Be Wary of Racism and Islamophobes

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You sound very privileged to enjoy the benefits of living in American society where you can have your cake, eat it too and not be beheaded for it. When you were in Saudi Arabia, were you privileged enough to walk down the street unaccompanied by a man?

You are too much. There's lots of women physicians in Saudi. Women there don't have rights but let's not pretend they don't have professional women, they do. And they are educated in the U.S. on the government dime, too.

Dont' mind her. She's the Islamophobe that hops from thread to thread spreading as much anti-Islam as she can.

Please. You are the misogynist that hops around from thread to thread spreading as much hatred of women as you can.

I am meeting my dress maker to get my full niqab made tomorrow. I feel it's only appropriate since I live in upper NW. I need to be proper and it will be so much more flattering than my yoga pants and bare face.

I have worked many jobs over the years and I would have been able to do NONE of them with a niqab on. Painter climbing 30 ft ladders, no, factory worker for food products, absolutely no.

so you don't have a real job and someone else must support you. How much allowance does your husband give you so you don't have to work?

Do you have a headset under the niqab so that your husband can contact you and tell you what to cook for dinner without you having to remove the niqab?? that would be cool, have it sewn into the cloth. And they could match the color black. Suggest it to the dress maker.

By the way, I love women. I love strong, free, healthy women. Nothing as good as having energetic sex with a human being that is your equal in thought,mind and deeds.

Pretty sure the PP who was talking about getting a noqab to cover her yoga pants was joking.

[Anonymous]

^^^ niqab

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You sound very privileged to enjoy the benefits of living in American society where you can have your cake, eat it too and not be beheaded for it. When you were in Saudi Arabia, were you privileged enough to walk down the street unaccompanied by a man?

You are too much. There's lots of women physicians in Saudi. Women there don't have rights but let's not pretend they don't have professional women, they do. And they are educated in the U.S. on the government dime, too.

Dont' mind her. She's the Islamophobe that hops from thread to thread spreading as much anti-Islam as she can.

Please. You are the misogynist that hops around from thread to thread spreading as much hatred of women as you can.

I am meeting my dress maker to get my full niqab made tomorrow. I feel it's only appropriate since I live in upper NW. I need to be proper and it will be so much more flattering than my yoga pants and bare face.

I have worked many jobs over the years and I would have been able to do NONE of them with a niqab on. Painter climbing 30 ft ladders, no, factory worker for food products, absolutely no.

so you don't have a real job and someone else must support you. How much allowance does your husband give you so you don't have to work?

Do you have a headset under the niqab so that your husband can contact you and tell you what to cook for dinner without you having to remove the niqab?? that would be cool, have it sewn into the cloth. And they could match the color black. Suggest it to the dress maker.

By the way, I love women. I love strong, free, healthy women. Nothing as good as having energetic sex with a human being that is your equal in thought,mind and deeds.

Pretty sure the PP who was talking about getting a noqab to cover her yoga pants was joking.

What a woman wears, pink hair, punk hair, mini skirt, yoga pants, shalwar khameez, or niqab, is her business. To each his own.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in Saudi Arabia many years ago and yes women walked down the street unaccompanied, but of course fully veiled. you would even see women (usually with a baby) begging at street corners.

Women walk alone in the street all the time in Egypt, North Africa, and the Levantine countries. Prior to the rise of Islamic fundamentalism the vast majority did not cover up, but that has changed and many now wear hijab. Women also drive unaccompanied in those latter countries.

I performed Hajj several years ago and even in Mecca women were walking unaccompanied, with their husbands, or their children, or with other women. I saw them shopping in the malls alone too. Distinctly remember one veiled Arab woman buying extraordinary jewelry in the mall there, all by herself.

Do you understand the meaning of "unaccompanied"?

I remember a youtube video of a fully-veiled woman with a 7-year old child walking down the street of Riyadh and the drivers in passing cars stopping and honking, blocking her way.

[Anonymous]

Uncharacteristically coming to PP's defense. The problem is with the language she used. She wrote:

"I performed Hajj several years ago and even in Mecca women were walking unaccompanied, with their husbands, or their children, or with other women. "

What she meant was along the lines of:

"I performed Hajj several years ago and even in Mecca women were walking unaccompanied, as well as with their husbands, or their children, or with other women.

There is plenty to criticize about the position of women in Saudi Arabia, but there is no prohibition on women walking unaccompanied on the street. (Although as one PP noted it rarely happens as everyone is driven everywhere in the Saudi Arabia of today, where walking has become a lost art.)

As I recall, however, I think the Taliban in Afghanistan did prohibit women from walking in public unaccompanied.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Uncharacteristically coming to PP's defense. The problem is with the language she used. She wrote:

"I performed Hajj several years ago and even in Mecca women were walking unaccompanied, with their husbands, or their children, or with other women. "

What she meant was along the lines of:

"I performed Hajj several years ago and even in Mecca women were walking unaccompanied, as well as with their husbands, or their children, or with other women.

There is plenty to criticize about the position of women in Saudi Arabia, but there is no prohibition on women walking unaccompanied on the street. (Although as one PP noted it rarely happens as everyone is driven everywhere in the Saudi Arabia of today, where walking has become a lost art.)

As I recall, however, I think the Taliban in Afghanistan did prohibit women from walking in public unaccompanied.

I think that's not an honest way to address this. Saudi Arabia doesn't have any formal laws banning women driving either. The question you should ask is: is it culturally appropriate in Saudi Arabia to walk in the street unaccompanied if you are a woman?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Uncharacteristically coming to PP's defense. The problem is with the language she used. She wrote:

"I performed Hajj several years ago and even in Mecca women were walking unaccompanied, with their husbands, or their children, or with other women. "

What she meant was along the lines of:

"I performed Hajj several years ago and even in Mecca women were walking unaccompanied, as well as with their husbands, or their children, or with other women.

There is plenty to criticize about the position of women in Saudi Arabia, but there is no prohibition on women walking unaccompanied on the street. (Although as one PP noted it rarely happens as everyone is driven everywhere in the Saudi Arabia of today, where walking has become a lost art.)

As I recall, however, I think the Taliban in Afghanistan did prohibit women from walking in public unaccompanied.

I think that's not an honest way to address this. Saudi Arabia doesn't have any formal laws banning women driving either. The question you should ask is: is it culturally appropriate in Saudi Arabia to walk in the street unaccompanied if you are a woman?

Unequivocally, yes a woman can walk around unaccompanied. However, culturally the fact that you are walking around may indicate you are too poor to have a driver so you may not do it. But this is a class issue, not a religious one.

Women can and do walk in the street unaccompanied and have always done so in Arabia.

Am wondering why you find it so hard to believe that this is the case... (And believe me I am not one of the PP Islamic apologists on these threads and have posed my share of hard questions and comments to the PPs who are.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Uncharacteristically coming to PP's defense. The problem is with the language she used. She wrote:

"I performed Hajj several years ago and even in Mecca women were walking unaccompanied, with their husbands, or their children, or with other women. "

What she meant was along the lines of:

"I performed Hajj several years ago and even in Mecca women were walking unaccompanied, as well as with their husbands, or their children, or with other women.

There is plenty to criticize about the position of women in Saudi Arabia, but there is no prohibition on women walking unaccompanied on the street. (Although as one PP noted it rarely happens as everyone is driven everywhere in the Saudi Arabia of today, where walking has become a lost art.)

As I recall, however, I think the Taliban in Afghanistan did prohibit women from walking in public unaccompanied.

Thank you for clarifying my point, PP. I didn't think it needed explaining but with these folks…Sigh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Uncharacteristically coming to PP's defense. The problem is with the language she used. She wrote:

"I performed Hajj several years ago and even in Mecca women were walking unaccompanied, with their husbands, or their children, or with other women. "

What she meant was along the lines of:

"I performed Hajj several years ago and even in Mecca women were walking unaccompanied, as well as with their husbands, or their children, or with other women.

There is plenty to criticize about the position of women in Saudi Arabia, but there is no prohibition on women walking unaccompanied on the street. (Although as one PP noted it rarely happens as everyone is driven everywhere in the Saudi Arabia of today, where walking has become a lost art.)

As I recall, however, I think the Taliban in Afghanistan did prohibit women from walking in public unaccompanied.

I think that's not an honest way to address this. Saudi Arabia doesn't have any formal laws banning women driving either. The question you should ask is: is it culturally appropriate in Saudi Arabia to walk in the street unaccompanied if you are a woman?

Unequivocally, yes a woman can walk around unaccompanied. However, culturally the fact that you are walking around may indicate you are too poor to have a driver so you may not do it. But this is a class issue, not a religious one.

Women can and do walk in the street unaccompanied and have always done so in Arabia.

Am wondering why you find it so hard to believe that this is the case... (And believe me I am not one of the PP Islamic apologists on these threads and have posed my share of hard questions and comments to the PPs who are.)

My husband is Saudi and he said he wouldn't let either his sisters or me walk in the street unaccompanied. And he's as liberal as it gets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Uncharacteristically coming to PP's defense. The problem is with the language she used. She wrote:

"I performed Hajj several years ago and even in Mecca women were walking unaccompanied, with their husbands, or their children, or with other women. "

What she meant was along the lines of:

"I performed Hajj several years ago and even in Mecca women were walking unaccompanied, as well as with their husbands, or their children, or with other women.

There is plenty to criticize about the position of women in Saudi Arabia, but there is no prohibition on women walking unaccompanied on the street. (Although as one PP noted it rarely happens as everyone is driven everywhere in the Saudi Arabia of today, where walking has become a lost art.)

As I recall, however, I think the Taliban in Afghanistan did prohibit women from walking in public unaccompanied.

I think that's not an honest way to address this. Saudi Arabia doesn't have any formal laws banning women driving either. The question you should ask is: is it culturally appropriate in Saudi Arabia to walk in the street unaccompanied if you are a woman?

Unequivocally, yes a woman can walk around unaccompanied. However, culturally the fact that you are walking around may indicate you are too poor to have a driver so you may not do it. But this is a class issue, not a religious one.

Women can and do walk in the street unaccompanied and have always done so in Arabia.

Am wondering why you find it so hard to believe that this is the case... (And believe me I am not one of the PP Islamic apologists on these threads and have posed my share of hard questions and comments to the PPs who are.)

My husband is Saudi and he said he wouldn't let either his sisters or me walk in the street unaccompanied. And he's as liberal as it gets.

Perhaps he is worried about harassment. I grew up in Saudi Arabia (100% white American) and it definitely was common to see Saudi women unaccompanied on the streets and in and out of the stores. Granted, this was a long time ago and harassment of women of any sort, including foreign women, would have been severely dealt with. There has been a shift in the culture, though, so maybe harassment of foreign women is more tolerated than it was, jeopardizing Saudi women as well.

I have lived in other Middle Eastern countries and the newspapers regularly report on men being picked up for harassment of women in the street. One middle-aged Arab women I know beat a harasser unconscious with her handbag. The police sent hm to the hospital and charged him. She was interviewed briefly at the police station for her victim statement. No one would have dreamed of charging her with assault.

[Anonymous]

Please.

I have had clients (females) who have worked for the State Department in Saudi Arabia and have come back with such severe PTSD that they simply cannot function here and work normally.

I have also had clients (men) who work for the State Department dealing with middle eastern countries. All have advised me not to date or marry men from these countries. I wonder why.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Please.

I have had clients (females) who have worked for the State Department in Saudi Arabia and have come back with such severe PTSD that they simply cannot function here and work normally.

I have also had clients (men) who work for the State Department dealing with middle eastern countries. All have advised me not to date or marry men from these countries. I wonder why.

Don't know what to make of this. Know many American women who have lived in Saudi Arabia and none has had anything close to PTSD--they actually enjoyed their time there.

Also don't know what to make of your male clients advising you not to date or marry Arabs. I also know many American women married to Arabs and some of the marriages are good and some are bad, much like one sees anywhere. Some of the men are kind, funny, generous, and loyal and others are not.

I can see where the women could have a harder time discerning whether a man from another culture has these positive qualities or not and perhaps have a hard time adjusting to the different culture, but you really seem to be hinting at something more ominous...

Also don't get the "Please" in response to a statement that, yes, women can walk in the streets unaccompanied in Saudi Arabia. It is an expression of doubt? Or were these women harassed in the street?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please.

I have had clients (females) who have worked for the State Department in Saudi Arabia and have come back with such severe PTSD that they simply cannot function here and work normally.

I have also had clients (men) who work for the State Department dealing with middle eastern countries. All have advised me not to date or marry men from these countries. I wonder why.

Don't know what to make of this. Know many American women who have lived in Saudi Arabia and none has had anything close to PTSD--they actually enjoyed their time there.

Also don't know what to make of your male clients advising you not to date or marry Arabs. I also know many American women married to Arabs and some of the marriages are good and some are bad, much like one sees anywhere. Some of the men are kind, funny, generous, and loyal and others are not.

I can see where the women could have a harder time discerning whether a man from another culture has these positive qualities or not and perhaps have a hard time adjusting to the different culture, but you really seem to be hinting at something more ominous...

Also don't get the "Please" in response to a statement that, yes, women can walk in the streets unaccompanied in Saudi Arabia. It is an expression of doubt? Or were these women harassed in the street?

As a women who has traveled in the Middle East my perception is that in affluent, suburban areas of the countries you have no problem. Problems begin to exist if you travel to poor, disenfranchised tribal areas where cultural influences of that area influence the treatment of people.

[Anonymous]

As another woman who has travelled in the Middle East , a lot depends on how you are dressed. You don't have to veil but it helps to dress modestly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As another woman who has travelled in the Middle East , a lot depends on how you are dressed. You don't have to veil but it helps to dress modestly.

Another thing I have found is that the better you are dressed the better off you are. Ideally, for going out in the street to shop you would dress as if you were going to a formal tea American women often make the mistake of thinking that if they dress down they are less likely to draw negative attention, but the opposite is true.