Help me understand the impact of a $15 minimum wage?

[Anonymous]

I’m hearing that small businesses are worried about surviving. I’m also hearing that people are too. So you have to do both—require living wages, and do more things to even the playing field for small businesses that don’t involve hurting the people that work for them.

And to the PP—it doesn’t matter how many people currently earn minimum wage. You keep harping on that—but the fact that only like 2% of workers are in that category doesn’t help make your case. About 42% of American workers make less than 15 dollars an hour. That’s the relevant consideration. All of those jobs won’t disappear if wages go up. Prices will go up in some cases, some businesses will consolidate, some will break up, some will close, some new businesses will open. It’s a complex picture. But the economy we have can likely bear it. The stock market is skyrocketing even when we have massive unemployment. It tells you everything you need to know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think things have really changed and a lot of people are carrying old attitudes from the experiences of previous generations. And some people have a scarcity outlook - like "I had to suffer so you must also" or "I don't want to share any pie"

But I think of things like this -

My grandpa was a welder and he was a wealthy guy in a small town. Supported a family of 4, drove only Mercedes, bought many sports cars for my teenaged dad. Retired early to life of leisure, left money behind when he died.

My great uncle worked in a liquor store. He had only a wife to support, but the had homes in both Virginia and Florida, where they lived half the year, and they wanted for nothing.

My FIL worked summers during high school and college, and made enough money to pay for all his college tuition, no debt. (So now he thinks kids can still work to pay for all of college, ha)

These things seem unbelievable now, that guys with blue collar and/or customer service jobs could live so very well.

I am for this big minimum wage, to help these families who can't make ends meet, and sure, to help a 17 year old pay for school or make a great start in life. Things are out of balance now. This helps even it out.

Yep. A lot of people think minimum wage today means the same thing it meant 50 years ago. It doesn’t. It hasn’t kept up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m hearing that small businesses are worried about surviving. I’m also hearing that people are too. So you have to do both—require living wages, and do more things to even the playing field for small businesses that don’t involve hurting the people that work for them.

And to the PP—it doesn’t matter how many people currently earn minimum wage. You keep harping on that—but the fact that only like 2% of workers are in that category doesn’t help make your case. About 42% of American workers make less than 15 dollars an hour. That’s the relevant consideration. All of those jobs won’t disappear if wages go up. Prices will go up in some cases, some businesses will consolidate, some will break up, some will close, some new businesses will open. It’s a complex picture. But the economy we have can likely bear it. The stock market is skyrocketing even when we have massive unemployment. It tells you everything you need to know.

The stock market is soaring because of the money being pumped into the economy.

Doubling the minimum wage will cause many businesses to automate earlier than planned. Those low-level unskilled jobs won't be there for people who have few skills or are not educated. Small businesses, the heart of our economy will struggle.

With so many small businesses in the U.S., it’s no surprise that small businesses generate the majority of jobs in the United States. According to the Small Business Administration, small companies create 1.5 million jobs annually and account for 64 percent of new jobs created in the U.S. (Fundera, 2019).

https://www.oberlo.com/blog/small-business-statisticshttps://www.oberlo.com/blog/small-business-statisticsv

Those cute little mom and pop and specialty shops lining main street in Anytown, USA - kiss them goodbye. Either they won't be able to afford the increases in labor costs, or they won't be able to sell their goods due to increased prices.

Then, there is the "equity" issue - the new liberal buzzword. A $15/hr min wage is not the same in NY City as in Kansas City. That is why it should be left to states and localities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m hearing that small businesses are worried about surviving. I’m also hearing that people are too. So you have to do both—require living wages, and do more things to even the playing field for small businesses that don’t involve hurting the people that work for them.

And to the PP—it doesn’t matter how many people currently earn minimum wage. You keep harping on that—but the fact that only like 2% of workers are in that category doesn’t help make your case. About 42% of American workers make less than 15 dollars an hour. That’s the relevant consideration. All of those jobs won’t disappear if wages go up. Prices will go up in some cases, some businesses will consolidate, some will break up, some will close, some new businesses will open. It’s a complex picture. But the economy we have can likely bear it. The stock market is skyrocketing even when we have massive unemployment. It tells you everything you need to know.

The stock market is soaring because of the money being pumped into the economy.

Doubling the minimum wage will cause many businesses to automate earlier than planned. Those low-level unskilled jobs won't be there for people who have few skills or are not educated. Small businesses, the heart of our economy will struggle.

With so many small businesses in the U.S., it’s no surprise that small businesses generate the majority of jobs in the United States. According to the Small Business Administration, small companies create 1.5 million jobs annually and account for 64 percent of new jobs created in the U.S. (Fundera, 2019).

https://www.oberlo.com/blog/small-business-statisticshttps://www.oberlo.com/blog/small-business-statisticsv

Those cute little mom and pop and specialty shops lining main street in Anytown, USA - kiss them goodbye. Either they won't be able to afford the increases in labor costs, or they won't be able to sell their goods due to increased prices.

Then, there is the "equity" issue - the new liberal buzzword. A $15/hr min wage is not the same in NY City as in Kansas City. That is why it should be left to states and localities.
[/quote

Those shops are long gone already man. Walmart killed them . Mom and pops do okay in suburban and urban areas and are already paying higher wages.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m hearing that small businesses are worried about surviving. I’m also hearing that people are too. So you have to do both—require living wages, and do more things to even the playing field for small businesses that don’t involve hurting the people that work for them.

And to the PP—it doesn’t matter how many people currently earn minimum wage. You keep harping on that—but the fact that only like 2% of workers are in that category doesn’t help make your case. About 42% of American workers make less than 15 dollars an hour. That’s the relevant consideration. All of those jobs won’t disappear if wages go up. Prices will go up in some cases, some businesses will consolidate, some will break up, some will close, some new businesses will open. It’s a complex picture. But the economy we have can likely bear it. The stock market is skyrocketing even when we have massive unemployment. It tells you everything you need to know.

The stock market is soaring because of the money being pumped into the economy.

Doubling the minimum wage will cause many businesses to automate earlier than planned. Those low-level unskilled jobs won't be there for people who have few skills or are not educated. Small businesses, the heart of our economy will struggle.

With so many small businesses in the U.S., it’s no surprise that small businesses generate the majority of jobs in the United States. According to the Small Business Administration, small companies create 1.5 million jobs annually and account for 64 percent of new jobs created in the U.S. (Fundera, 2019).

https://www.oberlo.com/blog/small-business-statisticshttps://www.oberlo.com/blog/small-business-statisticsv

Those cute little mom and pop and specialty shops lining main street in Anytown, USA - kiss them goodbye. Either they won't be able to afford the increases in labor costs, or they won't be able to sell their goods due to increased prices.

Then, there is the "equity" issue - the new liberal buzzword. A $15/hr min wage is not the same in NY City as in Kansas City. That is why it should be left to states and localities.

but what would you do about



do you just want to pay them what they need for housing directly from the government instead? or you just want these people to live like people in a third world nation instead of the greatest nation on earth?

to me, you are all "leave my money alone!" You pretend to care about the poor ("don't take their jobs!") but you have no solutions that would actually let them live a decent life. It is like you want to live in some third world nation and throw crumbs to the street people and say "but at least I give them crumbs!".

Can't you imagine a world where everybody has a decent life? with a small efficiency apartment for 40 hours work? and a crime-free neighborhood? and access to libraries and parks and decent education for their kids?

or you really think the only possibility is the rich living off barely surviving peasants?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Right now we are subsidizing those companies that only pay $7-8 dollars via the subsidies or safety nets for people living below the poverty line such as food stamps, Medicaid etc. I’d love to have the $15 champions identify what could be saved by the government and tax payers if the minimum wage goes to $15.

This. The current minimum wage of 7.25 is below the poverty level. Someone working 40 hours a week at 7:25 only earns $15,000 a year! How is that OK? As taxpayers help subsidize large corporations who do not pay that minimum wage. The $15 minimum wage recommendation would be phased in, it wouldn’t happen tomorrow. Many states currently have a minimum wage above the federal, it is just the states that use the federal minimum wage that would be impacted. Some of these corporations could easily reduce the salary of their top executives to cover the cost of the minimum wage at the lower level people. The minimum wage has not kept up with inflation.

[Anonymous]

I think anyone who has the same knee-jerk reaction every single time we discuss raising the federal minimum wage should not be taken seriously when they make the same exact tires arguments without backing them up with current research. It’s not meant to never change. It has to change as the economy changes. We should be debating how much it goes up and what indicators to tie it to, not whether it needs to go up at all. Because it obviously does. Half of the workforce making under 15 an hour is insane.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think anyone who has the same knee-jerk reaction every single time we discuss raising the federal minimum wage should not be taken seriously when they make the same exact tires arguments without backing them up with current research. It’s not meant to never change. It has to change as the economy changes. We should be debating how much it goes up and what indicators to tie it to, not whether it needs to go up at all. Because it obviously does. Half of the workforce making under 15 an hour is insane.

Frankly, I don't think the govt. should be setting a minimum wage.
If a person cannot afford to live on a wage offered to him/her, then that person should seek a job elsewhere. If the businesses offering low wages cannot find workers, they will raise their wages.
Of course, this depends on NOT having low wage workers flooding our country from south of our border.
You realize that under Trump, wages rose and this was in large part due to our border enforcement. Sadly, that has now changed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think anyone who has the same knee-jerk reaction every single time we discuss raising the federal minimum wage should not be taken seriously when they make the same exact tires arguments without backing them up with current research. It’s not meant to never change. It has to change as the economy changes. We should be debating how much it goes up and what indicators to tie it to, not whether it needs to go up at all. Because it obviously does. Half of the workforce making under 15 an hour is insane.

Frankly, I don't think the govt. should be setting a minimum wage.
If a person cannot afford to live on a wage offered to him/her, then that person should seek a job elsewhere. If the businesses offering low wages cannot find workers, they will raise their wages.
Of course, this depends on NOT having low wage workers flooding our country from south of our border.
You realize that under Trump, wages rose and this was in large part due to our border enforcement. Sadly, that has now changed.

Ah there it is. You realize there are things that make it difficult if not impossible for a worker to seek wages elsewhere right? I mean why pay anyone at all if you can get away with it (and some people do).

Also “Wages have risen” because low wage people are out of work entirely right now, lol. Nice try.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:$15 minimum wage will not affect you at all, unless you are a small businessperson.

The .01 cent increase in the size of Big Macs is non-relevant, and you should probably stop eating all those Big Macs anyways.

It won’t effect you. It WILL effect the minimum wage workers at the counter, because their jobs will simply be eliminated, and they will be replaced by automated ordering kiosks.

I guess libs will then tell them “they should learn to code” or “start building solar panels”.

no, that is Ivanka's line.

Ivanka is working on her tan these days. We’re discussing the present.

Try and keep up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think anyone who has the same knee-jerk reaction every single time we discuss raising the federal minimum wage should not be taken seriously when they make the same exact tires arguments without backing them up with current research. It’s not meant to never change. It has to change as the economy changes. We should be debating how much it goes up and what indicators to tie it to, not whether it needs to go up at all. Because it obviously does. Half of the workforce making under 15 an hour is insane.

Frankly, I don't think the govt. should be setting a minimum wage.
If a person cannot afford to live on a wage offered to him/her, then that person should seek a job elsewhere. If the businesses offering low wages cannot find workers, they will raise their wages.
Of course, this depends on NOT having low wage workers flooding our country from south of our border.
You realize that under Trump, wages rose and this was in large part due to our border enforcement. Sadly, that has now changed.

Ah there it is. You realize there are things that make it difficult if not impossible for a worker to seek wages elsewhere right? I mean why pay anyone at all if you can get away with it (and some people do).

Also “Wages have risen” because low wage people are out of work entirely right now, lol. Nice try.

Wages also rose because there were a number of states and localities that raised their minimum wage levels.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think anyone who has the same knee-jerk reaction every single time we discuss raising the federal minimum wage should not be taken seriously when they make the same exact tires arguments without backing them up with current research. It’s not meant to never change. It has to change as the economy changes. We should be debating how much it goes up and what indicators to tie it to, not whether it needs to go up at all. Because it obviously does. Half of the workforce making under 15 an hour is insane.

Frankly, I don't think the govt. should be setting a minimum wage.
If a person cannot afford to live on a wage offered to him/her, then that person should seek a job elsewhere. If the businesses offering low wages cannot find workers, they will raise their wages.
Of course, this depends on NOT having low wage workers flooding our country from south of our border.
You realize that under Trump, wages rose and this was in large part due to our border enforcement. Sadly, that has now changed.

Since our economy is dominated by effective monopolies, this does not work. If they break up the big corporations and strongly enforce anti-monopoly laws, this might work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I'm sorry you find having to pay your employees a living wage so confounding.

Telling that you assume that anyone arguing for the business owner is a business owner.

Far from it. My dad started a business that didn't succeed. He paid his employees when he was not paying himself. He sold the business to someone who had the capital to invest. Because of capital, the business became successful. Took dad years to get back on his feet financially. It was his dream, and it didn't work out for him. But, that is why I know how hard starting a business can be. Spouse and I have only worked for others. I never had any desire to start a business--I know how hard it is to make a buck. You obviously do not.

I actually am a business owner. And I don't have any employees yet, because I wouldn't be able to pay them what I feel is fair. Instead I do a lot of the work myself, and I hire contractors for specific tasks within projects.

The business owner is not entitled to the success that comes from building a business AT THE EXPENSE of paying their employees a living wage. I really don't understand why that's so hard for you to grasp.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m hearing that small businesses are worried about surviving. I’m also hearing that people are too. So you have to do both—require living wages, and do more things to even the playing field for small businesses that don’t involve hurting the people that work for them.

And to the PP—it doesn’t matter how many people currently earn minimum wage. You keep harping on that—but the fact that only like 2% of workers are in that category doesn’t help make your case. About 42% of American workers make less than 15 dollars an hour. That’s the relevant consideration. All of those jobs won’t disappear if wages go up. Prices will go up in some cases, some businesses will consolidate, some will break up, some will close, some new businesses will open. It’s a complex picture. But the economy we have can likely bear it. The stock market is skyrocketing even when we have massive unemployment. It tells you everything you need to know.

The stock market is soaring because of the money being pumped into the economy.

Doubling the minimum wage will cause many businesses to automate earlier than planned. Those low-level unskilled jobs won't be there for people who have few skills or are not educated. Small businesses, the heart of our economy will struggle.

With so many small businesses in the U.S., it’s no surprise that small businesses generate the majority of jobs in the United States. According to the Small Business Administration, small companies create 1.5 million jobs annually and account for 64 percent of new jobs created in the U.S. (Fundera, 2019).

https://www.oberlo.com/blog/small-business-statisticshttps://www.oberlo.com/blog/small-business-statisticsv

Those cute little mom and pop and specialty shops lining main street in Anytown, USA - kiss them goodbye. Either they won't be able to afford the increases in labor costs, or they won't be able to sell their goods due to increased prices.

Then, there is the "equity" issue - the new liberal buzzword. A $15/hr min wage is not the same in NY City as in Kansas City. That is why it should be left to states and localities.

You keep talking about how those little mom and pop shops are the biggest job creators. But if paying a living wage is going to crush those businesses, were those quality jobs they were creating? Did those people have healthcare? Were we subsidizing their income with state funded benefits? Are their kids getting access to the quality care and education that will help them do better in life?

If the answer to those questions is no (and you know it is) we don't want businesses that create those types of "jobs." We need healthy, robust, competitive businesses that create QUALITY jobs. Maybe more should be done to make that possible for the true small business, but the answer is not allowi g and encouraging abor exploitation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m hearing that small businesses are worried about surviving. I’m also hearing that people are too. So you have to do both—require living wages, and do more things to even the playing field for small businesses that don’t involve hurting the people that work for them.

And to the PP—it doesn’t matter how many people currently earn minimum wage. You keep harping on that—but the fact that only like 2% of workers are in that category doesn’t help make your case. About 42% of American workers make less than 15 dollars an hour. That’s the relevant consideration. All of those jobs won’t disappear if wages go up. Prices will go up in some cases, some businesses will consolidate, some will break up, some will close, some new businesses will open. It’s a complex picture. But the economy we have can likely bear it. The stock market is skyrocketing even when we have massive unemployment. It tells you everything you need to know.

The stock market is soaring because of the money being pumped into the economy.

Doubling the minimum wage will cause many businesses to automate earlier than planned. Those low-level unskilled jobs won't be there for people who have few skills or are not educated. Small businesses, the heart of our economy will struggle.

With so many small businesses in the U.S., it’s no surprise that small businesses generate the majority of jobs in the United States. According to the Small Business Administration, small companies create 1.5 million jobs annually and account for 64 percent of new jobs created in the U.S. (Fundera, 2019).

https://www.oberlo.com/blog/small-business-statisticshttps://www.oberlo.com/blog/small-business-statisticsv

Those cute little mom and pop and specialty shops lining main street in Anytown, USA - kiss them goodbye. Either they won't be able to afford the increases in labor costs, or they won't be able to sell their goods due to increased prices.

Then, there is the "equity" issue - the new liberal buzzword. A $15/hr min wage is not the same in NY City as in Kansas City. That is why it should be left to states and localities.

You keep talking about how those little mom and pop shops are the biggest job creators. But if paying a living wage is going to crush those businesses, were those quality jobs they were creating? Did those people have healthcare? Were we subsidizing their income with state funded benefits? Are their kids getting access to the quality care and education that will help them do better in life?

If the answer to those questions is no (and you know it is) we don't want businesses that create those types of "jobs." We need healthy, robust, competitive businesses that create QUALITY jobs. Maybe more should be done to make that possible for the true small business, but the answer is not allowi g and encouraging abor exploitation.

DP. I tried to point this out somewhere else, but a lot of small businesses pay their employees better than big businesses anyway. And they tend to be located in more affluent urban and suburban settings, where the customers are, where costs can be passed on to consumers more easily. People love to trot out arguments about the small business plight, and they sometimes unwittingly parrot big business lines without doing the research. Yes, higher wages change the bottom line if nothing else changes. But that’s not how things actually work.