GDS high school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, just say “n-word”. My kid is reading Sing, Unbroken, Sing at SSSAS. The teachers explained to the students that the (Black) author used the word (spoken by both Black and white characters in the book) and that the students themselves should say “n-word” if reading aloud or type “n*****” if quoting the book in a written response.

It’s important to read and discuss books with these themes and topics but it’s also important for teachers and students to understand what language is and isn’t acceptable even in purely academic discussion. There are easy work-arounds that don’t take away from the author’s choices to include certain words, the importance of introducing such words from an academic standpoint, or the importance of the importance of the topic, but still don’t have students or even teachers speaking certain words about loud.

You missed an important point, which is that Toni Morrison, a poet and novelist, deliberately chose to use the n-word in her own writing. Toni Morrison was a staunch supporter of free speech (she even wrote an intro to a recent edition of Huck Finn!), and she chose to use the n-word instead of something less noticeable because it has meaning. If she wanted people to read "n-word," she would have chosen a different word.
In the context of a GDS class taught by a veteran teacher, it's clear that the teacher using the n-word had provided appropriate guidance to the students. GDS admin went too far in admonishing the teacher and letting the student run roughshod over the pedagogical process. From now on, teachers are going to think twice about introducing any literature that could be controversial, much to the detriment of GDS students. It's truly sad to see a paragon of intellectual free thinking devolve into a caricature of knee-jerk liberal politics.

Hey, maybe you haven’t noticed, but Toni Morrison is black.

Black music artists also choose to use the n word in their songs. White people still can’t sing that word.

Where have you been if you are not aware of this modern reality? This is a small toll on your freedom and really is NOT that big a deal. Get over yourself. Maybe ask yourself why it’s so important to you that white people should be saying that word when there are black people in the classroom that do not want to be subjected to that. Why does your white opinion matter more than theirs?

I don't want a man teaching feminist theory. Even if he has a PhD in the field, I'd rather have a woman teach it because she's a woman.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, just say “n-word”. My kid is reading Sing, Unbroken, Sing at SSSAS. The teachers explained to the students that the (Black) author used the word (spoken by both Black and white characters in the book) and that the students themselves should say “n-word” if reading aloud or type “n*****” if quoting the book in a written response.

It’s important to read and discuss books with these themes and topics but it’s also important for teachers and students to understand what language is and isn’t acceptable even in purely academic discussion. There are easy work-arounds that don’t take away from the author’s choices to include certain words, the importance of introducing such words from an academic standpoint, or the importance of the importance of the topic, but still don’t have students or even teachers speaking certain words about loud.

You missed an important point, which is that Toni Morrison, a poet and novelist, deliberately chose to use the n-word in her own writing. Toni Morrison was a staunch supporter of free speech (she even wrote an intro to a recent edition of Huck Finn!), and she chose to use the n-word instead of something less noticeable because it has meaning. If she wanted people to read "n-word," she would have chosen a different word.
In the context of a GDS class taught by a veteran teacher, it's clear that the teacher using the n-word had provided appropriate guidance to the students. GDS admin went too far in admonishing the teacher and letting the student run roughshod over the pedagogical process. From now on, teachers are going to think twice about introducing any literature that could be controversial, much to the detriment of GDS students. It's truly sad to see a paragon of intellectual free thinking devolve into a caricature of knee-jerk liberal politics.

Hey, maybe you haven’t noticed, but Toni Morrison is black.

Black music artists also choose to use the n word in their songs. White people still can’t sing that word.

Where have you been if you are not aware of this modern reality? This is a small toll on your freedom and really is NOT that big a deal. Get over yourself. Maybe ask yourself why it’s so important to you that white people should be saying that word when there are black people in the classroom that do not want to be subjected to that. Why does your white opinion matter more than theirs?

Toni Morrison is not NWA. You are diminishing her.

[Anonymous]

If this very basic stuff is what you guys think is woke, I guess I’ve had my eyes opened today.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, just say “n-word”. My kid is reading Sing, Unbroken, Sing at SSSAS. The teachers explained to the students that the (Black) author used the word (spoken by both Black and white characters in the book) and that the students themselves should say “n-word” if reading aloud or type “n*****” if quoting the book in a written response.

It’s important to read and discuss books with these themes and topics but it’s also important for teachers and students to understand what language is and isn’t acceptable even in purely academic discussion. There are easy work-arounds that don’t take away from the author’s choices to include certain words, the importance of introducing such words from an academic standpoint, or the importance of the importance of the topic, but still don’t have students or even teachers speaking certain words about loud.

You missed an important point, which is that Toni Morrison, a poet and novelist, deliberately chose to use the n-word in her own writing. Toni Morrison was a staunch supporter of free speech (she even wrote an intro to a recent edition of Huck Finn!), and she chose to use the n-word instead of something less noticeable because it has meaning. If she wanted people to read "n-word," she would have chosen a different word.
In the context of a GDS class taught by a veteran teacher, it's clear that the teacher using the n-word had provided appropriate guidance to the students. GDS admin went too far in admonishing the teacher and letting the student run roughshod over the pedagogical process. From now on, teachers are going to think twice about introducing any literature that could be controversial, much to the detriment of GDS students. It's truly sad to see a paragon of intellectual free thinking devolve into a caricature of knee-jerk liberal politics.

Hey, maybe you haven’t noticed, but Toni Morrison is black.

Black music artists also choose to use the n word in their songs. White people still can’t sing that word.

Where have you been if you are not aware of this modern reality? This is a small toll on your freedom and really is NOT that big a deal. Get over yourself. Maybe ask yourself why it’s so important to you that white people should be saying that word when there are black people in the classroom that do not want to be subjected to that. Why does your white opinion matter more than theirs?

The point here is that it was Toni Morrison's opinion that it be used in that spot because it is such a provocative word. She *wants* people to respond to the word. Why should some teenage student's knee-jerk response count more than here judgment?

The bigger point is that this ridiculous supposed "rule" about words being fine for some people to say, and a crime for others -- even if spoken with no ill intent -- is absurd.

The biggest point is that while it's a reasonable point of disagreement whether the teacher in this case should read the actual word or substitute "n-word", the whole issue is just that -- a small point of artistic debate.

What the teacher did is not a hate crime nor worthy of public shaming. It is worthy of a classroom conversation about the power of words and the effectiveness or not of upsetting norms via art.

But intellectual conversations are no longer allowed.

[Anonymous]

Who has accused the teacher of a hate crime?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Who has accused the teacher of a hate crime?

That was hyperbole, but you get the point. We can just stick with public shamibg.

[Anonymous]

I am Black, and I don't use the word.

But now we have moms who are upset that their children are being denied the right to say the n-word. Don't be surprised when they start banning books..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am Black, and I don't use the word.

But now we have moms who are upset that their children are being denied the right to say the n-word. Don't be surprised when they start banning books..

None of us here say the n-word, and none of our non-Black kids would use that word in speech (some probably sing it, which I don't think anyone --rappers included -- should).

The issue here is a teacher reading a quote from a novel which uses the word intentionally.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am Black, and I don't use the word.

But now we have moms who are upset that their children are being denied the right to say the n-word. Don't be surprised when they start banning books..

None of us here say the n-word, and none of our non-Black kids would use that word in speech (some probably sing it, which I don't think anyone --rappers included -- should).

The issue here is a teacher reading a quote from a novel which uses the word intentionally.

Exactly. The point of this thread is being lost as usual. Bottom line is teacher read verbatim a passage and warned students he would be doing it. He was reported.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am Black, and I don't use the word.

But now we have moms who are upset that their children are being denied the right to say the n-word. Don't be surprised when they start banning books..

None of us here say the n-word, and none of our non-Black kids would use that word in speech (some probably sing it, which I don't think anyone --rappers included -- should).

The issue here is a teacher reading a quote from a novel which uses the word intentionally.

Exactly. The point of this thread is being lost as usual. Bottom line is teacher read verbatim a passage and warned students he would be doing it. He was reported.

More than that, the GDS admin decided that the student's complaint was valid over the pedagogical judgment of a veteran teacher. And the admin required a public apology from the teacher, which then spiraled into an apology to the larger grade.
I blame the admin. The school is driven by DEI staff who are academic lightweights compared to the teachers, and the students know it.
I'm surprised that the Augur Bit hasn't reported on this.

[Anonymous]

We are not missing the point. You’re just not hearing us. Is it suddenly okay to say this word as a white person because you give a warning first? That’s silly.

I can understand this older teacher maybe thought it was okay. For the work! The rules don’t apply in the classroom somehow when a black author wrote the word, and because the author’s point is that language has power!

Okay, but language has power! You are still an old white guy saying this word in a classroom with kids, and you are the one in that room with power as their teacher. The fact that language has power is exactly the point. You reading that word as a white teacher regardless of the wishes of your students is claiming a power over them whether you fully intend it or not.

When folks were railing against wokeness, I didn’t think the issues would be this basic. This is stuff that I as a white person understood at least 15 years ago. Seriously wtf?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What "data"?

You never hear anyone say, "I'm voting D because the Rs were mean to me!" Only the other way around.

There's no need to sidetrack this but that's just patently untrue.

“I used to be open to immigrants and universal healthcare, but then someone made me call them by a different pronoun so now I’m voting for Trump.”

That part is true. The untrue part is that noone says "I'm voting D because the R's were mean to me!". Just talking from personal experience, that's the reason I'm voting D.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We are not missing the point. You’re just not hearing us. Is it suddenly okay to say this word as a white person because you give a warning first? That’s silly.

I can understand this older teacher maybe thought it was okay. For the work! The rules don’t apply in the classroom somehow when a black author wrote the word, and because the author’s point is that language has power!

Okay, but language has power! You are still an old white guy saying this word in a classroom with kids, and you are the one in that room with power as their teacher. The fact that language has power is exactly the point. You reading that word as a white teacher regardless of the wishes of your students is claiming a power over them whether you fully intend it or not.

When folks were railing against wokeness, I didn’t think the issues would be this basic. This is stuff that I as a white person understood at least 15 years ago. Seriously wtf?

Because we have moved beyond this simplistic view from 15 years ago. There are so many problems with this scenario that you outlined, including the one at GDS where there are valid reasons for any teacher to read out-loud certain passages when students are given the proper context for it. What happens when you have a white-passing teacher who is AA read the N-word? Would you rather have an inexperienced Black math teacher read Morrison out loud rather than an experienced Indigenous one? How far does identity politics enter into the classroom? If you really want to press the argument, anything in the humanities ought to be taught only by the people of the same race/gender who created certain works. Universities are changing their tune about all of this because the politics you describe are making students and teachers fearful to think critically about hard topics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We are not missing the point. You’re just not hearing us. Is it suddenly okay to say this word as a white person because you give a warning first? That’s silly.

I can understand this older teacher maybe thought it was okay. For the work! The rules don’t apply in the classroom somehow when a black author wrote the word, and because the author’s point is that language has power!

Okay, but language has power! You are still an old white guy saying this word in a classroom with kids, and you are the one in that room with power as their teacher. The fact that language has power is exactly the point. You reading that word as a white teacher regardless of the wishes of your students is claiming a power over them whether you fully intend it or not.

When folks were railing against wokeness, I didn’t think the issues would be this basic. This is stuff that I as a white person understood at least 15 years ago. Seriously wtf?

And the solution is to not expose high school kids to works of great art of universal importance? This isn't pop music. This is Toni Morrison's magnum opus. The book that got her awarded the Nobel Prize for Literature. A book about finding oneself and coming to terms with their family history and legacy, warts and all. A book about personal growth. The evolving language choices of the various characters are part of the way she shows that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We are not missing the point. You’re just not hearing us. Is it suddenly okay to say this word as a white person because you give a warning first? That’s silly.

I can understand this older teacher maybe thought it was okay. For the work! The rules don’t apply in the classroom somehow when a black author wrote the word, and because the author’s point is that language has power!

Okay, but language has power! You are still an old white guy saying this word in a classroom with kids, and you are the one in that room with power as their teacher. The fact that language has power is exactly the point. You reading that word as a white teacher regardless of the wishes of your students is claiming a power over them whether you fully intend it or not.

When folks were railing against wokeness, I didn’t think the issues would be this basic. This is stuff that I as a white person understood at least 15 years ago. Seriously wtf?

"Claiming a power" is bs here.

Language has power, and language is only language. The word is used in a work of fiction by fictional third parties. No one in the room is calling anyone a name; no one in the room is a target. It is a discussion in the appropriate context of a literature class. No one is using the word gratuitously or maliciously.

Everyone should be capable of discussing that scenario. If we can't hold such a discussion, we are doomed.