Gaza War, Part 3

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:You don’t get to subjugate people for over 70 years, regularly kill their youths, deny their basic human rights, and then feign surprise when they periodically respond in a barbaric manner.

The world sees what Israel has done with American support, and the global revulsion towards Israel grows every day. It will also isolate the U.S. on the global stage and strengthen the hands of China and Russia.

Unless Israel turns a new leaf very soon, we should cease providing them with any support. Let the Jews and the Palestinians fight it out on a level playing field and not one in which Israel knows it can get away with any type of killing and repression and still avoid sanctions due to American support and intervention.

I am beyond disgusted my tax dollars go to support this filthy, depraved Zionist killing machine.


Oh my. You are someone I would walk miles to avoid. And btw? HAMAS has been in control of Gaza since 2007, and has always had the complete genocide of Jews as their goal, first and foremost. They are entirely to blame for any hardships the Palestinian people have dealt with. Educate yourself.

JERUSALEM (AP) — In the three and a half decades since it began as an underground militant group, Hamas has pursued a consistently violent strategy aimed at rolling back Israeli rule — and it has made steady progress despite bringing enormous suffering to both sides of the conflict.

From its establishment in the late 1980s, on the eve of the first Palestinian intifada, or uprising, Hamas has been committed to armed struggle and the destruction of Israel. At the height of the peace process in the 1990s, it launched scores of suicide bombings and other attacks that killed hundreds of Israeli civilians. The violence only intensified with the breakdown in peace talks and the far deadlier second Palestinian uprising in 2000.

https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-hamas-conflict-endgame-1bfcc187d826596e78090ec6cbf6516c
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Anonymous wrote:did anyone see the new survey that shows 72% of palestinians support Hamas's actions on Oct 7? https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/21/middleeast/palestinians-back-hamas-survey-intl-cmd/index.html


If the IDF hurt one of my children, I regret to say that I'd probably do more than support Hamas. After the IDF has killed and mutilated, displaced, and starved so many Palestinians, I'm surprised that number is as low as 72%.


Yes. This. Israel’s outsized response is only servicing to make Jews less safe worldwide. If you think IDF’s response has been justified based on 1200 deaths and 250 kidnapped victims, just imagine what the Palestinians want to do to Israelis for 20x that amount of suffering.


Wow. What both of you numbskulls conveniently ignore is the FACT that Hamas brutally mutilated, tortured, raped, and murdered, children and other innocent civilians FIRST. Why is it so easy for you to totally twist this narrative? Do you know how insane you sound?
DP


It is a mistake to try to assign a “first” in this conflict. You are correct that Hamas carried out a brutal attack on October 7th, but they didn’t spring into existence on October 6th.

https://prospect.org/world/2023-10-20-west-bank-settlements-conflict-gaza/

A very interesting article written by an Israeli author.


That's behind a firewall. At any rate, regardless of Jewish settlements, etc. - Israelis have NOT tortured and raped Palestinian women and children. Hamas are monsters. I hope they're eradicated from the face of the earth.


Just a reminder this is the statement categorically denying Israelis have tortured and raped Palestinian women which is precisely what the Israeli justice system says has taken place.


They’ve raped more Palestinian men than the women because they know men don’t ever speak out about such things


Cool story bro. Make wild accusations with no proof, and then give yourself fake cover by saying "you won't hear about it because it's suppressed / people are being bought off / they won't talk to it because of cultural issues" etc.


Here is a report about a 15 year old boy who was raped and was subjected to torture in the genitalia in 2021 by Israeli forces.

This incident has been mentioned in interviews by Josh Paul, who resigned from the US state department earlier this year.

https://www.dci-palestine.org/israeli_interrogator_sexually_assaults_palestinian_child_detainee


Again for individual reports vs. mass rape event. This is equivalent to when Jeff said about Shani Louk “she had her underwear on”


Ok then say “Israel doesn’t carry out mass rape” and not “Israelis do NOT rape Palestinians”.

Don’t make verifiably false statements and then get defensive when someone tells you they’re false. And really if I were in your shoes I’d take a beat on making either of those claims because we don’t know the full scale of what’s happening right now, and you may find yourself re-defining your parameters for behavior yet again.


You are saying that possibly, Israeli soldiers are mass raping Palestinian women, cutting off breasts, and desecrating the bodies, ie parading their corpses through the streets of Tel Aviv while civilian Israelis are spitting on their dead flesh?


No? I am saying it’s possible there is a larger sexual violence issue with the IDF that we don’t yet know about (due to gag orders and also the lack of reporting from Gaza right now) and so I would continue to advise everyone not to make blanket statements about their behavior which are either verifiably false or have the potential to be proven false later. Stick with what is verifiably true.



The IDF are heroes, and if we had a reasonable leadership in this country people like you blatantly slandering such heroes would be arrested and tried for your crimes.


You believe that it should be a crime in the United States to post verified facts— published by the governments in question— about the conduct of foreign militaries?


They are NOT verified. They were part of a biased opinion piece as shown by the fact that the website has the word ‘Palestine’ in its url.

Posting verifiable facts is not a crime, but terrorizing Jewish people by slandering the IDF is and should be a crime.


It was not an opinion piece but actually a report put out by Defense for Children international- Palestine which is an NGO that works for the rights of children in the West Bank and Gaza.

Shortly after they came out with this report they were designated a terrorist organization by Israel and had their offices raided. Several countries (France, Germany, Sweden among others) said there was no proof of terrorism and would continue to work with them.

This is mentioned in an interview former state department official Josh Paul gave on PBS:

I was part of the human rights vetting process for arms going to Israel. And a charity called Defensive Children

International Palestine drew our attention at the State Department to the sexual assault, actually the rape of a 13-year-old boy that occurred in an

Israeli prison in Moskobiya (ph) in Jerusalem.

We examined these allegations. We believe they were credible. We put them through Israel to the government of Israel. And you know what happened the

next day? The IDF went into the DCIP offices and removed all their computers and declared them a terrorist entity.

Here is the report again:
https://www.dci-palestine.org/israeli_interrogator_sexually_assaults_palestinian_child_detainee

Here is the Josh Paul interview:

https://www.pbs.org/wnet/amanpour-and-company/video/fmr-state-dept-official-on-his-decision-to-leave-after-oct-7-2/
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Anonymous wrote:It's apparently not enough for IDF to kill Palestinians that are still breathing.

They are also razing cemeteries in Gaza.

You do that to a people when you want to erase their memory, their culture, their civilization.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/14/world/middleeast/gaza-cemeteries-damage-israel.html

Israeli ground forces have damaged or destroyed at least six cemeteries during their advance into the northern Gaza Strip, most of them in recent weeks, according to an analysis of new satellite imagery and video footage by The New York Times.

In Gaza City’s Shajaiye neighborhood, where heavy combat raged in recent days, Israeli forces razed part of the Tunisian cemetery to set up a temporary military position. A satellite image from Sunday shows armored vehicles and earthen fortifications on what were intact graves days earlier.

The Israeli military did not respond to questions by The Times about its reason for razing the cemetery and whether it has taken any precautions to protect religious sites in Gaza. The laws of armed conflict consider the intentional destruction of religious sites without military necessity a possible war crime.

Azerbaijan is doing it in Artsakh as we speak, which it cleansed from Armenians using Israeli weapons.


Um... you really want to talk about "war crimes" here? Seriously? After Oct. 7th? Truly unbelievable.

Hey, genius, both Hamas and the IDF can commit war crimes. One side committing war crimes does not mean that the other side is magically incapable of committing them as well.


So on the one hand, we've got horrific rapes, mutilation, kidnapping, and murder... and on the other hand we've got a razed cemetery. Okey doke. Genius.


And twenty thousand dead! Don’t forget. Plus untold damage to the land.



Don’t forget 90% of people displaced… yes, read that again: 90%! Also don’t forget that it will be decades to rebuild Gaza. Israel’s dropped more large bombs than the us did in Iraq and Afghanistan combined. This kind of civilian destruction hasn’t happened since Vietnam. (https://www.cnn.com/gaza-israel-big-bombs/index.html)


Ooh, now tell us about the constant attacks and suicide bombings inflicted by Hamas on Israel, for decades.
Anonymous
We must pressure Israel to agree to a two state solution that Palestinians will never agree to.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:You don’t get to subjugate people for over 70 years, regularly kill their youths, deny their basic human rights, and then feign surprise when they periodically respond in a barbaric manner.

The world sees what Israel has done with American support, and the global revulsion towards Israel grows every day. It will also isolate the U.S. on the global stage and strengthen the hands of China and Russia.

Unless Israel turns a new leaf very soon, we should cease providing them with any support. Let the Jews and the Palestinians fight it out on a level playing field and not one in which Israel knows it can get away with any type of killing and repression and still avoid sanctions due to American support and intervention.

I am beyond disgusted my tax dollars go to support this filthy, depraved Zionist killing machine.


Oh my. You are someone I would walk miles to avoid. And btw? HAMAS has been in control of Gaza since 2007, and has always had the complete genocide of Jews as their goal, first and foremost. They are entirely to blame for any hardships the Palestinian people have dealt with. Educate yourself.

JERUSALEM (AP) — In the three and a half decades since it began as an underground militant group, Hamas has pursued a consistently violent strategy aimed at rolling back Israeli rule — and it has made steady progress despite bringing enormous suffering to both sides of the conflict.

From its establishment in the late 1980s, on the eve of the first Palestinian intifada, or uprising, Hamas has been committed to armed struggle and the destruction of Israel. At the height of the peace process in the 1990s, it launched scores of suicide bombings and other attacks that killed hundreds of Israeli civilians. The violence only intensified with the breakdown in peace talks and the far deadlier second Palestinian uprising in 2000.

https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-hamas-conflict-endgame-1bfcc187d826596e78090ec6cbf6516c


Shove your propaganda up your ass.

Np here. Truth hurts.

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:We must pressure Israel to agree to a two state solution that Palestinians will never agree to.


Because Israel insists on ensuring that offers do not include the return of land they stole via settlements
Anonymous
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Anonymous wrote:It's apparently not enough for IDF to kill Palestinians that are still breathing.

They are also razing cemeteries in Gaza.

You do that to a people when you want to erase their memory, their culture, their civilization.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/14/world/middleeast/gaza-cemeteries-damage-israel.html

Israeli ground forces have damaged or destroyed at least six cemeteries during their advance into the northern Gaza Strip, most of them in recent weeks, according to an analysis of new satellite imagery and video footage by The New York Times.

In Gaza City’s Shajaiye neighborhood, where heavy combat raged in recent days, Israeli forces razed part of the Tunisian cemetery to set up a temporary military position. A satellite image from Sunday shows armored vehicles and earthen fortifications on what were intact graves days earlier.

The Israeli military did not respond to questions by The Times about its reason for razing the cemetery and whether it has taken any precautions to protect religious sites in Gaza. The laws of armed conflict consider the intentional destruction of religious sites without military necessity a possible war crime.

Azerbaijan is doing it in Artsakh as we speak, which it cleansed from Armenians using Israeli weapons.


Um... you really want to talk about "war crimes" here? Seriously? After Oct. 7th? Truly unbelievable.

Hey, genius, both Hamas and the IDF can commit war crimes. One side committing war crimes does not mean that the other side is magically incapable of committing them as well.


So on the one hand, we've got horrific rapes, mutilation, kidnapping, and murder... and on the other hand we've got a razed cemetery. Okey doke. Genius.


And twenty thousand dead! Don’t forget. Plus untold damage to the land.



Don’t forget 90% of people displaced… yes, read that again: 90%! Also don’t forget that it will be decades to rebuild Gaza. Israel’s dropped more large bombs than the us did in Iraq and Afghanistan combined. This kind of civilian destruction hasn’t happened since Vietnam. (https://www.cnn.com/gaza-israel-big-bombs/index.html)


Ooh, now tell us about the constant attacks and suicide bombings inflicted by Hamas on Israel, for decades.


They don't want to face the fact that Hamas continues to send rockets into central Israel and their supporters cheer them on (just take a glance at any social media platform).
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:We must pressure Israel to agree to a two state solution that Palestinians will never agree to.


Because Israel insists on ensuring that offers do not include the return of land they stole via settlements


Paleeeese Palestinian leadership does not want a state. They will immediately lose the refugee status (the only people who inherit the refugee status) and will cease receiving billions of dollars in aid. They don’t want to lose their their $100,000 per month salaries. It’s not happening.
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Anonymous wrote:did anyone see the new survey that shows 72% of palestinians support Hamas's actions on Oct 7? https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/21/middleeast/palestinians-back-hamas-survey-intl-cmd/index.html


If the IDF hurt one of my children, I regret to say that I'd probably do more than support Hamas. After the IDF has killed and mutilated, displaced, and starved so many Palestinians, I'm surprised that number is as low as 72%.


Yes. This. Israel’s outsized response is only servicing to make Jews less safe worldwide. If you think IDF’s response has been justified based on 1200 deaths and 250 kidnapped victims, just imagine what the Palestinians want to do to Israelis for 20x that amount of suffering.


Wow. What both of you numbskulls conveniently ignore is the FACT that Hamas brutally mutilated, tortured, raped, and murdered, children and other innocent civilians FIRST. Why is it so easy for you to totally twist this narrative? Do you know how insane you sound?
DP


It is a mistake to try to assign a “first” in this conflict. You are correct that Hamas carried out a brutal attack on October 7th, but they didn’t spring into existence on October 6th.

https://prospect.org/world/2023-10-20-west-bank-settlements-conflict-gaza/

A very interesting article written by an Israeli author.


That's behind a firewall. At any rate, regardless of Jewish settlements, etc. - Israelis have NOT tortured and raped Palestinian women and children. Hamas are monsters. I hope they're eradicated from the face of the earth.


Just a reminder this is the statement categorically denying Israelis have tortured and raped Palestinian women which is precisely what the Israeli justice system says has taken place.


They’ve raped more Palestinian men than the women because they know men don’t ever speak out about such things


Cool story bro. Make wild accusations with no proof, and then give yourself fake cover by saying "you won't hear about it because it's suppressed / people are being bought off / they won't talk to it because of cultural issues" etc.


Here is a report about a 15 year old boy who was raped and was subjected to torture in the genitalia in 2021 by Israeli forces.

This incident has been mentioned in interviews by Josh Paul, who resigned from the US state department earlier this year.

https://www.dci-palestine.org/israeli_interrogator_sexually_assaults_palestinian_child_detainee


Again for individual reports vs. mass rape event. This is equivalent to when Jeff said about Shani Louk “she had her underwear on”


Ok then say “Israel doesn’t carry out mass rape” and not “Israelis do NOT rape Palestinians”.

Don’t make verifiably false statements and then get defensive when someone tells you they’re false. And really if I were in your shoes I’d take a beat on making either of those claims because we don’t know the full scale of what’s happening right now, and you may find yourself re-defining your parameters for behavior yet again.


You are saying that possibly, Israeli soldiers are mass raping Palestinian women, cutting off breasts, and desecrating the bodies, ie parading their corpses through the streets of Tel Aviv while civilian Israelis are spitting on their dead flesh?


No? I am saying it’s possible there is a larger sexual violence issue with the IDF that we don’t yet know about (due to gag orders and also the lack of reporting from Gaza right now) and so I would continue to advise everyone not to make blanket statements about their behavior which are either verifiably false or have the potential to be proven false later. Stick with what is verifiably true.



The IDF are heroes, and if we had a reasonable leadership in this country people like you blatantly slandering such heroes would be arrested and tried for your crimes.


You believe that it should be a crime in the United States to post verified facts— published by the governments in question— about the conduct of foreign militaries?


They are NOT verified. They were part of a biased opinion piece as shown by the fact that the website has the word ‘Palestine’ in its url.

Posting verifiable facts is not a crime, but terrorizing Jewish people by slandering the IDF is and should be a crime.


It was not an opinion piece but actually a report put out by Defense for Children international- Palestine which is an NGO that works for the rights of children in the West Bank and Gaza.

Shortly after they came out with this report they were designated a terrorist organization by Israel and had their offices raided. Several countries (France, Germany, Sweden among others) said there was no proof of terrorism and would continue to work with them.

This is mentioned in an interview former state department official Josh Paul gave on PBS:

I was part of the human rights vetting process for arms going to Israel. And a charity called Defensive Children

International Palestine drew our attention at the State Department to the sexual assault, actually the rape of a 13-year-old boy that occurred in an

Israeli prison in Moskobiya (ph) in Jerusalem.

We examined these allegations. We believe they were credible. We put them through Israel to the government of Israel. And you know what happened the

next day? The IDF went into the DCIP offices and removed all their computers and declared them a terrorist entity.

Here is the report again:
https://www.dci-palestine.org/israeli_interrogator_sexually_assaults_palestinian_child_detainee

Here is the Josh Paul interview:

https://www.pbs.org/wnet/amanpour-and-company/video/fmr-state-dept-official-on-his-decision-to-leave-after-oct-7-2/


So you admit that Israel determined that the group making this allegation was found to be a terrorist organization by Israel, right?

So why should I read their report if they are a terrorist organization? As I said in my first post, it is clearly biased.
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Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:did anyone see the new survey that shows 72% of palestinians support Hamas's actions on Oct 7? https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/21/middleeast/palestinians-back-hamas-survey-intl-cmd/index.html


If the IDF hurt one of my children, I regret to say that I'd probably do more than support Hamas. After the IDF has killed and mutilated, displaced, and starved so many Palestinians, I'm surprised that number is as low as 72%.


Yes. This. Israel’s outsized response is only servicing to make Jews less safe worldwide. If you think IDF’s response has been justified based on 1200 deaths and 250 kidnapped victims, just imagine what the Palestinians want to do to Israelis for 20x that amount of suffering.


Wow. What both of you numbskulls conveniently ignore is the FACT that Hamas brutally mutilated, tortured, raped, and murdered, children and other innocent civilians FIRST. Why is it so easy for you to totally twist this narrative? Do you know how insane you sound?
DP


It is a mistake to try to assign a “first” in this conflict. You are correct that Hamas carried out a brutal attack on October 7th, but they didn’t spring into existence on October 6th.

https://prospect.org/world/2023-10-20-west-bank-settlements-conflict-gaza/

A very interesting article written by an Israeli author.


That's behind a firewall. At any rate, regardless of Jewish settlements, etc. - Israelis have NOT tortured and raped Palestinian women and children. Hamas are monsters. I hope they're eradicated from the face of the earth.


The bolded is not true.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-officer-who-raped-palestinian-was-not-dismissed-for-earlier-sexual-offenses/


Well, look at you! You found one IDF soldier who raped one Palestinian woman - almost six years ago. Bravo? Now tell us all about the dozens of Israeli women Hamas brutally mutilated, raped and/or murdered. Read this (if you dare) and then get back to us, you utter moron.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67629181


You didn’t read the article did you?


“The officer was found to have raped one Palestinian woman, who had come to him to receive a permit to work in Israel, on at least two occasions. He also repeatedly sexually harassed her, trying to get her to have sex with other people as well.

The military court, based in part on audio recordings that the woman made, determined that in the first instance of rape, the officer had forced her to have sex with him and then made her clean up the floor afterwards, before giving her the work permit.

A few days later, he called her and told her that he had rescinded the permit and again forced her to have sex with him in order to get it back.

In both cases, the Palestinian woman refused his demands for sex, and in both cases, he threatened to take away her work permit if she told anyone about the rape.

He was also convicted of receiving a bribe by forcing another Palestinian woman to have sex with him multiple times in exchange for a work permit. Despite the clear power imbalance, this was not deemed to have been rape as the victim did not explicitly refuse his demands for sex.”

So tell me, you believe one Israeli soldier raping and coercing at least two Palestinian women is fine. What is the number at which rape becomes unacceptable to you?

What is the number of civilian casualties before indiscriminate bombing becomes unacceptable to you?

Because it seems from your attitude the answer is — the limit does not exist so long as the victims are Palestinians. So just say so. Don’t play games that you suddenly care about rape or the abuse of children.



What the soldier did was horrible. But! he was caught and brought to justice. The rapes of Israeli women by Hamas animals was celebrated in Gaza. None of the terrorists would have bet face justice unless Israel brought it upon them. In fact, WB pays the terrorists salary for life and to their families when the terrorist
are “martyred”


In your last three posts you’ve gone from “Israelis do NOT rape Palestinians” to “it only ever happened once” to “it’s fine when the Israelis do because this particular individual went to jail”. Do you think his is the only such case?

Rape isn’t justified. Period. It’s barbaric when Hamas does it and it’s barbaric when the Israelis do it. The difference is that one is a group globally recognized as terrorists and one is a country absolutely insisting they care about civilians and then behaving counter to those statements.


DP. You are talking to several different posters. And it is absolutely disgusting that you refuse to acknowledge what horrific atrocities Hamas perpetrated on Jewish women and girls. It wasn't JUST rape, though that's bad enough. Here's just a sampling. Now please shut up with your ONE example of an IDF soldier coercing a woman into having sex with him in return for a work permit. As if there's ANY comparison at all.

In the video, the woman known as Witness S mimes the attackers picking up and passing the victim from one to another.

"She was alive," the witness says. "She was bleeding from her back."

She goes on to detail how the men cut off parts of the victim's body during the assault.

"They sliced her breast and threw it on the street," she says. "They were playing with it."

The victim was passed to another man in uniform, she continues.

"He penetrated her, and shot her in the head before he finished. He didn't even pick up his pants; he shoots and ejaculates."

One man we spoke to from the festival site said he heard the "noises and screams of people being murdered, raped, decapitated".

To our question about how he could be sure - without seeing it - that the screams he heard indicated sexual assault rather than other kinds of violence, he said he believed while listening at the time that it could only have been rape.

A statement he made through a support organisation describes it as "inhuman".

"Some women were raped before they were dead, some raped while injured, and some were already dead when the terrorists raped their lifeless bodies," his statement says. "I desperately wanted to help, but there was nothing I could do."

Multiple photographs from the sites after the attack show the bodies of women naked from the waist down, or with their underwear ripped to one side, legs splayed, with signs of trauma to their genitals and legs.

"It really feels like Hamas learned how to weaponise women's bodies from ISIS [the Islamic State group] in Iraq, from cases in Bosnia," said Dr Cochav Elkayam-Levy, a legal expert at the Davis Institute of International Relations at Hebrew University.

"It brings me chills just to know the details that they knew about what to do to women: cut their organs, mutilate their genitals, rape. It's horrifying to know this."

"I spoke with at least three girls who are now hospitalised for a very hard psychiatric situation because of the rapes they watched," Minister May Golan told me. "They pretended to be dead and they watched it, and heard everything. And they can't deal with it."

Israel's police chief Yaacov Shabtai said that many survivors of the attacks were finding it difficult to talk and that he thought some of them would never testify about what they saw or experienced.

"Eighteen young men and women have been hospitalised in mental health hospitals because they could no longer function," he said.

Others are reportedly suicidal. One of those working with the teams around survivors told the BBC that some had already killed themselves.

Much of the evidence has come from the volunteer body-collectors deployed after the attacks, and those who handled the bodies once they arrived at the Shura army base for identification.

One of the body-collectors volunteering with the religious organisation Zaka described to me signs of torture and mutilation which included, he said, a pregnant woman whose womb had been ripped open before she was killed, and her foetus stabbed while it was inside her.

"One was sexually terrorised with a knife stuck in her vagina and all her internal organs removed," his statement says.

At the festival site, he says small shelters were "filled with piles of women. Their clothing was torn on the upper part, but their bottoms were completely naked. Piles and piles of women. […] When you took a closer look at their heads, you saw a single shot straight to the brain of each."

Hundreds of bodies were collected from the attack sites by volunteers.

"For the first five days, we still had terrorists on the ground in Israel," May Golan said. "And there were hundreds, hundreds of bodies everywhere. They were burned, they were without organs, they were butchered completely."

"This was a mass casualty event," police spokesman Dean Elsdunne told journalists at a briefing.

Teams here told us they'd seen clear evidence of rape and sexual violence on the bodies coming in, including broken pelvises from sustained violent abuse.

"We see women of all ages," one of the reservists on the forensic team, Captain Maayan, told the BBC. "We see rape victims. We see women who have been through violation. We have pathologists and we see the bruises, we learn about the cuts and tears, and we know they have been sexually abused."

I ask her what proportion of the bodies she's handled show signs of this.

"Abundant," she said. "Abundant amount of women and girls of all ages."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67629181


You're quoting things that in many cases have already been debunked.

Most of the graphic stories of rape and mutilation come from Zaka, an organization with no coroner credentials staffed by poorly trained, extremely religious volunteers who depend on fundraising, which in turn depends on good stories. The leader of Zaka was known as Israel's Jeffrey Epstein for his predatory sexual habits he visited on both girls and boys.

Many stories they told turned out to be outright falsehood. Forty beheaded babies, dead babies on a laundry line - remember that for each of these stories, multiple people in positions of authority stood up and said "I saw it with my own eyes", only to later retract and to say that in fact they didn't.

Pregnant woman in Be'eri with her stomach cut open and fetus stabbed: according to the official records of the dead, no one in Be'eri was pregnant.

Two teenage sisters raped and killed next to each other: there are no sibling pairs in Be'eri who match this description. The only pair of twin sisters, 12-year olds, were killed by Israeli tank shells.

Women raped with "all of their internal organs removed"? Like, ALL of them? How long would that even take?

On and on.

"In an October 12 interview with the Israeli Foreign Ministry-funded i24 channel, Landau claimed that upon entering a home in Kibbutz Beeri, “we see a pregnant lady lying on the floor, and then we turn her around and see that the stomach is cut open, wide open. The unborn baby, still connected with an umbilical cord, was stabbed with a knife. And the mother was shot in the head. And you use your imagination, trying to figure out what came first.”

Landau appears to have crafted this testimony based on a rumor that an anonymous military source spread online two days prior. According to the source, the supposedly pregnant victim was 30 years old. This alone discredited Landau’s claim, because the only female victims recorded in or around Beeri were 44-year-old Rinat Segev Even and 22-year-old Tair Bira — and neither were pregnant. In fact, no pregnant women were registered among those killed on October 7.

Kibbutz Beeri tacitly denied Landau’s claims in a December 3 statement to the Israeli paper Haaretz, declaring, “the story of the pregnant woman reported by ZAKA is not relevant to Beeri.” As one source involved in examining the bodies explained to the outlet, “the volunteers are not pathology experts and have no professional tools to identify the murdered person and his age, or to declare the manner in which he was slaughtered.” For their part, Israeli police assert they have no record of the incident.

Landau’s almost absurdly graphic fable was nevertheless amplified by the Israeli military’s official social media account, which claimed to possess photos of the crime that it could not publish over concerns they risked violating Twitter/X’s terms of use. Despite Israel’s eagerness to exhibit the atrocities of October 7 no matter how grisly, the photos do not seem to have materialized in any forum. "

In a desperate bid to validate Landau’s dubious claims, an Israeli social media user created a video combining the ZAKA volunteer’s testimony with footage of a Mexican drug cartel torturing a prisoner to death. The fake video quickly went viral in Hebrew social media circles, even attracting the attention of Israeli President Isaac Herzog’s wife. In a November 22 op-ed for Newsweek, Israeli First Lady Michal Herzog asserted that “a Hamas video from a kibbutz shows terrorists torturing a pregnant woman and removing her fetus.”

Of course, no such video existed. The only source was Landau, the master storyteller from ZAKA.

Meanwhile, Landau insisted that he “saw 20 children shot, burned and piled together in two piles.” He added that the children’s hands had been tied before they were supposedly burned by Hamas militants. Yet this was an absolute impossibility, as a total of 13 children were killed during the October 7 attack—and the most found in a single location was 3. And as The Grayzone previously revealed, the largest pile of burned Israeli bodies in Kibbutz Beeri were scorched after the Israeli military decided to deliberately shell a home filled with 13 Israeli captives.

Landau then told i24 that he stepped into a neighboring house and witnessed yet another gut-wrenching atrocity: “In the living room we see two parents, mother and father, with hands tied behind their backs. Lying by their side were two small children, with their hands also tied behind their back. They were all burned to death. The terrorists were sitting at the table and eating while they torched them to death.”

The bogus testimony quickly reverberated on Washington’s Capitol Hill, where it was repeated almost word-for-word by Secretary of State Blinken during an October 31 Senate hearing. As explained above, there is simply no record of any children killed in the manner Landau described, or any dead matching the ages of 6 and 7 which he claimed. (Blinken said they were 6 and 8). The closest match among all those killed on October 7 was Eitan and Alin Kapshitter, who were 5 and 8 years old, respectively. They were not killed in a house, however, but in a car when their parents tragically drove into the crossfire of Israeli and Hamas forces by mistake.

As Landau’s macabre tales generated international headlines, his colleague at ZAKA, Simcha Dizingoff, spouted off a few made-for-foreign-media-consumption stories of his own. Describing an October 11 visit to Kfar Aza, Dizingoff told The Guardian that he saw “a woman, naked from the waist down, [who] had been bent over a bed and then shot in the back of the head. When the team tried to move her, a live grenade rolled out of her clenched hand.”

Considering the Israeli army had already cleared the kibbutz by October 11, his account raised serious questions. How did the army’s bomb disposal experts miss a live grenade in the hand of a naked woman splayed out over a bed? And why has Israel’s newly formed “Civil Commission on Oct 7th Crimes by Hamas against Women and Children,” which is frantically searching for any shred of evidence implicating Hamas in mass rape, so far failed to mention this shocking incident?

Yet Dizingoff’s feverish imagination kept churning, as he claimed to have seen “one child, aged about six, had been killed by a knife plunged into his skull.”

The official record of deaths from Kfar Aza shows that no child younger than 14 was killed in the kibbutz, making Dizingoff’s version of events virtually impossible. As with the graphic fables spun by Landau, Dizengoff provided no documentation to back up his claims — no cellphone photos, forensic evidence, or even corroborating testimony.

As cynical as the ZAKA fabrications may seem, they were entirely consistent with the ethos of the organization and its founder: a serial sex abuser who funneled millions from donors into his own decadent pursuits.

You must realize when the tales of atrocity porn are told and retold, that you're being told this story because the source wants to get a certain reaction out of you.


“Believe women. Except Jewish women!”

I guess it is easy to ignore Jewish women when you just can’t figure out why they won’t just sit down and die already. Sick, sick individual.


This is not about women. This is about propaganda used in war. The stories told by men of horrific torture rape and killings of women have been debunked. When he claimed to have seen 20 children shot and burned, he was lying as Israel confirms 13 children were killed.

The truth in all this is bad enough. Trying to justify the continued aggression and murdering of civilians is heinous.
Anonymous
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Anonymous wrote:It's apparently not enough for IDF to kill Palestinians that are still breathing.

They are also razing cemeteries in Gaza.

You do that to a people when you want to erase their memory, their culture, their civilization.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/14/world/middleeast/gaza-cemeteries-damage-israel.html

Israeli ground forces have damaged or destroyed at least six cemeteries during their advance into the northern Gaza Strip, most of them in recent weeks, according to an analysis of new satellite imagery and video footage by The New York Times.

In Gaza City’s Shajaiye neighborhood, where heavy combat raged in recent days, Israeli forces razed part of the Tunisian cemetery to set up a temporary military position. A satellite image from Sunday shows armored vehicles and earthen fortifications on what were intact graves days earlier.

The Israeli military did not respond to questions by The Times about its reason for razing the cemetery and whether it has taken any precautions to protect religious sites in Gaza. The laws of armed conflict consider the intentional destruction of religious sites without military necessity a possible war crime.

Azerbaijan is doing it in Artsakh as we speak, which it cleansed from Armenians using Israeli weapons.


Um... you really want to talk about "war crimes" here? Seriously? After Oct. 7th? Truly unbelievable.

Hey, genius, both Hamas and the IDF can commit war crimes. One side committing war crimes does not mean that the other side is magically incapable of committing them as well.


So on the one hand, we've got horrific rapes, mutilation, kidnapping, and murder... and on the other hand we've got a razed cemetery. Okey doke. Genius.


And twenty thousand dead! Don’t forget. Plus untold damage to the land.



Don’t forget 90% of people displaced… yes, read that again: 90%! Also don’t forget that it will be decades to rebuild Gaza. Israel’s dropped more large bombs than the us did in Iraq and Afghanistan combined. This kind of civilian destruction hasn’t happened since Vietnam. (https://www.cnn.com/gaza-israel-big-bombs/index.html)


Ooh, now tell us about the [b]constant attacks and suicide bombings inflicted by Hamas on Israel, for decades.

[/b]
+1
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Anonymous wrote:did anyone see the new survey that shows 72% of palestinians support Hamas's actions on Oct 7? https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/21/middleeast/palestinians-back-hamas-survey-intl-cmd/index.html


If the IDF hurt one of my children, I regret to say that I'd probably do more than support Hamas. After the IDF has killed and mutilated, displaced, and starved so many Palestinians, I'm surprised that number is as low as 72%.


Yes. This. Israel’s outsized response is only servicing to make Jews less safe worldwide. If you think IDF’s response has been justified based on 1200 deaths and 250 kidnapped victims, just imagine what the Palestinians want to do to Israelis for 20x that amount of suffering.


Wow. What both of you numbskulls conveniently ignore is the FACT that Hamas brutally mutilated, tortured, raped, and murdered, children and other innocent civilians FIRST. Why is it so easy for you to totally twist this narrative? Do you know how insane you sound?
DP


It is a mistake to try to assign a “first” in this conflict. You are correct that Hamas carried out a brutal attack on October 7th, but they didn’t spring into existence on October 6th.

https://prospect.org/world/2023-10-20-west-bank-settlements-conflict-gaza/

A very interesting article written by an Israeli author.


That's behind a firewall. At any rate, regardless of Jewish settlements, etc. - Israelis have NOT tortured and raped Palestinian women and children. Hamas are monsters. I hope they're eradicated from the face of the earth.


Just a reminder this is the statement categorically denying Israelis have tortured and raped Palestinian women which is precisely what the Israeli justice system says has taken place.


They’ve raped more Palestinian men than the women because they know men don’t ever speak out about such things


Cool story bro. Make wild accusations with no proof, and then give yourself fake cover by saying "you won't hear about it because it's suppressed / people are being bought off / they won't talk to it because of cultural issues" etc.


Here is a report about a 15 year old boy who was raped and was subjected to torture in the genitalia in 2021 by Israeli forces.

This incident has been mentioned in interviews by Josh Paul, who resigned from the US state department earlier this year.

https://www.dci-palestine.org/israeli_interrogator_sexually_assaults_palestinian_child_detainee


Again for individual reports vs. mass rape event. This is equivalent to when Jeff said about Shani Louk “she had her underwear on”


Ok then say “Israel doesn’t carry out mass rape” and not “Israelis do NOT rape Palestinians”.

Don’t make verifiably false statements and then get defensive when someone tells you they’re false. And really if I were in your shoes I’d take a beat on making either of those claims because we don’t know the full scale of what’s happening right now, and you may find yourself re-defining your parameters for behavior yet again.


You are saying that possibly, Israeli soldiers are mass raping Palestinian women, cutting off breasts, and desecrating the bodies, ie parading their corpses through the streets of Tel Aviv while civilian Israelis are spitting on their dead flesh?


No? I am saying it’s possible there is a larger sexual violence issue with the IDF that we don’t yet know about (due to gag orders and also the lack of reporting from Gaza right now) and so I would continue to advise everyone not to make blanket statements about their behavior which are either verifiably false or have the potential to be proven false later. Stick with what is verifiably true.



The IDF are heroes, and if we had a reasonable leadership in this country people like you blatantly slandering such heroes would be arrested and tried for your crimes.


You believe that it should be a crime in the United States to post verified facts— published by the governments in question— about the conduct of foreign militaries?


They are NOT verified. They were part of a biased opinion piece as shown by the fact that the website has the word ‘Palestine’ in its url.

Posting verifiable facts is not a crime, but terrorizing Jewish people by slandering the IDF is and should be a crime.


It was not an opinion piece but actually a report put out by Defense for Children international- Palestine which is an NGO that works for the rights of children in the West Bank and Gaza.

Shortly after they came out with this report they were designated a terrorist organization by Israel and had their offices raided. Several countries (France, Germany, Sweden among others) said there was no proof of terrorism and would continue to work with them.

This is mentioned in an interview former state department official Josh Paul gave on PBS:

I was part of the human rights vetting process for arms going to Israel. And a charity called Defensive Children

International Palestine drew our attention at the State Department to the sexual assault, actually the rape of a 13-year-old boy that occurred in an

Israeli prison in Moskobiya (ph) in Jerusalem.

We examined these allegations. We believe they were credible. We put them through Israel to the government of Israel. And you know what happened the

next day? The IDF went into the DCIP offices and removed all their computers and declared them a terrorist entity.

Here is the report again:
https://www.dci-palestine.org/israeli_interrogator_sexually_assaults_palestinian_child_detainee

Here is the Josh Paul interview:

https://www.pbs.org/wnet/amanpour-and-company/video/fmr-state-dept-official-on-his-decision-to-leave-after-oct-7-2/


So you admit that Israel determined that the group making this allegation was found to be a terrorist organization by Israel, right?

So why should I read their report if they are a terrorist organization? As I said in my first post, it is clearly biased.


It is just so interesting that Israel declared them a terrorist organization right after they came up with an unflattering report.

LOL Putin and Bibi all do the same thing. When they don't like what someone says, they declare him a terrorist or a foreign agent or whatever.
Anonymous
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Anonymous wrote:did anyone see the new survey that shows 72% of palestinians support Hamas's actions on Oct 7? https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/21/middleeast/palestinians-back-hamas-survey-intl-cmd/index.html


If the IDF hurt one of my children, I regret to say that I'd probably do more than support Hamas. After the IDF has killed and mutilated, displaced, and starved so many Palestinians, I'm surprised that number is as low as 72%.


Yes. This. Israel’s outsized response is only servicing to make Jews less safe worldwide. If you think IDF’s response has been justified based on 1200 deaths and 250 kidnapped victims, just imagine what the Palestinians want to do to Israelis for 20x that amount of suffering.


Wow. What both of you numbskulls conveniently ignore is the FACT that Hamas brutally mutilated, tortured, raped, and murdered, children and other innocent civilians FIRST. Why is it so easy for you to totally twist this narrative? Do you know how insane you sound?
DP


It is a mistake to try to assign a “first” in this conflict. You are correct that Hamas carried out a brutal attack on October 7th, but they didn’t spring into existence on October 6th.

https://prospect.org/world/2023-10-20-west-bank-settlements-conflict-gaza/

A very interesting article written by an Israeli author.


That's behind a firewall. At any rate, regardless of Jewish settlements, etc. - Israelis have NOT tortured and raped Palestinian women and children. Hamas are monsters. I hope they're eradicated from the face of the earth.


Just a reminder this is the statement categorically denying Israelis have tortured and raped Palestinian women which is precisely what the Israeli justice system says has taken place.


They’ve raped more Palestinian men than the women because they know men don’t ever speak out about such things


Cool story bro. Make wild accusations with no proof, and then give yourself fake cover by saying "you won't hear about it because it's suppressed / people are being bought off / they won't talk to it because of cultural issues" etc.


Here is a report about a 15 year old boy who was raped and was subjected to torture in the genitalia in 2021 by Israeli forces.

This incident has been mentioned in interviews by Josh Paul, who resigned from the US state department earlier this year.

https://www.dci-palestine.org/israeli_interrogator_sexually_assaults_palestinian_child_detainee


Again for individual reports vs. mass rape event. This is equivalent to when Jeff said about Shani Louk “she had her underwear on”


Ok then say “Israel doesn’t carry out mass rape” and not “Israelis do NOT rape Palestinians”.

Don’t make verifiably false statements and then get defensive when someone tells you they’re false. And really if I were in your shoes I’d take a beat on making either of those claims because we don’t know the full scale of what’s happening right now, and you may find yourself re-defining your parameters for behavior yet again.


You are saying that possibly, Israeli soldiers are mass raping Palestinian women, cutting off breasts, and desecrating the bodies, ie parading their corpses through the streets of Tel Aviv while civilian Israelis are spitting on their dead flesh?


No? I am saying it’s possible there is a larger sexual violence issue with the IDF that we don’t yet know about (due to gag orders and also the lack of reporting from Gaza right now) and so I would continue to advise everyone not to make blanket statements about their behavior which are either verifiably false or have the potential to be proven false later. Stick with what is verifiably true.



The IDF are heroes, and if we had a reasonable leadership in this country people like you blatantly slandering such heroes would be arrested and tried for your crimes.


You believe that it should be a crime in the United States to post verified facts— published by the governments in question— about the conduct of foreign militaries?


They are NOT verified. They were part of a biased opinion piece as shown by the fact that the website has the word ‘Palestine’ in its url.

Posting verifiable facts is not a crime, but terrorizing Jewish people by slandering the IDF is and should be a crime.


The delicious irony of calling a source biased because it has the word “Palestine” in it and demanding proof from the Times of ISRAEL or JERUSALEM Post instead.

Please continue , don’t ever change.


Not that PP, but I won't read or believe any of the crap you're posting unless it comes from a reputable news source, such as AP News, Reuters, NYT, WSJ, or WaPo.


I don't care what you read or believe. I don't post this to convince you.

https://www.ynetnews.com/magazine/article/BkFIIVT7u

Remember the earnest ZAKA, this not-to-be-doubted organization that gifted us the story of beheaded babies, babies on a laundry line, pregnant women with their stomachs open and god knows what else? Uh-huh.

As more accusations of sexual misconduct against former ZAKA chairman Yehuda Meshi-Zahav keep pouring in from both men and women, voices within the ultra-Orthodox community are trying to distance themselves from the veteran first responder, likening him to disgraced U.S. financier Jefferey Epstein who became notorious for grooming minors for his own pleasure.

The sheer amount of accusations leveled against Meshi-Zahav and rumors that his alleged actions were an open secret within the community raised questions about the functioning of the sector's modesty patrols — vigilante gangs that act to enforce a code of modesty among the Haredi public through violence and intimidation.

'Yehuda Meshi-Zahav was the Haredi Jeffrey Esptein'

Residents of Jerusalem's Mea Shearim neighborhood, Meshi-Zahav's birthplace, say they weren't surprised to learn about his alleged mischiefs, claiming that new accusations are 'just the tip of the iceberg' and that community leaders even considered castrating him once.

As more accusations of sexual misconduct against former ZAKA chairman Yehuda Meshi-Zahav keep pouring in from both men and women, voices within the ultra-Orthodox community are trying to distance themselves from the veteran first responder, likening him to disgraced U.S. financier Jefferey Epstein who became notorious for grooming minors for his own pleasure.

The sheer amount of accusations leveled against Meshi-Zahav and rumors that his alleged actions were an open secret within the community raised questions about the functioning of the sector's modesty patrols — vigilante gangs that act to enforce a code of modesty among the Haredi public through violence and intimidation.

In Jerusalem's Mea Shearim neighborhood, where Meshi Zahav was raised and spent most of his life, these groups usually refrain from turning to authorities in cases of sexual misconduct as they do not recognize the State of Israel (LOL!!!!). But they don't turn a blind eye, either.

A member of one such group, called the Committee for Preserving Our Camp's Purity, spoke to Ynet on condition of anonymity and said that Meshi-Zahav's deeds were well known across the neighborhood, but the conventional communal systems did not know how or could handle him.

"Meshi[-Zahav] was a despicable man and everyone in Mea Shearim knew it," he said. "Everyone's been talking about it since I was born, and I personally know names of people who have slept with him. It's no secret. We're talking about loads of people.

For him, everything goes – women, children, boys and girls, and if animals could talk and tell their stories, I've no doubt we would've found out he was playing around with them too. Everything that moves, essentially."
Anonymous
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Anonymous wrote:did anyone see the new survey that shows 72% of palestinians support Hamas's actions on Oct 7? https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/21/middleeast/palestinians-back-hamas-survey-intl-cmd/index.html


If the IDF hurt one of my children, I regret to say that I'd probably do more than support Hamas. After the IDF has killed and mutilated, displaced, and starved so many Palestinians, I'm surprised that number is as low as 72%.


Yes. This. Israel’s outsized response is only servicing to make Jews less safe worldwide. If you think IDF’s response has been justified based on 1200 deaths and 250 kidnapped victims, just imagine what the Palestinians want to do to Israelis for 20x that amount of suffering.


Wow. What both of you numbskulls conveniently ignore is the FACT that Hamas brutally mutilated, tortured, raped, and murdered, children and other innocent civilians FIRST. Why is it so easy for you to totally twist this narrative? Do you know how insane you sound?
DP


It is a mistake to try to assign a “first” in this conflict. You are correct that Hamas carried out a brutal attack on October 7th, but they didn’t spring into existence on October 6th.

https://prospect.org/world/2023-10-20-west-bank-settlements-conflict-gaza/

A very interesting article written by an Israeli author.


That's behind a firewall. At any rate, regardless of Jewish settlements, etc. - Israelis have NOT tortured and raped Palestinian women and children. Hamas are monsters. I hope they're eradicated from the face of the earth.


Just a reminder this is the statement categorically denying Israelis have tortured and raped Palestinian women which is precisely what the Israeli justice system says has taken place.


They’ve raped more Palestinian men than the women because they know men don’t ever speak out about such things


Cool story bro. Make wild accusations with no proof, and then give yourself fake cover by saying "you won't hear about it because it's suppressed / people are being bought off / they won't talk to it because of cultural issues" etc.


Here is a report about a 15 year old boy who was raped and was subjected to torture in the genitalia in 2021 by Israeli forces.

This incident has been mentioned in interviews by Josh Paul, who resigned from the US state department earlier this year.

https://www.dci-palestine.org/israeli_interrogator_sexually_assaults_palestinian_child_detainee


Again for individual reports vs. mass rape event. This is equivalent to when Jeff said about Shani Louk “she had her underwear on”


Ok then say “Israel doesn’t carry out mass rape” and not “Israelis do NOT rape Palestinians”.

Don’t make verifiably false statements and then get defensive when someone tells you they’re false. And really if I were in your shoes I’d take a beat on making either of those claims because we don’t know the full scale of what’s happening right now, and you may find yourself re-defining your parameters for behavior yet again.


You are saying that possibly, Israeli soldiers are mass raping Palestinian women, cutting off breasts, and desecrating the bodies, ie parading their corpses through the streets of Tel Aviv while civilian Israelis are spitting on their dead flesh?


No? I am saying it’s possible there is a larger sexual violence issue with the IDF that we don’t yet know about (due to gag orders and also the lack of reporting from Gaza right now) and so I would continue to advise everyone not to make blanket statements about their behavior which are either verifiably false or have the potential to be proven false later. Stick with what is verifiably true.



The IDF are heroes, and if we had a reasonable leadership in this country people like you blatantly slandering such heroes would be arrested and tried for your crimes.


You believe that it should be a crime in the United States to post verified facts— published by the governments in question— about the conduct of foreign militaries?


They are NOT verified. They were part of a biased opinion piece as shown by the fact that the website has the word ‘Palestine’ in its url.

Posting verifiable facts is not a crime, but terrorizing Jewish people by slandering the IDF is and should be a crime.


It was not an opinion piece but actually a report put out by Defense for Children international- Palestine which is an NGO that works for the rights of children in the West Bank and Gaza.

Shortly after they came out with this report they were designated a terrorist organization by Israel and had their offices raided. Several countries (France, Germany, Sweden among others) said there was no proof of terrorism and would continue to work with them.

This is mentioned in an interview former state department official Josh Paul gave on PBS:

I was part of the human rights vetting process for arms going to Israel. And a charity called Defensive Children

International Palestine drew our attention at the State Department to the sexual assault, actually the rape of a 13-year-old boy that occurred in an

Israeli prison in Moskobiya (ph) in Jerusalem.

We examined these allegations. We believe they were credible. We put them through Israel to the government of Israel. And you know what happened the

next day? The IDF went into the DCIP offices and removed all their computers and declared them a terrorist entity.

Here is the report again:
https://www.dci-palestine.org/israeli_interrogator_sexually_assaults_palestinian_child_detainee

Here is the Josh Paul interview:

https://www.pbs.org/wnet/amanpour-and-company/video/fmr-state-dept-official-on-his-decision-to-leave-after-oct-7-2/


So you admit that Israel determined that the group making this allegation was found to be a terrorist organization by Israel, right?

So why should I read their report if they are a terrorist organization? As I said in my first post, it is clearly biased.


Do whatever you want, but Israel has proven time and time again to be the party in this conflict that cannot be trusted, and that cannot sustain integrity in their reporting of what’s occurring in the region.

People without an agenda instinctively laugh aloud when “Israel” and “facts” are mentioned in the same breath. Zero integrity. Zero credibility.

Israel is basically an isolated state on the world stage because countries don’t trust anyone affiliated with the Israeli government. Maybe that will change with a new wave of political leaders in Israel, but right now, Israel is not taken seriously by the rest of the world. Its just not.
Anonymous
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Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:did anyone see the new survey that shows 72% of palestinians support Hamas's actions on Oct 7? https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/21/middleeast/palestinians-back-hamas-survey-intl-cmd/index.html


If the IDF hurt one of my children, I regret to say that I'd probably do more than support Hamas. After the IDF has killed and mutilated, displaced, and starved so many Palestinians, I'm surprised that number is as low as 72%.


Yes. This. Israel’s outsized response is only servicing to make Jews less safe worldwide. If you think IDF’s response has been justified based on 1200 deaths and 250 kidnapped victims, just imagine what the Palestinians want to do to Israelis for 20x that amount of suffering.


Wow. What both of you numbskulls conveniently ignore is the FACT that Hamas brutally mutilated, tortured, raped, and murdered, children and other innocent civilians FIRST. Why is it so easy for you to totally twist this narrative? Do you know how insane you sound?
DP


It is a mistake to try to assign a “first” in this conflict. You are correct that Hamas carried out a brutal attack on October 7th, but they didn’t spring into existence on October 6th.

https://prospect.org/world/2023-10-20-west-bank-settlements-conflict-gaza/

A very interesting article written by an Israeli author.


That's behind a firewall. At any rate, regardless of Jewish settlements, etc. - Israelis have NOT tortured and raped Palestinian women and children. Hamas are monsters. I hope they're eradicated from the face of the earth.


Just a reminder this is the statement categorically denying Israelis have tortured and raped Palestinian women which is precisely what the Israeli justice system says has taken place.


They’ve raped more Palestinian men than the women because they know men don’t ever speak out about such things


Cool story bro. Make wild accusations with no proof, and then give yourself fake cover by saying "you won't hear about it because it's suppressed / people are being bought off / they won't talk to it because of cultural issues" etc.


Here is a report about a 15 year old boy who was raped and was subjected to torture in the genitalia in 2021 by Israeli forces.

This incident has been mentioned in interviews by Josh Paul, who resigned from the US state department earlier this year.

https://www.dci-palestine.org/israeli_interrogator_sexually_assaults_palestinian_child_detainee


Again for individual reports vs. mass rape event. This is equivalent to when Jeff said about Shani Louk “she had her underwear on”


Ok then say “Israel doesn’t carry out mass rape” and not “Israelis do NOT rape Palestinians”.

Don’t make verifiably false statements and then get defensive when someone tells you they’re false. And really if I were in your shoes I’d take a beat on making either of those claims because we don’t know the full scale of what’s happening right now, and you may find yourself re-defining your parameters for behavior yet again.


You are saying that possibly, Israeli soldiers are mass raping Palestinian women, cutting off breasts, and desecrating the bodies, ie parading their corpses through the streets of Tel Aviv while civilian Israelis are spitting on their dead flesh?


No? I am saying it’s possible there is a larger sexual violence issue with the IDF that we don’t yet know about (due to gag orders and also the lack of reporting from Gaza right now) and so I would continue to advise everyone not to make blanket statements about their behavior which are either verifiably false or have the potential to be proven false later. Stick with what is verifiably true.



The IDF are heroes, and if we had a reasonable leadership in this country people like you blatantly slandering such heroes would be arrested and tried for your crimes.


You believe that it should be a crime in the United States to post verified facts— published by the governments in question— about the conduct of foreign militaries?


They are NOT verified. They were part of a biased opinion piece as shown by the fact that the website has the word ‘Palestine’ in its url.

Posting verifiable facts is not a crime, but terrorizing Jewish people by slandering the IDF is and should be a crime.


The delicious irony of calling a source biased because it has the word “Palestine” in it and demanding proof from the Times of ISRAEL or JERUSALEM Post instead.

Please continue , don’t ever change.


Not that PP, but I won't read or believe any of the crap you're posting unless it comes from a reputable news source, such as AP News, Reuters, NYT, WSJ, or WaPo.


I don't care what you read or believe. I don't post this to convince you.

https://www.ynetnews.com/magazine/article/BkFIIVT7u

Remember the earnest ZAKA, this not-to-be-doubted organization that gifted us the story of beheaded babies, babies on a laundry line, pregnant women with their stomachs open and god knows what else? Uh-huh.

As more accusations of sexual misconduct against former ZAKA chairman Yehuda Meshi-Zahav keep pouring in from both men and women, voices within the ultra-Orthodox community are trying to distance themselves from the veteran first responder, likening him to disgraced U.S. financier Jefferey Epstein who became notorious for grooming minors for his own pleasure.

The sheer amount of accusations leveled against Meshi-Zahav and rumors that his alleged actions were an open secret within the community raised questions about the functioning of the sector's modesty patrols — vigilante gangs that act to enforce a code of modesty among the Haredi public through violence and intimidation.

'Yehuda Meshi-Zahav was the Haredi Jeffrey Esptein'

Residents of Jerusalem's Mea Shearim neighborhood, Meshi-Zahav's birthplace, say they weren't surprised to learn about his alleged mischiefs, claiming that new accusations are 'just the tip of the iceberg' and that community leaders even considered castrating him once.

As more accusations of sexual misconduct against former ZAKA chairman Yehuda Meshi-Zahav keep pouring in from both men and women, voices within the ultra-Orthodox community are trying to distance themselves from the veteran first responder, likening him to disgraced U.S. financier Jefferey Epstein who became notorious for grooming minors for his own pleasure.

The sheer amount of accusations leveled against Meshi-Zahav and rumors that his alleged actions were an open secret within the community raised questions about the functioning of the sector's modesty patrols — vigilante gangs that act to enforce a code of modesty among the Haredi public through violence and intimidation.

In Jerusalem's Mea Shearim neighborhood, where Meshi Zahav was raised and spent most of his life, these groups usually refrain from turning to authorities in cases of sexual misconduct as they do not recognize the State of Israel (LOL!!!!). But they don't turn a blind eye, either.

A member of one such group, called the Committee for Preserving Our Camp's Purity, spoke to Ynet on condition of anonymity and said that Meshi-Zahav's deeds were well known across the neighborhood, but the conventional communal systems did not know how or could handle him.

"Meshi[-Zahav] was a despicable man and everyone in Mea Shearim knew it," he said. "Everyone's been talking about it since I was born, and I personally know names of people who have slept with him. It's no secret. We're talking about loads of people.

For him, everything goes – women, children, boys and girls, and if animals could talk and tell their stories, I've no doubt we would've found out he was playing around with them too. Everything that moves, essentially."


It’s too easy to find support inside the “Israel can do no wrong, and Palestinians can do no right” echo chamber. They knew the baked babies, clotheslined babies, shovel decapitations, and rampant rape lies would eventually be brought into the light, but all they needed was a lying head start to galvanize support from their fellow White Supremacists.

Too easy.
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