I don't get it- very few CES kids get into magnet school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Wow...these numbers are shocking to me. No wonder Asians are pissed. If you look at the report card grades, Asians carry the weight of pushing the scores upward in practically every school in mcps. You look at these report and see the drastic dropoff of Asians accepted, versus whites versus other races.

Really, Asians? There are that many students in MCPS schools who are immigrants from Asia?

Or are you talking about American kids?

DP

They are all American kids. They should all be labeled American kids.

But MCPS has decided to divide up the groups by race and has put an enormous amount of time and energy in focusing on the Achievement Gap. Take it up with MCPS. Personally, I’d prefer they’d quit their obsession with race.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What it clearly shows is how heavily people were self selecting for the magnets before universal screening. In 2016, 299 Asian students applied for Takoma, in 2018, 689 were screened--about a 60% increase. By comparison only only 241 white students applied in 2016, while 1230 were identified for screening in 2018--a five fold increase. Of course Asian numbers went down, they had a disproportionate interest in the program and they're applications from viable candidates were probably beyond saturation. Anything that causes more students to apply, is going to disadvantage such a group. URMs are still under represented but the numbers identified are up substantially. Meanwhile Asians are still represented at twice their population, whites at 25% their population--so in no way has anyone been shut out or a quota been instituted.

I just don't see how it can be argued that screening more applicants is a bad thing. Sure it means more people may not accept an offer, but that's better than having people who didn't even know their child should be in the program.

Nobody argues that screening more kid is a bad thing. Who said that?

People are annoyed that MCPS has changed the flavor of the MS Magnets, to meet its goals instead of doing what is best for the kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Wow...these numbers are shocking to me. No wonder Asians are pissed. If you look at the report card grades, Asians carry the weight of pushing the scores upward in practically every school in mcps. You look at these report and see the drastic dropoff of Asians accepted, versus whites versus other races.

Really, Asians? There are that many students in MCPS schools who are immigrants from Asia?

Or are you talking about American kids?

DP

They are all American kids. They should all be labeled American kids.

But MCPS has decided to divide up the groups by race and has put an enormous amount of time and energy in focusing on the Achievement Gap. Take it up with MCPS. Personally, I’d prefer they’d quit their obsession with race.

MCPS can stop thinking about race when race becomes irrelevant in America. We're not there yet.

Meanwhile, yes, they are all American kids. Some of them are Asian-American kids, some of them are black or African-American kids, some of them are Latino American kids, some of them are white American kids....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Nobody argues that screening more kid is a bad thing. Who said that?

People are annoyed that MCPS has changed the flavor of the MS Magnets, to meet its goals instead of doing what is best for the kids.

it might not be best for your specific kid. That doesn't mean it's not best for the kids, in general.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What it clearly shows is how heavily people were self selecting for the magnets before universal screening. In 2016, 299 Asian students applied for Takoma, in 2018, 689 were screened--about a 60% increase. By comparison only only 241 white students applied in 2016, while 1230 were identified for screening in 2018--a five fold increase. Of course Asian numbers went down, they had a disproportionate interest in the program and they're applications from viable candidates were probably beyond saturation. Anything that causes more students to apply, is going to disadvantage such a group. URMs are still under represented but the numbers identified are up substantially. Meanwhile Asians are still represented at twice their population, whites at 25% their population--so in no way has anyone been shut out or a quota been instituted.

I just don't see how it can be argued that screening more applicants is a bad thing. Sure it means more people may not accept an offer, but that's better than having people who didn't even know their child should be in the program.

I agree. The new screening process took it out of the hands of parents. This data show that under the previous system, Asian parents were way more likely to submit an application for their children than all other races. Under the new system, all kinds of bright kids are being considered. From the perspective of the system as a whole, this is a very good thing.

I overheard something last year that stuck with me. My child was going to a tutoring center, and I overheard a parent in front of me saying it was such a shame that the tutoring center couldn’t teach her child how to score well on the Takoma exam anymore since they were changing the test and process. To her credit, the staff member at the tutoring center said “yes well I guess then the kids who get in will be the kids who really need it.” Boom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What it clearly shows is how heavily people were self selecting for the magnets before universal screening. In 2016, 299 Asian students applied for Takoma, in 2018, 689 were screened--about a 60% increase. By comparison only only 241 white students applied in 2016, while 1230 were identified for screening in 2018--a five fold increase. Of course Asian numbers went down, they had a disproportionate interest in the program and they're applications from viable candidates were probably beyond saturation. Anything that causes more students to apply, is going to disadvantage such a group. URMs are still under represented but the numbers identified are up substantially. Meanwhile Asians are still represented at twice their population, whites at 25% their population--so in no way has anyone been shut out or a quota been instituted.

I just don't see how it can be argued that screening more applicants is a bad thing. Sure it means more people may not accept an offer, but that's better than having people who didn't even know their child should be in the program.

+1 I have seen so many white parents in our school community who are anxious to prove that they are not “that parent” and would never get their kid screened if it were optional. Forums like this convince them that parents are crazy and their bright child is actually average. It helps to have the school system tell them that their kid could use some enrichment. And so many other parents, of all races, who have no idea what is going on, especially if they are ESOL.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What it clearly shows is how heavily people were self selecting for the magnets before universal screening. In 2016, 299 Asian students applied for Takoma, in 2018, 689 were screened--about a 60% increase. By comparison only only 241 white students applied in 2016, while 1230 were identified for screening in 2018--a five fold increase. Of course Asian numbers went down, they had a disproportionate interest in the program and they're applications from viable candidates were probably beyond saturation. Anything that causes more students to apply, is going to disadvantage such a group. URMs are still under represented but the numbers identified are up substantially. Meanwhile Asians are still represented at twice their population, whites at 25% their population--so in no way has anyone been shut out or a quota been instituted.

I just don't see how it can be argued that screening more applicants is a bad thing. Sure it means more people may not accept an offer, but that's better than having people who didn't even know their child should be in the program.

Nobody argues that screening more kid is a bad thing. Who said that?

People are annoyed that MCPS has changed the flavor of the MS Magnets, to meet its goals instead of doing what is best for the kids.

I guess the “flavor” is now less privilege and more need. How is that not best?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wait what greater good? In the end the % of URM minorities in the magnet barely changed but there are more lower scoring white kids than higher scoring asian kids. What greater good is it serving to admit a whit kid with 97% and turn away an asian kid with a 99%?

This didn't help poor AA or Latino kids. This helped mediocre white kids in lower performing schools and these kids already special seats set aside for them.

Just remove the special set aside for 1-2 dozen spots reserved for in boundary TP students who don't have to compete against the rest of the schools. Re-allocate those seats to minority FARMS students while letting the rest of the seats go to the highest performing kids. Will there be angry white Takoma Park parents? Yes but let them either work harder to score higher, move to private or move to a W school if they can't stand to be at TP if their snowflake isn't the magnet.

Totally agree with this. It is fine to change the program, so why not get rid of these set aside seats. It would be interesting to see the racial makeup of the kids who benefit from those seats. Who cares if the school is over capacity. Most of MCPS schools are over capacity.

It's also time to move the HS magnets out of Blair and over to Kennedy.

[Anonymous]

come on over to the MS magnet thread, discussing getting rid of middle school magnets entirely in exchange for truly enriched classes at all the home MS schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What it clearly shows is how heavily people were self selecting for the magnets before universal screening. In 2016, 299 Asian students applied for Takoma, in 2018, 689 were screened--about a 60% increase. By comparison only only 241 white students applied in 2016, while 1230 were identified for screening in 2018--a five fold increase. Of course Asian numbers went down, they had a disproportionate interest in the program and they're applications from viable candidates were probably beyond saturation. Anything that causes more students to apply, is going to disadvantage such a group. URMs are still under represented but the numbers identified are up substantially. Meanwhile Asians are still represented at twice their population, whites at 25% their population--so in no way has anyone been shut out or a quota been instituted.

I just don't see how it can be argued that screening more applicants is a bad thing. Sure it means more people may not accept an offer, but that's better than having people who didn't even know their child should be in the program.

It's a bad thing for parents who had gotten used to gaming the system to their child's advantage, but a good thing since changes like universal screening and cohort ensure more children benefit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:come on over to the MS magnet thread, discussing getting rid of middle school magnets entirely in exchange for truly enriched classes at all the home MS schools.

I agree school's like TPMS should allocate all their magnet slots to inbound students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Nobody argues that screening more kid is a bad thing. Who said that?

People are annoyed that MCPS has changed the flavor of the MS Magnets, to meet its goals instead of doing what is best for the kids.

it might not be best for your specific kid. That doesn't mean it's not best for the kids, in general.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What it clearly shows is how heavily people were self selecting for the magnets before universal screening. In 2016, 299 Asian students applied for Takoma, in 2018, 689 were screened--about a 60% increase. By comparison only only 241 white students applied in 2016, while 1230 were identified for screening in 2018--a five fold increase. Of course Asian numbers went down, they had a disproportionate interest in the program and they're applications from viable candidates were probably beyond saturation. Anything that causes more students to apply, is going to disadvantage such a group. URMs are still under represented but the numbers identified are up substantially. Meanwhile Asians are still represented at twice their population, whites at 25% their population--so in no way has anyone been shut out or a quota been instituted.

I just don't see how it can be argued that screening more applicants is a bad thing. Sure it means more people may not accept an offer, but that's better than having people who didn't even know their child should be in the program.

It's a bad thing for parents who had gotten used to gaming the system to their child's advantage, but a good thing since changes like universal screening and cohort ensure more children benefit.

Exactly, and no need to call it gaming the system, it was a system that benefited those in the know and worked by word of mouth. Yes, I know MCPS was contacting all parents and telling them they could apply, but I saw how it worked in my circle. Before my child was in ES, I met a parent who's kid was at an HGC, just knowing them and their experience made us more likely to apply later, my DC got in. Whenever I met a parent with younger kids I talked up the program. Twelve years on, I know a one block region of my neighborhood has been over represented in application programs. Now, maybe that's just a fluke and it would have worked out the same under universal screening, but I have my doubts. When you don't know anyone who's been involved in the magnets, parents are reluctant to pull their DC from the current school. It's much better to have parents make that decision after they know their child is eligible and they've had the opportunity to go to a selected students open house.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS uses geographic location as a proxy for race and exercises racial modeling. Basically too many Asians were taking up spots in the magnets. MCPS has been clear that to them this is a problem. In the 90s, they lost court cases when they tried to use race as a criteria to balance racial demographics for transfer requests (per the Metis report). MCPS is now trying to use geographic location and "cohort" to achieve racial modeling.

If you live in a area with a large asian population/high performing then its very unlikely that your kids will get in. Your kid can get a 99% and be rejected while a kid (even a white kid) in a low performing school can get a 96% and get in. Your kids will get to take a class with an enriched label but it isn't the same curriculum as the magnet and not much different than the courses in the home school before. Welcome to MCPS!

Maybe the folks who fought so hard not to allow MCPS to consider race should have considered downstream effects?

DP... are you saying MCPS should allow for race-based admission? Wow.

This is exactly what they are doing now. It's actually quite ingenious how they got around the law. I pulled this from an old thread.....

Administrator #1: "Wow, look at those SAT scores over there at Blair. It's really amazing isn't it? We need to send out a press release!"
Administrator #2: "Definitely! Hold on a second, all these names of Intel Scholars sound Asian. Let me see the full list of Magnet students. All these names sound Asian and White."
Administrator #1: "Yea, they've been gaming the system for years. Sending their kids to tutors, supplementing education, and actually filling out the application"
Administrator #2: "Oh no, we can't have that! That isn't fair"
Administrator #1: "I know. We send parents information and leave phone mail message constantly in both English and Spanish but Hispanics and African Americans don't apply"
Administrator #2: "It sounds like we need try and make the application easier."
Administrator #1: "I've got a better idea! Lets get rid of the application all together. Test everyone."
Administrator #2: "Brilliant! But what about the fact that Black and Hispanics test lower across the board on all standardized tests, how do we overcome that?"
Administrator #1: "We should just set up quotas by race."
Administrator #2: "I wish. They passed a stupid law against quotas."
Administrator #1: "Let's think, how can we get around the law. Most Whites and Asians like to live in the same snobby rich areas, right?"
Administrator #2: "Right... God I hate those Whites and Asians!"
Administrator #1: "Then lets say that if you live in an area where your home school has other really smart kids then you get penalized in the admissions process."
Administrator #2: "Great Idea! That way, we can say that we aren't giving preference to race, we can disguise it as preference by opportunity."
Administrator #1: "Wait, but won't that make the SAT scores at Blair go down? Won't that make us look bad?"
Administrator #2: "Of course it will but we are doing it for the greater good. Plus, we work for the Government. What are they going to do fire us?"
Administrator #1: "Ha ha ha ha ha ha!"
Administrator #2: "Ha ha ha ha he he ha ha!"

I was reading through this whole thread but had to stop here and post. This had me laughing and crying at the same time. It's sad how on point this is likely to be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What it clearly shows is how heavily people were self selecting for the magnets before universal screening. In 2016, 299 Asian students applied for Takoma, in 2018, 689 were screened--about a 60% increase. By comparison only only 241 white students applied in 2016, while 1230 were identified for screening in 2018--a five fold increase. Of course Asian numbers went down, they had a disproportionate interest in the program and they're applications from viable candidates were probably beyond saturation. Anything that causes more students to apply, is going to disadvantage such a group. URMs are still under represented but the numbers identified are up substantially. Meanwhile Asians are still represented at twice their population, whites at 25% their population--so in no way has anyone been shut out or a quota been instituted.

I just don't see how it can be argued that screening more applicants is a bad thing. Sure it means more people may not accept an offer, but that's better than having people who didn't even know their child should be in the program.

It's a bad thing for parents who had gotten used to gaming the system to their child's advantage, but a good thing since changes like universal screening and cohort ensure more children benefit.

Exactly, and no need to call it gaming the system, it was a system that benefited those in the know and worked by word of mouth. Yes, I know MCPS was contacting all parents and telling them they could apply, but I saw how it worked in my circle. Before my child was in ES, I met a parent who's kid was at an HGC, just knowing them and their experience made us more likely to apply later, my DC got in. Whenever I met a parent with younger kids I talked up the program. Twelve years on, I know a one block region of my neighborhood has been over represented in application programs. Now, maybe that's just a fluke and it would have worked out the same under universal screening, but I have my doubts. When you don't know anyone who's been involved in the magnets, parents are reluctant to pull their DC from the current school. It's much better to have parents make that decision after they know their child is eligible and they've had the opportunity to go to a selected students open house.

This line of reasoning is getting stale. Before they moved to the universal testing, there was no less than 2 phone calls per week for months (in both English and Spanish) explaining the magnet application process and the deadlines. This is on top of all the countless handouts and flyers that came home with the kids explaining the same thing. To simply say "I know MCPS was contacting all parents and telling them they could apply" is a huge understatement. It was overwhelming - so every parent was "in the know" unless they chose not to be. If you choose not to be involved in your child's education that child is likely not a good candidate for the Magnet program. I have a child at Blair and know that the only way to keep up with the rigors of the program is to have a strong support structure at home.