NY Times on new application essays dabbling in so-called "identities"

[Anonymous]

I was referring to the URMs, not the ORMs.

[Anonymous]

If one can be trans-gendered, I don't see why one cannot make a claim to be trans-race.

Don't see a reason why a white kid can't write an essay describing how they're stuck in a white man's body while having the mental identity of being a black or Hispanic person.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If one can be trans-gendered, I don't see why one cannot make a claim to be trans-race.

Don't see a reason why a white kid can't write an essay describing how they're stuck in a white man's body while having the mental identity of being a black or Hispanic person.

One could write that essay.

Just like an essay in which a kid just described being transgender probably wouldn't get the kid accepted, that essay probably wouldn't get them accepted either. But they could write it. No one will stop them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If one can be trans-gendered, I don't see why one cannot make a claim to be trans-race.

Don't see a reason why a white kid can't write an essay describing how they're stuck in a white man's body while having the mental identity of being a black or Hispanic person.

You are welcome to write whatever you like.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If one can be trans-gendered, I don't see why one cannot make a claim to be trans-race.

Don't see a reason why a white kid can't write an essay describing how they're stuck in a white man's body while having the mental identity of being a black or Hispanic person.

You are welcome to write whatever you like.

Welcome to post-truth America.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If one can be trans-gendered, I don't see why one cannot make a claim to be trans-race.

Don't see a reason why a white kid can't write an essay describing how they're stuck in a white man's body while having the mental identity of being a black or Hispanic person.

You are welcome to write whatever you like.

Welcome to post-truth America.

You were always welcome to write your essay on whatever you like. And colleges are welcome to assess it in the ways they like.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If one can be trans-gendered, I don't see why one cannot make a claim to be trans-race.

Don't see a reason why a white kid can't write an essay describing how they're stuck in a white man's body while having the mental identity of being a black or Hispanic person.

You are welcome to write whatever you like.

Welcome to post-truth America.

You were always welcome to write your essay on whatever you like. And colleges are welcome to assess it in the ways they like.

... including discriminating by race, sex, ethnicity, national origin, and any way they want, because they are above the law of course.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“It's the 21st century, folks. The world our kids will enter is stunningly multicultural”

Exactly, but that should make identity LESS important, not MORE. The alumni magazine should read “Suzy X (class of ‘15) climbs Mount Everest,” not “First trans Albanian Suzy X overcomes unique challenges to go where nobody like her has gone before.”

If the identity is relevant, fine. Like if it’s “First Muslim appointed to be Pope’s bodyguard,” that’s great, because the identity is key to the story. But don’t make identity the story when it has nothing to do with the achievement.

We should be working towards a society where those sorts of characteristics aren’t THE STORY, but we are swimming upstream as long as so many people have to interject identity where it isn’t relevant.

Genuinely curious — truly — how you (and others!) might design a system, in a world with massive disparities many of which stem from historic injustices, that can (a) measure the academic potential of individuals from a pool of candidates who had different starting points and inputs, and (b) assess these individuals’ level of introspection about who they are and how their perspectives were informed, such that you can have confidence in their ability to work effectively, constructively, and equitably, across cultural, socioeconomic, etc., divides.

Maybe it’s not the “identity” essay, I don’t know. But then what is it? What is the better system?

I am interested in hearing a different/better approach, but if it doesn’t acknowledge the society we’re in, and it doesn’t acknowledge goals (a) and (b), how is it not just more of what has been?

Among all those bemoaning the unfairness and racism of the essay, I haven’t seen anyone suggest a better way to assess the academic potential of candidates from disparate means and backgrounds, or to discern candidates’ introspection/ability to thrive in and contribute to a multicultural community.

Do I *love* the identity question? Not really (though for different reasons than several of you). But I do appreciate what colleges are trying to do, and the situation they’re in, and I haven’t yet heard a better solution that actually acknowledges the very challenges we face in America.

At any rate, this is all starting to feel pretty bad faith. May you all find a bit of ease and grace in this messy world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have no idea what it means not to partake in "identification". Are you saying that your kid refuses to answer questions about their gender, or religion, or nationality, or family status or hobbies?

Everyone I know identifies as something.

If you're a white male, cis/het, not religious, UMC, family been here a long time and intermixed (generic European), truly what is there to say?

I'm not in this category but I feel like these Qs should be optional. Otherwise it is very cringe and fake.

"Tell us about an aspect of your identity OR a life experience that has shaped you."

By 17, kids have been shaped by something. If not, write an eloquent essay about being an unmolded lump still seeking form.

No need to bolden that. "Shaping life experiences" are also none of a university's business and this part of the question has no legitimate purpose, either.

Anonymous wrote:
My kid has many aspects to his identity. He is Jewish. He has a disability. He has a brother with a disability. He is white. He is American. He is a cis male. He plays a sport. He grew up in the south. He enjoys science. He is an extrovert who prides himself on prioritizing friendships. He volunteers. Some of those things he shared in essays, and some he chose not to either because he felt they were too personal (e.g., his disability) or irrelevant (e.g., they saw his citizenship and sex/gender when he applied and he didn't have anything to add on that topic). That left him with tons and tons of things to talk about, many of which he "chose" for himself (sports, academic interests, volunteer work, friendships).

Are you familiar with the teen slang TMI?
None of this belongs in a college application, and shouldn't even be asked.

A college application should not ask about sports, academic interests, and volunteer work? Or, again, is the problem with race, religion, and gender?

Your brain seems so mushed that you can't see the difference. Yes, colleges can asked about academic interests - though better only academic achievements.

Race, religion, gender, sports, volunteer work are nonacademic issues that have no relevance. You know who does it that way?
Every industrialized country aside from the U.S. You send in your transcript, perhaps take an entrance exam, and that's what decides.

Not your oversharing your "identity" to play some kind of stupid game, as other posters have pointed out.

Might I recommend a little more precision in your reading and writing then, because you first declared that none of the examples (including academic interest) belonged in the application. Thus my confusion about the point you were trying to make.

Also, as others have pointed out, those countries you are talking about have fully and publicly funded universities. That is why they rely on exams.

But it's nice to see that you support publicly funded universities. I wasn't expecting you to be so forward thinking. What other social programs do you feel our government should support through taxes?

Please go back to the recent SCOTUS ruling. This has nothing to do with public vs private universities. Where does this connection come from?

Neither private nor public universities should force students to engage in soul searching about identities or parrot common talking points of certain political leanings.
Neither here nor elsewhere.

Although, even though some may say that private universities can do as they please, SCOTUS makes clear that's not the case. They are correct. We're talking about public goods here, not subgroups separated from society that can do as they please. That's also the counterargument to those who say: Oh, you could tell us about X Y or Z, or "then don't apply."

As a society, we need to decide what our values are and how we select those to whom we grant access to limited resources. Should we value those we can parrot identity ideology or those who have proven that they can strive and be successful at endeavors they want to go to the university for?

Oh pffft. You're one of those people who like to blab on about judging only by "the content of one's character" as if we're already in a post-racial society where no one ever sees someone skin color and judges them on that anymore.

Guess what, all those things you dismiss are about the content of one's character.

Highly selective colleges receive thousands more qualified applicants than they have space to admit. They have to narrow down the choice somehow. And if someone writes an essay that makes them seem interesting in a way that sets them apart from other applicants or complements the other students who are being allowed in then that's who they're going to choose.

Also unless you start talking about banning athletic prowess as one of the things applicants are judged on, you really are a hypocrite. Let it all be just test scores and then let's see who gets the best football team!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If one can be trans-gendered, I don't see why one cannot make a claim to be trans-race.

Don't see a reason why a white kid can't write an essay describing how they're stuck in a white man's body while having the mental identity of being a black or Hispanic person.

You are welcome to write whatever you like.

Welcome to post-truth America.

You were always welcome to write your essay on whatever you like. And colleges are welcome to assess it in the ways they like.

... including discriminating by race, sex, ethnicity, national origin, and any way they want, because they are above the law of course.

And athletic ability! Don't forget that!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t get people who are responding to this about how it could be asking about things like being an only child or being white. This question is directly related to finding another way to use race in college admissions, notwithstanding the supreme court’s ruling. This is why a non URM struggles with the question. Clearly, anyone can answer this about their identity: only child, disabled, youngest/oldest child, army brat, loss of a parent, ill sibling, etc.,but that’s not the intended use of this essay.

No. These kinds of questions have been on college applications forever. The only difference is the use of the word, “identity,” versus “tell us about yourself or who you are as a person.” They are asking the same thing. If you can’t think of anything to say about yourself and what shaped you, then you probably should not apply. A person of color certainly wants to be defined beyond their race, as does a white person.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t get people who are responding to this about how it could be asking about things like being an only child or being white. This question is directly related to finding another way to use race in college admissions, notwithstanding the supreme court’s ruling. This is why a non URM struggles with the question. Clearly, anyone can answer this about their identity: only child, disabled, youngest/oldest child, army brat, loss of a parent, ill sibling, etc.,but that’s not the intended use of this essay.

No. These kinds of questions have been on college applications forever. The only difference is the use of the word, “identity,” versus “tell us about yourself or who you are as a person.” They are asking the same thing. If you can’t think of anything to say about yourself and what shaped you, then you probably should not apply. A person of color certainly wants to be defined beyond their race, as does a white person.

For example:

Notre Dame for 2022-2023: People in the Notre Dame community come from many different places, backgrounds, and walks of life. How is where you’re from a part of who you are?

University of Michigan for 2020-2021: Everyone belongs to many different communities and/or groups defined by (among other things) shared geography, religion, ethnicity, income, cuisine, interest, race, ideology, or intellectual heritage. Choose one of the communities to which you belong, and describe that community and your place within it.

University of Georgia for 2019-2020: Tell a story from your life, describing an experience that either demonstrates your character or helped to
shape it.

Florida State University for 2015-2016: We firmly believe that every person is unique and of value. Our university is enriched by embracing individual differences and creating a community that is much more than the sum of its parts. In 650 words or less, share your story with us. Tell us how you came to be the person you are today, and about your passions and future expectations. Describe how you will benefit from our community and how our community will benefit from you.

[Anonymous]

I think the question is absolutely brilliant! They pose a "third rail" kind of question to all applicants and get to see how deftly it is handled (or not handled)

What a great way to figure out who can handle difficult subjects without falling to pieces. Or those who can address it with their own original thinking and not mimic the lifetime of BS they've been fed by CNN, FOX, and others that serve up baby food mush to adults

Seriously brilliant!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think the question is absolutely brilliant! They pose a "third rail" kind of question to all applicants and get to see how deftly it is handled (or not handled)

What a great way to figure out who can handle difficult subjects without falling to pieces. Or those who can address it with their own original thinking and not mimic the lifetime of BS they've been fed by CNN, FOX, and others that serve up baby food mush to adults

Seriously brilliant!

Or who can afford to hire someone to figure out what to write for them

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t get people who are responding to this about how it could be asking about things like being an only child or being white. This question is directly related to finding another way to use race in college admissions, notwithstanding the supreme court’s ruling. This is why a non URM struggles with the question. Clearly, anyone can answer this about their identity: only child, disabled, youngest/oldest child, army brat, loss of a parent, ill sibling, etc.,but that’s not the intended use of this essay.

No. These kinds of questions have been on college applications forever. The only difference is the use of the word, “identity,” versus “tell us about yourself or who you are as a person.” They are asking the same thing. If you can’t think of anything to say about yourself and what shaped you, then you probably should not apply. A person of color certainly wants to be defined beyond their race, as does a white person.

For example:

Notre Dame for 2022-2023: People in the Notre Dame community come from many different places, backgrounds, and walks of life. How is where you’re from a part of who you are?

University of Michigan for 2020-2021: Everyone belongs to many different communities and/or groups defined by (among other things) shared geography, religion, ethnicity, income, cuisine, interest, race, ideology, or intellectual heritage. Choose one of the communities to which you belong, and describe that community and your place within it.

University of Georgia for 2019-2020: Tell a story from your life, describing an experience that either demonstrates your character or helped to
shape it.

Florida State University for 2015-2016: We firmly believe that every person is unique and of value. Our university is enriched by embracing individual differences and creating a community that is much more than the sum of its parts. In 650 words or less, share your story with us. Tell us how you came to be the person you are today, and about your passions and future expectations. Describe how you will benefit from our community and how our community will benefit from you.

Q: Tell us how you came to be the person you are today.

A: my Black skin color.

Yes, it is the same.

What if your cynicism isn’t merited? What if you’re expending all this energy and time and certainty on something that just isn’t so? What a shame that would be.