As schools near $100K/year when will that affect the pool of students?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At a lot of these expensive city schools like UCLA OOS, USC, NYU etc what you’re really paying for is getting a foothold in that city if you want to settle in it post graduation.

I mean… you’re also just paying to live in a VCOL city. The school only controls tuition, not all the things that go into COA.

Tuition is based on cost of labor, building maintenance, salaries, shuttle bus costs etc

And most colleges lost Millions when they had to shut down for covid. Many refunded R&B in spring 2020, yet they still have to maintain the dorms even if nobody is in them--still have to have the heat on even if students are not in the dorms. Most dorms are older and cost a lot to maintain. Plus many did not layoff/fire their workers, so they were still paying salaries to be helpful

None of that explains why college's tuition and costs have risen 7 fold over the cost of interest over the last 30 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I honestly don't think so it will ever affect the quality of pool of students. Like many have said the demographics at these expensive schools will change but quality would not.

So more international, celebrity & rich kids. specially the ones that want to return back to their home country to join dad's business or son/daughters of Indian actors for example. They will subsidize the fees for very smart kids who qualify for need based aid.

Then there will be families who have sacrificed many many years on vacations, and quality of life to pay for kids education (read lots of MC/UMC families especially Asian immigrants who value education highly)

And then finally, families who go under massive debt to pay for the kids education.

I think what would change, are the employers and grad school admissions POV- kids in mid ranked school will not be penalized. There is growing awareness and acceptance that top kids don't always end up at top ranked schools because of many factors 1) cost and 2) Diversity 3) Competitive majors 4) Just the overall lottery. That doesn't mean these kids are less capable than Ivy league kids

You are living in dream land.

All of these “problems” existed when I was applying to schools in 2002 and employers didn’t care then. They won’t care about your kids either. You’re just surprised because you’re downwardly mobile.

+1 As long as hiring managers care, then the school name matters.

There have always been “donut hole” families. DCUMers are just surprised because their parents weren’t.

The fact is most hiring managers do NOT care. It's only a few areas that really matter (NYC finance and PE). And after the first job, nobody cares. GMU sends kids to FAANG, just like Harvard, Yale, and VaTEch do. A kid with the drive to get into a T20 will excel at any school and likely come out at the top at a non-elite/t20 school and means they will easily be hired by a good company. The notion that it really matters where you attend undergrad is a bit overblown on DCUM. Just look around at your place of employment---how many people do you work with that are T20 grads? Look at the Exec Team, how many are T20 undergrads? Most likely not that many. It's what you do at school and on the job that matters.

I agree. Also, people in the DMV area forget that the school names that are big here are NOT big outside of this area. VT doesn't have the same name recognition as UCLA. In fact, my ILs, who live in AZ, thought that Virginia Tech was a technical trade school and asked what trade my DS was going into when they saw his acceptance announcement. JMU? W&M? W&L? No one who isn't from VA knows those schools or why getting into them is so difficult.

I started my career in recruiting and hiring in CA (NorCal area). I hired just as many developers from MIT, Stanford, and UC-Berkeley as I did from U of DE, Davenport Univ., and Bloomsburg Univ.

Utterly and completely false. Provincial and ignorant, much?

If you think PP is wrong I think it’s you who is provincial. Recruiters outside the mid-Atlantic think these are on par with directional schools in other states. Which actually, I suppose they are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At a lot of these expensive city schools like UCLA OOS, USC, NYU etc what you’re really paying for is getting a foothold in that city if you want to settle in it post graduation.

I mean… you’re also just paying to live in a VCOL city. The school only controls tuition, not all the things that go into COA.

Tuition is based on cost of labor, building maintenance, salaries, shuttle bus costs etc

And most colleges lost Millions when they had to shut down for covid. Many refunded R&B in spring 2020, yet they still have to maintain the dorms even if nobody is in them--still have to have the heat on even if students are not in the dorms. Most dorms are older and cost a lot to maintain. Plus many did not layoff/fire their workers, so they were still paying salaries to be helpful

None of that explains why college's tuition and costs have risen 7 fold over the cost of interest over the last 30 years.

Insane, increasing demands of colleges re: mental health services, shuttle buses, special needs services, diversity coordinators, tutoring, renovated dorms that aren’t triples, 4 years of on-campus housing; availability of parent plus & private loans up to whatever a particular school says it’s COA is; and reduced funding from state legislatures for public universities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It already is. In theory, we could "afford" to send our kids anywhere. In practice, DC1 chose to stay instate (where we get a tuition break on top of lower tuition anyway, due to one parent's job). Total for DC1 for 4 years should be around $100K, which is about what it was for me to go to an expensive private college back in the early 90's.

It's truly hard to imagine how it would be "worth" $300K more for an undergraduate education. We're already seeing more and more great students choosing public colleges and universities, and that helps to make those schools better. I think the tipping point will eventually be that if costs of private keep rising, the best students will be choosing public, and then the whole system will implode.

There will always be wealthy smart students who can afford the elite schools. Just look at the elite HS in NYC where people pay $50K+/year. Same for all the elite boarding schools in the Northeast. People paying $75 k+ for a year of HS will have the money for college

Yes, there are rich people with smart kids, but my point is, if the smart but less rich kids are all choosing public universities, eventually, the "name brand" private colleges will be diluted with rich but less smart kids, and then what advantage will that name have? I mean, I don't see this happening soon, but as another PP pointed out, back in our day, UMD was an easy, guaranteed admit, and now it's coveted. Plus, Gen Z is just a lot smarter about not leaving college in debt.

You just described Harvard/Yale/Princeton for 300 years of their existence. They will be fine educating smart (but not the smartest) rich kids

Sorry to burst your bubble, but HYP offer the most generous financial aid of any elite private schools. If your kid can get in, they can go because HYP will make it happen. Poor and middle class kids go to HYP because HYP gives them money. Not the other elite private schools. None is so generous with FA.

Donut hole families (DMV) will get zero need based aid at HYP. Trust me on that. They have to be making less than $150k.

We’re at $180K annual income, with $50,000 in college savings and no other non-retirement assets. My son didn’t get into Princeton, but the calculator gave us an EFC of $18,000, and Harvard was at about $30,000.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It already is. In theory, we could "afford" to send our kids anywhere. In practice, DC1 chose to stay instate (where we get a tuition break on top of lower tuition anyway, due to one parent's job). Total for DC1 for 4 years should be around $100K, which is about what it was for me to go to an expensive private college back in the early 90's.

It's truly hard to imagine how it would be "worth" $300K more for an undergraduate education. We're already seeing more and more great students choosing public colleges and universities, and that helps to make those schools better. I think the tipping point will eventually be that if costs of private keep rising, the best students will be choosing public, and then the whole system will implode.

There will always be wealthy smart students who can afford the elite schools. Just look at the elite HS in NYC where people pay $50K+/year. Same for all the elite boarding schools in the Northeast. People paying $75 k+ for a year of HS will have the money for college

Yes, there are rich people with smart kids, but my point is, if the smart but less rich kids are all choosing public universities, eventually, the "name brand" private colleges will be diluted with rich but less smart kids, and then what advantage will that name have? I mean, I don't see this happening soon, but as another PP pointed out, back in our day, UMD was an easy, guaranteed admit, and now it's coveted. Plus, Gen Z is just a lot smarter about not leaving college in debt.

You just described Harvard/Yale/Princeton for 300 years of their existence. They will be fine educating smart (but not the smartest) rich kids

Sorry to burst your bubble, but HYP offer the most generous financial aid of any elite private schools. If your kid can get in, they can go because HYP will make it happen. Poor and middle class kids go to HYP because HYP gives them money. Not the other elite private schools. None is so generous with FA.

Donut hole families (DMV) will get zero need based aid at HYP. Trust me on that. They have to be making less than $150k.

We’re at $180K annual income, with $50,000 in college savings and no other non-retirement assets. My son didn’t get into Princeton, but the calculator gave us an EFC of $18,000, and Harvard was at about $30,000.

Do you own a home?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It already is. In theory, we could "afford" to send our kids anywhere. In practice, DC1 chose to stay instate (where we get a tuition break on top of lower tuition anyway, due to one parent's job). Total for DC1 for 4 years should be around $100K, which is about what it was for me to go to an expensive private college back in the early 90's.

It's truly hard to imagine how it would be "worth" $300K more for an undergraduate education. We're already seeing more and more great students choosing public colleges and universities, and that helps to make those schools better. I think the tipping point will eventually be that if costs of private keep rising, the best students will be choosing public, and then the whole system will implode.

There will always be wealthy smart students who can afford the elite schools. Just look at the elite HS in NYC where people pay $50K+/year. Same for all the elite boarding schools in the Northeast. People paying $75 k+ for a year of HS will have the money for college

Yes, there are rich people with smart kids, but my point is, if the smart but less rich kids are all choosing public universities, eventually, the "name brand" private colleges will be diluted with rich but less smart kids, and then what advantage will that name have? I mean, I don't see this happening soon, but as another PP pointed out, back in our day, UMD was an easy, guaranteed admit, and now it's coveted. Plus, Gen Z is just a lot smarter about not leaving college in debt.

You just described Harvard/Yale/Princeton for 300 years of their existence. They will be fine educating smart (but not the smartest) rich kids

Sorry to burst your bubble, but HYP offer the most generous financial aid of any elite private schools. If your kid can get in, they can go because HYP will make it happen. Poor and middle class kids go to HYP because HYP gives them money. Not the other elite private schools. None is so generous with FA.

Donut hole families (DMV) will get zero need based aid at HYP. Trust me on that. They have to be making less than $150k.

We’re at $180K annual income, with $50,000 in college savings and no other non-retirement assets. My son didn’t get into Princeton, but the calculator gave us an EFC of $18,000, and Harvard was at about $30,000.

Income doesn't tell the entire story, as others note. And $180K is really not that much above $150K.

[Anonymous]

I really don’t know how most middle to lower upper middle class people can afford colleges these days. Do most people take out loans these days? I saved about 100k in our 529 plan. That will not last for more than two years if DC#1 goes to a private.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I really don’t know how most middle to lower upper middle class people can afford colleges these days. Do most people take out loans these days? I saved about 100k in our 529 plan. That will not last for more than two years if DC#1 goes to a private.

Yes, most people take loans and most people choose lower cost public colleges.

FWIW, with merit aid my DDs private college will be $120k for 4 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I really don’t know how most middle to lower upper middle class people can afford colleges these days. Do most people take out loans these days? I saved about 100k in our 529 plan. That will not last for more than two years if DC#1 goes to a private.

That will last all four years if your kid goes to an instate school that, assuming you live in the DMV, isn’t W&M or UVA; goes to an OOS school outside of the northeast region that gives significant merit aid to OOS students or goes to a private outside the top 40ish that gives merit aid.

Lastly, you seem to view it as your child being entitled to you paying for their food, board, tuition & all incidentals all four years of college without your kid having to contribute anything. Your kid can take out the $27k (total not per year) in federal student loans. They can commute to a local university while living at home. They can go CC -> 4 year or join the military. They can work all four years of college.

Most kids who aren’t from extremely well-off families, including kids from low-income families, aren’t attending expensive elite private institutions. That’s the way it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It already is. In theory, we could "afford" to send our kids anywhere. In practice, DC1 chose to stay instate (where we get a tuition break on top of lower tuition anyway, due to one parent's job). Total for DC1 for 4 years should be around $100K, which is about what it was for me to go to an expensive private college back in the early 90's.

It's truly hard to imagine how it would be "worth" $300K more for an undergraduate education. We're already seeing more and more great students choosing public colleges and universities, and that helps to make those schools better. I think the tipping point will eventually be that if costs of private keep rising, the best students will be choosing public, and then the whole system will implode.

There will always be wealthy smart students who can afford the elite schools. Just look at the elite HS in NYC where people pay $50K+/year. Same for all the elite boarding schools in the Northeast. People paying $75 k+ for a year of HS will have the money for college

Yes, there are rich people with smart kids, but my point is, if the smart but less rich kids are all choosing public universities, eventually, the "name brand" private colleges will be diluted with rich but less smart kids, and then what advantage will that name have? I mean, I don't see this happening soon, but as another PP pointed out, back in our day, UMD was an easy, guaranteed admit, and now it's coveted. Plus, Gen Z is just a lot smarter about not leaving college in debt.

You just described Harvard/Yale/Princeton for 300 years of their existence. They will be fine educating smart (but not the smartest) rich kids

Sorry to burst your bubble, but HYP offer the most generous financial aid of any elite private schools. If your kid can get in, they can go because HYP will make it happen. Poor and middle class kids go to HYP because HYP gives them money. Not the other elite private schools. None is so generous with FA.

Donut hole families (DMV) will get zero need based aid at HYP. Trust me on that. They have to be making less than $150k.

We’re at $180K annual income, with $50,000 in college savings and no other non-retirement assets. My son didn’t get into Princeton, but the calculator gave us an EFC of $18,000, and Harvard was at about $30,000.

Income doesn't tell the entire story, as others note. And $180K is really not that much above $150K.

I think you are misinterpreting what PP saying…at Princeton they would be receiving around $67,000 in need-based aid at $180k of HHI, and only have to pay $18,000 per year.

The folks who keep yelling “donut hole” either are complaining about need aware schools like a Tulane or make in excess of $300k per year (which most would not say is donut hole).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It already is. In theory, we could "afford" to send our kids anywhere. In practice, DC1 chose to stay instate (where we get a tuition break on top of lower tuition anyway, due to one parent's job). Total for DC1 for 4 years should be around $100K, which is about what it was for me to go to an expensive private college back in the early 90's.

It's truly hard to imagine how it would be "worth" $300K more for an undergraduate education. We're already seeing more and more great students choosing public colleges and universities, and that helps to make those schools better. I think the tipping point will eventually be that if costs of private keep rising, the best students will be choosing public, and then the whole system will implode.

There will always be wealthy smart students who can afford the elite schools. Just look at the elite HS in NYC where people pay $50K+/year. Same for all the elite boarding schools in the Northeast. People paying $75 k+ for a year of HS will have the money for college

Yes, there are rich people with smart kids, but my point is, if the smart but less rich kids are all choosing public universities, eventually, the "name brand" private colleges will be diluted with rich but less smart kids, and then what advantage will that name have? I mean, I don't see this happening soon, but as another PP pointed out, back in our day, UMD was an easy, guaranteed admit, and now it's coveted. Plus, Gen Z is just a lot smarter about not leaving college in debt.

You just described Harvard/Yale/Princeton for 300 years of their existence. They will be fine educating smart (but not the smartest) rich kids

Sorry to burst your bubble, but HYP offer the most generous financial aid of any elite private schools. If your kid can get in, they can go because HYP will make it happen. Poor and middle class kids go to HYP because HYP gives them money. Not the other elite private schools. None is so generous with FA.

Donut hole families (DMV) will get zero need based aid at HYP. Trust me on that. They have to be making less than $150k.

We’re at $180K annual income, with $50,000 in college savings and no other non-retirement assets. My son didn’t get into Princeton, but the calculator gave us an EFC of $18,000, and Harvard was at about $30,000.

We have a comparable annual income, own a house, and only possess retirement assets. Our second child was accepted into one of the top 50 private schools, and we received a significant amount of financial aid. Thanks to a four-year assurance, we'll be paying less than the cost of tuition at a state school for her entire education, even though our first child will be graduating next year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It already is. In theory, we could "afford" to send our kids anywhere. In practice, DC1 chose to stay instate (where we get a tuition break on top of lower tuition anyway, due to one parent's job). Total for DC1 for 4 years should be around $100K, which is about what it was for me to go to an expensive private college back in the early 90's.

It's truly hard to imagine how it would be "worth" $300K more for an undergraduate education. We're already seeing more and more great students choosing public colleges and universities, and that helps to make those schools better. I think the tipping point will eventually be that if costs of private keep rising, the best students will be choosing public, and then the whole system will implode.

There will always be wealthy smart students who can afford the elite schools. Just look at the elite HS in NYC where people pay $50K+/year. Same for all the elite boarding schools in the Northeast. People paying $75 k+ for a year of HS will have the money for college

Yes, there are rich people with smart kids, but my point is, if the smart but less rich kids are all choosing public universities, eventually, the "name brand" private colleges will be diluted with rich but less smart kids, and then what advantage will that name have? I mean, I don't see this happening soon, but as another PP pointed out, back in our day, UMD was an easy, guaranteed admit, and now it's coveted. Plus, Gen Z is just a lot smarter about not leaving college in debt.

You just described Harvard/Yale/Princeton for 300 years of their existence. They will be fine educating smart (but not the smartest) rich kids

Sorry to burst your bubble, but HYP offer the most generous financial aid of any elite private schools. If your kid can get in, they can go because HYP will make it happen. Poor and middle class kids go to HYP because HYP gives them money. Not the other elite private schools. None is so generous with FA.

Donut hole families (DMV) will get zero need based aid at HYP. Trust me on that. They have to be making less than $150k.

We’re at $180K annual income, with $50,000 in college savings and no other non-retirement assets. My son didn’t get into Princeton, but the calculator gave us an EFC of $18,000, and Harvard was at about $30,000.

Nice to hear real data points. So Princeton could be done for your family (if only you can win the lottery). Your $50K plus a bit of cash flow and the kid working summers and you graduate with $27K in student loan debt. Harvard would be a bit more of a stretch. but you are definately Not getting "nothing".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It already is. In theory, we could "afford" to send our kids anywhere. In practice, DC1 chose to stay instate (where we get a tuition break on top of lower tuition anyway, due to one parent's job). Total for DC1 for 4 years should be around $100K, which is about what it was for me to go to an expensive private college back in the early 90's.

It's truly hard to imagine how it would be "worth" $300K more for an undergraduate education. We're already seeing more and more great students choosing public colleges and universities, and that helps to make those schools better. I think the tipping point will eventually be that if costs of private keep rising, the best students will be choosing public, and then the whole system will implode.

There will always be wealthy smart students who can afford the elite schools. Just look at the elite HS in NYC where people pay $50K+/year. Same for all the elite boarding schools in the Northeast. People paying $75 k+ for a year of HS will have the money for college

Yes, there are rich people with smart kids, but my point is, if the smart but less rich kids are all choosing public universities, eventually, the "name brand" private colleges will be diluted with rich but less smart kids, and then what advantage will that name have? I mean, I don't see this happening soon, but as another PP pointed out, back in our day, UMD was an easy, guaranteed admit, and now it's coveted. Plus, Gen Z is just a lot smarter about not leaving college in debt.

You just described Harvard/Yale/Princeton for 300 years of their existence. They will be fine educating smart (but not the smartest) rich kids

Sorry to burst your bubble, but HYP offer the most generous financial aid of any elite private schools. If your kid can get in, they can go because HYP will make it happen. Poor and middle class kids go to HYP because HYP gives them money. Not the other elite private schools. None is so generous with FA.

Donut hole families (DMV) will get zero need based aid at HYP. Trust me on that. They have to be making less than $150k.

We’re at $180K annual income, with $50,000 in college savings and no other non-retirement assets. My son didn’t get into Princeton, but the calculator gave us an EFC of $18,000, and Harvard was at about $30,000.

We have a comparable annual income, own a house, and only possess retirement assets. Our second child was accepted into one of the top 50 private schools, and we received a significant amount of financial aid. Thanks to a four-year assurance, we'll be paying less than the cost of tuition at a state school for her entire education, even though our first child will be graduating next year.

That's great! Nice to see that the system works.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really don’t know how most middle to lower upper middle class people can afford colleges these days. Do most people take out loans these days? I saved about 100k in our 529 plan. That will not last for more than two years if DC#1 goes to a private.

Yes, most people take loans and most people choose lower cost public colleges.

FWIW, with merit aid my DDs private college will be $120k for 4 years.

+1000

If you only have $100K saved for college and cannot cash flow more (which you likely cannot do), you go to your state schools, you search merit (both in private and state schools) and find a place you can afford. You have $25K/year to spend, add in your kid earning $10K and you cash flowing $5-8K (reasonable for someone who has saved $100K). So you have ~$40K/year. There are hundreds of schools your kid can attend for that---especially if they are higher stats. Smart people find schools they can afford and go there.

FYI--my 25 ACT/3.5UW/No AP kid attended a school in the T100 for only $40K/year. had two other offers at private schools for similar costs and one ranked T130 that would have cost only $30K. So NOT high stats (80-85% overall) and found many privates that gave good merit and we were not even searching merit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really don’t know how most middle to lower upper middle class people can afford colleges these days. Do most people take out loans these days? I saved about 100k in our 529 plan. That will not last for more than two years if DC#1 goes to a private.

That will last all four years if your kid goes to an instate school that, assuming you live in the DMV, isn’t W&M or UVA; goes to an OOS school outside of the northeast region that gives significant merit aid to OOS students or goes to a private outside the top 40ish that gives merit aid.

Lastly, you seem to view it as your child being charged entitled to you paying for their food, board, tuition & all incidentals all four years of college without your kid having to contribute anything. Your kid can take out the $27k (total not per year) in federal student loans. They can commute to a local university while living at home. They can go CC -> 4 year or join the military. They can work all four years of college.

Most kids who aren’t from extremely well-off families, including kids from low-income families, aren’t attending expensive elite private institutions. That’s the way it is.

Her post reflects nothing about entitlement. Nothing. You are projecting in order to use that much-overused word.