Why Muslims Don't Believe in Concept of Trinity

[Anonymous]

We're in a rut. Muslim OP is using several sad tactics:
- repeat claims that were refuted, just in case new readers never saw these refuted and nobody who refuted her is still on DCUM
- when she loses an argument badly (Ebionites, concubines, immigration), immediately bump up a lot of verbiage to change the subject, so her loss won't be the last thing on the thread.

[Anonymous]

If everything fails, there's always the "you evangelicalcrusaderchristianislamophobe you!"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Isn't the prejudice that nonMuslims feel toward Musims stem, at least in part, from the perceived differences in the religion? People seem to think islam and Christianity are polar opposites. IMO they are were not that different. The Christianity today is different. The original belief system was similar to Islam. You don't think this information, if accepted, has a unifying effect on Muslims and Christians?

You have no idea what the original belief system in Christianity was.

Islam and Christianity are different, and getting rid of trinity does nothing to change that.

No, I don't think that an average Christian, having found out that Muslims don't believe in Trinity, will suddenly slap his head and feel less prejudice toward Muslims. Prejudice toward Muslims has nothing to do with what they believe and everything to do with how they behave.

No one really cares what Muslims or anyone else believe. You are judged on your actions.

The intelligent person knows not to hold the faith of 1.6 billion people who are predominantly peaceful accountable or reflective for the actions of a few assholes. You are the exception.

[Anonymous]

I think it was quite a bit more than a few assholes who burned and looted after the prophet pictures thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If everything fails, there's always the "you evangelicalcrusaderchristianislamophobe you!"

My personal favorite: "You dense, schizophrenic, unemployable woman who burns food, is about to be divorced by her husband, has a neglected kid who is failing school and is into drugs and porn, and who wants to turn to Islam but is too afraid to convert"

Actually I think that was directed at two different posters, splitting the insults roughly equally between them. I think it's hilarious, though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm a real nerd, and this discussion got me interested in the Ebionites.

First off, there's a lot of debate about who the Ebionites were, and what we mean when we say "Ebionite". Appparently at one point all Judeo-Christians (i.e, still practicing Mosaic law) were referred to as "Ebionites." Also, there is a lot of "legend" (not my own word, see the Jewish source that follows) about individual Ebionite leaders and their groups (http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/5411-ebionites).

We do NOT have an original Ebionite gospel, despite Muslim OP's claims that we do. Many believe the Ebionites used a modified version of the Gospel of Matthew (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05242c.htm, also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=gospel+of+ebionites&go=Go), with some obvious differences about Christ's divinity. Some groups of Ebionites may have had almost gnostic beliefs (i.e., they may have shared the gnostic idea of the "demi-urge"), but there appears to have been a lot of variation. The Ebionites probably continued to observe Mosaic law and things like circumcision. But again, we will never know for sure, because the original Ebionite manuscripts have vanished.

There were apparently some contemporaneous accounts of various Ebionite groups, but all of these have been lost, with the exception of the fragment from Epiphanius, who may or may not have understood the Ebionites. Again, you can read this fragment here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=gospel+of+ebionites&go=Go. The references in Epiphanius to Ebionites arguing the point at which Jesus became divine (at birth vs. at baptism) are interesting for this debate on the Trinity, because this is the only fragment we still have today, and it doesn't actually challenge Christ's divinity.

I went to Dirk's website to see what exactly he says. There's nothing there about the Trinity, just how to contact him for speeches. (http://www.jeralddirksanddebradirks.com/)

Per his website, Dirks has been a practicing psychologist for the last 20 years. He is not, and never has been a Harvard Divinity School professor as OP claimed in her post of 09/11/2014 10:42 on the 2nd or 3rd page of thread. However, Dirks has taught at some Muslim middle schools. So I'm not sure about representing him as an eminent theologian. I definitely wouldn't put him in the same category as that home-churcher Muslim PP likes to cite as representative of all Christianity (this is the guy who says himself that he dropped out of two different universities because they told him not to take the Old Testament literally, but OP linked to this home churcher as supposed proof that all Christians should take the Old Testament literally). Also, it seems suggestive that none of the many online sites about the Ebionites even mention Dirks, although most of these sites (some of which I've linked to above) are very careful to cite multiple sources. You wouldn't necessarily expect the Christian websites to mention Dirks, but the Jewish sites or Wikipedia sources on the Ebionites might do so if he were a respected authority.

All of this suggests that Dirks' views on the Ebionites have yet to make him a widely-cited authority in this field. (How's that for an understatement?)

FWIW. Dirk's website makes it easy to contact him (for speaking gigs), so I'm not sure what OP is waiting for.

Bump.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If everything fails, there's always the "you evangelicalcrusaderchristianislamophobe you!"

My personal favorite: "You dense, schizophrenic, unemployable woman who burns food, is about to be divorced by her husband, has a neglected kid who is failing school and is into drugs and porn, and who wants to turn to Islam but is too afraid to convert"

Actually I think that was directed at two different posters, splitting the insults roughly equally between them. I think it's hilarious, though.

No worries, she will tell you it was all in good form since we villified Islam, i.e. didn't agree with her.

[Anonymous]

Then there are the apostolic oneness believers who are Christians but do not believe in a trinity, either.