NY Times on new application essays dabbling in so-called "identities"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t get people who are responding to this about how it could be asking about things like being an only child or being white. This question is directly related to finding another way to use race in college admissions, notwithstanding the supreme court’s ruling. This is why a non URM struggles with the question. Clearly, anyone can answer this about their identity: only child, disabled, youngest/oldest child, army brat, loss of a parent, ill sibling, etc.,but that’s not the intended use of this essay.

No. These kinds of questions have been on college applications forever. The only difference is the use of the word, “identity,” versus “tell us about yourself or who you are as a person.” They are asking the same thing. If you can’t think of anything to say about yourself and what shaped you, then you probably should not apply. A person of color certainly wants to be defined beyond their race, as does a white person.

For example:

Notre Dame for 2022-2023: People in the Notre Dame community come from many different places, backgrounds, and walks of life. How is where you’re from a part of who you are?

University of Michigan for 2020-2021: Everyone belongs to many different communities and/or groups defined by (among other things) shared geography, religion, ethnicity, income, cuisine, interest, race, ideology, or intellectual heritage. Choose one of the communities to which you belong, and describe that community and your place within it.

University of Georgia for 2019-2020: Tell a story from your life, describing an experience that either demonstrates your character or helped to
shape it.

Florida State University for 2015-2016: We firmly believe that every person is unique and of value. Our university is enriched by embracing individual differences and creating a community that is much more than the sum of its parts. In 650 words or less, share your story with us. Tell us how you came to be the person you are today, and about your passions and future expectations. Describe how you will benefit from our community and how our community will benefit from you.

Q: Tell us how you came to be the person you are today.

A: my Black skin color.

Yes, it is the same.

What if your cynicism isn’t merited? What if you’re expending all this energy and time and certainty on something that just isn’t so? What a shame that would be.

NP please, stop pretending that these questions might not actually want you to talk about your skin color, because they very obviously do. After decades of zealously focusing on diversity admissions, you’d have to be a complete idiot to think they suddenly gave that up in 2023.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the question is absolutely brilliant! They pose a "third rail" kind of question to all applicants and get to see how deftly it is handled (or not handled)

What a great way to figure out who can handle difficult subjects without falling to pieces. Or those who can address it with their own original thinking and not mimic the lifetime of BS they've been fed by CNN, FOX, and others that serve up baby food mush to adults

Seriously brilliant!

Or who can afford to hire someone to figure out what to write for them

Exactly.

The most opaque the process, the more open to money, influences and abuse.

[Anonymous]

So nothing changes. The kids who can handle the question with grace will get noticed. And the rich kids will also.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t get people who are responding to this about how it could be asking about things like being an only child or being white. This question is directly related to finding another way to use race in college admissions, notwithstanding the supreme court’s ruling. This is why a non URM struggles with the question. Clearly, anyone can answer this about their identity: only child, disabled, youngest/oldest child, army brat, loss of a parent, ill sibling, etc.,but that’s not the intended use of this essay.

No. These kinds of questions have been on college applications forever. The only difference is the use of the word, “identity,” versus “tell us about yourself or who you are as a person.” They are asking the same thing. If you can’t think of anything to say about yourself and what shaped you, then you probably should not apply. A person of color certainly wants to be defined beyond their race, as does a white person.

For example:

Notre Dame for 2022-2023: People in the Notre Dame community come from many different places, backgrounds, and walks of life. How is where you’re from a part of who you are?

University of Michigan for 2020-2021: Everyone belongs to many different communities and/or groups defined by (among other things) shared geography, religion, ethnicity, income, cuisine, interest, race, ideology, or intellectual heritage. Choose one of the communities to which you belong, and describe that community and your place within it.

University of Georgia for 2019-2020: Tell a story from your life, describing an experience that either demonstrates your character or helped to
shape it.

Florida State University for 2015-2016: We firmly believe that every person is unique and of value. Our university is enriched by embracing individual differences and creating a community that is much more than the sum of its parts. In 650 words or less, share your story with us. Tell us how you came to be the person you are today, and about your passions and future expectations. Describe how you will benefit from our community and how our community will benefit from you.

Q: Tell us how you came to be the person you are today.

A: my Black skin color.

Yes, it is the same.

What if your cynicism isn’t merited? What if you’re expending all this energy and time and certainty on something that just isn’t so? What a shame that would be.

NP please, stop pretending that these questions might not actually want you to talk about your skin color, because they very obviously do. After decades of zealously focusing on diversity admissions, you’d have to be a complete idiot to think they suddenly gave that up in 2023.

I answered questions like these in 1988.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So nothing changes. The kids who can handle the question with grace will get noticed. And the rich kids will also.

Ah yes, handle the open racism with grace.

Reminds me of Gone with the Wind.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t get people who are responding to this about how it could be asking about things like being an only child or being white. This question is directly related to finding another way to use race in college admissions, notwithstanding the supreme court’s ruling. This is why a non URM struggles with the question. Clearly, anyone can answer this about their identity: only child, disabled, youngest/oldest child, army brat, loss of a parent, ill sibling, etc.,but that’s not the intended use of this essay.

No. These kinds of questions have been on college applications forever. The only difference is the use of the word, “identity,” versus “tell us about yourself or who you are as a person.” They are asking the same thing. If you can’t think of anything to say about yourself and what shaped you, then you probably should not apply. A person of color certainly wants to be defined beyond their race, as does a white person.

For example:

Notre Dame for 2022-2023: People in the Notre Dame community come from many different places, backgrounds, and walks of life. How is where you’re from a part of who you are?

University of Michigan for 2020-2021: Everyone belongs to many different communities and/or groups defined by (among other things) shared geography, religion, ethnicity, income, cuisine, interest, race, ideology, or intellectual heritage. Choose one of the communities to which you belong, and describe that community and your place within it.

University of Georgia for 2019-2020: Tell a story from your life, describing an experience that either demonstrates your character or helped to
shape it.

Florida State University for 2015-2016: We firmly believe that every person is unique and of value. Our university is enriched by embracing individual differences and creating a community that is much more than the sum of its parts. In 650 words or less, share your story with us. Tell us how you came to be the person you are today, and about your passions and future expectations. Describe how you will benefit from our community and how our community will benefit from you.

Q: Tell us how you came to be the person you are today.

A: my Black skin color.

Yes, it is the same.

What if your cynicism isn’t merited? What if you’re expending all this energy and time and certainty on something that just isn’t so? What a shame that would be.

NP please, stop pretending that these questions might not actually want you to talk about your skin color, because they very obviously do. After decades of zealously focusing on diversity admissions, you’d have to be a complete idiot to think they suddenly gave that up in 2023.

I answered questions like these in 1988.

... when they were looking for individual traits, not for skin color.

[Anonymous]

Afro-Latino kid. 1490 SAT. 4.4 GPA. Essay about flippong cars that he refurbishes.

And you think he was accepted to college because he has curly hair?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have no idea what it means not to partake in "identification". Are you saying that your kid refuses to answer questions about their gender, or religion, or nationality, or family status or hobbies?

You're lumping a few things together here, but yes, you're right. My kid refuses to answer questions about all of these things unless they are necessary for a legitimate purpose. For instance, a medical doctor might need to know about their biological sex to correctly diagnose symptoms. Otherwise, it's nobody's business, and especially not some random AO's.

No one wants to go to school with a kid who refuses to talk about their hobbies, or where they come from, or their family, or their experiences, etc . . . They sound very boring.

I'm not sure when you went to college but my kid lives with 6 others at a T20 school, two of them play video games all day, one does ballroom dancing as a hobby, my son plays pick up basketball, another teaches. Each of them has their set of friends that relate to their hobbies and pursue them on their own with zero impact or influence on the others. Not sure how this "diversity" helps.

You pay all this money to get an education, get a job and do well in life and none of this forced diversity matters. I myself came from another country, jumped right into management and am doing very well without having met a single black or hispanic person before I came to this country. Have managed many of them over the past 2+ decades without issues. I don't think spending 4 years in college with a bunch of black, hispanic, or asian people would make one a better colleague or manager of those people.

Let's cut this crap!

[Anonymous]

So.. a straight Asian kid can write about his imaginary 'struggles' with his gender identity and get into college and act and behave perfectly straight without consequences? That's awesome. Before the SC decision, this kid won't be able to lie about being Black without consequences.. This is surely an improvement. I hope all 'college admission disadvantaged' kids (as in Asian or White) do this to screw up this new approach to nonsense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So.. a straight Asian kid can write about his imaginary 'struggles' with his gender identity and get into college and act and behave perfectly straight without consequences? That's awesome. Before the SC decision, this kid won't be able to lie about being Black without consequences.. This is surely an improvement. I hope all 'college admission disadvantaged' kids (as in Asian or White) do this to screw up this new approach to nonsense.

Where have you ever seen that gender identify offers an admissions advantage?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So.. a straight Asian kid can write about his imaginary 'struggles' with his gender identity and get into college and act and behave perfectly straight without consequences? That's awesome. Before the SC decision, this kid won't be able to lie about being Black without consequences.. This is surely an improvement. I hope all 'college admission disadvantaged' kids (as in Asian or White) do this to screw up this new approach to nonsense.

Where have you ever seen that gender identify offers an admissions advantage?

now a days identifying as transgender does give you a leg up. Part of the DEI initiative.

-dp

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So.. a straight Asian kid can write about his imaginary 'struggles' with his gender identity and get into college and act and behave perfectly straight without consequences? That's awesome. Before the SC decision, this kid won't be able to lie about being Black without consequences.. This is surely an improvement. I hope all 'college admission disadvantaged' kids (as in Asian or White) do this to screw up this new approach to nonsense.

Where have you ever seen that gender identify offers an admissions advantage?

now a days identifying as transgender does give you a leg up. Part of the DEI initiative.

-dp

Evidence?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So.. a straight Asian kid can write about his imaginary 'struggles' with his gender identity and get into college and act and behave perfectly straight without consequences? That's awesome. Before the SC decision, this kid won't be able to lie about being Black without consequences.. This is surely an improvement. I hope all 'college admission disadvantaged' kids (as in Asian or White) do this to screw up this new approach to nonsense.

Where have you ever seen that gender identify offers an admissions advantage?

now a days identifying as transgender does give you a leg up. Part of the DEI initiative.

-dp

Evidence?

this thread topic, and we keep hearing from the pro-diversity crowd how diversity is super important in colleges.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Afro-Latino kid. 1490 SAT. 4.4 GPA. Essay about flippong cars that he refurbishes.

And you think he was accepted to college because he has curly hair?

That guy will be happy when he and everyone else knows he is in because of his merits and not because of his curly hair.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“Our tribalistic group identities are something to overcome, not encourage.“

Yes! It’s so weird that the people who claim they don’t want race to be an issue are always making race an issue.

This country was founded on the principle of group identities (race) so it will never just 'not be an issue'.

That’s a quasi-religious argument. We aren’t living a biblical narrative; America is not bound by original sin. As race and racism are social constructs, they can be undone.