Majoring in English—why so much disrespect?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because we are living in a minor dark age.

oh yes, the age of space travel is such a dark age.

Space travel? More like an age of orbiting. Big woop.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Current English major and although I do get bored with Victorian novels I can’t imagine studying anything else. I have a plan of what I want to do and I’m happy. My major has set me back pre-professionally (no good internships), but I love writing and that’s what I want to work on. I also want to work on my critical thinking skills. I’m going into debt, but at least I’ve learned things I never thought I’d learn. Would I prefer a major that was better suited to my career? Maybe! But, I won’t have this level of learning and exploring again so I’ll use college for that.

How do you expect to pay your debts off? Hoping for another D potus who will have taxpayers pay off your debt?

Also, there are many many majors you can study that teach critical thinking skills, and where you will be able to get a decent paying job and not expect taxpayers to foot your bill.

Just patently shitting on a child. How classy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know women’s studies, studio art, and political science majors from my LAC, who went to medical school.

3% of med school students were/are humanities majors

It’s safe to say nobody knows many English majors who became doctors because it’s statistically impossible.

But you may know some.

Statistically if you know 33 doctors one of them majored in humanities. To know two you need to know 67 doctors. To know “a few” or you need to know hundreds of doctors.

Or you went to a top SLAC?

+1

Top SLAC students who go on to med school are impressive. They’ve self-selected into an environment that values a full liberal arts education.

Of the 9 pre-med students I knew in college, one was an art history major. She studied art in Florence during junior summer while the rest of us had internships. Then went directly from college to a top med school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

dony898 wrote:Everyone dunks on English majors until they need help writing a single coherent sentence on LinkedIn.

I had to write a job description recently and used AI for the first to time to do it. It was pretty dam* good. I just had to tweak it a bit. I was a bit shocked.

I saw a video of a fake podcast created by Google Gemini for a technical manual. It was shockingly amazing.

I think many, if not most, people find it to be good because they can't write to save their arse so anything that's comprehensible is going to be good.

95% of all communication in the business world is simply communicating the equivalent of the chicken crossed the road.

Who cares if your company earnings press release is written well. It just needs to communicate that revenues were up 5% and earnings increased 10%.

Who cares if advertising copy is well written? Almost nobody which is why it’s literally being taken over by AI.

Who cares if a Company’s IPO perspectus is well written? Nobody considering few read them…however you do need to make sure AI doesn’t hallucinate something to cause a lawsuit down the road.

This isn’t about “good” writing…it’s just is it good enough. That’s all the corporate world cares about.

What’s even funnier is the press release and prospectus are written typically by the C-suite or their direct reports, and then edited by the lawyers. The documents are then reviewed by the paralegals for errors and grammar. Of these individuals, it is the paralegal who is likely to have the English degree and who earns far less than any of the others in the process.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

dony898 wrote:Everyone dunks on English majors until they need help writing a single coherent sentence on LinkedIn.

I had to write a job description recently and used AI for the first to time to do it. It was pretty dam* good. I just had to tweak it a bit. I was a bit shocked.

I saw a video of a fake podcast created by Google Gemini for a technical manual. It was shockingly amazing.

I think many, if not most, people find it to be good because they can't write to save their arse so anything that's comprehensible is going to be good.

95% of all communication in the business world is simply communicating the equivalent of the chicken crossed the road.

Who cares if your company earnings press release is written well. It just needs to communicate that revenues were up 5% and earnings increased 10%.

Who cares if advertising copy is well written? Almost nobody which is why it’s literally being taken over by AI.

Who cares if a Company’s IPO perspectus is well written? Nobody considering few read them…however you do need to make sure AI doesn’t hallucinate something to cause a lawsuit down the road.

This isn’t about “good” writing…it’s just is it good enough. That’s all the corporate world cares about.

What’s even funnier is the press release and prospectus are written typically by the C-suite or their direct reports, and then edited by the lawyers. The documents are then reviewed by the paralegals for errors and grammar. Of these individuals, it is the paralegal who is likely to have the English degree and who earns far less than any of the others in the process.

Not sure what’s so “funny” with your post. You are entitled to your own opinion though.

[Anonymous]

There are also ton of students claiming pre-med majoring in Biology or similar. Yawn.

Once you actually get in a medical school or one of the respectable law schools, then you begin to get respect.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Current English major and although I do get bored with Victorian novels I can’t imagine studying anything else. I have a plan of what I want to do and I’m happy. My major has set me back pre-professionally (no good internships), but I love writing and that’s what I want to work on. I also want to work on my critical thinking skills. I’m going into debt, but at least I’ve learned things I never thought I’d learn. Would I prefer a major that was better suited to my career? Maybe! But, I won’t have this level of learning and exploring again so I’ll use college for that.

How do you expect to pay your debts off? Hoping for another D potus who will have taxpayers pay off your debt?

Also, there are many many majors you can study that teach critical thinking skills, and where you will be able to get a decent paying job and not expect taxpayers to foot your bill.

Just patently shitting on a child. How classy.

DP

Since when is someone over 18 a child that needs to be protected?!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Current English major and although I do get bored with Victorian novels I can’t imagine studying anything else. I have a plan of what I want to do and I’m happy. My major has set me back pre-professionally (no good internships), but I love writing and that’s what I want to work on. I also want to work on my critical thinking skills. I’m going into debt, but at least I’ve learned things I never thought I’d learn. Would I prefer a major that was better suited to my career? Maybe! But, I won’t have this level of learning and exploring again so I’ll use college for that.

How do you expect to pay your debts off? Hoping for another D potus who will have taxpayers pay off your debt?

Also, there are many many majors you can study that teach critical thinking skills, and where you will be able to get a decent paying job and not expect taxpayers to foot your bill.

I completely disagree with your assessment; English majors are absolutely employable. In fact, among the degrees that develop critical thinking and writing skills, I’d argue English is the strongest.

In my own career, I actively hire for those exact abilities: critical thinking, reading comprehension, and clear writing. English majors consistently excel in these areas and make excellent employees. The same goes for history majors and lawyers, even though my field has nothing to do with history. While many majors encourage analytical thinking, strong reading and writing skills are surprisingly rare.

DH is an engineer and it's a skill most of his employees are sorely lacking.

Personally, I’ve never once been unemployed as an English major. I earn a strong salary (currently $170k) and enjoy an excellent work/life balance

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Current English major and although I do get bored with Victorian novels I can’t imagine studying anything else. I have a plan of what I want to do and I’m happy. My major has set me back pre-professionally (no good internships), but I love writing and that’s what I want to work on. I also want to work on my critical thinking skills. I’m going into debt, but at least I’ve learned things I never thought I’d learn. Would I prefer a major that was better suited to my career? Maybe! But, I won’t have this level of learning and exploring again so I’ll use college for that.

How do you expect to pay your debts off? Hoping for another D potus who will have taxpayers pay off your debt?

Also, there are many many majors you can study that teach critical thinking skills, and where you will be able to get a decent paying job and not expect taxpayers to foot your bill.

I completely disagree with your assessment; English majors are absolutely employable. In fact, among the degrees that develop critical thinking and writing skills, I’d argue English is the strongest.

In my own career, I actively hire for those exact abilities: critical thinking, reading comprehension, and clear writing. English majors consistently excel in these areas and make excellent employees. The same goes for history majors and lawyers, even though my field has nothing to do with history. While many majors encourage analytical thinking, strong reading and writing skills are surprisingly rare.

DH is an engineer and it's a skill most of his employees are sorely lacking.

Personally, I’ve never once been unemployed as an English major. I earn a strong salary (currently $170k) and enjoy an excellent work/life balance

The market doesn't care about your opinion and limited experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Current English major and although I do get bored with Victorian novels I can’t imagine studying anything else. I have a plan of what I want to do and I’m happy. My major has set me back pre-professionally (no good internships), but I love writing and that’s what I want to work on. I also want to work on my critical thinking skills. I’m going into debt, but at least I’ve learned things I never thought I’d learn. Would I prefer a major that was better suited to my career? Maybe! But, I won’t have this level of learning and exploring again so I’ll use college for that.

How do you expect to pay your debts off? Hoping for another D potus who will have taxpayers pay off your debt?

Also, there are many many majors you can study that teach critical thinking skills, and where you will be able to get a decent paying job and not expect taxpayers to foot your bill.

I completely disagree with your assessment; English majors are absolutely employable. In fact, among the degrees that develop critical thinking and writing skills, I’d argue English is the strongest.

In my own career, I actively hire for those exact abilities: critical thinking, reading comprehension, and clear writing. English majors consistently excel in these areas and make excellent employees. The same goes for history majors and lawyers, even though my field has nothing to do with history. While many majors encourage analytical thinking, strong reading and writing skills are surprisingly rare.

DH is an engineer and it's a skill most of his employees are sorely lacking.

Personally, I’ve never once been unemployed as an English major. I earn a strong salary (currently $170k) and enjoy an excellent work/life balance

The market doesn't care about your opinion and limited experience.

Good thing that you also aren’t the market.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Current English major and although I do get bored with Victorian novels I can’t imagine studying anything else. I have a plan of what I want to do and I’m happy. My major has set me back pre-professionally (no good internships), but I love writing and that’s what I want to work on. I also want to work on my critical thinking skills. I’m going into debt, but at least I’ve learned things I never thought I’d learn. Would I prefer a major that was better suited to my career? Maybe! But, I won’t have this level of learning and exploring again so I’ll use college for that.

How do you expect to pay your debts off? Hoping for another D potus who will have taxpayers pay off your debt?

Also, there are many many majors you can study that teach critical thinking skills, and where you will be able to get a decent paying job and not expect taxpayers to foot your bill.

I completely disagree with your assessment; English majors are absolutely employable. In fact, among the degrees that develop critical thinking and writing skills, I’d argue English is the strongest.

In my own career, I actively hire for those exact abilities: critical thinking, reading comprehension, and clear writing. English majors consistently excel in these areas and make excellent employees. The same goes for history majors and lawyers, even though my field has nothing to do with history. While many majors encourage analytical thinking, strong reading and writing skills are surprisingly rare.

DH is an engineer and it's a skill most of his employees are sorely lacking.

Personally, I’ve never once been unemployed as an English major. I earn a strong salary (currently $170k) and enjoy an excellent work/life balance

A government job?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Current English major and although I do get bored with Victorian novels I can’t imagine studying anything else. I have a plan of what I want to do and I’m happy. My major has set me back pre-professionally (no good internships), but I love writing and that’s what I want to work on. I also want to work on my critical thinking skills. I’m going into debt, but at least I’ve learned things I never thought I’d learn. Would I prefer a major that was better suited to my career? Maybe! But, I won’t have this level of learning and exploring again so I’ll use college for that.

How do you expect to pay your debts off? Hoping for another D potus who will have taxpayers pay off your debt?

Also, there are many many majors you can study that teach critical thinking skills, and where you will be able to get a decent paying job and not expect taxpayers to foot your bill.

I completely disagree with your assessment; English majors are absolutely employable. In fact, among the degrees that develop critical thinking and writing skills, I’d argue English is the strongest.

In my own career, I actively hire for those exact abilities: critical thinking, reading comprehension, and clear writing. English majors consistently excel in these areas and make excellent employees. The same goes for history majors and lawyers, even though my field has nothing to do with history. While many majors encourage analytical thinking, strong reading and writing skills are surprisingly rare.

DH is an engineer and it's a skill most of his employees are sorely lacking.

Personally, I’ve never once been unemployed as an English major. I earn a strong salary (currently $170k) and enjoy an excellent work/life balance

The market doesn't care about your opinion and limited experience.

Good thing that you also aren’t the market.

We live in the 21st century and data is available.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:History and English were considered respectable majors in the past. I know many who went on to law school or medical school. They’re generally thought to have good writing and analytical skills. Now, people scoff when you saying you’re majoring in English or history. I know there’s AI to worry about, but isn’t that true for CS and accounting too?

It's because English is the epitome of the sort of liberal arts degree that committed hara-kiri and now is a brainless zombie shuffling through the graveyard of academe. English majors at mid-tier colleges are unable to read anything difficult, because their degree doesn't prepare them for it. English majors at higher end colleges might be better able to read difficult texts -- rigorous data is not available, but see here for concerns ( https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2024/11/the-elite-college-students-who-cant-read-books/679945/ ) -- but don't have the need to do so to make their way through the major.

Allow me to shamelessly plagiarize my post, from here: https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1275855.page

This recently published paper looked at the reading ability of English majors at two colleges in the middle tier. Not particularly selective, but also not open enrollment. Average reading ACT score of the participants was 22.4, around the 74th percentile. Perhaps a 550 in SAT English terms, ie a group of students which should have a substantial portion of 'college material'.

https://muse.jhu.edu/article/922346

"This paper analyzes the results from a think-aloud reading study designed to test the reading comprehension skills of 85 English majors from two regional Kansas universities. From January to April of 2015, subjects participated in a recorded, twenty-minute reading session in which they were asked to read the first seven paragraphs of Charles Dickens’ Bleak House out loud to a facilitator and then translate each sentence into plain English. Before subjects started the reading tests, they were given access to online resources and dictionaries and advised that they could also use their own cell phones as a resource. The facilitators also assured the subjects that were free to go at their own pace and did not have to finish reading all seven paragraphs by the end of the exam. As part of the study, each subject filled out a survey collecting personal data (class rank, G.P.A., etc.) and took a national literacy exam (the Degrees of Reading Power Test 10A). After the 85 taped reading tests were completed, the results were transcribed and coded."

As can be expected, the results are horrendous.

"Beyond their reading tactics, problematic readers were continually challenged by the figures of speech that are woven into the novel’s descriptions. 57 percent of the subjects would ignore a figure of speech altogether and try to translate the literal meanings around it while 41 percent would interpret at least one figure of speech literally, even if it made no sense in the context of the sentence. One subject even imagined dinosaurs lumbering around London:

Original Text:

As much mud in the streets, as if the waters had but newly retired from the face of the earth, and it would not be wonderful to meet a Megalosaurus, forty feet long or so, waddling like an elephantine lizard up Holborn Hill.
Subject:

[Pause.] [Laughs.] So it’s like, um, [Pause.] the mud was all in the streets, and we were, no . . . [Pause.] so everything’s been like kind of washed around and we might find Megalosaurus bones but he’s says they’re waddling, um, all up the hill.

The subject cannot make the leap to figurative language. She first guesses that the dinosaur is just “bones” and then is stuck stating that the bones are “waddling, um, all up the hill” because she can see that Dickens has the dinosaur moving. Because she cannot logically tie the ideas together, she just leaves her interpretation as is and goes on to the next sentence. "

This next one is an attempt by someone described as a 'competent reader'

"Original Text:

LONDON. Michaelmas Term lately over, and the Lord Chancellor sitting in Lincoln’s Inn Hall. Implacable November weather. As much mud in the streets, as if the waters had but newly retired from the face of the earth, and it would not be wonderful to meet a Megalosaurus, forty feet long or so, waddling like an elephantine lizard up Holborn Hill. Smoke lowering down . . .
Facilitator:

Before you go on, I’m going to ask you to kind of explain.
Subject:

Oh, O.K.
Facilitator:

what you read so far, so.
Subject:

O.K. Two characters it’s pointed out this Michaelmas and Lord Chancellor described as sitting in Lincoln’s Inn Hall.
Facilitator:

O.K.
Subject:

Um, talk about the November weather. Uh, mud in the streets. And, uh, I do probably need to look up “Megolasaurus”— “meet a Megolasaurus, forty feet long or so,” so it’s probably some kind of an animal or something or another that it is talking about encountering in the streets. And “wandering like an elephantine lizard up Holborn Hill.” So, yup, I think we’ve encountered some kind of an animal these, these characters have, have met in the street. yup, I think we’ve encountered some kind of an animal these, these characters have, have met in the street."


To add to the horror, this study is based on data collected in *2015*. However bad things were then, they are much worse now.

I will add: if the liberal arts had not destroyed themselves, these kids could very well have done better. Abandonment of the slow process of scaffolding kids through more and more difficult texts through elementary and then high school has helped breed rampant failures by English departments in colleges.

If anything, this points to the need for more and better English education in high school and in college. We can't abandon the liberal arts in college because clearly students aren't learning what they need. I bet a similar study of historical analysis/understanding would be just as dim.

If we accept as true DCUM belief that AI is taking over everything, the skills that these students lack will be even more important.

I agree that better would be valuable. But there are few colleges that even offer a course of study that reaches the mark, and fewer that ensure their students have reached it, and even fewer where the degree is actually in "English". Off the top of my head, in fact, I can't think of any -- St. John's, Zaytuna, New Franklin and others of that ilk graduate their students with degrees titled as variations on the Liberal Arts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Current English major and although I do get bored with Victorian novels I can’t imagine studying anything else. I have a plan of what I want to do and I’m happy. My major has set me back pre-professionally (no good internships), but I love writing and that’s what I want to work on. I also want to work on my critical thinking skills. I’m going into debt, but at least I’ve learned things I never thought I’d learn. Would I prefer a major that was better suited to my career? Maybe! But, I won’t have this level of learning and exploring again so I’ll use college for that.

How do you expect to pay your debts off? Hoping for another D potus who will have taxpayers pay off your debt?

Also, there are many many majors you can study that teach critical thinking skills, and where you will be able to get a decent paying job and not expect taxpayers to foot your bill.

I completely disagree with your assessment; English majors are absolutely employable. In fact, among the degrees that develop critical thinking and writing skills, I’d argue English is the strongest.

In my own career, I actively hire for those exact abilities: critical thinking, reading comprehension, and clear writing. English majors consistently excel in these areas and make excellent employees. The same goes for history majors and lawyers, even though my field has nothing to do with history. While many majors encourage analytical thinking, strong reading and writing skills are surprisingly rare.

DH is an engineer and it's a skill most of his employees are sorely lacking.

Personally, I’ve never once been unemployed as an English major. I earn a strong salary (currently $170k) and enjoy an excellent work/life balance

What’s the job? Nobody is saying there aren’t jobs well-suited for an English major. Just that are far fewer than STEM and other quantitiive-heavy backgrounds.

A friend of mine works at McKinsey helping publish research reports and they hire only humanities majors. The group is small…only 20 people. Even the vast majority of McKinsey consultants come from quantitative backgrounds.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Current English major and although I do get bored with Victorian novels I can’t imagine studying anything else. I have a plan of what I want to do and I’m happy. My major has set me back pre-professionally (no good internships), but I love writing and that’s what I want to work on. I also want to work on my critical thinking skills. I’m going into debt, but at least I’ve learned things I never thought I’d learn. Would I prefer a major that was better suited to my career? Maybe! But, I won’t have this level of learning and exploring again so I’ll use college for that.

How do you expect to pay your debts off? Hoping for another D potus who will have taxpayers pay off your debt?

Also, there are many many majors you can study that teach critical thinking skills, and where you will be able to get a decent paying job and not expect taxpayers to foot your bill.

I completely disagree with your assessment; English majors are absolutely employable. In fact, among the degrees that develop critical thinking and writing skills, I’d argue English is the strongest.

In my own career, I actively hire for those exact abilities: critical thinking, reading comprehension, and clear writing. English majors consistently excel in these areas and make excellent employees. The same goes for history majors and lawyers, even though my field has nothing to do with history. While many majors encourage analytical thinking, strong reading and writing skills are surprisingly rare.

DH is an engineer and it's a skill most of his employees are sorely lacking.

Personally, I’ve never once been unemployed as an English major. I earn a strong salary (currently $170k) and enjoy an excellent work/life balance

What’s the job? Nobody is saying there aren’t jobs well-suited for an English major. Just that are far fewer than STEM and other quantitiive-heavy backgrounds.

A friend of mine works at McKinsey helping publish research reports and they hire only humanities majors. The group is small…only 20 people. Even the vast majority of McKinsey consultants come from quantitative backgrounds.

Impressive that you know the educational background of a friend's employer. I've worked for the same company for 11 years. I probably know where maybe 10 colleagues went to school and even fewer their field of study.