Prepping/Scamming the Cogat

[Anonymous]

Form is like the format...not the exact questions. One studies the form(at) of the SATs but one isn't seeing the same questions on the SATs even if he/she takes the exam more than once.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

There are only so many ways to write these questions. When children practice questions from previous tests over and over again, they become quite familiar with the format of the test. Thus, when they encounter questions which will be similar to those they have been practicing they will be able to answer with very little thought.
One of the qualities the tests measure is how well a child can respond to a type of question they have never seen before. The test results are invalidated when the child has seen similar questions over and over again in practice situations.

The tests are bogus period (as used by the County) because individuals with money and the right zip code have access to schools, teachers and tutors that prepare children for all these tests on a daily basis whether the test is scheduled next week or next year..

But most people don't do specific test prepping with their second graders. Even people with money in the right zip code. There are businesses out there that make a lot of money off parents by selling them these test prep courses and materials. These businesses don't want parents to think that second grade test prepping is considered inappropriate by the county. They want parents to think that it's just evening the playing field with the rich folks, and they certainly don't want people to say that test prepping is scamming as the title of this thread seems to indicate.

[Anonymous]

Do not beat around the bush.

Answer the question.

Was the CogAT test the kids used the same as was administered? Yes or No

No waffling, no defensiveness, no hedging. If not. Case closed.

The answer to your question is no. FCPS changed from CoGAT to FxAT because parents were prepping for the CoGAT using practice tests that have the "same format". The "same format" obviously does not have the same meaning as having the "exact test", "exact answers", or the "same as was administered" test.

It is pretty clear that FCPS would be happy if parents quit prepping because it throws off the results (implying that prepping works) but they have never said anything that even remotely implies that there is an epedimic of cheating going on. FFCPS also does not invalidate AAP tests for anyone who preps. Perhaps FCPS will one day eventually get around to it by subjecting students to polygraphs, having the children and parents give swarn statements, turn in their classmates or something but there is no such policy right now.

[Anonymous]

Aren't there similar test preparation materials available for the NNAT? Wonder why so much emphasis on prep for only the CogAT.

[Anonymous]

Look People, the link says some had access to the exact same form, it has to be the exact test questions as well. Mercer has been selling cogat practice tests for some time now. Its been mentioned on this site for years. I know because thats how I "prepped" my kid 2 years ago. There is absolutely no way fcps could not have known mercer was selling practice tests for years now. And as above poster mentioned, mercer has been selling the nnat practice test as well for the same amount of time and no mention of that from fcps.
Poster at 15:54 is either intentionally lying or cant read. The fcps link does not say "exact format", its says "EXACT FORM."

[Anonymous]

Semantics and obfuscation aside, it is clear that the school district prefers that parents not use test prep materials with their second graders.
Test prep "works" in the sense that it teaches children ahead of time how to answer certain kinds of questions that are meant to be seen for the first time on test day. The results are invalidated not because Fairfax County "catches" anyone, but because the results are then not a measurement of a child's ability to answer questions of a type that have never been seen before but instead a measure of how well a child can answer a question type that has been reviewed many, many times. When the child has reviewed sample tests for 30 minutes a day for many weeks, the test results are no longer telling us anything about the child's ability to grasp a new concept.

[Anonymous]

The answer to the County problem is not to tell parents and children not to read, write, practise, study, or prepare (for fear it might help them for their silly test); but, to simply make the exam tougher and harder. How far away from the test date should children and their teachers and parents pretend not to do any intellectual activities which may be construed as preparing or aiding performance on a test? This is really a silly discussion by individuals who have no inkling what preparation really means. This is always a problem when you have bureaucrats in charge of education. Any good teacher or professor knows -- it's not the students' fault, it's the fault of the test.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Semantics and obfuscation aside, it is clear that the school district prefers that parents not use test prep materials with their second graders.
Test prep "works" in the sense that it teaches children ahead of time how to answer certain kinds of questions that are meant to be seen for the first time on test day. The results are invalidated not because Fairfax County "catches" anyone, but because the results are then not a measurement of a child's ability to answer questions of a type that have never been seen before but instead a measure of how well a child can answer a question type that has been reviewed many, many times. When the child has reviewed sample tests for 30 minutes a day for many weeks, the test results are no longer telling us anything about the child's ability to grasp a new concept.

I disagree all heartedly. I think the school system appreciates the students that are in the system and the parents that care enough to see that their kids score high on these tests...without downright cheating. There is a reason why fcps is in high regard on a nationwide comparison. The students it puts out do exceptionally well on the whole and it does nothing but make the school administrators look good. I dont think the results are invalidated since they are being used to determine a portion of the aap pool. Many of us see prepping as just good parenting and spending quality time with our kids. You also learn a lot about your kids abilities working through the problems with them.

[Anonymous]

Semantics and obfuscation aside, it is clear that the school district prefers that parents not use test prep materials with their second graders. Test prep "works" in the sense that it teaches children ahead of time how to answer certain kinds of questions that are meant to be seen for the first time on test day. The results are invalidated not because Fairfax County "catches" anyone, but because the results are then not a measurement of a child's ability to answer questions of a type that have never been seen before but instead a measure of how well a child can answer a question type that has been reviewed many, many times. When the child has reviewed sample tests for 30 minutes a day for many weeks, the test results are no longer telling us anything about the child's ability to grasp a new concept.

Tests have become commodities the 21st century age of information. There is no way in hell you can blind children, teachers and parents from knowledge and information in present day society. How "far ahead of time" does this prohibition (or blinding) of information to certain kinds of questions take effect? the day before the test? the week of the test? the year of the test? out-of-state or country?

The problem is not with the student, the problem is with the use, purpose and function of the particular test and the bureaucrats using this test. That's where the solution begins.

[Anonymous]

It appears kids in FCPS are too bright. Raise the bar and administer a tough as hell test. Don't tell the students to dumb it down. No studying or preparation allowed...sounds absolutely ludicrous. Why do you think records get broken over time and it becomes necessary to raise the bar? The 4-minute mile is no longer some mythic barrier since with hard work and preparation runners have gotten faster!! Raise the damn bar FCPS and don't tell the runners to trot.

[Anonymous]

When everyone on a test gets an A or 40 percent of the County is labelled gifted it becomes very difficult to distinguish or tease them apart even though in reality there are obvious performance differences in the group. The best way to see the separation is to administer a test many standard deviations above that grade level. Only then will the bureaucrats get the separation and granularity they seek to allocate their scarce resources.

[Anonymous]

Aren't there similar test preparation materials available for the NNAT? Wonder why so much emphasis on prep for only the CogAT.

Let's not play naive. Ambitious families and their children will try to prepare (prep) for everything.

[Anonymous]

There are all sorts of educational activities that parents can do with their young children that don't involve sample ability test questions. The school system is asking people not to use test prep courses and materials, not to avoid any kind of educationally enriching situation.

Test prep businesses woud have you believe that only their books and courses can increase your child's intelligence. All they do is increase a child's ability to take tests, not to actually do anything with their intelligence.

Instead of spending 30minutes a day with test prep, spend 30 minutes a day reading to your young child. Fairfax County has a fantastic library system with all sorts of resources- totally free to all of us. Exposure to good books enhances vocabulary and allows a child to hear grammatically correct sentence structure while learning about almost any type of content you can imagine.
You can get way more bang for your buck with a library book and an armful of books than any test prep book you can buy!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are all sorts of educational activities that parents can do with their young children that don't involve sample ability test questions. The school system is asking people not to use test prep courses and materials, not to avoid any kind of educationally enriching situation.

Test prep businesses woud have you believe that only their books and courses can increase your child's intelligence. All they do is increase a child's ability to take tests, not to actually do anything with their intelligence.

Instead of spending 30minutes a day with test prep, spend 30 minutes a day reading to your young child. Fairfax County has a fantastic library system with all sorts of resources- totally free to all of us. Exposure to good books enhances vocabulary and allows a child to hear grammatically correct sentence structure while learning about almost any type of content you can imagine.
You can get way more bang for your buck with a library book and an armful of books than any test prep book you can buy!

Oops, a free library CARD and an armful of books. Hit submit before proofreading!

[Anonymous]

There are all sorts of educational activities that parents can do with their young children that don't involve sample ability test questions. The school system is asking people not to use test prep courses and materials, not to avoid any kind of educationally enriching situation. Test prep businesses woud have you believe that only their books and courses can increase your child's intelligence. All they do is increase a child's ability to take tests, not to actually do anything with their intelligence.

Instead of spending 30minutes a day with test prep, spend 30 minutes a day reading to your young child. Fairfax County has a fantastic library system with all sorts of resources- totally free to all of us. Exposure to good books enhances vocabulary and allows a child to hear grammatically correct sentence structure while learning about almost any type of content you can imagine.
You can get way more bang for your buck with a library book and an armful of books than any test prep book you can buy!

OK, Einstein. As long as I don't buy any commercial materials I am fine; but, I can prepare my child with the knowledge I possess and make up my own form questions--even if these will mimic the test form?
You are going down a very slippery slope since many students who prepare are using non commercial methods for very effective prep!! These students do not even use the County's fantastic library system with the plethora of resources. Many prefer the comfort of their homes in front of the computer screen where the limits of the imagination and the world wide web are the only barriers to simulating any testing form or format you desire.