Just Abortion theory

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This absolutely exists in Judaism and Islam. I know there are Christian scholars who have looked into this kind of thing, but the extreme conservatism on abortion in Christianity seems to be mostly an evangelical and Catholic obsession.

I would argue that the reason most "pro-life" people have the attitude that they do, is because they simply don't trust women. A concern for "life" or "babies" is a facade, and so is using religion as a justification.

There's also an economical component to banning abortion, obviously.

I agree. It's about mistrust of women and a desire to control and punish them.

[Anonymous]

The religious nuts only care if there is a separation of church and state if it suits them, eg no right to life it impedes my right to own a gun, especially an AR-15. But, if you want an abortion, we are suddenly all over you and your uterus and what is going on with it, because God and all that, never mind body autonomy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This absolutely exists in Judaism and Islam. I know there are Christian scholars who have looked into this kind of thing, but the extreme conservatism on abortion in Christianity seems to be mostly an evangelical and Catholic obsession.

I would argue that the reason most "pro-life" people have the attitude that they do, is because they simply don't trust women. A concern for "life" or "babies" is a facade, and so is using religion as a justification.

There's also an economical component to banning abortion, obviously.

I agree. It's about mistrust of women and a desire to control and punish them.

OP - yes I agree also.

My Christian tradition allows women to be fully engaged in church life as ordained ministers and supports many human rights issues as a matter of faith and morality. I am aware that not all Christian traditions trust and respect women as leaders and as competent people.

The harms being done to so many women and girls via these anti abortion laws are horrific. Women and girls are dying giving birth at far higher rates in red states with antiabortion laws. Hospitals in many red states are closing their maternity units and services as the costs and risks are too high with all the political interference in medical decisions. Rates of child poverty are far higher in states with antiabortion laws.

However, I do know that many people of faith who are highly uncomfortable with abortion and feel it is a moral gray area from a faith perspective .

I think it would help to have clear theological articulation of when abortion is justified and moral.

This theory would not replace arguments for female human rights to determine what happens to their bodies and lives or medical approaches for when and how abortions should be carried out.

Just Abortion Theory could provide religious framework for understanding how abortion rights are morally necessary because often terminating pregnancies in safe medical ways is justified and the lesser of likely bad outcomes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What would you hope to achieve through this?

Misuse of my religion to further harm women and girls in unjust ways.

That’s exactly what’s been done with not allowing birth control and abortions. It’s not based in any religious teachings. It’s only meant to hurt women and children.

Remember to address the emotional toll abortion takes on the woman and family as well. Abortions aren’t just a one and done type thing for the majority of people. They can result in serious trauma to the mother, father, and even other children in the household. These emotions are often overlooked in the name of abortion rights, but the after effects can last a lifetime. No matter the reason you are still choosing to kill your own child, that’s enough to create some emotions and PTSD in even the strongest of women and families. If you’re presenting the argument on the basis of helping women then this shouldn’t be overlooked.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What would you hope to achieve through this?

Misuse of my religion to further harm women and girls in unjust ways.

That’s exactly what’s been done with not allowing birth control and abortions. It’s not based in any religious teachings. It’s only meant to hurt women and children.

Remember to address the emotional toll abortion takes on the woman and family as well. Abortions aren’t just a one and done type thing for the majority of people. They can result in serious trauma to the mother, father, and even other children in the household. These emotions are often overlooked in the name of abortion rights, but the after effects can last a lifetime. No matter the reason you are still choosing to kill your own child, that’s enough to create some emotions and PTSD in even the strongest of women and families. If you’re presenting the argument on the basis of helping women then this shouldn’t be overlooked.

OP - I agree that a thoughtful and nuanced approach would help in accounting for likely harms. Yes many women and their partners report feeling depressed and sad after getting abortions. I don’t think most women choose to have abortions lightly or as a form of contraception. It is just sometimes the lesser of likely bad outcomes.

As stated earlier, I do think for many moderate Christians, there are Moral concerns around abortion as well as abortion rights.

It will help to clarify why although abortion may not be ideal that it can often be just, moral and actually pro life when it strongly supports the health of mother and quality of life for existing children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This absolutely exists in Judaism and Islam. I know there are Christian scholars who have looked into this kind of thing, but the extreme conservatism on abortion in Christianity seems to be mostly an evangelical and Catholic obsession.

I would argue that the reason most "pro-life" people have the attitude that they do, is because they simply don't trust women. A concern for "life" or "babies" is a facade, and so is using religion as a justification.

There's also an economical component to banning abortion, obviously.

I agree. It's about mistrust of women and a desire to control and punish them.

OP - yes I agree also.

My Christian tradition allows women to be fully engaged in church life as ordained ministers and supports many human rights issues as a matter of faith and morality. I am aware that not all Christian traditions trust and respect women as leaders and as competent people.

The harms being done to so many women and girls via these anti abortion laws are horrific. Women and girls are dying giving birth at far higher rates in red states with antiabortion laws. Hospitals in many red states are closing their maternity units and services as the costs and risks are too high with all the political interference in medical decisions. Rates of child poverty are far higher in states with antiabortion laws.

However, I do know that many people of faith who are highly uncomfortable with abortion and feel it is a moral gray area from a faith perspective .

I think it would help to have clear theological articulation of when abortion is justified and moral.

This theory would not replace arguments for female human rights to determine what happens to their bodies and lives or medical approaches for when and how abortions should be carried out.

Just Abortion Theory could provide religious framework for understanding how abortion rights are morally necessary because often terminating pregnancies in safe medical ways is justified and the lesser of likely bad outcomes.

But when actually dissected, you'll find that the VAST majority of "pro-life" supporters do not support services and initiatives that reduce abortions and help women, children, and babies. These same people frequently do not support social services, universal health care, easily and freely accessible contraception, honest sex education, paid maternity leave, paying people living wages, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This absolutely exists in Judaism and Islam. I know there are Christian scholars who have looked into this kind of thing, but the extreme conservatism on abortion in Christianity seems to be mostly an evangelical and Catholic obsession.

I would argue that the reason most "pro-life" people have the attitude that they do, is because they simply don't trust women. A concern for "life" or "babies" is a facade, and so is using religion as a justification.

There's also an economical component to banning abortion, obviously.

I agree. It's about mistrust of women and a desire to control and punish them.

OP - yes I agree also.

My Christian tradition allows women to be fully engaged in church life as ordained ministers and supports many human rights issues as a matter of faith and morality. I am aware that not all Christian traditions trust and respect women as leaders and as competent people.

The harms being done to so many women and girls via these anti abortion laws are horrific. Women and girls are dying giving birth at far higher rates in red states with antiabortion laws. Hospitals in many red states are closing their maternity units and services as the costs and risks are too high with all the political interference in medical decisions. Rates of child poverty are far higher in states with antiabortion laws.

However, I do know that many people of faith who are highly uncomfortable with abortion and feel it is a moral gray area from a faith perspective .

I think it would help to have clear theological articulation of when abortion is justified and moral.

This theory would not replace arguments for female human rights to determine what happens to their bodies and lives or medical approaches for when and how abortions should be carried out.

Just Abortion Theory could provide religious framework for understanding how abortion rights are morally necessary because often terminating pregnancies in safe medical ways is justified and the lesser of likely bad outcomes.

But when actually dissected, you'll find that the VAST majority of "pro-life" supporters do not support services and initiatives that reduce abortions and help women, children, and babies. These same people frequently do not support social services, universal health care, easily and freely accessible contraception, honest sex education, paid maternity leave, paying people living wages, etc.

I am not sure that is true.

They are distinct issues. There will be overlap for sure: but they are not one and the same in every case. You are assuming that.

The core issue related to abortion rights is that women’s human rights are being eroded in the name of religious beliefs.

It is important for Christians who support women’s human rights and abortion rights to defend this from a moral faith perspective (relying on medicine and science to support claims of likely harms).

I am tired of right wingers misusing this as a wedge issue to sanctimoniously claim the moral high ground, which is not theirs to take.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What would you hope to achieve through this?

Misuse of my religion to further harm women and girls in unjust ways.

That’s exactly what’s been done with not allowing birth control and abortions. It’s not based in any religious teachings. It’s only meant to hurt women and children.

Remember to address the emotional toll abortion takes on the woman and family as well. Abortions aren’t just a one and done type thing for the majority of people. They can result in serious trauma to the mother, father, and even other children in the household. These emotions are often overlooked in the name of abortion rights, but the after effects can last a lifetime. No matter the reason you are still choosing to kill your own child, that’s enough to create some emotions and PTSD in even the strongest of women and families. If you’re presenting the argument on the basis of helping women then this shouldn’t be overlooked.

The research on this issue shows exactly the opposite of all this. Please take your propaganda elsewhere.

[Anonymous]

I don't know why so many pro-life people and pro-choice people argue over whether abortion is murder. There are a substantial number of people out here, like me, that think abortion is obviously murder and are still okay with it in this specific context.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What would you hope to achieve through this?

Misuse of my religion to further harm women and girls in unjust ways.

That’s exactly what’s been done with not allowing birth control and abortions. It’s not based in any religious teachings. It’s only meant to hurt women and children.

Remember to address the emotional toll abortion takes on the woman and family as well. Abortions aren’t just a one and done type thing for the majority of people. They can result in serious trauma to the mother, father, and even other children in the household. These emotions are often overlooked in the name of abortion rights, but the after effects can last a lifetime. No matter the reason you are still choosing to kill your own child, that’s enough to create some emotions and PTSD in even the strongest of women and families. If you’re presenting the argument on the basis of helping women then this shouldn’t be overlooked.

The research on this issue shows exactly the opposite of all this. Please take your propaganda elsewhere.

Plus, there are lots of things that take an emotional toll on families that are not forbidden by religion or law.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What would you hope to achieve through this?

Misuse of my religion to further harm women and girls in unjust ways.

That’s exactly what’s been done with not allowing birth control and abortions. It’s not based in any religious teachings. It’s only meant to hurt women and children.

Remember to address the emotional toll abortion takes on the woman and family as well. Abortions aren’t just a one and done type thing for the majority of people. They can result in serious trauma to the mother, father, and even other children in the household. These emotions are often overlooked in the name of abortion rights, but the after effects can last a lifetime. No matter the reason you are still choosing to kill your own child, that’s enough to create some emotions and PTSD in even the strongest of women and families. If you’re presenting the argument on the basis of helping women then this shouldn’t be overlooked.

The research on this issue shows exactly the opposite of all this. Please take your propaganda elsewhere.

I did not interpret pp as being combative or spreading propaganda in a close minded way.

Abortion does leave a lasting impact on many people.

I fully support abortion rights but agree with PP that decisions should not be taken lightly..

That is why good family Planning counseling services that help women to make the decisions best for them are important.

[Anonymous]

Let’s hope brilliant scholars Harvard or Yale divinity schools or any serious well regarded theological school take up working on Just Abortion Theory.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What would you hope to achieve through this?

To help zealots moderate their beliefs which result in political and legal persecution of women.

It's a good idea OP.

[Anonymous]

What simply not having money to provide for a child???

This is one of the main reasons that people get abortions. It’s why millennials aren’t getting married ad having planned children either. How do you reconcile lack of healthcare and financial stability in your just abortion theory?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What simply not having money to provide for a child???

This is one of the main reasons that people get abortions. It’s why millennials aren’t getting married ad having planned children either. How do you reconcile lack of healthcare and financial stability in your just abortion theory?

OP

I am proposing this theory but hope the right people with the right skill intellectual, practical and ethical skill sets take it up to refine.

I would think those considerations would fall under likely harms to mother, unborn child and any existing children.

Just War theory lays out criteria that make wars, which Christian’s should have a moral aversion to, just. Similarly, Just Abortion theory could take the position that although Christians may have a general aversion to abortion if it is not necessary, especially after 16 weeks or so, that there are criteria that make abortions morally justifiable. Some criteria are clear cut such as pregnancy threatening life of the mother, pregnancies resulting from rape or incest, young teens and children who become pregnant following sexually exploitation, life of baby unlikely to be viable after birth, and severe birth defects.

I would like to see any theologians who take up my concept of Just Abortion theory to factor in more subtle considerations that strongly affect quality of life such as the ones you mentioned. Some women can’t even afford to carry out pregnancies as it means they can’t feed their current children. I have met women who were successful businesswomen who became homeless during difficult pregnancies that required long bed rest. However, it is not black and white but important to factor in whether likely harms such as job loss, or loss of home, or lack of access to medical care in certain areas presenting extra layers of harms that may justify some abortions.

I would like to see Just Abortion theory addressing other aspects of being pro life to include supporting policies that support better quality of life for existing vulnerable people such as universal health care and better social safety nets for the poor.