Just Abortion theory

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Scientifically speaking, humans go through many stages of development: fetal, newborn, toddlerhood, childhood, young adult, adult, senior. How can anyone dispute this? If you want to kill off people in a certain phase of development, you better have a much better argument than "mental health of the mother." The only possible rationale for abortion is that the fetus is residing within the mother while the human in other stages are outside of the mother. So that's why I posed the removal of fetus thought experiment. And all I heard was BS avoidance tactics. "You don't have a right to take my embryo!" Says who? You had a right to not create another human being, but you did and now that human should have some rights. While his rights might not trump the mothers, you don't have an absolute right to kill another human just for the sake of control (vs letting me or govt take it).

And it doesn't matter that third trimester terminations are rare. You all are arguing against any type of checks, only "my body my choice." So you better be ok with women terminating for unwanted gender (see China and East Asia), and down the road, height, eye color, skin pigment. Are you ok with that? If not, on what grounds would you object?

Anther woman's choices are NONE of my business. No, I have no objections. You've got some nerve.

Agree.

Plus third trimester abortions are extremely rare and almost always due to likely death of mother. This decision should be strictly between women and their doctors without pro-life zealots interfering .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Scientifically speaking, humans go through many stages of development: fetal, newborn, toddlerhood, childhood, young adult, adult, senior. How can anyone dispute this? If you want to kill off people in a certain phase of development, you better have a much better argument than "mental health of the mother." The only possible rationale for abortion is that the fetus is residing within the mother while the human in other stages are outside of the mother. So that's why I posed the removal of fetus thought experiment. And all I heard was BS avoidance tactics. "You don't have a right to take my embryo!" Says who? You had a right to not create another human being, but you did and now that human should have some rights. While his rights might not trump the mothers, you don't have an absolute right to kill another human just for the sake of control (vs letting me or govt take it).

And it doesn't matter that third trimester terminations are rare. You all are arguing against any type of checks, only "my body my choice." So you better be ok with women terminating for unwanted gender (see China and East Asia), and down the road, height, eye color, skin pigment. Are you ok with that? If not, on what grounds would you object?

Anther woman's choices are NONE of my business. No, I have no objections. You've got some nerve.

You’re a straight up advocate for killing babies. You should be ashamed of yourself and all your arguments are trash. Trash people kill babies. End of discussion.

DP -

Actually you should be ashamed of yourself - the vast majority of abortions are embryos not “babies”. Your arguments are reductionist simplistic and dogmatic. You are judgmental about women who need abortions for just reasons. Don’t you realize the majority of women who have abortions don’t take that decision lightly but weigh it up with medical advice?

You are either very young or not very bright.

Your extremist views thankfully are not held by the majority.

Getting on your high horse against abortion probably makes you feel morally superior in lazy ways when you do next to nothing to show respect and care for existing life.

[Anonymous]

https://www.kff.org/womens-health-policy/report/key-facts-on-abortion-in-the-united-states/#Who-gets-abortions

* More than half of abortions were among women of color. Black women comprised 39% of abortion recipients, 33% were provided to White women, 21% to Hispanic women, and 7% were among women of other races/ethnicities.
* Many women who seek abortions have children. Nearly six in 10 (61%) abortion patients in 2020 had at least one previous birth.

The vast majority (92%) of abortions occur during the first trimester of pregnancy according to data available from before the Dobbs decision.

Before the 2022 ruling in Dobbs, there was a federal constitutional right to abortion before the pregnancy is considered to be viable, that is, can survive outside of a pregnant person’s uterus. Viability is generally considered around 24 weeks of pregnancy. Most abortions, though, occur well before the point of fetal viability.
* Four in ten (40%) abortions occur by six weeks of gestation, another four in ten (39%) are between seven and nine weeks, and 13% at 10-13 weeks. Just 8% of abortions occur after the first trimester.
* Prior to the decision in the Dobbs case, almost half of states (22) had enacted laws that ban abortion at a certain gestational age. Most of these limits are in the second trimester, but some are in the first trimester, well before fetal viability.


https://prochoice.org/wp-content/uploads/women_who_have_abortions.pdf

Age
Women between the ages of 15 and 19 account for about 19% of all abortions; women 20 to 24 account for another 33%; and about 25% of abortions are obtained by women who are 30 or older4. Calculating abortion rates, older teenagers and young adults have the highest abortion rates, while women younger than 15 and older than 35 have the lowest.

MYTH: Women have abortions for selfish or frivolous reasons.

The decision to have an abortion is rarely simple. Most women base their decision on several factors, the most common being lack of money and/or unreadiness to start or expand their families due to existing responsibilities. Many feel that the most responsible course of action is to wait until their situation is more suited to childrearing; 66% plan to have children when they are older, financially able to provide necessities for them, and/or in a supportive relationship with a partner so their children will have two parents8. Others wanted to get pregnant but developed serious medical problems, learned that the fetus had severe abnormalities, or experienced some other personal crisis. About 13,000 women each year have abortions because they have become pregnant as a result of rape or incest1.

MYTH: Women are often forced into having abortions they do not really want.

Some women say that pressure from a husband, partner, or parent was one of several reasons they chose abortion, but only about 1% give that reason as the "most important" one in making their decision9. Conversely, some women who do not want to continue their pregnancies are pressured to do so by family members, friends, or fear of social stigma. Pre- abortion options counseling is designed to determine whether a woman is fully comfortable with her abortion decision, and if she is not, she is encouraged to wait until she has had a chance to consider her options more fully.

MYTH: Many women come to regret their abortions later.

Research indicates that relief is the most common emotional response following abortion, and that psychological distress appears to be greatest before, rather than after, an abortion.
There are undoubtedly some women who, in hindsight, wish that they had made different choices, and the majority would prefer never to have become pregnant when the circumstances were not right for them. When a wanted pregnancy is ended (for medical reasons, for example) women may experience a sense of loss and grief. As with any major change or decision involving loss, a crisis later in life sometimes leads to a temporary resurfacing of sad feelings surrounding the abortion.

MYTH: Women are using abortion as a method of birth control.

In fact, half of all women getting abortions report that contraception was used during the month they became pregnant1. Some of these couples had used the method improperly; some had forgotten or neglected to use it on the particular occasion they conceived; and some had used a contraceptive that failed. No contraceptive method prevents pregnancy 100% of the time.

[Anonymous]

Xwhat if it’s a priest’s child? See Baltimore child rape scandal, hundreds abused by pedophile priests. Shame on the Church. How does this not undermine all of it moral authority?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Xwhat if it’s a priest’s child? See Baltimore child rape scandal, hundreds abused by pedophile priests. Shame on the Church. How does this not undermine all of it moral authority?

There are other threads on the child abuse scandal.

Obviously abortion of child conceived by rapist priests would be extremely just.
Most of the child victims were boys though. Perhaps if the Catholic Church did not suppress priestly sexuality by not allowing marriage and rejecting GTLBQ people, their priests would not have acted in such horrific ways.

So there is intersectionality in the between advocating for abortion rights and GLTBQ rights.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Xwhat if it’s a priest’s child? See Baltimore child rape scandal, hundreds abused by pedophile priests. Shame on the Church. How does this not undermine all of it moral authority?

Churches don't have no moral authority outside of their church.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Xwhat if it’s a priest’s child? See Baltimore child rape scandal, hundreds abused by pedophile priests. Shame on the Church. How does this not undermine all of it moral authority?

Churches don't have no moral authority outside of their church.

That may be so but Christian nationalists have outsize influence on GOP/ Supreme Court and conservative policies.

It is good to remind them that their favorite cause - taking away women’s reproductive rights is not shared by many mainstream Christians.

[Anonymous]

People who kill their own babies have mental issues; that’s why they try to make themselves feel better (as if) by creating threads about how abortion is “ok.” It’s not ok. It’s murder.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People who kill their own babies have mental issues; that’s why they try to make themselves feel better (as if) by creating threads about how abortion is “ok.” It’s not ok. It’s murder.

People who think that the value of a fetus is completely and totally equal to the value of a woman, have mental issues. Mommy issues, and a deep hatred for women. Their moral compass is abnormal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People who kill their own babies have mental issues; that’s why they try to make themselves feel better (as if) by creating threads about how abortion is “ok.” It’s not ok. It’s murder.

If you really think that then why do you want to force those women to become mothers?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Scientifically speaking, humans go through many stages of development: fetal, newborn, toddlerhood, childhood, young adult, adult, senior. How can anyone dispute this? If you want to kill off people in a certain phase of development, you better have a much better argument than "mental health of the mother." The only possible rationale for abortion is that the fetus is residing within the mother while the human in other stages are outside of the mother. So that's why I posed the removal of fetus thought experiment. And all I heard was BS avoidance tactics. "You don't have a right to take my embryo!" Says who? You had a right to not create another human being, but you did and now that human should have some rights. While his rights might not trump the mothers, you don't have an absolute right to kill another human just for the sake of control (vs letting me or govt take it).

And it doesn't matter that third trimester terminations are rare. You all are arguing against any type of checks, only "my body my choice." So you better be ok with women terminating for unwanted gender (see China and East Asia), and down the road, height, eye color, skin pigment. Are you ok with that? If not, on what grounds would you object?

Anther woman's choices are NONE of my business. No, I have no objections. You've got some nerve.

Agree.

Plus third trimester abortions are extremely rare and almost always due to likely death of mother. This decision should be strictly between women and their doctors without pro-life zealots interfering .

Murder should be a private matter between the killer and their victim, and the state should not interfere. Further, you don’t know all the reasons that the murderer felt the need to kill, so you shouldn’t judge. There is likely a really good reason. Finally, murder is quite rare—only about 30,000 per year in a country of more than 300 million—so people who want murderers punished are lying about their motivations, they really just want to control other people’s behavior for religious reasons.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People who kill their own babies have mental issues; that’s why they try to make themselves feel better (as if) by creating threads about how abortion is “ok.” It’s not ok. It’s murder.

If you really think that then why do you want to force those women to become mothers?

PP doesn't actually think this. They felt hurt/rejection by some woman in their lives (a love interest, their mother, a sister, etc) and thinks all women need to pay for the hurt they felt. They're just broken.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Scientifically speaking, humans go through many stages of development: fetal, newborn, toddlerhood, childhood, young adult, adult, senior. How can anyone dispute this? If you want to kill off people in a certain phase of development, you better have a much better argument than "mental health of the mother." The only possible rationale for abortion is that the fetus is residing within the mother while the human in other stages are outside of the mother. So that's why I posed the removal of fetus thought experiment. And all I heard was BS avoidance tactics. "You don't have a right to take my embryo!" Says who? You had a right to not create another human being, but you did and now that human should have some rights. While his rights might not trump the mothers, you don't have an absolute right to kill another human just for the sake of control (vs letting me or govt take it).

And it doesn't matter that third trimester terminations are rare. You all are arguing against any type of checks, only "my body my choice." So you better be ok with women terminating for unwanted gender (see China and East Asia), and down the road, height, eye color, skin pigment. Are you ok with that? If not, on what grounds would you object?

Anther woman's choices are NONE of my business. No, I have no objections. You've got some nerve.

Agree.

Plus third trimester abortions are extremely rare and almost always due to likely death of mother. This decision should be strictly between women and their doctors without pro-life zealots interfering .

Murder should be a private matter between the killer and their victim, and the state should not interfere. Further, you don’t know all the reasons that the murderer felt the need to kill, so you shouldn’t judge. There is likely a really good reason. Finally, murder is quite rare—only about 30,000 per year in a country of more than 300 million—so people who want murderers punished are lying about their motivations, they really just want to control other people’s behavior for religious reasons.

You are a tiresome judgmental no-nothing with no empathy or understanding for real women.

Embryos are not equal to live women. Real women sometimes need abortions for just reasons.

Keep telling yourself all these simplistic jingoisms with no medical basis so yiu can continue to feel morally superior while doing nothing for actual existing life.

Keep letting right wing extremists dominate political agendas with this wedge issue while ignoring issues that would actually help existing life - universal health care, gun controls, mitigating climate change and addressing the affordable housing crisis.

Keep acting morally superior while judging and ignoring the needs of existing women and their children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Scientifically speaking, humans go through many stages of development: fetal, newborn, toddlerhood, childhood, young adult, adult, senior. How can anyone dispute this? If you want to kill off people in a certain phase of development, you better have a much better argument than "mental health of the mother." The only possible rationale for abortion is that the fetus is residing within the mother while the human in other stages are outside of the mother. So that's why I posed the removal of fetus thought experiment. And all I heard was BS avoidance tactics. "You don't have a right to take my embryo!" Says who? You had a right to not create another human being, but you did and now that human should have some rights. While his rights might not trump the mothers, you don't have an absolute right to kill another human just for the sake of control (vs letting me or govt take it).

And it doesn't matter that third trimester terminations are rare. You all are arguing against any type of checks, only "my body my choice." So you better be ok with women terminating for unwanted gender (see China and East Asia), and down the road, height, eye color, skin pigment. Are you ok with that? If not, on what grounds would you object?

Anther woman's choices are NONE of my business. No, I have no objections. You've got some nerve.

Agree.

Plus third trimester abortions are extremely rare and almost always due to likely death of mother. This decision should be strictly between women and their doctors without pro-life zealots interfering .

Murder should be a private matter between the killer and their victim, and the state should not interfere. Further, you don’t know all the reasons that the murderer felt the need to kill, so you shouldn’t judge. There is likely a really good reason. Finally, murder is quite rare—only about 30,000 per year in a country of more than 300 million—so people who want murderers punished are lying about their motivations, they really just want to control other people’s behavior for religious reasons.

You are a tiresome judgmental no-nothing with no empathy or understanding for real women.

Embryos are not equal to live women. Real women sometimes need abortions for just reasons.

Keep telling yourself all these simplistic jingoisms with no medical basis so yiu can continue to feel morally superior while doing nothing for actual existing life.

Keep letting right wing extremists dominate political agendas with this wedge issue while ignoring issues that would actually help existing life - universal health care, gun controls, mitigating climate change and addressing the affordable housing crisis.

Keep acting morally superior while judging and ignoring the needs of existing women and their children.

That’s not true at all. I’m actually pro-choice, just sick of all these intellectually dishonest arguments suggesting that the pro-life movement is based on “the need to control women’s sexuality”, hurt feelings, or the desire to impose a right-wing theocracy when the simple, parsimonious, true answer is that it arises from a reasonable difference of opinion on when human life really begins. You can’t and won’t distinguish a 36-week abortion from infanticide, for example, you will just hand wave that question away.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Scientifically speaking, humans go through many stages of development: fetal, newborn, toddlerhood, childhood, young adult, adult, senior. How can anyone dispute this? If you want to kill off people in a certain phase of development, you better have a much better argument than "mental health of the mother." The only possible rationale for abortion is that the fetus is residing within the mother while the human in other stages are outside of the mother. So that's why I posed the removal of fetus thought experiment. And all I heard was BS avoidance tactics. "You don't have a right to take my embryo!" Says who? You had a right to not create another human being, but you did and now that human should have some rights. While his rights might not trump the mothers, you don't have an absolute right to kill another human just for the sake of control (vs letting me or govt take it).

And it doesn't matter that third trimester terminations are rare. You all are arguing against any type of checks, only "my body my choice." So you better be ok with women terminating for unwanted gender (see China and East Asia), and down the road, height, eye color, skin pigment. Are you ok with that? If not, on what grounds would you object?

Anther woman's choices are NONE of my business. No, I have no objections. You've got some nerve.

Agree.

Plus third trimester abortions are extremely rare and almost always due to likely death of mother. This decision should be strictly between women and their doctors without pro-life zealots interfering .

Murder should be a private matter between the killer and their victim, and the state should not interfere. Further, you don’t know all the reasons that the murderer felt the need to kill, so you shouldn’t judge. There is likely a really good reason. Finally, murder is quite rare—only about 30,000 per year in a country of more than 300 million—so people who want murderers punished are lying about their motivations, they really just want to control other people’s behavior for religious reasons.

You are a tiresome judgmental no-nothing with no empathy or understanding for real women.

Embryos are not equal to live women. Real women sometimes need abortions for just reasons.

Keep telling yourself all these simplistic jingoisms with no medical basis so yiu can continue to feel morally superior while doing nothing for actual existing life.

Keep letting right wing extremists dominate political agendas with this wedge issue while ignoring issues that would actually help existing life - universal health care, gun controls, mitigating climate change and addressing the affordable housing crisis.

Keep acting morally superior while judging and ignoring the needs of existing women and their children.

That’s not true at all. I’m actually pro-choice, just sick of all these intellectually dishonest arguments suggesting that the pro-life movement is based on “the need to control women’s sexuality”, hurt feelings, or the desire to impose a right-wing theocracy when the simple, parsimonious, true answer is that it arises from a reasonable difference of opinion on when human life really begins. You can’t and won’t distinguish a 36-week abortion from infanticide, for example, you will just hand wave that question away.

Who is being intellectually dishonest ?

The only women who get abortions that late have their lives greatly at risk. The majority of states outlawed third term abortions unless doctors verify that it is absolutely medically necessary to save life of mother, it is extremely rare.

The overwhelming majority of abortions are before 13 weeks when the life is an embryo not a fetus .