How is everyone affording all of this international travel?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have mastered the points game. In the last three years and through summer 2026, I have taken myself and two kids to Amsterdam, London, Turkey, Morocco, Scandinavia, Colombia, Italy and Peru. Free flights everywhere, free hotels some places. It turned out well worth it for my family.

So am I correct in thinking that three people for eight return trips at 30-40k points each way means 1.4-1.9 million points in three years? How did you accumulate those?

It's not 30 to 40K points each way. Europe via Air France before devaluation could be had at 17K each way, and AF prices Maghreb the same as Europe, which means you could fly to Morocco under 25K. Add in a transfer bonus and you're set. I watch for transfer bonuses and book almost a year out. I booked three roundtrip tickets to Vienna for 55K total with a Virgin transfer bonus (40% at the time). We fly economy usually, and this year will be the first I had enough points for PE to Italy (34K each) and business to Lima (50K each).

As to how I accumulate it, I get about 3-5 new cards each year, milk Amex for retention bonuses, and shop Rakuten. There is no real magic to it, just checking all the boxes, taking advantage of opportunities the second you see them, and being flexible with dates and destinations.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Everyone mentioning points always neglect that there's always taxes and fees you still have to pay, especially for flights. 12,000 points plus $400 in tax and fees is typical for a cheap points ticket on economy to London using British Airways and Virgin as examples. Using one cent to the point, it's marginally cheaper than booking with cash. So the 50,000 points plus $200 in taxes and fees if flying to Paris or Amsterdam on KLM also isn't as great of a deal either (all assuming you use cash back as the alternative use for points).

But points can get you good deals on hotels.

OP, I have always traveled even when a broke grad student. I make a good income now but I still travel frugally. It's easy to travel cheaply in Europe while still having a good trip. The cost of living is so high in the US that a two week in Europe is partially offset by savings on consumption in the US during those two weeks. Most people traveling internationally are paying for it out of income, not family money or whatever. It’s a blend of salary and budgets. To be in the top 10% of wage earners in the US you need a salary of around $165k, and anyone making $100k+ can make an international trip happen, so assume at least 20% of Americans can afford to travel overseas. That is a lot of people.

Last but not least, flights have never been as cheap as they are now. I can buy round trip tickets to Europe slightly off season for $550 if booking far enough in advance. That is what we were paying for tickets to London 30 years ago!

I just booked round trip business from the US to New Zealand/Australia and the taxes were $75 per per person per leg, so $300 total. Cash value was ~$6500 a ticket. No one is using CPP on economy tickets.

And how many points was it? You conveniently left that off. And then compare the points + fees with the cost of an economy ticket, as that is the starting point for most people.

I'm glancing at the points calculators, business tickets to Europe typically have tax/fees starting at 500 each way. On top of 150k points. One airline seems to buck the trend and that is United, with much lower fees both economy and business, but much higher points required too. So it's a wash. Because if you're being honest, what you're probably doing is paying the cost of an economy ticket to fly business.

You can get better deals if booking much further out, 12 months, instead of six or so, but it does mean significant commitment long in advance.

It was 166k each round trip. No one is paying $400 in taxes and fees to flying to Europe unless you’re flying business with Flying Blue. Book a flight through a partner that doesn’t pass along fuel charges. I’ve never paid more than ~$70 per person per leg to fly business Europe.

I am looking at reward calculators. Virgin round trip to London from DC in March is 12k points plus $440. For economy. Upper class is well over a thousand. FlyBlue is over $600 for Amsterdam or Paris in business plus 300k+ points.

United is 305k points round trip plus $384 in business. For economy it is 71k points plus $214.

Virgin and Flying Blue pass along fuel surcharges. Here are a bunch of random upcoming business class flights I just found. DCA-JFK-LHR on AA for 70k+$5.60. IAD to DUB on Aer Lingus Via Alaska for 45k+$19. IAD to MUC On Lufthansa via Air Canada for 70k+$56. Maybe if you spent less time being smug and more time learning the hobby you'd understand how wrong you are.

You are quite hostile and rude. I looked at the reward booking options across multiple airlines and still can't find these amazing flight deals. You mentioned AA, and random midweek dates in March is still showing me 115k points plus $1,889 for business class. Next July is 410k points though taxes and fees is only $427. You didn't tell us the dates you're using so I'm guessing those are a year out?

I have spent hours plotting and strategizing these possible flights and am just not seeing these fabulous deals.

NP and I find AA miles really hard to use, especially for international travel and with multiple people. I inadvertently let my last 40k AAdvantage miles expire from inactivity and don't have the energy to call to try to find some way to earn them back, it just doesn't seem worth it. IIRC you can sometimes have better success calling them to book because not all of the eligible partner airlines are available for online booking, unless that's changed.

In general international business travel is a hard way to use points IME. It’s the goal for most people but I guess that’s why it’s so hard - demand has gotten a lot higher and most flights only have 6-8 business seats that release at the “saver” points price.

I do love AA for domestic points though. We can fly to AZ or CA for 7500-10k points each way. We’ve flown to see family in VT for 5500 points each way. I keep trying to use AA points for the Caribbean but unless you want crazy bad layovers the points prices are very high.

I agree, but so many posters are claiming on here that that is how they are able to travel so much internationally, by using points.

I have used points to travel internationally in J/F at least once a year every single year since 2014. It might be difficult for some people but it isn’t for everyone.

During peak school break periods with 4 or more seats? I highly doubt it. If it’s true, then either share how you do it, or keep it to yourself if you aren’t willing to share.

Not that PP, but we have flown business 4 times to Europe using miles in summer in the last 10 years, with a family of 4. Use credit card bonuses. We have gone business outbound on the overnight, and economy on the daytime returns.

1. First one was on American, it was 110k/person originally, and then 4 days before departure, savers for 58k/person opened up on the same flights, had to pay around $300 to change, but saved 200k miles.

2. Second one was on American, in November of the year before they opened up a massive amount of business saver inventory for the upcoming summer for about 2 days. Booked an okay itinerary, and then a few months later got an itinerary change and moved to a better itinerary- later departure to maximize sleep.

3. Third one was in summer 2022, booked 9 months before, when travel was still pretty iffy, young kids hadn't had shots yet, you still needed to test negative to board a flight back to the US. Flew Virgin to London, booked through Air France (lower fees) for 60k+$200/person, there was a transfer bonus from Amex so it was only 50k Amex points per person. This was a matter of good timing, got lucky that demand was still pretty low in late 2021, so there was good availability. By June 2022 they removed the testing requirement so that made things a lot easier for the trip.

4. Last one was booked at schedule open, a full 11.5 months in advance, Air France but cost 90k/person+ $200. Usually best you can get on AF is 60k one way for business, but that's really hard to find, and I knew 90k was good and probably wasn't gonna get any better. I kept checking later and it never went below 130k/person.

Those are all one way mileage costs, we got econ awards back for usually around 30k/person.

It's getting harder every year, and definitely takes work and knowing how it all works.

You did well to do those flights in the last 10 years, but unfortunately that wouldn’t be possible going forward. Point inflation has been terrible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have mastered the points game. In the last three years and through summer 2026, I have taken myself and two kids to Amsterdam, London, Turkey, Morocco, Scandinavia, Colombia, Italy and Peru. Free flights everywhere, free hotels some places. It turned out well worth it for my family.

So am I correct in thinking that three people for eight return trips at 30-40k points each way means 1.4-1.9 million points in three years? How did you accumulate those?

It's not 30 to 40K points each way. Europe via Air France before devaluation could be had at 17K each way, and AF prices Maghreb the same as Europe, which means you could fly to Morocco under 25K. Add in a transfer bonus and you're set. I watch for transfer bonuses and book almost a year out. I booked three roundtrip tickets to Vienna for 55K total with a Virgin transfer bonus (40% at the time). We fly economy usually, and this year will be the first I had enough points for PE to Italy (34K each) and business to Lima (50K each).

As to how I accumulate it, I get about 3-5 new cards each year, milk Amex for retention bonuses, and shop Rakuten. There is no real magic to it, just checking all the boxes, taking advantage of opportunities the second you see them, and being flexible with dates and destinations.

Sounds like you’re very skilled at this, but unfortunately it’s now kind of irrelevant how much it was pre-inflation isn’t it? Has Air France had the same level of inflation as other airlines??

What is a retention bonus?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have mastered the points game. In the last three years and through summer 2026, I have taken myself and two kids to Amsterdam, London, Turkey, Morocco, Scandinavia, Colombia, Italy and Peru. Free flights everywhere, free hotels some places. It turned out well worth it for my family.

So am I correct in thinking that three people for eight return trips at 30-40k points each way means 1.4-1.9 million points in three years? How did you accumulate those?

It's not 30 to 40K points each way. Europe via Air France before devaluation could be had at 17K each way, and AF prices Maghreb the same as Europe, which means you could fly to Morocco under 25K. Add in a transfer bonus and you're set. I watch for transfer bonuses and book almost a year out. I booked three roundtrip tickets to Vienna for 55K total with a Virgin transfer bonus (40% at the time). We fly economy usually, and this year will be the first I had enough points for PE to Italy (34K each) and business to Lima (50K each).

As to how I accumulate it, I get about 3-5 new cards each year, milk Amex for retention bonuses, and shop Rakuten. There is no real magic to it, just checking all the boxes, taking advantage of opportunities the second you see them, and being flexible with dates and destinations.

Sounds like you’re very skilled at this, but unfortunately it’s now kind of irrelevant how much it was pre-inflation isn’t it? Has Air France had the same level of inflation as other airlines??

What is a retention bonus?

How do you monitor transfer bonuses?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Everyone mentioning points always neglect that there's always taxes and fees you still have to pay, especially for flights. 12,000 points plus $400 in tax and fees is typical for a cheap points ticket on economy to London using British Airways and Virgin as examples. Using one cent to the point, it's marginally cheaper than booking with cash. So the 50,000 points plus $200 in taxes and fees if flying to Paris or Amsterdam on KLM also isn't as great of a deal either (all assuming you use cash back as the alternative use for points).

But points can get you good deals on hotels.

OP, I have always traveled even when a broke grad student. I make a good income now but I still travel frugally. It's easy to travel cheaply in Europe while still having a good trip. The cost of living is so high in the US that a two week in Europe is partially offset by savings on consumption in the US during those two weeks. Most people traveling internationally are paying for it out of income, not family money or whatever. It’s a blend of salary and budgets. To be in the top 10% of wage earners in the US you need a salary of around $165k, and anyone making $100k+ can make an international trip happen, so assume at least 20% of Americans can afford to travel overseas. That is a lot of people.

Last but not least, flights have never been as cheap as they are now. I can buy round trip tickets to Europe slightly off season for $550 if booking far enough in advance. That is what we were paying for tickets to London 30 years ago!

I just booked round trip business from the US to New Zealand/Australia and the taxes were $75 per per person per leg, so $300 total. Cash value was ~$6500 a ticket. No one is using CPP on economy tickets.

And how many points was it? You conveniently left that off. And then compare the points + fees with the cost of an economy ticket, as that is the starting point for most people.

I'm glancing at the points calculators, business tickets to Europe typically have tax/fees starting at 500 each way. On top of 150k points. One airline seems to buck the trend and that is United, with much lower fees both economy and business, but much higher points required too. So it's a wash. Because if you're being honest, what you're probably doing is paying the cost of an economy ticket to fly business.

You can get better deals if booking much further out, 12 months, instead of six or so, but it does mean significant commitment long in advance.

It was 166k each round trip. No one is paying $400 in taxes and fees to flying to Europe unless you’re flying business with Flying Blue. Book a flight through a partner that doesn’t pass along fuel charges. I’ve never paid more than ~$70 per person per leg to fly business Europe.

I am looking at reward calculators. Virgin round trip to London from DC in March is 12k points plus $440. For economy. Upper class is well over a thousand. FlyBlue is over $600 for Amsterdam or Paris in business plus 300k+ points.

United is 305k points round trip plus $384 in business. For economy it is 71k points plus $214.

Virgin and Flying Blue pass along fuel surcharges. Here are a bunch of random upcoming business class flights I just found. DCA-JFK-LHR on AA for 70k+$5.60. IAD to DUB on Aer Lingus Via Alaska for 45k+$19. IAD to MUC On Lufthansa via Air Canada for 70k+$56. Maybe if you spent less time being smug and more time learning the hobby you'd understand how wrong you are.

You are quite hostile and rude. I looked at the reward booking options across multiple airlines and still can't find these amazing flight deals. You mentioned AA, and random midweek dates in March is still showing me 115k points plus $1,889 for business class. Next July is 410k points though taxes and fees is only $427. You didn't tell us the dates you're using so I'm guessing those are a year out?

I have spent hours plotting and strategizing these possible flights and am just not seeing these fabulous deals.

NP and I find AA miles really hard to use, especially for international travel and with multiple people. I inadvertently let my last 40k AAdvantage miles expire from inactivity and don't have the energy to call to try to find some way to earn them back, it just doesn't seem worth it. IIRC you can sometimes have better success calling them to book because not all of the eligible partner airlines are available for online booking, unless that's changed.

In general international business travel is a hard way to use points IME. It’s the goal for most people but I guess that’s why it’s so hard - demand has gotten a lot higher and most flights only have 6-8 business seats that release at the “saver” points price.

I do love AA for domestic points though. We can fly to AZ or CA for 7500-10k points each way. We’ve flown to see family in VT for 5500 points each way. I keep trying to use AA points for the Caribbean but unless you want crazy bad layovers the points prices are very high.

I agree, but so many posters are claiming on here that that is how they are able to travel so much internationally, by using points.

I have used points to travel internationally in J/F at least once a year every single year since 2014. It might be difficult for some people but it isn’t for everyone.

During peak school break periods with 4 or more seats? I highly doubt it. If it’s true, then either share how you do it, or keep it to yourself if you aren’t willing to share.

Not that PP, but we have flown business 4 times to Europe using miles in summer in the last 10 years, with a family of 4. Use credit card bonuses. We have gone business outbound on the overnight, and economy on the daytime returns.

1. First one was on American, it was 110k/person originally, and then 4 days before departure, savers for 58k/person opened up on the same flights, had to pay around $300 to change, but saved 200k miles.

2. Second one was on American, in November of the year before they opened up a massive amount of business saver inventory for the upcoming summer for about 2 days. Booked an okay itinerary, and then a few months later got an itinerary change and moved to a better itinerary- later departure to maximize sleep.

3. Third one was in summer 2022, booked 9 months before, when travel was still pretty iffy, young kids hadn't had shots yet, you still needed to test negative to board a flight back to the US. Flew Virgin to London, booked through Air France (lower fees) for 60k+$200/person, there was a transfer bonus from Amex so it was only 50k Amex points per person. This was a matter of good timing, got lucky that demand was still pretty low in late 2021, so there was good availability. By June 2022 they removed the testing requirement so that made things a lot easier for the trip.

4. Last one was booked at schedule open, a full 11.5 months in advance, Air France but cost 90k/person+ $200. Usually best you can get on AF is 60k one way for business, but that's really hard to find, and I knew 90k was good and probably wasn't gonna get any better. I kept checking later and it never went below 130k/person.

Those are all one way mileage costs, we got econ awards back for usually around 30k/person.

It's getting harder every year, and definitely takes work and knowing how it all works.

You did well to do those flights in the last 10 years, but unfortunately that wouldn’t be possible going forward. Point inflation has been terrible.

Actually, I think these rates aren't even particularly low, assuming they are one way. AF still has 60K business class availability. 90K is high for me, to Europe, and 110K is way high. It's challenging to find 4 seats together, yes. But the rates this poster referenced are neither low nor unusual. But good job finding blocks of 4!! That's very good!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have mastered the points game. In the last three years and through summer 2026, I have taken myself and two kids to Amsterdam, London, Turkey, Morocco, Scandinavia, Colombia, Italy and Peru. Free flights everywhere, free hotels some places. It turned out well worth it for my family.

So am I correct in thinking that three people for eight return trips at 30-40k points each way means 1.4-1.9 million points in three years? How did you accumulate those?

It's not 30 to 40K points each way. Europe via Air France before devaluation could be had at 17K each way, and AF prices Maghreb the same as Europe, which means you could fly to Morocco under 25K. Add in a transfer bonus and you're set. I watch for transfer bonuses and book almost a year out. I booked three roundtrip tickets to Vienna for 55K total with a Virgin transfer bonus (40% at the time). We fly economy usually, and this year will be the first I had enough points for PE to Italy (34K each) and business to Lima (50K each).

As to how I accumulate it, I get about 3-5 new cards each year, milk Amex for retention bonuses, and shop Rakuten. There is no real magic to it, just checking all the boxes, taking advantage of opportunities the second you see them, and being flexible with dates and destinations.

Sounds like you’re very skilled at this, but unfortunately it’s now kind of irrelevant how much it was pre-inflation isn’t it? Has Air France had the same level of inflation as other airlines??

What is a retention bonus?

How do you monitor transfer bonuses?

Just google every month or so, this is widely disseminated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have mastered the points game. In the last three years and through summer 2026, I have taken myself and two kids to Amsterdam, London, Turkey, Morocco, Scandinavia, Colombia, Italy and Peru. Free flights everywhere, free hotels some places. It turned out well worth it for my family.

So am I correct in thinking that three people for eight return trips at 30-40k points each way means 1.4-1.9 million points in three years? How did you accumulate those?

It's not 30 to 40K points each way. Europe via Air France before devaluation could be had at 17K each way, and AF prices Maghreb the same as Europe, which means you could fly to Morocco under 25K. Add in a transfer bonus and you're set. I watch for transfer bonuses and book almost a year out. I booked three roundtrip tickets to Vienna for 55K total with a Virgin transfer bonus (40% at the time). We fly economy usually, and this year will be the first I had enough points for PE to Italy (34K each) and business to Lima (50K each).

As to how I accumulate it, I get about 3-5 new cards each year, milk Amex for retention bonuses, and shop Rakuten. There is no real magic to it, just checking all the boxes, taking advantage of opportunities the second you see them, and being flexible with dates and destinations.

Sounds like you’re very skilled at this, but unfortunately it’s now kind of irrelevant how much it was pre-inflation isn’t it? Has Air France had the same level of inflation as other airlines??

What is a retention bonus?

AF inflated points rates only by 5K so it's not the end of the world.

I would describe my skill level as moderate, I'm nowhere near people who are really good at this. I want to plan a trip to Japan and China for the 2026-2027 winter break, and that will be a real test to separate girls from women

A retention bonus is something Amex gives out to keep their customers. It's literally just starting a chat on the Amex website close to the date of your annual fee posting and saying, I'm thinking of closing the card and was wondering if there are any retention bonuses on the table. Answers will vary wildly but at various times I received 25K and 50K just for the pleasure of my continued patronage of their fine establishment. I've also got a bunch of noes! But what did it cost me? a few minutes of chatting so all good.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone mentioning points always neglect that there's always taxes and fees you still have to pay, especially for flights. 12,000 points plus $400 in tax and fees is typical for a cheap points ticket on economy to London using British Airways and Virgin as examples. Using one cent to the point, it's marginally cheaper than booking with cash. So the 50,000 points plus $200 in taxes and fees if flying to Paris or Amsterdam on KLM also isn't as great of a deal either (all assuming you use cash back as the alternative use for points).

But points can get you good deals on hotels.

OP, I have always traveled even when a broke grad student. I make a good income now but I still travel frugally. It's easy to travel cheaply in Europe while still having a good trip. The cost of living is so high in the US that a two week in Europe is partially offset by savings on consumption in the US during those two weeks. Most people traveling internationally are paying for it out of income, not family money or whatever. It’s a blend of salary and budgets. To be in the top 10% of wage earners in the US you need a salary of around $165k, and anyone making $100k+ can make an international trip happen, so assume at least 20% of Americans can afford to travel overseas. That is a lot of people.

Last but not least, flights have never been as cheap as they are now. I can buy round trip tickets to Europe slightly off season for $550 if booking far enough in advance. That is what we were paying for tickets to London 30 years ago!

I just booked round trip business from the US to New Zealand/Australia and the taxes were $75 per per person per leg, so $300 total. Cash value was ~$6500 a ticket. No one is using CPP on economy tickets.

And how many points was it? You conveniently left that off. And then compare the points + fees with the cost of an economy ticket, as that is the starting point for most people.

I'm glancing at the points calculators, business tickets to Europe typically have tax/fees starting at 500 each way. On top of 150k points. One airline seems to buck the trend and that is United, with much lower fees both economy and business, but much higher points required too. So it's a wash. Because if you're being honest, what you're probably doing is paying the cost of an economy ticket to fly business.

You can get better deals if booking much further out, 12 months, instead of six or so, but it does mean significant commitment long in advance.

It was 166k each round trip. No one is paying $400 in taxes and fees to flying to Europe unless you’re flying business with Flying Blue. Book a flight through a partner that doesn’t pass along fuel charges. I’ve never paid more than ~$70 per person per leg to fly business Europe.

I am looking at reward calculators. Virgin round trip to London from DC in March is 12k points plus $440. For economy. Upper class is well over a thousand. FlyBlue is over $600 for Amsterdam or Paris in business plus 300k+ points.

United is 305k points round trip plus $384 in business. For economy it is 71k points plus $214.

Virgin and Flying Blue pass along fuel surcharges. Here are a bunch of random upcoming business class flights I just found. DCA-JFK-LHR on AA for 70k+$5.60. IAD to DUB on Aer Lingus Via Alaska for 45k+$19. IAD to MUC On Lufthansa via Air Canada for 70k+$56. Maybe if you spent less time being smug and more time learning the hobby you'd understand how wrong you are.

You are quite hostile and rude. I looked at the reward booking options across multiple airlines and still can't find these amazing flight deals. You mentioned AA, and random midweek dates in March is still showing me 115k points plus $1,889 for business class. Next July is 410k points though taxes and fees is only $427. You didn't tell us the dates you're using so I'm guessing those are a year out?

I have spent hours plotting and strategizing these possible flights and am just not seeing these fabulous deals.

NP and I find AA miles really hard to use, especially for international travel and with multiple people. I inadvertently let my last 40k AAdvantage miles expire from inactivity and don't have the energy to call to try to find some way to earn them back, it just doesn't seem worth it. IIRC you can sometimes have better success calling them to book because not all of the eligible partner airlines are available for online booking, unless that's changed.

In general international business travel is a hard way to use points IME. It’s the goal for most people but I guess that’s why it’s so hard - demand has gotten a lot higher and most flights only have 6-8 business seats that release at the “saver” points price.

I do love AA for domestic points though. We can fly to AZ or CA for 7500-10k points each way. We’ve flown to see family in VT for 5500 points each way. I keep trying to use AA points for the Caribbean but unless you want crazy bad layovers the points prices are very high.

I agree, but so many posters are claiming on here that that is how they are able to travel so much internationally, by using points.

I have used points to travel internationally in J/F at least once a year every single year since 2014. It might be difficult for some people but it isn’t for everyone.

During peak school break periods with 4 or more seats? I highly doubt it. If it’s true, then either share how you do it, or keep it to yourself if you aren’t willing to share.

Not that PP, but we have flown business 4 times to Europe using miles in summer in the last 10 years, with a family of 4. Use credit card bonuses. We have gone business outbound on the overnight, and economy on the daytime returns.

1. First one was on American, it was 110k/person originally, and then 4 days before departure, savers for 58k/person opened up on the same flights, had to pay around $300 to change, but saved 200k miles.

2. Second one was on American, in November of the year before they opened up a massive amount of business saver inventory for the upcoming summer for about 2 days. Booked an okay itinerary, and then a few months later got an itinerary change and moved to a better itinerary- later departure to maximize sleep.

3. Third one was in summer 2022, booked 9 months before, when travel was still pretty iffy, young kids hadn't had shots yet, you still needed to test negative to board a flight back to the US. Flew Virgin to London, booked through Air France (lower fees) for 60k+$200/person, there was a transfer bonus from Amex so it was only 50k Amex points per person. This was a matter of good timing, got lucky that demand was still pretty low in late 2021, so there was good availability. By June 2022 they removed the testing requirement so that made things a lot easier for the trip.

4. Last one was booked at schedule open, a full 11.5 months in advance, Air France but cost 90k/person+ $200. Usually best you can get on AF is 60k one way for business, but that's really hard to find, and I knew 90k was good and probably wasn't gonna get any better. I kept checking later and it never went below 130k/person.

Those are all one way mileage costs, we got econ awards back for usually around 30k/person.

It's getting harder every year, and definitely takes work and knowing how it all works.

You did well to do those flights in the last 10 years, but unfortunately that wouldn’t be possible going forward. Point inflation has been terrible.

Actually, I think these rates aren't even particularly low, assuming they are one way. AF still has 60K business class availability. 90K is high for me, to Europe, and 110K is way high. It's challenging to find 4 seats together, yes. But the rates this poster referenced are neither low nor unusual. But good job finding blocks of 4!! That's very good!!

What are your tips for using points on Air France? Do you book through Air France or through a partner airline? Which credit cards work best to accumulate points? Are there particular destinations that are good value and have good availability? So many questions!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone mentioning points always neglect that there's always taxes and fees you still have to pay, especially for flights. 12,000 points plus $400 in tax and fees is typical for a cheap points ticket on economy to London using British Airways and Virgin as examples. Using one cent to the point, it's marginally cheaper than booking with cash. So the 50,000 points plus $200 in taxes and fees if flying to Paris or Amsterdam on KLM also isn't as great of a deal either (all assuming you use cash back as the alternative use for points).

But points can get you good deals on hotels.

OP, I have always traveled even when a broke grad student. I make a good income now but I still travel frugally. It's easy to travel cheaply in Europe while still having a good trip. The cost of living is so high in the US that a two week in Europe is partially offset by savings on consumption in the US during those two weeks. Most people traveling internationally are paying for it out of income, not family money or whatever. It’s a blend of salary and budgets. To be in the top 10% of wage earners in the US you need a salary of around $165k, and anyone making $100k+ can make an international trip happen, so assume at least 20% of Americans can afford to travel overseas. That is a lot of people.

Last but not least, flights have never been as cheap as they are now. I can buy round trip tickets to Europe slightly off season for $550 if booking far enough in advance. That is what we were paying for tickets to London 30 years ago!

I just booked round trip business from the US to New Zealand/Australia and the taxes were $75 per per person per leg, so $300 total. Cash value was ~$6500 a ticket. No one is using CPP on economy tickets.

And how many points was it? You conveniently left that off. And then compare the points + fees with the cost of an economy ticket, as that is the starting point for most people.

I'm glancing at the points calculators, business tickets to Europe typically have tax/fees starting at 500 each way. On top of 150k points. One airline seems to buck the trend and that is United, with much lower fees both economy and business, but much higher points required too. So it's a wash. Because if you're being honest, what you're probably doing is paying the cost of an economy ticket to fly business.

You can get better deals if booking much further out, 12 months, instead of six or so, but it does mean significant commitment long in advance.

It was 166k each round trip. No one is paying $400 in taxes and fees to flying to Europe unless you’re flying business with Flying Blue. Book a flight through a partner that doesn’t pass along fuel charges. I’ve never paid more than ~$70 per person per leg to fly business Europe.

I am looking at reward calculators. Virgin round trip to London from DC in March is 12k points plus $440. For economy. Upper class is well over a thousand. FlyBlue is over $600 for Amsterdam or Paris in business plus 300k+ points.

United is 305k points round trip plus $384 in business. For economy it is 71k points plus $214.

Virgin and Flying Blue pass along fuel surcharges. Here are a bunch of random upcoming business class flights I just found. DCA-JFK-LHR on AA for 70k+$5.60. IAD to DUB on Aer Lingus Via Alaska for 45k+$19. IAD to MUC On Lufthansa via Air Canada for 70k+$56. Maybe if you spent less time being smug and more time learning the hobby you'd understand how wrong you are.

You are quite hostile and rude. I looked at the reward booking options across multiple airlines and still can't find these amazing flight deals. You mentioned AA, and random midweek dates in March is still showing me 115k points plus $1,889 for business class. Next July is 410k points though taxes and fees is only $427. You didn't tell us the dates you're using so I'm guessing those are a year out?

I have spent hours plotting and strategizing these possible flights and am just not seeing these fabulous deals.

NP and I find AA miles really hard to use, especially for international travel and with multiple people. I inadvertently let my last 40k AAdvantage miles expire from inactivity and don't have the energy to call to try to find some way to earn them back, it just doesn't seem worth it. IIRC you can sometimes have better success calling them to book because not all of the eligible partner airlines are available for online booking, unless that's changed.

In general international business travel is a hard way to use points IME. It’s the goal for most people but I guess that’s why it’s so hard - demand has gotten a lot higher and most flights only have 6-8 business seats that release at the “saver” points price.

I do love AA for domestic points though. We can fly to AZ or CA for 7500-10k points each way. We’ve flown to see family in VT for 5500 points each way. I keep trying to use AA points for the Caribbean but unless you want crazy bad layovers the points prices are very high.

I agree, but so many posters are claiming on here that that is how they are able to travel so much internationally, by using points.

I have used points to travel internationally in J/F at least once a year every single year since 2014. It might be difficult for some people but it isn’t for everyone.

During peak school break periods with 4 or more seats? I highly doubt it. If it’s true, then either share how you do it, or keep it to yourself if you aren’t willing to share.

Not that PP, but we have flown business 4 times to Europe using miles in summer in the last 10 years, with a family of 4. Use credit card bonuses. We have gone business outbound on the overnight, and economy on the daytime returns.

1. First one was on American, it was 110k/person originally, and then 4 days before departure, savers for 58k/person opened up on the same flights, had to pay around $300 to change, but saved 200k miles.

2. Second one was on American, in November of the year before they opened up a massive amount of business saver inventory for the upcoming summer for about 2 days. Booked an okay itinerary, and then a few months later got an itinerary change and moved to a better itinerary- later departure to maximize sleep.

3. Third one was in summer 2022, booked 9 months before, when travel was still pretty iffy, young kids hadn't had shots yet, you still needed to test negative to board a flight back to the US. Flew Virgin to London, booked through Air France (lower fees) for 60k+$200/person, there was a transfer bonus from Amex so it was only 50k Amex points per person. This was a matter of good timing, got lucky that demand was still pretty low in late 2021, so there was good availability. By June 2022 they removed the testing requirement so that made things a lot easier for the trip.

4. Last one was booked at schedule open, a full 11.5 months in advance, Air France but cost 90k/person+ $200. Usually best you can get on AF is 60k one way for business, but that's really hard to find, and I knew 90k was good and probably wasn't gonna get any better. I kept checking later and it never went below 130k/person.

Those are all one way mileage costs, we got econ awards back for usually around 30k/person.

It's getting harder every year, and definitely takes work and knowing how it all works.

You did well to do those flights in the last 10 years, but unfortunately that wouldn’t be possible going forward. Point inflation has been terrible.

Actually, I think these rates aren't even particularly low, assuming they are one way. AF still has 60K business class availability. 90K is high for me, to Europe, and 110K is way high. It's challenging to find 4 seats together, yes. But the rates this poster referenced are neither low nor unusual. But good job finding blocks of 4!! That's very good!!

What are your tips for using points on Air France? Do you book through Air France or through a partner airline? Which credit cards work best to accumulate points? Are there particular destinations that are good value and have good availability? So many questions!

My #1 tip for booking AF with points is staying flexible. When you log in and search for award tickets, leave the date field open. This will open a monthly calendar view, and you will see pricing on every day of that month with low saver rates marked in green. You can click through the entire year to see the dates far out. Virgin has an award seat checker that likewise shows pricing a year out every month. There are a bunch of tools like these but obviously you have to like doing it. Some people don't!

I find Amex to be the most generous with points offers if you can stomach their annual fees and meet the spend. Right now there is a targeted offer for a business gold amex for 200,000 points with a 15K spend in 3 months. I can't spend that much that quickly so will have to let that go, tearfully.

Chase has the same partner airlines as Amex, much lower bonuses, but it has a crown jewel Amex doesn't: Hyatt, with its ridiculously low point rates. Still good to get a bunch of Chase cards, just space out your Inks six months or so apart, they've been getting stingy.

Shop on Rakuten and opt to receive your cashback in Amex points. They pay out on a quarterly basis and for instance, in November I will get 45K points I accumulated just from regular shopping (watch for 10X and 15X days).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Everyone mentioning points always neglect that there's always taxes and fees you still have to pay, especially for flights. 12,000 points plus $400 in tax and fees is typical for a cheap points ticket on economy to London using British Airways and Virgin as examples. Using one cent to the point, it's marginally cheaper than booking with cash. So the 50,000 points plus $200 in taxes and fees if flying to Paris or Amsterdam on KLM also isn't as great of a deal either (all assuming you use cash back as the alternative use for points).

You are correct that cheap tickets to Europe can be had for cash, but you are not comparing apples to apples. Points tickets are fully refundable with a standard luggage allowance, and you can select seats a few days before you fly. Many cheap cash tickets are based on a "basic economy" standard - fees for luggage, not refundable etc. So it's all right to compare, but compare like with like, which would be a fully refundable standard luggage allowance cash ticket.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Everyone mentioning points always neglect that there's always taxes and fees you still have to pay, especially for flights. 12,000 points plus $400 in tax and fees is typical for a cheap points ticket on economy to London using British Airways and Virgin as examples. Using one cent to the point, it's marginally cheaper than booking with cash. So the 50,000 points plus $200 in taxes and fees if flying to Paris or Amsterdam on KLM also isn't as great of a deal either (all assuming you use cash back as the alternative use for points).

But points can get you good deals on hotels.

OP, I have always traveled even when a broke grad student. I make a good income now but I still travel frugally. It's easy to travel cheaply in Europe while still having a good trip. The cost of living is so high in the US that a two week in Europe is partially offset by savings on consumption in the US during those two weeks. Most people traveling internationally are paying for it out of income, not family money or whatever. It’s a blend of salary and budgets. To be in the top 10% of wage earners in the US you need a salary of around $165k, and anyone making $100k+ can make an international trip happen, so assume at least 20% of Americans can afford to travel overseas. That is a lot of people.

Last but not least, flights have never been as cheap as they are now. I can buy round trip tickets to Europe slightly off season for $550 if booking far enough in advance. That is what we were paying for tickets to London 30 years ago!

I just booked round trip business from the US to New Zealand/Australia and the taxes were $75 per per person per leg, so $300 total. Cash value was ~$6500 a ticket. No one is using CPP on economy tickets.

And how many points was it? You conveniently left that off. And then compare the points + fees with the cost of an economy ticket, as that is the starting point for most people.

I'm glancing at the points calculators, business tickets to Europe typically have tax/fees starting at 500 each way. On top of 150k points. One airline seems to buck the trend and that is United, with much lower fees both economy and business, but much higher points required too. So it's a wash. Because if you're being honest, what you're probably doing is paying the cost of an economy ticket to fly business.

You can get better deals if booking much further out, 12 months, instead of six or so, but it does mean significant commitment long in advance.

It was 166k each round trip. No one is paying $400 in taxes and fees to flying to Europe unless you’re flying business with Flying Blue. Book a flight through a partner that doesn’t pass along fuel charges. I’ve never paid more than ~$70 per person per leg to fly business Europe.

I am looking at reward calculators. Virgin round trip to London from DC in March is 12k points plus $440. For economy. Upper class is well over a thousand. FlyBlue is over $600 for Amsterdam or Paris in business plus 300k+ points.

United is 305k points round trip plus $384 in business. For economy it is 71k points plus $214.

Virgin and Flying Blue pass along fuel surcharges. Here are a bunch of random upcoming business class flights I just found. DCA-JFK-LHR on AA for 70k+$5.60. IAD to DUB on Aer Lingus Via Alaska for 45k+$19. IAD to MUC On Lufthansa via Air Canada for 70k+$56. Maybe if you spent less time being smug and more time learning the hobby you'd understand how wrong you are.

You are quite hostile and rude. I looked at the reward booking options across multiple airlines and still can't find these amazing flight deals. You mentioned AA, and random midweek dates in March is still showing me 115k points plus $1,889 for business class. Next July is 410k points though taxes and fees is only $427. You didn't tell us the dates you're using so I'm guessing those are a year out?

I have spent hours plotting and strategizing these possible flights and am just not seeing these fabulous deals.

NP and I find AA miles really hard to use, especially for international travel and with multiple people. I inadvertently let my last 40k AAdvantage miles expire from inactivity and don't have the energy to call to try to find some way to earn them back, it just doesn't seem worth it. IIRC you can sometimes have better success calling them to book because not all of the eligible partner airlines are available for online booking, unless that's changed.

In general international business travel is a hard way to use points IME. It’s the goal for most people but I guess that’s why it’s so hard - demand has gotten a lot higher and most flights only have 6-8 business seats that release at the “saver” points price.

I do love AA for domestic points though. We can fly to AZ or CA for 7500-10k points each way. We’ve flown to see family in VT for 5500 points each way. I keep trying to use AA points for the Caribbean but unless you want crazy bad layovers the points prices are very high.

I agree, but so many posters are claiming on here that that is how they are able to travel so much internationally, by using points.

I have used points to travel internationally in J/F at least once a year every single year since 2014. It might be difficult for some people but it isn’t for everyone.

During peak school break periods with 4 or more seats? I highly doubt it. If it’s true, then either share how you do it, or keep it to yourself if you aren’t willing to share.

Not that PP, but we have flown business 4 times to Europe using miles in summer in the last 10 years, with a family of 4. Use credit card bonuses. We have gone business outbound on the overnight, and economy on the daytime returns.

1. First one was on American, it was 110k/person originally, and then 4 days before departure, savers for 58k/person opened up on the same flights, had to pay around $300 to change, but saved 200k miles.

2. Second one was on American, in November of the year before they opened up a massive amount of business saver inventory for the upcoming summer for about 2 days. Booked an okay itinerary, and then a few months later got an itinerary change and moved to a better itinerary- later departure to maximize sleep.

3. Third one was in summer 2022, booked 9 months before, when travel was still pretty iffy, young kids hadn't had shots yet, you still needed to test negative to board a flight back to the US. Flew Virgin to London, booked through Air France (lower fees) for 60k+$200/person, there was a transfer bonus from Amex so it was only 50k Amex points per person. This was a matter of good timing, got lucky that demand was still pretty low in late 2021, so there was good availability. By June 2022 they removed the testing requirement so that made things a lot easier for the trip.

4. Last one was booked at schedule open, a full 11.5 months in advance, Air France but cost 90k/person+ $200. Usually best you can get on AF is 60k one way for business, but that's really hard to find, and I knew 90k was good and probably wasn't gonna get any better. I kept checking later and it never went below 130k/person.

Those are all one way mileage costs, we got econ awards back for usually around 30k/person.

It's getting harder every year, and definitely takes work and knowing how it all works.

You did well to do those flights in the last 10 years, but unfortunately that wouldn’t be possible going forward. Point inflation has been terrible.

Actually, I think these rates aren't even particularly low, assuming they are one way. AF still has 60K business class availability. 90K is high for me, to Europe, and 110K is way high. It's challenging to find 4 seats together, yes. But the rates this poster referenced are neither low nor unusual. But good job finding blocks of 4!! That's very good!!

What are your tips for using points on Air France? Do you book through Air France or through a partner airline? Which credit cards work best to accumulate points? Are there particular destinations that are good value and have good availability? So many questions!

You typically want to book Air France through Air France, particularly if you fan hit a transfer bonus like the one from AMEX right now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Everyone mentioning points always neglect that there's always taxes and fees you still have to pay, especially for flights. 12,000 points plus $400 in tax and fees is typical for a cheap points ticket on economy to London using British Airways and Virgin as examples. Using one cent to the point, it's marginally cheaper than booking with cash. So the 50,000 points plus $200 in taxes and fees if flying to Paris or Amsterdam on KLM also isn't as great of a deal either (all assuming you use cash back as the alternative use for points).

But points can get you good deals on hotels.

OP, I have always traveled even when a broke grad student. I make a good income now but I still travel frugally. It's easy to travel cheaply in Europe while still having a good trip. The cost of living is so high in the US that a two week in Europe is partially offset by savings on consumption in the US during those two weeks. Most people traveling internationally are paying for it out of income, not family money or whatever. It’s a blend of salary and budgets. To be in the top 10% of wage earners in the US you need a salary of around $165k, and anyone making $100k+ can make an international trip happen, so assume at least 20% of Americans can afford to travel overseas. That is a lot of people.

Last but not least, flights have never been as cheap as they are now. I can buy round trip tickets to Europe slightly off season for $550 if booking far enough in advance. That is what we were paying for tickets to London 30 years ago!

I just booked round trip business from the US to New Zealand/Australia and the taxes were $75 per per person per leg, so $300 total. Cash value was ~$6500 a ticket. No one is using CPP on economy tickets.

And how many points was it? You conveniently left that off. And then compare the points + fees with the cost of an economy ticket, as that is the starting point for most people.

I'm glancing at the points calculators, business tickets to Europe typically have tax/fees starting at 500 each way. On top of 150k points. One airline seems to buck the trend and that is United, with much lower fees both economy and business, but much higher points required too. So it's a wash. Because if you're being honest, what you're probably doing is paying the cost of an economy ticket to fly business.

You can get better deals if booking much further out, 12 months, instead of six or so, but it does mean significant commitment long in advance.

It was 166k each round trip. No one is paying $400 in taxes and fees to flying to Europe unless you’re flying business with Flying Blue. Book a flight through a partner that doesn’t pass along fuel charges. I’ve never paid more than ~$70 per person per leg to fly business Europe.

I am looking at reward calculators. Virgin round trip to London from DC in March is 12k points plus $440. For economy. Upper class is well over a thousand. FlyBlue is over $600 for Amsterdam or Paris in business plus 300k+ points.

United is 305k points round trip plus $384 in business. For economy it is 71k points plus $214.

Virgin and Flying Blue pass along fuel surcharges. Here are a bunch of random upcoming business class flights I just found. DCA-JFK-LHR on AA for 70k+$5.60. IAD to DUB on Aer Lingus Via Alaska for 45k+$19. IAD to MUC On Lufthansa via Air Canada for 70k+$56. Maybe if you spent less time being smug and more time learning the hobby you'd understand how wrong you are.

You are quite hostile and rude. I looked at the reward booking options across multiple airlines and still can't find these amazing flight deals. You mentioned AA, and random midweek dates in March is still showing me 115k points plus $1,889 for business class. Next July is 410k points though taxes and fees is only $427. You didn't tell us the dates you're using so I'm guessing those are a year out?

I have spent hours plotting and strategizing these possible flights and am just not seeing these fabulous deals.

NP and I find AA miles really hard to use, especially for international travel and with multiple people. I inadvertently let my last 40k AAdvantage miles expire from inactivity and don't have the energy to call to try to find some way to earn them back, it just doesn't seem worth it. IIRC you can sometimes have better success calling them to book because not all of the eligible partner airlines are available for online booking, unless that's changed.

In general international business travel is a hard way to use points IME. It’s the goal for most people but I guess that’s why it’s so hard - demand has gotten a lot higher and most flights only have 6-8 business seats that release at the “saver” points price.

I do love AA for domestic points though. We can fly to AZ or CA for 7500-10k points each way. We’ve flown to see family in VT for 5500 points each way. I keep trying to use AA points for the Caribbean but unless you want crazy bad layovers the points prices are very high.

I agree, but so many posters are claiming on here that that is how they are able to travel so much internationally, by using points.

I have used points to travel internationally in J/F at least once a year every single year since 2014. It might be difficult for some people but it isn’t for everyone.

During peak school break periods with 4 or more seats? I highly doubt it. If it’s true, then either share how you do it, or keep it to yourself if you aren’t willing to share.

Not that PP, but we have flown business 4 times to Europe using miles in summer in the last 10 years, with a family of 4. Use credit card bonuses. We have gone business outbound on the overnight, and economy on the daytime returns.

1. First one was on American, it was 110k/person originally, and then 4 days before departure, savers for 58k/person opened up on the same flights, had to pay around $300 to change, but saved 200k miles.

2. Second one was on American, in November of the year before they opened up a massive amount of business saver inventory for the upcoming summer for about 2 days. Booked an okay itinerary, and then a few months later got an itinerary change and moved to a better itinerary- later departure to maximize sleep.

3. Third one was in summer 2022, booked 9 months before, when travel was still pretty iffy, young kids hadn't had shots yet, you still needed to test negative to board a flight back to the US. Flew Virgin to London, booked through Air France (lower fees) for 60k+$200/person, there was a transfer bonus from Amex so it was only 50k Amex points per person. This was a matter of good timing, got lucky that demand was still pretty low in late 2021, so there was good availability. By June 2022 they removed the testing requirement so that made things a lot easier for the trip.

4. Last one was booked at schedule open, a full 11.5 months in advance, Air France but cost 90k/person+ $200. Usually best you can get on AF is 60k one way for business, but that's really hard to find, and I knew 90k was good and probably wasn't gonna get any better. I kept checking later and it never went below 130k/person.

Those are all one way mileage costs, we got econ awards back for usually around 30k/person.

It's getting harder every year, and definitely takes work and knowing how it all works.

You did well to do those flights in the last 10 years, but unfortunately that wouldn’t be possible going forward. Point inflation has been terrible.

Actually, I think these rates aren't even particularly low, assuming they are one way. AF still has 60K business class availability. 90K is high for me, to Europe, and 110K is way high. It's challenging to find 4 seats together, yes. But the rates this poster referenced are neither low nor unusual. But good job finding blocks of 4!! That's very good!!

What are your tips for using points on Air France? Do you book through Air France or through a partner airline? Which credit cards work best to accumulate points? Are there particular destinations that are good value and have good availability? So many questions!

My #1 tip for booking AF with points is staying flexible. When you log in and search for award tickets, leave the date field open. This will open a monthly calendar view, and you will see pricing on every day of that month with low saver rates marked in green. You can click through the entire year to see the dates far out. Virgin has an award seat checker that likewise shows pricing a year out every month. There are a bunch of tools like these but obviously you have to like doing it. Some people don't!

I find Amex to be the most generous with points offers if you can stomach their annual fees and meet the spend. Right now there is a targeted offer for a business gold amex for 200,000 points with a 15K spend in 3 months. I can't spend that much that quickly so will have to let that go, tearfully.

Chase has the same partner airlines as Amex, much lower bonuses, but it has a crown jewel Amex doesn't: Hyatt, with its ridiculously low point rates. Still good to get a bunch of Chase cards, just space out your Inks six months or so apart, they've been getting stingy.

Shop on Rakuten and opt to receive your cashback in Amex points. They pay out on a quarterly basis and for instance, in November I will get 45K points I accumulated just from regular shopping (watch for 10X and 15X days).

If I transfer Chase points now, they have a 30% bonus for Air France and I would have 240k points. What are good destinations in Europe for AF? Do they all involve connections?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone mentioning points always neglect that there's always taxes and fees you still have to pay, especially for flights. 12,000 points plus $400 in tax and fees is typical for a cheap points ticket on economy to London using British Airways and Virgin as examples. Using one cent to the point, it's marginally cheaper than booking with cash. So the 50,000 points plus $200 in taxes and fees if flying to Paris or Amsterdam on KLM also isn't as great of a deal either (all assuming you use cash back as the alternative use for points).

But points can get you good deals on hotels.

OP, I have always traveled even when a broke grad student. I make a good income now but I still travel frugally. It's easy to travel cheaply in Europe while still having a good trip. The cost of living is so high in the US that a two week in Europe is partially offset by savings on consumption in the US during those two weeks. Most people traveling internationally are paying for it out of income, not family money or whatever. It’s a blend of salary and budgets. To be in the top 10% of wage earners in the US you need a salary of around $165k, and anyone making $100k+ can make an international trip happen, so assume at least 20% of Americans can afford to travel overseas. That is a lot of people.

Last but not least, flights have never been as cheap as they are now. I can buy round trip tickets to Europe slightly off season for $550 if booking far enough in advance. That is what we were paying for tickets to London 30 years ago!

I just booked round trip business from the US to New Zealand/Australia and the taxes were $75 per per person per leg, so $300 total. Cash value was ~$6500 a ticket. No one is using CPP on economy tickets.

And how many points was it? You conveniently left that off. And then compare the points + fees with the cost of an economy ticket, as that is the starting point for most people.

I'm glancing at the points calculators, business tickets to Europe typically have tax/fees starting at 500 each way. On top of 150k points. One airline seems to buck the trend and that is United, with much lower fees both economy and business, but much higher points required too. So it's a wash. Because if you're being honest, what you're probably doing is paying the cost of an economy ticket to fly business.

You can get better deals if booking much further out, 12 months, instead of six or so, but it does mean significant commitment long in advance.

It was 166k each round trip. No one is paying $400 in taxes and fees to flying to Europe unless you’re flying business with Flying Blue. Book a flight through a partner that doesn’t pass along fuel charges. I’ve never paid more than ~$70 per person per leg to fly business Europe.

I am looking at reward calculators. Virgin round trip to London from DC in March is 12k points plus $440. For economy. Upper class is well over a thousand. FlyBlue is over $600 for Amsterdam or Paris in business plus 300k+ points.

United is 305k points round trip plus $384 in business. For economy it is 71k points plus $214.

Virgin and Flying Blue pass along fuel surcharges. Here are a bunch of random upcoming business class flights I just found. DCA-JFK-LHR on AA for 70k+$5.60. IAD to DUB on Aer Lingus Via Alaska for 45k+$19. IAD to MUC On Lufthansa via Air Canada for 70k+$56. Maybe if you spent less time being smug and more time learning the hobby you'd understand how wrong you are.

You are quite hostile and rude. I looked at the reward booking options across multiple airlines and still can't find these amazing flight deals. You mentioned AA, and random midweek dates in March is still showing me 115k points plus $1,889 for business class. Next July is 410k points though taxes and fees is only $427. You didn't tell us the dates you're using so I'm guessing those are a year out?

I have spent hours plotting and strategizing these possible flights and am just not seeing these fabulous deals.

NP and I find AA miles really hard to use, especially for international travel and with multiple people. I inadvertently let my last 40k AAdvantage miles expire from inactivity and don't have the energy to call to try to find some way to earn them back, it just doesn't seem worth it. IIRC you can sometimes have better success calling them to book because not all of the eligible partner airlines are available for online booking, unless that's changed.

In general international business travel is a hard way to use points IME. It’s the goal for most people but I guess that’s why it’s so hard - demand has gotten a lot higher and most flights only have 6-8 business seats that release at the “saver” points price.

I do love AA for domestic points though. We can fly to AZ or CA for 7500-10k points each way. We’ve flown to see family in VT for 5500 points each way. I keep trying to use AA points for the Caribbean but unless you want crazy bad layovers the points prices are very high.

I agree, but so many posters are claiming on here that that is how they are able to travel so much internationally, by using points.

I have used points to travel internationally in J/F at least once a year every single year since 2014. It might be difficult for some people but it isn’t for everyone.

During peak school break periods with 4 or more seats? I highly doubt it. If it’s true, then either share how you do it, or keep it to yourself if you aren’t willing to share.

Not that PP, but we have flown business 4 times to Europe using miles in summer in the last 10 years, with a family of 4. Use credit card bonuses. We have gone business outbound on the overnight, and economy on the daytime returns.

1. First one was on American, it was 110k/person originally, and then 4 days before departure, savers for 58k/person opened up on the same flights, had to pay around $300 to change, but saved 200k miles.

2. Second one was on American, in November of the year before they opened up a massive amount of business saver inventory for the upcoming summer for about 2 days. Booked an okay itinerary, and then a few months later got an itinerary change and moved to a better itinerary- later departure to maximize sleep.

3. Third one was in summer 2022, booked 9 months before, when travel was still pretty iffy, young kids hadn't had shots yet, you still needed to test negative to board a flight back to the US. Flew Virgin to London, booked through Air France (lower fees) for 60k+$200/person, there was a transfer bonus from Amex so it was only 50k Amex points per person. This was a matter of good timing, got lucky that demand was still pretty low in late 2021, so there was good availability. By June 2022 they removed the testing requirement so that made things a lot easier for the trip.

4. Last one was booked at schedule open, a full 11.5 months in advance, Air France but cost 90k/person+ $200. Usually best you can get on AF is 60k one way for business, but that's really hard to find, and I knew 90k was good and probably wasn't gonna get any better. I kept checking later and it never went below 130k/person.

Those are all one way mileage costs, we got econ awards back for usually around 30k/person.

It's getting harder every year, and definitely takes work and knowing how it all works.

You did well to do those flights in the last 10 years, but unfortunately that wouldn’t be possible going forward. Point inflation has been terrible.

Actually, I think these rates aren't even particularly low, assuming they are one way. AF still has 60K business class availability. 90K is high for me, to Europe, and 110K is way high. It's challenging to find 4 seats together, yes. But the rates this poster referenced are neither low nor unusual. But good job finding blocks of 4!! That's very good!!

What are your tips for using points on Air France? Do you book through Air France or through a partner airline? Which credit cards work best to accumulate points? Are there particular destinations that are good value and have good availability? So many questions!

My #1 tip for booking AF with points is staying flexible. When you log in and search for award tickets, leave the date field open. This will open a monthly calendar view, and you will see pricing on every day of that month with low saver rates marked in green. You can click through the entire year to see the dates far out. Virgin has an award seat checker that likewise shows pricing a year out every month. There are a bunch of tools like these but obviously you have to like doing it. Some people don't!

I find Amex to be the most generous with points offers if you can stomach their annual fees and meet the spend. Right now there is a targeted offer for a business gold amex for 200,000 points with a 15K spend in 3 months. I can't spend that much that quickly so will have to let that go, tearfully.

Chase has the same partner airlines as Amex, much lower bonuses, but it has a crown jewel Amex doesn't: Hyatt, with its ridiculously low point rates. Still good to get a bunch of Chase cards, just space out your Inks six months or so apart, they've been getting stingy.

Shop on Rakuten and opt to receive your cashback in Amex points. They pay out on a quarterly basis and for instance, in November I will get 45K points I accumulated just from regular shopping (watch for 10X and 15X days).

If I transfer Chase points now, they have a 30% bonus for Air France and I would have 240k points. What are good destinations in Europe for AF? Do they all involve connections?

Well yes every Air France flight goes through Paris, by definition since that's their hub. So if you are going somewhere other than Paris you will have to connect. You can also add a train connection at CDG, to a number of French cities as well as Brussels.

Air France has a very extensive network in Europe, they fly to pretty much every airport of any substantive size from Paris.

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Anonymous wrote:Everyone mentioning points always neglect that there's always taxes and fees you still have to pay, especially for flights. 12,000 points plus $400 in tax and fees is typical for a cheap points ticket on economy to London using British Airways and Virgin as examples. Using one cent to the point, it's marginally cheaper than booking with cash. So the 50,000 points plus $200 in taxes and fees if flying to Paris or Amsterdam on KLM also isn't as great of a deal either (all assuming you use cash back as the alternative use for points).

But points can get you good deals on hotels.

OP, I have always traveled even when a broke grad student. I make a good income now but I still travel frugally. It's easy to travel cheaply in Europe while still having a good trip. The cost of living is so high in the US that a two week in Europe is partially offset by savings on consumption in the US during those two weeks. Most people traveling internationally are paying for it out of income, not family money or whatever. It’s a blend of salary and budgets. To be in the top 10% of wage earners in the US you need a salary of around $165k, and anyone making $100k+ can make an international trip happen, so assume at least 20% of Americans can afford to travel overseas. That is a lot of people.

Last but not least, flights have never been as cheap as they are now. I can buy round trip tickets to Europe slightly off season for $550 if booking far enough in advance. That is what we were paying for tickets to London 30 years ago!

I just booked round trip business from the US to New Zealand/Australia and the taxes were $75 per per person per leg, so $300 total. Cash value was ~$6500 a ticket. No one is using CPP on economy tickets.

And how many points was it? You conveniently left that off. And then compare the points + fees with the cost of an economy ticket, as that is the starting point for most people.

I'm glancing at the points calculators, business tickets to Europe typically have tax/fees starting at 500 each way. On top of 150k points. One airline seems to buck the trend and that is United, with much lower fees both economy and business, but much higher points required too. So it's a wash. Because if you're being honest, what you're probably doing is paying the cost of an economy ticket to fly business.

You can get better deals if booking much further out, 12 months, instead of six or so, but it does mean significant commitment long in advance.

It was 166k each round trip. No one is paying $400 in taxes and fees to flying to Europe unless you’re flying business with Flying Blue. Book a flight through a partner that doesn’t pass along fuel charges. I’ve never paid more than ~$70 per person per leg to fly business Europe.

I am looking at reward calculators. Virgin round trip to London from DC in March is 12k points plus $440. For economy. Upper class is well over a thousand. FlyBlue is over $600 for Amsterdam or Paris in business plus 300k+ points.

United is 305k points round trip plus $384 in business. For economy it is 71k points plus $214.

Virgin and Flying Blue pass along fuel surcharges. Here are a bunch of random upcoming business class flights I just found. DCA-JFK-LHR on AA for 70k+$5.60. IAD to DUB on Aer Lingus Via Alaska for 45k+$19. IAD to MUC On Lufthansa via Air Canada for 70k+$56. Maybe if you spent less time being smug and more time learning the hobby you'd understand how wrong you are.

You are quite hostile and rude. I looked at the reward booking options across multiple airlines and still can't find these amazing flight deals. You mentioned AA, and random midweek dates in March is still showing me 115k points plus $1,889 for business class. Next July is 410k points though taxes and fees is only $427. You didn't tell us the dates you're using so I'm guessing those are a year out?

I have spent hours plotting and strategizing these possible flights and am just not seeing these fabulous deals.

NP and I find AA miles really hard to use, especially for international travel and with multiple people. I inadvertently let my last 40k AAdvantage miles expire from inactivity and don't have the energy to call to try to find some way to earn them back, it just doesn't seem worth it. IIRC you can sometimes have better success calling them to book because not all of the eligible partner airlines are available for online booking, unless that's changed.

In general international business travel is a hard way to use points IME. It’s the goal for most people but I guess that’s why it’s so hard - demand has gotten a lot higher and most flights only have 6-8 business seats that release at the “saver” points price.

I do love AA for domestic points though. We can fly to AZ or CA for 7500-10k points each way. We’ve flown to see family in VT for 5500 points each way. I keep trying to use AA points for the Caribbean but unless you want crazy bad layovers the points prices are very high.

I agree, but so many posters are claiming on here that that is how they are able to travel so much internationally, by using points.

I have used points to travel internationally in J/F at least once a year every single year since 2014. It might be difficult for some people but it isn’t for everyone.

During peak school break periods with 4 or more seats? I highly doubt it. If it’s true, then either share how you do it, or keep it to yourself if you aren’t willing to share.

Not that PP, but we have flown business 4 times to Europe using miles in summer in the last 10 years, with a family of 4. Use credit card bonuses. We have gone business outbound on the overnight, and economy on the daytime returns.

1. First one was on American, it was 110k/person originally, and then 4 days before departure, savers for 58k/person opened up on the same flights, had to pay around $300 to change, but saved 200k miles.

2. Second one was on American, in November of the year before they opened up a massive amount of business saver inventory for the upcoming summer for about 2 days. Booked an okay itinerary, and then a few months later got an itinerary change and moved to a better itinerary- later departure to maximize sleep.

3. Third one was in summer 2022, booked 9 months before, when travel was still pretty iffy, young kids hadn't had shots yet, you still needed to test negative to board a flight back to the US. Flew Virgin to London, booked through Air France (lower fees) for 60k+$200/person, there was a transfer bonus from Amex so it was only 50k Amex points per person. This was a matter of good timing, got lucky that demand was still pretty low in late 2021, so there was good availability. By June 2022 they removed the testing requirement so that made things a lot easier for the trip.

4. Last one was booked at schedule open, a full 11.5 months in advance, Air France but cost 90k/person+ $200. Usually best you can get on AF is 60k one way for business, but that's really hard to find, and I knew 90k was good and probably wasn't gonna get any better. I kept checking later and it never went below 130k/person.

Those are all one way mileage costs, we got econ awards back for usually around 30k/person.

It's getting harder every year, and definitely takes work and knowing how it all works.

You did well to do those flights in the last 10 years, but unfortunately that wouldn’t be possible going forward. Point inflation has been terrible.

Actually, I think these rates aren't even particularly low, assuming they are one way. AF still has 60K business class availability. 90K is high for me, to Europe, and 110K is way high. It's challenging to find 4 seats together, yes. But the rates this poster referenced are neither low nor unusual. But good job finding blocks of 4!! That's very good!!

What are your tips for using points on Air France? Do you book through Air France or through a partner airline? Which credit cards work best to accumulate points? Are there particular destinations that are good value and have good availability? So many questions!

My #1 tip for booking AF with points is staying flexible. When you log in and search for award tickets, leave the date field open. This will open a monthly calendar view, and you will see pricing on every day of that month with low saver rates marked in green. You can click through the entire year to see the dates far out. Virgin has an award seat checker that likewise shows pricing a year out every month. There are a bunch of tools like these but obviously you have to like doing it. Some people don't!

I find Amex to be the most generous with points offers if you can stomach their annual fees and meet the spend. Right now there is a targeted offer for a business gold amex for 200,000 points with a 15K spend in 3 months. I can't spend that much that quickly so will have to let that go, tearfully.

Chase has the same partner airlines as Amex, much lower bonuses, but it has a crown jewel Amex doesn't: Hyatt, with its ridiculously low point rates. Still good to get a bunch of Chase cards, just space out your Inks six months or so apart, they've been getting stingy.

Shop on Rakuten and opt to receive your cashback in Amex points. They pay out on a quarterly basis and for instance, in November I will get 45K points I accumulated just from regular shopping (watch for 10X and 15X days).

This one knows what's up. Good examples of the pretty steep learning curve in figuring out how to maximize value.

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Anonymous wrote:I have mastered the points game. In the last three years and through summer 2026, I have taken myself and two kids to Amsterdam, London, Turkey, Morocco, Scandinavia, Colombia, Italy and Peru. Free flights everywhere, free hotels some places. It turned out well worth it for my family.

So am I correct in thinking that three people for eight return trips at 30-40k points each way means 1.4-1.9 million points in three years? How did you accumulate those?

Others have answered, but for most it's churning credit card bonuses. Amex has 250k bonuses now for one card. Do 3 of those a year and you are at 2
2 million in 3 years.