Gen Xers - Do you find Taylor Swift’s music bland?

[Anonymous]

Her concerts are a very expensive productions - so of course the production value is high. If her music was good, she wouldn't need such extravagant outfits and production on stage but for her audience, that is a big part of the show.

Apparently it cost about 15 million to initially produce and then you have ongoing venue fees, salaries, and all the equipment rental so probably 4-5 million a week for running costs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Vengeance is certainly one theme in her music but she has many others. Just focusing on that to sum her up is pretty reductive.

Right? The different criticisms are coming from such a narrow scope.

[Anonymous]

Gen X. I have always loved her music.

[Anonymous]

I don't love the music - but I think this is mostly about me getting old and losing interest in new music than it is about the music itself.

I'm 51 so the 80s and 90s were the big music periods for me - and I miss the messy, warbly stuff I loved in that period. It seemed like music was more fun and had more feeling to it.

But, I am old. I always tease my parents that the last new band they listened to was The Beatles.

[Anonymous]

This is a very long thread, has anyone talked about the importance of social media in horizon to fame? She was able to use social media to seem very connected and approachable to her fans, were they felt they had a personal relationship and grew up as if she was their friend

[Anonymous]

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Gen X and love her music. That said, I probably wouldn’t have noticed the music had I not been steeped in it via my young daughters.

At first I thought it was fluff, but then I watched her Netflix documentary and was surprised to see that she’s a truly talented lyricist and songwriter.

More importantly, she’s overtly kind and generous, self assured, hard working, and she uses her public platform to benefit others and to champion causes she believes in.

[/quote]

And she makes great Kool-aid too! Oh Yeah![/quote]

I guess I will never understand this sort of negativity. Maybe it just irks certain people that so many see Taylor for the positive force and talent that she is, because they can't see it. [/quote]

Comfort yourself with the thought that I’m a member of the to be pitied, ‘other group’ composed only of ‘certain people.” Don’t worry, you won’t catch the evilness of negativity and gen X snark.[/quote]

I actually love snark. I was a card-carrying member of TWOP. (RIP.)[/quote]

TWOP was ground zero for Gen Z(+) snark more than 2 decades ago. Truly some masterpieces there.


+1. TWOP taught me one of the most useful words: "asshat." Just so useful in a variety of situations. I miss that and Fametracker, which introduced the very useful concepts of "2 Stars:One Slot" and "Hey! It's that Guy!" RIP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do you know what pop mean? It means popular.
It's passable music for a large set of people, not a niche genre that a few people love.

Yeah, this. Pop music is almost definitionally bland. Sure, there are a few exceptions, but by and large it's all unoffensive pablum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Britney Spears was 100x better than Taylor as a singer and entertainer and her journey from girlhood to womanhood i.e. promiscuity, post partum, divorce, drug abuse, meltdown was far more real.

Taylor seems too normal to be a star

The big difference between these two, is TS understands business on a global scale and BS is both mentally unwell and intellectually challenged.

[Anonymous]

Yes, don’t get it at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:All her lyrics seem to be about that pre-teen/early teen stage of life, but she's 34??

Given that a song on her latest album is about masturbation, I am not so sure about that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Gen X and love her music. That said, I probably wouldn’t have noticed the music had I not been steeped in it via my young daughters.

At first I thought it was fluff, but then I watched her Netflix documentary and was surprised to see that she’s a truly talented lyricist and songwriter.

More importantly, she’s overtly kind and generous, self assured, hard working, and she uses her public platform to benefit others and to champion causes she believes in.

And she makes great Kool-aid too! Oh Yeah!

I guess I will never understand this sort of negativity. Maybe it just irks certain people that so many see Taylor for the positive force and talent that she is, because they can't see it.

Comfort yourself with the thought that I’m a member of the to be pitied, ‘other group’ composed only of ‘certain people.” Don’t worry, you won’t catch the evilness of negativity and gen X snark.

I actually love snark. I was a card-carrying member of TWOP. (RIP.)

DP. Me too! Oh how I miss it.

You can get a little of the vibe with Linda Holmes on Pop Culture Happy Hour. Here's a nice retrospective from her form 2014: https://www.npr.org/2014/03/31/297338377/10-absolutely-true-stories-about-writing-for-television-without-pity

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Gen X and love her music. That said, I probably wouldn’t have noticed the music had I not been steeped in it via my young daughters.

At first I thought it was fluff, but then I watched her Netflix documentary and was surprised to see that she’s a truly talented lyricist and songwriter.

More importantly, she’s overtly kind and generous, self assured, hard working, and she uses her public platform to benefit others and to champion causes she believes in.

And she makes great Kool-aid too! Oh Yeah!

I guess I will never understand this sort of negativity. Maybe it just irks certain people that so many see Taylor for the positive force and talent that she is, because they can't see it.

Comfort yourself with the thought that I’m a member of the to be pitied, ‘other group’ composed only of ‘certain people.” Don’t worry, you won’t catch the evilness of negativity and gen X snark.

I actually love snark. I was a card-carrying member of TWOP. (RIP.)

I have no idea what that is, but you seem excited by your membership or former membership.

To be not snarky for a minute- I hate hearing Taylor because her songs are so boring and it feels like the same 3 notes are being drummed into my head. She has zero melody. If she is giving her money away- great but I don think that makes her “generous, hard working and blah blah blah. I love certain artists but I know nothing or little about what they do in their personal lives. She made a cult of personality out of her music and you (already a card carrying fan member of another group) appreciate that . I don’t care one way or another

EXECPT

I can’t just walk away when I’m in giant or at target or even the gas station. All places where I have heard her in the past 2 weeks and her 3 notes over and over again. I can’t walk away from work where my boss quotes her in staff meetings.

“If you're horrible to me, I'm going to write a song about it, and you won't like it. That's how I operate.“
-Taylor swift

She said that and I don’t think that is generous or kind or a role model or who I would want to be like. You say I’m negative, I say I’m tired of people thinking someone who trains her fans to look for Easter eggs and operates by writing mean songs is kind generous and nice.

TWOP was ground zero for Gen Z(+) snark more than 2 decades ago. Truly some masterpieces there.

I guess your post did make me realize that you (general you) have to give up some level of cynicism (the mark of Gen Z) and snark to fully embrace Taylor and her music. At least I did. Until TTPD, there was a certain level of awkward to her. I didn't appreciate her until, and I hate to admit this, I listened to Ryan Adam's cover album of 1989. I saw her writing in a whole new light. It think it was some level of internal misogyny mixed with doubt that a pretty blonde girl in her 20s could be that deep/talented but also pop. Right now the talented women ARE in pop - Taylor, Chappell, Charli, etc. Taylor was country first because it aligned better with her songwriting skills and age.

I think you mean GenX, not Z.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Britney Spears was 100x better than Taylor as a singer and entertainer and her journey from girlhood to womanhood i.e. promiscuity, post partum, divorce, drug abuse, meltdown was far more real.

Taylor seems too normal to be a star

No shade to Britney Spears, who I believe is a very talented and hard-working singer, dancer, and performer, but the reason Taylor Swift seems normal is because she was not raised to be her family's meal ticket, her parents have her best interests at heart, and she is very intelligent and had the opportunity to be exposed to very normal upper middle class things. Spears did not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Gen X and love her music. That said, I probably wouldn’t have noticed the music had I not been steeped in it via my young daughters.

At first I thought it was fluff, but then I watched her Netflix documentary and was surprised to see that she’s a truly talented lyricist and songwriter.

More importantly, she’s overtly kind and generous, self assured, hard working, and she uses her public platform to benefit others and to champion causes she believes in.

And she makes great Kool-aid too! Oh Yeah!

I guess I will never understand this sort of negativity. Maybe it just irks certain people that so many see Taylor for the positive force and talent that she is, because they can't see it.

Comfort yourself with the thought that I’m a member of the to be pitied, ‘other group’ composed only of ‘certain people.” Don’t worry, you won’t catch the evilness of negativity and gen X snark.

I actually love snark. I was a card-carrying member of TWOP. (RIP.)

I have no idea what that is, but you seem excited by your membership or former membership.

To be not snarky for a minute- I hate hearing Taylor because her songs are so boring and it feels like the same 3 notes are being drummed into my head. She has zero melody. If she is giving her money away- great but I don think that makes her “generous, hard working and blah blah blah. I love certain artists but I know nothing or little about what they do in their personal lives. She made a cult of personality out of her music and you (already a card carrying fan member of another group) appreciate that . I don’t care one way or another

EXECPT

I can’t just walk away when I’m in giant or at target or even the gas station. All places where I have heard her in the past 2 weeks and her 3 notes over and over again. I can’t walk away from work where my boss quotes her in staff meetings.

“If you're horrible to me, I'm going to write a song about it, and you won't like it. That's how I operate.“
-Taylor swift

She said that and I don’t think that is generous or kind or a role model or who I would want to be like. You say I’m negative, I say I’m tired of people thinking someone who trains her fans to look for Easter eggs and operates by writing mean songs is kind generous and nice.

TWOP was ground zero for Gen Z(+) snark more than 2 decades ago. Truly some masterpieces there.

I guess your post did make me realize that you (general you) have to give up some level of cynicism (the mark of Gen Z) and snark to fully embrace Taylor and her music. At least I did. Until TTPD, there was a certain level of awkward to her. I didn't appreciate her until, and I hate to admit this, I listened to Ryan Adam's cover album of 1989. I saw her writing in a whole new light. It think it was some level of internal misogyny mixed with doubt that a pretty blonde girl in her 20s could be that deep/talented but also pop. Right now the talented women ARE in pop - Taylor, Chappell, Charli, etc. Taylor was country first because it aligned better with her songwriting skills and age.

I think you mean GenX, not Z.

I thought the target of that show was millennials not gen x- gen x was already knee deep in babies and careers by the early oughts. Maybe I’m just showing my age!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Vengeance is certainly one theme in her music but she has many others. Just focusing on that to sum her up is pretty reductive.

It had got to be over 50% of her catalog at least. All the ex lover songs plus all the i hate scooter songs plus all the Kim/kanye hate songs add up. Her ex lover songs alone are a third of her catalog. There are top ten/top 20 charts of her vengeful songs which goes to show you it is a big part of her music.

How you reconcile that quote:

If you're horrible to me, I'm going to write a song about it, and you won't like it. That's how I operate.”

― Taylor Swift

with generous and kind?

The argument that it isn’t everything she writes is weak to me because I have plotted to be mean to someone like that. I see it as mean girl lack of empathy and lashing out rather than understanding the others point of view and working it out either with distance or with talking.

Likewise the argument that it is internalized misogyny to suggest a woman can be angry and draw boundaries without being mean is ridiculous. Expressing anger and your opinion without lashing out is a cornerstone of civilization and democracy. That is the skill I want to pass on to my kids of both genders, not the gift of seeking to make others feel bad because they hurt you.