How the hell is anyone supposed to get into college now?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Like so many straight A students who were chief school newspaper editor, captain of a varsity sports team, volunteering, and more who can't even get to VA Tech. I don't know what people who get into schools like Michigan or the Ivy Leagues are doing in high school.

My daughter's friend who got into Yale was an Asian male with a very high wGPA who won Science Olympiad competitions and is an advanced string player.

Straight A doesn't mean anything, OP, you should know this. There is a world's difference between an A in a regular classs and an A in an AP class. Kids who get into the top colleges have 10+ APs, have a national level EC, etc. Your newpaper editing and team captainship worked a generation ago, but not today.

This is sounds exhausting. Kids have no time to be kids.

I am 44, and in my European country, high school was a stressful workathon culminating in one heck of a national exam week. I was so stressed out I couldn't eat on the first day of national exams. But that's nowhere near the worst. My cousins come from a country in Asia known for its teen suicide rate due to exam failure. Over there, when school ends for the day, the kids go to afternoon prep schools to cram. I know *elementary school kids* who had tutors to prepare for admission into the most prestigious afternoon prep schools!!! Separate from their regular school! HOW CRAZY IS THAT?!?

All to say: don't ever believe the US has it bad. I promise you, even for the kids who take grades seriously... it's still a layabout's paradise.

Huh? My NYC sibling had a tutor for her 2yo to prep for preschool admissions to get into the right preschool that would line up for the right elementary. That was over 20 years ago. She had two kids - one ended up graduating from Wash U and is unemployed. The other is at an Ivy.

One of my kids had a tutor by elementary. All had tutors in high school and SAT prep. All took multiple APs, as early as 9th grade. The thing about US education isn’t that it’s laid back - it’s that it’s very individual. It’s a huge country and getting into the top 10-15 schools is very hard - but no one will force you to do those things. There are a lot of less competitive options and that’s where most of the laid back kids will end up.

And yet mine and many others are in ivies, unhooked , and got into the "top" preK and elementary, and later magnet high school, based on testing with no tutor and no prep. Rose to the top. There are naturally intelligent , self-disciplined motivated and focused kids out there. The ivies are chock full of them. Why would any parent have their kid in a school they only could survive with tutoring?

+100

My unhooked kid is headed to an Ivy. You could tell from when he was little. We never tutored or test prepped and he was self-motivated—-but frankly never had to study or struggle like other kids.

Next we will be hearing about first chairs at MCYO who never practice. Please. There exist prodigies for sure, and I've met some. Nowhere close to fill top 5, much less top 20 schools.

The PP is speaking of not needing to study as much as other kids and being highly slef motivated at school not music prodigies. The ivies are filled with naturally bright students who sailed through high school without tutors and aced the SATs and APs in the hardest classes. The vast majority of them were absolutely standout 1-2 kids in their high schools, not counting the mega donors or athletes or other big hooks. Well over half there are unhooked and were superstars in their high school. The adjustment that most will just be around average at the ivy can be hard. It is a significant mental toll on some.

The brilliant kids I know study most of the time, typically more than average kids. However, they study much harder material, so they perform at a much higher level.

I know a kid who won a silver medal at IPHO as a HS sophomore. It's no secret that he studies all day long, he will tell you this. I don't think he has a tutor in an ordinary sense, but he certainly has a lot of support. You don't get to that level on your own, just like you are not winning the Menuhin by being self-taught.

So, yes, these kids don't need to study much to get a 5 at AP, but they need to study just as much to go beyond that.

I wish brilliant lazy kids were more sought after but I don't think this is the case.

Not in my house. It's funny--every year I told my sons when they were screwing around 'hey- next year you won't be able to do this, things are really going to ramp up'. I said this going into their private HS and every year...including 'Junior year is no joke. You aren't going to have time.' My husband always was telling them they weren't doing any of the study stuff for ACT blah, blah...

My youngest just said to me when I warned him about how hard Junior year was going to be "you always say that". Oldest graduate with straight As and is headed to an Ivy next year. Younger brother also has straight As and also 5s AP exams.

The older one does study more than the younger one ever has (barely see him study), but nothing compared to peers.

I am at a job with a huge amount of attrition because it is production based, critical thinking and a lot of writing. My friend's husband asked why I never work voluntary overtime to get stuff done and how do I have so much free time when his wife can barely hang on.

We have great memories in my family. We absorb info fast. Good critical thinking skills. Read fast, but thorough. High processing speed, etc.

At my dad's funeral (organic chemist), his friends were joking about my dad 'the party guy'. They said he would come into the lab and tell them ---get out, let's have some fun--while they struggled. They said 'that son-of-a-b*ch was a genius. Never had to study, etc.' lol

This is easy for many kids. Some of those kids use the time to ramp up. They are performing at much higher level than your kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Like so many straight A students who were chief school newspaper editor, captain of a varsity sports team, volunteering, and more who can't even get to VA Tech. I don't know what people who get into schools like Michigan or the Ivy Leagues are doing in high school.

My daughter's friend who got into Yale was an Asian male with a very high wGPA who won Science Olympiad competitions and is an advanced string player.

Straight A doesn't mean anything, OP, you should know this. There is a world's difference between an A in a regular classs and an A in an AP class. Kids who get into the top colleges have 10+ APs, have a national level EC, etc. Your newpaper editing and team captainship worked a generation ago, but not today.

This is sounds exhausting. Kids have no time to be kids.

They have a ton of time. It's really not that unachievable. We have a ton of college options. If you don't want to be competitive for the top ones, tap out and go to a decent one.

Wrong- kids do not have A TON of time when doing sports and very vigorous classes.

My kid doesn't get home til 7:30 p.m. 5 days per week and has 4 AP's. Practice on Saturday morning til noon. I just can't (and won't) push them to do more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Like so many straight A students who were chief school newspaper editor, captain of a varsity sports team, volunteering, and more who can't even get to VA Tech. I don't know what people who get into schools like Michigan or the Ivy Leagues are doing in high school.

My daughter's friend who got into Yale was an Asian male with a very high wGPA who won Science Olympiad competitions and is an advanced string player.

Straight A doesn't mean anything, OP, you should know this. There is a world's difference between an A in a regular classs and an A in an AP class. Kids who get into the top colleges have 10+ APs, have a national level EC, etc. Your newpaper editing and team captainship worked a generation ago, but not today.

This is sounds exhausting. Kids have no time to be kids.

I am 44, and in my European country, high school was a stressful workathon culminating in one heck of a national exam week. I was so stressed out I couldn't eat on the first day of national exams. But that's nowhere near the worst. My cousins come from a country in Asia known for its teen suicide rate due to exam failure. Over there, when school ends for the day, the kids go to afternoon prep schools to cram. I know *elementary school kids* who had tutors to prepare for admission into the most prestigious afternoon prep schools!!! Separate from their regular school! HOW CRAZY IS THAT?!?

All to say: don't ever believe the US has it bad. I promise you, even for the kids who take grades seriously... it's still a layabout's paradise.

Huh? My NYC sibling had a tutor for her 2yo to prep for preschool admissions to get into the right preschool that would line up for the right elementary. That was over 20 years ago. She had two kids - one ended up graduating from Wash U and is unemployed. The other is at an Ivy.

One of my kids had a tutor by elementary. All had tutors in high school and SAT prep. All took multiple APs, as early as 9th grade. The thing about US education isn’t that it’s laid back - it’s that it’s very individual. It’s a huge country and getting into the top 10-15 schools is very hard - but no one will force you to do those things. There are a lot of less competitive options and that’s where most of the laid back kids will end up.

And yet mine and many others are in ivies, unhooked , and got into the "top" preK and elementary, and later magnet high school, based on testing with no tutor and no prep. Rose to the top. There are naturally intelligent , self-disciplined motivated and focused kids out there. The ivies are chock full of them. Why would any parent have their kid in a school they only could survive with tutoring?

+100

My unhooked kid is headed to an Ivy. You could tell from when he was little. We never tutored or test prepped and he was self-motivated—-but frankly never had to study or struggle like other kids.

Next we will be hearing about first chairs at MCYO who never practice. Please. There exist prodigies for sure, and I've met some. Nowhere close to fill top 5, much less top 20 schools.

The PP is speaking of not needing to study as much as other kids and being highly slef motivated at school not music prodigies. The ivies are filled with naturally bright students who sailed through high school without tutors and aced the SATs and APs in the hardest classes. The vast majority of them were absolutely standout 1-2 kids in their high schools, not counting the mega donors or athletes or other big hooks. Well over half there are unhooked and were superstars in their high school. The adjustment that most will just be around average at the ivy can be hard. It is a significant mental toll on some.

The brilliant kids I know study most of the time, typically more than average kids. However, they study much harder material, so they perform at a much higher level.

I know a kid who won a silver medal at IPHO as a HS sophomore. It's no secret that he studies all day long, he will tell you this. I don't think he has a tutor in an ordinary sense, but he certainly has a lot of support. You don't get to that level on your own, just like you are not winning the Menuhin by being self-taught.

So, yes, these kids don't need to study much to get a 5 at AP, but they need to study just as much to go beyond that.

I wish brilliant lazy kids were more sought after but I don't think this is the case.

Not in my house. It's funny--every year I told my sons when they were screwing around 'hey- next year you won't be able to do this, things are really going to ramp up'. I said this going into their private HS and every year...including 'Junior year is no joke. You aren't going to have time.' My husband always was telling them they weren't doing any of the study stuff for ACT blah, blah...

My youngest just said to me when I warned him about how hard Junior year was going to be "you always say that". Oldest graduate with straight As and is headed to an Ivy next year. Younger brother also has straight As and also 5s AP exams.

The older one does study more than the younger one ever has (barely see him study), but nothing compared to peers.

I am at a job with a huge amount of attrition because it is production based, critical thinking and a lot of writing. My friend's husband asked why I never work voluntary overtime to get stuff done and how do I have so much free time when his wife can barely hang on.

We have great memories in my family. We absorb info fast. Good critical thinking skills. Read fast, but thorough. High processing speed, etc.

At my dad's funeral (organic chemist), his friends were joking about my dad 'the party guy'. They said he would come into the lab and tell them ---get out, let's have some fun--while they struggled. They said 'that son-of-a-b*ch was a genius. Never had to study, etc.' lol

How do you know how much your kids' peers are studying?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Like so many straight A students who were chief school newspaper editor, captain of a varsity sports team, volunteering, and more who can't even get to VA Tech. I don't know what people who get into schools like Michigan or the Ivy Leagues are doing in high school.

My daughter's friend who got into Yale was an Asian male with a very high wGPA who won Science Olympiad competitions and is an advanced string player.

Straight A doesn't mean anything, OP, you should know this. There is a world's difference between an A in a regular classs and an A in an AP class. Kids who get into the top colleges have 10+ APs, have a national level EC, etc. Your newpaper editing and team captainship worked a generation ago, but not today.

This is sounds exhausting. Kids have no time to be kids.

I am 44, and in my European country, high school was a stressful workathon culminating in one heck of a national exam week. I was so stressed out I couldn't eat on the first day of national exams. But that's nowhere near the worst. My cousins come from a country in Asia known for its teen suicide rate due to exam failure. Over there, when school ends for the day, the kids go to afternoon prep schools to cram. I know *elementary school kids* who had tutors to prepare for admission into the most prestigious afternoon prep schools!!! Separate from their regular school! HOW CRAZY IS THAT?!?

All to say: don't ever believe the US has it bad. I promise you, even for the kids who take grades seriously... it's still a layabout's paradise.

Huh? My NYC sibling had a tutor for her 2yo to prep for preschool admissions to get into the right preschool that would line up for the right elementary. That was over 20 years ago. She had two kids - one ended up graduating from Wash U and is unemployed. The other is at an Ivy.

One of my kids had a tutor by elementary. All had tutors in high school and SAT prep. All took multiple APs, as early as 9th grade. The thing about US education isn’t that it’s laid back - it’s that it’s very individual. It’s a huge country and getting into the top 10-15 schools is very hard - but no one will force you to do those things. There are a lot of less competitive options and that’s where most of the laid back kids will end up.

And yet mine and many others are in ivies, unhooked , and got into the "top" preK and elementary, and later magnet high school, based on testing with no tutor and no prep. Rose to the top. There are naturally intelligent , self-disciplined motivated and focused kids out there. The ivies are chock full of them. Why would any parent have their kid in a school they only could survive with tutoring?

+100

My unhooked kid is headed to an Ivy. You could tell from when he was little. We never tutored or test prepped and he was self-motivated—-but frankly never had to study or struggle like other kids.

Next we will be hearing about first chairs at MCYO who never practice. Please. There exist prodigies for sure, and I've met some. Nowhere close to fill top 5, much less top 20 schools.

The PP is speaking of not needing to study as much as other kids and being highly slef motivated at school not music prodigies. The ivies are filled with naturally bright students who sailed through high school without tutors and aced the SATs and APs in the hardest classes. The vast majority of them were absolutely standout 1-2 kids in their high schools, not counting the mega donors or athletes or other big hooks. Well over half there are unhooked and were superstars in their high school. The adjustment that most will just be around average at the ivy can be hard. It is a significant mental toll on some.

The brilliant kids I know study most of the time, typically more than average kids. However, they study much harder material, so they perform at a much higher level.

I know a kid who won a silver medal at IPHO as a HS sophomore. It's no secret that he studies all day long, he will tell you this. I don't think he has a tutor in an ordinary sense, but he certainly has a lot of support. You don't get to that level on your own, just like you are not winning the Menuhin by being self-taught.

So, yes, these kids don't need to study much to get a 5 at AP, but they need to study just as much to go beyond that.

I wish brilliant lazy kids were more sought after but I don't think this is the case.

Not in my house. It's funny--every year I told my sons when they were screwing around 'hey- next year you won't be able to do this, things are really going to ramp up'. I said this going into their private HS and every year...including 'Junior year is no joke. You aren't going to have time.' My husband always was telling them they weren't doing any of the study stuff for ACT blah, blah...

My youngest just said to me when I warned him about how hard Junior year was going to be "you always say that". Oldest graduate with straight As and is headed to an Ivy next year. Younger brother also has straight As and also 5s AP exams.

The older one does study more than the younger one ever has (barely see him study), but nothing compared to peers.

I am at a job with a huge amount of attrition because it is production based, critical thinking and a lot of writing. My friend's husband asked why I never work voluntary overtime to get stuff done and how do I have so much free time when his wife can barely hang on.

We have great memories in my family. We absorb info fast. Good critical thinking skills. Read fast, but thorough. High processing speed, etc.

At my dad's funeral (organic chemist), his friends were joking about my dad 'the party guy'. They said he would come into the lab and tell them ---get out, let's have some fun--while they struggled. They said 'that son-of-a-b*ch was a genius. Never had to study, etc.' lol

Oh, brother. The only skill this passage demonstrates is ego stroking. Yikes!

Maybe your the others have less time because they invest in other things or are more productive. What kind of hubris enables you to think you can quantify someone else's acumen or productivity when you hardly know them. A little humility would be useful.

My public magnet kids are sometimes fast, but sometimes take more time wrestling with concepts or going deep. They have asked for help and gotten tutoring when needed. It has led to a more comprehensive understanding than when they zip through. Fast or effortless is not better. There are rewards for asking questions and trying to view from different angles. I'm all for that. Also, my kids are artists, and that creativity adds to the mix as well. Both at T10s.

[Anonymous]

ROTC scholarship

[Anonymous]

So the to answer your question OP from reading some of these replies: be well off, come from a family of geniuses, take a boatload of APs, be the very best at your ECs, and study your butt off. Or don’t buy into the T20 or bust mentality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Like so many straight A students who were chief school newspaper editor, captain of a varsity sports team, volunteering, and more who can't even get to VA Tech. I don't know what people who get into schools like Michigan or the Ivy Leagues are doing in high school.

My daughter's friend who got into Yale was an Asian male with a very high wGPA who won Science Olympiad competitions and is an advanced string player.

Straight A doesn't mean anything, OP, you should know this. There is a world's difference between an A in a regular classs and an A in an AP class. Kids who get into the top colleges have 10+ APs, have a national level EC, etc. Your newpaper editing and team captainship worked a generation ago, but not today.

This is sounds exhausting. Kids have no time to be kids.

I am 44, and in my European country, high school was a stressful workathon culminating in one heck of a national exam week. I was so stressed out I couldn't eat on the first day of national exams. But that's nowhere near the worst. My cousins come from a country in Asia known for its teen suicide rate due to exam failure. Over there, when school ends for the day, the kids go to afternoon prep schools to cram. I know *elementary school kids* who had tutors to prepare for admission into the most prestigious afternoon prep schools!!! Separate from their regular school! HOW CRAZY IS THAT?!?

All to say: don't ever believe the US has it bad. I promise you, even for the kids who take grades seriously... it's still a layabout's paradise.

Huh? My NYC sibling had a tutor for her 2yo to prep for preschool admissions to get into the right preschool that would line up for the right elementary. That was over 20 years ago. She had two kids - one ended up graduating from Wash U and is unemployed. The other is at an Ivy.

One of my kids had a tutor by elementary. All had tutors in high school and SAT prep. All took multiple APs, as early as 9th grade. The thing about US education isn’t that it’s laid back - it’s that it’s very individual. It’s a huge country and getting into the top 10-15 schools is very hard - but no one will force you to do those things. There are a lot of less competitive options and that’s where most of the laid back kids will end up.

And yet mine and many others are in ivies, unhooked , and got into the "top" preK and elementary, and later magnet high school, based on testing with no tutor and no prep. Rose to the top. There are naturally intelligent , self-disciplined motivated and focused kids out there. The ivies are chock full of them. Why would any parent have their kid in a school they only could survive with tutoring?

+100

My unhooked kid is headed to an Ivy. You could tell from when he was little. We never tutored or test prepped and he was self-motivated—-but frankly never had to study or struggle like other kids.

Next we will be hearing about first chairs at MCYO who never practice. Please. There exist prodigies for sure, and I've met some. Nowhere close to fill top 5, much less top 20 schools.

The PP is speaking of not needing to study as much as other kids and being highly slef motivated at school not music prodigies. The ivies are filled with naturally bright students who sailed through high school without tutors and aced the SATs and APs in the hardest classes. The vast majority of them were absolutely standout 1-2 kids in their high schools, not counting the mega donors or athletes or other big hooks. Well over half there are unhooked and were superstars in their high school. The adjustment that most will just be around average at the ivy can be hard. It is a significant mental toll on some.

Maybe. Maybe not. The kids from our HS that have gone onto T10 schools found HS more difficult.

It depends on the high school. Some are easier than others so a standout all-5s in calc and chem and the other hard ones, a typical UMC public school where a handful of kids have 1500+ and only a couple go to top 10s may not have had classes that taught beyond the level required for 5s on APs, whereas a kid at an ivy who came from a top elite private where the median SAT is 1480, kids do AP chem in 10th, organic chem in 11-12th, calc BC in 10 or 11 latest, diffEQ taught by phDs at the high school, english classes run like AP lit from 9th grade on with intense research papers…well those students are much more ready for the ivy/t10 level and depending on major they may feel easier, with only 4 intense classes not 6 in their HS. Throw in the higher intensity international high school programs and it really is very dependent on where you went to high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So the to answer your question OP from reading some of these replies: be well off, come from a family of geniuses, take a boatload of APs, be the very best at your ECs, and study your butt off. Or don’t buy into the T20 or bust mentality.

Thats an accurate summary!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Like so many straight A students who were chief school newspaper editor, captain of a varsity sports team, volunteering, and more who can't even get to VA Tech. I don't know what people who get into schools like Michigan or the Ivy Leagues are doing in high school.

My daughter's friend who got into Yale was an Asian male with a very high wGPA who won Science Olympiad competitions and is an advanced string player.

Straight A doesn't mean anything, OP, you should know this. There is a world's difference between an A in a regular classs and an A in an AP class. Kids who get into the top colleges have 10+ APs, have a national level EC, etc. Your newpaper editing and team captainship worked a generation ago, but not today.

This is sounds exhausting. Kids have no time to be kids.

They have a ton of time. It's really not that unachievable. We have a ton of college options. If you don't want to be competitive for the top ones, tap out and go to a decent one.

Wrong- kids do not have A TON of time when doing sports and very vigorous classes.

My kid doesn't get home til 7:30 p.m. 5 days per week and has 4 AP's. Practice on Saturday morning til noon. I just can't (and won't) push them to do more.

You shouldn’t. Just know there are kids who get home that late or later and do more than 4 APs and have an EC or job that eats up weekends and yet they want to do more and they fit it all in with all As and ace tests and still sleep 7-8 hrs….they push themselves but also can accomplish more than other kids in less hours of studying. As long as the kids are pushing themselves—not the parents doing it, & still healthy and sleeping enough who cares?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the to answer your question OP from reading some of these replies: be well off, come from a family of geniuses, take a boatload of APs, be the very best at your ECs, and study your butt off. Or don’t buy into the T20 or bust mentality.

Thats an accurate summary!

+1 end thread

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the to answer your question OP from reading some of these replies: be well off, come from a family of geniuses, take a boatload of APs, be the very best at your ECs, and study your butt off. Or don’t buy into the T20 or bust mentality.

Thats an accurate summary!

Genetics. That's why try-hards hate 'test required'. No matter how much they prep and tutor, they can only raise the score so much.

There are smart people. The cream tends to rise to the top. People love to make 100 and 10 excuses on why Sally or Jimmy got a low grade or low score or has executive function disorder.

College admin can suss this stuff out. They can tell the try-hard, followed a script, pushed by their parents and used a private counselor to make the same boring application.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Like so many straight A students who were chief school newspaper editor, captain of a varsity sports team, volunteering, and more who can't even get to VA Tech. I don't know what people who get into schools like Michigan or the Ivy Leagues are doing in high school.

My daughter's friend who got into Yale was an Asian male with a very high wGPA who won Science Olympiad competitions and is an advanced string player.

Straight A doesn't mean anything, OP, you should know this. There is a world's difference between an A in a regular classs and an A in an AP class. Kids who get into the top colleges have 10+ APs, have a national level EC, etc. Your newpaper editing and team captainship worked a generation ago, but not today.

This is sounds exhausting. Kids have no time to be kids.

I am 44, and in my European country, high school was a stressful workathon culminating in one heck of a national exam week. I was so stressed out I couldn't eat on the first day of national exams. But that's nowhere near the worst. My cousins come from a country in Asia known for its teen suicide rate due to exam failure. Over there, when school ends for the day, the kids go to afternoon prep schools to cram. I know *elementary school kids* who had tutors to prepare for admission into the most prestigious afternoon prep schools!!! Separate from their regular school! HOW CRAZY IS THAT?!?

All to say: don't ever believe the US has it bad. I promise you, even for the kids who take grades seriously... it's still a layabout's paradise.

Huh? My NYC sibling had a tutor for her 2yo to prep for preschool admissions to get into the right preschool that would line up for the right elementary. That was over 20 years ago. She had two kids - one ended up graduating from Wash U and is unemployed. The other is at an Ivy.

One of my kids had a tutor by elementary. All had tutors in high school and SAT prep. All took multiple APs, as early as 9th grade. The thing about US education isn’t that it’s laid back - it’s that it’s very individual. It’s a huge country and getting into the top 10-15 schools is very hard - but no one will force you to do those things. There are a lot of less competitive options and that’s where most of the laid back kids will end up.

And yet mine and many others are in ivies, unhooked , and got into the "top" preK and elementary, and later magnet high school, based on testing with no tutor and no prep. Rose to the top. There are naturally intelligent , self-disciplined motivated and focused kids out there. The ivies are chock full of them. Why would any parent have their kid in a school they only could survive with tutoring?

+100

My unhooked kid is headed to an Ivy. You could tell from when he was little. We never tutored or test prepped and he was self-motivated—-but frankly never had to study or struggle like other kids.

Next we will be hearing about first chairs at MCYO who never practice. Please. There exist prodigies for sure, and I've met some. Nowhere close to fill top 5, much less top 20 schools.

The PP is speaking of not needing to study as much as other kids and being highly slef motivated at school not music prodigies. The ivies are filled with naturally bright students who sailed through high school without tutors and aced the SATs and APs in the hardest classes. The vast majority of them were absolutely standout 1-2 kids in their high schools, not counting the mega donors or athletes or other big hooks. Well over half there are unhooked and were superstars in their high school. The adjustment that most will just be around average at the ivy can be hard. It is a significant mental toll on some.

The brilliant kids I know study most of the time, typically more than average kids. However, they study much harder material, so they perform at a much higher level.

I know a kid who won a silver medal at IPHO as a HS sophomore. It's no secret that he studies all day long, he will tell you this. I don't think he has a tutor in an ordinary sense, but he certainly has a lot of support. You don't get to that level on your own, just like you are not winning the Menuhin by being self-taught.

So, yes, these kids don't need to study much to get a 5 at AP, but they need to study just as much to go beyond that.

I wish brilliant lazy kids were more sought after but I don't think this is the case.

Not in my house. It's funny--every year I told my sons when they were screwing around 'hey- next year you won't be able to do this, things are really going to ramp up'. I said this going into their private HS and every year...including 'Junior year is no joke. You aren't going to have time.' My husband always was telling them they weren't doing any of the study stuff for ACT blah, blah...

My youngest just said to me when I warned him about how hard Junior year was going to be "you always say that". Oldest graduate with straight As and is headed to an Ivy next year. Younger brother also has straight As and also 5s AP exams.

The older one does study more than the younger one ever has (barely see him study), but nothing compared to peers.

I am at a job with a huge amount of attrition because it is production based, critical thinking and a lot of writing. My friend's husband asked why I never work voluntary overtime to get stuff done and how do I have so much free time when his wife can barely hang on.

We have great memories in my family. We absorb info fast. Good critical thinking skills. Read fast, but thorough. High processing speed, etc.

At my dad's funeral (organic chemist), his friends were joking about my dad 'the party guy'. They said he would come into the lab and tell them ---get out, let's have some fun--while they struggled. They said 'that son-of-a-b*ch was a genius. Never had to study, etc.' lol

This is easy for many kids. Some of those kids use the time to ramp up. They are performing at much higher level than your kids.

The world is filled with people of different performance levels. We acknowledge it for athletes but rarely when it comes to intelligence: there are real quantifiable differences as this thread shows and anyone who teaches students knows

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Like so many straight A students who were chief school newspaper editor, captain of a varsity sports team, volunteering, and more who can't even get to VA Tech. I don't know what people who get into schools like Michigan or the Ivy Leagues are doing in high school.

My daughter's friend who got into Yale was an Asian male with a very high wGPA who won Science Olympiad competitions and is an advanced string player.

Straight A doesn't mean anything, OP, you should know this. There is a world's difference between an A in a regular classs and an A in an AP class. Kids who get into the top colleges have 10+ APs, have a national level EC, etc. Your newpaper editing and team captainship worked a generation ago, but not today.

This is sounds exhausting. Kids have no time to be kids.

They have a ton of time. It's really not that unachievable. We have a ton of college options. If you don't want to be competitive for the top ones, tap out and go to a decent one.

Wrong- kids do not have A TON of time when doing sports and very vigorous classes.

My kid doesn't get home til 7:30 p.m. 5 days per week and has 4 AP's. Practice on Saturday morning til noon. I just can't (and won't) push them to do more.

You shouldn’t. Just know there are kids who get home that late or later and do more than 4 APs and have an EC or job that eats up weekends and yet they want to do more and they fit it all in with all As and ace tests and still sleep 7-8 hrs….they push themselves but also can accomplish more than other kids in less hours of studying. As long as the kids are pushing themselves—not the parents doing it, & still healthy and sleeping enough who cares?

You might not like it, but that is what other posters were saying. Their kids aren't stressed with that course load or playing time-consuming sports, having activitew. They manage to fit it in fairly stress-free and it takes them a lot less time to learn concepts. They function at a higher speed.

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Anonymous wrote:Like so many straight A students who were chief school newspaper editor, captain of a varsity sports team, volunteering, and more who can't even get to VA Tech. I don't know what people who get into schools like Michigan or the Ivy Leagues are doing in high school.

My daughter's friend who got into Yale was an Asian male with a very high wGPA who won Science Olympiad competitions and is an advanced string player.

Straight A doesn't mean anything, OP, you should know this. There is a world's difference between an A in a regular classs and an A in an AP class. Kids who get into the top colleges have 10+ APs, have a national level EC, etc. Your newpaper editing and team captainship worked a generation ago, but not today.

This is sounds exhausting. Kids have no time to be kids.

I am 44, and in my European country, high school was a stressful workathon culminating in one heck of a national exam week. I was so stressed out I couldn't eat on the first day of national exams. But that's nowhere near the worst. My cousins come from a country in Asia known for its teen suicide rate due to exam failure. Over there, when school ends for the day, the kids go to afternoon prep schools to cram. I know *elementary school kids* who had tutors to prepare for admission into the most prestigious afternoon prep schools!!! Separate from their regular school! HOW CRAZY IS THAT?!?

All to say: don't ever believe the US has it bad. I promise you, even for the kids who take grades seriously... it's still a layabout's paradise.

Huh? My NYC sibling had a tutor for her 2yo to prep for preschool admissions to get into the right preschool that would line up for the right elementary. That was over 20 years ago. She had two kids - one ended up graduating from Wash U and is unemployed. The other is at an Ivy.

One of my kids had a tutor by elementary. All had tutors in high school and SAT prep. All took multiple APs, as early as 9th grade. The thing about US education isn’t that it’s laid back - it’s that it’s very individual. It’s a huge country and getting into the top 10-15 schools is very hard - but no one will force you to do those things. There are a lot of less competitive options and that’s where most of the laid back kids will end up.

And yet mine and many others are in ivies, unhooked , and got into the "top" preK and elementary, and later magnet high school, based on testing with no tutor and no prep. Rose to the top. There are naturally intelligent , self-disciplined motivated and focused kids out there. The ivies are chock full of them. Why would any parent have their kid in a school they only could survive with tutoring?

+100

My unhooked kid is headed to an Ivy. You could tell from when he was little. We never tutored or test prepped and he was self-motivated—-but frankly never had to study or struggle like other kids.

Next we will be hearing about first chairs at MCYO who never practice. Please. There exist prodigies for sure, and I've met some. Nowhere close to fill top 5, much less top 20 schools.

The PP is speaking of not needing to study as much as other kids and being highly slef motivated at school not music prodigies. The ivies are filled with naturally bright students who sailed through high school without tutors and aced the SATs and APs in the hardest classes. The vast majority of them were absolutely standout 1-2 kids in their high schools, not counting the mega donors or athletes or other big hooks. Well over half there are unhooked and were superstars in their high school. The adjustment that most will just be around average at the ivy can be hard. It is a significant mental toll on some.

The brilliant kids I know study most of the time, typically more than average kids. However, they study much harder material, so they perform at a much higher level.

I know a kid who won a silver medal at IPHO as a HS sophomore. It's no secret that he studies all day long, he will tell you this. I don't think he has a tutor in an ordinary sense, but he certainly has a lot of support. You don't get to that level on your own, just like you are not winning the Menuhin by being self-taught.

So, yes, these kids don't need to study much to get a 5 at AP, but they need to study just as much to go beyond that.

I wish brilliant lazy kids were more sought after but I don't think this is the case.

Not in my house. It's funny--every year I told my sons when they were screwing around 'hey- next year you won't be able to do this, things are really going to ramp up'. I said this going into their private HS and every year...including 'Junior year is no joke. You aren't going to have time.' My husband always was telling them they weren't doing any of the study stuff for ACT blah, blah...

My youngest just said to me when I warned him about how hard Junior year was going to be "you always say that". Oldest graduate with straight As and is headed to an Ivy next year. Younger brother also has straight As and also 5s AP exams.

The older one does study more than the younger one ever has (barely see him study), but nothing compared to peers.

I am at a job with a huge amount of attrition because it is production based, critical thinking and a lot of writing. My friend's husband asked why I never work voluntary overtime to get stuff done and how do I have so much free time when his wife can barely hang on.

We have great memories in my family. We absorb info fast. Good critical thinking skills. Read fast, but thorough. High processing speed, etc.

At my dad's funeral (organic chemist), his friends were joking about my dad 'the party guy'. They said he would come into the lab and tell them ---get out, let's have some fun--while they struggled. They said 'that son-of-a-b*ch was a genius. Never had to study, etc.' lol

This is easy for many kids. Some of those kids use the time to ramp up. They are performing at much higher level than your kids.

The world is filled with people of different performance levels. We acknowledge it for athletes but rarely when it comes to intelligence: there are real quantifiable differences as this thread shows and anyone who teaches students knows

Wtf does that mean? Your not making the case you think you are making.

Very few kids have the talent to go D1. Just like very few kids have the raw intelligence for an Ivy. A D1 coach isn't taking a kid that no matter how much they work--just can't get to that level--good, but not outstanding.

[Anonymous]

^* you are