dont be in the 60th to 99th percentile in income

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is good. The middle class owes it to the lower class to join together to overthrow the aristocrats.

Don't let the aristocrats trick you into redirecting the class war to middle-vs-lower.

I don't owe anything to the lower class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is an interesting article by the New York Times https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2023/07/24/upshot/ivy-league-elite-college-admissions.html

Look at the graph. Small preference for the poor, large preference for the 0.1%. At the cost of the 60th to 99th percentile.

that's you DCUM.

Also don't save or invest money. Try to spend and live lavishly.

Why? Income is the primary factor in determining college financial aid. All retirement and home assets are typically not considered, and the rest of assets are assessed at 5-6%.

Because 75% of Americans apparently feel entitled to live a lifestyle better than what they can afford. They do not understand how to live within their means. I see it with friends and family. My kids did not have their own phone until MS and even then the first one was an old flip phone---my oldest's request was one with a full keyboard so they didn't have to hit aaa to type C.
Meanwhile their younger cousins already had Smartphones and would consistently get new ones every 1-2 years. They got the latest/greatest technology no matter what the cost. If you apply that to all aspects of life, many cannot really afford to do that and should have been saving that money (in this case, yes that family should have been saving---parent is now 68, retired, still living above their means and literally 100Ks in debt yet still living in the fanciest, most expensive place because they "deserve it"/"you only live once" despite the fact they cannot pay their bills....and this is someone who was once worth $10M+, they just blew it all to keep up with their friends/neighbors.

It's not the cost of phone plans that's killing the middle class.

It is first and foremost housing, and it's not optional to buy a place that allows you to avoid the dysfunctional poor.

And the reason people will pay a lot for education is so that their kids can afford to live somewhere where they avoid the dysfunctional poor.

Probably the most avoidable middle class expense is transportation. Buying "too much car" and getting a new car every five years rather than buying a basic vehicle and driving it into the ground.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So what. This isn’t news.

Where have you been hiding if you are surprised by this?

At work (too busy working to earn enough to pay for private high school tuition).

But, come on 60/99% you don’t get aid and can’t demonstrate “need”..

At $150k HHI in the DMV, $85k/year is a major sting!!! If you were in lower bracket, the kid would go for free. There is your answer—that percentile will go broke paying for it and not get $$ from the large endowments at these schools.

At 150K HHI you will get decent aid at private schools. That is my HHI and my kid received over 50% off 80K tuition. Some merit but mostly "grants". ~40K is still a lot of money for us but the net price is no more expensive than the state flagship.

DIng, ding, ding!!! And if you step down another tier (based on your kid's stats) you could likely find even more merit bringing costs down to $25K or less. When people say "college is not affordable" they are often only looking at the elite schools who don't give merit. Step down and your smart kid can attend for reasonable costs. You just have to decide if it's worth $200-300K in debt or not to attend an elite school. Personally, If you are that smart, it seems obvious you would choose the affordable choice

uh.. ok, but if the kid goes to private school from k-12, then college, that's 17 years of $25K or less per year. That amounts to 325,000 just for k-12, and then another 100,000 for college. Total $425K. That's a lot for $150K HHI. And that's just one kid.

our HHI is about $300K, and that's crazy to me. I wouldn't pay $80K/year for college, either. DC is going to a state flagship with merit, thank goodness.

And why would you pay $25K/year for K-12 if you cannot afford it easily? People with $150K HHI really cannot afford private K-12. If they choose to do that, then they are not being financially smart. Do what the majority of people do---use their public school system.

Choices----it is all about choices. If you choose to waste money that you do not have, then you have to pay the consequences of paying it all back. You don't get to spend more than you can afford. Private schools are a WANT not a need.

My kids attended private colleges, because we had saved enough for them to do so. They wanted smaller (5-6K undergrads) schools and what those offer. Without even chasing merit, my so-so kid (26 ACT, 3.5UW) got 35-60% merit offers from 5+ good schools (ranked 65-120), with the 60% coming from the one closer to 120. My kid attended a school ranked in the 80s, with an all in cost of $60-65K for only $40K per year. And they had 5 choices of schools that were like this. Had we been chasing merit, they could have stepped down another level and found a place that would offer 75% merit+.
Now imagine what your 1500+/3.9+UW student could get at those schools. My 2nd had offer from a T50 with over 60% of tuition merit offer. Could have attended a T50 school for ~50% off the total $80k/Year cost. Had several other good merit offers as well. And we were not chasing merit---we can easily pay full pay so that was not our focus. But had it been, my excellent student could be attending college for very low costs. At our state schools, that kid got in and would have only paid $15-20K/year total at several of the schools, including the T50 ranked state flagship.
It is smart to not overpay for college---if it's not already saved and isn't easy for you to pay, find a solution that is cost effective. Where you get the degree does not matter, it's getting the degree from a decent school that matters (and anything in the T150 is decent---it matters more what your kid does while at school)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is an interesting article by the New York Times https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2023/07/24/upshot/ivy-league-elite-college-admissions.html

Look at the graph. Small preference for the poor, large preference for the 0.1%. At the cost of the 60th to 99th percentile.

that's you DCUM.

Also don't save or invest money. Try to spend and live lavishly.

Why? Income is the primary factor in determining college financial aid. All retirement and home assets are typically not considered, and the rest of assets are assessed at 5-6%.

Because 75% of Americans apparently feel entitled to live a lifestyle better than what they can afford. They do not understand how to live within their means. I see it with friends and family. My kids did not have their own phone until MS and even then the first one was an old flip phone---my oldest's request was one with a full keyboard so they didn't have to hit aaa to type C.
Meanwhile their younger cousins already had Smartphones and would consistently get new ones every 1-2 years. They got the latest/greatest technology no matter what the cost. If you apply that to all aspects of life, many cannot really afford to do that and should have been saving that money (in this case, yes that family should have been saving---parent is now 68, retired, still living above their means and literally 100Ks in debt yet still living in the fanciest, most expensive place because they "deserve it"/"you only live once" despite the fact they cannot pay their bills....and this is someone who was once worth $10M+, they just blew it all to keep up with their friends/neighbors.

It's not the cost of phone plans that's killing the middle class.

It is first and foremost housing, and it's not optional to buy a place that allows you to avoid the dysfunctional poor.

And the reason people will pay a lot for education is so that their kids can afford to live somewhere where they avoid the dysfunctional poor.

Probably the most avoidable middle class expense is transportation. Buying "too much car" and getting a new car every five years rather than buying a basic vehicle and driving it into the ground.

It's the mentality that your 10 yo needs the newest, best smart phone each year that gets people into trouble. That extends to the I deserve a fancy car, to go out to dinner X times per week, and to habits of overspending. And those kids grow up to not understand the difference between wants and needs. So they continue to overspend rather than paying down their student loans quickly.

Same applies to college---thinking you Need a school you cannot afford instead of finding one you can afford.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is an interesting article by the New York Times https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2023/07/24/upshot/ivy-league-elite-college-admissions.html

Look at the graph. Small preference for the poor, large preference for the 0.1%. At the cost of the 60th to 99th percentile.

that's you DCUM.

Also don't save or invest money. Try to spend and live lavishly.

Why? Income is the primary factor in determining college financial aid. All retirement and home assets are typically not considered, and the rest of assets are assessed at 5-6%.

Because 75% of Americans apparently feel entitled to live a lifestyle better than what they can afford. They do not understand how to live within their means. I see it with friends and family. My kids did not have their own phone until MS and even then the first one was an old flip phone---my oldest's request was one with a full keyboard so they didn't have to hit aaa to type C.
Meanwhile their younger cousins already had Smartphones and would consistently get new ones every 1-2 years. They got the latest/greatest technology no matter what the cost. If you apply that to all aspects of life, many cannot really afford to do that and should have been saving that money (in this case, yes that family should have been saving---parent is now 68, retired, still living above their means and literally 100Ks in debt yet still living in the fanciest, most expensive place because they "deserve it"/"you only live once" despite the fact they cannot pay their bills....and this is someone who was once worth $10M+, they just blew it all to keep up with their friends/neighbors.

It's not the cost of phone plans that's killing the middle class.

It is first and foremost housing, and it's not optional to buy a place that allows you to avoid the dysfunctional poor.

And the reason people will pay a lot for education is so that their kids can afford to live somewhere where they avoid the dysfunctional poor.

Probably the most avoidable middle class expense is transportation. Buying "too much car" and getting a new car every five years rather than buying a basic vehicle and driving it into the ground.

It's the mentality that your 10 yo needs the newest, best smart phone each year that gets people into trouble. That extends to the I deserve a fancy car, to go out to dinner X times per week, and to habits of overspending. And those kids grow up to not understand the difference between wants and needs. So they continue to overspend rather than paying down their student loans quickly.

Same applies to college---thinking you Need a school you cannot afford instead of finding one you can afford.

That sounds nice because it makes everything a personal responsibility issue. It also completely ignores housing inflation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is an interesting article by the New York Times https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2023/07/24/upshot/ivy-league-elite-college-admissions.html

Look at the graph. Small preference for the poor, large preference for the 0.1%. At the cost of the 60th to 99th percentile.

that's you DCUM.

Also don't save or invest money. Try to spend and live lavishly.

Why? Income is the primary factor in determining college financial aid. All retirement and home assets are typically not considered, and the rest of assets are assessed at 5-6%.

Because 75% of Americans apparently feel entitled to live a lifestyle better than what they can afford. They do not understand how to live within their means. I see it with friends and family. My kids did not have their own phone until MS and even then the first one was an old flip phone---my oldest's request was one with a full keyboard so they didn't have to hit aaa to type C.
Meanwhile their younger cousins already had Smartphones and would consistently get new ones every 1-2 years. They got the latest/greatest technology no matter what the cost. If you apply that to all aspects of life, many cannot really afford to do that and should have been saving that money (in this case, yes that family should have been saving---parent is now 68, retired, still living above their means and literally 100Ks in debt yet still living in the fanciest, most expensive place because they "deserve it"/"you only live once" despite the fact they cannot pay their bills....and this is someone who was once worth $10M+, they just blew it all to keep up with their friends/neighbors.

It's not the cost of phone plans that's killing the middle class.

It is first and foremost housing, and it's not optional to buy a place that allows you to avoid the dysfunctional poor.

And the reason people will pay a lot for education is so that their kids can afford to live somewhere where they avoid the dysfunctional poor.

Probably the most avoidable middle class expense is transportation. Buying "too much car" and getting a new car every five years rather than buying a basic vehicle and driving it into the ground.

Being poor in America is worse than in any other oecd country because America’s poor are uniquely deviant/dysfunctional.

That’s what wealth gets you in America — not the fancy trinkets but the ability to get away from others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is an interesting article by the New York Times https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2023/07/24/upshot/ivy-league-elite-college-admissions.html

Look at the graph. Small preference for the poor, large preference for the 0.1%. At the cost of the 60th to 99th percentile.

that's you DCUM.

Also don't save or invest money. Try to spend and live lavishly.

Why? Income is the primary factor in determining college financial aid. All retirement and home assets are typically not considered, and the rest of assets are assessed at 5-6%.

Because 75% of Americans apparently feel entitled to live a lifestyle better than what they can afford. They do not understand how to live within their means. I see it with friends and family. My kids did not have their own phone until MS and even then the first one was an old flip phone---my oldest's request was one with a full keyboard so they didn't have to hit aaa to type C.
Meanwhile their younger cousins already had Smartphones and would consistently get new ones every 1-2 years. They got the latest/greatest technology no matter what the cost. If you apply that to all aspects of life, many cannot really afford to do that and should have been saving that money (in this case, yes that family should have been saving---parent is now 68, retired, still living above their means and literally 100Ks in debt yet still living in the fanciest, most expensive place because they "deserve it"/"you only live once" despite the fact they cannot pay their bills....and this is someone who was once worth $10M+, they just blew it all to keep up with their friends/neighbors.

It's not the cost of phone plans that's killing the middle class.

It is first and foremost housing, and it's not optional to buy a place that allows you to avoid the dysfunctional poor.

And the reason people will pay a lot for education is so that their kids can afford to live somewhere where they avoid the dysfunctional poor.

Probably the most avoidable middle class expense is transportation. Buying "too much car" and getting a new car every five years rather than buying a basic vehicle and driving it into the ground.

It's the mentality that your 10 yo needs the newest, best smart phone each year that gets people into trouble. That extends to the I deserve a fancy car, to go out to dinner X times per week, and to habits of overspending. And those kids grow up to not understand the difference between wants and needs. So they continue to overspend rather than paying down their student loans quickly.

Same applies to college---thinking you Need a school you cannot afford instead of finding one you can afford.

That sounds nice because it makes everything a personal responsibility issue. It also completely ignores housing inflation.

But at least 50-60% of the people in "financial troubles" are there because of lack of personal responsibility---people think living on credit is the way to go and do not believe in living within a budget. Yes, there is housing inflation. But fact is, if you only make X you need to find a way to live within a budget. So yes, you buy a car and drive it until it's 10-12 years old. Most do NOT do that. I do---and I'm worth millions. Just cannot justify wasting money on a new car every 3-5 years.
And you rent/buy a home you can afford. It's ok to have your kids share a room, or for the guest room to also be one of your kid's rooms. Better to do that than have an extra $400-600/month housing payment for a larger home. And if needed, you get a 2nd part-time job in evenings/weekends if you want something more. I grew up poor---did not live in nice places, wore old, hand me down clothing, used my $50 xmas and birthday gifts to buy new clothing, as I didn't get money for it otherwise. I survived, I always had a roof over my head, but never brought friends to my house as it was way below the level of anything my friends lived in. But I'm thankful my parents did not try to live above what they could afford, as it means they had a good life and actually saved for their retirement---for them they had more than growing up so ti was decent.

[Anonymous]

Quit your current employment and take a shit job so you too can be one of those lucky ducks in the 59th percentile.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is good. The middle class owes it to the lower class to join together to overthrow the aristocrats.

Don't let the aristocrats trick you into redirecting the class war to middle-vs-lower.

I don't owe anything to the lower class.

I think maybe what this poster was getting at is that you are closer to their lower class than the elite class. Most people in DCUM are btw-no matter how much they earn or analyze what is MC vs. UMC, how to appear old money vs. new money. It's working class vs. the 1%.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So what. This isn’t news.

Where have you been hiding if you are surprised by this?

At work (too busy working to earn enough to pay for private high school tuition).

But, come on 60/99% you don’t get aid and can’t demonstrate “need”..

At $150k HHI in the DMV, $85k/year is a major sting!!! If you were in lower bracket, the kid would go for free. There is your answer—that percentile will go broke paying for it and not get $$ from the large endowments at these schools.

At 150K HHI you will get decent aid at private schools. That is my HHI and my kid received over 50% off 80K tuition. Some merit but mostly "grants". ~40K is still a lot of money for us but the net price is no more expensive than the state flagship.

DIng, ding, ding!!! And if you step down another tier (based on your kid's stats) you could likely find even more merit bringing costs down to $25K or less. When people say "college is not affordable" they are often only looking at the elite schools who don't give merit. Step down and your smart kid can attend for reasonable costs. You just have to decide if it's worth $200-300K in debt or not to attend an elite school. Personally, If you are that smart, it seems obvious you would choose the affordable choice

uh.. ok, but if the kid goes to private school from k-12, then college, that's 17 years of $25K or less per year. That amounts to 325,000 just for k-12, and then another 100,000 for college. Total $425K. That's a lot for $150K HHI. And that's just one kid.

our HHI is about $300K, and that's crazy to me. I wouldn't pay $80K/year for college, either. DC is going to a state flagship with merit, thank goodness.

And why would you pay $25K/year for K-12 if you cannot afford it easily? People with $150K HHI really cannot afford private K-12. If they choose to do that, then they are not being financially smart. Do what the majority of people do---use their public school system.

Choices----it is all about choices. If you choose to waste money that you do not have, then you have to pay the consequences of paying it all back. You don't get to spend more than you can afford. Private schools are a WANT not a need.

My kids attended private colleges, because we had saved enough for them to do so. They wanted smaller (5-6K undergrads) schools and what those offer. Without even chasing merit, my so-so kid (26 ACT, 3.5UW) got 35-60% merit offers from 5+ good schools (ranked 65-120), with the 60% coming from the one closer to 120. My kid attended a school ranked in the 80s, with an all in cost of $60-65K for only $40K per year. And they had 5 choices of schools that were like this. Had we been chasing merit, they could have stepped down another level and found a place that would offer 75% merit+.
Now imagine what your 1500+/3.9+UW student could get at those schools. My 2nd had offer from a T50 with over 60% of tuition merit offer. Could have attended a T50 school for ~50% off the total $80k/Year cost. Had several other good merit offers as well. And we were not chasing merit---we can easily pay full pay so that was not our focus. But had it been, my excellent student could be attending college for very low costs. At our state schools, that kid got in and would have only paid $15-20K/year total at several of the schools, including the T50 ranked state flagship.
It is smart to not overpay for college---if it's not already saved and isn't easy for you to pay, find a solution that is cost effective. Where you get the degree does not matter, it's getting the degree from a decent school that matters (and anything in the T150 is decent---it matters more what your kid does while at school)

You are grossly underestimating the price of private k-12. Our oldest, it started at or around $25K for preK. For our youngest, it is close to $60K for tenth and will no doubt be above that for 11th and 12th.