FCPS potential changes to AAP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Above average is an IQ from about 110 to 125. Do you really think those kids belong in AAP? Parents certainly are trying to push kids in that intelligence range into AAP. Something is deeply broken with gen ed if it can't accommodate the needs of kids with IQs in that range.

But who cares what other parents do? There is an impartial selection committee so it's not up to the parents. (I am not talking about principal placed LLIV students here).

The impartial selection committee expanded AAP from 6% in 2000 to over 20% today, and this whole thread started because they're talking about lowering the standards even more to get more URMs into the program. Like everything else in FCPS, AAP also teaches to the lowest common denominator, which is starting to become pretty low. Weren't you paying attention when the AAP teachers on this forum were saying that they're getting a lot of kids in their classrooms who can't handle AAP.

I’m not 100% sure these people commenting here are really AAP teachers. Fwiw I do know an AAP teacher and we have talked about how they learn about asynchronous development in the gifted AAP ES kids so sounds like there will be a varying spectrum of levels even in AAP.

Anyway just saying I’m not 100% sure the people are really teachers or a sock puppet of these people who complain AAP is too watered down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Dude, there are like 100 elementary schools in FCPS. Or more. Are you really suggesting that every one has a rich academic gen ed experience, because your children have been to three different schools?

Not at all. I'm just wondering how much of the idea that above average kids will be ignored and learn nothing in gen ed is real, and how much of it is an exaggeration/urban legend. I hope FCPS focuses more on the fidelity of implementation. The schools with dismal gen ed are doing something very wrong.

DP with example from last year (4th grade) I've shared in the past. We are in western FCPS. I had a parent teacher conference with my gen ed kid's teacher in late, late January. Teacher admitted to me what my kid had told me: she had not met with his reading group since December. She had them working independently because it takes so much time to get the other groups back on track especially after breaks and snow days. She is a good, seasoned teacher stretched too thin. Part of the issue is that Teachers are pulled into so many dang meetings (for IEPs, work sessions, etc.) that suck time away during the school day. The issue isn't always bad teachers. It is the system.

its still the teachers fault. When the teacher is pulled away they often know in advance and have a sub who they can give instructions. And if that isn’t enough they should be able to ask the administration for help instead of just neglecting the educational experience of the students because they are overwhelmed for what ever reason

Are you familiar with the current educational system? Many subs can barely teach, and they don't have access to laptops to project notes, videos, etc. A sub can't execute semi-complex lessons or science labs. Good subs get picked up for long-term jobs, not the meeting fill-ins. And how is Admin supposed to change that? They can't screen substitutes, and there is not enough money to pay for qualified subs. This has been the case for years.

whats wrong with having a teacher who floats around that can do these things mentioned. The county has resources and money to provide what is necessary

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are many kiddos in Level IV who are not placed appropriately - they are struggling with the advanced material. If we’re going to add more kids to Level IV, then we need to create a Level V to meet the needs of the kids who truly are advanced.

- AAP Teacher

^^ Thank you! My class is filled with kids (about 75% percent) with NNAT and CogAt scores between 95 and 110.

I find it hard to believe this is the makeup of a level 4 class room

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are many kiddos in Level IV who are not placed appropriately - they are struggling with the advanced material. If we’re going to add more kids to Level IV, then we need to create a Level V to meet the needs of the kids who truly are advanced.

- AAP Teacher

^^ Thank you! My class is filled with kids (about 75% percent) with NNAT and CogAt scores between 95 and 110.

I find it hard to believe this is the makeup of a level 4 class room

I also seriously doubt my child’s AAP teacher knows his NNAT / COGAT.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

DP with example from last year (4th grade) I've shared in the past. We are in western FCPS. I had a parent teacher conference with my gen ed kid's teacher in late, late January. Teacher admitted to me what my kid had told me: she had not met with his reading group since December. She had them working independently because it takes so much time to get the other groups back on track especially after breaks and snow days. She is a good, seasoned teacher stretched too thin. Part of the issue is that Teachers are pulled into so many dang meetings (for IEPs, work sessions, etc.) that suck time away during the school day. The issue isn't always bad teachers. It is the system.

DP from Western Fairfax: We had a similar experience where I asked my child if the teacher was meeting with him or in a group for LA and the answer was no. I noticed the same writing mistakes in his stories. He said the teacher was busy working with the other kids. I went in to volunteer to find many children who were just beginning to read and write. (This was 2nd grade.) We ended up referring and my child got in. Much better experience in AAP. Surrounded by kids who read similar books, etc., involved parents. Also, the kids would be encouraged take an assignment to the next level.

Another Western Fairfax parent here with the exact same experience. The AART is great, but she's part time and was obviously stretched thin. Between snow days and meetings, Level III pullouts were not once a week, as they were supposed to be. There were more than a few kids who were not at all prepared for the looming SOLs and the teacher spent a ton of time trying to get them to the bare minimum level. Some of the kids who got SpEd services had serious behavior issues and the IA who was supposed to work with them kept getting pulled to cover for local screening and to cover when other teachers were out and there were no available substitutes. I'm somewhat surprised that to my knowledge 1. No parents have raised hell about their kids not getting the Level III services they're supposed to get and 2. No parents of kids who are required by law to get a certain # of SpEd hours have raised hell about the IA getting pulled. With the former group, a lot probably just end up going to the center (we did). I'm not too sure about the latter group.

The parents of kids with ieps aren’t told when their kid doesn’t get the required services. That’s why.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

its still the teachers fault. When the teacher is pulled away they often know in advance and have a sub who they can give instructions. And if that isn’t enough they should be able to ask the administration for help instead of just neglecting the educational experience of the students because they are overwhelmed for what ever reason
Are you familiar with the current educational system? Many subs can barely teach, and they don't have access to laptops to project notes, videos, etc. A sub can't execute semi-complex lessons or science labs. Good subs get picked up for long-term jobs, not the meeting fill-ins. And how is Admin supposed to change that? They can't screen substitutes, and there is not enough money to pay for qualified subs. This has been the case for years. whats wrong with having a teacher who floats around that can do these things mentioned. The county has resources and money to provide what is necessary

If I had to guess, it's because teachers are paid based on their years of experience (or years at FCPS). If they pay a teacher to float around only "working" a couple hours a day, they would have to receive the same pay as a teacher that works 8 hours a day, plans, grades, etc. I'm not sure the county can justify that and it could lead to resentment among teachers. I'm no expert - just a guess.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are many kiddos in Level IV who are not placed appropriately - they are struggling with the advanced material. If we’re going to add more kids to Level IV, then we need to create a Level V to meet the needs of the kids who truly are advanced.

- AAP Teacher

^^ Thank you! My class is filled with kids (about 75% percent) with NNAT and CogAt scores between 95 and 110.

I find it hard to believe this is the makeup of a level 4 class room

I also seriously doubt my child’s AAP teacher knows his NNAT / COGAT.

I'm the PP. It's true and has been the case for the last 2-3 years. I have their scores, it is a simple report to run. Takes about 30 seconds.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are many kiddos in Level IV who are not placed appropriately - they are struggling with the advanced material. If we’re going to add more kids to Level IV, then we need to create a Level V to meet the needs of the kids who truly are advanced.

- AAP Teacher

^^ Thank you! My class is filled with kids (about 75% percent) with NNAT and CogAt scores between 95 and 110.

I find it hard to believe this is the makeup of a level 4 class room

I also seriously doubt my child’s AAP teacher knows his NNAT / COGAT.

I'm the PP. It's true and has been the case for the last 2-3 years. I have their scores, it is a simple report to run. Takes about 30 seconds.

Serious question: Why do you run the report? How does affect what you do?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are many kiddos in Level IV who are not placed appropriately - they are struggling with the advanced material. If we’re going to add more kids to Level IV, then we need to create a Level V to meet the needs of the kids who truly are advanced.

- AAP Teacher

^^ Thank you! My class is filled with kids (about 75% percent) with NNAT and CogAt scores between 95 and 110.

I find it hard to believe this is the makeup of a level 4 class room

I also seriously doubt my child’s AAP teacher knows his NNAT / COGAT.

I'm the PP. It's true and has been the case for the last 2-3 years. I have their scores, it is a simple report to run. Takes about 30 seconds.

Serious question: Why do you run the report? How does affect what you do?

It's included in a larger report: previous SOL scores, DRA levels, and iReady results. I use it mainly to review previous DRA and SOL scores. With the SOL report, it helps me see which sections they struggled with the previous year. But there is a correlation with the students getting 1 and 2s in class - when using the full AA curriculum - with those with low NNAT and CogAT scores.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are many kiddos in Level IV who are not placed appropriately - they are struggling with the advanced material. If we’re going to add more kids to Level IV, then we need to create a Level V to meet the needs of the kids who truly are advanced.

- AAP Teacher

^^ Thank you! My class is filled with kids (about 75% percent) with NNAT and CogAt scores between 95 and 110.

I find it hard to believe this is the makeup of a level 4 class room

I also seriously doubt my child’s AAP teacher knows his NNAT / COGAT.

I'm the PP. It's true and has been the case for the last 2-3 years. I have their scores, it is a simple report to run. Takes about 30 seconds.

I'm an AAP teacher and I call BS on this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are many kiddos in Level IV who are not placed appropriately - they are struggling with the advanced material. If we’re going to add more kids to Level IV, then we need to create a Level V to meet the needs of the kids who truly are advanced.

- AAP Teacher

^^ Thank you! My class is filled with kids (about 75% percent) with NNAT and CogAt scores between 95 and 110.

I find it hard to believe this is the makeup of a level 4 class room

I also seriously doubt my child’s AAP teacher knows his NNAT / COGAT.

I'm the PP. It's true and has been the case for the last 2-3 years. I have their scores, it is a simple report to run. Takes about 30 seconds.

I'm an AAP teacher and I call BS on this.

That is your prerogative. This is my classroom, at my school. Love the kids, love being their teacher - I'm only saying it's not the same as it was 10 years ago. Clearly, your situation is different.

[Anonymous]

Improve Gen Ed and parents will be less likely to push their kids into AAP. Perhaps, the new budget with pay for teachers will attract and retain teachers reducing the need for full-time subs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Improve Gen Ed and parents will be less likely to push their kids into AAP. Perhaps, the new budget with pay for teachers will attract and retain teachers reducing the need for full-time subs.

I personally don’t agree. It’s about ego for some people.

I’ve had someone tell me their kid’s scores and complain the kid is bored. My kid tested higher (but I didn’t share that) and I don’t have concerns about boredom. If he tells me he is - I say good, find something good to do - be creative.

[Anonymous]

I’d really like to know which schools have 75% of an AAP classroom with the low CogAt/ NNAT scores. I’m skeptical of that claim, if for no other reason than my own kid didn’t get in with much higher scores and excellent grades (but, did get in on appeal w a strong WISC). I don’t buy it that 15+ kids in a single AAP classroom scored in the average range for FCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

DP with example from last year (4th grade) I've shared in the past. We are in western FCPS. I had a parent teacher conference with my gen ed kid's teacher in late, late January. Teacher admitted to me what my kid had told me: she had not met with his reading group since December. She had them working independently because it takes so much time to get the other groups back on track especially after breaks and snow days. She is a good, seasoned teacher stretched too thin. Part of the issue is that Teachers are pulled into so many dang meetings (for IEPs, work sessions, etc.) that suck time away during the school day. The issue isn't always bad teachers. It is the system.

DP from Western Fairfax: We had a similar experience where I asked my child if the teacher was meeting with him or in a group for LA and the answer was no. I noticed the same writing mistakes in his stories. He said the teacher was busy working with the other kids. I went in to volunteer to find many children who were just beginning to read and write. (This was 2nd grade.) We ended up referring and my child got in. Much better experience in AAP. Surrounded by kids who read similar books, etc., involved parents. Also, the kids would be encouraged take an assignment to the next level.

Another Western Fairfax parent here with the exact same experience. The AART is great, but she's part time and was obviously stretched thin. Between snow days and meetings, Level III pullouts were not once a week, as they were supposed to be. There were more than a few kids who were not at all prepared for the looming SOLs and the teacher spent a ton of time trying to get them to the bare minimum level. Some of the kids who got SpEd services had serious behavior issues and the IA who was supposed to work with them kept getting pulled to cover for local screening and to cover when other teachers were out and there were no available substitutes. I'm somewhat surprised that to my knowledge 1. No parents have raised hell about their kids not getting the Level III services they're supposed to get and 2. No parents of kids who are required by law to get a certain # of SpEd hours have raised hell about the IA getting pulled. With the former group, a lot probably just end up going to the center (we did). I'm not too sure about the latter group.

The parents of kids with ieps aren’t told when their kid doesn’t get the required services. That’s why.

PP here. I don’t know...there were some upset parents at my kids’ school last year who raised a stink about this after their kids told them they hadn’t been getting pull-out SpEd services for a couple weeks. By third or fourth grade, kids are old enough to notice when the schedule is different or their usual teacher or para isn’t there.