Are We Crazy for Questioning a $250k US Degree and looking abroad?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wanted to add one final commentary to this thread. Nobody here is claiming that going abroad for college is inherently "better" than staying in the US. This isn't a 'yellow is better than green' debate. It is simply a personal decision each family makes, often driven by a student's interest in a life beyond their familiar comforts.

The narrative that this is a backup plan for kids who "didn't get in" to a T25 school may be true for some, but it's certainly not the rule.

In our family, all three of our children were competitive athletes, had 1500+ SATs, high GPAs, and very high IB scores, yet they chose not to apply to a single school in the US.

They each had their own reasons for wanting to go away, and there is nothing wrong with that. As a parent, my role is to support my kids in the decisions they've earned through their hard work, as long as those decisions are sound.

The benefits aren't just theoretical. The world is too small to pretend that the foundation for a truly global worldview can be built solely from the perspective we gain close to home.
For a student with any inclination toward an international career, this is not the only path, but it is an incredible path. The worldwide network of contacts my kids have built is amazing.

In fact, after working in the US for three years, one of our children was just offered a major promotion to lead a division for his American firm back in the EU and he is just 26.

With all its faults, the US university system is still the best in the world. But that doesn't mean there aren't outstanding options elsewhere for those who want to explore them.

One path isn't better than the other. It just takes a different kind of kid to want the less-traveled one. And that is perfectly okay.

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wanted to add one final commentary to this thread. Nobody here is claiming that going abroad for college is inherently "better" than staying in the US. This isn't a 'yellow is better than green' debate. It is simply a personal decision each family makes, often driven by a student's interest in a life beyond their familiar comforts.

The narrative that this is a backup plan for kids who "didn't get in" to a T25 school may be true for some, but it's certainly not the rule.

In our family, all three of our children were competitive athletes, had 1500+ SATs, high GPAs, and very high IB scores, yet they chose not to apply to a single school in the US.

They each had their own reasons for wanting to go away, and there is nothing wrong with that. As a parent, my role is to support my kids in the decisions they've earned through their hard work, as long as those decisions are sound.

The benefits aren't just theoretical. The world is too small to pretend that the foundation for a truly global worldview can be built solely from the perspective we gain close to home.
For a student with any inclination toward an international career, this is not the only path, but it is an incredible path. The worldwide network of contacts my kids have built is amazing.

In fact, after working in the US for three years, one of our children was just offered a major promotion to lead a division for his American firm back in the EU and he is just 26.

With all its faults, the US university system is still the best in the world. But that doesn't mean there aren't outstanding options elsewhere for those who want to explore them.

One path isn't better than the other. It just takes a different kind of kid to want the less-traveled one. And that is perfectly okay.

Thank you. So there are sane people at DCUM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wanted to add one final commentary to this thread. Nobody here is claiming that going abroad for college is inherently "better" than staying in the US. This isn't a 'yellow is better than green' debate. It is simply a personal decision each family makes, often driven by a student's interest in a life beyond their familiar comforts.

The narrative that this is a backup plan for kids who "didn't get in" to a T25 school may be true for some, but it's certainly not the rule.

One path isn't better than the other. It just takes a different kind of kid to want the less-traveled one. And that is perfectly okay.

Very well said.

OP, I know you are trying to convince yourself. But at the end of the day, you dont have to. If money is not the primary motivation (and it shouldn’t be) let your kids decide their future.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a degree from a solid British university that you’ve never heard of. I’ve had no problems getting jobs in the US. And as a hiring manager I care much more about experience and presentation of a candidate than what college an applicant attended. The don’t even remember the colleges any of the people I’ve hired attended.

Agree. As a hiring manager, I did not care about the school a candidate attended. If I had wanted to know more, I could have searched the internet. However, I never did that.

Another mom “hiring manager” here in the Bay Area for a well known tech firm. I apologize, but yes, we do care. we dont rank schools, but we do select where we are going to recruit from. It is a select group of about 20-25 schools in the US. WE do the same thing in Canada, UK and the EU. You might not like it, but this is how the world works in the upper echelons of corporate world. We have hired kids from the t15 UK schools mentioned in the other DCUM thread ahead of kids at t25-t50 in the US.

And yes, we know who ETH, TUM, Delft, KU Leuven, KTM is and all of the top UK unis discussed here. We have hired from all of them. And the vast majority of times, these are American kids coming back home.

Sure, while regional employers and others dont care, there is still a big segment of the market that does.

So after someone has a couple of years experience you care where they went to college and it’s a more important factor than their job experience? Because I don’t believe that for one second.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We’ve been over this so many times. It’s clear what’s happening. Your kids can’t get into the Ivies or other top privates and you’re too embarrassed to say they’re going elsewhere in the USA, so you send them abroad and having made that decision you now insist that their educations are better, they’re having more fun, their job prospects are better etc.

What’s really going on is that instead of going to college with the unwashed American masses they’re doing it with the unwashed European ones for less money.


Your kids are going to school with millions of other kids. They’re not going to Harvard.

What you’ve chosen to do is fine. Great. You do you. But it doesn’t make you special, it doesn’t make your kids special, and it certainly provides no license to tear down kids who aren’t doing the same thing. I guarantee you most kids at most everywhere are “having fun.“

I'm always fascinated by the confidence with which some people psychoanalyze the complex financial and educational decisions of hundreds of families they've never met.

The central premise that this is a 'backup plan' for students who can't get into top US schools is a tired, easily disproven myth. As I and many others here have shared, DD turned down two Ivies to study in the UK. Her story isn’t unique. This is not about rejection; it's about a different set of priorities with a desire for real-world global experience, not just one stamped with a familiar US ranking.

Frankly, the idea that all the world's 'top students' only clamor for US schools is an incredibly US-centric view of the world. Brilliant students everywhere have different goals and different definitions of 'the best.'

Ultimately, praising one path isn't an attack on another, and it certainly isn't a license to tear down the choices of others.

Anyway, for those of us who are actually interested in the productive conversation the OP started, let’s ignore these trolls.

Just because you say it anonymously doesn’t make it true. Very very few American families are turning down Ivy League schools to study in Europe. If your kids are, you are a real exception to the rule.

And that you are seriously asserting that the USA isn’t far and away the preferred destination for foreign students means that you have no credibility.

You clearly do not possess the ability to engage with what is actually written.

To be clear for everyone else following along:

1) My point was never that the US isn't a popular destination. My point was that the world's 'brilliant students' have many goals, and to assume they all prefer the US is a US-centric view. These are two very different statements.

2) You are arguing against a point nobody made, which is the definition of a strawman argument.

This is no longer a productive discussion. I won't be engaging with you further. I'm going back to the actual topic

It’s not only a “popular” destination. It’s THE MOST POPULAR and by a long shot. We import way more students than we export and with good reason. That you refuse to concede that is very telling.

Show me the data. And put any conclusions in context of the size and population of the relevant countries. Because what you are saying sounds like typical American insular assumptions that they are the best. I’m from Europe and we absolutely hands down do not ever, under any circumstances believe that the US is superior to so other world renowned institutions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a degree from a solid British university that you’ve never heard of. I’ve had no problems getting jobs in the US. And as a hiring manager I care much more about experience and presentation of a candidate than what college an applicant attended. The don’t even remember the colleges any of the people I’ve hired attended.

Agree. As a hiring manager, I did not care about the school a candidate attended. If I had wanted to know more, I could have searched the internet. However, I never did that.

Another mom “hiring manager” here in the Bay Area for a well known tech firm. I apologize, but yes, we do care. we dont rank schools, but we do select where we are going to recruit from. It is a select group of about 20-25 schools in the US. WE do the same thing in Canada, UK and the EU. You might not like it, but this is how the world works in the upper echelons of corporate world. We have hired kids from the t15 UK schools mentioned in the other DCUM thread ahead of kids at t25-t50 in the US.

And yes, we know who ETH, TUM, Delft, KU Leuven, KTM is and all of the top UK unis discussed here. We have hired from all of them. And the vast majority of times, these are American kids coming back home.

Sure, while regional employers and others dont care, there is still a big segment of the market that does.

So after someone has a couple of years experience you care where they went to college and it’s a more important factor than their job experience? Because I don’t believe that for one second.

I’m not the PP. But clearly that person was talking about hiring at colleges and graduates right out of school. Not for experienced professionals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We’ve been over this so many times. It’s clear what’s happening. Your kids can’t get into the Ivies or other top privates and you’re too embarrassed to say they’re going elsewhere in the USA, so you send them abroad and having made that decision you now insist that their educations are better, they’re having more fun, their job prospects are better etc.

What’s really going on is that instead of going to college with the unwashed American masses they’re doing it with the unwashed European ones for less money.


Your kids are going to school with millions of other kids. They’re not going to Harvard.

What you’ve chosen to do is fine. Great. You do you. But it doesn’t make you special, it doesn’t make your kids special, and it certainly provides no license to tear down kids who aren’t doing the same thing. I guarantee you most kids at most everywhere are “having fun.“

I'm always fascinated by the confidence with which some people psychoanalyze the complex financial and educational decisions of hundreds of families they've never met.

The central premise that this is a 'backup plan' for students who can't get into top US schools is a tired, easily disproven myth. As I and many others here have shared, DD turned down two Ivies to study in the UK. Her story isn’t unique. This is not about rejection; it's about a different set of priorities with a desire for real-world global experience, not just one stamped with a familiar US ranking.

Frankly, the idea that all the world's 'top students' only clamor for US schools is an incredibly US-centric view of the world. Brilliant students everywhere have different goals and different definitions of 'the best.'

Ultimately, praising one path isn't an attack on another, and it certainly isn't a license to tear down the choices of others.

Anyway, for those of us who are actually interested in the productive conversation the OP started, let’s ignore these trolls.

Just because you say it anonymously doesn’t make it true. Very very few American families are turning down Ivy League schools to study in Europe. If your kids are, you are a real exception to the rule.

And that you are seriously asserting that the USA isn’t far and away the preferred destination for foreign students means that you have no credibility.

You clearly do not possess the ability to engage with what is actually written.

To be clear for everyone else following along:

1) My point was never that the US isn't a popular destination. My point was that the world's 'brilliant students' have many goals, and to assume they all prefer the US is a US-centric view. These are two very different statements.

2) You are arguing against a point nobody made, which is the definition of a strawman argument.

This is no longer a productive discussion. I won't be engaging with you further. I'm going back to the actual topic

It’s not only a “popular” destination. It’s THE MOST POPULAR and by a long shot. We import way more students than we export and with good reason. That you refuse to concede that is very telling.

Show me the data. And put any conclusions in context of the size and population of the relevant countries. Because what you are saying sounds like typical American insular assumptions that they are the best. I’m from Europe and we absolutely hands down do not ever, under any circumstances believe that the US is superior to so other world renowned institutions.

Don’t wind up the troll. This person has been bothering everyone in this thread that has a different view.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The kids from other countries clamor to come to the USA and attend colleges there. There is a reason. The universities and colleges are top-rate in the USA. This isn’t about price.

Not at the undergraduate level.

At the undergraduate level, we get the kids that can't get into the best colleges and universities in their home country but they have enough money to get into a good US school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The kids from other countries clamor to come to the USA and attend colleges there. There is a reason. The universities and colleges are top-rate in the USA. This isn’t about price.

Not at the undergraduate level.

At the undergraduate level, we get the kids that can't get into the best colleges and universities in their home country but they have enough money to get into a good US school.

Trying not to wade into this battle...but this comment doesn't make any sense. The 11,000 UK students studying in the US could absolutely get into one of the top 20 UK schools, since those schools are public and generally have high acceptance rates.

The same with any 1st world college student.

I think you actually find a decent number of foreign athletes for a number of different sports because there is no college sports outside the US, and then you do have a country like India where the IITs have less than 1% acceptance rates, and you also have many students trying to go to college in the US in order to secure an H1 visa.

[Anonymous]

I’d just choose an in-state option and have your child study abroad.

The European job market isn’t strong for recent grads and I think the future is unknown and it’s a gamble that your child will be able to get an entry level job in the US, or later find a job from abroad.

There are a lot of labor market protections in European countries that can be terrific once you have a good job, but make it more difficult to find one. Also salaries are much, much lower.

I wouldn’t send a child overseas unless there was a high probability it’s where they want to end up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We’ve been over this so many times. It’s clear what’s happening. Your kids can’t get into the Ivies or other top privates and you’re too embarrassed to say they’re going elsewhere in the USA, so you send them abroad and having made that decision you now insist that their educations are better, they’re having more fun, their job prospects are better etc.

What’s really going on is that instead of going to college with the unwashed American masses they’re doing it with the unwashed European ones for less money.


Your kids are going to school with millions of other kids. They’re not going to Harvard.

What you’ve chosen to do is fine. Great. You do you. But it doesn’t make you special, it doesn’t make your kids special, and it certainly provides no license to tear down kids who aren’t doing the same thing. I guarantee you most kids at most everywhere are “having fun.“

I'm always fascinated by the confidence with which some people psychoanalyze the complex financial and educational decisions of hundreds of families they've never met.

The central premise that this is a 'backup plan' for students who can't get into top US schools is a tired, easily disproven myth. As I and many others here have shared, DD turned down two Ivies to study in the UK. Her story isn’t unique. This is not about rejection; it's about a different set of priorities with a desire for real-world global experience, not just one stamped with a familiar US ranking.

Frankly, the idea that all the world's 'top students' only clamor for US schools is an incredibly US-centric view of the world. Brilliant students everywhere have different goals and different definitions of 'the best.'

Ultimately, praising one path isn't an attack on another, and it certainly isn't a license to tear down the choices of others.

Anyway, for those of us who are actually interested in the productive conversation the OP started, let’s ignore these trolls.

Just because you say it anonymously doesn’t make it true. Very very few American families are turning down Ivy League schools to study in Europe. If your kids are, you are a real exception to the rule.

And that you are seriously asserting that the USA isn’t far and away the preferred destination for foreign students means that you have no credibility.

You clearly do not possess the ability to engage with what is actually written.

To be clear for everyone else following along:

1) My point was never that the US isn't a popular destination. My point was that the world's 'brilliant students' have many goals, and to assume they all prefer the US is a US-centric view. These are two very different statements.

2) You are arguing against a point nobody made, which is the definition of a strawman argument.

This is no longer a productive discussion. I won't be engaging with you further. I'm going back to the actual topic

It’s not only a “popular” destination. It’s THE MOST POPULAR and by a long shot. We import way more students than we export and with good reason. That you refuse to concede that is very telling.

Show me the data. And put any conclusions in context of the size and population of the relevant countries. Because what you are saying sounds like typical American insular assumptions that they are the best. I’m from Europe and we absolutely hands down do not ever, under any circumstances believe that the US is superior to so other world renowned institutions.

The U.S. attracts the most international students of all nations, hosting an all-time high of more than 1.1 million international students during the 2023-2024 academic year, an all-time high since COVID. Key factors for this interest include the country's reputation for renowned high-education programs, with about half ot he world's top universities located there, along with advanced technology and strong research capabilities.

India, China, and South Korea are among the top countries from which students come to study in the U.S. This is all googleable

[Anonymous]

My kid is Swiss. He could not get in ETH, therefore he applied to us schools and is now at Stanford. ETH was his number 1 choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wanted to add one final commentary to this thread. Nobody here is claiming that going abroad for college is inherently "better" than staying in the US. This isn't a 'yellow is better than green' debate. It is simply a personal decision each family makes, often driven by a student's interest in a life beyond their familiar comforts.

The narrative that this is a backup plan for kids who "didn't get in" to a T25 school may be true for some, but it's certainly not the rule.

In our family, all three of our children were competitive athletes, had 1500+ SATs, high GPAs, and very high IB scores, yet they chose not to apply to a single school in the US.

They each had their own reasons for wanting to go away, and there is nothing wrong with that. As a parent, my role is to support my kids in the decisions they've earned through their hard work, as long as those decisions are sound.

The benefits aren't just theoretical. The world is too small to pretend that the foundation for a truly global worldview can be built solely from the perspective we gain close to home.
For a student with any inclination toward an international career, this is not the only path, but it is an incredible path. The worldwide network of contacts my kids have built is amazing.

In fact, after working in the US for three years, one of our children was just offered a major promotion to lead a division for his American firm back in the EU and he is just 26.

With all its faults, the US university system is still the best in the world. But that doesn't mean there aren't outstanding options elsewhere for those who want to explore them.

One path isn't better than the other. It just takes a different kind of kid to want the less-traveled one. And that is perfectly okay.

Great commentary here! People keep wanting to change the subject of the conversation with irrelevant points about my daddy being better than yours. So irrelevant. This is not about better. It is better for YOU…..big difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid is Swiss. He could not get in ETH, therefore he applied to us schools and is now at Stanford. ETH was his number 1 choice.

Let me get this straight...he couldn't get acceptance to a 27% acceptance rate school...and for some reason he was not interested in Cambridge or Oxford or other strong STEM schools...but he was accepted to Stanford.

You do have to speak German.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We’ve been over this so many times. It’s clear what’s happening. Your kids can’t get into the Ivies or other top privates and you’re too embarrassed to say they’re going elsewhere in the USA, so you send them abroad and having made that decision you now insist that their educations are better, they’re having more fun, their job prospects are better etc.

What’s really going on is that instead of going to college with the unwashed American masses they’re doing it with the unwashed European ones for less money.


Your kids are going to school with millions of other kids. They’re not going to Harvard.

What you’ve chosen to do is fine. Great. You do you. But it doesn’t make you special, it doesn’t make your kids special, and it certainly provides no license to tear down kids who aren’t doing the same thing. I guarantee you most kids at most everywhere are “having fun.“

I'm always fascinated by the confidence with which some people psychoanalyze the complex financial and educational decisions of hundreds of families they've never met.

The central premise that this is a 'backup plan' for students who can't get into top US schools is a tired, easily disproven myth. As I and many others here have shared, DD turned down two Ivies to study in the UK. Her story isn’t unique. This is not about rejection; it's about a different set of priorities with a desire for real-world global experience, not just one stamped with a familiar US ranking.

Frankly, the idea that all the world's 'top students' only clamor for US schools is an incredibly US-centric view of the world. Brilliant students everywhere have different goals and different definitions of 'the best.'

Ultimately, praising one path isn't an attack on another, and it certainly isn't a license to tear down the choices of others.

Anyway, for those of us who are actually interested in the productive conversation the OP started, let’s ignore these trolls.

Just because you say it anonymously doesn’t make it true. Very very few American families are turning down Ivy League schools to study in Europe. If your kids are, you are a real exception to the rule.

And that you are seriously asserting that the USA isn’t far and away the preferred destination for foreign students means that you have no credibility.

You clearly do not possess the ability to engage with what is actually written.

To be clear for everyone else following along:

1) My point was never that the US isn't a popular destination. My point was that the world's 'brilliant students' have many goals, and to assume they all prefer the US is a US-centric view. These are two very different statements.

2) You are arguing against a point nobody made, which is the definition of a strawman argument.

This is no longer a productive discussion. I won't be engaging with you further. I'm going back to the actual topic

It’s not only a “popular” destination. It’s THE MOST POPULAR and by a long shot. We import way more students than we export and with good reason. That you refuse to concede that is very telling.

Show me the data. And put any conclusions in context of the size and population of the relevant countries. Because what you are saying sounds like typical American insular assumptions that they are the best. I’m from Europe and we absolutely hands down do not ever, under any circumstances believe that the US is superior to so other world renowned institutions.

The U.S. attracts the most international students of all nations, hosting an all-time high of more than 1.1 million international students during the 2023-2024 academic year, an all-time high since COVID. Key factors for this interest include the country's reputation for renowned high-education programs, with about half ot he world's top universities located there, along with advanced technology and strong research capabilities.

India, China, and South Korea are among the top countries from which students come to study in the U.S. This is all googleable

I’m sure the US subtract many brilliant foreign students, but the overall numbers are not particularly impressive. Last year the US had 1.1 million international students, Canada had 1 million, Australia had 780,000, and the UK has 732,000. The US had a population 5 times larger than the UK, 8 times Canada’s and 12 times Australia’s. It’s hardly a resounding endorsement of US college education.