Gaza War, Part 3

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:did anyone see the new survey that shows 72% of palestinians support Hamas's actions on Oct 7? https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/21/middleeast/palestinians-back-hamas-survey-intl-cmd/index.html

If the IDF hurt one of my children, I regret to say that I'd probably do more than support Hamas. After the IDF has killed and mutilated, displaced, and starved so many Palestinians, I'm surprised that number is as low as 72%.

Yes. This. Israel’s outsized response is only servicing to make Jews less safe worldwide. If you think IDF’s response has been justified based on 1200 deaths and 250 kidnapped victims, just imagine what the Palestinians want to do to Israelis for 20x that amount of suffering.

Wow. What both of you numbskulls conveniently ignore is the FACT that Hamas brutally mutilated, tortured, raped, and murdered, children and other innocent civilians FIRST. Why is it so easy for you to totally twist this narrative? Do you know how insane you sound?
DP

It is a mistake to try to assign a “first” in this conflict. You are correct that Hamas carried out a brutal attack on October 7th, but they didn’t spring into existence on October 6th.

https://prospect.org/world/2023-10-20-west-bank-settlements-conflict-gaza/

A very interesting article written by an Israeli author.

That's behind a firewall. At any rate, regardless of Jewish settlements, etc. - Israelis have NOT tortured and raped Palestinian women and children. Hamas are monsters. I hope they're eradicated from the face of the earth.

Just a reminder this is the statement categorically denying Israelis have tortured and raped Palestinian women which is precisely what the Israeli justice system says has taken place.

They’ve raped more Palestinian men than the women because they know men don’t ever speak out about such things

Cool story bro. Make wild accusations with no proof, and then give yourself fake cover by saying "you won't hear about it because it's suppressed / people are being bought off / they won't talk to it because of cultural issues" etc.

Here is a report about a 15 year old boy who was raped and was subjected to torture in the genitalia in 2021 by Israeli forces.

This incident has been mentioned in interviews by Josh Paul, who resigned from the US state department earlier this year.

https://www.dci-palestine.org/israeli_interrogator_sexually_assaults_palestinian_child_detainee

Again for individual reports vs. mass rape event. This is equivalent to when Jeff said about Shani Louk “she had her underwear on”

Ok then say “Israel doesn’t carry out mass rape” and not “Israelis do NOT rape Palestinians”.

Don’t make verifiably false statements and then get defensive when someone tells you they’re false. And really if I were in your shoes I’d take a beat on making either of those claims because we don’t know the full scale of what’s happening right now, and you may find yourself re-defining your parameters for behavior yet again.

You are saying that possibly, Israeli soldiers are mass raping Palestinian women, cutting off breasts, and desecrating the bodies, ie parading their corpses through the streets of Tel Aviv while civilian Israelis are spitting on their dead flesh?

No? I am saying it’s possible there is a larger sexual violence issue with the IDF that we don’t yet know about (due to gag orders and also the lack of reporting from Gaza right now) and so I would continue to advise everyone not to make blanket statements about their behavior which are either verifiably false or have the potential to be proven false later. Stick with what is verifiably true.

The IDF are heroes, and if we had a reasonable leadership in this country people like you blatantly slandering such heroes would be arrested and tried for your crimes.

You believe that it should be a crime in the United States to post verified facts— published by the governments in question— about the conduct of foreign militaries?

They are NOT verified. They were part of a biased opinion piece as shown by the fact that the website has the word ‘Palestine’ in its url.

Posting verifiable facts is not a crime, but terrorizing Jewish people by slandering the IDF is and should be a crime.

It was not an opinion piece but actually a report put out by Defense for Children international- Palestine which is an NGO that works for the rights of children in the West Bank and Gaza.

Shortly after they came out with this report they were designated a terrorist organization by Israel and had their offices raided. Several countries (France, Germany, Sweden among others) said there was no proof of terrorism and would continue to work with them.

This is mentioned in an interview former state department official Josh Paul gave on PBS:

I was part of the human rights vetting process for arms going to Israel. And a charity called Defensive Children

International Palestine drew our attention at the State Department to the sexual assault, actually the rape of a 13-year-old boy that occurred in an

Israeli prison in Moskobiya (ph) in Jerusalem.

We examined these allegations. We believe they were credible. We put them through Israel to the government of Israel. And you know what happened the

next day? The IDF went into the DCIP offices and removed all their computers and declared them a terrorist entity.

Here is the report again:
https://www.dci-palestine.org/israeli_interrogator_sexually_assaults_palestinian_child_detainee

Here is the Josh Paul interview:

https://www.pbs.org/wnet/amanpour-and-company/video/fmr-state-dept-official-on-his-decision-to-leave-after-oct-7-2/

So you admit that Israel determined that the group making this allegation was found to be a terrorist organization by Israel, right?

So why should I read their report if they are a terrorist organization? As I said in my first post, it is clearly biased.

Do whatever you want, but Israel has proven time and time again to be the party in this conflict that cannot be trusted, and that cannot sustain integrity in their reporting of what’s occurring in the region.

People without an agenda instinctively laugh aloud when “Israel” and “facts” are mentioned in the same breath. Zero integrity. Zero credibility.

Israel is basically an isolated state on the world stage because countries don’t trust anyone affiliated with the Israeli government. Maybe that will change with a new wave of political leaders in Israel, but right now, Israel is not taken seriously by the rest of the world. Its just not.

DP. Well, we’ve definitely found the nutter. If you replace Hamas for Israel in your post, you’d be 100% correct. Unfortunately, you’re just trolling at this point. Israel has allies all over the world - including the U.S. and other western countries. What’s truly laughable is your inability to admit that Hamas is everything you listed, and worse. I honestly don’t know why I’m expending energy on you. You’re clearly pro-Hamas.

I’m not the poster you’re responding to but think about those allies. Every
One— Every Single One with the glaring exception of the U.S. has called for a ceasefire and condemned the indiscriminate bombing of civilians.

And here’s why: support for Israel’s wholesale killing of civilians is undermining all European credibility when condemning the same from Russia. Putin is laughing all the way to the UNSC knowing the next time there’s an atrocity in Ukraine like Bucha— at which the sexual violence, including against children was in fact comparable to October 7– he can just show the pictures of thousands of dead Palestinian children in their screaming mothers arms and ask why the U.S only cares about killed children when they’re European.

Support for evil acts in one place undermines our ability to oppose it anywhere. The U.S. has a moral duty to stop facilitating this violence against children.

And Israel has a moral duty— and many Israelis believe it has a moral duty— to protect children. Israel has not been successful in targeting Hamas leadership in this campaign, it is time to reassess their tactics and regain the support they’re losing.

[Anonymous]

Israel is no stranger to not having support from any country other than the US. It has been that way since 1968. So, it will press on with its campaign regardless of the haters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:did anyone see the new survey that shows 72% of palestinians support Hamas's actions on Oct 7? https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/21/middleeast/palestinians-back-hamas-survey-intl-cmd/index.html

If the IDF hurt one of my children, I regret to say that I'd probably do more than support Hamas. After the IDF has killed and mutilated, displaced, and starved so many Palestinians, I'm surprised that number is as low as 72%.

Yes. This. Israel’s outsized response is only servicing to make Jews less safe worldwide. If you think IDF’s response has been justified based on 1200 deaths and 250 kidnapped victims, just imagine what the Palestinians want to do to Israelis for 20x that amount of suffering.

Wow. What both of you numbskulls conveniently ignore is the FACT that Hamas brutally mutilated, tortured, raped, and murdered, children and other innocent civilians FIRST. Why is it so easy for you to totally twist this narrative? Do you know how insane you sound?
DP

It is a mistake to try to assign a “first” in this conflict. You are correct that Hamas carried out a brutal attack on October 7th, but they didn’t spring into existence on October 6th.

https://prospect.org/world/2023-10-20-west-bank-settlements-conflict-gaza/

A very interesting article written by an Israeli author.

That's behind a firewall. At any rate, regardless of Jewish settlements, etc. - Israelis have NOT tortured and raped Palestinian women and children. Hamas are monsters. I hope they're eradicated from the face of the earth.

Just a reminder this is the statement categorically denying Israelis have tortured and raped Palestinian women which is precisely what the Israeli justice system says has taken place.

They’ve raped more Palestinian men than the women because they know men don’t ever speak out about such things

Cool story bro. Make wild accusations with no proof, and then give yourself fake cover by saying "you won't hear about it because it's suppressed / people are being bought off / they won't talk to it because of cultural issues" etc.

Here is a report about a 15 year old boy who was raped and was subjected to torture in the genitalia in 2021 by Israeli forces.

This incident has been mentioned in interviews by Josh Paul, who resigned from the US state department earlier this year.

https://www.dci-palestine.org/israeli_interrogator_sexually_assaults_palestinian_child_detainee

Again for individual reports vs. mass rape event. This is equivalent to when Jeff said about Shani Louk “she had her underwear on”

Ok then say “Israel doesn’t carry out mass rape” and not “Israelis do NOT rape Palestinians”.

Don’t make verifiably false statements and then get defensive when someone tells you they’re false. And really if I were in your shoes I’d take a beat on making either of those claims because we don’t know the full scale of what’s happening right now, and you may find yourself re-defining your parameters for behavior yet again.

You are saying that possibly, Israeli soldiers are mass raping Palestinian women, cutting off breasts, and desecrating the bodies, ie parading their corpses through the streets of Tel Aviv while civilian Israelis are spitting on their dead flesh?

No? I am saying it’s possible there is a larger sexual violence issue with the IDF that we don’t yet know about (due to gag orders and also the lack of reporting from Gaza right now) and so I would continue to advise everyone not to make blanket statements about their behavior which are either verifiably false or have the potential to be proven false later. Stick with what is verifiably true.

The IDF are heroes, and if we had a reasonable leadership in this country people like you blatantly slandering such heroes would be arrested and tried for your crimes.

You believe that it should be a crime in the United States to post verified facts— published by the governments in question— about the conduct of foreign militaries?

They are NOT verified. They were part of a biased opinion piece as shown by the fact that the website has the word ‘Palestine’ in its url.

Posting verifiable facts is not a crime, but terrorizing Jewish people by slandering the IDF is and should be a crime.

It was not an opinion piece but actually a report put out by Defense for Children international- Palestine which is an NGO that works for the rights of children in the West Bank and Gaza.

Shortly after they came out with this report they were designated a terrorist organization by Israel and had their offices raided. Several countries (France, Germany, Sweden among others) said there was no proof of terrorism and would continue to work with them.

This is mentioned in an interview former state department official Josh Paul gave on PBS:

I was part of the human rights vetting process for arms going to Israel. And a charity called Defensive Children

International Palestine drew our attention at the State Department to the sexual assault, actually the rape of a 13-year-old boy that occurred in an

Israeli prison in Moskobiya (ph) in Jerusalem.

We examined these allegations. We believe they were credible. We put them through Israel to the government of Israel. And you know what happened the

next day? The IDF went into the DCIP offices and removed all their computers and declared them a terrorist entity.

Here is the report again:
https://www.dci-palestine.org/israeli_interrogator_sexually_assaults_palestinian_child_detainee

Here is the Josh Paul interview:

https://www.pbs.org/wnet/amanpour-and-company/video/fmr-state-dept-official-on-his-decision-to-leave-after-oct-7-2/

So you admit that Israel determined that the group making this allegation was found to be a terrorist organization by Israel, right?

So why should I read their report if they are a terrorist organization? As I said in my first post, it is clearly biased.

Do whatever you want, but Israel has proven time and time again to be the party in this conflict that cannot be trusted, and that cannot sustain integrity in their reporting of what’s occurring in the region.

People without an agenda instinctively laugh aloud when “Israel” and “facts” are mentioned in the same breath. Zero integrity. Zero credibility.

Israel is basically an isolated state on the world stage because countries don’t trust anyone affiliated with the Israeli government. Maybe that will change with a new wave of political leaders in Israel, but right now, Israel is not taken seriously by the rest of the world. Its just not.

DP. Well, we’ve definitely found the nutter. If you replace Hamas for Israel in your post, you’d be 100% correct. Unfortunately, you’re just trolling at this point. Israel has allies all over the world - including the U.S. and other western countries. What’s truly laughable is your inability to admit that Hamas is everything you listed, and worse. I honestly don’t know why I’m expending energy on you. You’re clearly pro-Hamas.

I’m not the poster you’re responding to but think about those allies. Every
One— Every Single One with the glaring exception of the U.S. has called for a ceasefire and condemned the indiscriminate bombing of civilians.

And here’s why: support for Israel’s wholesale killing of civilians is undermining all European credibility when condemning the same from Russia. Putin is laughing all the way to the UNSC knowing the next time there’s an atrocity in Ukraine like Bucha— at which the sexual violence, including against children was in fact comparable to October 7– he can just show the pictures of thousands of dead Palestinian children in their screaming mothers arms and ask why the U.S only cares about killed children when they’re European.

Support for evil acts in one place undermines our ability to oppose it anywhere. The U.S. has a moral duty to stop facilitating this violence against children.

And Israel has a moral duty— and many Israelis believe it has a moral duty— to protect children. Israel has not been successful in targeting Hamas leadership in this campaign, it is time to reassess their tactics and regain the support they’re losing.

DP. Israel has eliminated numerous Hamas leaders. It has four or so in Gaza left to find.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:did anyone see the new survey that shows 72% of palestinians support Hamas's actions on Oct 7? https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/21/middleeast/palestinians-back-hamas-survey-intl-cmd/index.html

If the IDF hurt one of my children, I regret to say that I'd probably do more than support Hamas. After the IDF has killed and mutilated, displaced, and starved so many Palestinians, I'm surprised that number is as low as 72%.

Yes. This. Israel’s outsized response is only servicing to make Jews less safe worldwide. If you think IDF’s response has been justified based on 1200 deaths and 250 kidnapped victims, just imagine what the Palestinians want to do to Israelis for 20x that amount of suffering.

Wow. What both of you numbskulls conveniently ignore is the FACT that Hamas brutally mutilated, tortured, raped, and murdered, children and other innocent civilians FIRST. Why is it so easy for you to totally twist this narrative? Do you know how insane you sound?
DP

It is a mistake to try to assign a “first” in this conflict. You are correct that Hamas carried out a brutal attack on October 7th, but they didn’t spring into existence on October 6th.

https://prospect.org/world/2023-10-20-west-bank-settlements-conflict-gaza/

A very interesting article written by an Israeli author.

That's behind a firewall. At any rate, regardless of Jewish settlements, etc. - Israelis have NOT tortured and raped Palestinian women and children. Hamas are monsters. I hope they're eradicated from the face of the earth.

Just a reminder this is the statement categorically denying Israelis have tortured and raped Palestinian women which is precisely what the Israeli justice system says has taken place.

They’ve raped more Palestinian men than the women because they know men don’t ever speak out about such things

Cool story bro. Make wild accusations with no proof, and then give yourself fake cover by saying "you won't hear about it because it's suppressed / people are being bought off / they won't talk to it because of cultural issues" etc.

Here is a report about a 15 year old boy who was raped and was subjected to torture in the genitalia in 2021 by Israeli forces.

This incident has been mentioned in interviews by Josh Paul, who resigned from the US state department earlier this year.

https://www.dci-palestine.org/israeli_interrogator_sexually_assaults_palestinian_child_detainee

Again for individual reports vs. mass rape event. This is equivalent to when Jeff said about Shani Louk “she had her underwear on”

Ok then say “Israel doesn’t carry out mass rape” and not “Israelis do NOT rape Palestinians”.

Don’t make verifiably false statements and then get defensive when someone tells you they’re false. And really if I were in your shoes I’d take a beat on making either of those claims because we don’t know the full scale of what’s happening right now, and you may find yourself re-defining your parameters for behavior yet again.

You are saying that possibly, Israeli soldiers are mass raping Palestinian women, cutting off breasts, and desecrating the bodies, ie parading their corpses through the streets of Tel Aviv while civilian Israelis are spitting on their dead flesh?

No? I am saying it’s possible there is a larger sexual violence issue with the IDF that we don’t yet know about (due to gag orders and also the lack of reporting from Gaza right now) and so I would continue to advise everyone not to make blanket statements about their behavior which are either verifiably false or have the potential to be proven false later. Stick with what is verifiably true.

The IDF are heroes, and if we had a reasonable leadership in this country people like you blatantly slandering such heroes would be arrested and tried for your crimes.

You believe that it should be a crime in the United States to post verified facts— published by the governments in question— about the conduct of foreign militaries?

They are NOT verified. They were part of a biased opinion piece as shown by the fact that the website has the word ‘Palestine’ in its url.

Posting verifiable facts is not a crime, but terrorizing Jewish people by slandering the IDF is and should be a crime.

It was not an opinion piece but actually a report put out by Defense for Children international- Palestine which is an NGO that works for the rights of children in the West Bank and Gaza.

Shortly after they came out with this report they were designated a terrorist organization by Israel and had their offices raided. Several countries (France, Germany, Sweden among others) said there was no proof of terrorism and would continue to work with them.

This is mentioned in an interview former state department official Josh Paul gave on PBS:

I was part of the human rights vetting process for arms going to Israel. And a charity called Defensive Children

International Palestine drew our attention at the State Department to the sexual assault, actually the rape of a 13-year-old boy that occurred in an

Israeli prison in Moskobiya (ph) in Jerusalem.

We examined these allegations. We believe they were credible. We put them through Israel to the government of Israel. And you know what happened the

next day? The IDF went into the DCIP offices and removed all their computers and declared them a terrorist entity.

Here is the report again:
https://www.dci-palestine.org/israeli_interrogator_sexually_assaults_palestinian_child_detainee

Here is the Josh Paul interview:

https://www.pbs.org/wnet/amanpour-and-company/video/fmr-state-dept-official-on-his-decision-to-leave-after-oct-7-2/

So you admit that Israel determined that the group making this allegation was found to be a terrorist organization by Israel, right?

So why should I read their report if they are a terrorist organization? As I said in my first post, it is clearly biased.

Do whatever you want, but Israel has proven time and time again to be the party in this conflict that cannot be trusted, and that cannot sustain integrity in their reporting of what’s occurring in the region.

People without an agenda instinctively laugh aloud when “Israel” and “facts” are mentioned in the same breath. Zero integrity. Zero credibility.

Israel is basically an isolated state on the world stage because countries don’t trust anyone affiliated with the Israeli government. Maybe that will change with a new wave of political leaders in Israel, but right now, Israel is not taken seriously by the rest of the world. Its just not.

DP. Well, we’ve definitely found the nutter. If you replace Hamas for Israel in your post, you’d be 100% correct. Unfortunately, you’re just trolling at this point. Israel has allies all over the world - including the U.S. and other western countries. What’s truly laughable is your inability to admit that Hamas is everything you listed, and worse. I honestly don’t know why I’m expending energy on you. You’re clearly pro-Hamas.

I’m not the poster you’re responding to but think about those allies. Every
One— Every Single One with the glaring exception of the U.S. has called for a ceasefire and condemned the indiscriminate bombing of civilians.

And here’s why: support for Israel’s wholesale killing of civilians is undermining all European credibility when condemning the same from Russia. Putin is laughing all the way to the UNSC knowing the next time there’s an atrocity in Ukraine like Bucha— at which the sexual violence, including against children was in fact comparable to October 7– he can just show the pictures of thousands of dead Palestinian children in their screaming mothers arms and ask why the U.S only cares about killed children when they’re European.

Support for evil acts in one place undermines our ability to oppose it anywhere. The U.S. has a moral duty to stop facilitating this violence against children.

And Israel has a moral duty— and many Israelis believe it has a moral duty— to protect children. Israel has not been successful in targeting Hamas leadership in this campaign, it is time to reassess their tactics and regain the support they’re losing.

DP. Israel has eliminated numerous Hamas leaders. It has four or so in Gaza left to find.

lol only took twenty thousand dead. Maybe IDF would do better to stop fighting innocent snowglobes or dedicating blown-up buildings to two-year olds. I’m sure little Ella will miss her daddy but #thatslife.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:did anyone see the new survey that shows 72% of palestinians support Hamas's actions on Oct 7? https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/21/middleeast/palestinians-back-hamas-survey-intl-cmd/index.html

If the IDF hurt one of my children, I regret to say that I'd probably do more than support Hamas. After the IDF has killed and mutilated, displaced, and starved so many Palestinians, I'm surprised that number is as low as 72%.

Yes. This. Israel’s outsized response is only servicing to make Jews less safe worldwide. If you think IDF’s response has been justified based on 1200 deaths and 250 kidnapped victims, just imagine what the Palestinians want to do to Israelis for 20x that amount of suffering.

Wow. What both of you numbskulls conveniently ignore is the FACT that Hamas brutally mutilated, tortured, raped, and murdered, children and other innocent civilians FIRST. Why is it so easy for you to totally twist this narrative? Do you know how insane you sound?
DP

It is a mistake to try to assign a “first” in this conflict. You are correct that Hamas carried out a brutal attack on October 7th, but they didn’t spring into existence on October 6th.

https://prospect.org/world/2023-10-20-west-bank-settlements-conflict-gaza/

A very interesting article written by an Israeli author.

That's behind a firewall. At any rate, regardless of Jewish settlements, etc. - Israelis have NOT tortured and raped Palestinian women and children. Hamas are monsters. I hope they're eradicated from the face of the earth.

Just a reminder this is the statement categorically denying Israelis have tortured and raped Palestinian women which is precisely what the Israeli justice system says has taken place.

They’ve raped more Palestinian men than the women because they know men don’t ever speak out about such things

Cool story bro. Make wild accusations with no proof, and then give yourself fake cover by saying "you won't hear about it because it's suppressed / people are being bought off / they won't talk to it because of cultural issues" etc.

Here is a report about a 15 year old boy who was raped and was subjected to torture in the genitalia in 2021 by Israeli forces.

This incident has been mentioned in interviews by Josh Paul, who resigned from the US state department earlier this year.

https://www.dci-palestine.org/israeli_interrogator_sexually_assaults_palestinian_child_detainee

Again for individual reports vs. mass rape event. This is equivalent to when Jeff said about Shani Louk “she had her underwear on”

Ok then say “Israel doesn’t carry out mass rape” and not “Israelis do NOT rape Palestinians”.

Don’t make verifiably false statements and then get defensive when someone tells you they’re false. And really if I were in your shoes I’d take a beat on making either of those claims because we don’t know the full scale of what’s happening right now, and you may find yourself re-defining your parameters for behavior yet again.

You are saying that possibly, Israeli soldiers are mass raping Palestinian women, cutting off breasts, and desecrating the bodies, ie parading their corpses through the streets of Tel Aviv while civilian Israelis are spitting on their dead flesh?

No? I am saying it’s possible there is a larger sexual violence issue with the IDF that we don’t yet know about (due to gag orders and also the lack of reporting from Gaza right now) and so I would continue to advise everyone not to make blanket statements about their behavior which are either verifiably false or have the potential to be proven false later. Stick with what is verifiably true.

The IDF are heroes, and if we had a reasonable leadership in this country people like you blatantly slandering such heroes would be arrested and tried for your crimes.

You believe that it should be a crime in the United States to post verified facts— published by the governments in question— about the conduct of foreign militaries?

They are NOT verified. They were part of a biased opinion piece as shown by the fact that the website has the word ‘Palestine’ in its url.

Posting verifiable facts is not a crime, but terrorizing Jewish people by slandering the IDF is and should be a crime.

It was not an opinion piece but actually a report put out by Defense for Children international- Palestine which is an NGO that works for the rights of children in the West Bank and Gaza.

Shortly after they came out with this report they were designated a terrorist organization by Israel and had their offices raided. Several countries (France, Germany, Sweden among others) said there was no proof of terrorism and would continue to work with them.

This is mentioned in an interview former state department official Josh Paul gave on PBS:

I was part of the human rights vetting process for arms going to Israel. And a charity called Defensive Children

International Palestine drew our attention at the State Department to the sexual assault, actually the rape of a 13-year-old boy that occurred in an

Israeli prison in Moskobiya (ph) in Jerusalem.

We examined these allegations. We believe they were credible. We put them through Israel to the government of Israel. And you know what happened the

next day? The IDF went into the DCIP offices and removed all their computers and declared them a terrorist entity.

Here is the report again:
https://www.dci-palestine.org/israeli_interrogator_sexually_assaults_palestinian_child_detainee

Here is the Josh Paul interview:

https://www.pbs.org/wnet/amanpour-and-company/video/fmr-state-dept-official-on-his-decision-to-leave-after-oct-7-2/

So you admit that Israel determined that the group making this allegation was found to be a terrorist organization by Israel, right?

So why should I read their report if they are a terrorist organization? As I said in my first post, it is clearly biased.

Do whatever you want, but Israel has proven time and time again to be the party in this conflict that cannot be trusted, and that cannot sustain integrity in their reporting of what’s occurring in the region.

People without an agenda instinctively laugh aloud when “Israel” and “facts” are mentioned in the same breath. Zero integrity. Zero credibility.

Israel is basically an isolated state on the world stage because countries don’t trust anyone affiliated with the Israeli government. Maybe that will change with a new wave of political leaders in Israel, but right now, Israel is not taken seriously by the rest of the world. Its just not.

DP. Well, we’ve definitely found the nutter. If you replace Hamas for Israel in your post, you’d be 100% correct. Unfortunately, you’re just trolling at this point. Israel has allies all over the world - including the U.S. and other western countries. What’s truly laughable is your inability to admit that Hamas is everything you listed, and worse. I honestly don’t know why I’m expending energy on you. You’re clearly pro-Hamas.

I’m not the poster you’re responding to but think about those allies. Every
One— Every Single One with the glaring exception of the U.S. has called for a ceasefire and condemned the indiscriminate bombing of civilians.

And here’s why: support for Israel’s wholesale killing of civilians is undermining all European credibility when condemning the same from Russia. Putin is laughing all the way to the UNSC knowing the next time there’s an atrocity in Ukraine like Bucha— at which the sexual violence, including against children was in fact comparable to October 7– he can just show the pictures of thousands of dead Palestinian children in their screaming mothers arms and ask why the U.S only cares about killed children when they’re European.

Support for evil acts in one place undermines our ability to oppose it anywhere. The U.S. has a moral duty to stop facilitating this violence against children.

And Israel has a moral duty— and many Israelis believe it has a moral duty— to protect children. Israel has not been successful in targeting Hamas leadership in this campaign, it is time to reassess their tactics and regain the support they’re losing.

DP. Israel has eliminated numerous Hamas leaders. It has four or so in Gaza left to find.

Not nearly as many as they need to in order make a proportional warfare case. Meanwhile they’re literally sitting in Qatar in luxury, while Israel kills children and claims it’s only targeting Hamas— meanwhile Hamas is elsewhere. It’s a horrific optic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:did anyone see the new survey that shows 72% of palestinians support Hamas's actions on Oct 7? https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/21/middleeast/palestinians-back-hamas-survey-intl-cmd/index.html

If the IDF hurt one of my children, I regret to say that I'd probably do more than support Hamas. After the IDF has killed and mutilated, displaced, and starved so many Palestinians, I'm surprised that number is as low as 72%.

Yes. This. Israel’s outsized response is only servicing to make Jews less safe worldwide. If you think IDF’s response has been justified based on 1200 deaths and 250 kidnapped victims, just imagine what the Palestinians want to do to Israelis for 20x that amount of suffering.

Wow. What both of you numbskulls conveniently ignore is the FACT that Hamas brutally mutilated, tortured, raped, and murdered, children and other innocent civilians FIRST. Why is it so easy for you to totally twist this narrative? Do you know how insane you sound?
DP

It is a mistake to try to assign a “first” in this conflict. You are correct that Hamas carried out a brutal attack on October 7th, but they didn’t spring into existence on October 6th.

https://prospect.org/world/2023-10-20-west-bank-settlements-conflict-gaza/

A very interesting article written by an Israeli author.

That's behind a firewall. At any rate, regardless of Jewish settlements, etc. - Israelis have NOT tortured and raped Palestinian women and children. Hamas are monsters. I hope they're eradicated from the face of the earth.

Just a reminder this is the statement categorically denying Israelis have tortured and raped Palestinian women which is precisely what the Israeli justice system says has taken place.

They’ve raped more Palestinian men than the women because they know men don’t ever speak out about such things

Cool story bro. Make wild accusations with no proof, and then give yourself fake cover by saying "you won't hear about it because it's suppressed / people are being bought off / they won't talk to it because of cultural issues" etc.

Here is a report about a 15 year old boy who was raped and was subjected to torture in the genitalia in 2021 by Israeli forces.

This incident has been mentioned in interviews by Josh Paul, who resigned from the US state department earlier this year.

https://www.dci-palestine.org/israeli_interrogator_sexually_assaults_palestinian_child_detainee

Again for individual reports vs. mass rape event. This is equivalent to when Jeff said about Shani Louk “she had her underwear on”

Ok then say “Israel doesn’t carry out mass rape” and not “Israelis do NOT rape Palestinians”.

Don’t make verifiably false statements and then get defensive when someone tells you they’re false. And really if I were in your shoes I’d take a beat on making either of those claims because we don’t know the full scale of what’s happening right now, and you may find yourself re-defining your parameters for behavior yet again.

You are saying that possibly, Israeli soldiers are mass raping Palestinian women, cutting off breasts, and desecrating the bodies, ie parading their corpses through the streets of Tel Aviv while civilian Israelis are spitting on their dead flesh?

No? I am saying it’s possible there is a larger sexual violence issue with the IDF that we don’t yet know about (due to gag orders and also the lack of reporting from Gaza right now) and so I would continue to advise everyone not to make blanket statements about their behavior which are either verifiably false or have the potential to be proven false later. Stick with what is verifiably true.

The IDF are heroes, and if we had a reasonable leadership in this country people like you blatantly slandering such heroes would be arrested and tried for your crimes.

You believe that it should be a crime in the United States to post verified facts— published by the governments in question— about the conduct of foreign militaries?

They are NOT verified. They were part of a biased opinion piece as shown by the fact that the website has the word ‘Palestine’ in its url.

Posting verifiable facts is not a crime, but terrorizing Jewish people by slandering the IDF is and should be a crime.

It was not an opinion piece but actually a report put out by Defense for Children international- Palestine which is an NGO that works for the rights of children in the West Bank and Gaza.

Shortly after they came out with this report they were designated a terrorist organization by Israel and had their offices raided. Several countries (France, Germany, Sweden among others) said there was no proof of terrorism and would continue to work with them.

This is mentioned in an interview former state department official Josh Paul gave on PBS:

I was part of the human rights vetting process for arms going to Israel. And a charity called Defensive Children

International Palestine drew our attention at the State Department to the sexual assault, actually the rape of a 13-year-old boy that occurred in an

Israeli prison in Moskobiya (ph) in Jerusalem.

We examined these allegations. We believe they were credible. We put them through Israel to the government of Israel. And you know what happened the

next day? The IDF went into the DCIP offices and removed all their computers and declared them a terrorist entity.

Here is the report again:
https://www.dci-palestine.org/israeli_interrogator_sexually_assaults_palestinian_child_detainee

Here is the Josh Paul interview:

https://www.pbs.org/wnet/amanpour-and-company/video/fmr-state-dept-official-on-his-decision-to-leave-after-oct-7-2/

So you admit that Israel determined that the group making this allegation was found to be a terrorist organization by Israel, right?

So why should I read their report if they are a terrorist organization? As I said in my first post, it is clearly biased.

Do whatever you want, but Israel has proven time and time again to be the party in this conflict that cannot be trusted, and that cannot sustain integrity in their reporting of what’s occurring in the region.

People without an agenda instinctively laugh aloud when “Israel” and “facts” are mentioned in the same breath. Zero integrity. Zero credibility.

Israel is basically an isolated state on the world stage because countries don’t trust anyone affiliated with the Israeli government. Maybe that will change with a new wave of political leaders in Israel, but right now, Israel is not taken seriously by the rest of the world. Its just not.

DP. Well, we’ve definitely found the nutter. If you replace Hamas for Israel in your post, you’d be 100% correct. Unfortunately, you’re just trolling at this point. Israel has allies all over the world - including the U.S. and other western countries. What’s truly laughable is your inability to admit that Hamas is everything you listed, and worse. I honestly don’t know why I’m expending energy on you. You’re clearly pro-Hamas.

I’m not the poster you’re responding to but think about those allies. Every
One— Every Single One with the glaring exception of the U.S. has called for a ceasefire and condemned the indiscriminate bombing of civilians.

And here’s why: support for Israel’s wholesale killing of civilians is undermining all European credibility when condemning the same from Russia. Putin is laughing all the way to the UNSC knowing the next time there’s an atrocity in Ukraine like Bucha— at which the sexual violence, including against children was in fact comparable to October 7– he can just show the pictures of thousands of dead Palestinian children in their screaming mothers arms and ask why the U.S only cares about killed children when they’re European.

Support for evil acts in one place undermines our ability to oppose it anywhere. The U.S. has a moral duty to stop facilitating this violence against children.

And Israel has a moral duty— and many Israelis believe it has a moral duty— to protect children. Israel has not been successful in targeting Hamas leadership in this campaign, it is time to reassess their tactics and regain the support they’re losing.

DP. Israel has eliminated numerous Hamas leaders. It has four or so in Gaza left to find.

Not nearly as many as they need to in order make a proportional warfare case. Meanwhile they’re literally sitting in Qatar in luxury, while Israel kills children and claims it’s only targeting Hamas— meanwhile Hamas is elsewhere. It’s a horrific optic.

Huh? Hamas is estimated to have up to 30,000 terrorists operating in Gaza. Israel has eliminated at least 9,000 of them to date and taken at least 700 prisoners. Blame Hamas for the optics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:did anyone see the new survey that shows 72% of palestinians support Hamas's actions on Oct 7? https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/21/middleeast/palestinians-back-hamas-survey-intl-cmd/index.html

If the IDF hurt one of my children, I regret to say that I'd probably do more than support Hamas. After the IDF has killed and mutilated, displaced, and starved so many Palestinians, I'm surprised that number is as low as 72%.

Yes. This. Israel’s outsized response is only servicing to make Jews less safe worldwide. If you think IDF’s response has been justified based on 1200 deaths and 250 kidnapped victims, just imagine what the Palestinians want to do to Israelis for 20x that amount of suffering.

Wow. What both of you numbskulls conveniently ignore is the FACT that Hamas brutally mutilated, tortured, raped, and murdered, children and other innocent civilians FIRST. Why is it so easy for you to totally twist this narrative? Do you know how insane you sound?
DP

It is a mistake to try to assign a “first” in this conflict. You are correct that Hamas carried out a brutal attack on October 7th, but they didn’t spring into existence on October 6th.

https://prospect.org/world/2023-10-20-west-bank-settlements-conflict-gaza/

A very interesting article written by an Israeli author.

That's behind a firewall. At any rate, regardless of Jewish settlements, etc. - Israelis have NOT tortured and raped Palestinian women and children. Hamas are monsters. I hope they're eradicated from the face of the earth.

Just a reminder this is the statement categorically denying Israelis have tortured and raped Palestinian women which is precisely what the Israeli justice system says has taken place.

They’ve raped more Palestinian men than the women because they know men don’t ever speak out about such things

Cool story bro. Make wild accusations with no proof, and then give yourself fake cover by saying "you won't hear about it because it's suppressed / people are being bought off / they won't talk to it because of cultural issues" etc.

Here is a report about a 15 year old boy who was raped and was subjected to torture in the genitalia in 2021 by Israeli forces.

This incident has been mentioned in interviews by Josh Paul, who resigned from the US state department earlier this year.

https://www.dci-palestine.org/israeli_interrogator_sexually_assaults_palestinian_child_detainee

Again for individual reports vs. mass rape event. This is equivalent to when Jeff said about Shani Louk “she had her underwear on”

Ok then say “Israel doesn’t carry out mass rape” and not “Israelis do NOT rape Palestinians”.

Don’t make verifiably false statements and then get defensive when someone tells you they’re false. And really if I were in your shoes I’d take a beat on making either of those claims because we don’t know the full scale of what’s happening right now, and you may find yourself re-defining your parameters for behavior yet again.

You are saying that possibly, Israeli soldiers are mass raping Palestinian women, cutting off breasts, and desecrating the bodies, ie parading their corpses through the streets of Tel Aviv while civilian Israelis are spitting on their dead flesh?

No? I am saying it’s possible there is a larger sexual violence issue with the IDF that we don’t yet know about (due to gag orders and also the lack of reporting from Gaza right now) and so I would continue to advise everyone not to make blanket statements about their behavior which are either verifiably false or have the potential to be proven false later. Stick with what is verifiably true.

The IDF are heroes, and if we had a reasonable leadership in this country people like you blatantly slandering such heroes would be arrested and tried for your crimes.

You believe that it should be a crime in the United States to post verified facts— published by the governments in question— about the conduct of foreign militaries?

They are NOT verified. They were part of a biased opinion piece as shown by the fact that the website has the word ‘Palestine’ in its url.

Posting verifiable facts is not a crime, but terrorizing Jewish people by slandering the IDF is and should be a crime.

It was not an opinion piece but actually a report put out by Defense for Children international- Palestine which is an NGO that works for the rights of children in the West Bank and Gaza.

Shortly after they came out with this report they were designated a terrorist organization by Israel and had their offices raided. Several countries (France, Germany, Sweden among others) said there was no proof of terrorism and would continue to work with them.

This is mentioned in an interview former state department official Josh Paul gave on PBS:

I was part of the human rights vetting process for arms going to Israel. And a charity called Defensive Children

International Palestine drew our attention at the State Department to the sexual assault, actually the rape of a 13-year-old boy that occurred in an

Israeli prison in Moskobiya (ph) in Jerusalem.

We examined these allegations. We believe they were credible. We put them through Israel to the government of Israel. And you know what happened the

next day? The IDF went into the DCIP offices and removed all their computers and declared them a terrorist entity.

Here is the report again:
https://www.dci-palestine.org/israeli_interrogator_sexually_assaults_palestinian_child_detainee

Here is the Josh Paul interview:

https://www.pbs.org/wnet/amanpour-and-company/video/fmr-state-dept-official-on-his-decision-to-leave-after-oct-7-2/

So you admit that Israel determined that the group making this allegation was found to be a terrorist organization by Israel, right?

So why should I read their report if they are a terrorist organization? As I said in my first post, it is clearly biased.

Do whatever you want, but Israel has proven time and time again to be the party in this conflict that cannot be trusted, and that cannot sustain integrity in their reporting of what’s occurring in the region.

People without an agenda instinctively laugh aloud when “Israel” and “facts” are mentioned in the same breath. Zero integrity. Zero credibility.

Israel is basically an isolated state on the world stage because countries don’t trust anyone affiliated with the Israeli government. Maybe that will change with a new wave of political leaders in Israel, but right now, Israel is not taken seriously by the rest of the world. Its just not.

DP. Well, we’ve definitely found the nutter. If you replace Hamas for Israel in your post, you’d be 100% correct. Unfortunately, you’re just trolling at this point. Israel has allies all over the world - including the U.S. and other western countries. What’s truly laughable is your inability to admit that Hamas is everything you listed, and worse. I honestly don’t know why I’m expending energy on you. You’re clearly pro-Hamas.

I’m not the poster you’re responding to but think about those allies. Every
One— Every Single One with the glaring exception of the U.S. has called for a ceasefire and condemned the indiscriminate bombing of civilians.

And here’s why: support for Israel’s wholesale killing of civilians is undermining all European credibility when condemning the same from Russia. Putin is laughing all the way to the UNSC knowing the next time there’s an atrocity in Ukraine like Bucha— at which the sexual violence, including against children was in fact comparable to October 7– he can just show the pictures of thousands of dead Palestinian children in their screaming mothers arms and ask why the U.S only cares about killed children when they’re European.

Support for evil acts in one place undermines our ability to oppose it anywhere. The U.S. has a moral duty to stop facilitating this violence against children.

And Israel has a moral duty— and many Israelis believe it has a moral duty— to protect children. Israel has not been successful in targeting Hamas leadership in this campaign, it is time to reassess their tactics and regain the support they’re losing.

DP. Israel has eliminated numerous Hamas leaders. It has four or so in Gaza left to find.

lol only took twenty thousand dead. Maybe IDF would do better to stop fighting innocent snowglobes or dedicating blown-up buildings to two-year olds. I’m sure little Ella will miss her daddy but #thatslife.

You ok?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:did anyone see the new survey that shows 72% of palestinians support Hamas's actions on Oct 7? https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/21/middleeast/palestinians-back-hamas-survey-intl-cmd/index.html

If the IDF hurt one of my children, I regret to say that I'd probably do more than support Hamas. After the IDF has killed and mutilated, displaced, and starved so many Palestinians, I'm surprised that number is as low as 72%.

Yes. This. Israel’s outsized response is only servicing to make Jews less safe worldwide. If you think IDF’s response has been justified based on 1200 deaths and 250 kidnapped victims, just imagine what the Palestinians want to do to Israelis for 20x that amount of suffering.

Wow. What both of you numbskulls conveniently ignore is the FACT that Hamas brutally mutilated, tortured, raped, and murdered, children and other innocent civilians FIRST. Why is it so easy for you to totally twist this narrative? Do you know how insane you sound?
DP

It is a mistake to try to assign a “first” in this conflict. You are correct that Hamas carried out a brutal attack on October 7th, but they didn’t spring into existence on October 6th.

https://prospect.org/world/2023-10-20-west-bank-settlements-conflict-gaza/

A very interesting article written by an Israeli author.

That's behind a firewall. At any rate, regardless of Jewish settlements, etc. - Israelis have NOT tortured and raped Palestinian women and children. Hamas are monsters. I hope they're eradicated from the face of the earth.

Just a reminder this is the statement categorically denying Israelis have tortured and raped Palestinian women which is precisely what the Israeli justice system says has taken place.

They’ve raped more Palestinian men than the women because they know men don’t ever speak out about such things

Cool story bro. Make wild accusations with no proof, and then give yourself fake cover by saying "you won't hear about it because it's suppressed / people are being bought off / they won't talk to it because of cultural issues" etc.

Here is a report about a 15 year old boy who was raped and was subjected to torture in the genitalia in 2021 by Israeli forces.

This incident has been mentioned in interviews by Josh Paul, who resigned from the US state department earlier this year.

https://www.dci-palestine.org/israeli_interrogator_sexually_assaults_palestinian_child_detainee

Again for individual reports vs. mass rape event. This is equivalent to when Jeff said about Shani Louk “she had her underwear on”

Ok then say “Israel doesn’t carry out mass rape” and not “Israelis do NOT rape Palestinians”.

Don’t make verifiably false statements and then get defensive when someone tells you they’re false. And really if I were in your shoes I’d take a beat on making either of those claims because we don’t know the full scale of what’s happening right now, and you may find yourself re-defining your parameters for behavior yet again.

You are saying that possibly, Israeli soldiers are mass raping Palestinian women, cutting off breasts, and desecrating the bodies, ie parading their corpses through the streets of Tel Aviv while civilian Israelis are spitting on their dead flesh?

No? I am saying it’s possible there is a larger sexual violence issue with the IDF that we don’t yet know about (due to gag orders and also the lack of reporting from Gaza right now) and so I would continue to advise everyone not to make blanket statements about their behavior which are either verifiably false or have the potential to be proven false later. Stick with what is verifiably true.

The IDF are heroes, and if we had a reasonable leadership in this country people like you blatantly slandering such heroes would be arrested and tried for your crimes.

You believe that it should be a crime in the United States to post verified facts— published by the governments in question— about the conduct of foreign militaries?

They are NOT verified. They were part of a biased opinion piece as shown by the fact that the website has the word ‘Palestine’ in its url.

Posting verifiable facts is not a crime, but terrorizing Jewish people by slandering the IDF is and should be a crime.

It was not an opinion piece but actually a report put out by Defense for Children international- Palestine which is an NGO that works for the rights of children in the West Bank and Gaza.

Shortly after they came out with this report they were designated a terrorist organization by Israel and had their offices raided. Several countries (France, Germany, Sweden among others) said there was no proof of terrorism and would continue to work with them.

This is mentioned in an interview former state department official Josh Paul gave on PBS:

I was part of the human rights vetting process for arms going to Israel. And a charity called Defensive Children

International Palestine drew our attention at the State Department to the sexual assault, actually the rape of a 13-year-old boy that occurred in an

Israeli prison in Moskobiya (ph) in Jerusalem.

We examined these allegations. We believe they were credible. We put them through Israel to the government of Israel. And you know what happened the

next day? The IDF went into the DCIP offices and removed all their computers and declared them a terrorist entity.

Here is the report again:
https://www.dci-palestine.org/israeli_interrogator_sexually_assaults_palestinian_child_detainee

Here is the Josh Paul interview:

https://www.pbs.org/wnet/amanpour-and-company/video/fmr-state-dept-official-on-his-decision-to-leave-after-oct-7-2/

So you admit that Israel determined that the group making this allegation was found to be a terrorist organization by Israel, right?

So why should I read their report if they are a terrorist organization? As I said in my first post, it is clearly biased.

Do whatever you want, but Israel has proven time and time again to be the party in this conflict that cannot be trusted, and that cannot sustain integrity in their reporting of what’s occurring in the region.

People without an agenda instinctively laugh aloud when “Israel” and “facts” are mentioned in the same breath. Zero integrity. Zero credibility.

Israel is basically an isolated state on the world stage because countries don’t trust anyone affiliated with the Israeli government. Maybe that will change with a new wave of political leaders in Israel, but right now, Israel is not taken seriously by the rest of the world. Its just not.

DP. Well, we’ve definitely found the nutter. If you replace Hamas for Israel in your post, you’d be 100% correct. Unfortunately, you’re just trolling at this point. Israel has allies all over the world - including the U.S. and other western countries. What’s truly laughable is your inability to admit that Hamas is everything you listed, and worse. I honestly don’t know why I’m expending energy on you. You’re clearly pro-Hamas.

I’m not the poster you’re responding to but think about those allies. Every
One— Every Single One with the glaring exception of the U.S. has called for a ceasefire and condemned the indiscriminate bombing of civilians.

And here’s why: support for Israel’s wholesale killing of civilians is undermining all European credibility when condemning the same from Russia. Putin is laughing all the way to the UNSC knowing the next time there’s an atrocity in Ukraine like Bucha— at which the sexual violence, including against children was in fact comparable to October 7– he can just show the pictures of thousands of dead Palestinian children in their screaming mothers arms and ask why the U.S only cares about killed children when they’re European.

Support for evil acts in one place undermines our ability to oppose it anywhere. The U.S. has a moral duty to stop facilitating this violence against children.

And Israel has a moral duty— and many Israelis believe it has a moral duty— to protect children. Israel has not been successful in targeting Hamas leadership in this campaign, it is time to reassess their tactics and regain the support they’re losing.

DP. Israel has eliminated numerous Hamas leaders. It has four or so in Gaza left to find.

Not nearly as many as they need to in order make a proportional warfare case. Meanwhile they’re literally sitting in Qatar in luxury, while Israel kills children and claims it’s only targeting Hamas— meanwhile Hamas is elsewhere. It’s a horrific optic.

Huh? Hamas is estimated to have up to 30,000 terrorists operating in Gaza. Israel has eliminated at least 9,000 of them to date and taken at least 700 prisoners. Blame Hamas for the optics.

They have not eliminated “at least 9,000” unless your math is that every adult killed in Gaza was “a Hamas fighter”.

They have eliminated very few high value targets. They have admitted this— it’s why they say they will need to operate for months— meanwhile significant leadership of Hamas isn’t in Gaza. They’re killing low value targets and civilians which is why they’ve lost so much support in the last month.

[Anonymous]

This thread is basically the current events in ME going on. Impossible for people to change each other minds and def nobody willing to cede any points. Wonder why the fight continues and will never end there? Obviously human nature is why nothing will resolve. There's no debating or negotiating until there's nothing left honestly. Sad but true. People are to stuck in their own views to ever have peace. On this forum and on the battlefront.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:did anyone see the new survey that shows 72% of palestinians support Hamas's actions on Oct 7? https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/21/middleeast/palestinians-back-hamas-survey-intl-cmd/index.html

If the IDF hurt one of my children, I regret to say that I'd probably do more than support Hamas. After the IDF has killed and mutilated, displaced, and starved so many Palestinians, I'm surprised that number is as low as 72%.

Yes. This. Israel’s outsized response is only servicing to make Jews less safe worldwide. If you think IDF’s response has been justified based on 1200 deaths and 250 kidnapped victims, just imagine what the Palestinians want to do to Israelis for 20x that amount of suffering.

Wow. What both of you numbskulls conveniently ignore is the FACT that Hamas brutally mutilated, tortured, raped, and murdered, children and other innocent civilians FIRST. Why is it so easy for you to totally twist this narrative? Do you know how insane you sound?
DP

It is a mistake to try to assign a “first” in this conflict. You are correct that Hamas carried out a brutal attack on October 7th, but they didn’t spring into existence on October 6th.

https://prospect.org/world/2023-10-20-west-bank-settlements-conflict-gaza/

A very interesting article written by an Israeli author.

That's behind a firewall. At any rate, regardless of Jewish settlements, etc. - Israelis have NOT tortured and raped Palestinian women and children. Hamas are monsters. I hope they're eradicated from the face of the earth.

Just a reminder this is the statement categorically denying Israelis have tortured and raped Palestinian women which is precisely what the Israeli justice system says has taken place.

They’ve raped more Palestinian men than the women because they know men don’t ever speak out about such things

Cool story bro. Make wild accusations with no proof, and then give yourself fake cover by saying "you won't hear about it because it's suppressed / people are being bought off / they won't talk to it because of cultural issues" etc.

Here is a report about a 15 year old boy who was raped and was subjected to torture in the genitalia in 2021 by Israeli forces.

This incident has been mentioned in interviews by Josh Paul, who resigned from the US state department earlier this year.

https://www.dci-palestine.org/israeli_interrogator_sexually_assaults_palestinian_child_detainee

Again for individual reports vs. mass rape event. This is equivalent to when Jeff said about Shani Louk “she had her underwear on”

Ok then say “Israel doesn’t carry out mass rape” and not “Israelis do NOT rape Palestinians”.

Don’t make verifiably false statements and then get defensive when someone tells you they’re false. And really if I were in your shoes I’d take a beat on making either of those claims because we don’t know the full scale of what’s happening right now, and you may find yourself re-defining your parameters for behavior yet again.

You are saying that possibly, Israeli soldiers are mass raping Palestinian women, cutting off breasts, and desecrating the bodies, ie parading their corpses through the streets of Tel Aviv while civilian Israelis are spitting on their dead flesh?

No? I am saying it’s possible there is a larger sexual violence issue with the IDF that we don’t yet know about (due to gag orders and also the lack of reporting from Gaza right now) and so I would continue to advise everyone not to make blanket statements about their behavior which are either verifiably false or have the potential to be proven false later. Stick with what is verifiably true.

The IDF are heroes, and if we had a reasonable leadership in this country people like you blatantly slandering such heroes would be arrested and tried for your crimes.

You believe that it should be a crime in the United States to post verified facts— published by the governments in question— about the conduct of foreign militaries?

They are NOT verified. They were part of a biased opinion piece as shown by the fact that the website has the word ‘Palestine’ in its url.

Posting verifiable facts is not a crime, but terrorizing Jewish people by slandering the IDF is and should be a crime.

It was not an opinion piece but actually a report put out by Defense for Children international- Palestine which is an NGO that works for the rights of children in the West Bank and Gaza.

Shortly after they came out with this report they were designated a terrorist organization by Israel and had their offices raided. Several countries (France, Germany, Sweden among others) said there was no proof of terrorism and would continue to work with them.

This is mentioned in an interview former state department official Josh Paul gave on PBS:

I was part of the human rights vetting process for arms going to Israel. And a charity called Defensive Children

International Palestine drew our attention at the State Department to the sexual assault, actually the rape of a 13-year-old boy that occurred in an

Israeli prison in Moskobiya (ph) in Jerusalem.

We examined these allegations. We believe they were credible. We put them through Israel to the government of Israel. And you know what happened the

next day? The IDF went into the DCIP offices and removed all their computers and declared them a terrorist entity.

Here is the report again:
https://www.dci-palestine.org/israeli_interrogator_sexually_assaults_palestinian_child_detainee

Here is the Josh Paul interview:

https://www.pbs.org/wnet/amanpour-and-company/video/fmr-state-dept-official-on-his-decision-to-leave-after-oct-7-2/

So you admit that Israel determined that the group making this allegation was found to be a terrorist organization by Israel, right?

So why should I read their report if they are a terrorist organization? As I said in my first post, it is clearly biased.

Do whatever you want, but Israel has proven time and time again to be the party in this conflict that cannot be trusted, and that cannot sustain integrity in their reporting of what’s occurring in the region.

People without an agenda instinctively laugh aloud when “Israel” and “facts” are mentioned in the same breath. Zero integrity. Zero credibility.

Israel is basically an isolated state on the world stage because countries don’t trust anyone affiliated with the Israeli government. Maybe that will change with a new wave of political leaders in Israel, but right now, Israel is not taken seriously by the rest of the world. Its just not.

DP. Well, we’ve definitely found the nutter. If you replace Hamas for Israel in your post, you’d be 100% correct. Unfortunately, you’re just trolling at this point. Israel has allies all over the world - including the U.S. and other western countries. What’s truly laughable is your inability to admit that Hamas is everything you listed, and worse. I honestly don’t know why I’m expending energy on you. You’re clearly pro-Hamas.

I’m not the poster you’re responding to but think about those allies. Every
One— Every Single One with the glaring exception of the U.S. has called for a ceasefire and condemned the indiscriminate bombing of civilians.

And here’s why: support for Israel’s wholesale killing of civilians is undermining all European credibility when condemning the same from Russia. Putin is laughing all the way to the UNSC knowing the next time there’s an atrocity in Ukraine like Bucha— at which the sexual violence, including against children was in fact comparable to October 7– he can just show the pictures of thousands of dead Palestinian children in their screaming mothers arms and ask why the U.S only cares about killed children when they’re European.

Support for evil acts in one place undermines our ability to oppose it anywhere. The U.S. has a moral duty to stop facilitating this violence against children.

And Israel has a moral duty— and many Israelis believe it has a moral duty— to protect children. Israel has not been successful in targeting Hamas leadership in this campaign, it is time to reassess their tactics and regain the support they’re losing.

DP. Israel has eliminated numerous Hamas leaders. It has four or so in Gaza left to find.

Not nearly as many as they need to in order make a proportional warfare case. Meanwhile they’re literally sitting in Qatar in luxury, while Israel kills children and claims it’s only targeting Hamas— meanwhile Hamas is elsewhere. It’s a horrific optic.

Huh? Hamas is estimated to have up to 30,000 terrorists operating in Gaza. Israel has eliminated at least 9,000 of them to date and taken at least 700 prisoners. Blame Hamas for the optics.

They have not eliminated “at least 9,000” unless your math is that every adult killed in Gaza was “a Hamas fighter”.

They have eliminated very few high value targets. They have admitted this— it’s why they say they will need to operate for months— meanwhile significant leadership of Hamas isn’t in Gaza. They’re killing low value targets and civilians which is why they’ve lost so much support in the last month.

My math is based on the source: 1,000 terrorists eliminated on October 7 and the days immediately following. Add to that 8,000 terrorists subsequently. And that’s a low estimate. Hamas does not include the 8,000 in its numbers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This thread is basically the current events in ME going on. Impossible for people to change each other minds and def nobody willing to cede any points. Wonder why the fight continues and will never end there? Obviously human nature is why nothing will resolve. There's no debating or negotiating until there's nothing left honestly. Sad but true. People are to stuck in their own views to ever have peace. On this forum and on the battlefront.

So, then, it seems appropriate to recall the words of Secretary State Blinken: This all ends, now, if Hamas surrenders.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hamas is a designated terrorist organization. That is simply a fact.

Hamas does not represent the Palestinian people. Hamas does not represent anyone, or anything other than hate, murder, and terrorism.

The Palestinian people are represented only by the Palestinian authority, and Mahmoud Abbas is their leader.

Hamas will soon cease to exist.

Except it DOES represent the Palestinian people. A recent poll: an overwhelming number of Palestinian respondents support Hamas and think 10/7 was justified. So, this notion that somehow Hamas is just holding the Palestinians captive, that given the option, Palestinians would want different leadership and would not wish violence against Israelis is nonsense.

From the CNN write up of the PCSPR poll:

The survey, which has a four-point margin of error (rather than the usual three-point), found that almost three-quarters (72%) of all respondents believe Hamas’s decision to launch its attack on Israel on October 7 was “correct.”

Less than a quarter (22%) said it was “incorrect.”


When people cite Israeli defense - and offense - over the decades it’s precisely because they have been under constant attack. From Arab neighbors and from terrorists groups. Any other country in the world would want to defend its own security and would pursue terrorists who not only infiltrated its borders but slaughtered and kidnapped its citizens. But the pro-Palestinian contingent paints Israel as an aggressor … how many times must it endure attacks?

And don’t give me the Israelis are colonists BS. So done with that non-historical nonsense. Jews are in Europe and elsewhere because they had to flee Arab invaders … Jewish Diaspora. Look it up.

Steal more land. That’s definitely a solution.

You must be referring to Arabs that ran Jews out of the region over the course of centuries.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:did anyone see the new survey that shows 72% of palestinians support Hamas's actions on Oct 7? https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/21/middleeast/palestinians-back-hamas-survey-intl-cmd/index.html

If the IDF hurt one of my children, I regret to say that I'd probably do more than support Hamas. After the IDF has killed and mutilated, displaced, and starved so many Palestinians, I'm surprised that number is as low as 72%.

Yes. This. Israel’s outsized response is only servicing to make Jews less safe worldwide. If you think IDF’s response has been justified based on 1200 deaths and 250 kidnapped victims, just imagine what the Palestinians want to do to Israelis for 20x that amount of suffering.

Wow. What both of you numbskulls conveniently ignore is the FACT that Hamas brutally mutilated, tortured, raped, and murdered, children and other innocent civilians FIRST. Why is it so easy for you to totally twist this narrative? Do you know how insane you sound?
DP

It is a mistake to try to assign a “first” in this conflict. You are correct that Hamas carried out a brutal attack on October 7th, but they didn’t spring into existence on October 6th.

https://prospect.org/world/2023-10-20-west-bank-settlements-conflict-gaza/

A very interesting article written by an Israeli author.

That's behind a firewall. At any rate, regardless of Jewish settlements, etc. - Israelis have NOT tortured and raped Palestinian women and children. Hamas are monsters. I hope they're eradicated from the face of the earth.

Just a reminder this is the statement categorically denying Israelis have tortured and raped Palestinian women which is precisely what the Israeli justice system says has taken place.

They’ve raped more Palestinian men than the women because they know men don’t ever speak out about such things

Cool story bro. Make wild accusations with no proof, and then give yourself fake cover by saying "you won't hear about it because it's suppressed / people are being bought off / they won't talk to it because of cultural issues" etc.

Here is a report about a 15 year old boy who was raped and was subjected to torture in the genitalia in 2021 by Israeli forces.

This incident has been mentioned in interviews by Josh Paul, who resigned from the US state department earlier this year.

https://www.dci-palestine.org/israeli_interrogator_sexually_assaults_palestinian_child_detainee

Again for individual reports vs. mass rape event. This is equivalent to when Jeff said about Shani Louk “she had her underwear on”

Ok then say “Israel doesn’t carry out mass rape” and not “Israelis do NOT rape Palestinians”.

Don’t make verifiably false statements and then get defensive when someone tells you they’re false. And really if I were in your shoes I’d take a beat on making either of those claims because we don’t know the full scale of what’s happening right now, and you may find yourself re-defining your parameters for behavior yet again.

You are saying that possibly, Israeli soldiers are mass raping Palestinian women, cutting off breasts, and desecrating the bodies, ie parading their corpses through the streets of Tel Aviv while civilian Israelis are spitting on their dead flesh?

No? I am saying it’s possible there is a larger sexual violence issue with the IDF that we don’t yet know about (due to gag orders and also the lack of reporting from Gaza right now) and so I would continue to advise everyone not to make blanket statements about their behavior which are either verifiably false or have the potential to be proven false later. Stick with what is verifiably true.

The IDF are heroes, and if we had a reasonable leadership in this country people like you blatantly slandering such heroes would be arrested and tried for your crimes.

You believe that it should be a crime in the United States to post verified facts— published by the governments in question— about the conduct of foreign militaries?

They are NOT verified. They were part of a biased opinion piece as shown by the fact that the website has the word ‘Palestine’ in its url.

Posting verifiable facts is not a crime, but terrorizing Jewish people by slandering the IDF is and should be a crime.

It was not an opinion piece but actually a report put out by Defense for Children international- Palestine which is an NGO that works for the rights of children in the West Bank and Gaza.

Shortly after they came out with this report they were designated a terrorist organization by Israel and had their offices raided. Several countries (France, Germany, Sweden among others) said there was no proof of terrorism and would continue to work with them.

This is mentioned in an interview former state department official Josh Paul gave on PBS:

I was part of the human rights vetting process for arms going to Israel. And a charity called Defensive Children

International Palestine drew our attention at the State Department to the sexual assault, actually the rape of a 13-year-old boy that occurred in an

Israeli prison in Moskobiya (ph) in Jerusalem.

We examined these allegations. We believe they were credible. We put them through Israel to the government of Israel. And you know what happened the

next day? The IDF went into the DCIP offices and removed all their computers and declared them a terrorist entity.

Here is the report again:
https://www.dci-palestine.org/israeli_interrogator_sexually_assaults_palestinian_child_detainee

Here is the Josh Paul interview:

https://www.pbs.org/wnet/amanpour-and-company/video/fmr-state-dept-official-on-his-decision-to-leave-after-oct-7-2/

So you admit that Israel determined that the group making this allegation was found to be a terrorist organization by Israel, right?

So why should I read their report if they are a terrorist organization? As I said in my first post, it is clearly biased.

Do whatever you want, but Israel has proven time and time again to be the party in this conflict that cannot be trusted, and that cannot sustain integrity in their reporting of what’s occurring in the region.

People without an agenda instinctively laugh aloud when “Israel” and “facts” are mentioned in the same breath. Zero integrity. Zero credibility.

Israel is basically an isolated state on the world stage because countries don’t trust anyone affiliated with the Israeli government. Maybe that will change with a new wave of political leaders in Israel, but right now, Israel is not taken seriously by the rest of the world. Its just not.

DP. Well, we’ve definitely found the nutter. If you replace Hamas for Israel in your post, you’d be 100% correct. Unfortunately, you’re just trolling at this point. Israel has allies all over the world - including the U.S. and other western countries. What’s truly laughable is your inability to admit that Hamas is everything you listed, and worse. I honestly don’t know why I’m expending energy on you. You’re clearly pro-Hamas.

I’m not the poster you’re responding to but think about those allies. Every
One— Every Single One with the glaring exception of the U.S. has called for a ceasefire and condemned the indiscriminate bombing of civilians.

And here’s why: support for Israel’s wholesale killing of civilians is undermining all European credibility when condemning the same from Russia. Putin is laughing all the way to the UNSC knowing the next time there’s an atrocity in Ukraine like Bucha— at which the sexual violence, including against children was in fact comparable to October 7– he can just show the pictures of thousands of dead Palestinian children in their screaming mothers arms and ask why the U.S only cares about killed children when they’re European.

Support for evil acts in one place undermines our ability to oppose it anywhere. The U.S. has a moral duty to stop facilitating this violence against children.

And Israel has a moral duty— and many Israelis believe it has a moral duty— to protect children. Israel has not been successful in targeting Hamas leadership in this campaign, it is time to reassess their tactics and regain the support they’re losing.

DP. Israel has eliminated numerous Hamas leaders. It has four or so in Gaza left to find.

Not nearly as many as they need to in order make a proportional warfare case. Meanwhile they’re literally sitting in Qatar in luxury, while Israel kills children and claims it’s only targeting Hamas— meanwhile Hamas is elsewhere. It’s a horrific optic.

Maybe blame Hamas and the Qatar government for the optics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is basically the current events in ME going on. Impossible for people to change each other minds and def nobody willing to cede any points. Wonder why the fight continues and will never end there? Obviously human nature is why nothing will resolve. There's no debating or negotiating until there's nothing left honestly. Sad but true. People are to stuck in their own views to ever have peace. On this forum and on the battlefront.

So, then, it seems appropriate to recall the words of Secretary State Blinken: This all ends, now, if Hamas surrenders.

Why would Hamas surrender? That's certain death. This will never end.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is basically the current events in ME going on. Impossible for people to change each other minds and def nobody willing to cede any points. Wonder why the fight continues and will never end there? Obviously human nature is why nothing will resolve. There's no debating or negotiating until there's nothing left honestly. Sad but true. People are to stuck in their own views to ever have peace. On this forum and on the battlefront.

So, then, it seems appropriate to recall the words of Secretary State Blinken: This all ends, now, if Hamas surrenders.

Why would Hamas surrender? Israel is not taking prisoners. Israel is exterminating Hamas and any Palestinian it can find. The country and its supporters are just a bunch of crazy religious extremist bent on waging a holy war and killing everyone(including other Jews) who do not fall in line.