Is there anything they can’t ruin?

[Anonymous]

OP I hope you’re looking for a job. The job market is better if you currently have a job versus those who are unemployed.

The conditions you’re describing are unusual unless you work for a high profile tech company where you will spend 3-5 years and then leave with vested RSUs.

Federal jobs are no longer good jobs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Remote job gone and replaced with 3 hours of commuting (and that’s early, avoiding peak traffic) AWS gone, well fine that wasn’t going to work for me with RTO anyway so I had already ditched that. Now they are talking about rigid start and end times, and if they have everyone coming and going at once 9-5 that is going to add at least another hour at each end just getting in and out of the building and garage and having to travel during peak traffic. and I’m going to just have to tell my teens they are on their own now because I am basically unavailable, and their dad is not in a position to help that much either. I might have to move in with my coworker during the week. Giving boarding school a second thought for my youngest. Maybe sleeping in my car? I don’t know. Sell my house, buy an RV and park next to work.

So what’s coming next? Is there anything they can’t/won’t touch? Health insurance? The ability to take a single day of sick leave without medical documentation?

Just get the RIFs over with please.

Op how would you handle this if it were 2019?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Remote job gone and replaced with 3 hours of commuting (and that’s early, avoiding peak traffic) AWS gone, well fine that wasn’t going to work for me with RTO anyway so I had already ditched that. Now they are talking about rigid start and end times, and if they have everyone coming and going at once 9-5 that is going to add at least another hour at each end just getting in and out of the building and garage and having to travel during peak traffic. and I’m going to just have to tell my teens they are on their own now because I am basically unavailable, and their dad is not in a position to help that much either. I might have to move in with my coworker during the week. Giving boarding school a second thought for my youngest. Maybe sleeping in my car? I don’t know. Sell my house, buy an RV and park next to work.

So what’s coming next? Is there anything they can’t/won’t touch? Health insurance? The ability to take a single day of sick leave without medical documentation?

Just get the RIFs over with please.

Op how would you handle this if it were 2019?

I’m not sure what you are getting at. In 2019 I worked in an office that was 25 minutes ride by express bus. Since then, I was hired fully remote into another office that is way out. I would never have taken the job if I knew we’d be going in 5 days a week. Hybrid would be doable, sustainable, and keep people connected to the office, but they aren’t allowing it, though most people at my current office were already hybrid before 2019.

There is no time machine back to 2019. Even if I got hired back at my old office, the bus route that made it doable has been eliminated and the commute time much longer.

TLDR Going back to what things were like in 2019 would be great compared with what it’s like now, but that world no longer exists. This is something new and it is doing a great job torturing parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP I hope you’re looking for a job. The job market is better if you currently have a job versus those who are unemployed.

The conditions you’re describing are unusual unless you work for a high profile tech company where you will spend 3-5 years and then leave with vested RSUs.

Federal jobs are no longer good jobs.

Agreed, I’ve stuck by mainly because I have a better situation than OP, but if I were in their shoes, I would definitely be looking. How are you doing, OP? I’m sorry about your situation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I hope you’re looking for a job. The job market is better if you currently have a job versus those who are unemployed.

The conditions you’re describing are unusual unless you work for a high profile tech company where you will spend 3-5 years and then leave with vested RSUs.

Federal jobs are no longer good jobs.

Agreed, I’ve stuck by mainly because I have a better situation than OP, but if I were in their shoes, I would definitely be looking. How are you doing, OP? I’m sorry about your situation.

I am looking, but with the current conditions not optimistic about finding anything else even close to my current salary. Since I still have kids at home, I will have to suck it up and hope I don’t drop dead from stress or die on the beltway until I can find something else or the kids are out of high school, whichever comes first. And I hope I can regain physical health when this is over because it is deteriorating rapidly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone who works in Wall Street has set hours. Whats big deal. Same at big banks same in retail, hospitals and restaurants or cops or fireman, what is big deal having set work hours

Well someone working on Wall Street is much better compensated and it’s a completely different type of job.

Nurses also work mostly standing up. Should we ask bankers to all work standing up? Perhaps get rid of their desks? Afterall, nurses do it, right?

Seriously are you dense as to why jobs are different?

You do know bankers stand most of day. I was running meeting to meeting, client to client, going on business trips, doing presentations, speaking at conferences. And some buildings are huge and banks have multiple office buildings. And it often was 12 hours of this. Plus running for commuter train, walking through penn station, catching subway, walking to office and then back every day. Was a lot of walking.

In fact Blooomberg headquarters they dont even have chairs in conference room to keep it moving quickly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t get it. This was what it was like when I had my kids in the late 2000s.

We all agree that you truly don’t get it, PP.

+1. It was like this when I raised my kids, born in 2002 and 2004. And I ended up feeling like a crappy employee, a crappy spouse and a crappy parent. It wasn’t good for my kids. It wasn’t good for my mental health. If I close my eyes, I can still panic of last minute snow days and kids waking up with fevers in my gut. Moving into a federal 3 telework days a week job with 9:30 to 2:30 core hours (but can take a half hour lunch 11:30-1:30) was a game changer. Just because I did it for ten years doesn’t mean women coming after me should have to. It’s better for employees, kids, and families if a job can allow telework and flex schedule. And it’s true that not all jobs can have telework. But maybe job flexibilities, like job availability and job pay, are something people should consider when accepting a job or choosing a career. And the “I suffered so you should too” attitude is, frankly, gross. How about “I suffered, and I don’t wish that on my own kids and their peers as they enter the workforce”?

I completely agree with you but I also think some people are just pointing out that people like OP are screaming bloody murder after two months of living like many people lived their entire careers. Our country is in a scary place and we are all going to need some resilience to get through a tough time. In my own family, we’ve been affected but we are doing our best to keep our heads up and enjoy life despite being put out by our less flexible schedule. Perhaps the difference is we do not see this as a forever thing, just a time to get through.

the gaslighting is sad. You haven't had this your entire career. You haven't been told sunday night that your new schedule forever after is 10-6p starting Monday. You haven't been through any of this.

Had it every Sunday night for eight years in my old job, I often travel to different cities on short notice.

Also worked OT all the time and vacations canceled last minute a lot.

My friend in IT went on tons of business trips around 40-45 a year. He was told not to return home at end of business trip last minute a lot. He fly to Phoenix lets say for week and often Friday at 4 pm he find out he is needed in San Fran on Sunday night due to new system issue. He would not have time to fly home to NY.

And when I worked home in Consulting if unassigned which was very rare often Sunday night I was told keep work phone on, keep email on and back then they even had my home phone and wifes phone number. I recall Sunday night at nine pm, I plugged in my cell phone upstairs to charge. Then around 930 pm about to check work lap top email. All at once my home phone rings and is Partner mad at me, he called my cell at 926 pm I did not answer, then emailed me at 926 then called my home phone at 930 said he was about to call wifes cell phone and then my MIL if he had to. I had to be on 7am flight to Mlwaukee. People dont pay people to do nothing. I was noncharge the next week and I needed to be booked. Off I went. I got yelled at never leave phone again

Big deal that’s why it is called a job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone who works in Wall Street has set hours. Whats big deal. Same at big banks same in retail, hospitals and restaurants or cops or fireman, what is big deal having set work hours

Well someone working on Wall Street is much better compensated and it’s a completely different type of job.

Nurses also work mostly standing up. Should we ask bankers to all work standing up? Perhaps get rid of their desks? Afterall, nurses do it, right?

Seriously are you dense as to why jobs are different?

You do know bankers stand most of day. I was running meeting to meeting, client to client, going on business trips, doing presentations, speaking at conferences. And some buildings are huge and banks have multiple office buildings. And it often was 12 hours of this. Plus running for commuter train, walking through penn station, catching subway, walking to office and then back every day. Was a lot of walking.

In fact Blooomberg headquarters they dont even have chairs in conference room to keep it moving quickly.

DP. Since you insist upon digging in your heels to be contrary, I will make this simpler for you:

Since some people have to stand up at their jobs, should all people have to stand up at their jobs?

Since some people have to work outdoors with no AC, should all people have to work outdoors with no AC?

Since some people’s work requires being plugged into a headset during specific shifts (like a call center) should all workers be required to be plugged into a headset during specific hours, just to make it fair?

Since some people have to handle physical paper files in an office file room, should all people have to work in an office even if their job requirements never involve handling physical files?

And finally, just stop it about bankers. We know they have desks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t get it. This was what it was like when I had my kids in the late 2000s.

We all agree that you truly don’t get it, PP.

+1. It was like this when I raised my kids, born in 2002 and 2004. And I ended up feeling like a crappy employee, a crappy spouse and a crappy parent. It wasn’t good for my kids. It wasn’t good for my mental health. If I close my eyes, I can still panic of last minute snow days and kids waking up with fevers in my gut. Moving into a federal 3 telework days a week job with 9:30 to 2:30 core hours (but can take a half hour lunch 11:30-1:30) was a game changer. Just because I did it for ten years doesn’t mean women coming after me should have to. It’s better for employees, kids, and families if a job can allow telework and flex schedule. And it’s true that not all jobs can have telework. But maybe job flexibilities, like job availability and job pay, are something people should consider when accepting a job or choosing a career. And the “I suffered so you should too” attitude is, frankly, gross. How about “I suffered, and I don’t wish that on my own kids and their peers as they enter the workforce”?

I completely agree with you but I also think some people are just pointing out that people like OP are screaming bloody murder after two months of living like many people lived their entire careers. Our country is in a scary place and we are all going to need some resilience to get through a tough time. In my own family, we’ve been affected but we are doing our best to keep our heads up and enjoy life despite being put out by our less flexible schedule. Perhaps the difference is we do not see this as a forever thing, just a time to get through.

the gaslighting is sad. You haven't had this your entire career. You haven't been told sunday night that your new schedule forever after is 10-6p starting Monday. You haven't been through any of this.

Had it every Sunday night for eight years in my old job, I often travel to different cities on short notice.

Also worked OT all the time and vacations canceled last minute a lot.

My friend in IT went on tons of business trips around 40-45 a year. He was told not to return home at end of business trip last minute a lot. He fly to Phoenix lets say for week and often Friday at 4 pm he find out he is needed in San Fran on Sunday night due to new system issue. He would not have time to fly home to NY.

And when I worked home in Consulting if unassigned which was very rare often Sunday night I was told keep work phone on, keep email on and back then they even had my home phone and wifes phone number. I recall Sunday night at nine pm, I plugged in my cell phone upstairs to charge. Then around 930 pm about to check work lap top email. All at once my home phone rings and is Partner mad at me, he called my cell at 926 pm I did not answer, then emailed me at 926 then called my home phone at 930 said he was about to call wifes cell phone and then my MIL if he had to. I had to be on 7am flight to Mlwaukee. People dont pay people to do nothing. I was noncharge the next week and I needed to be booked. Off I went. I got yelled at never leave phone again

Big deal that’s why it is called a job.

You sound like a very stupid 70 year old.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Remote job gone and replaced with 3 hours of commuting (and that’s early, avoiding peak traffic) AWS gone, well fine that wasn’t going to work for me with RTO anyway so I had already ditched that. Now they are talking about rigid start and end times, and if they have everyone coming and going at once 9-5 that is going to add at least another hour at each end just getting in and out of the building and garage and having to travel during peak traffic. and I’m going to just have to tell my teens they are on their own now because I am basically unavailable, and their dad is not in a position to help that much either. I might have to move in with my coworker during the week. Giving boarding school a second thought for my youngest. Maybe sleeping in my car? I don’t know. Sell my house, buy an RV and park next to work.

So what’s coming next? Is there anything they can’t/won’t touch? Health insurance? The ability to take a single day of sick leave without medical documentation?

Just get the RIFs over with please.

Op how would you handle this if it were 2019?

I’m not sure what you are getting at. In 2019 I worked in an office that was 25 minutes ride by express bus. Since then, I was hired fully remote into another office that is way out. I would never have taken the job if I knew we’d be going in 5 days a week. Hybrid would be doable, sustainable, and keep people connected to the office, but they aren’t allowing it, though most people at my current office were already hybrid before 2019.

There is no time machine back to 2019. Even if I got hired back at my old office, the bus route that made it doable has been eliminated and the commute time much longer.

TLDR Going back to what things were like in 2019 would be great compared with what it’s like now, but that world no longer exists. This is something new and it is doing a great job torturing parents.

What hasn't changed is that companies have always had the ability to change working conditions/location based on need. Employees have always had the ability to say the change doesn't work for them and to find new employement. OP--if you don't like the changes, it's time to start looking for a new job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Remote job gone and replaced with 3 hours of commuting (and that’s early, avoiding peak traffic) AWS gone, well fine that wasn’t going to work for me with RTO anyway so I had already ditched that. Now they are talking about rigid start and end times, and if they have everyone coming and going at once 9-5 that is going to add at least another hour at each end just getting in and out of the building and garage and having to travel during peak traffic. and I’m going to just have to tell my teens they are on their own now because I am basically unavailable, and their dad is not in a position to help that much either. I might have to move in with my coworker during the week. Giving boarding school a second thought for my youngest. Maybe sleeping in my car? I don’t know. Sell my house, buy an RV and park next to work.

So what’s coming next? Is there anything they can’t/won’t touch? Health insurance? The ability to take a single day of sick leave without medical documentation?

Just get the RIFs over with please.

Op how would you handle this if it were 2019?

I’m not sure what you are getting at. In 2019 I worked in an office that was 25 minutes ride by express bus. Since then, I was hired fully remote into another office that is way out. I would never have taken the job if I knew we’d be going in 5 days a week. Hybrid would be doable, sustainable, and keep people connected to the office, but they aren’t allowing it, though most people at my current office were already hybrid before 2019.

There is no time machine back to 2019. Even if I got hired back at my old office, the bus route that made it doable has been eliminated and the commute time much longer.

TLDR Going back to what things were like in 2019 would be great compared with what it’s like now, but that world no longer exists. This is something new and it is doing a great job torturing parents.

What hasn't changed is that companies have always had the ability to change working conditions/location based on need. Employees have always had the ability to say the change doesn't work for them and to find new employement. OP--if you don't like the changes, it's time to start looking for a new job.

Well they did not establish a “need”.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is why people used to live close in. Now they want to live way outside the beltway and also keep a downtown job. It’s a choice.

Choices made when there was sanity and everyone accepted that many jobs could be completed remotely. This is all this admin's BS to get government workers to be miserable and quit. They have said it out loud.

Anyone on this thread acting like this is fair or in any way like things were 10 or 20 years ago when we had not tried and vetted work from home and realized it worked fine/well for many positions is just a jerk or a troll.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Remote job gone and replaced with 3 hours of commuting (and that’s early, avoiding peak traffic) AWS gone, well fine that wasn’t going to work for me with RTO anyway so I had already ditched that. Now they are talking about rigid start and end times, and if they have everyone coming and going at once 9-5 that is going to add at least another hour at each end just getting in and out of the building and garage and having to travel during peak traffic. and I’m going to just have to tell my teens they are on their own now because I am basically unavailable, and their dad is not in a position to help that much either. I might have to move in with my coworker during the week. Giving boarding school a second thought for my youngest. Maybe sleeping in my car? I don’t know. Sell my house, buy an RV and park next to work.

So what’s coming next? Is there anything they can’t/won’t touch? Health insurance? The ability to take a single day of sick leave without medical documentation?

Just get the RIFs over with please.

Op how would you handle this if it were 2019?

I’m not sure what you are getting at. In 2019 I worked in an office that was 25 minutes ride by express bus. Since then, I was hired fully remote into another office that is way out. I would never have taken the job if I knew we’d be going in 5 days a week. Hybrid would be doable, sustainable, and keep people connected to the office, but they aren’t allowing it, though most people at my current office were already hybrid before 2019.

There is no time machine back to 2019. Even if I got hired back at my old office, the bus route that made it doable has been eliminated and the commute time much longer.

TLDR Going back to what things were like in 2019 would be great compared with what it’s like now, but that world no longer exists. This is something new and it is doing a great job torturing parents.

What hasn't changed is that companies have always had the ability to change working conditions/location based on need. Employees have always had the ability to say the change doesn't work for them and to find new employement. OP--if you don't like the changes, it's time to start looking for a new job.

This isn't based on a "need". It's based on cruelty. So shut up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I hope you’re looking for a job. The job market is better if you currently have a job versus those who are unemployed.

The conditions you’re describing are unusual unless you work for a high profile tech company where you will spend 3-5 years and then leave with vested RSUs.

Federal jobs are no longer good jobs.

Agreed, I’ve stuck by mainly because I have a better situation than OP, but if I were in their shoes, I would definitely be looking. How are you doing, OP? I’m sorry about your situation.

I am looking, but with the current conditions not optimistic about finding anything else even close to my current salary. Since I still have kids at home, I will have to suck it up and hope I don’t drop dead from stress or die on the beltway until I can find something else or the kids are out of high school, whichever comes first. And I hope I can regain physical health when this is over because it is deteriorating rapidly.

Keep trying. It might take a year or more, or require relocating. Jobs are out there. Very few employers are 5 days in the office for laptop workers, and if they are they will pay much, much more.

[Anonymous]

Hit the streets. General strike starting Nov 5.

It’s not hyperbole to say our and our children’s future freedom and quality of life are dangerously threatened.