You are an idiot. The minority students at Harvard etc have near perfect test scores and/or grades. The average student now is miles ahead of the 1994 student in terms of academic indicators. Same with the wealthy kids; at the top schools everyone has the scores that's why they add other factors to select.

what no?

Let me school you a bit. Go to your chart. Check the X axis. The scale of the chart is designed to make it seem as if there are big differences amongst the scores, but the average score for all races is some form of 700. At Harvard, they taught us (even the minorities) how to discern lies backed by stats and charts.

NP--Exactly. The difference between the average score for those of Asian descent (around 770) and those of African descent (around 720) is the difference between the 99th percentile and the 98th percentile. Even Mensa takes the top 2%.

I bet if you show both sections of the SAT, the difference would be wider.

Both would still be 95th percentile and above.

1400 is very different than 1600

How so?

200 point difference. That's a lot. You can't tell me that you find a 1400 as equally impressive as 1600. The median SAT scores for top tier colleges used to be > 1400. Those colleges even see the difference.

But it IS a bell curve. Meaning at 1400 is much closer in performance to a 1600 than it is to a 1200. The difference between 1600 and 1400 is the same as it is between 1350 and 1400. And it’s completely reasonable to conclude that the lower one is a more desired applicant based on other factors.

yea, like race