When AAP is the wrong fit...

[Anonymous]

Last year, when my son tested into AAP, we had real hesitation about putting him in the program. On paper, he's got all the right scores and skills. But he's the kind of kid who doesn't really understand why things like grades matter. When he's interested in something, he learns everything on earth about it. But if it doesn't spark his interest, it's like pulling teeth to get him to focus enough to learn it and to then demonstrate that learning on a test. I realize that no matter what setting he's in academically this is a trait that needs to change, because it will not serve him well. But in a program like AAP, where the expectation is that they are able to be more self-directed and self-motivated, I felt like were setting him up to fail.

We were swayed by his teachers and the counselor, so we enrolled him. They assured us that there are lots of quirky kids in AAP and that the teachers would get them all up to speed at the start of the year. Well, guess what? He's tanking. He not keeping up with the work, he's making tons of stupid mistakes on tests (doing things like bubbling in two answers because he can't be bothered to pick between them or copying the problem over rather than solving for the answer), and he's just generally miserable. Most of his friends are in the other classes, which makes the whole thing harder on him, because making friends is challenging for him. His current teacher (who I like a lot) agrees he's got the potential to succeed but that he doesn't seem to have the personality for it. And with every passing day he's falling more and more behind.

In the short term we're going to get a tutor, work on study habits, and try to reward his successes more, but in the long term I cannot imagine three more years of this. But when I suggest pulling him from the program next year, the response I get from almost everyone is horror at the mere suggestion. I just want my kid to be happy, to like school, and to learn. I get that AAP offers lots of great opportunities, but I don't think the trade-off is worth it for my son. On the other hand, I don't want him to feel like he failed with this program. Has anyone else been in this position?

[Anonymous]

I haven't been in this position, but my child did the AAP program from third through sixth grades, so I had the opportunity to observe her classmates over the years.

I would suggest continuing to support your son as you have been: keep in contact with the teacher, make sure he's doing the homework, maybe work with a tutor. And then, give him some time. Third grade is a real transitional year in terms of maturity. Third graders start the year as still the "little kids" in the school, but end the year as "big kids." Really, it's amazing how much they change in one year!

So, see how he does this year and then reevaluate at the end of the year. You don't have to decide now for next year. He has the advantage now of a teacher who really gets his quirky way of learning (and I bet he is not the first she has seen!). I saw a number of boys like your son in my child's class. One did go back to his base school for fourth grade, the others stayed through sixth and did fine. I do think it helped them to have teachers who were trained to work with the AAP program.

In terms of friends, do the classes do things together sometimes during the day? Could you help your son invite another boy from his class over to play? When my child was in third grade, the kids had come from four or five different schools, so they pretty much all had to make new friends. They've been in school less than two months at this point, so they are all just in the early process of getting to know each other.

I wouldn't worry about other people's opinions of whether your son should stay in AAP or not. Your opinion and his teacher's opinion are the only ones that matter. You sound like you are doing a great job supporting your son and figuring out what is best for him. Best wishes to you and your son for a good school year!

[Anonymous]

What was school like for your child last year? That would have a great impact on what I would do in your situation. Was he as distracted in second grade?

I know the general feeling around here is to get into AAP at any cost, but being in AAP doesn't guarantee your admittance into TJ and it doesn't guarantee you a successful career or happiness. He can be a happy, intelligent, successful kid/adult without going to AAP. So, don't beat yourself up for thinking he's failed or you've failed if he handles the pace of regular school better. It's not like regular school is only for dummies (although that's the impression you get from reading these posts).

However, if he was having a similarly hard time in regular second grade, then maybe regular school isn't the solution.

I have known kids who were not even selected for AAP who then went on to get admitted to TJ.... so, it's not the end of the world if he would in fact be happier at regular school to just let him do his own thing. What does he say? Does he want to be at his old school?

[Anonymous]

My husband teaches at an AAP center and it's true that there are a lot of "quirky" kids in the center, that's absolutely true. Most of the AAP kids do well and are right where they belong, but a few of them would probably be better served in gen. ed. He teaches 6th, so by the time they get to him, no one wants to yank them from the program because it's the last year before middle school. Those kids struggle with tutors, etc. Personal opinion - you know your kid best and if you don't think he will thrive in that environment, I'd strongly consider putting him in general education. Maybe he can get AAP pull out services as well, to keep him on his toes. You certainly want to make sure he's challenged and works hard, but I personally think that he can be challenged and work hard in gen. ed. as well. The main differences between the two programs is that AAP goes into greater depth with the subject material, (often this translates into more projects) and the math is accelerated, so that by the time they reach the end of 6th grade, they are about a year ahead of their gen. ed. counterparts. But I believe if your son likes math and does well with that, you can ask to have have him put into compacted math (maybe that's not until 5th grade, I'm not sure?), which will keep him at the same level as the AAP kids. My dad is super smart and put into the AAP type classes - he said he hated being in with the "egg heads" and rebelled, by not trying at all - he graduated nearly last in his class. Not saying that will happen with your son, just saying that there is really something to be said about a kids' attitude and how that can effect his drive to learn. DD is in gen. ed. She tested high, but not enough to get into the AAP pool. In 3rd grade her teacher kept asking why she wasn't in the program and suggested we have her retested. She got straight A's last year in 4th grade gen. ed., but she worked for it. Knowing her personality, I know she should be frustrated and overwhelmed in the AAP program, so I didn't have her re-tested and appeal. You just have to do what you think is best for your kid. Good luck, it's a tough decision.

[Anonymous]

Honestly, if it's that hard for him and he's really not happy, it's just not worth it. I have a child in AAP and it has been great, but if it wasn't a good fit, I'd leave in a New York minute. That said, I'd give it until at least Christmas to make sure it really isn't a good fit.

AAp is great but I'm not sure it's worth it if your child needs all types of tutors. I think a child can also get a great education in FCPS general ed if that's the one that is the better fit for that child.

[Anonymous]

Interesting you posted this question. Since preschool, my oldest has seemed to be ahead of the curve academically. BUT, socially, he has always lagged. Over the years, he has been known to be forgetful, a bit impulsive, has a hard time keeping still, etc. Since academically, he was doing very well, we never really delved into this further. He was in pool in 2nd grade with test scores ranging from 130-148 on the CogAt, but did not get placed in AAP due to a lower GBRS of 9(which incidentally is really not supposed to take behavior into account). Anyway, he had an amazing 3rd grade teacher, who also happened to teach Math/Science AAP at our school. She encouraged me to reapply for 4th grade, she felt he really needed the challenge. So, we did (using our old scores, did not do WISC or anything) and indeed, he coasted through on the first round.

So, this year, he is in his first year of AAP. The level of work seems really perfect for him BUT, his immaturity, impulsivity (one example being able to keep from shouting out answers) and inability to be still/keep organized have really become a problem.

I have seen a lot of posts about all the "disruptive children" in AAP classes, and how disgusted they are, but, I think 3rd-4th grade is really a time when the social/emotional delays that come with ADHD rear their head, especially in boys. I know some would like to believe that all AAP students are angels.

So, what we are doing is meeting next week with the counselor and ds's teacher to discuss, and we have set up a consultation with a developmental pediatrician.

I am in no way in denial about my son having issues. We have tried all sorts of behavior charts, incentives, taking away privileges, etc. But alas, this keeps coming up again and again. After doing a ton of research, I feel there may be some component of this that is out of his control, and that we need to seek help.

Could this be a possibility for you? For us, the general ed. curriculum only exacerbated the issues as ds finished his work so easily that he had too much distracted time.

[Anonymous]

In general, I understand the point others have made but when I look at what you say his issues are - I don't necessarily think that going to GE is going to solve much. I think you would probably need to do the tutoring, hand holding etc. Third and fourth grades, as mentioned above, are often hard organizationally for kids. Any "hand holding" you do now will pay off down the line. I think that often in both GE and AAP the expectations in FCPS are not in line with where the kids are developmentally.

Good luck OP!

[Anonymous]

9:50 and 13:23:
I have the same situation with my 3rd AAP grader. Just got the interim report from the teachers. There seemed a lot of issues with attention/responsibility/self organization. I am pondering all sorts of options now.

[Anonymous]

OP here. Thanks to everyone for your feedback. The one think I'm sure about is that we're not going to make any drastic decisions for this school year. And I'm committed to working on his issues seriously, because no matter what classroom he's in next year, these habits are going to prevent him from being successful.

But the more I think about it (and the more I read all of the responses) the more I agree with the person who said that the expectations for all 3rd graders, AAP or otherwise, seems to be out of line with what's developmentally appropriate. Sure, there are 8-year-olds who take pride in their work, keep track of all of their things, etc...but they seem to be the outliers. I'm not saying we should lower the bar, because they're not kindergartners. But why not teach them study skills and good work habits, rather than just expect them to show up the first day of 3rd grade having grown those skills like permanent teeth? I'm not saying they devote the entire year to the subject, but why not start the year out with a unit about the tools you need to be a good learner?

[Anonymous]

Hang in there, OP! I think 3rd grade is really hard. My DD was like that last year and is MUCH better this year in 4th. Try to work with him as best you can to get him organized and give it a shot this year. Re-evaluate in a year or two.

[Anonymous]

OP you sound like a very good parent really trying to work on making things better for your DC. The only thing that would give me concern is that you said you were going to use tutors. I'm sure lots of people use them, but the point of going to an AAP class is that you should be able to keep up with the work without a tutor. At least that's my opinion. My DC is in a AAP class this yr (3rd). Like you I am really looking at him to make sure he's happy and not overburdened... because i would never want my DC to feel stress b/c he couldn't keep up.

[Anonymous]

21:33 here. PP, I think tutors could be ok if it's a short term thing. My DD is in 4th. Last year, she had a really hard time with certain things. Her writing was probably a little behind and she really had a hard time with the timed multiplication tests (I guess I must be a bad mommy because we never sent her to Kumon as a toddler). A tutor might have been helpful for her but we worked on it together.

This year, she is like a different child! Her writing has improved a lot and now that she is beyond the simple memorization, she's doing great in math (she likes higher order concepts better apparently -- she was bored by the memorization, I think and it doesn't come naturally for her). For her at least, it really clicked this year. I guess it helped that she did a lot of math worksheets over the summer to keep her thinking about it. I'm not sure, but something clicked.

I guess my point is that sometimes the child is just not ready yet for what they want him/her to do and it might click a little later. I agree, though, that long term tutoring just to stay in AAP would not be worth it. I would be willing to bet there are kids in AAP who have tutors to get ahead knowing some of the parents there.

[Anonymous]

ADHD kis, in 4th grade AAP. Gifted-ADHD often go hand-in-hsnd. No doubt these kids have a tough road, and as parents we need to advocate for accomodations, but in my view, these kids will have worse attentional and behavior symptoms when they are not challenged.

[Anonymous]

11:14, can you please elaborate on what types of accommodations are reasonable/typical, with an ADHD diagnosis?

[Anonymous]

Teacher should make sure ADHD child sits away from windows and other distractions, in seat near teacher. Makes sure child fills out assignment book each day, notifies parent immediately when homework is missing, allows child to finish school work at home without penalty, reminds child to stay on task, helps child organize desk and materials, permits more time to finish tests if necessary. These are a few of the ADHD accomodations out there. You can find more on-line. Good luck! People I know with older ADHD kids tell me that eventually the kid comes to realize the parents are fighting for them and that alone is huge.