Bikes lanes poorly designed - unsafe for drivers and bikers

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I really appreciated the guy going 20mph on his e-bike in the bike lanes ringing his bell as he ran the red light so the pedestrians had a chance to scatter before he went through the crosswalk. All the cars at the intersection were stopped, by the way.

Wow. I also saw many cars speeding and couple running red lights yesterday. Shall we all chip in with our observations of bad behavior by road users in Washington, DC. What great fun that would be.

How many of those cars honked their horns to make pedestrians scatter out of the crosswalk while they ran the red light? I’m not talking about technical violations that may have resulted from inattention, which, while extremely dangerous, is not the same as wanton and willful lawbreaking. The problem with too many cyclists is that they expect everyone to adjust to their presence regardless of what the law is. That tendency is worse when they’re in protected bike lanes because they don’t have to worry about cars.

If I’m walking in a crosswalk, having already established a lawful presence there, stop for me. It’s the law and it’s also common courtesy.

Yes, it is. It's the law. Which is routinely broken by drivers of cars, with or without bike lanes, and when drivers do it, they can seriously injure or kill you. But sure, let's focus on bike lanes.

The more people bike instead of drive, the safer you as a pedestrian will be.

You never acknowledge that you have any responsibility for the safety of others as a cyclist, so your argument that I'll be safer with more bike lanes falls flat. That's the problem. Too many cyclists fail to take responsibility for anyone else's safety, even that of other cyclists. I'm pretty sure getting hit by a cyclist on an e-bike or regular bike at 20 mph, which is faster than cars usually go at this intersection because of the congestion, would result in some broken ribs at the least.

A regular bike at 20 mph on a bike lane in your mysterious unnamed intersection in DC? Where is that mysterious unnamed intersection, by the way?

It’s on a downhill. It’s an easy 20. You still keep deflecting instead of acknowledging how your own conduct can put other people at risk.

I’ve seen cyclists go faster than that on sidewalks. I was driving down one of those streets named after a state, going maybe 25mph, and was passed by a bike on the sidewalk

Faster than 25 mph, on a bike, on the sidewalk of a street in DC. You don't say.

People do some crazy shit

People also have no sense of speed. Unless you have Olympian-level strength, attaining - let alone maintaining - 25mph on level ground is very difficult and especially so on a confined space such as a sidewalk. 15mph is possible but that’s about it.

Nonetheless I’d be all for a law banning cycling on any and all sidewalks where there is an adjacent protected bike lane. That is entirely reasonable.

It’s not uncommon for runners to run five minute miles. That translates to 12 miles per hour. Someone on a bike could easily go twice that.

Why do you feel qualified to opine on that which you know very little. Here is a reference that may prove educative for you: https://www.bikelockwiki.com/average-cycling-speed/

20 mph (PP's estimate) is right in the middle of the average for an advanced cyclist and on a downhill they could easily get to 24 mph (the average top-end speed for an advanced cyclist). Thanks for the link.

It's good to hear that DC's sidewalks are in such an outstanding, smooth, unblocked, non-bumpy condition that athletes can reach Tour de France speeds on them.

PP wasn't talking about a sidewalk. PP was talking about a protected bike lane on a downhill stretch. Just keep deflecting.

Huh?

“I’ve seen cyclists go faster than that on sidewalks. I was driving down one of those streets named after a state, going maybe 25mph, and was passed by a bike on the sidewalk”

No cyclist are doing those speeds on a sidewalk. It’s patently absurd. To assert such only shows you no nothing about speed nor cycling.

The discussion about speed started with this: "I'm pretty sure getting hit by a cyclist on an e-bike or regular bike at 20 mph, which is faster than cars usually go at this intersection because of the congestion, would result in some broken ribs at the least." One of the bike trolls claimed no one rode 20 mph in a bike lane, which prompted the dubious claim of 25 mph on a sidewalk.

Where exactly is the claim that no one rides 20 mph in a bike lane?

Here: "A regular bike at 20 mph on a bike lane in your mysterious unnamed intersection in DC? Where is that mysterious unnamed intersection, by the way?"

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really appreciated the guy going 20mph on his e-bike in the bike lanes ringing his bell as he ran the red light so the pedestrians had a chance to scatter before he went through the crosswalk. All the cars at the intersection were stopped, by the way.

Wow. I also saw many cars speeding and couple running red lights yesterday. Shall we all chip in with our observations of bad behavior by road users in Washington, DC. What great fun that would be.

How many of those cars honked their horns to make pedestrians scatter out of the crosswalk while they ran the red light? I’m not talking about technical violations that may have resulted from inattention, which, while extremely dangerous, is not the same as wanton and willful lawbreaking. The problem with too many cyclists is that they expect everyone to adjust to their presence regardless of what the law is. That tendency is worse when they’re in protected bike lanes because they don’t have to worry about cars.

If I’m walking in a crosswalk, having already established a lawful presence there, stop for me. It’s the law and it’s also common courtesy.

Yes, it is. It's the law. Which is routinely broken by drivers of cars, with or without bike lanes, and when drivers do it, they can seriously injure or kill you. But sure, let's focus on bike lanes.

The more people bike instead of drive, the safer you as a pedestrian will be.

You never acknowledge that you have any responsibility for the safety of others as a cyclist, so your argument that I'll be safer with more bike lanes falls flat. That's the problem. Too many cyclists fail to take responsibility for anyone else's safety, even that of other cyclists. I'm pretty sure getting hit by a cyclist on an e-bike or regular bike at 20 mph, which is faster than cars usually go at this intersection because of the congestion, would result in some broken ribs at the least.

A regular bike at 20 mph on a bike lane in your mysterious unnamed intersection in DC? Where is that mysterious unnamed intersection, by the way?

It’s on a downhill. It’s an easy 20. You still keep deflecting instead of acknowledging how your own conduct can put other people at risk.

I’ve seen cyclists go faster than that on sidewalks. I was driving down one of those streets named after a state, going maybe 25mph, and was passed by a bike on the sidewalk

Faster than 25 mph, on a bike, on the sidewalk of a street in DC. You don't say.

People do some crazy shit

People also have no sense of speed. Unless you have Olympian-level strength, attaining - let alone maintaining - 25mph on level ground is very difficult and especially so on a confined space such as a sidewalk. 15mph is possible but that’s about it.

Nonetheless I’d be all for a law banning cycling on any and all sidewalks where there is an adjacent protected bike lane. That is entirely reasonable.

It’s not uncommon for runners to run five minute miles. That translates to 12 miles per hour. Someone on a bike could easily go twice that.

Why do you feel qualified to opine on that which you know very little. Here is a reference that may prove educative for you: https://www.bikelockwiki.com/average-cycling-speed/

20 mph (PP's estimate) is right in the middle of the average for an advanced cyclist and on a downhill they could easily get to 24 mph (the average top-end speed for an advanced cyclist). Thanks for the link.

It's good to hear that DC's sidewalks are in such an outstanding, smooth, unblocked, non-bumpy condition that athletes can reach Tour de France speeds on them.

PP wasn't talking about a sidewalk. PP was talking about a protected bike lane on a downhill stretch. Just keep deflecting.

Huh?

“I’ve seen cyclists go faster than that on sidewalks. I was driving down one of those streets named after a state, going maybe 25mph, and was passed by a bike on the sidewalk”

No cyclist are doing those speeds on a sidewalk. It’s patently absurd. To assert such only shows you no nothing about speed nor cycling.

The discussion about speed started with this: "I'm pretty sure getting hit by a cyclist on an e-bike or regular bike at 20 mph, which is faster than cars usually go at this intersection because of the congestion, would result in some broken ribs at the least." One of the bike trolls claimed no one rode 20 mph in a bike lane, which prompted the dubious claim of 25 mph on a sidewalk.

Where exactly is the claim that no one rides 20 mph in a bike lane?

Here: "A regular bike at 20 mph on a bike lane in your mysterious unnamed intersection in DC? Where is that mysterious unnamed intersection, by the way?"

So where is it?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really appreciated the guy going 20mph on his e-bike in the bike lanes ringing his bell as he ran the red light so the pedestrians had a chance to scatter before he went through the crosswalk. All the cars at the intersection were stopped, by the way.

Wow. I also saw many cars speeding and couple running red lights yesterday. Shall we all chip in with our observations of bad behavior by road users in Washington, DC. What great fun that would be.

How many of those cars honked their horns to make pedestrians scatter out of the crosswalk while they ran the red light? I’m not talking about technical violations that may have resulted from inattention, which, while extremely dangerous, is not the same as wanton and willful lawbreaking. The problem with too many cyclists is that they expect everyone to adjust to their presence regardless of what the law is. That tendency is worse when they’re in protected bike lanes because they don’t have to worry about cars.

If I’m walking in a crosswalk, having already established a lawful presence there, stop for me. It’s the law and it’s also common courtesy.

Yes, it is. It's the law. Which is routinely broken by drivers of cars, with or without bike lanes, and when drivers do it, they can seriously injure or kill you. But sure, let's focus on bike lanes.

The more people bike instead of drive, the safer you as a pedestrian will be.

You never acknowledge that you have any responsibility for the safety of others as a cyclist, so your argument that I'll be safer with more bike lanes falls flat. That's the problem. Too many cyclists fail to take responsibility for anyone else's safety, even that of other cyclists. I'm pretty sure getting hit by a cyclist on an e-bike or regular bike at 20 mph, which is faster than cars usually go at this intersection because of the congestion, would result in some broken ribs at the least.

A regular bike at 20 mph on a bike lane in your mysterious unnamed intersection in DC? Where is that mysterious unnamed intersection, by the way?

It’s on a downhill. It’s an easy 20. You still keep deflecting instead of acknowledging how your own conduct can put other people at risk.

I’ve seen cyclists go faster than that on sidewalks. I was driving down one of those streets named after a state, going maybe 25mph, and was passed by a bike on the sidewalk

Faster than 25 mph, on a bike, on the sidewalk of a street in DC. You don't say.

People do some crazy shit

People also have no sense of speed. Unless you have Olympian-level strength, attaining - let alone maintaining - 25mph on level ground is very difficult and especially so on a confined space such as a sidewalk. 15mph is possible but that’s about it.

Nonetheless I’d be all for a law banning cycling on any and all sidewalks where there is an adjacent protected bike lane. That is entirely reasonable.

It’s not uncommon for runners to run five minute miles. That translates to 12 miles per hour. Someone on a bike could easily go twice that.

Why do you feel qualified to opine on that which you know very little. Here is a reference that may prove educative for you: https://www.bikelockwiki.com/average-cycling-speed/

20 mph (PP's estimate) is right in the middle of the average for an advanced cyclist and on a downhill they could easily get to 24 mph (the average top-end speed for an advanced cyclist). Thanks for the link.

It's good to hear that DC's sidewalks are in such an outstanding, smooth, unblocked, non-bumpy condition that athletes can reach Tour de France speeds on them.

PP wasn't talking about a sidewalk. PP was talking about a protected bike lane on a downhill stretch. Just keep deflecting.

Huh?

“I’ve seen cyclists go faster than that on sidewalks. I was driving down one of those streets named after a state, going maybe 25mph, and was passed by a bike on the sidewalk”

No cyclist are doing those speeds on a sidewalk. It’s patently absurd. To assert such only shows you no nothing about speed nor cycling.

The discussion about speed started with this: "I'm pretty sure getting hit by a cyclist on an e-bike or regular bike at 20 mph, which is faster than cars usually go at this intersection because of the congestion, would result in some broken ribs at the least." One of the bike trolls claimed no one rode 20 mph in a bike lane, which prompted the dubious claim of 25 mph on a sidewalk.

Where exactly is the claim that no one rides 20 mph in a bike lane?

Here: "A regular bike at 20 mph on a bike lane in your mysterious unnamed intersection in DC? Where is that mysterious unnamed intersection, by the way?"

So where is it?

None of your business.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really appreciated the guy going 20mph on his e-bike in the bike lanes ringing his bell as he ran the red light so the pedestrians had a chance to scatter before he went through the crosswalk. All the cars at the intersection were stopped, by the way.

Wow. I also saw many cars speeding and couple running red lights yesterday. Shall we all chip in with our observations of bad behavior by road users in Washington, DC. What great fun that would be.

How many of those cars honked their horns to make pedestrians scatter out of the crosswalk while they ran the red light? I’m not talking about technical violations that may have resulted from inattention, which, while extremely dangerous, is not the same as wanton and willful lawbreaking. The problem with too many cyclists is that they expect everyone to adjust to their presence regardless of what the law is. That tendency is worse when they’re in protected bike lanes because they don’t have to worry about cars.

If I’m walking in a crosswalk, having already established a lawful presence there, stop for me. It’s the law and it’s also common courtesy.

Yes, it is. It's the law. Which is routinely broken by drivers of cars, with or without bike lanes, and when drivers do it, they can seriously injure or kill you. But sure, let's focus on bike lanes.

The more people bike instead of drive, the safer you as a pedestrian will be.

You never acknowledge that you have any responsibility for the safety of others as a cyclist, so your argument that I'll be safer with more bike lanes falls flat. That's the problem. Too many cyclists fail to take responsibility for anyone else's safety, even that of other cyclists. I'm pretty sure getting hit by a cyclist on an e-bike or regular bike at 20 mph, which is faster than cars usually go at this intersection because of the congestion, would result in some broken ribs at the least.

A regular bike at 20 mph on a bike lane in your mysterious unnamed intersection in DC? Where is that mysterious unnamed intersection, by the way?

It’s on a downhill. It’s an easy 20. You still keep deflecting instead of acknowledging how your own conduct can put other people at risk.

I’ve seen cyclists go faster than that on sidewalks. I was driving down one of those streets named after a state, going maybe 25mph, and was passed by a bike on the sidewalk

Faster than 25 mph, on a bike, on the sidewalk of a street in DC. You don't say.

People do some crazy shit

People also have no sense of speed. Unless you have Olympian-level strength, attaining - let alone maintaining - 25mph on level ground is very difficult and especially so on a confined space such as a sidewalk. 15mph is possible but that’s about it.

Nonetheless I’d be all for a law banning cycling on any and all sidewalks where there is an adjacent protected bike lane. That is entirely reasonable.

It’s not uncommon for runners to run five minute miles. That translates to 12 miles per hour. Someone on a bike could easily go twice that.

Why do you feel qualified to opine on that which you know very little. Here is a reference that may prove educative for you: https://www.bikelockwiki.com/average-cycling-speed/

20 mph (PP's estimate) is right in the middle of the average for an advanced cyclist and on a downhill they could easily get to 24 mph (the average top-end speed for an advanced cyclist). Thanks for the link.

It's good to hear that DC's sidewalks are in such an outstanding, smooth, unblocked, non-bumpy condition that athletes can reach Tour de France speeds on them.

PP wasn't talking about a sidewalk. PP was talking about a protected bike lane on a downhill stretch. Just keep deflecting.

Huh?

“I’ve seen cyclists go faster than that on sidewalks. I was driving down one of those streets named after a state, going maybe 25mph, and was passed by a bike on the sidewalk”

No cyclist are doing those speeds on a sidewalk. It’s patently absurd. To assert such only shows you no nothing about speed nor cycling.

The discussion about speed started with this: "I'm pretty sure getting hit by a cyclist on an e-bike or regular bike at 20 mph, which is faster than cars usually go at this intersection because of the congestion, would result in some broken ribs at the least." One of the bike trolls claimed no one rode 20 mph in a bike lane, which prompted the dubious claim of 25 mph on a sidewalk.

20 mph downhill on the road or a bike lane is certainly possible. But any cyclist who routinely runs red lights or stop signs at 20 mph is not someone who is going to be around long enough for you to worry much about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really appreciated the guy going 20mph on his e-bike in the bike lanes ringing his bell as he ran the red light so the pedestrians had a chance to scatter before he went through the crosswalk. All the cars at the intersection were stopped, by the way.

Wow. I also saw many cars speeding and couple running red lights yesterday. Shall we all chip in with our observations of bad behavior by road users in Washington, DC. What great fun that would be.

How many of those cars honked their horns to make pedestrians scatter out of the crosswalk while they ran the red light? I’m not talking about technical violations that may have resulted from inattention, which, while extremely dangerous, is not the same as wanton and willful lawbreaking. The problem with too many cyclists is that they expect everyone to adjust to their presence regardless of what the law is. That tendency is worse when they’re in protected bike lanes because they don’t have to worry about cars.

If I’m walking in a crosswalk, having already established a lawful presence there, stop for me. It’s the law and it’s also common courtesy.

Yes, it is. It's the law. Which is routinely broken by drivers of cars, with or without bike lanes, and when drivers do it, they can seriously injure or kill you. But sure, let's focus on bike lanes.

The more people bike instead of drive, the safer you as a pedestrian will be.

You never acknowledge that you have any responsibility for the safety of others as a cyclist, so your argument that I'll be safer with more bike lanes falls flat. That's the problem. Too many cyclists fail to take responsibility for anyone else's safety, even that of other cyclists. I'm pretty sure getting hit by a cyclist on an e-bike or regular bike at 20 mph, which is faster than cars usually go at this intersection because of the congestion, would result in some broken ribs at the least.

A regular bike at 20 mph on a bike lane in your mysterious unnamed intersection in DC? Where is that mysterious unnamed intersection, by the way?

It’s on a downhill. It’s an easy 20. You still keep deflecting instead of acknowledging how your own conduct can put other people at risk.

I’ve seen cyclists go faster than that on sidewalks. I was driving down one of those streets named after a state, going maybe 25mph, and was passed by a bike on the sidewalk

Faster than 25 mph, on a bike, on the sidewalk of a street in DC. You don't say.

People do some crazy shit

People also have no sense of speed. Unless you have Olympian-level strength, attaining - let alone maintaining - 25mph on level ground is very difficult and especially so on a confined space such as a sidewalk. 15mph is possible but that’s about it.

Nonetheless I’d be all for a law banning cycling on any and all sidewalks where there is an adjacent protected bike lane. That is entirely reasonable.

It’s not uncommon for runners to run five minute miles. That translates to 12 miles per hour. Someone on a bike could easily go twice that.

Why do you feel qualified to opine on that which you know very little. Here is a reference that may prove educative for you: https://www.bikelockwiki.com/average-cycling-speed/

20 mph (PP's estimate) is right in the middle of the average for an advanced cyclist and on a downhill they could easily get to 24 mph (the average top-end speed for an advanced cyclist). Thanks for the link.

Two times 12 mph is 20 mph?

Your math is about as good as your takes.

Where did I say that?

“It’s not uncommon for runners to run five minute miles. That translates to 12 miles per hour. Someone on a bike could easily go twice that.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really appreciated the guy going 20mph on his e-bike in the bike lanes ringing his bell as he ran the red light so the pedestrians had a chance to scatter before he went through the crosswalk. All the cars at the intersection were stopped, by the way.

Wow. I also saw many cars speeding and couple running red lights yesterday. Shall we all chip in with our observations of bad behavior by road users in Washington, DC. What great fun that would be.

How many of those cars honked their horns to make pedestrians scatter out of the crosswalk while they ran the red light? I’m not talking about technical violations that may have resulted from inattention, which, while extremely dangerous, is not the same as wanton and willful lawbreaking. The problem with too many cyclists is that they expect everyone to adjust to their presence regardless of what the law is. That tendency is worse when they’re in protected bike lanes because they don’t have to worry about cars.

If I’m walking in a crosswalk, having already established a lawful presence there, stop for me. It’s the law and it’s also common courtesy.

Yes, it is. It's the law. Which is routinely broken by drivers of cars, with or without bike lanes, and when drivers do it, they can seriously injure or kill you. But sure, let's focus on bike lanes.

The more people bike instead of drive, the safer you as a pedestrian will be.

You never acknowledge that you have any responsibility for the safety of others as a cyclist, so your argument that I'll be safer with more bike lanes falls flat. That's the problem. Too many cyclists fail to take responsibility for anyone else's safety, even that of other cyclists. I'm pretty sure getting hit by a cyclist on an e-bike or regular bike at 20 mph, which is faster than cars usually go at this intersection because of the congestion, would result in some broken ribs at the least.

A regular bike at 20 mph on a bike lane in your mysterious unnamed intersection in DC? Where is that mysterious unnamed intersection, by the way?

It’s on a downhill. It’s an easy 20. You still keep deflecting instead of acknowledging how your own conduct can put other people at risk.

I’ve seen cyclists go faster than that on sidewalks. I was driving down one of those streets named after a state, going maybe 25mph, and was passed by a bike on the sidewalk

Faster than 25 mph, on a bike, on the sidewalk of a street in DC. You don't say.

People do some crazy shit

People also have no sense of speed. Unless you have Olympian-level strength, attaining - let alone maintaining - 25mph on level ground is very difficult and especially so on a confined space such as a sidewalk. 15mph is possible but that’s about it.

Nonetheless I’d be all for a law banning cycling on any and all sidewalks where there is an adjacent protected bike lane. That is entirely reasonable.

It’s not uncommon for runners to run five minute miles. That translates to 12 miles per hour. Someone on a bike could easily go twice that.

Why do you feel qualified to opine on that which you know very little. Here is a reference that may prove educative for you: https://www.bikelockwiki.com/average-cycling-speed/

20 mph (PP's estimate) is right in the middle of the average for an advanced cyclist and on a downhill they could easily get to 24 mph (the average top-end speed for an advanced cyclist). Thanks for the link.

It's good to hear that DC's sidewalks are in such an outstanding, smooth, unblocked, non-bumpy condition that athletes can reach Tour de France speeds on them.

PP wasn't talking about a sidewalk. PP was talking about a protected bike lane on a downhill stretch. Just keep deflecting.

Huh?

“I’ve seen cyclists go faster than that on sidewalks. I was driving down one of those streets named after a state, going maybe 25mph, and was passed by a bike on the sidewalk”

No cyclist are doing those speeds on a sidewalk. It’s patently absurd. To assert such only shows you no nothing about speed nor cycling.

The discussion about speed started with this: "I'm pretty sure getting hit by a cyclist on an e-bike or regular bike at 20 mph, which is faster than cars usually go at this intersection because of the congestion, would result in some broken ribs at the least." One of the bike trolls claimed no one rode 20 mph in a bike lane, which prompted the dubious claim of 25 mph on a sidewalk.

Where exactly is the claim that no one rides 20 mph in a bike lane?

Here: "A regular bike at 20 mph on a bike lane in your mysterious unnamed intersection in DC? Where is that mysterious unnamed intersection, by the way?"

So where is it?

St. Petersburg, FL?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really appreciated the guy going 20mph on his e-bike in the bike lanes ringing his bell as he ran the red light so the pedestrians had a chance to scatter before he went through the crosswalk. All the cars at the intersection were stopped, by the way.

Wow. I also saw many cars speeding and couple running red lights yesterday. Shall we all chip in with our observations of bad behavior by road users in Washington, DC. What great fun that would be.

How many of those cars honked their horns to make pedestrians scatter out of the crosswalk while they ran the red light? I’m not talking about technical violations that may have resulted from inattention, which, while extremely dangerous, is not the same as wanton and willful lawbreaking. The problem with too many cyclists is that they expect everyone to adjust to their presence regardless of what the law is. That tendency is worse when they’re in protected bike lanes because they don’t have to worry about cars.

If I’m walking in a crosswalk, having already established a lawful presence there, stop for me. It’s the law and it’s also common courtesy.

Yes, it is. It's the law. Which is routinely broken by drivers of cars, with or without bike lanes, and when drivers do it, they can seriously injure or kill you. But sure, let's focus on bike lanes.

The more people bike instead of drive, the safer you as a pedestrian will be.

You never acknowledge that you have any responsibility for the safety of others as a cyclist, so your argument that I'll be safer with more bike lanes falls flat. That's the problem. Too many cyclists fail to take responsibility for anyone else's safety, even that of other cyclists. I'm pretty sure getting hit by a cyclist on an e-bike or regular bike at 20 mph, which is faster than cars usually go at this intersection because of the congestion, would result in some broken ribs at the least.

A regular bike at 20 mph on a bike lane in your mysterious unnamed intersection in DC? Where is that mysterious unnamed intersection, by the way?

It’s on a downhill. It’s an easy 20. You still keep deflecting instead of acknowledging how your own conduct can put other people at risk.

I’ve seen cyclists go faster than that on sidewalks. I was driving down one of those streets named after a state, going maybe 25mph, and was passed by a bike on the sidewalk

Faster than 25 mph, on a bike, on the sidewalk of a street in DC. You don't say.

People do some crazy shit

People also have no sense of speed. Unless you have Olympian-level strength, attaining - let alone maintaining - 25mph on level ground is very difficult and especially so on a confined space such as a sidewalk. 15mph is possible but that’s about it.

Nonetheless I’d be all for a law banning cycling on any and all sidewalks where there is an adjacent protected bike lane. That is entirely reasonable.

It’s not uncommon for runners to run five minute miles. That translates to 12 miles per hour. Someone on a bike could easily go twice that.

Why do you feel qualified to opine on that which you know very little. Here is a reference that may prove educative for you: https://www.bikelockwiki.com/average-cycling-speed/

20 mph (PP's estimate) is right in the middle of the average for an advanced cyclist and on a downhill they could easily get to 24 mph (the average top-end speed for an advanced cyclist). Thanks for the link.

Two times 12 mph is 20 mph?

Your math is about as good as your takes.

Where did I say that?

“It’s not uncommon for runners to run five minute miles. That translates to 12 miles per hour. Someone on a bike could easily go twice that.”

Different posters, chief.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really appreciated the guy going 20mph on his e-bike in the bike lanes ringing his bell as he ran the red light so the pedestrians had a chance to scatter before he went through the crosswalk. All the cars at the intersection were stopped, by the way.

Wow. I also saw many cars speeding and couple running red lights yesterday. Shall we all chip in with our observations of bad behavior by road users in Washington, DC. What great fun that would be.

How many of those cars honked their horns to make pedestrians scatter out of the crosswalk while they ran the red light? I’m not talking about technical violations that may have resulted from inattention, which, while extremely dangerous, is not the same as wanton and willful lawbreaking. The problem with too many cyclists is that they expect everyone to adjust to their presence regardless of what the law is. That tendency is worse when they’re in protected bike lanes because they don’t have to worry about cars.

If I’m walking in a crosswalk, having already established a lawful presence there, stop for me. It’s the law and it’s also common courtesy.

Yes, it is. It's the law. Which is routinely broken by drivers of cars, with or without bike lanes, and when drivers do it, they can seriously injure or kill you. But sure, let's focus on bike lanes.

The more people bike instead of drive, the safer you as a pedestrian will be.

You never acknowledge that you have any responsibility for the safety of others as a cyclist, so your argument that I'll be safer with more bike lanes falls flat. That's the problem. Too many cyclists fail to take responsibility for anyone else's safety, even that of other cyclists. I'm pretty sure getting hit by a cyclist on an e-bike or regular bike at 20 mph, which is faster than cars usually go at this intersection because of the congestion, would result in some broken ribs at the least.

A regular bike at 20 mph on a bike lane in your mysterious unnamed intersection in DC? Where is that mysterious unnamed intersection, by the way?

It’s on a downhill. It’s an easy 20. You still keep deflecting instead of acknowledging how your own conduct can put other people at risk.

I’ve seen cyclists go faster than that on sidewalks. I was driving down one of those streets named after a state, going maybe 25mph, and was passed by a bike on the sidewalk

Faster than 25 mph, on a bike, on the sidewalk of a street in DC. You don't say.

People do some crazy shit

People also have no sense of speed. Unless you have Olympian-level strength, attaining - let alone maintaining - 25mph on level ground is very difficult and especially so on a confined space such as a sidewalk. 15mph is possible but that’s about it.

Nonetheless I’d be all for a law banning cycling on any and all sidewalks where there is an adjacent protected bike lane. That is entirely reasonable.

It’s not uncommon for runners to run five minute miles. That translates to 12 miles per hour. Someone on a bike could easily go twice that.

Why do you feel qualified to opine on that which you know very little. Here is a reference that may prove educative for you: https://www.bikelockwiki.com/average-cycling-speed/

20 mph (PP's estimate) is right in the middle of the average for an advanced cyclist and on a downhill they could easily get to 24 mph (the average top-end speed for an advanced cyclist). Thanks for the link.

It's good to hear that DC's sidewalks are in such an outstanding, smooth, unblocked, non-bumpy condition that athletes can reach Tour de France speeds on them.

PP wasn't talking about a sidewalk. PP was talking about a protected bike lane on a downhill stretch. Just keep deflecting.

Huh?

“I’ve seen cyclists go faster than that on sidewalks. I was driving down one of those streets named after a state, going maybe 25mph, and was passed by a bike on the sidewalk”

No cyclist are doing those speeds on a sidewalk. It’s patently absurd. To assert such only shows you no nothing about speed nor cycling.

The discussion about speed started with this: "I'm pretty sure getting hit by a cyclist on an e-bike or regular bike at 20 mph, which is faster than cars usually go at this intersection because of the congestion, would result in some broken ribs at the least." One of the bike trolls claimed no one rode 20 mph in a bike lane, which prompted the dubious claim of 25 mph on a sidewalk.

20 mph downhill on the road or a bike lane is certainly possible. But any cyclist who routinely runs red lights or stop signs at 20 mph is not someone who is going to be around long enough for you to worry much about.

Don’t you understand? Nothing is ever a cyclist’s fault. If a cyclist ran a stop sign at 30 mph and got hit by a car and died, it would be the driver’s fault regardless of the details of what actually happened.

[Anonymous]

There are high school kids who can run 20 mph. You don’t think you could beat them on a bike? Sad, bro. Time to lay off the cupcakes

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really appreciated the guy going 20mph on his e-bike in the bike lanes ringing his bell as he ran the red light so the pedestrians had a chance to scatter before he went through the crosswalk. All the cars at the intersection were stopped, by the way.

Wow. I also saw many cars speeding and couple running red lights yesterday. Shall we all chip in with our observations of bad behavior by road users in Washington, DC. What great fun that would be.

How many of those cars honked their horns to make pedestrians scatter out of the crosswalk while they ran the red light? I’m not talking about technical violations that may have resulted from inattention, which, while extremely dangerous, is not the same as wanton and willful lawbreaking. The problem with too many cyclists is that they expect everyone to adjust to their presence regardless of what the law is. That tendency is worse when they’re in protected bike lanes because they don’t have to worry about cars.

If I’m walking in a crosswalk, having already established a lawful presence there, stop for me. It’s the law and it’s also common courtesy.

Yes, it is. It's the law. Which is routinely broken by drivers of cars, with or without bike lanes, and when drivers do it, they can seriously injure or kill you. But sure, let's focus on bike lanes.

The more people bike instead of drive, the safer you as a pedestrian will be.

You never acknowledge that you have any responsibility for the safety of others as a cyclist, so your argument that I'll be safer with more bike lanes falls flat. That's the problem. Too many cyclists fail to take responsibility for anyone else's safety, even that of other cyclists. I'm pretty sure getting hit by a cyclist on an e-bike or regular bike at 20 mph, which is faster than cars usually go at this intersection because of the congestion, would result in some broken ribs at the least.

A regular bike at 20 mph on a bike lane in your mysterious unnamed intersection in DC? Where is that mysterious unnamed intersection, by the way?

It’s on a downhill. It’s an easy 20. You still keep deflecting instead of acknowledging how your own conduct can put other people at risk.

I’ve seen cyclists go faster than that on sidewalks. I was driving down one of those streets named after a state, going maybe 25mph, and was passed by a bike on the sidewalk

Faster than 25 mph, on a bike, on the sidewalk of a street in DC. You don't say.

People do some crazy shit

People also have no sense of speed. Unless you have Olympian-level strength, attaining - let alone maintaining - 25mph on level ground is very difficult and especially so on a confined space such as a sidewalk. 15mph is possible but that’s about it.

Nonetheless I’d be all for a law banning cycling on any and all sidewalks where there is an adjacent protected bike lane. That is entirely reasonable.

It’s not uncommon for runners to run five minute miles. That translates to 12 miles per hour. Someone on a bike could easily go twice that.

Why do you feel qualified to opine on that which you know very little. Here is a reference that may prove educative for you: https://www.bikelockwiki.com/average-cycling-speed/

20 mph (PP's estimate) is right in the middle of the average for an advanced cyclist and on a downhill they could easily get to 24 mph (the average top-end speed for an advanced cyclist). Thanks for the link.

It's good to hear that DC's sidewalks are in such an outstanding, smooth, unblocked, non-bumpy condition that athletes can reach Tour de France speeds on them.

PP wasn't talking about a sidewalk. PP was talking about a protected bike lane on a downhill stretch. Just keep deflecting.

Huh?

“I’ve seen cyclists go faster than that on sidewalks. I was driving down one of those streets named after a state, going maybe 25mph, and was passed by a bike on the sidewalk”

No cyclist are doing those speeds on a sidewalk. It’s patently absurd. To assert such only shows you no nothing about speed nor cycling.

The discussion about speed started with this: "I'm pretty sure getting hit by a cyclist on an e-bike or regular bike at 20 mph, which is faster than cars usually go at this intersection because of the congestion, would result in some broken ribs at the least." One of the bike trolls claimed no one rode 20 mph in a bike lane, which prompted the dubious claim of 25 mph on a sidewalk.

20 mph downhill on the road or a bike lane is certainly possible. But any cyclist who routinely runs red lights or stop signs at 20 mph is not someone who is going to be around long enough for you to worry much about.

Don’t you understand? Nothing is ever a cyclist’s fault. If a cyclist ran a stop sign at 30 mph and got hit by a car and died, it would be the driver’s fault regardless of the details of what actually happened.

How cute. But no. The DC cyclist who ran a red light and knocked into a woman who later died was ticketed for disobeying a traffic signal and was subsequently sued into bankruptcy. The cyclist who got into a drunken altercation with a driver and ended up hitting him with his bike lock was convicted of a hate crime and sentenced to 5 years in prison. Meanwhile, we’re still waiting for the drivers who killed two cyclists at Hains Point and a pedestrian in Adam’s Morgan - to name but two - to face any measure of justice. So the facts demonstrably do not fit your ridiculous assertion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really appreciated the guy going 20mph on his e-bike in the bike lanes ringing his bell as he ran the red light so the pedestrians had a chance to scatter before he went through the crosswalk. All the cars at the intersection were stopped, by the way.

Wow. I also saw many cars speeding and couple running red lights yesterday. Shall we all chip in with our observations of bad behavior by road users in Washington, DC. What great fun that would be.

How many of those cars honked their horns to make pedestrians scatter out of the crosswalk while they ran the red light? I’m not talking about technical violations that may have resulted from inattention, which, while extremely dangerous, is not the same as wanton and willful lawbreaking. The problem with too many cyclists is that they expect everyone to adjust to their presence regardless of what the law is. That tendency is worse when they’re in protected bike lanes because they don’t have to worry about cars.

If I’m walking in a crosswalk, having already established a lawful presence there, stop for me. It’s the law and it’s also common courtesy.

Yes, it is. It's the law. Which is routinely broken by drivers of cars, with or without bike lanes, and when drivers do it, they can seriously injure or kill you. But sure, let's focus on bike lanes.

The more people bike instead of drive, the safer you as a pedestrian will be.

You never acknowledge that you have any responsibility for the safety of others as a cyclist, so your argument that I'll be safer with more bike lanes falls flat. That's the problem. Too many cyclists fail to take responsibility for anyone else's safety, even that of other cyclists. I'm pretty sure getting hit by a cyclist on an e-bike or regular bike at 20 mph, which is faster than cars usually go at this intersection because of the congestion, would result in some broken ribs at the least.

A regular bike at 20 mph on a bike lane in your mysterious unnamed intersection in DC? Where is that mysterious unnamed intersection, by the way?

It’s on a downhill. It’s an easy 20. You still keep deflecting instead of acknowledging how your own conduct can put other people at risk.

I’ve seen cyclists go faster than that on sidewalks. I was driving down one of those streets named after a state, going maybe 25mph, and was passed by a bike on the sidewalk

Faster than 25 mph, on a bike, on the sidewalk of a street in DC. You don't say.

People do some crazy shit

People also have no sense of speed. Unless you have Olympian-level strength, attaining - let alone maintaining - 25mph on level ground is very difficult and especially so on a confined space such as a sidewalk. 15mph is possible but that’s about it.

Nonetheless I’d be all for a law banning cycling on any and all sidewalks where there is an adjacent protected bike lane. That is entirely reasonable.

It’s not uncommon for runners to run five minute miles. That translates to 12 miles per hour. Someone on a bike could easily go twice that.

Why do you feel qualified to opine on that which you know very little. Here is a reference that may prove educative for you: https://www.bikelockwiki.com/average-cycling-speed/

20 mph (PP's estimate) is right in the middle of the average for an advanced cyclist and on a downhill they could easily get to 24 mph (the average top-end speed for an advanced cyclist). Thanks for the link.

It's good to hear that DC's sidewalks are in such an outstanding, smooth, unblocked, non-bumpy condition that athletes can reach Tour de France speeds on them.

PP wasn't talking about a sidewalk. PP was talking about a protected bike lane on a downhill stretch. Just keep deflecting.

Huh?

“I’ve seen cyclists go faster than that on sidewalks. I was driving down one of those streets named after a state, going maybe 25mph, and was passed by a bike on the sidewalk”

No cyclist are doing those speeds on a sidewalk. It’s patently absurd. To assert such only shows you no nothing about speed nor cycling.

The discussion about speed started with this: "I'm pretty sure getting hit by a cyclist on an e-bike or regular bike at 20 mph, which is faster than cars usually go at this intersection because of the congestion, would result in some broken ribs at the least." One of the bike trolls claimed no one rode 20 mph in a bike lane, which prompted the dubious claim of 25 mph on a sidewalk.

20 mph downhill on the road or a bike lane is certainly possible. But any cyclist who routinely runs red lights or stop signs at 20 mph is not someone who is going to be around long enough for you to worry much about.

Don’t you understand? Nothing is ever a cyclist’s fault. If a cyclist ran a stop sign at 30 mph and got hit by a car and died, it would be the driver’s fault regardless of the details of what actually happened.

How cute. But no. The DC cyclist who ran a red light and knocked into a woman who later died was ticketed for disobeying a traffic signal and was subsequently sued into bankruptcy. The cyclist who got into a drunken altercation with a driver and ended up hitting him with his bike lock was convicted of a hate crime and sentenced to 5 years in prison. Meanwhile, we’re still waiting for the drivers who killed two cyclists at Hains Point and a pedestrian in Adam’s Morgan - to name but two - to face any measure of justice. So the facts demonstrably do not fit your ridiculous assertion.

The Hains Point victims were pedestrians who drove there and the accident was caused by a lot of things, including bicyclists biking in the road instead of the bike path.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really appreciated the guy going 20mph on his e-bike in the bike lanes ringing his bell as he ran the red light so the pedestrians had a chance to scatter before he went through the crosswalk. All the cars at the intersection were stopped, by the way.

Wow. I also saw many cars speeding and couple running red lights yesterday. Shall we all chip in with our observations of bad behavior by road users in Washington, DC. What great fun that would be.

How many of those cars honked their horns to make pedestrians scatter out of the crosswalk while they ran the red light? I’m not talking about technical violations that may have resulted from inattention, which, while extremely dangerous, is not the same as wanton and willful lawbreaking. The problem with too many cyclists is that they expect everyone to adjust to their presence regardless of what the law is. That tendency is worse when they’re in protected bike lanes because they don’t have to worry about cars.

If I’m walking in a crosswalk, having already established a lawful presence there, stop for me. It’s the law and it’s also common courtesy.

Yes, it is. It's the law. Which is routinely broken by drivers of cars, with or without bike lanes, and when drivers do it, they can seriously injure or kill you. But sure, let's focus on bike lanes.

The more people bike instead of drive, the safer you as a pedestrian will be.

You never acknowledge that you have any responsibility for the safety of others as a cyclist, so your argument that I'll be safer with more bike lanes falls flat. That's the problem. Too many cyclists fail to take responsibility for anyone else's safety, even that of other cyclists. I'm pretty sure getting hit by a cyclist on an e-bike or regular bike at 20 mph, which is faster than cars usually go at this intersection because of the congestion, would result in some broken ribs at the least.

A regular bike at 20 mph on a bike lane in your mysterious unnamed intersection in DC? Where is that mysterious unnamed intersection, by the way?

It’s on a downhill. It’s an easy 20. You still keep deflecting instead of acknowledging how your own conduct can put other people at risk.

I’ve seen cyclists go faster than that on sidewalks. I was driving down one of those streets named after a state, going maybe 25mph, and was passed by a bike on the sidewalk

Faster than 25 mph, on a bike, on the sidewalk of a street in DC. You don't say.

People do some crazy shit

People also have no sense of speed. Unless you have Olympian-level strength, attaining - let alone maintaining - 25mph on level ground is very difficult and especially so on a confined space such as a sidewalk. 15mph is possible but that’s about it.

Nonetheless I’d be all for a law banning cycling on any and all sidewalks where there is an adjacent protected bike lane. That is entirely reasonable.

It’s not uncommon for runners to run five minute miles. That translates to 12 miles per hour. Someone on a bike could easily go twice that.

Why do you feel qualified to opine on that which you know very little. Here is a reference that may prove educative for you: https://www.bikelockwiki.com/average-cycling-speed/

20 mph (PP's estimate) is right in the middle of the average for an advanced cyclist and on a downhill they could easily get to 24 mph (the average top-end speed for an advanced cyclist). Thanks for the link.

It's good to hear that DC's sidewalks are in such an outstanding, smooth, unblocked, non-bumpy condition that athletes can reach Tour de France speeds on them.

PP wasn't talking about a sidewalk. PP was talking about a protected bike lane on a downhill stretch. Just keep deflecting.

Huh?

“I’ve seen cyclists go faster than that on sidewalks. I was driving down one of those streets named after a state, going maybe 25mph, and was passed by a bike on the sidewalk”

No cyclist are doing those speeds on a sidewalk. It’s patently absurd. To assert such only shows you no nothing about speed nor cycling.

The discussion about speed started with this: "I'm pretty sure getting hit by a cyclist on an e-bike or regular bike at 20 mph, which is faster than cars usually go at this intersection because of the congestion, would result in some broken ribs at the least." One of the bike trolls claimed no one rode 20 mph in a bike lane, which prompted the dubious claim of 25 mph on a sidewalk.

20 mph downhill on the road or a bike lane is certainly possible. But any cyclist who routinely runs red lights or stop signs at 20 mph is not someone who is going to be around long enough for you to worry much about.

Don’t you understand? Nothing is ever a cyclist’s fault. If a cyclist ran a stop sign at 30 mph and got hit by a car and died, it would be the driver’s fault regardless of the details of what actually happened.

How cute. But no. The DC cyclist who ran a red light and knocked into a woman who later died was ticketed for disobeying a traffic signal and was subsequently sued into bankruptcy. The cyclist who got into a drunken altercation with a driver and ended up hitting him with his bike lock was convicted of a hate crime and sentenced to 5 years in prison. Meanwhile, we’re still waiting for the drivers who killed two cyclists at Hains Point and a pedestrian in Adam’s Morgan - to name but two - to face any measure of justice. So the facts demonstrably do not fit your ridiculous assertion.

Cyclists should have to carry liability insurance. If you sue someone and they declare bankruptcy, that means you’re getting jack. We don’t do this with drivers. They have to carry liability insurance. There should be the same standard for cyclists.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really appreciated the guy going 20mph on his e-bike in the bike lanes ringing his bell as he ran the red light so the pedestrians had a chance to scatter before he went through the crosswalk. All the cars at the intersection were stopped, by the way.

Wow. I also saw many cars speeding and couple running red lights yesterday. Shall we all chip in with our observations of bad behavior by road users in Washington, DC. What great fun that would be.

How many of those cars honked their horns to make pedestrians scatter out of the crosswalk while they ran the red light? I’m not talking about technical violations that may have resulted from inattention, which, while extremely dangerous, is not the same as wanton and willful lawbreaking. The problem with too many cyclists is that they expect everyone to adjust to their presence regardless of what the law is. That tendency is worse when they’re in protected bike lanes because they don’t have to worry about cars.

If I’m walking in a crosswalk, having already established a lawful presence there, stop for me. It’s the law and it’s also common courtesy.

Yes, it is. It's the law. Which is routinely broken by drivers of cars, with or without bike lanes, and when drivers do it, they can seriously injure or kill you. But sure, let's focus on bike lanes.

The more people bike instead of drive, the safer you as a pedestrian will be.

You never acknowledge that you have any responsibility for the safety of others as a cyclist, so your argument that I'll be safer with more bike lanes falls flat. That's the problem. Too many cyclists fail to take responsibility for anyone else's safety, even that of other cyclists. I'm pretty sure getting hit by a cyclist on an e-bike or regular bike at 20 mph, which is faster than cars usually go at this intersection because of the congestion, would result in some broken ribs at the least.

A regular bike at 20 mph on a bike lane in your mysterious unnamed intersection in DC? Where is that mysterious unnamed intersection, by the way?

It’s on a downhill. It’s an easy 20. You still keep deflecting instead of acknowledging how your own conduct can put other people at risk.

I’ve seen cyclists go faster than that on sidewalks. I was driving down one of those streets named after a state, going maybe 25mph, and was passed by a bike on the sidewalk

Faster than 25 mph, on a bike, on the sidewalk of a street in DC. You don't say.

People do some crazy shit

People also have no sense of speed. Unless you have Olympian-level strength, attaining - let alone maintaining - 25mph on level ground is very difficult and especially so on a confined space such as a sidewalk. 15mph is possible but that’s about it.

Nonetheless I’d be all for a law banning cycling on any and all sidewalks where there is an adjacent protected bike lane. That is entirely reasonable.

It’s not uncommon for runners to run five minute miles. That translates to 12 miles per hour. Someone on a bike could easily go twice that.

Why do you feel qualified to opine on that which you know very little. Here is a reference that may prove educative for you: https://www.bikelockwiki.com/average-cycling-speed/

20 mph (PP's estimate) is right in the middle of the average for an advanced cyclist and on a downhill they could easily get to 24 mph (the average top-end speed for an advanced cyclist). Thanks for the link.

It's good to hear that DC's sidewalks are in such an outstanding, smooth, unblocked, non-bumpy condition that athletes can reach Tour de France speeds on them.

PP wasn't talking about a sidewalk. PP was talking about a protected bike lane on a downhill stretch. Just keep deflecting.

Huh?

“I’ve seen cyclists go faster than that on sidewalks. I was driving down one of those streets named after a state, going maybe 25mph, and was passed by a bike on the sidewalk”

No cyclist are doing those speeds on a sidewalk. It’s patently absurd. To assert such only shows you no nothing about speed nor cycling.

The discussion about speed started with this: "I'm pretty sure getting hit by a cyclist on an e-bike or regular bike at 20 mph, which is faster than cars usually go at this intersection because of the congestion, would result in some broken ribs at the least." One of the bike trolls claimed no one rode 20 mph in a bike lane, which prompted the dubious claim of 25 mph on a sidewalk.

20 mph downhill on the road or a bike lane is certainly possible. But any cyclist who routinely runs red lights or stop signs at 20 mph is not someone who is going to be around long enough for you to worry much about.

Don’t you understand? Nothing is ever a cyclist’s fault. If a cyclist ran a stop sign at 30 mph and got hit by a car and died, it would be the driver’s fault regardless of the details of what actually happened.

This thread notwithstanding, the number of cyclists in DC who are killed by drivers is pretty close to the number of cyclists who are eaten by bears.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really appreciated the guy going 20mph on his e-bike in the bike lanes ringing his bell as he ran the red light so the pedestrians had a chance to scatter before he went through the crosswalk. All the cars at the intersection were stopped, by the way.

Wow. I also saw many cars speeding and couple running red lights yesterday. Shall we all chip in with our observations of bad behavior by road users in Washington, DC. What great fun that would be.

How many of those cars honked their horns to make pedestrians scatter out of the crosswalk while they ran the red light? I’m not talking about technical violations that may have resulted from inattention, which, while extremely dangerous, is not the same as wanton and willful lawbreaking. The problem with too many cyclists is that they expect everyone to adjust to their presence regardless of what the law is. That tendency is worse when they’re in protected bike lanes because they don’t have to worry about cars.

If I’m walking in a crosswalk, having already established a lawful presence there, stop for me. It’s the law and it’s also common courtesy.

Yes, it is. It's the law. Which is routinely broken by drivers of cars, with or without bike lanes, and when drivers do it, they can seriously injure or kill you. But sure, let's focus on bike lanes.

The more people bike instead of drive, the safer you as a pedestrian will be.

You never acknowledge that you have any responsibility for the safety of others as a cyclist, so your argument that I'll be safer with more bike lanes falls flat. That's the problem. Too many cyclists fail to take responsibility for anyone else's safety, even that of other cyclists. I'm pretty sure getting hit by a cyclist on an e-bike or regular bike at 20 mph, which is faster than cars usually go at this intersection because of the congestion, would result in some broken ribs at the least.

A regular bike at 20 mph on a bike lane in your mysterious unnamed intersection in DC? Where is that mysterious unnamed intersection, by the way?

It’s on a downhill. It’s an easy 20. You still keep deflecting instead of acknowledging how your own conduct can put other people at risk.

I’ve seen cyclists go faster than that on sidewalks. I was driving down one of those streets named after a state, going maybe 25mph, and was passed by a bike on the sidewalk

Faster than 25 mph, on a bike, on the sidewalk of a street in DC. You don't say.

People do some crazy shit

People also have no sense of speed. Unless you have Olympian-level strength, attaining - let alone maintaining - 25mph on level ground is very difficult and especially so on a confined space such as a sidewalk. 15mph is possible but that’s about it.

Nonetheless I’d be all for a law banning cycling on any and all sidewalks where there is an adjacent protected bike lane. That is entirely reasonable.

It’s not uncommon for runners to run five minute miles. That translates to 12 miles per hour. Someone on a bike could easily go twice that.

Why do you feel qualified to opine on that which you know very little. Here is a reference that may prove educative for you: https://www.bikelockwiki.com/average-cycling-speed/

20 mph (PP's estimate) is right in the middle of the average for an advanced cyclist and on a downhill they could easily get to 24 mph (the average top-end speed for an advanced cyclist). Thanks for the link.

It's good to hear that DC's sidewalks are in such an outstanding, smooth, unblocked, non-bumpy condition that athletes can reach Tour de France speeds on them.

PP wasn't talking about a sidewalk. PP was talking about a protected bike lane on a downhill stretch. Just keep deflecting.

Huh?

“I’ve seen cyclists go faster than that on sidewalks. I was driving down one of those streets named after a state, going maybe 25mph, and was passed by a bike on the sidewalk”

No cyclist are doing those speeds on a sidewalk. It’s patently absurd. To assert such only shows you no nothing about speed nor cycling.

The discussion about speed started with this: "I'm pretty sure getting hit by a cyclist on an e-bike or regular bike at 20 mph, which is faster than cars usually go at this intersection because of the congestion, would result in some broken ribs at the least." One of the bike trolls claimed no one rode 20 mph in a bike lane, which prompted the dubious claim of 25 mph on a sidewalk.

20 mph downhill on the road or a bike lane is certainly possible. But any cyclist who routinely runs red lights or stop signs at 20 mph is not someone who is going to be around long enough for you to worry much about.

Don’t you understand? Nothing is ever a cyclist’s fault. If a cyclist ran a stop sign at 30 mph and got hit by a car and died, it would be the driver’s fault regardless of the details of what actually happened.

This thread notwithstanding, the number of cyclists in DC who are killed by drivers is pretty close to the number of cyclists who are eaten by bears.

Yeah, you keep saying that, and every time you say it, it makes you sound worse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really appreciated the guy going 20mph on his e-bike in the bike lanes ringing his bell as he ran the red light so the pedestrians had a chance to scatter before he went through the crosswalk. All the cars at the intersection were stopped, by the way.

Wow. I also saw many cars speeding and couple running red lights yesterday. Shall we all chip in with our observations of bad behavior by road users in Washington, DC. What great fun that would be.

How many of those cars honked their horns to make pedestrians scatter out of the crosswalk while they ran the red light? I’m not talking about technical violations that may have resulted from inattention, which, while extremely dangerous, is not the same as wanton and willful lawbreaking. The problem with too many cyclists is that they expect everyone to adjust to their presence regardless of what the law is. That tendency is worse when they’re in protected bike lanes because they don’t have to worry about cars.

If I’m walking in a crosswalk, having already established a lawful presence there, stop for me. It’s the law and it’s also common courtesy.

Yes, it is. It's the law. Which is routinely broken by drivers of cars, with or without bike lanes, and when drivers do it, they can seriously injure or kill you. But sure, let's focus on bike lanes.

The more people bike instead of drive, the safer you as a pedestrian will be.

You never acknowledge that you have any responsibility for the safety of others as a cyclist, so your argument that I'll be safer with more bike lanes falls flat. That's the problem. Too many cyclists fail to take responsibility for anyone else's safety, even that of other cyclists. I'm pretty sure getting hit by a cyclist on an e-bike or regular bike at 20 mph, which is faster than cars usually go at this intersection because of the congestion, would result in some broken ribs at the least.

A regular bike at 20 mph on a bike lane in your mysterious unnamed intersection in DC? Where is that mysterious unnamed intersection, by the way?

It’s on a downhill. It’s an easy 20. You still keep deflecting instead of acknowledging how your own conduct can put other people at risk.

I’ve seen cyclists go faster than that on sidewalks. I was driving down one of those streets named after a state, going maybe 25mph, and was passed by a bike on the sidewalk

Faster than 25 mph, on a bike, on the sidewalk of a street in DC. You don't say.

People do some crazy shit

People also have no sense of speed. Unless you have Olympian-level strength, attaining - let alone maintaining - 25mph on level ground is very difficult and especially so on a confined space such as a sidewalk. 15mph is possible but that’s about it.

Nonetheless I’d be all for a law banning cycling on any and all sidewalks where there is an adjacent protected bike lane. That is entirely reasonable.

It’s not uncommon for runners to run five minute miles. That translates to 12 miles per hour. Someone on a bike could easily go twice that.

Why do you feel qualified to opine on that which you know very little. Here is a reference that may prove educative for you: https://www.bikelockwiki.com/average-cycling-speed/

20 mph (PP's estimate) is right in the middle of the average for an advanced cyclist and on a downhill they could easily get to 24 mph (the average top-end speed for an advanced cyclist). Thanks for the link.

It's good to hear that DC's sidewalks are in such an outstanding, smooth, unblocked, non-bumpy condition that athletes can reach Tour de France speeds on them.

PP wasn't talking about a sidewalk. PP was talking about a protected bike lane on a downhill stretch. Just keep deflecting.

Huh?

“I’ve seen cyclists go faster than that on sidewalks. I was driving down one of those streets named after a state, going maybe 25mph, and was passed by a bike on the sidewalk”

No cyclist are doing those speeds on a sidewalk. It’s patently absurd. To assert such only shows you no nothing about speed nor cycling.

The discussion about speed started with this: "I'm pretty sure getting hit by a cyclist on an e-bike or regular bike at 20 mph, which is faster than cars usually go at this intersection because of the congestion, would result in some broken ribs at the least." One of the bike trolls claimed no one rode 20 mph in a bike lane, which prompted the dubious claim of 25 mph on a sidewalk.

20 mph downhill on the road or a bike lane is certainly possible. But any cyclist who routinely runs red lights or stop signs at 20 mph is not someone who is going to be around long enough for you to worry much about.

Don’t you understand? Nothing is ever a cyclist’s fault. If a cyclist ran a stop sign at 30 mph and got hit by a car and died, it would be the driver’s fault regardless of the details of what actually happened.

How cute. But no. The DC cyclist who ran a red light and knocked into a woman who later died was ticketed for disobeying a traffic signal and was subsequently sued into bankruptcy. The cyclist who got into a drunken altercation with a driver and ended up hitting him with his bike lock was convicted of a hate crime and sentenced to 5 years in prison. Meanwhile, we’re still waiting for the drivers who killed two cyclists at Hains Point and a pedestrian in Adam’s Morgan - to name but two - to face any measure of justice. So the facts demonstrably do not fit your ridiculous assertion.

The Hains Point victims were pedestrians who drove there and the accident was caused by a lot of things, including bicyclists biking in the road instead of the bike path.

They were indeed pedestrians and, after nearly two years, it seems that the driver who killed them was charged with negligent homicide (https://dcist.com/story/23/02/01/driver-charged-pedestrian-deaths-hains-point/). Even then you find a way to absolve the driver of responsibility and blame their deaths on phantom cyclists. What a sick soul you are.