Serious Answers Only—How to Fix MCPS?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids have been in MCPS for 15 years and I’m just disgusted by the decline. Wondering if anyone has ideas to fix the many problems in MCPS?

It's only broken in the imagination of especially high-maintenance privileged parents who are the real problem.

+1000 Many of these posters would be unhappy in paradise.

They hate it when anyone who has a different experience speaks up—for example, our family values education. We parent and have high expectations of our children. Our kids are flourishing in MCPS.

In which HS pyramid? The experience may be different for a similar family in a different part of the county, and that is among the problems that should be addressed.

MD operates schools on a county basis, not a town basis, as with some other states. The experience/opportunities throughout the county, while not exactly the same, should be reasonably similar.

One child is at Blair SMCS program the other is at Wheaton Engineering.

Good that there was an acceptance and a match. Dedicated/enriched programs that support your children's interests can offer a different experience. Was that the case in ES (HGC/CES) and/or MS (magnets)? There aren't really enough seats in these at any level to address needs/capabilities.

I presume you are inbounds DCC, then, for the Wheaton match, unless there was a COSA or unless I've got the wrong idea and it's available beyond the consortium in the same way as SMCS. (Please correct me, there, if so.) That's got a very large number of feeder ES's, and I wouldn't want to pin you to one (which is why I asked for the HS pyramid instead of the ES), but, aside from any magnet experience, did you find the school(s) provided challenging instruction, or was it mostly things done outside of school that provided enrichment?

In early ES, I had to shoulder more of the burden, but that was fine. We were at a Title 1 school, so classes were small. Later, kids went through programs like CES or the TPMS magnet. They found opportunities that provided a fine experience. This seems available to anyone with motivation and interest.

There have been fewer spots in those magnets than the need for a long time, and, with the lottery approach, having the motivation is a crapshoot. That approach essentially sees MCPS admitting to the relative paucity of seats -- anyone in the pool qualifies, but there are only spots for a fraction.

Possibly that was instituted after your children went through? Perhaps they got a lucky bounce, or were in-catchment for TPMS/PBES, which gave them a much better chance of getting a magnet slot than elsewhere in the county?

In any case, the need you cited about pre-magnet home burden might be more typical of the experience of folks not fortunate enough to have the magnet ball bounce their way or be in schools that have not experienced decline. I'm not saying that MCPS is terrible, as the OP suggests, but I think it's irresponsible to insinuate that any concern comes from privilege rather than the possibility of truly negative experience, or that that negative experience must be an aberration.

There is no real decline. That only exists in your imagination. Scores for SES bands have remained constant or improved over recent years.

Way to cram a couple of logical fallacies into a few sentences!

All in folks imagination? Of course! Why didn't I think of that?!

Or it could be that, despite MCPS having a generally good quality of education, there are real problems that should be addressed to avoid or reverse declines versus the relative experience of a couple of decades ago, that maintenance/upticks in SES-band scores over the past couple of years have more to do with pandemic recovery than would an apples-to-apples comparison, that the quality of education available is too variable across schools in the system, that some people's experiences have been different from others', that criticism is not coming only from entitlement/privelege, and that people should not be denigrated for expressing those lived-experience thoughts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids have been in MCPS for 15 years and I’m just disgusted by the decline. Wondering if anyone has ideas to fix the many problems in MCPS?

It's only broken in the imagination of especially high-maintenance privileged parents who are the real problem.

+1000 Many of these posters would be unhappy in paradise.

They hate it when anyone who has a different experience speaks up—for example, our family values education. We parent and have high expectations of our children. Our kids are flourishing in MCPS.

In which HS pyramid? The experience may be different for a similar family in a different part of the county, and that is among the problems that should be addressed.

MD operates schools on a county basis, not a town basis, as with some other states. The experience/opportunities throughout the county, while not exactly the same, should be reasonably similar.

One child is at Blair SMCS program the other is at Wheaton Engineering.

Good that there was an acceptance and a match. Dedicated/enriched programs that support your children's interests can offer a different experience. Was that the case in ES (HGC/CES) and/or MS (magnets)? There aren't really enough seats in these at any level to address needs/capabilities.

I presume you are inbounds DCC, then, for the Wheaton match, unless there was a COSA or unless I've got the wrong idea and it's available beyond the consortium in the same way as SMCS. (Please correct me, there, if so.) That's got a very large number of feeder ES's, and I wouldn't want to pin you to one (which is why I asked for the HS pyramid instead of the ES), but, aside from any magnet experience, did you find the school(s) provided challenging instruction, or was it mostly things done outside of school that provided enrichment?

In early ES, I had to shoulder more of the burden, but that was fine. We were at a Title 1 school, so classes were small. Later, kids went through programs like CES or the TPMS magnet. They found opportunities that provided a fine experience. This seems available to anyone with motivation and interest.

There have been fewer spots in those magnets than the need for a long time, and, with the lottery approach, having the motivation is a crapshoot. That approach essentially sees MCPS admitting to the relative paucity of seats -- anyone in the pool qualifies, but there are only spots for a fraction.

Possibly that was instituted after your children went through? Perhaps they got a lucky bounce, or were in-catchment for TPMS/PBES, which gave them a much better chance of getting a magnet slot than elsewhere in the county?

In any case, the need you cited about pre-magnet home burden might be more typical of the experience of folks not fortunate enough to have the magnet ball bounce their way or be in schools that have not experienced decline. I'm not saying that MCPS is terrible, as the OP suggests, but I think it's irresponsible to insinuate that any concern comes from privilege rather than the possibility of truly negative experience, or that that negative experience must be an aberration.

There is no real decline. That only exists in your imagination. Scores for SES bands have remained constant or improved over recent years.

Way to cram a couple of logical fallacies into a few sentences!

All in folks imagination? Of course! Why didn't I think of that?!

Or it could be that, despite MCPS having a generally good quality of education, there are real problems that should be addressed to avoid or reverse declines versus the relative experience of a couple of decades ago, that maintenance/upticks in SES-band scores over the past couple of years have more to do with pandemic recovery than would an apples-to-apples comparison, that the quality of education available is too variable across schools in the system, that some people's experiences have been different from others', that criticism is not coming only from entitlement/privelege, and that people should not be denigrated for expressing those lived-experience thoughts.

That sounds too much like logic! Stop it!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids have been in MCPS for 15 years and I’m just disgusted by the decline. Wondering if anyone has ideas to fix the many problems in MCPS?

It's only broken in the imagination of especially high-maintenance privileged parents who are the real problem.

+1000 Many of these posters would be unhappy in paradise.

They hate it when anyone who has a different experience speaks up—for example, our family values education. We parent and have high expectations of our children. Our kids are flourishing in MCPS.

In which HS pyramid? The experience may be different for a similar family in a different part of the county, and that is among the problems that should be addressed.

MD operates schools on a county basis, not a town basis, as with some other states. The experience/opportunities throughout the county, while not exactly the same, should be reasonably similar.

One child is at Blair SMCS program the other is at Wheaton Engineering.

Good that there was an acceptance and a match. Dedicated/enriched programs that support your children's interests can offer a different experience. Was that the case in ES (HGC/CES) and/or MS (magnets)? There aren't really enough seats in these at any level to address needs/capabilities.

I presume you are inbounds DCC, then, for the Wheaton match, unless there was a COSA or unless I've got the wrong idea and it's available beyond the consortium in the same way as SMCS. (Please correct me, there, if so.) That's got a very large number of feeder ES's, and I wouldn't want to pin you to one (which is why I asked for the HS pyramid instead of the ES), but, aside from any magnet experience, did you find the school(s) provided challenging instruction, or was it mostly things done outside of school that provided enrichment?

In early ES, I had to shoulder more of the burden, but that was fine. We were at a Title 1 school, so classes were small. Later, kids went through programs like CES or the TPMS magnet. They found opportunities that provided a fine experience. This seems available to anyone with motivation and interest.

There have been fewer spots in those magnets than the need for a long time, and, with the lottery approach, having the motivation is a crapshoot. That approach essentially sees MCPS admitting to the relative paucity of seats -- anyone in the pool qualifies, but there are only spots for a fraction.

Possibly that was instituted after your children went through? Perhaps they got a lucky bounce, or were in-catchment for TPMS/PBES, which gave them a much better chance of getting a magnet slot than elsewhere in the county?

In any case, the need you cited about pre-magnet home burden might be more typical of the experience of folks not fortunate enough to have the magnet ball bounce their way or be in schools that have not experienced decline. I'm not saying that MCPS is terrible, as the OP suggests, but I think it's irresponsible to insinuate that any concern comes from privilege rather than the possibility of truly negative experience, or that that negative experience must be an aberration.

But the MCPS is terrible or in decline message is what you hear most. The complaints are what is heard most and loudest. The people giving MCPS and teachers kudos for any work or progress are themselves.

Scarcity of seats in magnet programs is an issue given the number of students now present in the county. So is/was bias in admittance. The county sought to resolve this by creating the pool/lottery system and rolling out ELC to all elementary schools. Did they get applause for that? No, it was complaints that ELC wasn’t the same as CES program, the teaching isn’t the same caliber, etc., etc.

I mean, damn they are trying. The can’t solve all the school system’s or society’s problem in one sweep. Teachers, Admin, Staff are burning out in part because nothing ever seems to be enough. Just look at this forum. The amount of complaint and vitriol on the MCPS form far outpaces that of any of school system mentioned. The only one that comes close in Fairfax county and even that seems less than McPS.

That PP. Clearly there is too much burnout. I don't disagree that they are trying. I think their priorities could be adjusted. I think the County Council has tied their hands by underfunding their need for about a quarter century.

Families have been burned by that, and are burned out, too, however, and I don't think that the above means that people shouldn't complain where they see problems. Magnet admittance bias was a problem as much as scarcity creep. The solution has to be to better identify the need and then meet it, not lottery folks (except that first pandemic year where it was really the only thing they reasonably could do), however better identified, into a haves vs. have-nots paradigm, with local magnets and set-asides creating even greater inequity, and claim that the have-nots will be just fine with something less.

This kind of anonymous forum is a perfectly fine place to discuss such concerns. Not everyone can go to Carver for a couple of hours to squeeze in 2 minutes of testimony that regularly gets brushed aside and/or ignored.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have the honors and advanced classes in late elementary and middle school. Kids who are advanced need to feel challenged instead of dumbing everything down so people don’t feel left out is a terrible move.

This already exist. Compact math, ELC, CES program, magnet programs, HIGH classes, Honors classes and different math tracks in MS.

Existing doesn’t serve the need when seats are severely limited. Window dressing doesn’t cut it.

The only programs that have limited seating are the CES and magnet programs. Otherwise, honors, compact math, etc. are all accommodated as long as your kid can handle it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have the honors and advanced classes in late elementary and middle school. Kids who are advanced need to feel challenged instead of dumbing everything down so people don’t feel left out is a terrible move.

This already exist. Compact math, ELC, CES program, magnet programs, HIGH classes, Honors classes and different math tracks in MS.

Existing doesn’t serve the need when seats are severely limited. Window dressing doesn’t cut it.

The only programs that have limited seating are the CES and magnet programs. Otherwise, honors, compact math, etc. are all accommodated as long as your kid can handle it.

Those are not properly comparable.

The magnet seats are too few, have been so for a very long time and have not kept up with the increasing population. The local classwork offered, introduced as a more manageable and less expensive alternative, provides not nearly as robust an experience, falling far short of meeting the enrichment need, especially in schools without sizeable cohorts to facilitate grouping, and not being implemented with broad fidelity to the expressed expectation from MCPS central.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids have been in MCPS for 15 years and I’m just disgusted by the decline. Wondering if anyone has ideas to fix the many problems in MCPS?

It's only broken in the imagination of especially high-maintenance privileged parents who are the real problem.

+1000 Many of these posters would be unhappy in paradise.

They hate it when anyone who has a different experience speaks up—for example, our family values education. We parent and have high expectations of our children. Our kids are flourishing in MCPS.

In which HS pyramid? The experience may be different for a similar family in a different part of the county, and that is among the problems that should be addressed.

MD operates schools on a county basis, not a town basis, as with some other states. The experience/opportunities throughout the county, while not exactly the same, should be reasonably similar.

One child is at Blair SMCS program the other is at Wheaton Engineering.

Good that there was an acceptance and a match. Dedicated/enriched programs that support your children's interests can offer a different experience. Was that the case in ES (HGC/CES) and/or MS (magnets)? There aren't really enough seats in these at any level to address needs/capabilities.

I presume you are inbounds DCC, then, for the Wheaton match, unless there was a COSA or unless I've got the wrong idea and it's available beyond the consortium in the same way as SMCS. (Please correct me, there, if so.) That's got a very large number of feeder ES's, and I wouldn't want to pin you to one (which is why I asked for the HS pyramid instead of the ES), but, aside from any magnet experience, did you find the school(s) provided challenging instruction, or was it mostly things done outside of school that provided enrichment?

In early ES, I had to shoulder more of the burden, but that was fine. We were at a Title 1 school, so classes were small. Later, kids went through programs like CES or the TPMS magnet. They found opportunities that provided a fine experience. This seems available to anyone with motivation and interest.

There have been fewer spots in those magnets than the need for a long time, and, with the lottery approach, having the motivation is a crapshoot. That approach essentially sees MCPS admitting to the relative paucity of seats -- anyone in the pool qualifies, but there are only spots for a fraction.

Possibly that was instituted after your children went through? Perhaps they got a lucky bounce, or were in-catchment for TPMS/PBES, which gave them a much better chance of getting a magnet slot than elsewhere in the county?

In any case, the need you cited about pre-magnet home burden might be more typical of the experience of folks not fortunate enough to have the magnet ball bounce their way or be in schools that have not experienced decline. I'm not saying that MCPS is terrible, as the OP suggests, but I think it's irresponsible to insinuate that any concern comes from privilege rather than the possibility of truly negative experience, or that that negative experience must be an aberration.

But the MCPS is terrible or in decline message is what you hear most. The complaints are what is heard most and loudest. The people giving MCPS and teachers kudos for any work or progress are themselves.

Scarcity of seats in magnet programs is an issue given the number of students now present in the county. So is/was bias in admittance. The county sought to resolve this by creating the pool/lottery system and rolling out ELC to all elementary schools. Did they get applause for that? No, it was complaints that ELC wasn’t the same as CES program, the teaching isn’t the same caliber, etc., etc.

I mean, damn they are trying. The can’t solve all the school system’s or society’s problem in one sweep. Teachers, Admin, Staff are burning out in part because nothing ever seems to be enough. Just look at this forum. The amount of complaint and vitriol on the MCPS form far outpaces that of any of school system mentioned. The only one that comes close in Fairfax county and even that seems less than McPS.

You have a serious victim complex on behalf of MCPS and it's unhealthy. Seek treatment.

Exactly these people complaining about decline are the problem. If they spent 10% the effort they make complaining, parenting their children this wouldn't be a problem.

Wrong.

First of all, education is not parenting. Parenting is making sure the kids are ready to learn when they go to school, but it is the school’s job to educate them. That’s the whole point of public education. It’s not a holding cell to park kids until their parents get off work and homeschool them in the evening. It is in society’s best interest that we make sure all kids our well-educated regardless of the degree of patent involvement.

Depending on how well we prepare kids for the future, they can become assets to society or liabilities. They can be our inventors, scientists, doctors, first responders, diplomats, poets, etc., or they can become indigent or even criminal. If we do not invest in them now, we shall assuredly pay more later.

We also need to prepare them as citizens so that they can assume civic responsibilities as their generation comes of age and older generations start to fade.

Secondly, I suspect most of the people complaining, like myself, have been at least as involved in educating their kids as you have. My kids also went to the Blair magnet. They had some fabulous opportunities through MCPS, which I greatly appreciate, but if I had not been making up for the MCPS curriculum deficits, I don’t know if they would have been ready to take advantage of those opportunities. (I’m not talking about prepping, I’m talking about things like using phonics to sound out words, how to hold a pencil, how to do math without a calculator, etc.). It’s BECAUSE we made sure that our kids were educated that we recognize the problems in MCPS.

This is the nirvana but then there is reality. And in reality MCPS and schools across the country are trying to make up for parental involvement and lack of societal support. And we’ve been seeing the cracks in the public education system for years and the pandemic only widen the cracks.

We can’t expect the school system to be all things to all kids and families, underfund it, create a bunch of mandates for it to adhere to and then criticize the manor in which it which it provides.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids have been in MCPS for 15 years and I’m just disgusted by the decline. Wondering if anyone has ideas to fix the many problems in MCPS?

It's only broken in the imagination of especially high-maintenance privileged parents who are the real problem.

+1000 Many of these posters would be unhappy in paradise.

They hate it when anyone who has a different experience speaks up—for example, our family values education. We parent and have high expectations of our children. Our kids are flourishing in MCPS.

In which HS pyramid? The experience may be different for a similar family in a different part of the county, and that is among the problems that should be addressed.

MD operates schools on a county basis, not a town basis, as with some other states. The experience/opportunities throughout the county, while not exactly the same, should be reasonably similar.

One child is at Blair SMCS program the other is at Wheaton Engineering.

Good that there was an acceptance and a match. Dedicated/enriched programs that support your children's interests can offer a different experience. Was that the case in ES (HGC/CES) and/or MS (magnets)? There aren't really enough seats in these at any level to address needs/capabilities.

I presume you are inbounds DCC, then, for the Wheaton match, unless there was a COSA or unless I've got the wrong idea and it's available beyond the consortium in the same way as SMCS. (Please correct me, there, if so.) That's got a very large number of feeder ES's, and I wouldn't want to pin you to one (which is why I asked for the HS pyramid instead of the ES), but, aside from any magnet experience, did you find the school(s) provided challenging instruction, or was it mostly things done outside of school that provided enrichment?

In early ES, I had to shoulder more of the burden, but that was fine. We were at a Title 1 school, so classes were small. Later, kids went through programs like CES or the TPMS magnet. They found opportunities that provided a fine experience. This seems available to anyone with motivation and interest.

There have been fewer spots in those magnets than the need for a long time, and, with the lottery approach, having the motivation is a crapshoot. That approach essentially sees MCPS admitting to the relative paucity of seats -- anyone in the pool qualifies, but there are only spots for a fraction.

Possibly that was instituted after your children went through? Perhaps they got a lucky bounce, or were in-catchment for TPMS/PBES, which gave them a much better chance of getting a magnet slot than elsewhere in the county?

In any case, the need you cited about pre-magnet home burden might be more typical of the experience of folks not fortunate enough to have the magnet ball bounce their way or be in schools that have not experienced decline. I'm not saying that MCPS is terrible, as the OP suggests, but I think it's irresponsible to insinuate that any concern comes from privilege rather than the possibility of truly negative experience, or that that negative experience must be an aberration.

But the MCPS is terrible or in decline message is what you hear most. The complaints are what is heard most and loudest. The people giving MCPS and teachers kudos for any work or progress are themselves.

Scarcity of seats in magnet programs is an issue given the number of students now present in the county. So is/was bias in admittance. The county sought to resolve this by creating the pool/lottery system and rolling out ELC to all elementary schools. Did they get applause for that? No, it was complaints that ELC wasn’t the same as CES program, the teaching isn’t the same caliber, etc., etc.

I mean, damn they are trying. The can’t solve all the school system’s or society’s problem in one sweep. Teachers, Admin, Staff are burning out in part because nothing ever seems to be enough. Just look at this forum. The amount of complaint and vitriol on the MCPS form far outpaces that of any of school system mentioned. The only one that comes close in Fairfax county and even that seems less than McPS.

You have a serious victim complex on behalf of MCPS and it's unhealthy. Seek treatment.

Exactly these people complaining about decline are the problem. If they spent 10% the effort they make complaining, parenting their children this wouldn't be a problem.

Wrong.

First of all, education is not parenting. Parenting is making sure the kids are ready to learn when they go to school, but it is the school’s job to educate them. That’s the whole point of public education. It’s not a holding cell to park kids until their parents get off work and homeschool them in the evening. It is in society’s best interest that we make sure all kids our well-educated regardless of the degree of patent involvement.

Depending on how well we prepare kids for the future, they can become assets to society or liabilities. They can be our inventors, scientists, doctors, first responders, diplomats, poets, etc., or they can become indigent or even criminal. If we do not invest in them now, we shall assuredly pay more later.

We also need to prepare them as citizens so that they can assume civic responsibilities as their generation comes of age and older generations start to fade.

Secondly, I suspect most of the people complaining, like myself, have been at least as involved in educating their kids as you have. My kids also went to the Blair magnet. They had some fabulous opportunities through MCPS, which I greatly appreciate, but if I had not been making up for the MCPS curriculum deficits, I don’t know if they would have been ready to take advantage of those opportunities. (I’m not talking about prepping, I’m talking about things like using phonics to sound out words, how to hold a pencil, how to do math without a calculator, etc.). It’s BECAUSE we made sure that our kids were educated that we recognize the problems in MCPS.

This is the nirvana but then there is reality. And in reality MCPS and schools across the country are trying to make up for parental involvement and lack of societal support. And we’ve been seeing the cracks in the public education system for years and the pandemic only widen the cracks.

We can’t expect the school system to be all things to all kids and families, underfund it, create a bunch of mandates for it to adhere to and then criticize the manor in which it which it provides.

DP/one of the above.

For the PP's aims (roughly) with a nod to your proper observation, we could suggest reprioritizations aimed at:

- ensuring a strong basic educational result (including grade-appropriate civics & life skills) for and from every reasonably capable student prior to grade advancement,

- providing reasonably equivalent opportunity/experiences across the system, regardless of local peer cohort,

- allowing families to take advantage of that in a differential manner (acknowledging this is both inevitable and not inappropriate in and of itself) while continuing outreach/supports to encourage broader participation,

- eliminating more deterministic resulting in-system options (e.g., magnet admission) associated with that differential uptake, and

- celebrating truly great student, teacher and system achievements,

and then wrestle strongly with the County Council to provide consistent, adequate funding.

[Anonymous]

Stop being scared to fail and hold back kids.

[Anonymous]

Break the county up into a northern, eastern and western clusters with independence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids have been in MCPS for 15 years and I’m just disgusted by the decline. Wondering if anyone has ideas to fix the many problems in MCPS?

It's only broken in the imagination of especially high-maintenance privileged parents who are the real problem.

+1000 Many of these posters would be unhappy in paradise.

They hate it when anyone who has a different experience speaks up—for example, our family values education. We parent and have high expectations of our children. Our kids are flourishing in MCPS.

In which HS pyramid? The experience may be different for a similar family in a different part of the county, and that is among the problems that should be addressed.

MD operates schools on a county basis, not a town basis, as with some other states. The experience/opportunities throughout the county, while not exactly the same, should be reasonably similar.

One child is at Blair SMCS program the other is at Wheaton Engineering.

Good that there was an acceptance and a match. Dedicated/enriched programs that support your children's interests can offer a different experience. Was that the case in ES (HGC/CES) and/or MS (magnets)? There aren't really enough seats in these at any level to address needs/capabilities.

I presume you are inbounds DCC, then, for the Wheaton match, unless there was a COSA or unless I've got the wrong idea and it's available beyond the consortium in the same way as SMCS. (Please correct me, there, if so.) That's got a very large number of feeder ES's, and I wouldn't want to pin you to one (which is why I asked for the HS pyramid instead of the ES), but, aside from any magnet experience, did you find the school(s) provided challenging instruction, or was it mostly things done outside of school that provided enrichment?

In early ES, I had to shoulder more of the burden, but that was fine. We were at a Title 1 school, so classes were small. Later, kids went through programs like CES or the TPMS magnet. They found opportunities that provided a fine experience. This seems available to anyone with motivation and interest.

There have been fewer spots in those magnets than the need for a long time, and, with the lottery approach, having the motivation is a crapshoot. That approach essentially sees MCPS admitting to the relative paucity of seats -- anyone in the pool qualifies, but there are only spots for a fraction.

Possibly that was instituted after your children went through? Perhaps they got a lucky bounce, or were in-catchment for TPMS/PBES, which gave them a much better chance of getting a magnet slot than elsewhere in the county?

In any case, the need you cited about pre-magnet home burden might be more typical of the experience of folks not fortunate enough to have the magnet ball bounce their way or be in schools that have not experienced decline. I'm not saying that MCPS is terrible, as the OP suggests, but I think it's irresponsible to insinuate that any concern comes from privilege rather than the possibility of truly negative experience, or that that negative experience must be an aberration.

But the MCPS is terrible or in decline message is what you hear most. The complaints are what is heard most and loudest. The people giving MCPS and teachers kudos for any work or progress are themselves.

Scarcity of seats in magnet programs is an issue given the number of students now present in the county. So is/was bias in admittance. The county sought to resolve this by creating the pool/lottery system and rolling out ELC to all elementary schools. Did they get applause for that? No, it was complaints that ELC wasn’t the same as CES program, the teaching isn’t the same caliber, etc., etc.

I mean, damn they are trying. The can’t solve all the school system’s or society’s problem in one sweep. Teachers, Admin, Staff are burning out in part because nothing ever seems to be enough. Just look at this forum. The amount of complaint and vitriol on the MCPS form far outpaces that of any of school system mentioned. The only one that comes close in Fairfax county and even that seems less than McPS.

That PP. Clearly there is too much burnout. I don't disagree that they are trying. I think their priorities could be adjusted. I think the County Council has tied their hands by underfunding their need for about a quarter century.

Families have been burned by that, and are burned out, too, however, and I don't think that the above means that people shouldn't complain where they see problems. Magnet admittance bias was a problem as much as scarcity creep. The solution has to be to better identify the need and then meet it, not lottery folks (except that first pandemic year where it was really the only thing they reasonably could do), however better identified, into a haves vs. have-nots paradigm, with local magnets and set-asides creating even greater inequity, and claim that the have-nots will be just fine with something less.

This kind of anonymous forum is a perfectly fine place to discuss such concerns. Not everyone can go to Carver for a couple of hours to squeeze in 2 minutes of testimony that regularly gets brushed aside and/or ignored.

Underfunding? It doesn’t help that for several years, we had the equivalent of a small high school showing up each year with no English and no history of school. I guess you could blame that on MoCo taxpayers for not turning up the $ spigot faster…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids have been in MCPS for 15 years and I’m just disgusted by the decline. Wondering if anyone has ideas to fix the many problems in MCPS?

It's only broken in the imagination of especially high-maintenance privileged parents who are the real problem.

+1000 Many of these posters would be unhappy in paradise.

They hate it when anyone who has a different experience speaks up—for example, our family values education. We parent and have high expectations of our children. Our kids are flourishing in MCPS.

In which HS pyramid? The experience may be different for a similar family in a different part of the county, and that is among the problems that should be addressed.

MD operates schools on a county basis, not a town basis, as with some other states. The experience/opportunities throughout the county, while not exactly the same, should be reasonably similar.

One child is at Blair SMCS program the other is at Wheaton Engineering.

Good that there was an acceptance and a match. Dedicated/enriched programs that support your children's interests can offer a different experience. Was that the case in ES (HGC/CES) and/or MS (magnets)? There aren't really enough seats in these at any level to address needs/capabilities.

I presume you are inbounds DCC, then, for the Wheaton match, unless there was a COSA or unless I've got the wrong idea and it's available beyond the consortium in the same way as SMCS. (Please correct me, there, if so.) That's got a very large number of feeder ES's, and I wouldn't want to pin you to one (which is why I asked for the HS pyramid instead of the ES), but, aside from any magnet experience, did you find the school(s) provided challenging instruction, or was it mostly things done outside of school that provided enrichment?

In early ES, I had to shoulder more of the burden, but that was fine. We were at a Title 1 school, so classes were small. Later, kids went through programs like CES or the TPMS magnet. They found opportunities that provided a fine experience. This seems available to anyone with motivation and interest.

There have been fewer spots in those magnets than the need for a long time, and, with the lottery approach, having the motivation is a crapshoot. That approach essentially sees MCPS admitting to the relative paucity of seats -- anyone in the pool qualifies, but there are only spots for a fraction.

Possibly that was instituted after your children went through? Perhaps they got a lucky bounce, or were in-catchment for TPMS/PBES, which gave them a much better chance of getting a magnet slot than elsewhere in the county?

In any case, the need you cited about pre-magnet home burden might be more typical of the experience of folks not fortunate enough to have the magnet ball bounce their way or be in schools that have not experienced decline. I'm not saying that MCPS is terrible, as the OP suggests, but I think it's irresponsible to insinuate that any concern comes from privilege rather than the possibility of truly negative experience, or that that negative experience must be an aberration.

But the MCPS is terrible or in decline message is what you hear most. The complaints are what is heard most and loudest. The people giving MCPS and teachers kudos for any work or progress are themselves.

Scarcity of seats in magnet programs is an issue given the number of students now present in the county. So is/was bias in admittance. The county sought to resolve this by creating the pool/lottery system and rolling out ELC to all elementary schools. Did they get applause for that? No, it was complaints that ELC wasn’t the same as CES program, the teaching isn’t the same caliber, etc., etc.

I mean, damn they are trying. The can’t solve all the school system’s or society’s problem in one sweep. Teachers, Admin, Staff are burning out in part because nothing ever seems to be enough. Just look at this forum. The amount of complaint and vitriol on the MCPS form far outpaces that of any of school system mentioned. The only one that comes close in Fairfax county and even that seems less than McPS.

That PP. Clearly there is too much burnout. I don't disagree that they are trying. I think their priorities could be adjusted. I think the County Council has tied their hands by underfunding their need for about a quarter century.

Families have been burned by that, and are burned out, too, however, and I don't think that the above means that people shouldn't complain where they see problems. Magnet admittance bias was a problem as much as scarcity creep. The solution has to be to better identify the need and then meet it, not lottery folks (except that first pandemic year where it was really the only thing they reasonably could do), however better identified, into a haves vs. have-nots paradigm, with local magnets and set-asides creating even greater inequity, and claim that the have-nots will be just fine with something less.

This kind of anonymous forum is a perfectly fine place to discuss such concerns. Not everyone can go to Carver for a couple of hours to squeeze in 2 minutes of testimony that regularly gets brushed aside and/or ignored.

Underfunding? It doesn’t help that for several years, we had the equivalent of a small high school showing up each year with no English and no history of school. I guess you could blame that on MoCo taxpayers for not turning up the $ spigot faster…

+1.

[Anonymous]

DP.
1. Focus on the basics when it comes to academics.
2. Fund school supplies, not pet projects.
3. Stop pretending the school has power over parental behavior. That's a role for either the police or social services. If a student is disruptive or violent at school, suspension.
4. If there's a problem at a school, have the Central Office staff report to that school daily, all day, until the problem is fixed.
5. Steer middle-of-the-road. Vanilla is the best flavor.
6. Don't push personal social agendas via boundary changes. Focus on proximity and reducing costs for busing. If someone doesn't like their school, let them move.
7. Read every line of a CFP or DoE complaint and the CO's response. Tell the CO staff that if they lie, they're fired.

[Anonymous]

The only reason why the Magnet program is strapped for seats is because they're in the far corners of the county and artificially limited by choice. Crown is opening and could be a real magnet school, like TJ in VA (#5 in the Nation).

Also it's a self-serving misrepresentation that the Magnet Program had to go lottery because of covid. They went lottery the year before covid, imho, to avoid lawsuits. I believe it's also the reason why MCPS in the same year didn't use Nationally-administered aptitude testing for GT identification.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The only reason why the Magnet program is strapped for seats is because they're in the far corners of the county and artificially limited by choice. Crown is opening and could be a real magnet school, like TJ in VA (#5 in the Nation).

Also it's a self-serving misrepresentation that the Magnet Program had to go lottery because of covid. They went lottery the year before covid, imho, to avoid lawsuits. I believe it's also the reason why MCPS in the same year didn't use Nationally-administered aptitude testing for GT identification.

What timeline are you working with to say the lottery happened before the pandemic? Wasn't the selection process already done (or all the data collected, anyway) by March of 2020 when things shut down? Wasn't that where they had decided to try to take only outliers for CES and cohort large groups at their home schools?

They said they couldn't do CogAT remotely in 2020-21, and that that and uncertainty about how representative MAP scores/grades might be due to the disruption was why they had to go with a big-net-plus-lottery approach. Of course, they may have been thinking about a lottery before that, but I don't think they had yet conducted one for the criteria-based magnets, only the interest-based ones (language immersion, consortia).

That's my recollection, anyway. Or had they done a lottery for the criteria-based MS programs but not yet the CESs?

I agree that most magnets are artificially limited. Certainly versus both numbers capable and interest. There may be some personnel constraints, but it doesn't look like MCPS has even tried to keep up.

[Anonymous]

Replying to the "Underfunding?" post a few back, as the system won't seem to let a direct reply through.

I'm not sure where you properly question the fact that MCPS has been underfunded. You may well be correct that immigration has introduced variable needs that incur additional cost without proportional additional tax revenue. (Note: it likely isn't the sole contributor to increased costs, even if a large one.) Failing to fund MCPS adequately still occurred and continues to this day.