By the numbers: A dispassioned evaluation of Hardy (compared to Deal and Wilson)
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Anonymous
Right -- The priority could be avoiding the perception of inferiority. Hardy is perceived as inferior among a certain group of IB parents and Latin and Basis are not. Hardy has baggage. The charters do not. Parents who win the lottery are willing to commute every day to avoid being perceived as being inferior. Granted, some parents prefer the academic focus of those charters and would travel long distances from any part of the city to send their kids there, but I'm betting that is not the primary motivator for many IB Hardy parents. This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. We are zoned for Hardy, and Wilson, but never had any intention of going to Hardy or Wilson full stop. And I do not think we are alone in this in the least. You speak as if the parents at Mann and Key have not been going to private for years, as if they had no long term plans and then suddenly were faced with Hardy by surprise. I hardly think that the parents in the Mann and Key neighborhoods lack the ability to think long term when they make decisions about their lives - be they decisions about their professional careers or where to purchase a house. The economic recession was a surprise, but the market has recovered, most people like us have landed on our feet, and if we thought Hardy was our only obstacle to completing an entirely public school path in the city we would have moved into an area zoned for Deal. I would hazard a guess that those in Mann and Hardy who were hit hard enough by the recession that they could not afford private school like they expected would have been much more comfortable at places like Pyle and Whitman than having their children ultimately graduate from Wilson. I may be wrong, but I don't think so. And this has nothing to do with race - it has to do with economics. But the fact remains that there are at least 3 public schools ranked in the top 100 right across the river and there are quite a few very decent Catholic schools here in the city with lower tuition - the one that comes to my mind at the moment is St. Anselm's. Others have "profiled" the Key parents as the wealthiest of all those zoned for Wilson. What makes you think they ever intended to send their children to Wilson, much less to Hardy? I realize I am profiling these parents as well as well, and I want to make clear that the statements I am making have nothing to do with race. All of us have chosen deliberately to live fairly far away from metros, in relatively suburban areas of the city, in no small part undoubtedly due to the additional safety it confers. The fact that it has nothing to do with race is confirmed by the poster above who notes the racial demographics of the charter schools in question. It may, however, have a lot to do with our perception of poverty and all of the bad effects and influences and dangers it brings, as is borne out by the recent fight at Wilson that no one stopped, and the recent robbery spree by a Wilson student. We would have gone private. When Basis opened a school here, we took a calculated risk, and now all of our children have a path that we believe will better educate them and perhaps more successfully lead them to University. I would wager that those who bought in Janney were much more committed to Deal and Wilson from the get go. I think most of us are secure enough not to care what the rest of you think about the educational decisions we make for our children. That would include being strong enough to send our children to Hardy if we thought that was the best decision for our children. May I remind you that Washington Latin also has a uniform. It is often said that Washington DC has the highest NAEP scores in the country (for the white kids). My impression is that the Hardy kids do not contribute much to that either. That is not the peer group I want for my children, sorry. And I don't think there are many advanced scoring black kids, and those racial barriers are hard to break down at a school like Hardy. That being said, I was absolutely shocked by the amount of veiled criticism of our judgement and outright racism parents revealed when we told them we were sending our child to Basis the year that it opened. Granted it was, and Washington Latin was not, a high FARMS school at the time (neither is Deal, for that matter), but the pure prejudice that was revealed by some parents was truly shocking. I think perhaps they thought we were foreigners and had no idea what we were exposing our child to or what harm might befall them. Some of these parents had children at Deal and are intending to send them to Wilson. I consider that far more dangerous than Basis will be in high school which usually results in a 30-40% attrition rate because some children (understandably) want a different kind of high school experience. Many of them last year left for Walls or Wilson, and some went private. Even our score on the DC CAS our first year, with our FARMS population (third after Deal and Washington Latin) did nothing to stop the questions, but it did subtly alter their nature. Once the Basis kids proved they were just as good (and last year better than Washington Latin) academically despite our FARMS status, parents stopped bringing it up with us. I am not sure they stopped thinking about it however. This year, we have had a shift. Basis is now only 27% FARMS, and I expect we will do very well on the PARCC. Basis is a wonderful school. We have kids coming out of private schools to attend, and I think they are spot on. We also have a high foreign population, and I think that is because the existence of Comprehensive Exams is much more familiar to Europeans and something we expect and are comfortable with...... But I am still sad about how few kids come from Key and Mann to Basis each year, because we want more Mann and Key kids, and I think they are missing out. But most of them still go private. Most of the high SES children we get come from Brent and other schools on Capitol Hill where there are no acceptable MS options. Quite frankly, given the lack of white kids scoring "advanced" at Hardy, as a family we would not consider it an acceptable MS option, given how few white kids there are. The bar is so low - our kids have always scored advanced, and I think many of our friends have the same experience, because once a friend's child scored proficient in math and she was furious and brought it up with the school. Basis is fairly well integrated because the only way to be cool is to achieve intellectually, and kids from every background and color are doing that. So please, don't go to Hardy, come to Basis. I think the other myopic part of the above post is that both Washington Latin and Basis go through high school, and many parents do not want their children to attend Wilson. While it used to be the case that most of the higher SES kids at Washington Latin went private after 8th grade, it appears that more are staying. We never considered Wilson as an option........We also never considered Hardy or Washington Latin, and not because of the uniforms. |
Anonymous
This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. We are zoned for Hardy, and Wilson, but never had any intention of going to Hardy or Wilson full stop. And I do not think we are alone in this in the least. You speak as if the parents at Mann and Key have not been going to private for years, as if they had no long term plans and then suddenly were faced with Hardy by surprise. I hardly think that the parents in the Mann and Key neighborhoods lack the ability to think long term when they make decisions about their lives - be they decisions about their professional careers or where to purchase a house. The economic recession was a surprise, but the market has recovered, most people like us have landed on our feet, and if we thought Hardy was our only obstacle to completing an entirely public school path in the city we would have moved into an area zoned for Deal. I would hazard a guess that those in Mann and Hardy who were hit hard enough by the recession that they could not afford private school like they expected would have been much more comfortable at places like Pyle and Whitman than having their children ultimately graduate from Wilson. I may be wrong, but I don't think so. And this has nothing to do with race - it has to do with economics. But the fact remains that there are at least 3 public schools ranked in the top 100 right across the river and there are quite a few very decent Catholic schools here in the city with lower tuition - the one that comes to my mind at the moment is St. Anselm's. Others have "profiled" the Key parents as the wealthiest of all those zoned for Wilson. What makes you think they ever intended to send their children to Wilson, much less to Hardy? I realize I am profiling these parents as well as well, and I want to make clear that the statements I am making have nothing to do with race. All of us have chosen deliberately to live fairly far away from metros, in relatively suburban areas of the city, in no small part undoubtedly due to the additional safety it confers. The fact that it has nothing to do with race is confirmed by the poster above who notes the racial demographics of the charter schools in question. It may, however, have a lot to do with our perception of poverty and all of the bad effects and influences and dangers it brings, as is borne out by the recent fight at Wilson that no one stopped, and the recent robbery spree by a Wilson student. We would have gone private. When Basis opened a school here, we took a calculated risk, and now all of our children have a path that we believe will better educate them and perhaps more successfully lead them to University. I would wager that those who bought in Janney were much more committed to Deal and Wilson from the get go. I think most of us are secure enough not to care what the rest of you think about the educational decisions we make for our children. That would include being strong enough to send our children to Hardy if we thought that was the best decision for our children. May I remind you that Washington Latin also has a uniform. It is often said that Washington DC has the highest NAEP scores in the country (for the white kids). My impression is that the Hardy kids do not contribute much to that either. That is not the peer group I want for my children, sorry. And I don't think there are many advanced scoring black kids, and those racial barriers are hard to break down at a school like Hardy. That being said, I was absolutely shocked by the amount of veiled criticism of our judgement and outright racism parents revealed when we told them we were sending our child to Basis the year that it opened. Granted it was, and Washington Latin was not, a high FARMS school at the time (neither is Deal, for that matter), but the pure prejudice that was revealed by some parents was truly shocking. I think perhaps they thought we were foreigners and had no idea what we were exposing our child to or what harm might befall them. Some of these parents had children at Deal and are intending to send them to Wilson. I consider that far more dangerous than Basis will be in high school which usually results in a 30-40% attrition rate because some children (understandably) want a different kind of high school experience. Many of them last year left for Walls or Wilson, and some went private. Even our score on the DC CAS our first year, with our FARMS population (third after Deal and Washington Latin) did nothing to stop the questions, but it did subtly alter their nature. Once the Basis kids proved they were just as good (and last year better than Washington Latin) academically despite our FARMS status, parents stopped bringing it up with us. I am not sure they stopped thinking about it however. This year, we have had a shift. Basis is now only 27% FARMS, and I expect we will do very well on the PARCC. Basis is a wonderful school. We have kids coming out of private schools to attend, and I think they are spot on. We also have a high foreign population, and I think that is because the existence of Comprehensive Exams is much more familiar to Europeans and something we expect and are comfortable with...... But I am still sad about how few kids come from Key and Mann to Basis each year, because we want more Mann and Key kids, and I think they are missing out. But most of them still go private. Most of the high SES children we get come from Brent and other schools on Capitol Hill where there are no acceptable MS options. Quite frankly, given the lack of white kids scoring "advanced" at Hardy, as a family we would not consider it an acceptable MS option, given how few white kids there are. The bar is so low - our kids have always scored advanced, and I think many of our friends have the same experience, because once a friend's child scored proficient in math and she was furious and brought it up with the school. Basis is fairly well integrated because the only way to be cool is to achieve intellectually, and kids from every background and color are doing that. So please, don't go to Hardy, come to Basis. I think the other myopic part of the above post is that both Washington Latin and Basis go through high school, and many parents do not want their children to attend Wilson. While it used to be the case that most of the higher SES kids at Washington Latin went private after 8th grade, it appears that more are staying. We never considered Wilson as an option........We also never considered Hardy or Washington Latin, and not because of the uniforms. Hey PP, we are several years away from making the high school decision, and bilingual ed is important for us...but your post makes me believe Basis indeed deserves a good look. Thank you |
Anonymous
| Hey PP, we are several years away from making the high school decision, and bilingual ed is important for us...but your post makes me believe Basis indeed deserves a good look. Thank you |
Anonymous
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We are IB, live in a 1.6 million house and were not hit by the recession. We are happy at Hardy where our DC is thriving.
We never considered Basis, Latin or moving to MoCo for Pyle & Whitman. Only thing I agree is the presence of veiled criticism and outright racism. The first is changing though. BTW wealthiest families are at Mann, not at Key. |
Anonymous
We would have sent our child to Deal without hesitation. |
Anonymous
We never considered Basia , a school which does not value nor stimulates learning by project and teamwork . This is what modern academia and workplace is about . And we are so happy DC is having a lot of both at Hardy. Give time to the ongoing demographic changes to reflect on tests. Though Basis will always have an advantage in testing , given its individual testing culture. Maybe that's why Basis do not show up at the dc math team contest, and dc science fair contest. These are school team based events, where problems need to be solved in a coordinated fashion by teams, not individuals . |
Anonymous
| Basis, Enjoy the few Mann and key students you have while you can. In two years you'll have none. |
Anonymous
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Basis is a sad school. The truth is that students who stay after 8th are forced to stay by their parents. All kids I talked to had plans to move to SWW, Banneker, McKinley, Wilson...
After fights at home, at the end we allowed our DC to leave after 6th grade.She was right.... With the exception of math, DC is not more advanced than her peers at a good ( but not top) private. We were not expecting this. She's doing more art, more critical writing, projects, and has a healthier social life than before, where her interests and her favorite book are more relevant subjects than her test scores... We cannot afford two private tuitions, and we are now looking into Hardy ( our IB school) for our 4th grader. That's why I am here. Thank you OP for taking the time to analyze the numbers and translate them into intelligible facts for us. We are 90 percent on board for hardy, and intend to join our ES Hardy support group and initiatives. |
Anonymous
Let me add that DC was honors all terms but one before she left, so not exactly a mediocre student. DH is upset some readers might recognize her identity.. .. Who cares!! Those who have guessed my identity, feel free to contact me with questions / comments in private, anytime. |
Anonymous
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OP
Much of the social criticism I have read about the income gap focuses on how much even the .1% makes over the 1% which is still a huge gap for those in the 90%. Given what we can be known of people in these brackets couldn't we assume those kids in that part of DC were never going to Hardy? So realistically the percentage of kids with affluent parents that don't need you or me to get the stag may be increasing and is most likely not decreasing as a percentage in DC. Isn't this as a consequence really what hold Hardy back, there are just not enough of those sufficiently affluent kids ie. 80-90 % versus 1%. In my mind if we don't increase the income capacity of the parents in DC we can't really change the trajectories of most schools. |
Anonymous
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OP here.
Quick reply as I'm heading out the door. To the previous poster: in a word, no. You're misunderstanding the stag hunt. Coordination is needed for Hardy, not for the privates. But anyway, we're not talking about the 1% here. The highest income neighborhood (with sufficient people) is probably Spring Valley (or WH or Foxhall). The median household income here is about 300k. When talking about the "top 1%," realize the numbers you're actually saying. The top 3% starts at 310k and the top 2% starts at 330k (if I recall correctly). There's plenty of income and wealth feeding into Hardy. This makes private school attainable for many families, but it remains the case that private school tuition (let alone for multiple kids) is not affordable for even more families. The previous poster (with the long post) makes several misstatements and, frankly, I doubt whether he/she has actually read this thread. I will not offer a detailed retort. As someone else pointed out, the wealthiest families are in-bounds for Mann, not Key. Honestly, this isn't really even close and people from these areas would surely know it. I don't think the recession was that large of a deal in these neighborhoods, so I'm hesitant to ascribe much meaning to it. Incomes remained fairly stable, housing prices didn't decline, and retirement accounts cratered. I imagine -- and this is purely conjecture -- that people sending their kids to private finance this from income, not savings. Anyone with a sufficiently long horizon before retirement (say, greater than 7 years) could be very confident their retirement accounts would recover. I think a bigger issue is the international institutions. The IMF still pays 75% of private school tuitions (up to a generous cap). But they're the main outlier. World Bankers starting after 1998 (or 1996, I forget) no longer get this education benefit. The last of these people probably have kids near Hardy-age right now. That means that there is about to be a much larger pool of potential public school kids looking at middle school. (The IADB pays up to 12k a year, so I don't view this as enough for the top privates.) Anyway, I'll try to check in periodically when killing time. |
Anonymous
We do not think that Basis is a sad school at all, and there is a lot of critical thinking going on, but I will grant you that the English critical thinking tends to happen with more consistency in high school than say Chemistry or Physics. They are getting better at that. But we feel incredibly blessed that Basis showed up when it did, we have our kids there amongst a cohort of happy high performing kids. Many kids do not want to stay for high school. It takes a certain type. Attrition in AZ is 30% at least - the school is designed that way, and there is no stigma attached to leaving, and no expectation that everyone will stay. So I don't know where the sad kids are, but since your daughter was clearly one of them, I am glad she left. Two years at Basis is hardly long enough to measure what Basis could have done for her. |
Anonymous
Enough of the DC math team contest. We have heard on other threads that neither Basis nor Deal showed up because they did not have a teacher who was dedicated enough to volunteer or were afraid of the challenge, Hardy Booster. Did Washington Latin show up? Those are the top 3 MS by DC CAS right there for the last 2 years. My child participated in the first part of the science fair contest at Washington Latin and the judge did not understand the child's project (which did involve a lot of math, which child did by himself). Now at Basis we would never consider doing it again. That said, Basis has participated in the Certamen contest (Latin) and beat out all the public and private schools in the region every year (3 years in a row now, this time I think in two divisions, and in one we won 1st and 2nd, and only one team can go to regionals) including Washington Latin, and the same for Science Bowl, where this year and last year we have gone to Nationals...... not so exciting for us since nationals are held in........... Washington DC. We are a new school and are getting our feet wet in terms of different extracurriculars, but since our best math students are doing Algebra I in 5th grade they really cannot compete with your best 5th grade math students, nor can our best 8th graders. These students struggle on the DC CAS every year to remember math they have not done since 4th grade.... As a parent who is more honest and snottier than I will ever be on this issue said: Hardy parents: The best and the brightest 8th grade math students at Basis DC will be taking the AP Calculus AB exam this spring. Who is up for the challenge? you could have talked about Hardy without knocking Basis, but you just could not resist......... |
Anonymous
why? Will Washington Latin have any? Or is it because Hardy's star is on the rise............Which I believe and support. I have nothing against Hardy. We have STEM kids. For us Basis was an absolute no brainer and our kids are happy and staying through high school. Washington Latin does Algebra I in 7th and 8th grades. Anyone who is up for that with a kid who is good at math is mad IMO. That is about deceleration, not acceleration. Hardy and Deal don't do that, and neither does NCS. Dear Martha Cutts, take a memo. I don't see Basis and Hardy as in competition because those who want their kids at Wilson would rather stick with a cohort that is bound for Wilson anyway, whilst Basis kids are bound for Walls, Wilson, private, McKinley Tech, Banneker, and even some stay at Basis.......... I just don't like the Basis bashing going on here by Hardy parents. It started out with the math competition and has escalated from there and is absolutely ridiculous. Why can't we all just get along.......... |
Anonymous
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Not true that I was the one who could not resist. It was the PP of 04/06/2015 17:08 was intervened in this Hardy thread recommending "don't go to Hardy, come to Basis".
I just stated why we did not follow her advice. Not that I needed that, but your post confirmed my view, Basis has a teaching and monitoring culture based on individual, rather than social, performance, and zero room for creativity development. I have reason and knowledge to believe that factors beyond metrics measuring individual academic performance play a fundamental role in being accepted and succeed in top colleges and jobs. |