European Expansion: Eye-Opening, Frustrating, and Possibly Not Worth It - Underperforming employee culture

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:USA was settled and populated by Europe's failures

You are totally wrong.

The USA was settled by Europe's hustlers, go getters and dreamers.

The lazy people without ambitioned stayed behing.

Well, there is something to be said for the people who got on the boats. They had a higher tolerance for risk.
They also had nothing to lose. So I think there's a combination of failure due to primogeniture culture and hustle to see what's on the other side.

I know this is a popular narrative, but this is not generally true. Lots of immigrants came to the US with capital to invest from the very start. Vonnegut addresses this in some of his writing from the German perspective. They had plenty to lose, but they saw the US as a good investment opportunity with greater freedoms than Europe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Work isn’t the most important thing in life. If you don’t know that now, you’ll likely realize it on your deathbed.

+1.

European work culture has it right.

Not if you want to actually earn money.

Incorrect. My entire family is in Europe and they make really good money. My H works for an international company and the European are getting paid very well. Americans are buried in debt, the net worth here is actually pretty low.

Exactly. Most Americans have been sold this BS that you have to hustle non-stop in order to make money because that's the only thing that matters in life. Europeans in general have a much better sense of balance and their lives on average are much better than those living in 4000 sq ft houses in the US

If you say so. I personally don’t want to work 5 fewer hours a week so I can cram my entire family into a tiny house. Make fun of large American homes all you want, but they are way more comfortable, and pretty much every European would buy a larger home if they could afford it.

But ask them if they'd give up their work life balance for that bigger paycheck and house, and most would say no. Look at the happiest countries in the world. US doesn't even break the T20. Countries with generous leave make the Top20.

Eh those studies are biased and heavily dependent on how people consider happiness and what their standard is.

so, Americans have more sh&+ but they are still unhappy, work too much, and complain a lot compared to those other countries. Got it.

Don't forget fat. And all that sh* is poor quality. Working 10 hours, commuting 2 more so you can buy polyester at Macy's and overpriced diabetes medication. Don't get me started on the quality of the housing.

Have you even known any Europeans personally? Because I have and I don’t get the impression their lifestyle is much, if at all, better. I’ll give you they eat healthier food and there are fewer overweight people, but I myself am not friends with anyone who is grossly overweight and most people I know eat a healthy diet.

My European friends struggle with the same things as Americans and appear to have a lot less disposable income. What stands out the most is that two white collar professionals have a very limited income that doesn’t allow for outsourcing of any kind. So while they may have an extra 2 weeks of vacation than I do, they can’t afford to go out to dinner as a family, spend their extra time cleaning their house, and vacation by traveling to less expensive locations like Spain. My lifestyle looks opulent compared to theirs and almost embarrassing when they ask me questions about it.

It’s also anecdotal but my European friends appear to have a lot less flexibility at work. I get the impression it’s much more clock in/out mentality and the need to meet every rule, but not a common sense approach to work.

A lot of the advantages they have you could also apply here. You could live in a 1,100 square foot home and commute to work via bus or bike. You could shop at farmers markets and buy less stuff. Here you have the choice.

You have no idea what you’re talking about. I am European who grew up there and whose sister still lives in Italy. My sister and her husband work and make a lot less than I do, but they take a couple of vacations every year, have a house, two cars. They also have an amazing health system, much better food, they come home for a couple of hours every day for lunch, spend a lot more time with their child.

No, they don’t hire someone to clean their house, or to mow their lawn, but it’s hardly a justification for the hamper wheel we have here. I lived and worked in both, you make more money here but at a great cost.

Also lived in Western Europe (and at one point Eastern). Agree with this sentiment completely.

The capitalist mindset is very focused on false “choice,” IMHO. And it’s not made anyone any happier or healthier in this country.

But downside they are stealing from their children and grandchildren to fund the lifestyle. Meaning my old boss in Germany with Free Healthcare, a great pension from Work, beach house, an amazing rent controlled house has great cash flow but nearly all his assets die with him.

The Pension stops, rent control apt stops, his beach house is actually a family house owned by MIL which is communal so cant pass to his kid. He only had one kid.

In the US He would own at time of death, his own primary home mortgage free, his beach house mortgage free, had a large amount of 401k/IRA/Savings Account money save due to higher income. Maybe 2-4 cars or boat. The US is focused on Assets. Plus in Europe next to US the percentage of people who own stocks and real estate is way less. The 16 years has been a massive run up in Real Estate and Stock Prices. My relatives in Europe for instance missed the boat on that as well did a lot of my older european co-workers.

A plan old mid level VP in a Bank in US in DC area is retiring at 65 with two million in 401k/IRAs and a 1.5 million dollar home paid off. That's before any other savings. That 3.5 million would be shocking to a European for a bank VP to have. And if that bank VP dropped dead day one of retirement his wife and kids get it. My old boss with his rental and defined pension lives the high life but he is really passing on nothing much to next generation.

So we should all work like machines to plan for our deaths?

yes in fact. My parents did, they worked like dogs in Europe to get to the USA to have a better life for their kids. They would have been better off staying in long run for themselves. But they got here separately, met and raised 4 kids who all have grad degrees, who all got married, had kids and all bought houses and putting all the kids through college. I am only first generation American but I expect by time my kids have kids they will be summering in Hamptons, Skiing in Aspen, Going to Ivy League schools. Maybe be President of the United States or win American Idol or cure cancer who knows. But if my parents never left their country and met there and had us four kids would have set us back several generations.

Which of the 50+ countries did they come from? That makes a huge difference on whether or not they would have been better off.

Well I live in a two million dollar home and have a beach house and new cars in the driveway. Highly doubt my homeless 6th grade educated parents could have got me very far had they stayed in Europe. I say homeless as one was one of eight the other was one of five. Only the oldest son inherits house and rest must get out. My Mom got kicked out of home at 12. My Dad at 14. In the US got HS degrees at night, bought a house, raised four kids how is that possible in Europe it is not.

Instead they get cheap medical, can go on the dole I guess and sit in a pub drinking pints and smoking and dying young like all my uncles did.

It’s commendable that your parents and family have done so well in the US. But do you understand that not everybody wants to summer in the Hamptons or ski in Aspen? The fact that some people may be happier with less material wealth does not negate the fact that you are very happy with what you have. In fact, there are probably people on both sides of the Atlantic who would be happier if they could swap lives with each other. Nothing wrong with that.

[Anonymous]

So, there may be some cultural differences that make working across offices in different countries challenging. Yay for me because this has been my field for about 25 years. I love to see the challenges continue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:USA was settled and populated by Europe's failures

You are totally wrong.

The USA was settled by Europe's hustlers, go getters and dreamers.

The lazy people without ambitioned stayed behing.

Well, there is something to be said for the people who got on the boats. They had a higher tolerance for risk.
They also had nothing to lose. So I think there's a combination of failure due to primogeniture culture and hustle to see what's on the other side.

I know this is a popular narrative, but this is not generally true. Lots of immigrants came to the US with capital to invest from the very start. Vonnegut addresses this in some of his writing from the German perspective. They had plenty to lose, but they saw the US as a good investment opportunity with greater freedoms than Europe.

Well, yes, ‘free’ land and slave labour did create some pretty fabulous investment returns. Some of my family left Napoleon-controlled Netherlands to exploit land and slaves on American plantations. Does that make them hustlers?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Work isn’t the most important thing in life. If you don’t know that now, you’ll likely realize it on your deathbed.

+1.

European work culture has it right.

Not if you want to actually earn money.

Incorrect. My entire family is in Europe and they make really good money. My H works for an international company and the European are getting paid very well. Americans are buried in debt, the net worth here is actually pretty low.

Exactly. Most Americans have been sold this BS that you have to hustle non-stop in order to make money because that's the only thing that matters in life. Europeans in general have a much better sense of balance and their lives on average are much better than those living in 4000 sq ft houses in the US

If you say so. I personally don’t want to work 5 fewer hours a week so I can cram my entire family into a tiny house. Make fun of large American homes all you want, but they are way more comfortable, and pretty much every European would buy a larger home if they could afford it.

But ask them if they'd give up their work life balance for that bigger paycheck and house, and most would say no. Look at the happiest countries in the world. US doesn't even break the T20. Countries with generous leave make the Top20.

Eh those studies are biased and heavily dependent on how people consider happiness and what their standard is.

so, Americans have more sh&+ but they are still unhappy, work too much, and complain a lot compared to those other countries. Got it.

Don't forget fat. And all that sh* is poor quality. Working 10 hours, commuting 2 more so you can buy polyester at Macy's and overpriced diabetes medication. Don't get me started on the quality of the housing.

Have you even known any Europeans personally? Because I have and I don’t get the impression their lifestyle is much, if at all, better. I’ll give you they eat healthier food and there are fewer overweight people, but I myself am not friends with anyone who is grossly overweight and most people I know eat a healthy diet.

My European friends struggle with the same things as Americans and appear to have a lot less disposable income. What stands out the most is that two white collar professionals have a very limited income that doesn’t allow for outsourcing of any kind. So while they may have an extra 2 weeks of vacation than I do, they can’t afford to go out to dinner as a family, spend their extra time cleaning their house, and vacation by traveling to less expensive locations like Spain. My lifestyle looks opulent compared to theirs and almost embarrassing when they ask me questions about it.

It’s also anecdotal but my European friends appear to have a lot less flexibility at work. I get the impression it’s much more clock in/out mentality and the need to meet every rule, but not a common sense approach to work.

A lot of the advantages they have you could also apply here. You could live in a 1,100 square foot home and commute to work via bus or bike. You could shop at farmers markets and buy less stuff. Here you have the choice.

You have no idea what you’re talking about. I am European who grew up there and whose sister still lives in Italy. My sister and her husband work and make a lot less than I do, but they take a couple of vacations every year, have a house, two cars. They also have an amazing health system, much better food, they come home for a couple of hours every day for lunch, spend a lot more time with their child.

No, they don’t hire someone to clean their house, or to mow their lawn, but it’s hardly a justification for the hamper wheel we have here. I lived and worked in both, you make more money here but at a great cost.

Also lived in Western Europe (and at one point Eastern). Agree with this sentiment completely.

The capitalist mindset is very focused on false “choice,” IMHO. And it’s not made anyone any happier or healthier in this country.

But downside they are stealing from their children and grandchildren to fund the lifestyle. Meaning my old boss in Germany with Free Healthcare, a great pension from Work, beach house, an amazing rent controlled house has great cash flow but nearly all his assets die with him.

The Pension stops, rent control apt stops, his beach house is actually a family house owned by MIL which is communal so cant pass to his kid. He only had one kid.

In the US He would own at time of death, his own primary home mortgage free, his beach house mortgage free, had a large amount of 401k/IRA/Savings Account money save due to higher income. Maybe 2-4 cars or boat. The US is focused on Assets. Plus in Europe next to US the percentage of people who own stocks and real estate is way less. The 16 years has been a massive run up in Real Estate and Stock Prices. My relatives in Europe for instance missed the boat on that as well did a lot of my older european co-workers.

A plan old mid level VP in a Bank in US in DC area is retiring at 65 with two million in 401k/IRAs and a 1.5 million dollar home paid off. That's before any other savings. That 3.5 million would be shocking to a European for a bank VP to have. And if that bank VP dropped dead day one of retirement his wife and kids get it. My old boss with his rental and defined pension lives the high life but he is really passing on nothing much to next generation.

So we should all work like machines to plan for our deaths?

yes in fact. My parents did, they worked like dogs in Europe to get to the USA to have a better life for their kids. They would have been better off staying in long run for themselves. But they got here separately, met and raised 4 kids who all have grad degrees, who all got married, had kids and all bought houses and putting all the kids through college. I am only first generation American but I expect by time my kids have kids they will be summering in Hamptons, Skiing in Aspen, Going to Ivy League schools. Maybe be President of the United States or win American Idol or cure cancer who knows. But if my parents never left their country and met there and had us four kids would have set us back several generations.

Which of the 50+ countries did they come from? That makes a huge difference on whether or not they would have been better off.

Well I live in a two million dollar home and have a beach house and new cars in the driveway. Highly doubt my homeless 6th grade educated parents could have got me very far had they stayed in Europe. I say homeless as one was one of eight the other was one of five. Only the oldest son inherits house and rest must get out. My Mom got kicked out of home at 12. My Dad at 14. In the US got HS degrees at night, bought a house, raised four kids how is that possible in Europe it is not.

Instead they get cheap medical, can go on the dole I guess and sit in a pub drinking pints and smoking and dying young like all my uncles did.

It’s commendable that your parents and family have done so well in the US. But do you understand that not everybody wants to summer in the Hamptons or ski in Aspen? The fact that some people may be happier with less material wealth does not negate the fact that you are very happy with what you have. In fact, there are probably people on both sides of the Atlantic who would be happier if they could swap lives with each other. Nothing wrong with that.

If you tell a MC person in western Europe that they have to work longer hours for less benefits, they'd revolt. Americans work longer hours, and accept that we get less benefits, pay more for medical care and college. Not sure who is happier here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Work isn’t the most important thing in life. If you don’t know that now, you’ll likely realize it on your deathbed.

+1.

European work culture has it right.

Not if you want to actually earn money.

Incorrect. My entire family is in Europe and they make really good money. My H works for an international company and the European are getting paid very well. Americans are buried in debt, the net worth here is actually pretty low.

Exactly. Most Americans have been sold this BS that you have to hustle non-stop in order to make money because that's the only thing that matters in life. Europeans in general have a much better sense of balance and their lives on average are much better than those living in 4000 sq ft houses in the US

If you say so. I personally don’t want to work 5 fewer hours a week so I can cram my entire family into a tiny house. Make fun of large American homes all you want, but they are way more comfortable, and pretty much every European would buy a larger home if they could afford it.

But ask them if they'd give up their work life balance for that bigger paycheck and house, and most would say no. Look at the happiest countries in the world. US doesn't even break the T20. Countries with generous leave make the Top20.

Eh those studies are biased and heavily dependent on how people consider happiness and what their standard is.

so, Americans have more sh&+ but they are still unhappy, work too much, and complain a lot compared to those other countries. Got it.

Don't forget fat. And all that sh* is poor quality. Working 10 hours, commuting 2 more so you can buy polyester at Macy's and overpriced diabetes medication. Don't get me started on the quality of the housing.

Have you even known any Europeans personally? Because I have and I don’t get the impression their lifestyle is much, if at all, better. I’ll give you they eat healthier food and there are fewer overweight people, but I myself am not friends with anyone who is grossly overweight and most people I know eat a healthy diet.

My European friends struggle with the same things as Americans and appear to have a lot less disposable income. What stands out the most is that two white collar professionals have a very limited income that doesn’t allow for outsourcing of any kind. So while they may have an extra 2 weeks of vacation than I do, they can’t afford to go out to dinner as a family, spend their extra time cleaning their house, and vacation by traveling to less expensive locations like Spain. My lifestyle looks opulent compared to theirs and almost embarrassing when they ask me questions about it.

It’s also anecdotal but my European friends appear to have a lot less flexibility at work. I get the impression it’s much more clock in/out mentality and the need to meet every rule, but not a common sense approach to work.

A lot of the advantages they have you could also apply here. You could live in a 1,100 square foot home and commute to work via bus or bike. You could shop at farmers markets and buy less stuff. Here you have the choice.

You have no idea what you’re talking about. I am European who grew up there and whose sister still lives in Italy. My sister and her husband work and make a lot less than I do, but they take a couple of vacations every year, have a house, two cars. They also have an amazing health system, much better food, they come home for a couple of hours every day for lunch, spend a lot more time with their child.

No, they don’t hire someone to clean their house, or to mow their lawn, but it’s hardly a justification for the hamper wheel we have here. I lived and worked in both, you make more money here but at a great cost.

Also lived in Western Europe (and at one point Eastern). Agree with this sentiment completely.

The capitalist mindset is very focused on false “choice,” IMHO. And it’s not made anyone any happier or healthier in this country.

But downside they are stealing from their children and grandchildren to fund the lifestyle. Meaning my old boss in Germany with Free Healthcare, a great pension from Work, beach house, an amazing rent controlled house has great cash flow but nearly all his assets die with him.

The Pension stops, rent control apt stops, his beach house is actually a family house owned by MIL which is communal so cant pass to his kid. He only had one kid.

In the US He would own at time of death, his own primary home mortgage free, his beach house mortgage free, had a large amount of 401k/IRA/Savings Account money save due to higher income. Maybe 2-4 cars or boat. The US is focused on Assets. Plus in Europe next to US the percentage of people who own stocks and real estate is way less. The 16 years has been a massive run up in Real Estate and Stock Prices. My relatives in Europe for instance missed the boat on that as well did a lot of my older european co-workers.

A plan old mid level VP in a Bank in US in DC area is retiring at 65 with two million in 401k/IRAs and a 1.5 million dollar home paid off. That's before any other savings. That 3.5 million would be shocking to a European for a bank VP to have. And if that bank VP dropped dead day one of retirement his wife and kids get it. My old boss with his rental and defined pension lives the high life but he is really passing on nothing much to next generation.

So we should all work like machines to plan for our deaths?

yes in fact. My parents did, they worked like dogs in Europe to get to the USA to have a better life for their kids. They would have been better off staying in long run for themselves. But they got here separately, met and raised 4 kids who all have grad degrees, who all got married, had kids and all bought houses and putting all the kids through college. I am only first generation American but I expect by time my kids have kids they will be summering in Hamptons, Skiing in Aspen, Going to Ivy League schools. Maybe be President of the United States or win American Idol or cure cancer who knows. But if my parents never left their country and met there and had us four kids would have set us back several generations.

Which of the 50+ countries did they come from? That makes a huge difference on whether or not they would have been better off.

Well I live in a two million dollar home and have a beach house and new cars in the driveway. Highly doubt my homeless 6th grade educated parents could have got me very far had they stayed in Europe. I say homeless as one was one of eight the other was one of five. Only the oldest son inherits house and rest must get out. My Mom got kicked out of home at 12. My Dad at 14. In the US got HS degrees at night, bought a house, raised four kids how is that possible in Europe it is not.

Instead they get cheap medical, can go on the dole I guess and sit in a pub drinking pints and smoking and dying young like all my uncles did.

It’s commendable that your parents and family have done so well in the US. But do you understand that not everybody wants to summer in the Hamptons or ski in Aspen? The fact that some people may be happier with less material wealth does not negate the fact that you are very happy with what you have. In fact, there are probably people on both sides of the Atlantic who would be happier if they could swap lives with each other. Nothing wrong with that.

If you tell a MC person in western Europe that they have to work longer hours for less benefits, they'd revolt. Americans work longer hours, and accept that we get less benefits, pay more for medical care and college. Not sure who is happier here.

So what? Will said European country just take your visa application and hand out free healthcare tomorrow?

[Anonymous]

I have Europeans working for me here in the US. They know how to hustle. Guess that’s why they left - the US rewards smart hustlers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:USA was settled and populated by Europe's failures

You are totally wrong.

The USA was settled by Europe's hustlers, go getters and dreamers.

The lazy people without ambitioned stayed behing.

Well, there is something to be said for the people who got on the boats. They had a higher tolerance for risk.
They also had nothing to lose. So I think there's a combination of failure due to primogeniture culture and hustle to see what's on the other side.

I know this is a popular narrative, but this is not generally true. Lots of immigrants came to the US with capital to invest from the very start. Vonnegut addresses this in some of his writing from the German perspective. They had plenty to lose, but they saw the US as a good investment opportunity with greater freedoms than Europe.

Well, yes, ‘free’ land and slave labour did create some pretty fabulous investment returns. Some of my family left Napoleon-controlled Netherlands to exploit land and slaves on American plantations. Does that make them hustlers?

Yes? Exploiting others is the definition of hustling.

[Anonymous]

I would move to Europe tomorrow if I could. Working long hours is stupid. I don’t need a lot of money if everything is free like it is over there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would move to Europe tomorrow if I could. Working long hours is stupid. I don’t need a lot of money if everything is free like it is over there.

I tried this before I came to US. They only want me to do contract based job. Full time roles were reserved for local Brits!
So I came to US and at least I got paid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Work isn’t the most important thing in life. If you don’t know that now, you’ll likely realize it on your deathbed.

+1.

European work culture has it right.

Not if you want to actually earn money.

Incorrect. My entire family is in Europe and they make really good money. My H works for an international company and the European are getting paid very well. Americans are buried in debt, the net worth here is actually pretty low.

Exactly. Most Americans have been sold this BS that you have to hustle non-stop in order to make money because that's the only thing that matters in life. Europeans in general have a much better sense of balance and their lives on average are much better than those living in 4000 sq ft houses in the US

If you say so. I personally don’t want to work 5 fewer hours a week so I can cram my entire family into a tiny house. Make fun of large American homes all you want, but they are way more comfortable, and pretty much every European would buy a larger home if they could afford it.

But ask them if they'd give up their work life balance for that bigger paycheck and house, and most would say no. Look at the happiest countries in the world. US doesn't even break the T20. Countries with generous leave make the Top20.

Eh those studies are biased and heavily dependent on how people consider happiness and what their standard is.

so, Americans have more sh&+ but they are still unhappy, work too much, and complain a lot compared to those other countries. Got it.

Don't forget fat. And all that sh* is poor quality. Working 10 hours, commuting 2 more so you can buy polyester at Macy's and overpriced diabetes medication. Don't get me started on the quality of the housing.

Have you even known any Europeans personally? Because I have and I don’t get the impression their lifestyle is much, if at all, better. I’ll give you they eat healthier food and there are fewer overweight people, but I myself am not friends with anyone who is grossly overweight and most people I know eat a healthy diet.

My European friends struggle with the same things as Americans and appear to have a lot less disposable income. What stands out the most is that two white collar professionals have a very limited income that doesn’t allow for outsourcing of any kind. So while they may have an extra 2 weeks of vacation than I do, they can’t afford to go out to dinner as a family, spend their extra time cleaning their house, and vacation by traveling to less expensive locations like Spain. My lifestyle looks opulent compared to theirs and almost embarrassing when they ask me questions about it.

It’s also anecdotal but my European friends appear to have a lot less flexibility at work. I get the impression it’s much more clock in/out mentality and the need to meet every rule, but not a common sense approach to work.

A lot of the advantages they have you could also apply here. You could live in a 1,100 square foot home and commute to work via bus or bike. You could shop at farmers markets and buy less stuff. Here you have the choice.

You have no idea what you’re talking about. I am European who grew up there and whose sister still lives in Italy. My sister and her husband work and make a lot less than I do, but they take a couple of vacations every year, have a house, two cars. They also have an amazing health system, much better food, they come home for a couple of hours every day for lunch, spend a lot more time with their child.

No, they don’t hire someone to clean their house, or to mow their lawn, but it’s hardly a justification for the hamper wheel we have here. I lived and worked in both, you make more money here but at a great cost.

Also lived in Western Europe (and at one point Eastern). Agree with this sentiment completely.

The capitalist mindset is very focused on false “choice,” IMHO. And it’s not made anyone any happier or healthier in this country.

But downside they are stealing from their children and grandchildren to fund the lifestyle. Meaning my old boss in Germany with Free Healthcare, a great pension from Work, beach house, an amazing rent controlled house has great cash flow but nearly all his assets die with him.

The Pension stops, rent control apt stops, his beach house is actually a family house owned by MIL which is communal so cant pass to his kid. He only had one kid.

In the US He would own at time of death, his own primary home mortgage free, his beach house mortgage free, had a large amount of 401k/IRA/Savings Account money save due to higher income. Maybe 2-4 cars or boat. The US is focused on Assets. Plus in Europe next to US the percentage of people who own stocks and real estate is way less. The 16 years has been a massive run up in Real Estate and Stock Prices. My relatives in Europe for instance missed the boat on that as well did a lot of my older european co-workers.

A plan old mid level VP in a Bank in US in DC area is retiring at 65 with two million in 401k/IRAs and a 1.5 million dollar home paid off. That's before any other savings. That 3.5 million would be shocking to a European for a bank VP to have. And if that bank VP dropped dead day one of retirement his wife and kids get it. My old boss with his rental and defined pension lives the high life but he is really passing on nothing much to next generation.

So we should all work like machines to plan for our deaths?

yes in fact. My parents did, they worked like dogs in Europe to get to the USA to have a better life for their kids. They would have been better off staying in long run for themselves. But they got here separately, met and raised 4 kids who all have grad degrees, who all got married, had kids and all bought houses and putting all the kids through college. I am only first generation American but I expect by time my kids have kids they will be summering in Hamptons, Skiing in Aspen, Going to Ivy League schools. Maybe be President of the United States or win American Idol or cure cancer who knows. But if my parents never left their country and met there and had us four kids would have set us back several generations.

Which of the 50+ countries did they come from? That makes a huge difference on whether or not they would have been better off.

Well I live in a two million dollar home and have a beach house and new cars in the driveway. Highly doubt my homeless 6th grade educated parents could have got me very far had they stayed in Europe. I say homeless as one was one of eight the other was one of five. Only the oldest son inherits house and rest must get out. My Mom got kicked out of home at 12. My Dad at 14. In the US got HS degrees at night, bought a house, raised four kids how is that possible in Europe it is not.

Instead they get cheap medical, can go on the dole I guess and sit in a pub drinking pints and smoking and dying young like all my uncles did.

It’s commendable that your parents and family have done so well in the US. But do you understand that not everybody wants to summer in the Hamptons or ski in Aspen? The fact that some people may be happier with less material wealth does not negate the fact that you are very happy with what you have. In fact, there are probably people on both sides of the Atlantic who would be happier if they could swap lives with each other. Nothing wrong with that.

If you tell a MC person in western Europe that they have to work longer hours for less benefits, they'd revolt. Americans work longer hours, and accept that we get less benefits, pay more for medical care and college. Not sure who is happier here.

How would it be less benefits? It would be significantly more pay.

It’s a nanny state so of course they are going to get upset if daddy takes something away. Even if they’d be better off financially with more money. The average European isn’t that bright or intellectually curious.

[Anonymous]

Sounds like a lot of you shouldn’t be working in an international company. There are differences. So what. If you can’t manage them, there are plenty of companies that are US-based only.

[Anonymous]

So you are complaining because it is harder to control your employees every waking moment and they are allowed to have a life outside of work?

Cry me a river.

And on the timing paternity leave to coincide with mandatory PTO, how is that any different than what lot of woman in the US do? Take full maternity leave, burn through PTO and then quit. Happens all day every day.

[Anonymous]

You all are talking about less benefits in the US, but it's not true when you're comparing white collar work. Plenty of companies in the US have maternity leave, 4-6 weeks of vacation, and good health insurance. I don't have platinum insurance at all, but I've never had medical bills. My last two childbirths were free (zero copay even). My cousin gave birth in a hospital in France with no air conditioning in late summer, no epidural (it's not clear to me why. This could have been her decision?) and shared a room afterwards. They kept telling her if she had a csection her husband wouldn't be allowed in, which panicked her.

And for those of you who want great benefits and want less pay in the US, there are jobs like those still available. Many school districts still have good health insurance, summers off, and less pay. Fed jobs and state jobs also used to have good insurance and leave in exchange for less pay. Or you could just take your higher pay in the US and purchase better insurance.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Work isn’t the most important thing in life. If you don’t know that now, you’ll likely realize it on your deathbed.

+1.

European work culture has it right.

Not if you want to actually earn money.

Incorrect. My entire family is in Europe and they make really good money. My H works for an international company and the European are getting paid very well. Americans are buried in debt, the net worth here is actually pretty low.

Exactly. Most Americans have been sold this BS that you have to hustle non-stop in order to make money because that's the only thing that matters in life. Europeans in general have a much better sense of balance and their lives on average are much better than those living in 4000 sq ft houses in the US

If you say so. I personally don’t want to work 5 fewer hours a week so I can cram my entire family into a tiny house. Make fun of large American homes all you want, but they are way more comfortable, and pretty much every European would buy a larger home if they could afford it.

But ask them if they'd give up their work life balance for that bigger paycheck and house, and most would say no. Look at the happiest countries in the world. US doesn't even break the T20. Countries with generous leave make the Top20.

Eh those studies are biased and heavily dependent on how people consider happiness and what their standard is.

so, Americans have more sh&+ but they are still unhappy, work too much, and complain a lot compared to those other countries. Got it.

Don't forget fat. And all that sh* is poor quality. Working 10 hours, commuting 2 more so you can buy polyester at Macy's and overpriced diabetes medication. Don't get me started on the quality of the housing.

Have you even known any Europeans personally? Because I have and I don’t get the impression their lifestyle is much, if at all, better. I’ll give you they eat healthier food and there are fewer overweight people, but I myself am not friends with anyone who is grossly overweight and most people I know eat a healthy diet.

My European friends struggle with the same things as Americans and appear to have a lot less disposable income. What stands out the most is that two white collar professionals have a very limited income that doesn’t allow for outsourcing of any kind. So while they may have an extra 2 weeks of vacation than I do, they can’t afford to go out to dinner as a family, spend their extra time cleaning their house, and vacation by traveling to less expensive locations like Spain. My lifestyle looks opulent compared to theirs and almost embarrassing when they ask me questions about it.

It’s also anecdotal but my European friends appear to have a lot less flexibility at work. I get the impression it’s much more clock in/out mentality and the need to meet every rule, but not a common sense approach to work.

A lot of the advantages they have you could also apply here. You could live in a 1,100 square foot home and commute to work via bus or bike. You could shop at farmers markets and buy less stuff. Here you have the choice.

You have no idea what you’re talking about. I am European who grew up there and whose sister still lives in Italy. My sister and her husband work and make a lot less than I do, but they take a couple of vacations every year, have a house, two cars. They also have an amazing health system, much better food, they come home for a couple of hours every day for lunch, spend a lot more time with their child.

No, they don’t hire someone to clean their house, or to mow their lawn, but it’s hardly a justification for the hamper wheel we have here. I lived and worked in both, you make more money here but at a great cost.

Also lived in Western Europe (and at one point Eastern). Agree with this sentiment completely.

The capitalist mindset is very focused on false “choice,” IMHO. And it’s not made anyone any happier or healthier in this country.

But downside they are stealing from their children and grandchildren to fund the lifestyle. Meaning my old boss in Germany with Free Healthcare, a great pension from Work, beach house, an amazing rent controlled house has great cash flow but nearly all his assets die with him.

The Pension stops, rent control apt stops, his beach house is actually a family house owned by MIL which is communal so cant pass to his kid. He only had one kid.

In the US He would own at time of death, his own primary home mortgage free, his beach house mortgage free, had a large amount of 401k/IRA/Savings Account money save due to higher income. Maybe 2-4 cars or boat. The US is focused on Assets. Plus in Europe next to US the percentage of people who own stocks and real estate is way less. The 16 years has been a massive run up in Real Estate and Stock Prices. My relatives in Europe for instance missed the boat on that as well did a lot of my older european co-workers.

A plan old mid level VP in a Bank in US in DC area is retiring at 65 with two million in 401k/IRAs and a 1.5 million dollar home paid off. That's before any other savings. That 3.5 million would be shocking to a European for a bank VP to have. And if that bank VP dropped dead day one of retirement his wife and kids get it. My old boss with his rental and defined pension lives the high life but he is really passing on nothing much to next generation.

So we should all work like machines to plan for our deaths?

yes in fact. My parents did, they worked like dogs in Europe to get to the USA to have a better life for their kids. They would have been better off staying in long run for themselves. But they got here separately, met and raised 4 kids who all have grad degrees, who all got married, had kids and all bought houses and putting all the kids through college. I am only first generation American but I expect by time my kids have kids they will be summering in Hamptons, Skiing in Aspen, Going to Ivy League schools. Maybe be President of the United States or win American Idol or cure cancer who knows. But if my parents never left their country and met there and had us four kids would have set us back several generations.

Which of the 50+ countries did they come from? That makes a huge difference on whether or not they would have been better off.

Well I live in a two million dollar home and have a beach house and new cars in the driveway. Highly doubt my homeless 6th grade educated parents could have got me very far had they stayed in Europe. I say homeless as one was one of eight the other was one of five. Only the oldest son inherits house and rest must get out. My Mom got kicked out of home at 12. My Dad at 14. In the US got HS degrees at night, bought a house, raised four kids how is that possible in Europe it is not.

Instead they get cheap medical, can go on the dole I guess and sit in a pub drinking pints and smoking and dying young like all my uncles did.

It’s commendable that your parents and family have done so well in the US. But do you understand that not everybody wants to summer in the Hamptons or ski in Aspen? The fact that some people may be happier with less material wealth does not negate the fact that you are very happy with what you have. In fact, there are probably people on both sides of the Atlantic who would be happier if they could swap lives with each other. Nothing wrong with that.

If you tell a MC person in western Europe that they have to work longer hours for less benefits, they'd revolt. Americans work longer hours, and accept that we get less benefits, pay more for medical care and college. Not sure who is happier here.

How would it be less benefits? It would be significantly more pay.

It’s a nanny state so of course they are going to get upset if daddy takes something away. Even if they’d be better off financially with more money. The average European isn’t that bright or intellectually curious.

If that pay goes directly towards healthcare costs, then what’s the point? And I wouldn’t want more pay if it means less vacation time.