DC traffic cameras issued 3.3 MILLION tickets last year

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did you know there's almost no stop sign cameras west of the park? I wonder how that happens....

There's 17 speed cameras in Ward 3. In Ward 7, there's almost 60.

Listing this without listing data on accidents or fatalities isn’t that useful.
Traffic accidents, injuries, and fatalities are FAR higher in ward 7 than 3. This isn’t the racist “gotcha” that you think it is.

Actually it is.

https://www.propublica.org/article/chicagos-race-neutral-traffic-cameras-ticket-black-and-latino-drivers-the-most

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did you know there's almost no stop sign cameras west of the park? I wonder how that happens....

There's 17 speed cameras in Ward 3. In Ward 7, there's almost 60.

Listing this without listing data on accidents or fatalities isn’t that useful.
Traffic accidents, injuries, and fatalities are FAR higher in ward 7 than 3. This isn’t the racist “gotcha” that you think it is.

Where's the evidence that traffic cameras reduce accidents? DC has increasing ticketing by almost 10 times. Where's the corresponding reduction in traffic deaths?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did you know there's almost no stop sign cameras west of the park? I wonder how that happens....

Wealthiest neighborhoods in DC have little to no traffic cameras. For instance, you will never catch a traffic camera on Chain Bridge Road.

Drivers in black neighborhoods are 17 times more likely to be ticketed in DC than drivers in white neighborhoods.

OK. How many times are drivers, pedestrians, and cyclists in black neighborhoods more likely to be killed or injured by traffic violence than drivers, pedestrians, and cyclists in white neighborhoods?

You don’t know, do you?

If only you cared as much about those whose lives are shattered by reckless drivers as much as those reckless drivers who get ticketed.

It's extremely rate for anyone of any color in Washington D.C. to be killed by a speeding driver.

I knew someone who was killed in DC - on a crosswalk - by a speeding driver who had amassed thousands of dollars in unpaid fines. You can her death “rate” (sic) and advocate against policies that make our streets safer. I will call her death her preventable and advocate for policies that will prevent DC residents from being frightened, injured, maimed, and killed by reckless drivers.

The driver in this scenario is an extreme outlier. Most people in this city are perfectly safe drivers. The question is why DDOT is burying the city in 3 million tickets when the problem is a tiny number of reckless drivers. It's the traffic equivalent of stationing National Guard troops on every corner in the city because some guy somewhere stabbed someone.

Are you really so dense that you believe those 3 million tickets are uniformly distributed across the population? No, a relatively small number of extremely careless drivers get the tickets. They are outliers and that’s the point. Were their dangerous behavior being appropriately sanctioned victims like Patricia Bullinger would still be alive.

Aside from there being zero evidence that's the case, it's clear you don't drive and also that your math skills are nonexistent. I dont know what you mean by a "tiny" number of drivers but do the math. Do you think those 3.3 million tickets went to, like, 100 people? They'd have to get 90 tickets a day, every single day of the year, for the math to work. Oh you meant 500 people? Doesn't really seem "tiny" but the math is still silly. They'd have to get 18 tickets every single day. 1000 people? 1000 extremely careless drivers seems like a major problem, but I'm pretty sure there's not a single person who gets 9 tickets every single day.

The DC lab study identified 100,000 high risk drivers.

Seems a little ridiculous, no? How do so many supposedly high risk drivers produce so few traffic fatalities? Also, exactly how many drivers do you think there are in DC?

There are a lot of non-fatal accidents, roughly 40 per day that merit a police report. Plus evasive maneuvers by everyone else on foot/biking/driving. Some roads like 295 get too congested to get fatal accidents very often, even with bad driving. Additionally some people just flat out avoid certain roads at certain times a day.

Not to mention that all of us who own vehicles pay for these accidents through elevated insurance premiums. People complain about equity and cameras, but the reality is that the truly awful behavior of some drivers in DC - and the failure of the DC government to take those drivers off the road - pushes the cost of owning a legally-insured car out of the reach of many poor families.

Give me a break. The rates DC charges for tickets is nothing short of predatory. You can owe $1200 for a single traffic ticket.

You're making stuff up again. Here's the fine schedule:

18-2200.1 SPEED 11-15 OVR LIMT $100
18-2200.1 SPEED 16-20 OVR LIMT $150
18-2200.1 SPEED 21-25 OVR LIMT $200
18-2200 OVER 25 MPH CONTROLLED $400
18-2200 OVER 25 MPH NON-CONTROLLED $500

The fines can be cut in half if you qualify for SNAP benefits (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAdIRBjCS2I).

So in DC, you can do 100mph in a 25mph zone and the fine can be as little as $200. That's absurd. Try speeding in a rural county in the south and see what happens. It's going to cost you a hell of a lot more than $200, I can guarantee you.

Heck, even Virginia routinely sends drivers to jail - including one Nats outfielder and an automotive journalist - for doing over 80mph on open roads.

If you really think DC fines are "predatory", about the best thing I can say about you is that you lack context.

The fees double after 30 days, and there's a 20 percent surcharge on top of that. You can read more here:

Predatory Penalties: How Late Fees on DC Traffic Tickets Punish the Poor

https://www.dcfpi.org/all/predatory-penalties-late-fees-dc-traffic-tickets-punish-poor/

So pay your ticket. You have control over late fees.

Or don't speed in the first place. Drivers have control over that as well.

Take responsibility for your behavior! Sheesh!

Let me remind everyone how traffic laws work in DC:

12 year old driving an ATV down the middle of Connecticut Avenue during rush hour: no penalty

Moped driver blowing stop sign at 40 mph: no penalty

Motorcyclist blowing stop sign at 40 mph: no penalty

Cyclist with infant placed in basket in front of bike: no penalty

Cyclist with two small children on back with no helmets: no penalty

Man on e-bike going 35mph with child in lap with no helmet: no penalty

Car driver going 50 mph in a 25 mph zone with no traffic cameras: no penalty

Car driver doesnt stop at stop sign for full three seconds at empty intersection with camera: $100, doubled after 30 days

Please tell us what consequences arise if that $100 fine is not paid?

Almost of the other behaviors you mention violate DC traffic or child endangerment laws and fall well within the remit of MPD's enforcement authority. Not many people here will disagree with the argument that there should be more of that enforcement activity.

There's lots of consequences, which is why the statistics show most people pay their tickets. But it's hard not to feel like a sucker for paying when the city doesn't enforce any laws on any other mode of transportation. I see cyclists and people on e-bikes putting young children in imminent danger on a regular basis. Has a cyclist ever been issued a ticket in this city for anything at all? Has there been even one instance?

You claim that there are “lots of consequences” for not paying tickets and yet you can’t name one.

Are you really this stupid?

-Tickets double after a month
-A 20 percent surcharge applies after that
-The city sicks a collections agent after you who will call and text you every single day
-Your license can be suspended
-Your license can be revoked
-Your car can be booted or towed
-It will hurt your credit score
-You can't renew your driver's license
-You can't register a car
-The government will take the money out of your tax refund
-The government will sue you

This is peak DCUM. Some buffoon calls another poster “stupid” and then proceeds to get a whole slew of objective facts completely wrong. This is nothing quite as invigorating as encountering such self-righteous sh*theads in the wild. Never change, DCUM, never change.

It's obvious you don't drive. Go get yourself a ticket, don't pay it and see what happens. You can check off this list as each one happens. The idea that DC does nothing about unpaid tickets is plainly untrue, and you can go see for yourself, firsthand.

Are you speaking from experience or just making things up to make yourself feel better?

You don't have to take anyone's word for it. Just go get yourself a ticket and see what happens. This notion that DC doesn't pursue people is a weird and easily disproven urban myth.

"Easily disproven" you say, yet you can't come up with a single real world instance of someone who had their license suspended, revoked or non-renewed; who couldn't register their car; whose credit score was tarnished; or whose tax refund was garnished due to outstanding ticket fines.

Note that, since 2022, DC has allowed those with outstanding fines to renew their licenses (https://dcist.com/story/22/07/11/dc-end-debt-drivers-license-denial/). A driver who killed a pedestrian in DC a couple of years ago had thousands in unpaid camera tickets, yet had a valid registration and driver license.

Booting or towing of vehicles with outstanding fines does happen, once in a blue moon. DC has just seven boot crews and probably fewer tow crews. Only unoccupied vehicles with tickets more than 60-days old are eligible can be booted or towed. Some unlucky folk may get towed, but the probability is low.

Unpaid fines will go to a collections agency after a while and you may get calls and texts from them. I am not aware of any consequences resulting from those who ignored those calls or texts.

You obviously are not from DC. DC drivers license is a real ID. You will not be able to drive, bank or travel without a real ID. If you deny a drivers license because of outstanding debt, you are making it extremely hard for that person to pay off the debt. DC license renewal is once every 8 years.

That driver would have had to get all the tickets within a year. Car registration is done every one or two years and you must pay all your outstanding tickets.

District law requires that all vehicles housed and operated in the District of Columbia must be registered in the District unless the owner displays a reciprocity sticker issued by DC DMV. Before you can title and register a vehicle, all outstanding tickets, dishonored check(s) fee, delinquent child support payments or any other debt you owe to the District of Columbia Government must be paid.

Use DC DMV's online Document Verification Guide to determine what documents you need to title and register your vehicle.

https://dmv.dc.gov/service/vehicle-registrations

The problem in DC is you park on private property DC can not boot or tow the car. A new law should be passed allowing DC to search for cars with out standing tickets on private property- garages, universities, federal facilities, private driveways, residential garages, etc.

My spouse has a non-driver REAL ID that allows her to do all of these things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did you know there's almost no stop sign cameras west of the park? I wonder how that happens....

There's 17 speed cameras in Ward 3. In Ward 7, there's almost 60.

Listing this without listing data on accidents or fatalities isn’t that useful.
Traffic accidents, injuries, and fatalities are FAR higher in ward 7 than 3. This isn’t the racist “gotcha” that you think it is.

Where's the evidence that traffic cameras reduce accidents? DC has increasing ticketing by almost 10 times. Where's the corresponding reduction in traffic deaths?

The evidence was provided to you several pages back. But you reject it because it destroys your thesis. You are this website’s most boring broken record.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did you know there's almost no stop sign cameras west of the park? I wonder how that happens....

There's 17 speed cameras in Ward 3. In Ward 7, there's almost 60.

Listing this without listing data on accidents or fatalities isn’t that useful.
Traffic accidents, injuries, and fatalities are FAR higher in ward 7 than 3. This isn’t the racist “gotcha” that you think it is.

Actually it is.

https://www.propublica.org/article/chicagos-race-neutral-traffic-cameras-ticket-black-and-latino-drivers-the-most

Accidents and fatalities are much higher in majority black zip codes. Should city officials defer to those who break the law or those who are victimized by law breakers?

The underlying problem is that road infrastructure is generally much more conducive to speeding in black majority zip codes. The solution is more traffic calming etc..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did you know there's almost no stop sign cameras west of the park? I wonder how that happens....

There's 17 speed cameras in Ward 3. In Ward 7, there's almost 60.

Listing this without listing data on accidents or fatalities isn’t that useful.
Traffic accidents, injuries, and fatalities are FAR higher in ward 7 than 3. This isn’t the racist “gotcha” that you think it is.

Where's the evidence that traffic cameras reduce accidents? DC has increasing ticketing by almost 10 times. Where's the corresponding reduction in traffic deaths?

The evidence was provided to you several pages back. But you reject it because it destroys your thesis. You are this website’s most boring broken record.

No one has provided any evidence. That's the issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did you know there's almost no stop sign cameras west of the park? I wonder how that happens....

There's 17 speed cameras in Ward 3. In Ward 7, there's almost 60.

Listing this without listing data on accidents or fatalities isn’t that useful.
Traffic accidents, injuries, and fatalities are FAR higher in ward 7 than 3. This isn’t the racist “gotcha” that you think it is.

Actually it is.

https://www.propublica.org/article/chicagos-race-neutral-traffic-cameras-ticket-black-and-latino-drivers-the-most

Accidents and fatalities are much higher in majority black zip codes. Should city officials defer to those who break the law or those who are victimized by law breakers?

The underlying problem is that road infrastructure is generally much more conducive to speeding in black majority zip codes. The solution is more traffic calming etc..

Accidents and fatalities are rare in every section of the city. The city should not bombard people with tickets that cost them lots of money and make no difference to accident rates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did you know there's almost no stop sign cameras west of the park? I wonder how that happens....

There's 17 speed cameras in Ward 3. In Ward 7, there's almost 60.

Listing this without listing data on accidents or fatalities isn’t that useful.
Traffic accidents, injuries, and fatalities are FAR higher in ward 7 than 3. This isn’t the racist “gotcha” that you think it is.

Where's the evidence that traffic cameras reduce accidents? DC has increasing ticketing by almost 10 times. Where's the corresponding reduction in traffic deaths?

The evidence was provided to you several pages back. But you reject it because it destroys your thesis. You are this website’s most boring broken record.

No one has provided any evidence. That's the issue.

If there were evidence, it would be obvious by now. The city has increased ticketing by nearly 1000 percent over the past decade, and issues enough tickets each year to hit every driver in the city multiple times, and yet accident rates are no better than they were 10 years ago.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did you know there's almost no stop sign cameras west of the park? I wonder how that happens....

There's 17 speed cameras in Ward 3. In Ward 7, there's almost 60.

Listing this without listing data on accidents or fatalities isn’t that useful.
Traffic accidents, injuries, and fatalities are FAR higher in ward 7 than 3. This isn’t the racist “gotcha” that you think it is.

Actually it is.

https://www.propublica.org/article/chicagos-race-neutral-traffic-cameras-ticket-black-and-latino-drivers-the-most

Accidents and fatalities are much higher in majority black zip codes. Should city officials defer to those who break the law or those who are victimized by law breakers?

The underlying problem is that road infrastructure is generally much more conducive to speeding in black majority zip codes. The solution is more traffic calming etc..

Accidents and fatalities are rare in every section of the city. The city should not bombard people with tickets that cost them lots of money and make no difference to accident rates.

No one is bombarding you. You are actively breaking the law. You can choose to stop.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did you know there's almost no stop sign cameras west of the park? I wonder how that happens....

There's 17 speed cameras in Ward 3. In Ward 7, there's almost 60.

Listing this without listing data on accidents or fatalities isn’t that useful.
Traffic accidents, injuries, and fatalities are FAR higher in ward 7 than 3. This isn’t the racist “gotcha” that you think it is.

Actually it is.

https://www.propublica.org/article/chicagos-race-neutral-traffic-cameras-ticket-black-and-latino-drivers-the-most

Accidents and fatalities are much higher in majority black zip codes. Should city officials defer to those who break the law or those who are victimized by law breakers?

The underlying problem is that road infrastructure is generally much more conducive to speeding in black majority zip codes. The solution is more traffic calming etc..

Accidents and fatalities are rare in every section of the city. The city should not bombard people with tickets that cost them lots of money and make no difference to accident rates.

No one is bombarding you. You are actively breaking the law. You can choose to stop.

It would make more sense if we just had the cops give out the tickets. So many of the camera tickets are bullshit-y foot fault tickets. It's just harassment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did you know there's almost no stop sign cameras west of the park? I wonder how that happens....

There's 17 speed cameras in Ward 3. In Ward 7, there's almost 60.

Listing this without listing data on accidents or fatalities isn’t that useful.
Traffic accidents, injuries, and fatalities are FAR higher in ward 7 than 3. This isn’t the racist “gotcha” that you think it is.

Actually it is.

https://www.propublica.org/article/chicagos-race-neutral-traffic-cameras-ticket-black-and-latino-drivers-the-most

Accidents and fatalities are much higher in majority black zip codes. Should city officials defer to those who break the law or those who are victimized by law breakers?

The underlying problem is that road infrastructure is generally much more conducive to speeding in black majority zip codes. The solution is more traffic calming etc..

Accidents and fatalities are rare in every section of the city. The city should not bombard people with tickets that cost them lots of money and make no difference to accident rates.

No one is bombarding you. You are actively breaking the law. You can choose to stop.

It would make more sense if we just had the cops give out the tickets. So many of the camera tickets are bullshit-y foot fault tickets. It's just harassment.

A cop can at least determine when a ticket is actually deserved. I've paid more tickets than I care to admit where I stopped at a stop sign but my bumper was slightly hanging over the crosswalk. Even if there are no pedestrians anywhere, they will give you a ticket. What is the point of that? It just makes people think this is a money making racket, and has nothing to do with safety.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did you know there's almost no stop sign cameras west of the park? I wonder how that happens....

There's 17 speed cameras in Ward 3. In Ward 7, there's almost 60.

Listing this without listing data on accidents or fatalities isn’t that useful.
Traffic accidents, injuries, and fatalities are FAR higher in ward 7 than 3. This isn’t the racist “gotcha” that you think it is.

Actually it is.

https://www.propublica.org/article/chicagos-race-neutral-traffic-cameras-ticket-black-and-latino-drivers-the-most

Accidents and fatalities are much higher in majority black zip codes. Should city officials defer to those who break the law or those who are victimized by law breakers?

The underlying problem is that road infrastructure is generally much more conducive to speeding in black majority zip codes. The solution is more traffic calming etc..

Accidents and fatalities are rare in every section of the city. The city should not bombard people with tickets that cost them lots of money and make no difference to accident rates.

No one is bombarding you. You are actively breaking the law. You can choose to stop.

It would make more sense if we just had the cops give out the tickets. So many of the camera tickets are bullshit-y foot fault tickets. It's just harassment.

A cop can at least determine when a ticket is actually deserved. I've paid more tickets than I care to admit where I stopped at a stop sign but my bumper was slightly hanging over the crosswalk. Even if there are no pedestrians anywhere, they will give you a ticket. What is the point of that? It just makes people think this is a money making racket, and has nothing to do with safety.

It doesn't have anything to do with safety. There's a very loud vocal minority that just wants to punish cars. They brigaded social media during the pandemic and the normies didn't speak up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did you know there's almost no stop sign cameras west of the park? I wonder how that happens....

There's 17 speed cameras in Ward 3. In Ward 7, there's almost 60.

Listing this without listing data on accidents or fatalities isn’t that useful.
Traffic accidents, injuries, and fatalities are FAR higher in ward 7 than 3. This isn’t the racist “gotcha” that you think it is.

Actually it is.

https://www.propublica.org/article/chicagos-race-neutral-traffic-cameras-ticket-black-and-latino-drivers-the-most

Accidents and fatalities are much higher in majority black zip codes. Should city officials defer to those who break the law or those who are victimized by law breakers?

The underlying problem is that road infrastructure is generally much more conducive to speeding in black majority zip codes. The solution is more traffic calming etc..

Accidents and fatalities are rare in every section of the city. The city should not bombard people with tickets that cost them lots of money and make no difference to accident rates.

No one is bombarding you. You are actively breaking the law. You can choose to stop.

It would make more sense if we just had the cops give out the tickets. So many of the camera tickets are bullshit-y foot fault tickets. It's just harassment.

A cop can at least determine when a ticket is actually deserved. I've paid more tickets than I care to admit where I stopped at a stop sign but my bumper was slightly hanging over the crosswalk. Even if there are no pedestrians anywhere, they will give you a ticket. What is the point of that? It just makes people think this is a money making racket, and has nothing to do with safety.

It doesn't have anything to do with safety. There's a very loud vocal minority that just wants to punish cars. They brigaded social media during the pandemic and the normies didn't speak up.

Sure. It is a voluntary tax. You can pay it or you can comply with the law.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did you know there's almost no stop sign cameras west of the park? I wonder how that happens....

There's 17 speed cameras in Ward 3. In Ward 7, there's almost 60.

Listing this without listing data on accidents or fatalities isn’t that useful.
Traffic accidents, injuries, and fatalities are FAR higher in ward 7 than 3. This isn’t the racist “gotcha” that you think it is.

Actually it is.

https://www.propublica.org/article/chicagos-race-neutral-traffic-cameras-ticket-black-and-latino-drivers-the-most

Accidents and fatalities are much higher in majority black zip codes. Should city officials defer to those who break the law or those who are victimized by law breakers?

The underlying problem is that road infrastructure is generally much more conducive to speeding in black majority zip codes. The solution is more traffic calming etc..

Accidents and fatalities are rare in every section of the city. The city should not bombard people with tickets that cost them lots of money and make no difference to accident rates.

No one is bombarding you. You are actively breaking the law. You can choose to stop.

It would make more sense if we just had the cops give out the tickets. So many of the camera tickets are bullshit-y foot fault tickets. It's just harassment.

The cops do not give a crap. They never did.

And what the is a foot fault ticket?? Did you follow the law or not? Sounds like no, but you want to whine about it

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did you know there's almost no stop sign cameras west of the park? I wonder how that happens....

There's 17 speed cameras in Ward 3. In Ward 7, there's almost 60.

Listing this without listing data on accidents or fatalities isn’t that useful.
Traffic accidents, injuries, and fatalities are FAR higher in ward 7 than 3. This isn’t the racist “gotcha” that you think it is.

Where's the evidence that traffic cameras reduce accidents? DC has increasing ticketing by almost 10 times. Where's the corresponding reduction in traffic deaths?

The evidence was provided to you several pages back. But you reject it because it destroys your thesis. You are this website’s most boring broken record.

No one has provided any evidence. That's the issue.

If there were evidence, it would be obvious by now. The city has increased ticketing by nearly 1000 percent over the past decade, and issues enough tickets each year to hit every driver in the city multiple times, and yet accident rates are no better than they were 10 years ago.

There's more speeding deaths today than there was in 2014 (when the city issued about 360,000 tickets).