If the IDF hurt one of my children, I regret to say that I'd probably do more than support Hamas. After the IDF has killed and mutilated, displaced, and starved so many Palestinians, I'm surprised that number is as low as 72%.
Yes. This. Israel’s outsized response is only servicing to make Jews less safe worldwide. If you think IDF’s response has been justified based on 1200 deaths and 250 kidnapped victims, just imagine what the Palestinians want to do to Israelis for 20x that amount of suffering.
Wow. What both of you numbskulls conveniently ignore is the FACT that Hamas brutally mutilated, tortured, raped, and murdered, children and other innocent civilians FIRST. Why is it so easy for you to totally twist this narrative? Do you know how insane you sound?
DP
It is a mistake to try to assign a “first” in this conflict. You are correct that Hamas carried out a brutal attack on October 7th, but they didn’t spring into existence on October 6th.
A very interesting article written by an Israeli author.
That's behind a firewall. At any rate, regardless of Jewish settlements, etc. - Israelis have NOT tortured and raped Palestinian women and children. Hamas are monsters. I hope they're eradicated from the face of the earth.
Just a reminder this is the statement categorically denying Israelis have tortured and raped Palestinian women which is precisely what the Israeli justice system says has taken place.
They’ve raped more Palestinian men than the women because they know men don’t ever speak out about such things
Cool story bro. Make wild accusations with no proof, and then give yourself fake cover by saying "you won't hear about it because it's suppressed / people are being bought off / they won't talk to it because of cultural issues" etc.
Here is a report about a 15 year old boy who was raped and was subjected to torture in the genitalia in 2021 by Israeli forces.
This incident has been mentioned in interviews by Josh Paul, who resigned from the US state department earlier this year.
Again for individual reports vs. mass rape event. This is equivalent to when Jeff said about Shani Louk “she had her underwear on”
Ok then say “Israel doesn’t carry out mass rape” and not “Israelis do NOT rape Palestinians”.
Don’t make verifiably false statements and then get defensive when someone tells you they’re false. And really if I were in your shoes I’d take a beat on making either of those claims because we don’t know the full scale of what’s happening right now, and you may find yourself re-defining your parameters for behavior yet again.
You are saying that possibly, Israeli soldiers are mass raping Palestinian women, cutting off breasts, and desecrating the bodies, ie parading their corpses through the streets of Tel Aviv while civilian Israelis are spitting on their dead flesh?
No? I am saying it’s possible there is a larger sexual violence issue with the IDF that we don’t yet know about (due to gag orders and also the lack of reporting from Gaza right now) and so I would continue to advise everyone not to make blanket statements about their behavior which are either verifiably false or have the potential to be proven false later. Stick with what is verifiably true.
The IDF are heroes, and if we had a reasonable leadership in this country people like you blatantly slandering such heroes would be arrested and tried for your crimes.
You believe that it should be a crime in the United States to post verified facts— published by the governments in question— about the conduct of foreign militaries?
They are NOT verified. They were part of a biased opinion piece as shown by the fact that the website has the word ‘Palestine’ in its url.
Posting verifiable facts is not a crime, but terrorizing Jewish people by slandering the IDF is and should be a crime.
It was not an opinion piece but actually a report put out by Defense for Children international- Palestine which is an NGO that works for the rights of children in the West Bank and Gaza.
Shortly after they came out with this report they were designated a terrorist organization by Israel and had their offices raided. Several countries (France, Germany, Sweden among others) said there was no proof of terrorism and would continue to work with them.
This is mentioned in an interview former state department official Josh Paul gave on PBS:
I was part of the human rights vetting process for arms going to Israel. And a charity called Defensive Children
International Palestine drew our attention at the State Department to the sexual assault, actually the rape of a 13-year-old boy that occurred in an
Israeli prison in Moskobiya (ph) in Jerusalem.
We examined these allegations. We believe they were credible. We put them through Israel to the government of Israel. And you know what happened the
next day? The IDF went into the DCIP offices and removed all their computers and declared them a terrorist entity.
So you admit that Israel determined that the group making this allegation was found to be a terrorist organization by Israel, right?
So why should I read their report if they are a terrorist organization? As I said in my first post, it is clearly biased.
Do whatever you want, but Israel has proven time and time again to be the party in this conflict that cannot be trusted, and that cannot sustain integrity in their reporting of what’s occurring in the region.
People without an agenda instinctively laugh aloud when “Israel” and “facts” are mentioned in the same breath. Zero integrity. Zero credibility.
Israel is basically an isolated state on the world stage because countries don’t trust anyone affiliated with the Israeli government. Maybe that will change with a new wave of political leaders in Israel, but right now, Israel is not taken seriously by the rest of the world. Its just not.
DP. Well, we’ve definitely found the nutter. If you replace Hamas for Israel in your post, you’d be 100% correct. Unfortunately, you’re just trolling at this point. Israel has allies all over the world - including the U.S. and other western countries. What’s truly laughable is your inability to admit that Hamas is everything you listed, and worse. I honestly don’t know why I’m expending energy on you. You’re clearly pro-Hamas.
I’m not the poster you’re responding to but think about those allies. Every
One— Every Single One with the glaring exception of the U.S. has called for a ceasefire and condemned the indiscriminate bombing of civilians.
And here’s why: support for Israel’s wholesale killing of civilians is undermining all European credibility when condemning the same from Russia. Putin is laughing all the way to the UNSC knowing the next time there’s an atrocity in Ukraine like Bucha— at which the sexual violence, including against children was in fact comparable to October 7– he can just show the pictures of thousands of dead Palestinian children in their screaming mothers arms and ask why the U.S only cares about killed children when they’re European.
Support for evil acts in one place undermines our ability to oppose it anywhere. The U.S. has a moral duty to stop facilitating this violence against children.
And Israel has a moral duty— and many Israelis believe it has a moral duty— to protect children. Israel has not been successful in targeting Hamas leadership in this campaign, it is time to reassess their tactics and regain the support they’re losing.
DP. Israel has eliminated numerous Hamas leaders. It has four or so in Gaza left to find.
DP. Israel is creating the next generation of Palestinian terrorists. Any surviving Palestinian is going to hate Israel even more after this current battle is over.
If the IDF hurt one of my children, I regret to say that I'd probably do more than support Hamas. After the IDF has killed and mutilated, displaced, and starved so many Palestinians, I'm surprised that number is as low as 72%.
Yes. This. Israel’s outsized response is only servicing to make Jews less safe worldwide. If you think IDF’s response has been justified based on 1200 deaths and 250 kidnapped victims, just imagine what the Palestinians want to do to Israelis for 20x that amount of suffering.
Wow. What both of you numbskulls conveniently ignore is the FACT that Hamas brutally mutilated, tortured, raped, and murdered, children and other innocent civilians FIRST. Why is it so easy for you to totally twist this narrative? Do you know how insane you sound?
DP
It is a mistake to try to assign a “first” in this conflict. You are correct that Hamas carried out a brutal attack on October 7th, but they didn’t spring into existence on October 6th.
A very interesting article written by an Israeli author.
That's behind a firewall. At any rate, regardless of Jewish settlements, etc. - Israelis have NOT tortured and raped Palestinian women and children. Hamas are monsters. I hope they're eradicated from the face of the earth.
Just a reminder this is the statement categorically denying Israelis have tortured and raped Palestinian women which is precisely what the Israeli justice system says has taken place.
They’ve raped more Palestinian men than the women because they know men don’t ever speak out about such things
Cool story bro. Make wild accusations with no proof, and then give yourself fake cover by saying "you won't hear about it because it's suppressed / people are being bought off / they won't talk to it because of cultural issues" etc.
Here is a report about a 15 year old boy who was raped and was subjected to torture in the genitalia in 2021 by Israeli forces.
This incident has been mentioned in interviews by Josh Paul, who resigned from the US state department earlier this year.
Again for individual reports vs. mass rape event. This is equivalent to when Jeff said about Shani Louk “she had her underwear on”
Ok then say “Israel doesn’t carry out mass rape” and not “Israelis do NOT rape Palestinians”.
Don’t make verifiably false statements and then get defensive when someone tells you they’re false. And really if I were in your shoes I’d take a beat on making either of those claims because we don’t know the full scale of what’s happening right now, and you may find yourself re-defining your parameters for behavior yet again.
You are saying that possibly, Israeli soldiers are mass raping Palestinian women, cutting off breasts, and desecrating the bodies, ie parading their corpses through the streets of Tel Aviv while civilian Israelis are spitting on their dead flesh?
No? I am saying it’s possible there is a larger sexual violence issue with the IDF that we don’t yet know about (due to gag orders and also the lack of reporting from Gaza right now) and so I would continue to advise everyone not to make blanket statements about their behavior which are either verifiably false or have the potential to be proven false later. Stick with what is verifiably true.
The IDF are heroes, and if we had a reasonable leadership in this country people like you blatantly slandering such heroes would be arrested and tried for your crimes.
You believe that it should be a crime in the United States to post verified facts— published by the governments in question— about the conduct of foreign militaries?
They are NOT verified. They were part of a biased opinion piece as shown by the fact that the website has the word ‘Palestine’ in its url.
Posting verifiable facts is not a crime, but terrorizing Jewish people by slandering the IDF is and should be a crime.
It was not an opinion piece but actually a report put out by Defense for Children international- Palestine which is an NGO that works for the rights of children in the West Bank and Gaza.
Shortly after they came out with this report they were designated a terrorist organization by Israel and had their offices raided. Several countries (France, Germany, Sweden among others) said there was no proof of terrorism and would continue to work with them.
This is mentioned in an interview former state department official Josh Paul gave on PBS:
I was part of the human rights vetting process for arms going to Israel. And a charity called Defensive Children
International Palestine drew our attention at the State Department to the sexual assault, actually the rape of a 13-year-old boy that occurred in an
Israeli prison in Moskobiya (ph) in Jerusalem.
We examined these allegations. We believe they were credible. We put them through Israel to the government of Israel. And you know what happened the
next day? The IDF went into the DCIP offices and removed all their computers and declared them a terrorist entity.
So you admit that Israel determined that the group making this allegation was found to be a terrorist organization by Israel, right?
So why should I read their report if they are a terrorist organization? As I said in my first post, it is clearly biased.
Do whatever you want, but Israel has proven time and time again to be the party in this conflict that cannot be trusted, and that cannot sustain integrity in their reporting of what’s occurring in the region.
People without an agenda instinctively laugh aloud when “Israel” and “facts” are mentioned in the same breath. Zero integrity. Zero credibility.
Israel is basically an isolated state on the world stage because countries don’t trust anyone affiliated with the Israeli government. Maybe that will change with a new wave of political leaders in Israel, but right now, Israel is not taken seriously by the rest of the world. Its just not.
DP. Well, we’ve definitely found the nutter. If you replace Hamas for Israel in your post, you’d be 100% correct. Unfortunately, you’re just trolling at this point. Israel has allies all over the world - including the U.S. and other western countries. What’s truly laughable is your inability to admit that Hamas is everything you listed, and worse. I honestly don’t know why I’m expending energy on you. You’re clearly pro-Hamas.
I’m not the poster you’re responding to but think about those allies. Every
One— Every Single One with the glaring exception of the U.S. has called for a ceasefire and condemned the indiscriminate bombing of civilians.
And here’s why: support for Israel’s wholesale killing of civilians is undermining all European credibility when condemning the same from Russia. Putin is laughing all the way to the UNSC knowing the next time there’s an atrocity in Ukraine like Bucha— at which the sexual violence, including against children was in fact comparable to October 7– he can just show the pictures of thousands of dead Palestinian children in their screaming mothers arms and ask why the U.S only cares about killed children when they’re European.
Support for evil acts in one place undermines our ability to oppose it anywhere. The U.S. has a moral duty to stop facilitating this violence against children.
And Israel has a moral duty— and many Israelis believe it has a moral duty— to protect children. Israel has not been successful in targeting Hamas leadership in this campaign, it is time to reassess their tactics and regain the support they’re losing.
DP. Israel has eliminated numerous Hamas leaders. It has four or so in Gaza left to find.
DP. Israel is creating the next generation of Palestinian terrorists. Any surviving Palestinian is going to hate Israel even more after this current battle is over.
IDF uncovered children’s Hamas military uniforms and Hamas uses children for tactical military purposes. And vile anti-Jewish hatred is taught in Gaza schools. It’s a tough bar to top!
Anonymous wrote:This thread is basically the current events in ME going on. Impossible for people to change each other minds and def nobody willing to cede any points. Wonder why the fight continues and will never end there? Obviously human nature is why nothing will resolve. There's no debating or negotiating until there's nothing left honestly. Sad but true. People are to stuck in their own views to ever have peace. On this forum and on the battlefront.
So, then, it seems appropriate to recall the words of Secretary State Blinken: This all ends, now, if Hamas surrenders.
Why would Hamas surrender? That's certain death. This will never end.
Nah. For the handful of remaining boss men it’s a ticket to exile and gold plated suites of rooms in some hotel.
If the IDF hurt one of my children, I regret to say that I'd probably do more than support Hamas. After the IDF has killed and mutilated, displaced, and starved so many Palestinians, I'm surprised that number is as low as 72%.
Yes. This. Israel’s outsized response is only servicing to make Jews less safe worldwide. If you think IDF’s response has been justified based on 1200 deaths and 250 kidnapped victims, just imagine what the Palestinians want to do to Israelis for 20x that amount of suffering.
Wow. What both of you numbskulls conveniently ignore is the FACT that Hamas brutally mutilated, tortured, raped, and murdered, children and other innocent civilians FIRST. Why is it so easy for you to totally twist this narrative? Do you know how insane you sound?
DP
It is a mistake to try to assign a “first” in this conflict. You are correct that Hamas carried out a brutal attack on October 7th, but they didn’t spring into existence on October 6th.
A very interesting article written by an Israeli author.
That's behind a firewall. At any rate, regardless of Jewish settlements, etc. - Israelis have NOT tortured and raped Palestinian women and children. Hamas are monsters. I hope they're eradicated from the face of the earth.
Just a reminder this is the statement categorically denying Israelis have tortured and raped Palestinian women which is precisely what the Israeli justice system says has taken place.
They’ve raped more Palestinian men than the women because they know men don’t ever speak out about such things
Cool story bro. Make wild accusations with no proof, and then give yourself fake cover by saying "you won't hear about it because it's suppressed / people are being bought off / they won't talk to it because of cultural issues" etc.
Here is a report about a 15 year old boy who was raped and was subjected to torture in the genitalia in 2021 by Israeli forces.
This incident has been mentioned in interviews by Josh Paul, who resigned from the US state department earlier this year.
Again for individual reports vs. mass rape event. This is equivalent to when Jeff said about Shani Louk “she had her underwear on”
Ok then say “Israel doesn’t carry out mass rape” and not “Israelis do NOT rape Palestinians”.
Don’t make verifiably false statements and then get defensive when someone tells you they’re false. And really if I were in your shoes I’d take a beat on making either of those claims because we don’t know the full scale of what’s happening right now, and you may find yourself re-defining your parameters for behavior yet again.
You are saying that possibly, Israeli soldiers are mass raping Palestinian women, cutting off breasts, and desecrating the bodies, ie parading their corpses through the streets of Tel Aviv while civilian Israelis are spitting on their dead flesh?
No? I am saying it’s possible there is a larger sexual violence issue with the IDF that we don’t yet know about (due to gag orders and also the lack of reporting from Gaza right now) and so I would continue to advise everyone not to make blanket statements about their behavior which are either verifiably false or have the potential to be proven false later. Stick with what is verifiably true.
The IDF are heroes, and if we had a reasonable leadership in this country people like you blatantly slandering such heroes would be arrested and tried for your crimes.
You believe that it should be a crime in the United States to post verified facts— published by the governments in question— about the conduct of foreign militaries?
They are NOT verified. They were part of a biased opinion piece as shown by the fact that the website has the word ‘Palestine’ in its url.
Posting verifiable facts is not a crime, but terrorizing Jewish people by slandering the IDF is and should be a crime.
It was not an opinion piece but actually a report put out by Defense for Children international- Palestine which is an NGO that works for the rights of children in the West Bank and Gaza.
Shortly after they came out with this report they were designated a terrorist organization by Israel and had their offices raided. Several countries (France, Germany, Sweden among others) said there was no proof of terrorism and would continue to work with them.
This is mentioned in an interview former state department official Josh Paul gave on PBS:
I was part of the human rights vetting process for arms going to Israel. And a charity called Defensive Children
International Palestine drew our attention at the State Department to the sexual assault, actually the rape of a 13-year-old boy that occurred in an
Israeli prison in Moskobiya (ph) in Jerusalem.
We examined these allegations. We believe they were credible. We put them through Israel to the government of Israel. And you know what happened the
next day? The IDF went into the DCIP offices and removed all their computers and declared them a terrorist entity.
So you admit that Israel determined that the group making this allegation was found to be a terrorist organization by Israel, right?
So why should I read their report if they are a terrorist organization? As I said in my first post, it is clearly biased.
Do whatever you want, but Israel has proven time and time again to be the party in this conflict that cannot be trusted, and that cannot sustain integrity in their reporting of what’s occurring in the region.
People without an agenda instinctively laugh aloud when “Israel” and “facts” are mentioned in the same breath. Zero integrity. Zero credibility.
Israel is basically an isolated state on the world stage because countries don’t trust anyone affiliated with the Israeli government. Maybe that will change with a new wave of political leaders in Israel, but right now, Israel is not taken seriously by the rest of the world. Its just not.
DP. Well, we’ve definitely found the nutter. If you replace Hamas for Israel in your post, you’d be 100% correct. Unfortunately, you’re just trolling at this point. Israel has allies all over the world - including the U.S. and other western countries. What’s truly laughable is your inability to admit that Hamas is everything you listed, and worse. I honestly don’t know why I’m expending energy on you. You’re clearly pro-Hamas.
I’m not the poster you’re responding to but think about those allies. Every
One— Every Single One with the glaring exception of the U.S. has called for a ceasefire and condemned the indiscriminate bombing of civilians.
And here’s why: support for Israel’s wholesale killing of civilians is undermining all European credibility when condemning the same from Russia. Putin is laughing all the way to the UNSC knowing the next time there’s an atrocity in Ukraine like Bucha— at which the sexual violence, including against children was in fact comparable to October 7– he can just show the pictures of thousands of dead Palestinian children in their screaming mothers arms and ask why the U.S only cares about killed children when they’re European.
Support for evil acts in one place undermines our ability to oppose it anywhere. The U.S. has a moral duty to stop facilitating this violence against children.
And Israel has a moral duty— and many Israelis believe it has a moral duty— to protect children. Israel has not been successful in targeting Hamas leadership in this campaign, it is time to reassess their tactics and regain the support they’re losing.
DP. Israel has eliminated numerous Hamas leaders. It has four or so in Gaza left to find.
Not nearly as many as they need to in order make a proportional warfare case. Meanwhile they’re literally sitting in Qatar in luxury, while Israel kills children and claims it’s only targeting Hamas— meanwhile Hamas is elsewhere. It’s a horrific optic.
Huh? Hamas is estimated to have up to 30,000 terrorists operating in Gaza. Israel has eliminated at least 9,000 of them to date and taken at least 700 prisoners. Blame Hamas for the optics.
They have not eliminated “at least 9,000” unless your math is that every adult killed in Gaza was “a Hamas fighter”.
They have eliminated very few high value targets. They have admitted this— it’s why they say they will need to operate for months— meanwhile significant leadership of Hamas isn’t in Gaza. They’re killing low value targets and civilians which is why they’ve lost so much support in the last month.
My math is based on the source: 1,000 terrorists eliminated on October 7 and the days immediately following. Add to that 8,000 terrorists subsequently. And that’s a low estimate. Hamas does not include the 8,000 in its numbers.
Ok I’m going to need a citation for these
8,000 uncounted “Hamas fighters”. The 700 captured is reported by the BBC.
If the IDF hurt one of my children, I regret to say that I'd probably do more than support Hamas. After the IDF has killed and mutilated, displaced, and starved so many Palestinians, I'm surprised that number is as low as 72%.
Yes. This. Israel’s outsized response is only servicing to make Jews less safe worldwide. If you think IDF’s response has been justified based on 1200 deaths and 250 kidnapped victims, just imagine what the Palestinians want to do to Israelis for 20x that amount of suffering.
Wow. What both of you numbskulls conveniently ignore is the FACT that Hamas brutally mutilated, tortured, raped, and murdered, children and other innocent civilians FIRST. Why is it so easy for you to totally twist this narrative? Do you know how insane you sound?
DP
It is a mistake to try to assign a “first” in this conflict. You are correct that Hamas carried out a brutal attack on October 7th, but they didn’t spring into existence on October 6th.
A very interesting article written by an Israeli author.
That's behind a firewall. At any rate, regardless of Jewish settlements, etc. - Israelis have NOT tortured and raped Palestinian women and children. Hamas are monsters. I hope they're eradicated from the face of the earth.
Just a reminder this is the statement categorically denying Israelis have tortured and raped Palestinian women which is precisely what the Israeli justice system says has taken place.
They’ve raped more Palestinian men than the women because they know men don’t ever speak out about such things
Cool story bro. Make wild accusations with no proof, and then give yourself fake cover by saying "you won't hear about it because it's suppressed / people are being bought off / they won't talk to it because of cultural issues" etc.
Here is a report about a 15 year old boy who was raped and was subjected to torture in the genitalia in 2021 by Israeli forces.
This incident has been mentioned in interviews by Josh Paul, who resigned from the US state department earlier this year.
Again for individual reports vs. mass rape event. This is equivalent to when Jeff said about Shani Louk “she had her underwear on”
Ok then say “Israel doesn’t carry out mass rape” and not “Israelis do NOT rape Palestinians”.
Don’t make verifiably false statements and then get defensive when someone tells you they’re false. And really if I were in your shoes I’d take a beat on making either of those claims because we don’t know the full scale of what’s happening right now, and you may find yourself re-defining your parameters for behavior yet again.
You are saying that possibly, Israeli soldiers are mass raping Palestinian women, cutting off breasts, and desecrating the bodies, ie parading their corpses through the streets of Tel Aviv while civilian Israelis are spitting on their dead flesh?
No? I am saying it’s possible there is a larger sexual violence issue with the IDF that we don’t yet know about (due to gag orders and also the lack of reporting from Gaza right now) and so I would continue to advise everyone not to make blanket statements about their behavior which are either verifiably false or have the potential to be proven false later. Stick with what is verifiably true.
The IDF are heroes, and if we had a reasonable leadership in this country people like you blatantly slandering such heroes would be arrested and tried for your crimes.
You believe that it should be a crime in the United States to post verified facts— published by the governments in question— about the conduct of foreign militaries?
They are NOT verified. They were part of a biased opinion piece as shown by the fact that the website has the word ‘Palestine’ in its url.
Posting verifiable facts is not a crime, but terrorizing Jewish people by slandering the IDF is and should be a crime.
It was not an opinion piece but actually a report put out by Defense for Children international- Palestine which is an NGO that works for the rights of children in the West Bank and Gaza.
Shortly after they came out with this report they were designated a terrorist organization by Israel and had their offices raided. Several countries (France, Germany, Sweden among others) said there was no proof of terrorism and would continue to work with them.
This is mentioned in an interview former state department official Josh Paul gave on PBS:
I was part of the human rights vetting process for arms going to Israel. And a charity called Defensive Children
International Palestine drew our attention at the State Department to the sexual assault, actually the rape of a 13-year-old boy that occurred in an
Israeli prison in Moskobiya (ph) in Jerusalem.
We examined these allegations. We believe they were credible. We put them through Israel to the government of Israel. And you know what happened the
next day? The IDF went into the DCIP offices and removed all their computers and declared them a terrorist entity.
So you admit that Israel determined that the group making this allegation was found to be a terrorist organization by Israel, right?
So why should I read their report if they are a terrorist organization? As I said in my first post, it is clearly biased.
Do whatever you want, but Israel has proven time and time again to be the party in this conflict that cannot be trusted, and that cannot sustain integrity in their reporting of what’s occurring in the region.
People without an agenda instinctively laugh aloud when “Israel” and “facts” are mentioned in the same breath. Zero integrity. Zero credibility.
Israel is basically an isolated state on the world stage because countries don’t trust anyone affiliated with the Israeli government. Maybe that will change with a new wave of political leaders in Israel, but right now, Israel is not taken seriously by the rest of the world. Its just not.
DP. Well, we’ve definitely found the nutter. If you replace Hamas for Israel in your post, you’d be 100% correct. Unfortunately, you’re just trolling at this point. Israel has allies all over the world - including the U.S. and other western countries. What’s truly laughable is your inability to admit that Hamas is everything you listed, and worse. I honestly don’t know why I’m expending energy on you. You’re clearly pro-Hamas.
I’m not the poster you’re responding to but think about those allies. Every
One— Every Single One with the glaring exception of the U.S. has called for a ceasefire and condemned the indiscriminate bombing of civilians.
And here’s why: support for Israel’s wholesale killing of civilians is undermining all European credibility when condemning the same from Russia. Putin is laughing all the way to the UNSC knowing the next time there’s an atrocity in Ukraine like Bucha— at which the sexual violence, including against children was in fact comparable to October 7– he can just show the pictures of thousands of dead Palestinian children in their screaming mothers arms and ask why the U.S only cares about killed children when they’re European.
Support for evil acts in one place undermines our ability to oppose it anywhere. The U.S. has a moral duty to stop facilitating this violence against children.
And Israel has a moral duty— and many Israelis believe it has a moral duty— to protect children. Israel has not been successful in targeting Hamas leadership in this campaign, it is time to reassess their tactics and regain the support they’re losing.
DP. Israel has eliminated numerous Hamas leaders. It has four or so in Gaza left to find.
Not nearly as many as they need to in order make a proportional warfare case. Meanwhile they’re literally sitting in Qatar in luxury, while Israel kills children and claims it’s only targeting Hamas— meanwhile Hamas is elsewhere. It’s a horrific optic.
Huh? Hamas is estimated to have up to 30,000 terrorists operating in Gaza. Israel has eliminated at least 9,000 of them to date and taken at least 700 prisoners. Blame Hamas for the optics.
They have not eliminated “at least 9,000” unless your math is that every adult killed in Gaza was “a Hamas fighter”.
They have eliminated very few high value targets. They have admitted this— it’s why they say they will need to operate for months— meanwhile significant leadership of Hamas isn’t in Gaza. They’re killing low value targets and civilians which is why they’ve lost so much support in the last month.
My math is based on the source: 1,000 terrorists eliminated on October 7 and the days immediately following. Add to that 8,000 terrorists subsequently. And that’s a low estimate. Hamas does not include the 8,000 in its numbers.
Ok I’m going to need a citation for these
8,000 uncounted “Hamas fighters”. The 700 captured is reported by the BBC.
If the IDF hurt one of my children, I regret to say that I'd probably do more than support Hamas. After the IDF has killed and mutilated, displaced, and starved so many Palestinians, I'm surprised that number is as low as 72%.
Yes. This. Israel’s outsized response is only servicing to make Jews less safe worldwide. If you think IDF’s response has been justified based on 1200 deaths and 250 kidnapped victims, just imagine what the Palestinians want to do to Israelis for 20x that amount of suffering.
Wow. What both of you numbskulls conveniently ignore is the FACT that Hamas brutally mutilated, tortured, raped, and murdered, children and other innocent civilians FIRST. Why is it so easy for you to totally twist this narrative? Do you know how insane you sound?
DP
It is a mistake to try to assign a “first” in this conflict. You are correct that Hamas carried out a brutal attack on October 7th, but they didn’t spring into existence on October 6th.
A very interesting article written by an Israeli author.
That's behind a firewall. At any rate, regardless of Jewish settlements, etc. - Israelis have NOT tortured and raped Palestinian women and children. Hamas are monsters. I hope they're eradicated from the face of the earth.
Just a reminder this is the statement categorically denying Israelis have tortured and raped Palestinian women which is precisely what the Israeli justice system says has taken place.
They’ve raped more Palestinian men than the women because they know men don’t ever speak out about such things
Cool story bro. Make wild accusations with no proof, and then give yourself fake cover by saying "you won't hear about it because it's suppressed / people are being bought off / they won't talk to it because of cultural issues" etc.
Here is a report about a 15 year old boy who was raped and was subjected to torture in the genitalia in 2021 by Israeli forces.
This incident has been mentioned in interviews by Josh Paul, who resigned from the US state department earlier this year.
Again for individual reports vs. mass rape event. This is equivalent to when Jeff said about Shani Louk “she had her underwear on”
Ok then say “Israel doesn’t carry out mass rape” and not “Israelis do NOT rape Palestinians”.
Don’t make verifiably false statements and then get defensive when someone tells you they’re false. And really if I were in your shoes I’d take a beat on making either of those claims because we don’t know the full scale of what’s happening right now, and you may find yourself re-defining your parameters for behavior yet again.
You are saying that possibly, Israeli soldiers are mass raping Palestinian women, cutting off breasts, and desecrating the bodies, ie parading their corpses through the streets of Tel Aviv while civilian Israelis are spitting on their dead flesh?
No? I am saying it’s possible there is a larger sexual violence issue with the IDF that we don’t yet know about (due to gag orders and also the lack of reporting from Gaza right now) and so I would continue to advise everyone not to make blanket statements about their behavior which are either verifiably false or have the potential to be proven false later. Stick with what is verifiably true.
The IDF are heroes, and if we had a reasonable leadership in this country people like you blatantly slandering such heroes would be arrested and tried for your crimes.
You believe that it should be a crime in the United States to post verified facts— published by the governments in question— about the conduct of foreign militaries?
They are NOT verified. They were part of a biased opinion piece as shown by the fact that the website has the word ‘Palestine’ in its url.
Posting verifiable facts is not a crime, but terrorizing Jewish people by slandering the IDF is and should be a crime.
It was not an opinion piece but actually a report put out by Defense for Children international- Palestine which is an NGO that works for the rights of children in the West Bank and Gaza.
Shortly after they came out with this report they were designated a terrorist organization by Israel and had their offices raided. Several countries (France, Germany, Sweden among others) said there was no proof of terrorism and would continue to work with them.
This is mentioned in an interview former state department official Josh Paul gave on PBS:
I was part of the human rights vetting process for arms going to Israel. And a charity called Defensive Children
International Palestine drew our attention at the State Department to the sexual assault, actually the rape of a 13-year-old boy that occurred in an
Israeli prison in Moskobiya (ph) in Jerusalem.
We examined these allegations. We believe they were credible. We put them through Israel to the government of Israel. And you know what happened the
next day? The IDF went into the DCIP offices and removed all their computers and declared them a terrorist entity.
So you admit that Israel determined that the group making this allegation was found to be a terrorist organization by Israel, right?
So why should I read their report if they are a terrorist organization? As I said in my first post, it is clearly biased.
Do whatever you want, but Israel has proven time and time again to be the party in this conflict that cannot be trusted, and that cannot sustain integrity in their reporting of what’s occurring in the region.
People without an agenda instinctively laugh aloud when “Israel” and “facts” are mentioned in the same breath. Zero integrity. Zero credibility.
Israel is basically an isolated state on the world stage because countries don’t trust anyone affiliated with the Israeli government. Maybe that will change with a new wave of political leaders in Israel, but right now, Israel is not taken seriously by the rest of the world. Its just not.
DP. Well, we’ve definitely found the nutter. If you replace Hamas for Israel in your post, you’d be 100% correct. Unfortunately, you’re just trolling at this point. Israel has allies all over the world - including the U.S. and other western countries. What’s truly laughable is your inability to admit that Hamas is everything you listed, and worse. I honestly don’t know why I’m expending energy on you. You’re clearly pro-Hamas.
I’m not the poster you’re responding to but think about those allies. Every
One— Every Single One with the glaring exception of the U.S. has called for a ceasefire and condemned the indiscriminate bombing of civilians.
And here’s why: support for Israel’s wholesale killing of civilians is undermining all European credibility when condemning the same from Russia. Putin is laughing all the way to the UNSC knowing the next time there’s an atrocity in Ukraine like Bucha— at which the sexual violence, including against children was in fact comparable to October 7– he can just show the pictures of thousands of dead Palestinian children in their screaming mothers arms and ask why the U.S only cares about killed children when they’re European.
Support for evil acts in one place undermines our ability to oppose it anywhere. The U.S. has a moral duty to stop facilitating this violence against children.
And Israel has a moral duty— and many Israelis believe it has a moral duty— to protect children. Israel has not been successful in targeting Hamas leadership in this campaign, it is time to reassess their tactics and regain the support they’re losing.
DP. Israel has eliminated numerous Hamas leaders. It has four or so in Gaza left to find.
Not nearly as many as they need to in order make a proportional warfare case. Meanwhile they’re literally sitting in Qatar in luxury, while Israel kills children and claims it’s only targeting Hamas— meanwhile Hamas is elsewhere. It’s a horrific optic.
Huh? Hamas is estimated to have up to 30,000 terrorists operating in Gaza. Israel has eliminated at least 9,000 of them to date and taken at least 700 prisoners. Blame Hamas for the optics.
They have not eliminated “at least 9,000” unless your math is that every adult killed in Gaza was “a Hamas fighter”.
They have eliminated very few high value targets. They have admitted this— it’s why they say they will need to operate for months— meanwhile significant leadership of Hamas isn’t in Gaza. They’re killing low value targets and civilians which is why they’ve lost so much support in the last month.
My math is based on the source: 1,000 terrorists eliminated on October 7 and the days immediately following. Add to that 8,000 terrorists subsequently. And that’s a low estimate. Hamas does not include the 8,000 in its numbers.
Ok I’m going to need a citation for these
8,000 uncounted “Hamas fighters”. The 700 captured is reported by the BBC.
Please post the links that differentiate from the 20,000 killed figures. Seriously I cannot find any.
The Hamas ministry of health does not separate out the numbers or separate out those killed by Hamas failed rocket launches. IDF has stated 2:1 ratio.
Yeah I find that uncompelling based on the demographics of Gaza. It sounds like they’re either counting all adult deaths,
Or all “males of fighting age” deaths. If they have evidence they’re really only killing Hamas fighters they certainly need to release it.
The UN has said the Gaza ministry of health figures are reliable historically, I am not seeing any suggestion that this a different case.
If the IDF hurt one of my children, I regret to say that I'd probably do more than support Hamas. After the IDF has killed and mutilated, displaced, and starved so many Palestinians, I'm surprised that number is as low as 72%.
Yes. This. Israel’s outsized response is only servicing to make Jews less safe worldwide. If you think IDF’s response has been justified based on 1200 deaths and 250 kidnapped victims, just imagine what the Palestinians want to do to Israelis for 20x that amount of suffering.
Wow. What both of you numbskulls conveniently ignore is the FACT that Hamas brutally mutilated, tortured, raped, and murdered, children and other innocent civilians FIRST. Why is it so easy for you to totally twist this narrative? Do you know how insane you sound?
DP
It is a mistake to try to assign a “first” in this conflict. You are correct that Hamas carried out a brutal attack on October 7th, but they didn’t spring into existence on October 6th.
A very interesting article written by an Israeli author.
That's behind a firewall. At any rate, regardless of Jewish settlements, etc. - Israelis have NOT tortured and raped Palestinian women and children. Hamas are monsters. I hope they're eradicated from the face of the earth.
Just a reminder this is the statement categorically denying Israelis have tortured and raped Palestinian women which is precisely what the Israeli justice system says has taken place.
They’ve raped more Palestinian men than the women because they know men don’t ever speak out about such things
Cool story bro. Make wild accusations with no proof, and then give yourself fake cover by saying "you won't hear about it because it's suppressed / people are being bought off / they won't talk to it because of cultural issues" etc.
Here is a report about a 15 year old boy who was raped and was subjected to torture in the genitalia in 2021 by Israeli forces.
This incident has been mentioned in interviews by Josh Paul, who resigned from the US state department earlier this year.
Again for individual reports vs. mass rape event. This is equivalent to when Jeff said about Shani Louk “she had her underwear on”
Ok then say “Israel doesn’t carry out mass rape” and not “Israelis do NOT rape Palestinians”.
Don’t make verifiably false statements and then get defensive when someone tells you they’re false. And really if I were in your shoes I’d take a beat on making either of those claims because we don’t know the full scale of what’s happening right now, and you may find yourself re-defining your parameters for behavior yet again.
You are saying that possibly, Israeli soldiers are mass raping Palestinian women, cutting off breasts, and desecrating the bodies, ie parading their corpses through the streets of Tel Aviv while civilian Israelis are spitting on their dead flesh?
No? I am saying it’s possible there is a larger sexual violence issue with the IDF that we don’t yet know about (due to gag orders and also the lack of reporting from Gaza right now) and so I would continue to advise everyone not to make blanket statements about their behavior which are either verifiably false or have the potential to be proven false later. Stick with what is verifiably true.
The IDF are heroes, and if we had a reasonable leadership in this country people like you blatantly slandering such heroes would be arrested and tried for your crimes.
You believe that it should be a crime in the United States to post verified facts— published by the governments in question— about the conduct of foreign militaries?
They are NOT verified. They were part of a biased opinion piece as shown by the fact that the website has the word ‘Palestine’ in its url.
Posting verifiable facts is not a crime, but terrorizing Jewish people by slandering the IDF is and should be a crime.
It was not an opinion piece but actually a report put out by Defense for Children international- Palestine which is an NGO that works for the rights of children in the West Bank and Gaza.
Shortly after they came out with this report they were designated a terrorist organization by Israel and had their offices raided. Several countries (France, Germany, Sweden among others) said there was no proof of terrorism and would continue to work with them.
This is mentioned in an interview former state department official Josh Paul gave on PBS:
I was part of the human rights vetting process for arms going to Israel. And a charity called Defensive Children
International Palestine drew our attention at the State Department to the sexual assault, actually the rape of a 13-year-old boy that occurred in an
Israeli prison in Moskobiya (ph) in Jerusalem.
We examined these allegations. We believe they were credible. We put them through Israel to the government of Israel. And you know what happened the
next day? The IDF went into the DCIP offices and removed all their computers and declared them a terrorist entity.
So you admit that Israel determined that the group making this allegation was found to be a terrorist organization by Israel, right?
So why should I read their report if they are a terrorist organization? As I said in my first post, it is clearly biased.
Do whatever you want, but Israel has proven time and time again to be the party in this conflict that cannot be trusted, and that cannot sustain integrity in their reporting of what’s occurring in the region.
People without an agenda instinctively laugh aloud when “Israel” and “facts” are mentioned in the same breath. Zero integrity. Zero credibility.
Israel is basically an isolated state on the world stage because countries don’t trust anyone affiliated with the Israeli government. Maybe that will change with a new wave of political leaders in Israel, but right now, Israel is not taken seriously by the rest of the world. Its just not.
DP. Well, we’ve definitely found the nutter. If you replace Hamas for Israel in your post, you’d be 100% correct. Unfortunately, you’re just trolling at this point. Israel has allies all over the world - including the U.S. and other western countries. What’s truly laughable is your inability to admit that Hamas is everything you listed, and worse. I honestly don’t know why I’m expending energy on you. You’re clearly pro-Hamas.
I’m not the poster you’re responding to but think about those allies. Every
One— Every Single One with the glaring exception of the U.S. has called for a ceasefire and condemned the indiscriminate bombing of civilians.
And here’s why: support for Israel’s wholesale killing of civilians is undermining all European credibility when condemning the same from Russia. Putin is laughing all the way to the UNSC knowing the next time there’s an atrocity in Ukraine like Bucha— at which the sexual violence, including against children was in fact comparable to October 7– he can just show the pictures of thousands of dead Palestinian children in their screaming mothers arms and ask why the U.S only cares about killed children when they’re European.
Support for evil acts in one place undermines our ability to oppose it anywhere. The U.S. has a moral duty to stop facilitating this violence against children.
And Israel has a moral duty— and many Israelis believe it has a moral duty— to protect children. Israel has not been successful in targeting Hamas leadership in this campaign, it is time to reassess their tactics and regain the support they’re losing.
DP. Israel has eliminated numerous Hamas leaders. It has four or so in Gaza left to find.
Not nearly as many as they need to in order make a proportional warfare case. Meanwhile they’re literally sitting in Qatar in luxury, while Israel kills children and claims it’s only targeting Hamas— meanwhile Hamas is elsewhere. It’s a horrific optic.
Huh? Hamas is estimated to have up to 30,000 terrorists operating in Gaza. Israel has eliminated at least 9,000 of them to date and taken at least 700 prisoners. Blame Hamas for the optics.
They have not eliminated “at least 9,000” unless your math is that every adult killed in Gaza was “a Hamas fighter”.
They have eliminated very few high value targets. They have admitted this— it’s why they say they will need to operate for months— meanwhile significant leadership of Hamas isn’t in Gaza. They’re killing low value targets and civilians which is why they’ve lost so much support in the last month.
My math is based on the source: 1,000 terrorists eliminated on October 7 and the days immediately following. Add to that 8,000 terrorists subsequently. And that’s a low estimate. Hamas does not include the 8,000 in its numbers.
Ok I’m going to need a citation for these
8,000 uncounted “Hamas fighters”. The 700 captured is reported by the BBC.
Please post the links that differentiate from the 20,000 killed figures. Seriously I cannot find any.
The Hamas ministry of health does not separate out the numbers or separate out those killed by Hamas failed rocket launches. IDF has stated 2:1 ratio.
Yeah I find that uncompelling based on the demographics of Gaza. It sounds like they’re either counting all adult deaths,
Or all “males of fighting age” deaths. If they have evidence they’re really only killing Hamas fighters they certainly need to release it.
The UN has said the Gaza ministry of health figures are reliable historically, I am not seeing any suggestion that this a different case.
I see no suggestion not to take Hamas numbers with a grain of salt. Israel states that since the End of the Truce it liquidated 2,000 Hamas terrorists. Proof to the contrary?
If the IDF hurt one of my children, I regret to say that I'd probably do more than support Hamas. After the IDF has killed and mutilated, displaced, and starved so many Palestinians, I'm surprised that number is as low as 72%.
Yes. This. Israel’s outsized response is only servicing to make Jews less safe worldwide. If you think IDF’s response has been justified based on 1200 deaths and 250 kidnapped victims, just imagine what the Palestinians want to do to Israelis for 20x that amount of suffering.
Wow. What both of you numbskulls conveniently ignore is the FACT that Hamas brutally mutilated, tortured, raped, and murdered, children and other innocent civilians FIRST. Why is it so easy for you to totally twist this narrative? Do you know how insane you sound?
DP
It is a mistake to try to assign a “first” in this conflict. You are correct that Hamas carried out a brutal attack on October 7th, but they didn’t spring into existence on October 6th.
A very interesting article written by an Israeli author.
That's behind a firewall. At any rate, regardless of Jewish settlements, etc. - Israelis have NOT tortured and raped Palestinian women and children. Hamas are monsters. I hope they're eradicated from the face of the earth.
Just a reminder this is the statement categorically denying Israelis have tortured and raped Palestinian women which is precisely what the Israeli justice system says has taken place.
They’ve raped more Palestinian men than the women because they know men don’t ever speak out about such things
Cool story bro. Make wild accusations with no proof, and then give yourself fake cover by saying "you won't hear about it because it's suppressed / people are being bought off / they won't talk to it because of cultural issues" etc.
Here is a report about a 15 year old boy who was raped and was subjected to torture in the genitalia in 2021 by Israeli forces.
This incident has been mentioned in interviews by Josh Paul, who resigned from the US state department earlier this year.
Again for individual reports vs. mass rape event. This is equivalent to when Jeff said about Shani Louk “she had her underwear on”
Ok then say “Israel doesn’t carry out mass rape” and not “Israelis do NOT rape Palestinians”.
Don’t make verifiably false statements and then get defensive when someone tells you they’re false. And really if I were in your shoes I’d take a beat on making either of those claims because we don’t know the full scale of what’s happening right now, and you may find yourself re-defining your parameters for behavior yet again.
You are saying that possibly, Israeli soldiers are mass raping Palestinian women, cutting off breasts, and desecrating the bodies, ie parading their corpses through the streets of Tel Aviv while civilian Israelis are spitting on their dead flesh?
No? I am saying it’s possible there is a larger sexual violence issue with the IDF that we don’t yet know about (due to gag orders and also the lack of reporting from Gaza right now) and so I would continue to advise everyone not to make blanket statements about their behavior which are either verifiably false or have the potential to be proven false later. Stick with what is verifiably true.
The IDF are heroes, and if we had a reasonable leadership in this country people like you blatantly slandering such heroes would be arrested and tried for your crimes.
You believe that it should be a crime in the United States to post verified facts— published by the governments in question— about the conduct of foreign militaries?
They are NOT verified. They were part of a biased opinion piece as shown by the fact that the website has the word ‘Palestine’ in its url.
Posting verifiable facts is not a crime, but terrorizing Jewish people by slandering the IDF is and should be a crime.
It was not an opinion piece but actually a report put out by Defense for Children international- Palestine which is an NGO that works for the rights of children in the West Bank and Gaza.
Shortly after they came out with this report they were designated a terrorist organization by Israel and had their offices raided. Several countries (France, Germany, Sweden among others) said there was no proof of terrorism and would continue to work with them.
This is mentioned in an interview former state department official Josh Paul gave on PBS:
I was part of the human rights vetting process for arms going to Israel. And a charity called Defensive Children
International Palestine drew our attention at the State Department to the sexual assault, actually the rape of a 13-year-old boy that occurred in an
Israeli prison in Moskobiya (ph) in Jerusalem.
We examined these allegations. We believe they were credible. We put them through Israel to the government of Israel. And you know what happened the
next day? The IDF went into the DCIP offices and removed all their computers and declared them a terrorist entity.
So you admit that Israel determined that the group making this allegation was found to be a terrorist organization by Israel, right?
So why should I read their report if they are a terrorist organization? As I said in my first post, it is clearly biased.
Do whatever you want, but Israel has proven time and time again to be the party in this conflict that cannot be trusted, and that cannot sustain integrity in their reporting of what’s occurring in the region.
People without an agenda instinctively laugh aloud when “Israel” and “facts” are mentioned in the same breath. Zero integrity. Zero credibility.
Israel is basically an isolated state on the world stage because countries don’t trust anyone affiliated with the Israeli government. Maybe that will change with a new wave of political leaders in Israel, but right now, Israel is not taken seriously by the rest of the world. Its just not.
DP. Well, we’ve definitely found the nutter. If you replace Hamas for Israel in your post, you’d be 100% correct. Unfortunately, you’re just trolling at this point. Israel has allies all over the world - including the U.S. and other western countries. What’s truly laughable is your inability to admit that Hamas is everything you listed, and worse. I honestly don’t know why I’m expending energy on you. You’re clearly pro-Hamas.
I’m not the poster you’re responding to but think about those allies. Every
One— Every Single One with the glaring exception of the U.S. has called for a ceasefire and condemned the indiscriminate bombing of civilians.
And here’s why: support for Israel’s wholesale killing of civilians is undermining all European credibility when condemning the same from Russia. Putin is laughing all the way to the UNSC knowing the next time there’s an atrocity in Ukraine like Bucha— at which the sexual violence, including against children was in fact comparable to October 7– he can just show the pictures of thousands of dead Palestinian children in their screaming mothers arms and ask why the U.S only cares about killed children when they’re European.
Support for evil acts in one place undermines our ability to oppose it anywhere. The U.S. has a moral duty to stop facilitating this violence against children.
And Israel has a moral duty— and many Israelis believe it has a moral duty— to protect children. Israel has not been successful in targeting Hamas leadership in this campaign, it is time to reassess their tactics and regain the support they’re losing.
DP. Israel has eliminated numerous Hamas leaders. It has four or so in Gaza left to find.
Not nearly as many as they need to in order make a proportional warfare case. Meanwhile they’re literally sitting in Qatar in luxury, while Israel kills children and claims it’s only targeting Hamas— meanwhile Hamas is elsewhere. It’s a horrific optic.
Huh? Hamas is estimated to have up to 30,000 terrorists operating in Gaza. Israel has eliminated at least 9,000 of them to date and taken at least 700 prisoners. Blame Hamas for the optics.
They have not eliminated “at least 9,000” unless your math is that every adult killed in Gaza was “a Hamas fighter”.
They have eliminated very few high value targets. They have admitted this— it’s why they say they will need to operate for months— meanwhile significant leadership of Hamas isn’t in Gaza. They’re killing low value targets and civilians which is why they’ve lost so much support in the last month.
My math is based on the source: 1,000 terrorists eliminated on October 7 and the days immediately following. Add to that 8,000 terrorists subsequently. And that’s a low estimate. Hamas does not include the 8,000 in its numbers.
Ok I’m going to need a citation for these
8,000 uncounted “Hamas fighters”. The 700 captured is reported by the BBC.
Please post the links that differentiate from the 20,000 killed figures. Seriously I cannot find any.
The Hamas ministry of health does not separate out the numbers or separate out those killed by Hamas failed rocket launches. IDF has stated 2:1 ratio.
Yeah I find that uncompelling based on the demographics of Gaza. It sounds like they’re either counting all adult deaths,
Or all “males of fighting age” deaths. If they have evidence they’re really only killing Hamas fighters they certainly need to release it.
The UN has said the Gaza ministry of health figures are reliable historically, I am not seeing any suggestion that this a different case.
I see no suggestion not to take Hamas numbers with a grain of salt. Israel states that since the End of the Truce it liquidated 2,000 Hamas terrorists. Proof to the contrary?
If the IDF hurt one of my children, I regret to say that I'd probably do more than support Hamas. After the IDF has killed and mutilated, displaced, and starved so many Palestinians, I'm surprised that number is as low as 72%.
Yes. This. Israel’s outsized response is only servicing to make Jews less safe worldwide. If you think IDF’s response has been justified based on 1200 deaths and 250 kidnapped victims, just imagine what the Palestinians want to do to Israelis for 20x that amount of suffering.
Wow. What both of you numbskulls conveniently ignore is the FACT that Hamas brutally mutilated, tortured, raped, and murdered, children and other innocent civilians FIRST. Why is it so easy for you to totally twist this narrative? Do you know how insane you sound?
DP
It is a mistake to try to assign a “first” in this conflict. You are correct that Hamas carried out a brutal attack on October 7th, but they didn’t spring into existence on October 6th.
A very interesting article written by an Israeli author.
That's behind a firewall. At any rate, regardless of Jewish settlements, etc. - Israelis have NOT tortured and raped Palestinian women and children. Hamas are monsters. I hope they're eradicated from the face of the earth.
Just a reminder this is the statement categorically denying Israelis have tortured and raped Palestinian women which is precisely what the Israeli justice system says has taken place.
They’ve raped more Palestinian men than the women because they know men don’t ever speak out about such things
Cool story bro. Make wild accusations with no proof, and then give yourself fake cover by saying "you won't hear about it because it's suppressed / people are being bought off / they won't talk to it because of cultural issues" etc.
Here is a report about a 15 year old boy who was raped and was subjected to torture in the genitalia in 2021 by Israeli forces.
This incident has been mentioned in interviews by Josh Paul, who resigned from the US state department earlier this year.
Again for individual reports vs. mass rape event. This is equivalent to when Jeff said about Shani Louk “she had her underwear on”
Ok then say “Israel doesn’t carry out mass rape” and not “Israelis do NOT rape Palestinians”.
Don’t make verifiably false statements and then get defensive when someone tells you they’re false. And really if I were in your shoes I’d take a beat on making either of those claims because we don’t know the full scale of what’s happening right now, and you may find yourself re-defining your parameters for behavior yet again.
You are saying that possibly, Israeli soldiers are mass raping Palestinian women, cutting off breasts, and desecrating the bodies, ie parading their corpses through the streets of Tel Aviv while civilian Israelis are spitting on their dead flesh?
No? I am saying it’s possible there is a larger sexual violence issue with the IDF that we don’t yet know about (due to gag orders and also the lack of reporting from Gaza right now) and so I would continue to advise everyone not to make blanket statements about their behavior which are either verifiably false or have the potential to be proven false later. Stick with what is verifiably true.
The IDF are heroes, and if we had a reasonable leadership in this country people like you blatantly slandering such heroes would be arrested and tried for your crimes.
You believe that it should be a crime in the United States to post verified facts— published by the governments in question— about the conduct of foreign militaries?
They are NOT verified. They were part of a biased opinion piece as shown by the fact that the website has the word ‘Palestine’ in its url.
Posting verifiable facts is not a crime, but terrorizing Jewish people by slandering the IDF is and should be a crime.
It was not an opinion piece but actually a report put out by Defense for Children international- Palestine which is an NGO that works for the rights of children in the West Bank and Gaza.
Shortly after they came out with this report they were designated a terrorist organization by Israel and had their offices raided. Several countries (France, Germany, Sweden among others) said there was no proof of terrorism and would continue to work with them.
This is mentioned in an interview former state department official Josh Paul gave on PBS:
I was part of the human rights vetting process for arms going to Israel. And a charity called Defensive Children
International Palestine drew our attention at the State Department to the sexual assault, actually the rape of a 13-year-old boy that occurred in an
Israeli prison in Moskobiya (ph) in Jerusalem.
We examined these allegations. We believe they were credible. We put them through Israel to the government of Israel. And you know what happened the
next day? The IDF went into the DCIP offices and removed all their computers and declared them a terrorist entity.
So you admit that Israel determined that the group making this allegation was found to be a terrorist organization by Israel, right?
So why should I read their report if they are a terrorist organization? As I said in my first post, it is clearly biased.
Do whatever you want, but Israel has proven time and time again to be the party in this conflict that cannot be trusted, and that cannot sustain integrity in their reporting of what’s occurring in the region.
People without an agenda instinctively laugh aloud when “Israel” and “facts” are mentioned in the same breath. Zero integrity. Zero credibility.
Israel is basically an isolated state on the world stage because countries don’t trust anyone affiliated with the Israeli government. Maybe that will change with a new wave of political leaders in Israel, but right now, Israel is not taken seriously by the rest of the world. Its just not.
DP. Well, we’ve definitely found the nutter. If you replace Hamas for Israel in your post, you’d be 100% correct. Unfortunately, you’re just trolling at this point. Israel has allies all over the world - including the U.S. and other western countries. What’s truly laughable is your inability to admit that Hamas is everything you listed, and worse. I honestly don’t know why I’m expending energy on you. You’re clearly pro-Hamas.
I’m not the poster you’re responding to but think about those allies. Every
One— Every Single One with the glaring exception of the U.S. has called for a ceasefire and condemned the indiscriminate bombing of civilians.
And here’s why: support for Israel’s wholesale killing of civilians is undermining all European credibility when condemning the same from Russia. Putin is laughing all the way to the UNSC knowing the next time there’s an atrocity in Ukraine like Bucha— at which the sexual violence, including against children was in fact comparable to October 7– he can just show the pictures of thousands of dead Palestinian children in their screaming mothers arms and ask why the U.S only cares about killed children when they’re European.
Support for evil acts in one place undermines our ability to oppose it anywhere. The U.S. has a moral duty to stop facilitating this violence against children.
And Israel has a moral duty— and many Israelis believe it has a moral duty— to protect children. Israel has not been successful in targeting Hamas leadership in this campaign, it is time to reassess their tactics and regain the support they’re losing.
DP. Israel has eliminated numerous Hamas leaders. It has four or so in Gaza left to find.
Not nearly as many as they need to in order make a proportional warfare case. Meanwhile they’re literally sitting in Qatar in luxury, while Israel kills children and claims it’s only targeting Hamas— meanwhile Hamas is elsewhere. It’s a horrific optic.
Huh? Hamas is estimated to have up to 30,000 terrorists operating in Gaza. Israel has eliminated at least 9,000 of them to date and taken at least 700 prisoners. Blame Hamas for the optics.
They have not eliminated “at least 9,000” unless your math is that every adult killed in Gaza was “a Hamas fighter”.
They have eliminated very few high value targets. They have admitted this— it’s why they say they will need to operate for months— meanwhile significant leadership of Hamas isn’t in Gaza. They’re killing low value targets and civilians which is why they’ve lost so much support in the last month.
Yet these low value targets would be the ones coming into Israel and blowing up people at bus stops. Should Israel stand by and allow that to keep happening? They can't waltz into Qatar, last I checked.
If the IDF hurt one of my children, I regret to say that I'd probably do more than support Hamas. After the IDF has killed and mutilated, displaced, and starved so many Palestinians, I'm surprised that number is as low as 72%.
Yes. This. Israel’s outsized response is only servicing to make Jews less safe worldwide. If you think IDF’s response has been justified based on 1200 deaths and 250 kidnapped victims, just imagine what the Palestinians want to do to Israelis for 20x that amount of suffering.
Wow. What both of you numbskulls conveniently ignore is the FACT that Hamas brutally mutilated, tortured, raped, and murdered, children and other innocent civilians FIRST. Why is it so easy for you to totally twist this narrative? Do you know how insane you sound?
DP
It is a mistake to try to assign a “first” in this conflict. You are correct that Hamas carried out a brutal attack on October 7th, but they didn’t spring into existence on October 6th.
A very interesting article written by an Israeli author.
That's behind a firewall. At any rate, regardless of Jewish settlements, etc. - Israelis have NOT tortured and raped Palestinian women and children. Hamas are monsters. I hope they're eradicated from the face of the earth.
Just a reminder this is the statement categorically denying Israelis have tortured and raped Palestinian women which is precisely what the Israeli justice system says has taken place.
They’ve raped more Palestinian men than the women because they know men don’t ever speak out about such things
Cool story bro. Make wild accusations with no proof, and then give yourself fake cover by saying "you won't hear about it because it's suppressed / people are being bought off / they won't talk to it because of cultural issues" etc.
Here is a report about a 15 year old boy who was raped and was subjected to torture in the genitalia in 2021 by Israeli forces.
This incident has been mentioned in interviews by Josh Paul, who resigned from the US state department earlier this year.
Again for individual reports vs. mass rape event. This is equivalent to when Jeff said about Shani Louk “she had her underwear on”
Ok then say “Israel doesn’t carry out mass rape” and not “Israelis do NOT rape Palestinians”.
Don’t make verifiably false statements and then get defensive when someone tells you they’re false. And really if I were in your shoes I’d take a beat on making either of those claims because we don’t know the full scale of what’s happening right now, and you may find yourself re-defining your parameters for behavior yet again.
You are saying that possibly, Israeli soldiers are mass raping Palestinian women, cutting off breasts, and desecrating the bodies, ie parading their corpses through the streets of Tel Aviv while civilian Israelis are spitting on their dead flesh?
No? I am saying it’s possible there is a larger sexual violence issue with the IDF that we don’t yet know about (due to gag orders and also the lack of reporting from Gaza right now) and so I would continue to advise everyone not to make blanket statements about their behavior which are either verifiably false or have the potential to be proven false later. Stick with what is verifiably true.
The IDF are heroes, and if we had a reasonable leadership in this country people like you blatantly slandering such heroes would be arrested and tried for your crimes.
You believe that it should be a crime in the United States to post verified facts— published by the governments in question— about the conduct of foreign militaries?
They are NOT verified. They were part of a biased opinion piece as shown by the fact that the website has the word ‘Palestine’ in its url.
Posting verifiable facts is not a crime, but terrorizing Jewish people by slandering the IDF is and should be a crime.
It was not an opinion piece but actually a report put out by Defense for Children international- Palestine which is an NGO that works for the rights of children in the West Bank and Gaza.
Shortly after they came out with this report they were designated a terrorist organization by Israel and had their offices raided. Several countries (France, Germany, Sweden among others) said there was no proof of terrorism and would continue to work with them.
This is mentioned in an interview former state department official Josh Paul gave on PBS:
I was part of the human rights vetting process for arms going to Israel. And a charity called Defensive Children
International Palestine drew our attention at the State Department to the sexual assault, actually the rape of a 13-year-old boy that occurred in an
Israeli prison in Moskobiya (ph) in Jerusalem.
We examined these allegations. We believe they were credible. We put them through Israel to the government of Israel. And you know what happened the
next day? The IDF went into the DCIP offices and removed all their computers and declared them a terrorist entity.
So you admit that Israel determined that the group making this allegation was found to be a terrorist organization by Israel, right?
So why should I read their report if they are a terrorist organization? As I said in my first post, it is clearly biased.
Do whatever you want, but Israel has proven time and time again to be the party in this conflict that cannot be trusted, and that cannot sustain integrity in their reporting of what’s occurring in the region.
People without an agenda instinctively laugh aloud when “Israel” and “facts” are mentioned in the same breath. Zero integrity. Zero credibility.
Israel is basically an isolated state on the world stage because countries don’t trust anyone affiliated with the Israeli government. Maybe that will change with a new wave of political leaders in Israel, but right now, Israel is not taken seriously by the rest of the world. Its just not.
DP. Well, we’ve definitely found the nutter. If you replace Hamas for Israel in your post, you’d be 100% correct. Unfortunately, you’re just trolling at this point. Israel has allies all over the world - including the U.S. and other western countries. What’s truly laughable is your inability to admit that Hamas is everything you listed, and worse. I honestly don’t know why I’m expending energy on you. You’re clearly pro-Hamas.
I’m not the poster you’re responding to but think about those allies. Every
One— Every Single One with the glaring exception of the U.S. has called for a ceasefire and condemned the indiscriminate bombing of civilians.
And here’s why: support for Israel’s wholesale killing of civilians is undermining all European credibility when condemning the same from Russia. Putin is laughing all the way to the UNSC knowing the next time there’s an atrocity in Ukraine like Bucha— at which the sexual violence, including against children was in fact comparable to October 7– he can just show the pictures of thousands of dead Palestinian children in their screaming mothers arms and ask why the U.S only cares about killed children when they’re European.
Support for evil acts in one place undermines our ability to oppose it anywhere. The U.S. has a moral duty to stop facilitating this violence against children.
And Israel has a moral duty— and many Israelis believe it has a moral duty— to protect children. Israel has not been successful in targeting Hamas leadership in this campaign, it is time to reassess their tactics and regain the support they’re losing.
DP. Israel has eliminated numerous Hamas leaders. It has four or so in Gaza left to find.
Not nearly as many as they need to in order make a proportional warfare case. Meanwhile they’re literally sitting in Qatar in luxury, while Israel kills children and claims it’s only targeting Hamas— meanwhile Hamas is elsewhere. It’s a horrific optic.
Huh? Hamas is estimated to have up to 30,000 terrorists operating in Gaza. Israel has eliminated at least 9,000 of them to date and taken at least 700 prisoners. Blame Hamas for the optics.
They have not eliminated “at least 9,000” unless your math is that every adult killed in Gaza was “a Hamas fighter”.
They have eliminated very few high value targets. They have admitted this— it’s why they say they will need to operate for months— meanwhile significant leadership of Hamas isn’t in Gaza. They’re killing low value targets and civilians which is why they’ve lost so much support in the last month.
My math is based on the source: 1,000 terrorists eliminated on October 7 and the days immediately following. Add to that 8,000 terrorists subsequently. And that’s a low estimate. Hamas does not include the 8,000 in its numbers.
Ok I’m going to need a citation for these
8,000 uncounted “Hamas fighters”. The 700 captured is reported by the BBC.
Please post the links that differentiate from the 20,000 killed figures. Seriously I cannot find any.
The Hamas ministry of health does not separate out the numbers or separate out those killed by Hamas failed rocket launches. IDF has stated 2:1 ratio.
Yeah I find that uncompelling based on the demographics of Gaza. It sounds like they’re either counting all adult deaths,
Or all “males of fighting age” deaths. If they have evidence they’re really only killing Hamas fighters they certainly need to release it.
The UN has said the Gaza ministry of health figures are reliable historically, I am not seeing any suggestion that this a different case.
I see no suggestion not to take Hamas numbers with a grain of salt. Israel states that since the End of the Truce it liquidated 2,000 Hamas terrorists. Proof to the contrary?
2,000 is believable. 7,000 less so.
Based on what, exactly? What makes you believe 2,000 vs 7,000? Just curious about what bias you’re applying to your interpretation of data from Hamas … the terrorist organization.
If the IDF hurt one of my children, I regret to say that I'd probably do more than support Hamas. After the IDF has killed and mutilated, displaced, and starved so many Palestinians, I'm surprised that number is as low as 72%.
Yes. This. Israel’s outsized response is only servicing to make Jews less safe worldwide. If you think IDF’s response has been justified based on 1200 deaths and 250 kidnapped victims, just imagine what the Palestinians want to do to Israelis for 20x that amount of suffering.
Wow. What both of you numbskulls conveniently ignore is the FACT that Hamas brutally mutilated, tortured, raped, and murdered, children and other innocent civilians FIRST. Why is it so easy for you to totally twist this narrative? Do you know how insane you sound?
DP
It is a mistake to try to assign a “first” in this conflict. You are correct that Hamas carried out a brutal attack on October 7th, but they didn’t spring into existence on October 6th.
A very interesting article written by an Israeli author.
That's behind a firewall. At any rate, regardless of Jewish settlements, etc. - Israelis have NOT tortured and raped Palestinian women and children. Hamas are monsters. I hope they're eradicated from the face of the earth.
Just a reminder this is the statement categorically denying Israelis have tortured and raped Palestinian women which is precisely what the Israeli justice system says has taken place.
They’ve raped more Palestinian men than the women because they know men don’t ever speak out about such things
Cool story bro. Make wild accusations with no proof, and then give yourself fake cover by saying "you won't hear about it because it's suppressed / people are being bought off / they won't talk to it because of cultural issues" etc.
Here is a report about a 15 year old boy who was raped and was subjected to torture in the genitalia in 2021 by Israeli forces.
This incident has been mentioned in interviews by Josh Paul, who resigned from the US state department earlier this year.
Again for individual reports vs. mass rape event. This is equivalent to when Jeff said about Shani Louk “she had her underwear on”
Ok then say “Israel doesn’t carry out mass rape” and not “Israelis do NOT rape Palestinians”.
Don’t make verifiably false statements and then get defensive when someone tells you they’re false. And really if I were in your shoes I’d take a beat on making either of those claims because we don’t know the full scale of what’s happening right now, and you may find yourself re-defining your parameters for behavior yet again.
You are saying that possibly, Israeli soldiers are mass raping Palestinian women, cutting off breasts, and desecrating the bodies, ie parading their corpses through the streets of Tel Aviv while civilian Israelis are spitting on their dead flesh?
No? I am saying it’s possible there is a larger sexual violence issue with the IDF that we don’t yet know about (due to gag orders and also the lack of reporting from Gaza right now) and so I would continue to advise everyone not to make blanket statements about their behavior which are either verifiably false or have the potential to be proven false later. Stick with what is verifiably true.
The IDF are heroes, and if we had a reasonable leadership in this country people like you blatantly slandering such heroes would be arrested and tried for your crimes.
You believe that it should be a crime in the United States to post verified facts— published by the governments in question— about the conduct of foreign militaries?
They are NOT verified. They were part of a biased opinion piece as shown by the fact that the website has the word ‘Palestine’ in its url.
Posting verifiable facts is not a crime, but terrorizing Jewish people by slandering the IDF is and should be a crime.
It was not an opinion piece but actually a report put out by Defense for Children international- Palestine which is an NGO that works for the rights of children in the West Bank and Gaza.
Shortly after they came out with this report they were designated a terrorist organization by Israel and had their offices raided. Several countries (France, Germany, Sweden among others) said there was no proof of terrorism and would continue to work with them.
This is mentioned in an interview former state department official Josh Paul gave on PBS:
I was part of the human rights vetting process for arms going to Israel. And a charity called Defensive Children
International Palestine drew our attention at the State Department to the sexual assault, actually the rape of a 13-year-old boy that occurred in an
Israeli prison in Moskobiya (ph) in Jerusalem.
We examined these allegations. We believe they were credible. We put them through Israel to the government of Israel. And you know what happened the
next day? The IDF went into the DCIP offices and removed all their computers and declared them a terrorist entity.
So you admit that Israel determined that the group making this allegation was found to be a terrorist organization by Israel, right?
So why should I read their report if they are a terrorist organization? As I said in my first post, it is clearly biased.
Do whatever you want, but Israel has proven time and time again to be the party in this conflict that cannot be trusted, and that cannot sustain integrity in their reporting of what’s occurring in the region.
People without an agenda instinctively laugh aloud when “Israel” and “facts” are mentioned in the same breath. Zero integrity. Zero credibility.
Israel is basically an isolated state on the world stage because countries don’t trust anyone affiliated with the Israeli government. Maybe that will change with a new wave of political leaders in Israel, but right now, Israel is not taken seriously by the rest of the world. Its just not.
DP. Well, we’ve definitely found the nutter. If you replace Hamas for Israel in your post, you’d be 100% correct. Unfortunately, you’re just trolling at this point. Israel has allies all over the world - including the U.S. and other western countries. What’s truly laughable is your inability to admit that Hamas is everything you listed, and worse. I honestly don’t know why I’m expending energy on you. You’re clearly pro-Hamas.
I’m not the poster you’re responding to but think about those allies. Every
One— Every Single One with the glaring exception of the U.S. has called for a ceasefire and condemned the indiscriminate bombing of civilians.
And here’s why: support for Israel’s wholesale killing of civilians is undermining all European credibility when condemning the same from Russia. Putin is laughing all the way to the UNSC knowing the next time there’s an atrocity in Ukraine like Bucha— at which the sexual violence, including against children was in fact comparable to October 7– he can just show the pictures of thousands of dead Palestinian children in their screaming mothers arms and ask why the U.S only cares about killed children when they’re European.
Support for evil acts in one place undermines our ability to oppose it anywhere. The U.S. has a moral duty to stop facilitating this violence against children.
And Israel has a moral duty— and many Israelis believe it has a moral duty— to protect children. Israel has not been successful in targeting Hamas leadership in this campaign, it is time to reassess their tactics and regain the support they’re losing.
DP. Israel has eliminated numerous Hamas leaders. It has four or so in Gaza left to find.
Not nearly as many as they need to in order make a proportional warfare case. Meanwhile they’re literally sitting in Qatar in luxury, while Israel kills children and claims it’s only targeting Hamas— meanwhile Hamas is elsewhere. It’s a horrific optic.
Huh? Hamas is estimated to have up to 30,000 terrorists operating in Gaza. Israel has eliminated at least 9,000 of them to date and taken at least 700 prisoners. Blame Hamas for the optics.
They have not eliminated “at least 9,000” unless your math is that every adult killed in Gaza was “a Hamas fighter”.
They have eliminated very few high value targets. They have admitted this— it’s why they say they will need to operate for months— meanwhile significant leadership of Hamas isn’t in Gaza. They’re killing low value targets and civilians which is why they’ve lost so much support in the last month.
Yet these low value targets would be the ones coming into Israel and blowing up people at bus stops. Should Israel stand by and allow that to keep happening? They can't waltz into Qatar, last I checked.
Or Egypt or Jordan or anywhere else in the surrounding area.
If the IDF hurt one of my children, I regret to say that I'd probably do more than support Hamas. After the IDF has killed and mutilated, displaced, and starved so many Palestinians, I'm surprised that number is as low as 72%.
Yes. This. Israel’s outsized response is only servicing to make Jews less safe worldwide. If you think IDF’s response has been justified based on 1200 deaths and 250 kidnapped victims, just imagine what the Palestinians want to do to Israelis for 20x that amount of suffering.
Wow. What both of you numbskulls conveniently ignore is the FACT that Hamas brutally mutilated, tortured, raped, and murdered, children and other innocent civilians FIRST. Why is it so easy for you to totally twist this narrative? Do you know how insane you sound?
DP
It is a mistake to try to assign a “first” in this conflict. You are correct that Hamas carried out a brutal attack on October 7th, but they didn’t spring into existence on October 6th.
A very interesting article written by an Israeli author.
That's behind a firewall. At any rate, regardless of Jewish settlements, etc. - Israelis have NOT tortured and raped Palestinian women and children. Hamas are monsters. I hope they're eradicated from the face of the earth.
Just a reminder this is the statement categorically denying Israelis have tortured and raped Palestinian women which is precisely what the Israeli justice system says has taken place.
They’ve raped more Palestinian men than the women because they know men don’t ever speak out about such things
Cool story bro. Make wild accusations with no proof, and then give yourself fake cover by saying "you won't hear about it because it's suppressed / people are being bought off / they won't talk to it because of cultural issues" etc.
Here is a report about a 15 year old boy who was raped and was subjected to torture in the genitalia in 2021 by Israeli forces.
This incident has been mentioned in interviews by Josh Paul, who resigned from the US state department earlier this year.
Again for individual reports vs. mass rape event. This is equivalent to when Jeff said about Shani Louk “she had her underwear on”
Ok then say “Israel doesn’t carry out mass rape” and not “Israelis do NOT rape Palestinians”.
Don’t make verifiably false statements and then get defensive when someone tells you they’re false. And really if I were in your shoes I’d take a beat on making either of those claims because we don’t know the full scale of what’s happening right now, and you may find yourself re-defining your parameters for behavior yet again.
You are saying that possibly, Israeli soldiers are mass raping Palestinian women, cutting off breasts, and desecrating the bodies, ie parading their corpses through the streets of Tel Aviv while civilian Israelis are spitting on their dead flesh?
No? I am saying it’s possible there is a larger sexual violence issue with the IDF that we don’t yet know about (due to gag orders and also the lack of reporting from Gaza right now) and so I would continue to advise everyone not to make blanket statements about their behavior which are either verifiably false or have the potential to be proven false later. Stick with what is verifiably true.
The IDF are heroes, and if we had a reasonable leadership in this country people like you blatantly slandering such heroes would be arrested and tried for your crimes.
You believe that it should be a crime in the United States to post verified facts— published by the governments in question— about the conduct of foreign militaries?
They are NOT verified. They were part of a biased opinion piece as shown by the fact that the website has the word ‘Palestine’ in its url.
Posting verifiable facts is not a crime, but terrorizing Jewish people by slandering the IDF is and should be a crime.
It was not an opinion piece but actually a report put out by Defense for Children international- Palestine which is an NGO that works for the rights of children in the West Bank and Gaza.
Shortly after they came out with this report they were designated a terrorist organization by Israel and had their offices raided. Several countries (France, Germany, Sweden among others) said there was no proof of terrorism and would continue to work with them.
This is mentioned in an interview former state department official Josh Paul gave on PBS:
I was part of the human rights vetting process for arms going to Israel. And a charity called Defensive Children
International Palestine drew our attention at the State Department to the sexual assault, actually the rape of a 13-year-old boy that occurred in an
Israeli prison in Moskobiya (ph) in Jerusalem.
We examined these allegations. We believe they were credible. We put them through Israel to the government of Israel. And you know what happened the
next day? The IDF went into the DCIP offices and removed all their computers and declared them a terrorist entity.
So you admit that Israel determined that the group making this allegation was found to be a terrorist organization by Israel, right?
So why should I read their report if they are a terrorist organization? As I said in my first post, it is clearly biased.
Do whatever you want, but Israel has proven time and time again to be the party in this conflict that cannot be trusted, and that cannot sustain integrity in their reporting of what’s occurring in the region.
People without an agenda instinctively laugh aloud when “Israel” and “facts” are mentioned in the same breath. Zero integrity. Zero credibility.
Israel is basically an isolated state on the world stage because countries don’t trust anyone affiliated with the Israeli government. Maybe that will change with a new wave of political leaders in Israel, but right now, Israel is not taken seriously by the rest of the world. Its just not.
DP. Well, we’ve definitely found the nutter. If you replace Hamas for Israel in your post, you’d be 100% correct. Unfortunately, you’re just trolling at this point. Israel has allies all over the world - including the U.S. and other western countries. What’s truly laughable is your inability to admit that Hamas is everything you listed, and worse. I honestly don’t know why I’m expending energy on you. You’re clearly pro-Hamas.
I’m not the poster you’re responding to but think about those allies. Every
One— Every Single One with the glaring exception of the U.S. has called for a ceasefire and condemned the indiscriminate bombing of civilians.
And here’s why: support for Israel’s wholesale killing of civilians is undermining all European credibility when condemning the same from Russia. Putin is laughing all the way to the UNSC knowing the next time there’s an atrocity in Ukraine like Bucha— at which the sexual violence, including against children was in fact comparable to October 7– he can just show the pictures of thousands of dead Palestinian children in their screaming mothers arms and ask why the U.S only cares about killed children when they’re European.
Support for evil acts in one place undermines our ability to oppose it anywhere. The U.S. has a moral duty to stop facilitating this violence against children.
And Israel has a moral duty— and many Israelis believe it has a moral duty— to protect children. Israel has not been successful in targeting Hamas leadership in this campaign, it is time to reassess their tactics and regain the support they’re losing.
DP. Israel has eliminated numerous Hamas leaders. It has four or so in Gaza left to find.
Not nearly as many as they need to in order make a proportional warfare case. Meanwhile they’re literally sitting in Qatar in luxury, while Israel kills children and claims it’s only targeting Hamas— meanwhile Hamas is elsewhere. It’s a horrific optic.
Huh? Hamas is estimated to have up to 30,000 terrorists operating in Gaza. Israel has eliminated at least 9,000 of them to date and taken at least 700 prisoners. Blame Hamas for the optics.
They have not eliminated “at least 9,000” unless your math is that every adult killed in Gaza was “a Hamas fighter”.
They have eliminated very few high value targets. They have admitted this— it’s why they say they will need to operate for months— meanwhile significant leadership of Hamas isn’t in Gaza. They’re killing low value targets and civilians which is why they’ve lost so much support in the last month.
My math is based on the source: 1,000 terrorists eliminated on October 7 and the days immediately following. Add to that 8,000 terrorists subsequently. And that’s a low estimate. Hamas does not include the 8,000 in its numbers.
Ok I’m going to need a citation for these
8,000 uncounted “Hamas fighters”. The 700 captured is reported by the BBC.
Please post the links that differentiate from the 20,000 killed figures. Seriously I cannot find any.
The Hamas ministry of health does not separate out the numbers or separate out those killed by Hamas failed rocket launches. IDF has stated 2:1 ratio.
Yeah I find that uncompelling based on the demographics of Gaza. It sounds like they’re either counting all adult deaths,
Or all “males of fighting age” deaths. If they have evidence they’re really only killing Hamas fighters they certainly need to release it.
The UN has said the Gaza ministry of health figures are reliable historically, I am not seeing any suggestion that this a different case.
I see no suggestion not to take Hamas numbers with a grain of salt. Israel states that since the End of the Truce it liquidated 2,000 Hamas terrorists. Proof to the contrary?
2,000 is believable. 7,000 less so.
So that’s 2,000 since the end of the truce. 6,000 prior to that plus 1,000 on or right after October 7. Seems reasonable.
If the IDF hurt one of my children, I regret to say that I'd probably do more than support Hamas. After the IDF has killed and mutilated, displaced, and starved so many Palestinians, I'm surprised that number is as low as 72%.
Yes. This. Israel’s outsized response is only servicing to make Jews less safe worldwide. If you think IDF’s response has been justified based on 1200 deaths and 250 kidnapped victims, just imagine what the Palestinians want to do to Israelis for 20x that amount of suffering.
Wow. What both of you numbskulls conveniently ignore is the FACT that Hamas brutally mutilated, tortured, raped, and murdered, children and other innocent civilians FIRST. Why is it so easy for you to totally twist this narrative? Do you know how insane you sound?
DP
It is a mistake to try to assign a “first” in this conflict. You are correct that Hamas carried out a brutal attack on October 7th, but they didn’t spring into existence on October 6th.
A very interesting article written by an Israeli author.
That's behind a firewall. At any rate, regardless of Jewish settlements, etc. - Israelis have NOT tortured and raped Palestinian women and children. Hamas are monsters. I hope they're eradicated from the face of the earth.
Just a reminder this is the statement categorically denying Israelis have tortured and raped Palestinian women which is precisely what the Israeli justice system says has taken place.
They’ve raped more Palestinian men than the women because they know men don’t ever speak out about such things
Cool story bro. Make wild accusations with no proof, and then give yourself fake cover by saying "you won't hear about it because it's suppressed / people are being bought off / they won't talk to it because of cultural issues" etc.
Here is a report about a 15 year old boy who was raped and was subjected to torture in the genitalia in 2021 by Israeli forces.
This incident has been mentioned in interviews by Josh Paul, who resigned from the US state department earlier this year.
Again for individual reports vs. mass rape event. This is equivalent to when Jeff said about Shani Louk “she had her underwear on”
Ok then say “Israel doesn’t carry out mass rape” and not “Israelis do NOT rape Palestinians”.
Don’t make verifiably false statements and then get defensive when someone tells you they’re false. And really if I were in your shoes I’d take a beat on making either of those claims because we don’t know the full scale of what’s happening right now, and you may find yourself re-defining your parameters for behavior yet again.
You are saying that possibly, Israeli soldiers are mass raping Palestinian women, cutting off breasts, and desecrating the bodies, ie parading their corpses through the streets of Tel Aviv while civilian Israelis are spitting on their dead flesh?
No? I am saying it’s possible there is a larger sexual violence issue with the IDF that we don’t yet know about (due to gag orders and also the lack of reporting from Gaza right now) and so I would continue to advise everyone not to make blanket statements about their behavior which are either verifiably false or have the potential to be proven false later. Stick with what is verifiably true.
The IDF are heroes, and if we had a reasonable leadership in this country people like you blatantly slandering such heroes would be arrested and tried for your crimes.
You believe that it should be a crime in the United States to post verified facts— published by the governments in question— about the conduct of foreign militaries?
They are NOT verified. They were part of a biased opinion piece as shown by the fact that the website has the word ‘Palestine’ in its url.
Posting verifiable facts is not a crime, but terrorizing Jewish people by slandering the IDF is and should be a crime.
It was not an opinion piece but actually a report put out by Defense for Children international- Palestine which is an NGO that works for the rights of children in the West Bank and Gaza.
Shortly after they came out with this report they were designated a terrorist organization by Israel and had their offices raided. Several countries (France, Germany, Sweden among others) said there was no proof of terrorism and would continue to work with them.
This is mentioned in an interview former state department official Josh Paul gave on PBS:
I was part of the human rights vetting process for arms going to Israel. And a charity called Defensive Children
International Palestine drew our attention at the State Department to the sexual assault, actually the rape of a 13-year-old boy that occurred in an
Israeli prison in Moskobiya (ph) in Jerusalem.
We examined these allegations. We believe they were credible. We put them through Israel to the government of Israel. And you know what happened the
next day? The IDF went into the DCIP offices and removed all their computers and declared them a terrorist entity.
So you admit that Israel determined that the group making this allegation was found to be a terrorist organization by Israel, right?
So why should I read their report if they are a terrorist organization? As I said in my first post, it is clearly biased.
Do whatever you want, but Israel has proven time and time again to be the party in this conflict that cannot be trusted, and that cannot sustain integrity in their reporting of what’s occurring in the region.
People without an agenda instinctively laugh aloud when “Israel” and “facts” are mentioned in the same breath. Zero integrity. Zero credibility.
Israel is basically an isolated state on the world stage because countries don’t trust anyone affiliated with the Israeli government. Maybe that will change with a new wave of political leaders in Israel, but right now, Israel is not taken seriously by the rest of the world. Its just not.
DP. Well, we’ve definitely found the nutter. If you replace Hamas for Israel in your post, you’d be 100% correct. Unfortunately, you’re just trolling at this point. Israel has allies all over the world - including the U.S. and other western countries. What’s truly laughable is your inability to admit that Hamas is everything you listed, and worse. I honestly don’t know why I’m expending energy on you. You’re clearly pro-Hamas.
I’m not the poster you’re responding to but think about those allies. Every
One— Every Single One with the glaring exception of the U.S. has called for a ceasefire and condemned the indiscriminate bombing of civilians.
And here’s why: support for Israel’s wholesale killing of civilians is undermining all European credibility when condemning the same from Russia. Putin is laughing all the way to the UNSC knowing the next time there’s an atrocity in Ukraine like Bucha— at which the sexual violence, including against children was in fact comparable to October 7– he can just show the pictures of thousands of dead Palestinian children in their screaming mothers arms and ask why the U.S only cares about killed children when they’re European.
Support for evil acts in one place undermines our ability to oppose it anywhere. The U.S. has a moral duty to stop facilitating this violence against children.
And Israel has a moral duty— and many Israelis believe it has a moral duty— to protect children. Israel has not been successful in targeting Hamas leadership in this campaign, it is time to reassess their tactics and regain the support they’re losing.
DP. Israel has eliminated numerous Hamas leaders. It has four or so in Gaza left to find.
Not nearly as many as they need to in order make a proportional warfare case. Meanwhile they’re literally sitting in Qatar in luxury, while Israel kills children and claims it’s only targeting Hamas— meanwhile Hamas is elsewhere. It’s a horrific optic.
Huh? Hamas is estimated to have up to 30,000 terrorists operating in Gaza. Israel has eliminated at least 9,000 of them to date and taken at least 700 prisoners. Blame Hamas for the optics.
They have not eliminated “at least 9,000” unless your math is that every adult killed in Gaza was “a Hamas fighter”.
They have eliminated very few high value targets. They have admitted this— it’s why they say they will need to operate for months— meanwhile significant leadership of Hamas isn’t in Gaza. They’re killing low value targets and civilians which is why they’ve lost so much support in the last month.
My math is based on the source: 1,000 terrorists eliminated on October 7 and the days immediately following. Add to that 8,000 terrorists subsequently. And that’s a low estimate. Hamas does not include the 8,000 in its numbers.
Ok I’m going to need a citation for these
8,000 uncounted “Hamas fighters”. The 700 captured is reported by the BBC.
Please post the links that differentiate from the 20,000 killed figures. Seriously I cannot find any.
The Hamas ministry of health does not separate out the numbers or separate out those killed by Hamas failed rocket launches. IDF has stated 2:1 ratio.
There have been no kills by Hamas rockets misfirings. This is just IDF propaganda like the hospital the IDF targeted in the first few days of the war was not a Hamas rocket but an Israel thermobaric weapon.
The reality is any Hamas spokesperson has more credibility vs any Israel spokesperson. Time and time again the Israelis have proven to be incompetent liars.
If the IDF hurt one of my children, I regret to say that I'd probably do more than support Hamas. After the IDF has killed and mutilated, displaced, and starved so many Palestinians, I'm surprised that number is as low as 72%.
Yes. This. Israel’s outsized response is only servicing to make Jews less safe worldwide. If you think IDF’s response has been justified based on 1200 deaths and 250 kidnapped victims, just imagine what the Palestinians want to do to Israelis for 20x that amount of suffering.
Wow. What both of you numbskulls conveniently ignore is the FACT that Hamas brutally mutilated, tortured, raped, and murdered, children and other innocent civilians FIRST. Why is it so easy for you to totally twist this narrative? Do you know how insane you sound?
DP
It is a mistake to try to assign a “first” in this conflict. You are correct that Hamas carried out a brutal attack on October 7th, but they didn’t spring into existence on October 6th.
A very interesting article written by an Israeli author.
That's behind a firewall. At any rate, regardless of Jewish settlements, etc. - Israelis have NOT tortured and raped Palestinian women and children. Hamas are monsters. I hope they're eradicated from the face of the earth.
Just a reminder this is the statement categorically denying Israelis have tortured and raped Palestinian women which is precisely what the Israeli justice system says has taken place.
They’ve raped more Palestinian men than the women because they know men don’t ever speak out about such things
Cool story bro. Make wild accusations with no proof, and then give yourself fake cover by saying "you won't hear about it because it's suppressed / people are being bought off / they won't talk to it because of cultural issues" etc.
Here is a report about a 15 year old boy who was raped and was subjected to torture in the genitalia in 2021 by Israeli forces.
This incident has been mentioned in interviews by Josh Paul, who resigned from the US state department earlier this year.
Again for individual reports vs. mass rape event. This is equivalent to when Jeff said about Shani Louk “she had her underwear on”
Ok then say “Israel doesn’t carry out mass rape” and not “Israelis do NOT rape Palestinians”.
Don’t make verifiably false statements and then get defensive when someone tells you they’re false. And really if I were in your shoes I’d take a beat on making either of those claims because we don’t know the full scale of what’s happening right now, and you may find yourself re-defining your parameters for behavior yet again.
You are saying that possibly, Israeli soldiers are mass raping Palestinian women, cutting off breasts, and desecrating the bodies, ie parading their corpses through the streets of Tel Aviv while civilian Israelis are spitting on their dead flesh?
No? I am saying it’s possible there is a larger sexual violence issue with the IDF that we don’t yet know about (due to gag orders and also the lack of reporting from Gaza right now) and so I would continue to advise everyone not to make blanket statements about their behavior which are either verifiably false or have the potential to be proven false later. Stick with what is verifiably true.
The IDF are heroes, and if we had a reasonable leadership in this country people like you blatantly slandering such heroes would be arrested and tried for your crimes.
You believe that it should be a crime in the United States to post verified facts— published by the governments in question— about the conduct of foreign militaries?
They are NOT verified. They were part of a biased opinion piece as shown by the fact that the website has the word ‘Palestine’ in its url.
Posting verifiable facts is not a crime, but terrorizing Jewish people by slandering the IDF is and should be a crime.
It was not an opinion piece but actually a report put out by Defense for Children international- Palestine which is an NGO that works for the rights of children in the West Bank and Gaza.
Shortly after they came out with this report they were designated a terrorist organization by Israel and had their offices raided. Several countries (France, Germany, Sweden among others) said there was no proof of terrorism and would continue to work with them.
This is mentioned in an interview former state department official Josh Paul gave on PBS:
I was part of the human rights vetting process for arms going to Israel. And a charity called Defensive Children
International Palestine drew our attention at the State Department to the sexual assault, actually the rape of a 13-year-old boy that occurred in an
Israeli prison in Moskobiya (ph) in Jerusalem.
We examined these allegations. We believe they were credible. We put them through Israel to the government of Israel. And you know what happened the
next day? The IDF went into the DCIP offices and removed all their computers and declared them a terrorist entity.
So you admit that Israel determined that the group making this allegation was found to be a terrorist organization by Israel, right?
So why should I read their report if they are a terrorist organization? As I said in my first post, it is clearly biased.
Do whatever you want, but Israel has proven time and time again to be the party in this conflict that cannot be trusted, and that cannot sustain integrity in their reporting of what’s occurring in the region.
People without an agenda instinctively laugh aloud when “Israel” and “facts” are mentioned in the same breath. Zero integrity. Zero credibility.
Israel is basically an isolated state on the world stage because countries don’t trust anyone affiliated with the Israeli government. Maybe that will change with a new wave of political leaders in Israel, but right now, Israel is not taken seriously by the rest of the world. Its just not.
DP. Well, we’ve definitely found the nutter. If you replace Hamas for Israel in your post, you’d be 100% correct. Unfortunately, you’re just trolling at this point. Israel has allies all over the world - including the U.S. and other western countries. What’s truly laughable is your inability to admit that Hamas is everything you listed, and worse. I honestly don’t know why I’m expending energy on you. You’re clearly pro-Hamas.
I’m not the poster you’re responding to but think about those allies. Every
One— Every Single One with the glaring exception of the U.S. has called for a ceasefire and condemned the indiscriminate bombing of civilians.
And here’s why: support for Israel’s wholesale killing of civilians is undermining all European credibility when condemning the same from Russia. Putin is laughing all the way to the UNSC knowing the next time there’s an atrocity in Ukraine like Bucha— at which the sexual violence, including against children was in fact comparable to October 7– he can just show the pictures of thousands of dead Palestinian children in their screaming mothers arms and ask why the U.S only cares about killed children when they’re European.
Support for evil acts in one place undermines our ability to oppose it anywhere. The U.S. has a moral duty to stop facilitating this violence against children.
And Israel has a moral duty— and many Israelis believe it has a moral duty— to protect children. Israel has not been successful in targeting Hamas leadership in this campaign, it is time to reassess their tactics and regain the support they’re losing.
DP. Israel has eliminated numerous Hamas leaders. It has four or so in Gaza left to find.
Not nearly as many as they need to in order make a proportional warfare case. Meanwhile they’re literally sitting in Qatar in luxury, while Israel kills children and claims it’s only targeting Hamas— meanwhile Hamas is elsewhere. It’s a horrific optic.
Huh? Hamas is estimated to have up to 30,000 terrorists operating in Gaza. Israel has eliminated at least 9,000 of them to date and taken at least 700 prisoners. Blame Hamas for the optics.
They have not eliminated “at least 9,000” unless your math is that every adult killed in Gaza was “a Hamas fighter”.
They have eliminated very few high value targets. They have admitted this— it’s why they say they will need to operate for months— meanwhile significant leadership of Hamas isn’t in Gaza. They’re killing low value targets and civilians which is why they’ve lost so much support in the last month.
My math is based on the source: 1,000 terrorists eliminated on October 7 and the days immediately following. Add to that 8,000 terrorists subsequently. And that’s a low estimate. Hamas does not include the 8,000 in its numbers.
Ok I’m going to need a citation for these
8,000 uncounted “Hamas fighters”. The 700 captured is reported by the BBC.
Please post the links that differentiate from the 20,000 killed figures. Seriously I cannot find any.
The Hamas ministry of health does not separate out the numbers or separate out those killed by Hamas failed rocket launches. IDF has stated 2:1 ratio.
Yeah I find that uncompelling based on the demographics of Gaza. It sounds like they’re either counting all adult deaths,
Or all “males of fighting age” deaths. If they have evidence they’re really only killing Hamas fighters they certainly need to release it.
The UN has said the Gaza ministry of health figures are reliable historically, I am not seeing any suggestion that this a different case.
I see no suggestion not to take Hamas numbers with a grain of salt. Israel states that since the End of the Truce it liquidated 2,000 Hamas terrorists. Proof to the contrary?
2,000 is believable. 7,000 less so.
Based on what, exactly? What makes you believe 2,000 vs 7,000? Just curious about what bias you’re applying to your interpretation of data from Hamas … the terrorist organization.
Following the UN guidance that historical figures from Gaza have been reliable— and the UN is not a terrorist organization— and working backward. The agreed demographics of Gaza (agreed by Israel even) skew extremely young. So to get to 7,000 you have to assume that virtually every adult killed of the 20,000 fatalities was a Hamas fighter. Which doesn’t make a lot of sense because parents do not tend to leave their children alone— it’s not likely you have fatality numbers that are only children and fighters.
If the IDF hurt one of my children, I regret to say that I'd probably do more than support Hamas. After the IDF has killed and mutilated, displaced, and starved so many Palestinians, I'm surprised that number is as low as 72%.
Yes. This. Israel’s outsized response is only servicing to make Jews less safe worldwide. If you think IDF’s response has been justified based on 1200 deaths and 250 kidnapped victims, just imagine what the Palestinians want to do to Israelis for 20x that amount of suffering.
Wow. What both of you numbskulls conveniently ignore is the FACT that Hamas brutally mutilated, tortured, raped, and murdered, children and other innocent civilians FIRST. Why is it so easy for you to totally twist this narrative? Do you know how insane you sound?
DP
It is a mistake to try to assign a “first” in this conflict. You are correct that Hamas carried out a brutal attack on October 7th, but they didn’t spring into existence on October 6th.
A very interesting article written by an Israeli author.
That's behind a firewall. At any rate, regardless of Jewish settlements, etc. - Israelis have NOT tortured and raped Palestinian women and children. Hamas are monsters. I hope they're eradicated from the face of the earth.
Just a reminder this is the statement categorically denying Israelis have tortured and raped Palestinian women which is precisely what the Israeli justice system says has taken place.
They’ve raped more Palestinian men than the women because they know men don’t ever speak out about such things
Cool story bro. Make wild accusations with no proof, and then give yourself fake cover by saying "you won't hear about it because it's suppressed / people are being bought off / they won't talk to it because of cultural issues" etc.
Here is a report about a 15 year old boy who was raped and was subjected to torture in the genitalia in 2021 by Israeli forces.
This incident has been mentioned in interviews by Josh Paul, who resigned from the US state department earlier this year.
Again for individual reports vs. mass rape event. This is equivalent to when Jeff said about Shani Louk “she had her underwear on”
Ok then say “Israel doesn’t carry out mass rape” and not “Israelis do NOT rape Palestinians”.
Don’t make verifiably false statements and then get defensive when someone tells you they’re false. And really if I were in your shoes I’d take a beat on making either of those claims because we don’t know the full scale of what’s happening right now, and you may find yourself re-defining your parameters for behavior yet again.
You are saying that possibly, Israeli soldiers are mass raping Palestinian women, cutting off breasts, and desecrating the bodies, ie parading their corpses through the streets of Tel Aviv while civilian Israelis are spitting on their dead flesh?
No? I am saying it’s possible there is a larger sexual violence issue with the IDF that we don’t yet know about (due to gag orders and also the lack of reporting from Gaza right now) and so I would continue to advise everyone not to make blanket statements about their behavior which are either verifiably false or have the potential to be proven false later. Stick with what is verifiably true.
The IDF are heroes, and if we had a reasonable leadership in this country people like you blatantly slandering such heroes would be arrested and tried for your crimes.
You believe that it should be a crime in the United States to post verified facts— published by the governments in question— about the conduct of foreign militaries?
They are NOT verified. They were part of a biased opinion piece as shown by the fact that the website has the word ‘Palestine’ in its url.
Posting verifiable facts is not a crime, but terrorizing Jewish people by slandering the IDF is and should be a crime.
It was not an opinion piece but actually a report put out by Defense for Children international- Palestine which is an NGO that works for the rights of children in the West Bank and Gaza.
Shortly after they came out with this report they were designated a terrorist organization by Israel and had their offices raided. Several countries (France, Germany, Sweden among others) said there was no proof of terrorism and would continue to work with them.
This is mentioned in an interview former state department official Josh Paul gave on PBS:
I was part of the human rights vetting process for arms going to Israel. And a charity called Defensive Children
International Palestine drew our attention at the State Department to the sexual assault, actually the rape of a 13-year-old boy that occurred in an
Israeli prison in Moskobiya (ph) in Jerusalem.
We examined these allegations. We believe they were credible. We put them through Israel to the government of Israel. And you know what happened the
next day? The IDF went into the DCIP offices and removed all their computers and declared them a terrorist entity.
So you admit that Israel determined that the group making this allegation was found to be a terrorist organization by Israel, right?
So why should I read their report if they are a terrorist organization? As I said in my first post, it is clearly biased.
Do whatever you want, but Israel has proven time and time again to be the party in this conflict that cannot be trusted, and that cannot sustain integrity in their reporting of what’s occurring in the region.
People without an agenda instinctively laugh aloud when “Israel” and “facts” are mentioned in the same breath. Zero integrity. Zero credibility.
Israel is basically an isolated state on the world stage because countries don’t trust anyone affiliated with the Israeli government. Maybe that will change with a new wave of political leaders in Israel, but right now, Israel is not taken seriously by the rest of the world. Its just not.
DP. Well, we’ve definitely found the nutter. If you replace Hamas for Israel in your post, you’d be 100% correct. Unfortunately, you’re just trolling at this point. Israel has allies all over the world - including the U.S. and other western countries. What’s truly laughable is your inability to admit that Hamas is everything you listed, and worse. I honestly don’t know why I’m expending energy on you. You’re clearly pro-Hamas.
I’m not the poster you’re responding to but think about those allies. Every
One— Every Single One with the glaring exception of the U.S. has called for a ceasefire and condemned the indiscriminate bombing of civilians.
And here’s why: support for Israel’s wholesale killing of civilians is undermining all European credibility when condemning the same from Russia. Putin is laughing all the way to the UNSC knowing the next time there’s an atrocity in Ukraine like Bucha— at which the sexual violence, including against children was in fact comparable to October 7– he can just show the pictures of thousands of dead Palestinian children in their screaming mothers arms and ask why the U.S only cares about killed children when they’re European.
Support for evil acts in one place undermines our ability to oppose it anywhere. The U.S. has a moral duty to stop facilitating this violence against children.
And Israel has a moral duty— and many Israelis believe it has a moral duty— to protect children. Israel has not been successful in targeting Hamas leadership in this campaign, it is time to reassess their tactics and regain the support they’re losing.
DP. Israel has eliminated numerous Hamas leaders. It has four or so in Gaza left to find.
DP. Israel is creating the next generation of Palestinian terrorists. Any surviving Palestinian is going to hate Israel even more after this current battle is over.
IDF uncovered children’s Hamas military uniforms and Hamas uses children for tactical military purposes. And vile anti-Jewish hatred is taught in Gaza schools. It’s a tough bar to top!
You mean like JROTC uniforms? I can’t imagine growing up in a refugee camp hating the country that stole your family’s land- it’s just shocking
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