Another perspective on “prepping” from a lower income mom

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If tests were so easy to game through prepping, then how do you explain the varsity blues scandal? Rich parents paid smart kids to take the test for their kids, or paid proctors to give false/inflated results.

Their children are likely lazy and incredibly dumb because tests are easy to game through prepping.

There are legitimate studies with proper control groups that show prepping on SAT increases the score by about 10-20 points out of 800.

You are confused by the prep marketing materials that claim 100+ increase “guarantee” etc.

Prepping for the SAT is different than prepping for the CogAT. They are different types of tests, measuring different things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If tests were so easy to game through prepping, then how do you explain the varsity blues scandal? Rich parents paid smart kids to take the test for their kids, or paid proctors to give false/inflated results.

+1

Operation varsity blues highlighted the most selfish, aggressive form of gaming the system. Their kids where too thick to pass the test to the standard that the parents wanted but that doesn't mean that prepping doesn't work. Otherwise equality of outcome across race and class would be the norm.*

* If on average everyone across all races and classes were born with the same abilities and would do everything the same over their lifetime.

Everyone talks about educational achievement gap, nobody talks about the homework gap, which is the average amount of time spent on homework and other educational activities (I’d include prepping here, lol), daily in minutes:

White: 70 min
Black: 48 min
Hispanic: 61 min
Asian: 161 min

Source:
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/epub/10.1177/07311214221101422

Stunning but underappreciated fact. I mean, Asian:Black > 3.

If you sincerely think that equitable outcomes between Asians and non-Asians are reasonable even given this reality, then you must think non-Asians are significantly smarter than Asians. But if you believe everyone is at parity in raw ability, then it's just not reasonable to think Asians won't excel once you factor in effort.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If tests were so easy to game through prepping, then how do you explain the varsity blues scandal? Rich parents paid smart kids to take the test for their kids, or paid proctors to give false/inflated results.

Their children are likely lazy and incredibly dumb because tests are easy to game through prepping.

There are legitimate studies with proper control groups that show prepping on SAT increases the score by about 10-20 points out of 800.

You are confused by the prep marketing materials that claim 100+ increase “guarantee” etc.

Prepping for the SAT is different than prepping for the CogAT. They are different types of tests, measuring different things.

Of course they measure different things since they are different tests. I’m waiting for you to say Cogat measures ‘natural’ ability, and explain what ‘natural’ is without getting into a circular argument.

You’re upset your kid didn’t get over 99% or whatever arbitrary ability you set for him. Qualifying into AAP is not the ultimate goal, kids flourish whenever they are supported in their learning and endevours. Do this instead of focusing how others are gaming the system, that’s far better for your kid than what you’re doing now. You just sound like the crazy redshirter on dcum that found yet another way others are keeping her child down (although now that I think of it, chances are you are the same person).

Another thing about others prepping, this is totally outside of your control, you can’t prevent it and it’s not as effective as you think. You don’t want to prep your child, good for you and I agree with you, go find something that gets him excited. But understand there may be a trade off of not gettibg into a program with entrance based off standardized testing cutoff scores. It’s not a tragedy, he’s not a failure, he can still be successful in academics, thousands of kids are every year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If tests were so easy to game through prepping, then how do you explain the varsity blues scandal? Rich parents paid smart kids to take the test for their kids, or paid proctors to give false/inflated results.

Their children are likely lazy and incredibly dumb because tests are easy to game through prepping.

There are legitimate studies with proper control groups that show prepping on SAT increases the score by about 10-20 points out of 800.

You are confused by the prep marketing materials that claim 100+ increase “guarantee” etc.

Prepping for the SAT is different than prepping for the CogAT. They are different types of tests, measuring different things.

Of course they measure different things since they are different tests. I’m waiting for you to say Cogat measures ‘natural’ ability, and explain what ‘natural’ is without getting into a circular argument.

You’re upset your kid didn’t get over 99% or whatever arbitrary ability you set for him. Qualifying into AAP is not the ultimate goal, kids flourish whenever they are supported in their learning and endevours. Do this instead of focusing how others are gaming the system, that’s far better for your kid than what you’re doing now. You just sound like the crazy redshirter on dcum that found yet another way others are keeping her child down (although now that I think of it, chances are you are the same person).

Another thing about others prepping, this is totally outside of your control, you can’t prevent it and it’s not as effective as you think. You don’t want to prep your child, good for you and I agree with you, go find something that gets him excited. But understand there may be a trade off of not gettibg into a program with entrance based off standardized testing cutoff scores. It’s not a tragedy, he’s not a failure, he can still be successful in academics, thousands of kids are every year.

DP. I don't know about that poster but my kids have "natural" smarts and got 99% without any prepping because why would I prep them? But it is true that the program has been diluted in recent years due to the expansion of admissions, as well as to the expansion of prepping. So the prepped kids aren't going to struggle, since the program has been slowed down. Now it's just right for them. A bit slow for my kids tho...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If tests were so easy to game through prepping, then how do you explain the varsity blues scandal? Rich parents paid smart kids to take the test for their kids, or paid proctors to give false/inflated results.

Their children are likely lazy and incredibly dumb because tests are easy to game through prepping.

There are legitimate studies with proper control groups that show prepping on SAT increases the score by about 10-20 points out of 800.

You are confused by the prep marketing materials that claim 100+ increase “guarantee” etc.

Prepping for the SAT is different than prepping for the CogAT. They are different types of tests, measuring different things.

Of course they measure different things since they are different tests. I’m waiting for you to say Cogat measures ‘natural’ ability, and explain what ‘natural’ is without getting into a circular argument.

You’re upset your kid didn’t get over 99% or whatever arbitrary ability you set for him. Qualifying into AAP is not the ultimate goal, kids flourish whenever they are supported in their learning and endevours. Do this instead of focusing how others are gaming the system, that’s far better for your kid than what you’re doing now. You just sound like the crazy redshirter on dcum that found yet another way others are keeping her child down (although now that I think of it, chances are you are the same person).

Another thing about others prepping, this is totally outside of your control, you can’t prevent it and it’s not as effective as you think. You don’t want to prep your child, good for you and I agree with you, go find something that gets him excited. But understand there may be a trade off of not gettibg into a program with entrance based off standardized testing cutoff scores. It’s not a tragedy, he’s not a failure, he can still be successful in academics, thousands of kids are every year.

DP. I don't know about that poster but my kids have "natural" smarts and got 99% without any prepping because why would I prep them? But it is true that the program has been diluted in recent years due to the expansion of admissions, as well as to the expansion of prepping. So the prepped kids aren't going to struggle, since the program has been slowed down. Now it's just right for them. A bit slow for my kids tho...

So what’s bothering you then?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If tests were so easy to game through prepping, then how do you explain the varsity blues scandal? Rich parents paid smart kids to take the test for their kids, or paid proctors to give false/inflated results.

Their children are likely lazy and incredibly dumb because tests are easy to game through prepping.

There are legitimate studies with proper control groups that show prepping on SAT increases the score by about 10-20 points out of 800.

You are confused by the prep marketing materials that claim 100+ increase “guarantee” etc.

Prepping for the SAT is different than prepping for the CogAT. They are different types of tests, measuring different things.

Of course they measure different things since they are different tests. I’m waiting for you to say Cogat measures ‘natural’ ability, and explain what ‘natural’ is without getting into a circular argument.

You’re upset your kid didn’t get over 99% or whatever arbitrary ability you set for him. Qualifying into AAP is not the ultimate goal, kids flourish whenever they are supported in their learning and endevours. Do this instead of focusing how others are gaming the system, that’s far better for your kid than what you’re doing now. You just sound like the crazy redshirter on dcum that found yet another way others are keeping her child down (although now that I think of it, chances are you are the same person).

Another thing about others prepping, this is totally outside of your control, you can’t prevent it and it’s not as effective as you think. You don’t want to prep your child, good for you and I agree with you, go find something that gets him excited. But understand there may be a trade off of not gettibg into a program with entrance based off standardized testing cutoff scores. It’s not a tragedy, he’s not a failure, he can still be successful in academics, thousands of kids are every year.

DP. I don't know about that poster but my kids have "natural" smarts and got 99% without any prepping because why would I prep them? But it is true that the program has been diluted in recent years due to the expansion of admissions, as well as to the expansion of prepping. So the prepped kids aren't going to struggle, since the program has been slowed down. Now it's just right for them. A bit slow for my kids tho...

So what’s bothering you then?

I thought one of the benefits of the program was that DS would see that he's not the smartest kid in the class, that there are other very smart kids. That hasn't worked out so well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If tests were so easy to game through prepping, then how do you explain the varsity blues scandal? Rich parents paid smart kids to take the test for their kids, or paid proctors to give false/inflated results.

Their children are likely lazy and incredibly dumb because tests are easy to game through prepping.

There are legitimate studies with proper control groups that show prepping on SAT increases the score by about 10-20 points out of 800.

You are confused by the prep marketing materials that claim 100+ increase “guarantee” etc.

Prepping for the SAT is different than prepping for the CogAT. They are different types of tests, measuring different things.

Of course they measure different things since they are different tests. I’m waiting for you to say Cogat measures ‘natural’ ability, and explain what ‘natural’ is without getting into a circular argument.

You’re upset your kid didn’t get over 99% or whatever arbitrary ability you set for him. Qualifying into AAP is not the ultimate goal, kids flourish whenever they are supported in their learning and endevours. Do this instead of focusing how others are gaming the system, that’s far better for your kid than what you’re doing now. You just sound like the crazy redshirter on dcum that found yet another way others are keeping her child down (although now that I think of it, chances are you are the same person).

Another thing about others prepping, this is totally outside of your control, you can’t prevent it and it’s not as effective as you think. You don’t want to prep your child, good for you and I agree with you, go find something that gets him excited. But understand there may be a trade off of not gettibg into a program with entrance based off standardized testing cutoff scores. It’s not a tragedy, he’s not a failure, he can still be successful in academics, thousands of kids are every year.

DP. I don't know about that poster but my kids have "natural" smarts and got 99% without any prepping because why would I prep them? But it is true that the program has been diluted in recent years due to the expansion of admissions, as well as to the expansion of prepping. So the prepped kids aren't going to struggle, since the program has been slowed down. Now it's just right for them. A bit slow for my kids tho...

So what’s bothering you then?

I thought one of the benefits of the program was that DS would see that he's not the smartest kid in the class, that there are other very smart kids. That hasn't worked out so well.

Again, focus less on others and more on your children’s needs. Enroll them in some enrichment activity that challenges them academically like Art of Problem Solving or Russian School of Math. Unless you think that’s also prepping and/or cheating, in which case find something that checks all your boxes.

Let the poor single mom buy whatever prepping materials for her kids without accusing her of cheating.

If the rich parent want to spend 10k on their children’s clothes, toys, hobbies, sports or education, that’s fine too!

Problem solved, everyone’s happy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If tests were so easy to game through prepping, then how do you explain the varsity blues scandal? Rich parents paid smart kids to take the test for their kids, or paid proctors to give false/inflated results.

Their children are likely lazy and incredibly dumb because tests are easy to game through prepping.

There are legitimate studies with proper control groups that show prepping on SAT increases the score by about 10-20 points out of 800.

You are confused by the prep marketing materials that claim 100+ increase “guarantee” etc.

Prepping for the SAT is different than prepping for the CogAT. They are different types of tests, measuring different things.

Of course they measure different things since they are different tests. I’m waiting for you to say Cogat measures ‘natural’ ability, and explain what ‘natural’ is without getting into a circular argument.

You’re upset your kid didn’t get over 99% or whatever arbitrary ability you set for him. Qualifying into AAP is not the ultimate goal, kids flourish whenever they are supported in their learning and endevours. Do this instead of focusing how others are gaming the system, that’s far better for your kid than what you’re doing now. You just sound like the crazy redshirter on dcum that found yet another way others are keeping her child down (although now that I think of it, chances are you are the same person).

Another thing about others prepping, this is totally outside of your control, you can’t prevent it and it’s not as effective as you think. You don’t want to prep your child, good for you and I agree with you, go find something that gets him excited. But understand there may be a trade off of not gettibg into a program with entrance based off standardized testing cutoff scores. It’s not a tragedy, he’s not a failure, he can still be successful in academics, thousands of kids are every year.

DP. I don't know about that poster but my kids have "natural" smarts and got 99% without any prepping because why would I prep them? But it is true that the program has been diluted in recent years due to the expansion of admissions, as well as to the expansion of prepping. So the prepped kids aren't going to struggle, since the program has been slowed down. Now it's just right for them. A bit slow for my kids tho...

So what’s bothering you then?

I thought one of the benefits of the program was that DS would see that he's not the smartest kid in the class, that there are other very smart kids. That hasn't worked out so well.

LOL of course your kid is the smartest kid in the class anywhere, there are simply no others like him. Do you hear yourself? What's it like to go through life with that much pomposity?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Yes, but over 90% of the kids who get in prepped for years. IF you don't believe me just go to a prep center some weekend and look at how many kids are there. There's good reason there are so many prep options here.

Faulty logic. Lots of people at prep centers doesn't mean 90% got in thru prep. Going to a prep center is not a guarantee of admission. Nearly everyone I know who went to Curie did not get in to TJ or AOS.

Actually, no, their logic seems based on fact. Especially since just one of the many NVA prep centers claimed to have accounted for 30% of the entering class. Also, in my DD AAP class, the teacher polled the kids to see who had prepped for admission, and they said almost everyone raised their hands. I know it's not formal, but it sure seems like kids who are honest and unashamed of admitting this is far more reliable than a bunch of overzealous tiger parents. I get it you want to downplay this to help keep the competition down but I think the cats out of the bag.

Again with the faulty logic. 30% of admissions, but how many applicants? I suspect they had way more attending the classes, based on all these people I speak to who send their kids to Curie. Now if some of these 6th/7th graders get kids in, I will have to concede they are helping, because we are talking about kids I would judge as having no chance. I know several now 9th graders who similarly did not get in, who were better students than the ones I am considering not qualified.

Here's the thing - if indeed Curie had an enormous number of applicants in order to account for their huge share of the freshmen class each year, that means you have a large number of Indian families who are paying $4-5K and sending their kids to hundreds of hours of additional prep because they felt forced to by the system. Parents shouldn't feel like it's a requirement to drop resources that many folks do not have or cannot afford to allocate to boutique prep in order to have a fair shot at admissions.

We should all agree - obviously - that even if the Curie course didn't result in guaranteed admission, that it almost certainly boosted students' scores on the admissions battery at least on some level. Remember that in the old system, students had to achieve specific percentile scores on all three exams in order to be considered for admissions at all - the exams were the only metric that culled the field from "applicants" to "semifinalists" and was thus a hard barrier to entry. If a student scored in the 99th percentile on math and science but the 74th percentile on the ACT Aspire English, that student could not be considered for admission.

I shudder to think of how many well-qualified applicants for TJ over those three years were booted out of the process because of inflated scores from mediocre kids who didn't even get in to TJ but spent thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours to fail in their mission.

I'm not familiar with the courses, but it looks like there is enrichment courses, and enrichment+TJ courses, so most of the families are probably paying for enrichment most of the time, and in 8th grade have some TJ prep added in. I suspect most of this prep could be duplicated in public schools, and I have noticed dome Loudoun teachers doing this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A few ideas for free enrichment in the DC area:

Lots of free museums in the DC area.

A library card is free and offers the ability to both take out physical books from the library but also access tons of free books online. Libraries also have lots of free programs- you need the kids the website frequently to see what is scheduled.

Also, where I live, Fairfax County, a few parks have nature centers with free programs about the animals and plants in the park. I’ve lived other places where the parks have similar programs, too.

OP already said she doesn’t have time to take kid to free stuff. She’s working two jobs, plus taking care of her elderly mother. I applaud the OP for her efforts. She is trying to do the best she can for her child. Does it really matter if it’s a Cogat workbook or Singapore math workbook? She’s not having the kid spend hours on it (only 10 mins). He would be watching TV instead.

[Anonymous]

https://www.urbanpro.com/usa/va-ashburn/math-olympiad-classes/32822817

This is a website I found for lessons.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If tests were so easy to game through prepping, then how do you explain the varsity blues scandal? Rich parents paid smart kids to take the test for their kids, or paid proctors to give false/inflated results.

Their children are likely lazy and incredibly dumb because tests are easy to game through prepping.

There are legitimate studies with proper control groups that show prepping on SAT increases the score by about 10-20 points out of 800.

You are confused by the prep marketing materials that claim 100+ increase “guarantee” etc.

Prepping for the SAT is different than prepping for the CogAT. They are different types of tests, measuring different things.

not really

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If tests were so easy to game through prepping, then how do you explain the varsity blues scandal? Rich parents paid smart kids to take the test for their kids, or paid proctors to give false/inflated results.

Their children are likely lazy and incredibly dumb because tests are easy to game through prepping.

There are legitimate studies with proper control groups that show prepping on SAT increases the score by about 10-20 points out of 800.

You are confused by the prep marketing materials that claim 100+ increase “guarantee” etc.

Prepping for the SAT is different than prepping for the CogAT. They are different types of tests, measuring different things.

not really

Look, there's nothing wrong with being ignorant about the differences between what these standardized tests are about, but why be so intentional about it?