AAP should be eliminated as it’s not the path to equity

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AAP is not a gifted program. It is mainly a way for parents with means to get their kids segregated from the poor kids, disguised as a gifted program. (Let’s not pretend these parents aren’t prepping their kids for the two tests which are meant to be taken totally unprepped, or that they’re not “contributing” to their children’s work samples, and when all else fails they’ll pay for and prep their kid for an IQ test…)

The problem is then everyone pretends that all of the kids left behind are getting an adequate and appropriate education. Wrong! The average, above average, and poor gifted kids are being left to flounder jn gen ed which is essentially remedial at this point. But the rich “gifted” kids are at centers so I guess all is well.

All the kids are taking the same standardized tests. They all have equal access to the same programs. If you are able to demonstrate a high level of knowledge in subjects, it makes perfect sense to be able to receive a higher level of acceleration and material taught. Just the same if a child tests low, remedial measures are put in place.

So you prepped your kids for the tests. That is essentially cheating - it is not indicative of your child’s giftedness. Which, again, is a HUGE part of the problem.

(Also, does no one else think it’s insane to basically permanently track kids at ages 6-7? Johnny didn’t score as well on a test he didn’t prepare for in second grade [because you’re not supposed to prepare for it] as Timmy whose Mommy was giving him practice tests for three months, so Johnny is essentially screwed for the the rest of his time in FCPS?)

To get rid of APP, everyone needs to vote for the Democrat-backed candidates running for school board positions.

The republicans will only keep AAP in place.

Vote D and put an end to AAP.

Although I agree the GOP is usually okay with segregation, this is accurate. I've looked at the candidate's platform and haven't seen anything about eliminating AAP.

Segregation is a result of individual learning preferences. Students who prefer a standard pace opt for a regular class, while those seeking a more in-depth understanding choose to enroll in Honors class for the same subject. And, students who aim to take their learning to an advanced level decide to join corresponding AP class. This segregation of students into these various classes happens because of student's choice and their learning preference.

But politicians want their sheep followers to take note of race of students in these three different classes, and what skin color is majority and what other skin color is out numbered especially in the advanced class, to drive a wedge between racial groups.

Or maybe they just want a fair system that elevates all students and helps them develop their ptoential

The truth is that that system exists but it is not accessed by many families in ES because the parents are not engaged. Teachers are allowed to refer kids for LIV because there is a concern about deserving kids who did not hit the in-pool score not being referred by parents. The recent change to localized in-pool scores is an effort to get more kids in front of the committee who were not in the past because their test scores were not high enough. Young Scholars is more active at Title 1 schools then it is at UMC schools for a reason. Class sizes are intentionally small at Title 1 schools for a reason.

But you need the parents to buy in and encourage their kids. Get their kids to school. Care about their grades and activities at school. And that is missing at most Title 1 schools.

It is not because the parents don’t love their kids, because they do. But the parents are trying to take care of their families and don’t have time for meetings and info sessions and parent teacher conferences. The parents don’t have the money to enroll their kids in after school activities at the school and probably don’t have the time to research scholarships for their kid. They sure don’t have the time to run math club or STEM Scouts or some other enrichment activity. Most importantly, the parents don’t have an education themselves and do not value a high school degree.

A kid at a Title 1 school who shows any interest in school is going to receive so much help and encouragement and you can only help that will take them into HS and beyond because the likelihood that they get that support at home is small.

The problem with the current system is a lot of families with means are able to access this programming through appeals, prep or providing outside diagnosis to bolster their claims of giftedness.

Exactly it provides a way around desegregation laws. Families with money have their kids put into AAP whereas those without are in gened. It's that simple.

This is an incredibly obtuse take. I personally know lower income children who not only got in but thrived in AAP. Stop making stuff up.

Sure there are a few rare exceptions, but AAP has a much lower FARMS rate than Gen-ed. It is a way to segregate the rich from the poor. That isn't even up for debate.

Because of much stronger family support, many AAP kids are ready for more material at a greater rate. Yes some are truly gifted, but others are just more educated even if not necessarily naturally smarter.

Current AAP needs dedicated focus on who are not there but need to be there, like FARMS, gen-ed, poor, title-1, and whoever. To make space for the deserving, should the current upper half of AAP students be moved to somewhere else, like a newly created AAP level Five to Ten program?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AAP is not a gifted program. It is mainly a way for parents with means to get their kids segregated from the poor kids, disguised as a gifted program. (Let’s not pretend these parents aren’t prepping their kids for the two tests which are meant to be taken totally unprepped, or that they’re not “contributing” to their children’s work samples, and when all else fails they’ll pay for and prep their kid for an IQ test…)

The problem is then everyone pretends that all of the kids left behind are getting an adequate and appropriate education. Wrong! The average, above average, and poor gifted kids are being left to flounder jn gen ed which is essentially remedial at this point. But the rich “gifted” kids are at centers so I guess all is well.

All the kids are taking the same standardized tests. They all have equal access to the same programs. If you are able to demonstrate a high level of knowledge in subjects, it makes perfect sense to be able to receive a higher level of acceleration and material taught. Just the same if a child tests low, remedial measures are put in place.

So you prepped your kids for the tests. That is essentially cheating - it is not indicative of your child’s giftedness. Which, again, is a HUGE part of the problem.

(Also, does no one else think it’s insane to basically permanently track kids at ages 6-7? Johnny didn’t score as well on a test he didn’t prepare for in second grade [because you’re not supposed to prepare for it] as Timmy whose Mommy was giving him practice tests for three months, so Johnny is essentially screwed for the the rest of his time in FCPS?)

To get rid of APP, everyone needs to vote for the Democrat-backed candidates running for school board positions.

The republicans will only keep AAP in place.

Vote D and put an end to AAP.

Although I agree the GOP is usually okay with segregation, this is accurate. I've looked at the candidate's platform and haven't seen anything about eliminating AAP.

Segregation is a result of individual learning preferences. Students who prefer a standard pace opt for a regular class, while those seeking a more in-depth understanding choose to enroll in Honors class for the same subject. And, students who aim to take their learning to an advanced level decide to join corresponding AP class. This segregation of students into these various classes happens because of student's choice and their learning preference.

But politicians want their sheep followers to take note of race of students in these three different classes, and what skin color is majority and what other skin color is out numbered especially in the advanced class, to drive a wedge between racial groups.

Or maybe they just want a fair system that elevates all students and helps them develop their ptoential

The truth is that that system exists but it is not accessed by many families in ES because the parents are not engaged. Teachers are allowed to refer kids for LIV because there is a concern about deserving kids who did not hit the in-pool score not being referred by parents. The recent change to localized in-pool scores is an effort to get more kids in front of the committee who were not in the past because their test scores were not high enough. Young Scholars is more active at Title 1 schools then it is at UMC schools for a reason. Class sizes are intentionally small at Title 1 schools for a reason.

But you need the parents to buy in and encourage their kids. Get their kids to school. Care about their grades and activities at school. And that is missing at most Title 1 schools.

It is not because the parents don’t love their kids, because they do. But the parents are trying to take care of their families and don’t have time for meetings and info sessions and parent teacher conferences. The parents don’t have the money to enroll their kids in after school activities at the school and probably don’t have the time to research scholarships for their kid. They sure don’t have the time to run math club or STEM Scouts or some other enrichment activity. Most importantly, the parents don’t have an education themselves and do not value a high school degree.

A kid at a Title 1 school who shows any interest in school is going to receive so much help and encouragement and you can only help that will take them into HS and beyond because the likelihood that they get that support at home is small.

The problem with the current system is a lot of families with means are able to access this programming through appeals, prep or providing outside diagnosis to bolster their claims of giftedness.

Exactly it provides a way around desegregation laws. Families with money have their kids put into AAP whereas those without are in gened. It's that simple.

This is an incredibly obtuse take. I personally know lower income children who not only got in but thrived in AAP. Stop making stuff up.

Sure there are a few rare exceptions, but AAP has a much lower FARMS rate than Gen-ed. It is a way to segregate the rich from the poor. That isn't even up for debate.

Agree that may be an effect, but that doesn't mean it's the intent/motivation. The motivation/intent is to meet kids where they are. If you think the entire program is driven by a desire for socioeconomic segregation, then we live in different worlds. Housing policy and choices and school boundaries have FAR more to do with socioeconomic segregation than the AAP/GenEd split does within a given school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AAP is not a gifted program. It is mainly a way for parents with means to get their kids segregated from the poor kids, disguised as a gifted program. (Let’s not pretend these parents aren’t prepping their kids for the two tests which are meant to be taken totally unprepped, or that they’re not “contributing” to their children’s work samples, and when all else fails they’ll pay for and prep their kid for an IQ test…)

The problem is then everyone pretends that all of the kids left behind are getting an adequate and appropriate education. Wrong! The average, above average, and poor gifted kids are being left to flounder jn gen ed which is essentially remedial at this point. But the rich “gifted” kids are at centers so I guess all is well.

All the kids are taking the same standardized tests. They all have equal access to the same programs. If you are able to demonstrate a high level of knowledge in subjects, it makes perfect sense to be able to receive a higher level of acceleration and material taught. Just the same if a child tests low, remedial measures are put in place.

So you prepped your kids for the tests. That is essentially cheating - it is not indicative of your child’s giftedness. Which, again, is a HUGE part of the problem.

(Also, does no one else think it’s insane to basically permanently track kids at ages 6-7? Johnny didn’t score as well on a test he didn’t prepare for in second grade [because you’re not supposed to prepare for it] as Timmy whose Mommy was giving him practice tests for three months, so Johnny is essentially screwed for the the rest of his time in FCPS?)

To get rid of APP, everyone needs to vote for the Democrat-backed candidates running for school board positions.

The republicans will only keep AAP in place.

Vote D and put an end to AAP.

Although I agree the GOP is usually okay with segregation, this is accurate. I've looked at the candidate's platform and haven't seen anything about eliminating AAP.

Segregation is a result of individual learning preferences. Students who prefer a standard pace opt for a regular class, while those seeking a more in-depth understanding choose to enroll in Honors class for the same subject. And, students who aim to take their learning to an advanced level decide to join corresponding AP class. This segregation of students into these various classes happens because of student's choice and their learning preference.

But politicians want their sheep followers to take note of race of students in these three different classes, and what skin color is majority and what other skin color is out numbered especially in the advanced class, to drive a wedge between racial groups.

Or maybe they just want a fair system that elevates all students and helps them develop their ptoential

The truth is that that system exists but it is not accessed by many families in ES because the parents are not engaged. Teachers are allowed to refer kids for LIV because there is a concern about deserving kids who did not hit the in-pool score not being referred by parents. The recent change to localized in-pool scores is an effort to get more kids in front of the committee who were not in the past because their test scores were not high enough. Young Scholars is more active at Title 1 schools then it is at UMC schools for a reason. Class sizes are intentionally small at Title 1 schools for a reason.

But you need the parents to buy in and encourage their kids. Get their kids to school. Care about their grades and activities at school. And that is missing at most Title 1 schools.

It is not because the parents don’t love their kids, because they do. But the parents are trying to take care of their families and don’t have time for meetings and info sessions and parent teacher conferences. The parents don’t have the money to enroll their kids in after school activities at the school and probably don’t have the time to research scholarships for their kid. They sure don’t have the time to run math club or STEM Scouts or some other enrichment activity. Most importantly, the parents don’t have an education themselves and do not value a high school degree.

A kid at a Title 1 school who shows any interest in school is going to receive so much help and encouragement and you can only help that will take them into HS and beyond because the likelihood that they get that support at home is small.

The problem with the current system is a lot of families with means are able to access this programming through appeals, prep or providing outside diagnosis to bolster their claims of giftedness.

Exactly it provides a way around desegregation laws. Families with money have their kids put into AAP whereas those without are in gened. It's that simple.

This is an incredibly obtuse take. I personally know lower income children who not only got in but thrived in AAP. Stop making stuff up.

Sure there are a few rare exceptions, but AAP has a much lower FARMS rate than Gen-ed. It is a way to segregate the rich from the poor. That isn't even up for debate.

You are out of your mind. You segregate rich from poor by having the means to move to a wealthy district, or leaving public school altogether, as many do. Many gen ed kids in the wealthy pyramids! Many Title I kids get into AAP. You make no sense.

Btw, I'm not wealthy and would love for my child to be in AAP when the time comes. Why? Because of the learning opportunities. I will be happy for my child to be alongside children from various income backgrounds who also want to go to school to learn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AAP is not a gifted program. It is mainly a way for parents with means to get their kids segregated from the poor kids, disguised as a gifted program. (Let’s not pretend these parents aren’t prepping their kids for the two tests which are meant to be taken totally unprepped, or that they’re not “contributing” to their children’s work samples, and when all else fails they’ll pay for and prep their kid for an IQ test…)

The problem is then everyone pretends that all of the kids left behind are getting an adequate and appropriate education. Wrong! The average, above average, and poor gifted kids are being left to flounder jn gen ed which is essentially remedial at this point. But the rich “gifted” kids are at centers so I guess all is well.

All the kids are taking the same standardized tests. They all have equal access to the same programs. If you are able to demonstrate a high level of knowledge in subjects, it makes perfect sense to be able to receive a higher level of acceleration and material taught. Just the same if a child tests low, remedial measures are put in place.

So you prepped your kids for the tests. That is essentially cheating - it is not indicative of your child’s giftedness. Which, again, is a HUGE part of the problem.

(Also, does no one else think it’s insane to basically permanently track kids at ages 6-7? Johnny didn’t score as well on a test he didn’t prepare for in second grade [because you’re not supposed to prepare for it] as Timmy whose Mommy was giving him practice tests for three months, so Johnny is essentially screwed for the the rest of his time in FCPS?)

To get rid of APP, everyone needs to vote for the Democrat-backed candidates running for school board positions.

The republicans will only keep AAP in place.

Vote D and put an end to AAP.

Although I agree the GOP is usually okay with segregation, this is accurate. I've looked at the candidate's platform and haven't seen anything about eliminating AAP.

Segregation is a result of individual learning preferences. Students who prefer a standard pace opt for a regular class, while those seeking a more in-depth understanding choose to enroll in Honors class for the same subject. And, students who aim to take their learning to an advanced level decide to join corresponding AP class. This segregation of students into these various classes happens because of student's choice and their learning preference.

But politicians want their sheep followers to take note of race of students in these three different classes, and what skin color is majority and what other skin color is out numbered especially in the advanced class, to drive a wedge between racial groups.

Or maybe they just want a fair system that elevates all students and helps them develop their ptoential

The truth is that that system exists but it is not accessed by many families in ES because the parents are not engaged. Teachers are allowed to refer kids for LIV because there is a concern about deserving kids who did not hit the in-pool score not being referred by parents. The recent change to localized in-pool scores is an effort to get more kids in front of the committee who were not in the past because their test scores were not high enough. Young Scholars is more active at Title 1 schools then it is at UMC schools for a reason. Class sizes are intentionally small at Title 1 schools for a reason.

But you need the parents to buy in and encourage their kids. Get their kids to school. Care about their grades and activities at school. And that is missing at most Title 1 schools.

It is not because the parents don’t love their kids, because they do. But the parents are trying to take care of their families and don’t have time for meetings and info sessions and parent teacher conferences. The parents don’t have the money to enroll their kids in after school activities at the school and probably don’t have the time to research scholarships for their kid. They sure don’t have the time to run math club or STEM Scouts or some other enrichment activity. Most importantly, the parents don’t have an education themselves and do not value a high school degree.

A kid at a Title 1 school who shows any interest in school is going to receive so much help and encouragement and you can only help that will take them into HS and beyond because the likelihood that they get that support at home is small.

The problem with the current system is a lot of families with means are able to access this programming through appeals, prep or providing outside diagnosis to bolster their claims of giftedness.

Exactly it provides a way around desegregation laws. Families with money have their kids put into AAP whereas those without are in gened. It's that simple.

This is an incredibly obtuse take. I personally know lower income children who not only got in but thrived in AAP. Stop making stuff up.

Sure there are a few rare exceptions, but AAP has a much lower FARMS rate than Gen-ed. It is a way to segregate the rich from the poor. That isn't even up for debate.

Agree that may be an effect, but that doesn't mean it's the intent/motivation. The motivation/intent is to meet kids where they are. If you think the entire program is driven by a desire for socioeconomic segregation, then we live in different worlds. Housing policy and choices and school boundaries have FAR more to do with socioeconomic segregation than the AAP/GenEd split does within a given school.

Of course it's not the intent but it is the result.AAP ends up being socioeconomic segregation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AAP is not a gifted program. It is mainly a way for parents with means to get their kids segregated from the poor kids, disguised as a gifted program. (Let’s not pretend these parents aren’t prepping their kids for the two tests which are meant to be taken totally unprepped, or that they’re not “contributing” to their children’s work samples, and when all else fails they’ll pay for and prep their kid for an IQ test…)

The problem is then everyone pretends that all of the kids left behind are getting an adequate and appropriate education. Wrong! The average, above average, and poor gifted kids are being left to flounder jn gen ed which is essentially remedial at this point. But the rich “gifted” kids are at centers so I guess all is well.

All the kids are taking the same standardized tests. They all have equal access to the same programs. If you are able to demonstrate a high level of knowledge in subjects, it makes perfect sense to be able to receive a higher level of acceleration and material taught. Just the same if a child tests low, remedial measures are put in place.

So you prepped your kids for the tests. That is essentially cheating - it is not indicative of your child’s giftedness. Which, again, is a HUGE part of the problem.

(Also, does no one else think it’s insane to basically permanently track kids at ages 6-7? Johnny didn’t score as well on a test he didn’t prepare for in second grade [because you’re not supposed to prepare for it] as Timmy whose Mommy was giving him practice tests for three months, so Johnny is essentially screwed for the the rest of his time in FCPS?)

To get rid of APP, everyone needs to vote for the Democrat-backed candidates running for school board positions.

The republicans will only keep AAP in place.

Vote D and put an end to AAP.

Although I agree the GOP is usually okay with segregation, this is accurate. I've looked at the candidate's platform and haven't seen anything about eliminating AAP.

Segregation is a result of individual learning preferences. Students who prefer a standard pace opt for a regular class, while those seeking a more in-depth understanding choose to enroll in Honors class for the same subject. And, students who aim to take their learning to an advanced level decide to join corresponding AP class. This segregation of students into these various classes happens because of student's choice and their learning preference.

But politicians want their sheep followers to take note of race of students in these three different classes, and what skin color is majority and what other skin color is out numbered especially in the advanced class, to drive a wedge between racial groups.

Or maybe they just want a fair system that elevates all students and helps them develop their ptoential

The truth is that that system exists but it is not accessed by many families in ES because the parents are not engaged. Teachers are allowed to refer kids for LIV because there is a concern about deserving kids who did not hit the in-pool score not being referred by parents. The recent change to localized in-pool scores is an effort to get more kids in front of the committee who were not in the past because their test scores were not high enough. Young Scholars is more active at Title 1 schools then it is at UMC schools for a reason. Class sizes are intentionally small at Title 1 schools for a reason.

But you need the parents to buy in and encourage their kids. Get their kids to school. Care about their grades and activities at school. And that is missing at most Title 1 schools.

It is not because the parents don’t love their kids, because they do. But the parents are trying to take care of their families and don’t have time for meetings and info sessions and parent teacher conferences. The parents don’t have the money to enroll their kids in after school activities at the school and probably don’t have the time to research scholarships for their kid. They sure don’t have the time to run math club or STEM Scouts or some other enrichment activity. Most importantly, the parents don’t have an education themselves and do not value a high school degree.

A kid at a Title 1 school who shows any interest in school is going to receive so much help and encouragement and you can only help that will take them into HS and beyond because the likelihood that they get that support at home is small.

The problem with the current system is a lot of families with means are able to access this programming through appeals, prep or providing outside diagnosis to bolster their claims of giftedness.

Exactly it provides a way around desegregation laws. Families with money have their kids put into AAP whereas those without are in gened. It's that simple.

This is an incredibly obtuse take. I personally know lower income children who not only got in but thrived in AAP. Stop making stuff up.

Sure there are a few rare exceptions, but AAP has a much lower FARMS rate than Gen-ed. It is a way to segregate the rich from the poor. That isn't even up for debate.

Agree that may be an effect, but that doesn't mean it's the intent/motivation. The motivation/intent is to meet kids where they are. If you think the entire program is driven by a desire for socioeconomic segregation, then we live in different worlds. Housing policy and choices and school boundaries have FAR more to do with socioeconomic segregation than the AAP/GenEd split does within a given school.

Of course it's not the intent but it is the result.AAP ends up being socioeconomic segregation.

No it isn't. That's not the result.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AAP is not a gifted program. It is mainly a way for parents with means to get their kids segregated from the poor kids, disguised as a gifted program. (Let’s not pretend these parents aren’t prepping their kids for the two tests which are meant to be taken totally unprepped, or that they’re not “contributing” to their children’s work samples, and when all else fails they’ll pay for and prep their kid for an IQ test…)

The problem is then everyone pretends that all of the kids left behind are getting an adequate and appropriate education. Wrong! The average, above average, and poor gifted kids are being left to flounder jn gen ed which is essentially remedial at this point. But the rich “gifted” kids are at centers so I guess all is well.

All the kids are taking the same standardized tests. They all have equal access to the same programs. If you are able to demonstrate a high level of knowledge in subjects, it makes perfect sense to be able to receive a higher level of acceleration and material taught. Just the same if a child tests low, remedial measures are put in place.

So you prepped your kids for the tests. That is essentially cheating - it is not indicative of your child’s giftedness. Which, again, is a HUGE part of the problem.

(Also, does no one else think it’s insane to basically permanently track kids at ages 6-7? Johnny didn’t score as well on a test he didn’t prepare for in second grade [because you’re not supposed to prepare for it] as Timmy whose Mommy was giving him practice tests for three months, so Johnny is essentially screwed for the the rest of his time in FCPS?)

To get rid of APP, everyone needs to vote for the Democrat-backed candidates running for school board positions.

The republicans will only keep AAP in place.

Vote D and put an end to AAP.

Although I agree the GOP is usually okay with segregation, this is accurate. I've looked at the candidate's platform and haven't seen anything about eliminating AAP.

Segregation is a result of individual learning preferences. Students who prefer a standard pace opt for a regular class, while those seeking a more in-depth understanding choose to enroll in Honors class for the same subject. And, students who aim to take their learning to an advanced level decide to join corresponding AP class. This segregation of students into these various classes happens because of student's choice and their learning preference.

But politicians want their sheep followers to take note of race of students in these three different classes, and what skin color is majority and what other skin color is out numbered especially in the advanced class, to drive a wedge between racial groups.

Or maybe they just want a fair system that elevates all students and helps them develop their ptoential

The truth is that that system exists but it is not accessed by many families in ES because the parents are not engaged. Teachers are allowed to refer kids for LIV because there is a concern about deserving kids who did not hit the in-pool score not being referred by parents. The recent change to localized in-pool scores is an effort to get more kids in front of the committee who were not in the past because their test scores were not high enough. Young Scholars is more active at Title 1 schools then it is at UMC schools for a reason. Class sizes are intentionally small at Title 1 schools for a reason.

But you need the parents to buy in and encourage their kids. Get their kids to school. Care about their grades and activities at school. And that is missing at most Title 1 schools.

It is not because the parents don’t love their kids, because they do. But the parents are trying to take care of their families and don’t have time for meetings and info sessions and parent teacher conferences. The parents don’t have the money to enroll their kids in after school activities at the school and probably don’t have the time to research scholarships for their kid. They sure don’t have the time to run math club or STEM Scouts or some other enrichment activity. Most importantly, the parents don’t have an education themselves and do not value a high school degree.

A kid at a Title 1 school who shows any interest in school is going to receive so much help and encouragement and you can only help that will take them into HS and beyond because the likelihood that they get that support at home is small.

The problem with the current system is a lot of families with means are able to access this programming through appeals, prep or providing outside diagnosis to bolster their claims of giftedness.

Exactly it provides a way around desegregation laws. Families with money have their kids put into AAP whereas those without are in gened. It's that simple.

This is an incredibly obtuse take. I personally know lower income children who not only got in but thrived in AAP. Stop making stuff up.

Sure there are a few rare exceptions, but AAP has a much lower FARMS rate than Gen-ed. It is a way to segregate the rich from the poor. That isn't even up for debate.

Because of much stronger family support, many AAP kids are ready for more material at a greater rate. Yes some are truly gifted, but others are just more educated even if not necessarily naturally smarter.

Current AAP needs dedicated focus on who are not there but need to be there, like FARMS, gen-ed, poor, title-1, and whoever. To make space for the deserving, should the current upper half of AAP students be moved to somewhere else, like a newly created AAP level Five to Ten program?

Don’t care. If we can get more effective differentiation, then great. I’m just saying that the reality, strong families create strong students and AAP reflects this. It’s not wrong, but it is reality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AAP is not a gifted program. It is mainly a way for parents with means to get their kids segregated from the poor kids, disguised as a gifted program. (Let’s not pretend these parents aren’t prepping their kids for the two tests which are meant to be taken totally unprepped, or that they’re not “contributing” to their children’s work samples, and when all else fails they’ll pay for and prep their kid for an IQ test…)

The problem is then everyone pretends that all of the kids left behind are getting an adequate and appropriate education. Wrong! The average, above average, and poor gifted kids are being left to flounder jn gen ed which is essentially remedial at this point. But the rich “gifted” kids are at centers so I guess all is well.

All the kids are taking the same standardized tests. They all have equal access to the same programs. If you are able to demonstrate a high level of knowledge in subjects, it makes perfect sense to be able to receive a higher level of acceleration and material taught. Just the same if a child tests low, remedial measures are put in place.

So you prepped your kids for the tests. That is essentially cheating - it is not indicative of your child’s giftedness. Which, again, is a HUGE part of the problem.

(Also, does no one else think it’s insane to basically permanently track kids at ages 6-7? Johnny didn’t score as well on a test he didn’t prepare for in second grade [because you’re not supposed to prepare for it] as Timmy whose Mommy was giving him practice tests for three months, so Johnny is essentially screwed for the the rest of his time in FCPS?)

To get rid of APP, everyone needs to vote for the Democrat-backed candidates running for school board positions.

The republicans will only keep AAP in place.

Vote D and put an end to AAP.

Although I agree the GOP is usually okay with segregation, this is accurate. I've looked at the candidate's platform and haven't seen anything about eliminating AAP.

Segregation is a result of individual learning preferences. Students who prefer a standard pace opt for a regular class, while those seeking a more in-depth understanding choose to enroll in Honors class for the same subject. And, students who aim to take their learning to an advanced level decide to join corresponding AP class. This segregation of students into these various classes happens because of student's choice and their learning preference.

But politicians want their sheep followers to take note of race of students in these three different classes, and what skin color is majority and what other skin color is out numbered especially in the advanced class, to drive a wedge between racial groups.

Or maybe they just want a fair system that elevates all students and helps them develop their ptoential

The truth is that that system exists but it is not accessed by many families in ES because the parents are not engaged. Teachers are allowed to refer kids for LIV because there is a concern about deserving kids who did not hit the in-pool score not being referred by parents. The recent change to localized in-pool scores is an effort to get more kids in front of the committee who were not in the past because their test scores were not high enough. Young Scholars is more active at Title 1 schools then it is at UMC schools for a reason. Class sizes are intentionally small at Title 1 schools for a reason.

But you need the parents to buy in and encourage their kids. Get their kids to school. Care about their grades and activities at school. And that is missing at most Title 1 schools.

It is not because the parents don’t love their kids, because they do. But the parents are trying to take care of their families and don’t have time for meetings and info sessions and parent teacher conferences. The parents don’t have the money to enroll their kids in after school activities at the school and probably don’t have the time to research scholarships for their kid. They sure don’t have the time to run math club or STEM Scouts or some other enrichment activity. Most importantly, the parents don’t have an education themselves and do not value a high school degree.

A kid at a Title 1 school who shows any interest in school is going to receive so much help and encouragement and you can only help that will take them into HS and beyond because the likelihood that they get that support at home is small.

The problem with the current system is a lot of families with means are able to access this programming through appeals, prep or providing outside diagnosis to bolster their claims of giftedness.

Exactly it provides a way around desegregation laws. Families with money have their kids put into AAP whereas those without are in gened. It's that simple.

This is an incredibly obtuse take. I personally know lower income children who not only got in but thrived in AAP. Stop making stuff up.

Sure there are a few rare exceptions, but AAP has a much lower FARMS rate than Gen-ed. It is a way to segregate the rich from the poor. That isn't even up for debate.

Because of much stronger family support, many AAP kids are ready for more material at a greater rate. Yes some are truly gifted, but others are just more educated even if not necessarily naturally smarter.

Current AAP needs dedicated focus on who are not there but need to be there, like FARMS, gen-ed, poor, title-1, and whoever. To make space for the deserving, should the current upper half of AAP students be moved to somewhere else, like a newly created AAP level Five to Ten program?

Don’t care. If we can get more effective differentiation, then great. I’m just saying that the reality, strong families create strong students and AAP reflects this. It’s not wrong, but it is reality.

But it is wrong.

AAP is not equity, so it needs to be phased out. Luckily, that is already happening.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AAP is not a gifted program. It is mainly a way for parents with means to get their kids segregated from the poor kids, disguised as a gifted program. (Let’s not pretend these parents aren’t prepping their kids for the two tests which are meant to be taken totally unprepped, or that they’re not “contributing” to their children’s work samples, and when all else fails they’ll pay for and prep their kid for an IQ test…)

The problem is then everyone pretends that all of the kids left behind are getting an adequate and appropriate education. Wrong! The average, above average, and poor gifted kids are being left to flounder jn gen ed which is essentially remedial at this point. But the rich “gifted” kids are at centers so I guess all is well.

All the kids are taking the same standardized tests. They all have equal access to the same programs. If you are able to demonstrate a high level of knowledge in subjects, it makes perfect sense to be able to receive a higher level of acceleration and material taught. Just the same if a child tests low, remedial measures are put in place.

So you prepped your kids for the tests. That is essentially cheating - it is not indicative of your child’s giftedness. Which, again, is a HUGE part of the problem.

(Also, does no one else think it’s insane to basically permanently track kids at ages 6-7? Johnny didn’t score as well on a test he didn’t prepare for in second grade [because you’re not supposed to prepare for it] as Timmy whose Mommy was giving him practice tests for three months, so Johnny is essentially screwed for the the rest of his time in FCPS?)

To get rid of APP, everyone needs to vote for the Democrat-backed candidates running for school board positions.

The republicans will only keep AAP in place.

Vote D and put an end to AAP.

Although I agree the GOP is usually okay with segregation, this is accurate. I've looked at the candidate's platform and haven't seen anything about eliminating AAP.

Segregation is a result of individual learning preferences. Students who prefer a standard pace opt for a regular class, while those seeking a more in-depth understanding choose to enroll in Honors class for the same subject. And, students who aim to take their learning to an advanced level decide to join corresponding AP class. This segregation of students into these various classes happens because of student's choice and their learning preference.

But politicians want their sheep followers to take note of race of students in these three different classes, and what skin color is majority and what other skin color is out numbered especially in the advanced class, to drive a wedge between racial groups.

Or maybe they just want a fair system that elevates all students and helps them develop their ptoential

The truth is that that system exists but it is not accessed by many families in ES because the parents are not engaged. Teachers are allowed to refer kids for LIV because there is a concern about deserving kids who did not hit the in-pool score not being referred by parents. The recent change to localized in-pool scores is an effort to get more kids in front of the committee who were not in the past because their test scores were not high enough. Young Scholars is more active at Title 1 schools then it is at UMC schools for a reason. Class sizes are intentionally small at Title 1 schools for a reason.

But you need the parents to buy in and encourage their kids. Get their kids to school. Care about their grades and activities at school. And that is missing at most Title 1 schools.

It is not because the parents don’t love their kids, because they do. But the parents are trying to take care of their families and don’t have time for meetings and info sessions and parent teacher conferences. The parents don’t have the money to enroll their kids in after school activities at the school and probably don’t have the time to research scholarships for their kid. They sure don’t have the time to run math club or STEM Scouts or some other enrichment activity. Most importantly, the parents don’t have an education themselves and do not value a high school degree.

A kid at a Title 1 school who shows any interest in school is going to receive so much help and encouragement and you can only help that will take them into HS and beyond because the likelihood that they get that support at home is small.

The problem with the current system is a lot of families with means are able to access this programming through appeals, prep or providing outside diagnosis to bolster their claims of giftedness.

Exactly it provides a way around desegregation laws. Families with money have their kids put into AAP whereas those without are in gened. It's that simple.

This is an incredibly obtuse take. I personally know lower income children who not only got in but thrived in AAP. Stop making stuff up.

Sure there are a few rare exceptions, but AAP has a much lower FARMS rate than Gen-ed. It is a way to segregate the rich from the poor. That isn't even up for debate.

Agree that may be an effect, but that doesn't mean it's the intent/motivation. The motivation/intent is to meet kids where they are. If you think the entire program is driven by a desire for socioeconomic segregation, then we live in different worlds. Housing policy and choices and school boundaries have FAR more to do with socioeconomic segregation than the AAP/GenEd split does within a given school.

Of course it's not the intent but it is the result.AAP ends up being socioeconomic segregation.

It's unfortunate that this is true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AAP is not a gifted program. It is mainly a way for parents with means to get their kids segregated from the poor kids, disguised as a gifted program. (Let’s not pretend these parents aren’t prepping their kids for the two tests which are meant to be taken totally unprepped, or that they’re not “contributing” to their children’s work samples, and when all else fails they’ll pay for and prep their kid for an IQ test…)

The problem is then everyone pretends that all of the kids left behind are getting an adequate and appropriate education. Wrong! The average, above average, and poor gifted kids are being left to flounder jn gen ed which is essentially remedial at this point. But the rich “gifted” kids are at centers so I guess all is well.

All the kids are taking the same standardized tests. They all have equal access to the same programs. If you are able to demonstrate a high level of knowledge in subjects, it makes perfect sense to be able to receive a higher level of acceleration and material taught. Just the same if a child tests low, remedial measures are put in place.

So you prepped your kids for the tests. That is essentially cheating - it is not indicative of your child’s giftedness. Which, again, is a HUGE part of the problem.

(Also, does no one else think it’s insane to basically permanently track kids at ages 6-7? Johnny didn’t score as well on a test he didn’t prepare for in second grade [because you’re not supposed to prepare for it] as Timmy whose Mommy was giving him practice tests for three months, so Johnny is essentially screwed for the the rest of his time in FCPS?)

To get rid of APP, everyone needs to vote for the Democrat-backed candidates running for school board positions.

The republicans will only keep AAP in place.

Vote D and put an end to AAP.

Although I agree the GOP is usually okay with segregation, this is accurate. I've looked at the candidate's platform and haven't seen anything about eliminating AAP.

Segregation is a result of individual learning preferences. Students who prefer a standard pace opt for a regular class, while those seeking a more in-depth understanding choose to enroll in Honors class for the same subject. And, students who aim to take their learning to an advanced level decide to join corresponding AP class. This segregation of students into these various classes happens because of student's choice and their learning preference.

But politicians want their sheep followers to take note of race of students in these three different classes, and what skin color is majority and what other skin color is out numbered especially in the advanced class, to drive a wedge between racial groups.

Or maybe they just want a fair system that elevates all students and helps them develop their ptoential

The truth is that that system exists but it is not accessed by many families in ES because the parents are not engaged. Teachers are allowed to refer kids for LIV because there is a concern about deserving kids who did not hit the in-pool score not being referred by parents. The recent change to localized in-pool scores is an effort to get more kids in front of the committee who were not in the past because their test scores were not high enough. Young Scholars is more active at Title 1 schools then it is at UMC schools for a reason. Class sizes are intentionally small at Title 1 schools for a reason.

But you need the parents to buy in and encourage their kids. Get their kids to school. Care about their grades and activities at school. And that is missing at most Title 1 schools.

It is not because the parents don’t love their kids, because they do. But the parents are trying to take care of their families and don’t have time for meetings and info sessions and parent teacher conferences. The parents don’t have the money to enroll their kids in after school activities at the school and probably don’t have the time to research scholarships for their kid. They sure don’t have the time to run math club or STEM Scouts or some other enrichment activity. Most importantly, the parents don’t have an education themselves and do not value a high school degree.

A kid at a Title 1 school who shows any interest in school is going to receive so much help and encouragement and you can only help that will take them into HS and beyond because the likelihood that they get that support at home is small.

The problem with the current system is a lot of families with means are able to access this programming through appeals, prep or providing outside diagnosis to bolster their claims of giftedness.

Exactly it provides a way around desegregation laws. Families with money have their kids put into AAP whereas those without are in gened. It's that simple.

This is an incredibly obtuse take. I personally know lower income children who not only got in but thrived in AAP. Stop making stuff up.

Sure there are a few rare exceptions, but AAP has a much lower FARMS rate than Gen-ed. It is a way to segregate the rich from the poor. That isn't even up for debate.

Agree that may be an effect, but that doesn't mean it's the intent/motivation. The motivation/intent is to meet kids where they are. If you think the entire program is driven by a desire for socioeconomic segregation, then we live in different worlds. Housing policy and choices and school boundaries have FAR more to do with socioeconomic segregation than the AAP/GenEd split does within a given school.

Of course it's not the intent but it is the result.AAP ends up being socioeconomic segregation.

It's unfortunate that this is true.

I wonder where you are in the county. Because that's not what I see at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AAP is not a gifted program. It is mainly a way for parents with means to get their kids segregated from the poor kids, disguised as a gifted program. (Let’s not pretend these parents aren’t prepping their kids for the two tests which are meant to be taken totally unprepped, or that they’re not “contributing” to their children’s work samples, and when all else fails they’ll pay for and prep their kid for an IQ test…)

The problem is then everyone pretends that all of the kids left behind are getting an adequate and appropriate education. Wrong! The average, above average, and poor gifted kids are being left to flounder jn gen ed which is essentially remedial at this point. But the rich “gifted” kids are at centers so I guess all is well.

All the kids are taking the same standardized tests. They all have equal access to the same programs. If you are able to demonstrate a high level of knowledge in subjects, it makes perfect sense to be able to receive a higher level of acceleration and material taught. Just the same if a child tests low, remedial measures are put in place.

So you prepped your kids for the tests. That is essentially cheating - it is not indicative of your child’s giftedness. Which, again, is a HUGE part of the problem.

(Also, does no one else think it’s insane to basically permanently track kids at ages 6-7? Johnny didn’t score as well on a test he didn’t prepare for in second grade [because you’re not supposed to prepare for it] as Timmy whose Mommy was giving him practice tests for three months, so Johnny is essentially screwed for the the rest of his time in FCPS?)

To get rid of APP, everyone needs to vote for the Democrat-backed candidates running for school board positions.

The republicans will only keep AAP in place.

Vote D and put an end to AAP.

Although I agree the GOP is usually okay with segregation, this is accurate. I've looked at the candidate's platform and haven't seen anything about eliminating AAP.

Segregation is a result of individual learning preferences. Students who prefer a standard pace opt for a regular class, while those seeking a more in-depth understanding choose to enroll in Honors class for the same subject. And, students who aim to take their learning to an advanced level decide to join corresponding AP class. This segregation of students into these various classes happens because of student's choice and their learning preference.

But politicians want their sheep followers to take note of race of students in these three different classes, and what skin color is majority and what other skin color is out numbered especially in the advanced class, to drive a wedge between racial groups.

Or maybe they just want a fair system that elevates all students and helps them develop their ptoential

The truth is that that system exists but it is not accessed by many families in ES because the parents are not engaged. Teachers are allowed to refer kids for LIV because there is a concern about deserving kids who did not hit the in-pool score not being referred by parents. The recent change to localized in-pool scores is an effort to get more kids in front of the committee who were not in the past because their test scores were not high enough. Young Scholars is more active at Title 1 schools then it is at UMC schools for a reason. Class sizes are intentionally small at Title 1 schools for a reason.

But you need the parents to buy in and encourage their kids. Get their kids to school. Care about their grades and activities at school. And that is missing at most Title 1 schools.

It is not because the parents don’t love their kids, because they do. But the parents are trying to take care of their families and don’t have time for meetings and info sessions and parent teacher conferences. The parents don’t have the money to enroll their kids in after school activities at the school and probably don’t have the time to research scholarships for their kid. They sure don’t have the time to run math club or STEM Scouts or some other enrichment activity. Most importantly, the parents don’t have an education themselves and do not value a high school degree.

A kid at a Title 1 school who shows any interest in school is going to receive so much help and encouragement and you can only help that will take them into HS and beyond because the likelihood that they get that support at home is small.

The problem with the current system is a lot of families with means are able to access this programming through appeals, prep or providing outside diagnosis to bolster their claims of giftedness.

Exactly it provides a way around desegregation laws. Families with money have their kids put into AAP whereas those without are in gened. It's that simple.

This is an incredibly obtuse take. I personally know lower income children who not only got in but thrived in AAP. Stop making stuff up.

Sure there are a few rare exceptions, but AAP has a much lower FARMS rate than Gen-ed. It is a way to segregate the rich from the poor. That isn't even up for debate.

Agree that may be an effect, but that doesn't mean it's the intent/motivation. The motivation/intent is to meet kids where they are. If you think the entire program is driven by a desire for socioeconomic segregation, then we live in different worlds. Housing policy and choices and school boundaries have FAR more to do with socioeconomic segregation than the AAP/GenEd split does within a given school.

Of course it's not the intent but it is the result.AAP ends up being socioeconomic segregation.

It's unfortunate that this is true.

I wonder where you are in the county. Because that's not what I see at all.

FCPS and it's exactly what I see everytime I go to my kids AAP center. A bunch of kids from wealthy families segregated from the rest of the county.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AAP is not a gifted program. It is mainly a way for parents with means to get their kids segregated from the poor kids, disguised as a gifted program. (Let’s not pretend these parents aren’t prepping their kids for the two tests which are meant to be taken totally unprepped, or that they’re not “contributing” to their children’s work samples, and when all else fails they’ll pay for and prep their kid for an IQ test…)

The problem is then everyone pretends that all of the kids left behind are getting an adequate and appropriate education. Wrong! The average, above average, and poor gifted kids are being left to flounder jn gen ed which is essentially remedial at this point. But the rich “gifted” kids are at centers so I guess all is well.

All the kids are taking the same standardized tests. They all have equal access to the same programs. If you are able to demonstrate a high level of knowledge in subjects, it makes perfect sense to be able to receive a higher level of acceleration and material taught. Just the same if a child tests low, remedial measures are put in place.

So you prepped your kids for the tests. That is essentially cheating - it is not indicative of your child’s giftedness. Which, again, is a HUGE part of the problem.

(Also, does no one else think it’s insane to basically permanently track kids at ages 6-7? Johnny didn’t score as well on a test he didn’t prepare for in second grade [because you’re not supposed to prepare for it] as Timmy whose Mommy was giving him practice tests for three months, so Johnny is essentially screwed for the the rest of his time in FCPS?)

To get rid of APP, everyone needs to vote for the Democrat-backed candidates running for school board positions.

The republicans will only keep AAP in place.

Vote D and put an end to AAP.

Although I agree the GOP is usually okay with segregation, this is accurate. I've looked at the candidate's platform and haven't seen anything about eliminating AAP.

Segregation is a result of individual learning preferences. Students who prefer a standard pace opt for a regular class, while those seeking a more in-depth understanding choose to enroll in Honors class for the same subject. And, students who aim to take their learning to an advanced level decide to join corresponding AP class. This segregation of students into these various classes happens because of student's choice and their learning preference.

But politicians want their sheep followers to take note of race of students in these three different classes, and what skin color is majority and what other skin color is out numbered especially in the advanced class, to drive a wedge between racial groups.

Or maybe they just want a fair system that elevates all students and helps them develop their ptoential

The truth is that that system exists but it is not accessed by many families in ES because the parents are not engaged. Teachers are allowed to refer kids for LIV because there is a concern about deserving kids who did not hit the in-pool score not being referred by parents. The recent change to localized in-pool scores is an effort to get more kids in front of the committee who were not in the past because their test scores were not high enough. Young Scholars is more active at Title 1 schools then it is at UMC schools for a reason. Class sizes are intentionally small at Title 1 schools for a reason.

But you need the parents to buy in and encourage their kids. Get their kids to school. Care about their grades and activities at school. And that is missing at most Title 1 schools.

It is not because the parents don’t love their kids, because they do. But the parents are trying to take care of their families and don’t have time for meetings and info sessions and parent teacher conferences. The parents don’t have the money to enroll their kids in after school activities at the school and probably don’t have the time to research scholarships for their kid. They sure don’t have the time to run math club or STEM Scouts or some other enrichment activity. Most importantly, the parents don’t have an education themselves and do not value a high school degree.

A kid at a Title 1 school who shows any interest in school is going to receive so much help and encouragement and you can only help that will take them into HS and beyond because the likelihood that they get that support at home is small.

The problem with the current system is a lot of families with means are able to access this programming through appeals, prep or providing outside diagnosis to bolster their claims of giftedness.

Exactly it provides a way around desegregation laws. Families with money have their kids put into AAP whereas those without are in gened. It's that simple.

This is an incredibly obtuse take. I personally know lower income children who not only got in but thrived in AAP. Stop making stuff up.

Sure there are a few rare exceptions, but AAP has a much lower FARMS rate than Gen-ed. It is a way to segregate the rich from the poor. That isn't even up for debate.

Agree that may be an effect, but that doesn't mean it's the intent/motivation. The motivation/intent is to meet kids where they are. If you think the entire program is driven by a desire for socioeconomic segregation, then we live in different worlds. Housing policy and choices and school boundaries have FAR more to do with socioeconomic segregation than the AAP/GenEd split does within a given school.

Of course it's not the intent but it is the result.AAP ends up being socioeconomic segregation.

It's unfortunate that this is true.

I wonder where you are in the county. Because that's not what I see at all.

FCPS and it's exactly what I see everytime I go to my kids AAP center. A bunch of kids from wealthy families segregated from the rest of the county.

In your spot of the county. My spot isn't like that at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AAP is not a gifted program. It is mainly a way for parents with means to get their kids segregated from the poor kids, disguised as a gifted program. (Let’s not pretend these parents aren’t prepping their kids for the two tests which are meant to be taken totally unprepped, or that they’re not “contributing” to their children’s work samples, and when all else fails they’ll pay for and prep their kid for an IQ test…)

The problem is then everyone pretends that all of the kids left behind are getting an adequate and appropriate education. Wrong! The average, above average, and poor gifted kids are being left to flounder jn gen ed which is essentially remedial at this point. But the rich “gifted” kids are at centers so I guess all is well.

All the kids are taking the same standardized tests. They all have equal access to the same programs. If you are able to demonstrate a high level of knowledge in subjects, it makes perfect sense to be able to receive a higher level of acceleration and material taught. Just the same if a child tests low, remedial measures are put in place.

So you prepped your kids for the tests. That is essentially cheating - it is not indicative of your child’s giftedness. Which, again, is a HUGE part of the problem.

(Also, does no one else think it’s insane to basically permanently track kids at ages 6-7? Johnny didn’t score as well on a test he didn’t prepare for in second grade [because you’re not supposed to prepare for it] as Timmy whose Mommy was giving him practice tests for three months, so Johnny is essentially screwed for the the rest of his time in FCPS?)

To get rid of APP, everyone needs to vote for the Democrat-backed candidates running for school board positions.

The republicans will only keep AAP in place.

Vote D and put an end to AAP.

Although I agree the GOP is usually okay with segregation, this is accurate. I've looked at the candidate's platform and haven't seen anything about eliminating AAP.

Segregation is a result of individual learning preferences. Students who prefer a standard pace opt for a regular class, while those seeking a more in-depth understanding choose to enroll in Honors class for the same subject. And, students who aim to take their learning to an advanced level decide to join corresponding AP class. This segregation of students into these various classes happens because of student's choice and their learning preference.

But politicians want their sheep followers to take note of race of students in these three different classes, and what skin color is majority and what other skin color is out numbered especially in the advanced class, to drive a wedge between racial groups.

Or maybe they just want a fair system that elevates all students and helps them develop their ptoential

The truth is that that system exists but it is not accessed by many families in ES because the parents are not engaged. Teachers are allowed to refer kids for LIV because there is a concern about deserving kids who did not hit the in-pool score not being referred by parents. The recent change to localized in-pool scores is an effort to get more kids in front of the committee who were not in the past because their test scores were not high enough. Young Scholars is more active at Title 1 schools then it is at UMC schools for a reason. Class sizes are intentionally small at Title 1 schools for a reason.

But you need the parents to buy in and encourage their kids. Get their kids to school. Care about their grades and activities at school. And that is missing at most Title 1 schools.

It is not because the parents don’t love their kids, because they do. But the parents are trying to take care of their families and don’t have time for meetings and info sessions and parent teacher conferences. The parents don’t have the money to enroll their kids in after school activities at the school and probably don’t have the time to research scholarships for their kid. They sure don’t have the time to run math club or STEM Scouts or some other enrichment activity. Most importantly, the parents don’t have an education themselves and do not value a high school degree.

A kid at a Title 1 school who shows any interest in school is going to receive so much help and encouragement and you can only help that will take them into HS and beyond because the likelihood that they get that support at home is small.

The problem with the current system is a lot of families with means are able to access this programming through appeals, prep or providing outside diagnosis to bolster their claims of giftedness.

Exactly it provides a way around desegregation laws. Families with money have their kids put into AAP whereas those without are in gened. It's that simple.

This is an incredibly obtuse take. I personally know lower income children who not only got in but thrived in AAP. Stop making stuff up.

Sure there are a few rare exceptions, but AAP has a much lower FARMS rate than Gen-ed. It is a way to segregate the rich from the poor. That isn't even up for debate.

Agree that may be an effect, but that doesn't mean it's the intent/motivation. The motivation/intent is to meet kids where they are. If you think the entire program is driven by a desire for socioeconomic segregation, then we live in different worlds. Housing policy and choices and school boundaries have FAR more to do with socioeconomic segregation than the AAP/GenEd split does within a given school.

Of course it's not the intent but it is the result.AAP ends up being socioeconomic segregation.

It's unfortunate that this is true.

I wonder where you are in the county. Because that's not what I see at all.

FCPS and it's exactly what I see everytime I go to my kids AAP center. A bunch of kids from wealthy families segregated from the rest of the county.

And that’s OK. Those kids didn’t choose their parents and can’t help being more prepared for education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I found this article so moving:

https://tcf.org/content/commentary/gifted-talented-programs-not-path-equity/

And the arguments made are so compelling.

Don’t you agree this also applies to the AAP program? Should we find ways to phase it out, and offer the same opportunities to every learner in FCPS ?

I don’t know about “moving” but it’s certainly depressing.
But, certainly those who buy into equity as a societal goal would have to agree that curriculum tailored to individual learning needs (especially when targeting accelerated learners) has got to go eventually.
Next up will be music programs. (Is it fair that the ones who play in the top school bands and orchestras are the students who can afford to pay for private instruction? Well then we better not make placement in a top band or orchestra dependent upon an audition, because some kids have access to instruction that others don’t have and it is t fair.
The last domino to fall will be sports. But I suspect that’s where people will finally draw the line with this nonsense of equity.
I’m all about creating opportunities. But controlling for outcome is insane, as there are so many factors that can go into why/how someone is “successful” in a given area…
Opportunity is just one of those…but natural ability, Drive, dedication and commitment of time to practice your sport/craft/study are all valid factors as well.

Very well put.

In almost all areas of life, having money would give one an advantage. A motivated highly educated parent with high family income can help a child a lot more than economically disadvantaged parent. Tutors, private instruction, coaches all make it tough for lower income families to compete on an equal basis. Life is unfair.

The question is how to make it less unfair. The equity diehards think just eliminating tests, advanced academics, etc is the way to go because it is easy and it just masks the disadvantages.

No home work, no testing, less rigorous grading makes everyone look pretty equal.

They dont want to do the hard work. How about extra support? Additional period for children falling behind? How about private tutoring after school hours?

That takes too long. Instead they just spout DEI nonsense.

We have all that. Visit a lower income middle or high school and look at the staff parking lot. They are there 4 days a week with kids after school, in small group targeted remediation sessions, feeding kids “supper” to keep bellies full since late buses don’t come until 5 and kids got to school at 7. Elective blocks are taken with second math or reading classes, kids eat lunch in teachers’ rooms to be read to while eating since that has been shown to improve literacy. Staffing ratios are lower to keep classes more reasonable (25 kids vs 32). There are mentoring programs where staff volunteer to spend time and money showing these at risk kids things they haven’t gotten a chance to experience—sit down restaurants, a theater performance, visiting the monuments downtown.

It’s not enough. It will never be enough.

Life isn’t fair and it sucks but we cannot be everything to everyone.

Getting rid of testing isn’t the answer either, but the idea that decades of generational trauma and poverty can be overcome with an hour a day of one on one academic support for a few years isn’t an answer either.

We need to pay for high quality child care from birth.

High quality childcare is incredibly rare even for people who aren’t poor.

You simply can’t make up for what is happening at home with schooling.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:AAP is not a gifted program. It is mainly a way for parents with means to get their kids segregated from the poor kids, disguised as a gifted program. (Let’s not pretend these parents aren’t prepping their kids for the two tests which are meant to be taken totally unprepped, or that they’re not “contributing” to their children’s work samples, and when all else fails they’ll pay for and prep their kid for an IQ test…)

The problem is then everyone pretends that all of the kids left behind are getting an adequate and appropriate education. Wrong! The average, above average, and poor gifted kids are being left to flounder jn gen ed which is essentially remedial at this point. But the rich “gifted” kids are at centers so I guess all is well.

All the kids are taking the same standardized tests. They all have equal access to the same programs. If you are able to demonstrate a high level of knowledge in subjects, it makes perfect sense to be able to receive a higher level of acceleration and material taught. Just the same if a child tests low, remedial measures are put in place.

So you prepped your kids for the tests. That is essentially cheating - it is not indicative of your child’s giftedness. Which, again, is a HUGE part of the problem.

(Also, does no one else think it’s insane to basically permanently track kids at ages 6-7? Johnny didn’t score as well on a test he didn’t prepare for in second grade [because you’re not supposed to prepare for it] as Timmy whose Mommy was giving him practice tests for three months, so Johnny is essentially screwed for the the rest of his time in FCPS?)

To get rid of APP, everyone needs to vote for the Democrat-backed candidates running for school board positions.

The republicans will only keep AAP in place.

Vote D and put an end to AAP.

Although I agree the GOP is usually okay with segregation, this is accurate. I've looked at the candidate's platform and haven't seen anything about eliminating AAP.

Segregation is a result of individual learning preferences. Students who prefer a standard pace opt for a regular class, while those seeking a more in-depth understanding choose to enroll in Honors class for the same subject. And, students who aim to take their learning to an advanced level decide to join corresponding AP class. This segregation of students into these various classes happens because of student's choice and their learning preference.

But politicians want their sheep followers to take note of race of students in these three different classes, and what skin color is majority and what other skin color is out numbered especially in the advanced class, to drive a wedge between racial groups.

Or maybe they just want a fair system that elevates all students and helps them develop their ptoential

The truth is that that system exists but it is not accessed by many families in ES because the parents are not engaged. Teachers are allowed to refer kids for LIV because there is a concern about deserving kids who did not hit the in-pool score not being referred by parents. The recent change to localized in-pool scores is an effort to get more kids in front of the committee who were not in the past because their test scores were not high enough. Young Scholars is more active at Title 1 schools then it is at UMC schools for a reason. Class sizes are intentionally small at Title 1 schools for a reason.

But you need the parents to buy in and encourage their kids. Get their kids to school. Care about their grades and activities at school. And that is missing at most Title 1 schools.

It is not because the parents don’t love their kids, because they do. But the parents are trying to take care of their families and don’t have time for meetings and info sessions and parent teacher conferences. The parents don’t have the money to enroll their kids in after school activities at the school and probably don’t have the time to research scholarships for their kid. They sure don’t have the time to run math club or STEM Scouts or some other enrichment activity. Most importantly, the parents don’t have an education themselves and do not value a high school degree.

A kid at a Title 1 school who shows any interest in school is going to receive so much help and encouragement and you can only help that will take them into HS and beyond because the likelihood that they get that support at home is small.

The problem with the current system is a lot of families with means are able to access this programming through appeals, prep or providing outside diagnosis to bolster their claims of giftedness.

Exactly it provides a way around desegregation laws. Families with money have their kids put into AAP whereas those without are in gened. It's that simple.

This is an incredibly obtuse take. I personally know lower income children who not only got in but thrived in AAP. Stop making stuff up.

Sure there are a few rare exceptions, but AAP has a much lower FARMS rate than Gen-ed. It is a way to segregate the rich from the poor. That isn't even up for debate.

Agree that may be an effect, but that doesn't mean it's the intent/motivation. The motivation/intent is to meet kids where they are. If you think the entire program is driven by a desire for socioeconomic segregation, then we live in different worlds. Housing policy and choices and school boundaries have FAR more to do with socioeconomic segregation than the AAP/GenEd split does within a given school.

Of course it's not the intent but it is the result.AAP ends up being socioeconomic segregation.

It's unfortunate that this is true.

I wonder where you are in the county. Because that's not what I see at all.

It's exactly what I see and is aligned with the statistic that AAP has a lower free lunch percentage than gen ed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AAP is not a gifted program. It is mainly a way for parents with means to get their kids segregated from the poor kids, disguised as a gifted program. (Let’s not pretend these parents aren’t prepping their kids for the two tests which are meant to be taken totally unprepped, or that they’re not “contributing” to their children’s work samples, and when all else fails they’ll pay for and prep their kid for an IQ test…)

The problem is then everyone pretends that all of the kids left behind are getting an adequate and appropriate education. Wrong! The average, above average, and poor gifted kids are being left to flounder jn gen ed which is essentially remedial at this point. But the rich “gifted” kids are at centers so I guess all is well.

All the kids are taking the same standardized tests. They all have equal access to the same programs. If you are able to demonstrate a high level of knowledge in subjects, it makes perfect sense to be able to receive a higher level of acceleration and material taught. Just the same if a child tests low, remedial measures are put in place.

So you prepped your kids for the tests. That is essentially cheating - it is not indicative of your child’s giftedness. Which, again, is a HUGE part of the problem.

(Also, does no one else think it’s insane to basically permanently track kids at ages 6-7? Johnny didn’t score as well on a test he didn’t prepare for in second grade [because you’re not supposed to prepare for it] as Timmy whose Mommy was giving him practice tests for three months, so Johnny is essentially screwed for the the rest of his time in FCPS?)

To get rid of APP, everyone needs to vote for the Democrat-backed candidates running for school board positions.

The republicans will only keep AAP in place.

Vote D and put an end to AAP.

Although I agree the GOP is usually okay with segregation, this is accurate. I've looked at the candidate's platform and haven't seen anything about eliminating AAP.

Segregation is a result of individual learning preferences. Students who prefer a standard pace opt for a regular class, while those seeking a more in-depth understanding choose to enroll in Honors class for the same subject. And, students who aim to take their learning to an advanced level decide to join corresponding AP class. This segregation of students into these various classes happens because of student's choice and their learning preference.

But politicians want their sheep followers to take note of race of students in these three different classes, and what skin color is majority and what other skin color is out numbered especially in the advanced class, to drive a wedge between racial groups.

Or maybe they just want a fair system that elevates all students and helps them develop their ptoential

The truth is that that system exists but it is not accessed by many families in ES because the parents are not engaged. Teachers are allowed to refer kids for LIV because there is a concern about deserving kids who did not hit the in-pool score not being referred by parents. The recent change to localized in-pool scores is an effort to get more kids in front of the committee who were not in the past because their test scores were not high enough. Young Scholars is more active at Title 1 schools then it is at UMC schools for a reason. Class sizes are intentionally small at Title 1 schools for a reason.

But you need the parents to buy in and encourage their kids. Get their kids to school. Care about their grades and activities at school. And that is missing at most Title 1 schools.

It is not because the parents don’t love their kids, because they do. But the parents are trying to take care of their families and don’t have time for meetings and info sessions and parent teacher conferences. The parents don’t have the money to enroll their kids in after school activities at the school and probably don’t have the time to research scholarships for their kid. They sure don’t have the time to run math club or STEM Scouts or some other enrichment activity. Most importantly, the parents don’t have an education themselves and do not value a high school degree.

A kid at a Title 1 school who shows any interest in school is going to receive so much help and encouragement and you can only help that will take them into HS and beyond because the likelihood that they get that support at home is small.

The problem with the current system is a lot of families with means are able to access this programming through appeals, prep or providing outside diagnosis to bolster their claims of giftedness.

Exactly it provides a way around desegregation laws. Families with money have their kids put into AAP whereas those without are in gened. It's that simple.

This is an incredibly obtuse take. I personally know lower income children who not only got in but thrived in AAP. Stop making stuff up.

Sure there are a few rare exceptions, but AAP has a much lower FARMS rate than Gen-ed. It is a way to segregate the rich from the poor. That isn't even up for debate.

Agree that may be an effect, but that doesn't mean it's the intent/motivation. The motivation/intent is to meet kids where they are. If you think the entire program is driven by a desire for socioeconomic segregation, then we live in different worlds. Housing policy and choices and school boundaries have FAR more to do with socioeconomic segregation than the AAP/GenEd split does within a given school.

Of course it's not the intent but it is the result.AAP ends up being socioeconomic segregation.

It's unfortunate that this is true.

I wonder where you are in the county. Because that's not what I see at all.

FCPS and it's exactly what I see everytime I go to my kids AAP center. A bunch of kids from wealthy families segregated from the rest of the county.

And that’s OK. Those kids didn’t choose their parents and can’t help being more prepared for education.

This program only widens the achievement gap.