Arlington Missing Middle Housing Q&A

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If they do that, then it looks like they are exempting the best off areas and foisting up zoning on everyone else

Why not let civic associations vote on whether they want to upzone their neighborhood? or put it on the ballot for all of Arlington to vote on at the very least?

I imagine the people living in the neighborhoods that will be most affected are more than 50% opposed - and if that's the case maybe the board isn't making a compelling case for why this benefits their constituents. And if that's the case it seems odd to me that you're going to go against the wishes of current Arlingtonians to benefit potential future Arlingtonians who don't live here now.

I think a lot of people supporting MM are already in Arlington—they just aren’t home owners yet. They are renters who want to buy.

Nobody I have encountered in a SFH in my home near Metro is in favor of this. And, the County has screwed us over time and time again.

Right now due to their lax enforcement we have SFH the height and size of apartment buildings on miniscule lots which has created a serious water table issue.

They are so in the builders' pockets its repulsive. And, yes, the people that want this don't actually own a home in any of these neighborhoods.

They use the vast number of renters along the RBC and S.Arl to drive up the survey numbers in the direction they want. F@)k the homeowners is the 'Arlington Way' now.

Bingo. The renters revolt

+100

[Anonymous]

It's a wonder to watch some of the most privileged in our society clothe themselves in rightousness as they pull the ladder up behind them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's a wonder to watch some of the most privileged in our society clothe themselves in rightousness as they pull the ladder up behind them.

I think this is very unfair. Nowhere in the entire United States has the type of reforms proposed in Arlington. Of course people who have worked hard to make their homes here are worried. This is an extreme proposal and it should (but will not) be dialed back to try and thread the needle in a way that balances things out and recognizes the infrastructure issues. We can have change without going nuclear.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a wonder to watch some of the most privileged in our society clothe themselves in rightousness as they pull the ladder up behind them.

I think this is very unfair. Nowhere in the entire United States has the type of reforms proposed in Arlington. Of course people who have worked hard to make their homes here are worried. This is an extreme proposal and it should (but will not) be dialed back to try and thread the needle in a way that balances things out and recognizes the infrastructure issues. We can have change without going nuclear.

I think this is very delusional. Try slumming it one day and drive through South Arlington. Plenty of examples that have been there for decades now. South Glebe Rd - they just slapped up some more oluxury townhouses on a little slip of land located across the street from a couple of apartment buildings, and then across the road there is a small infill build of large luxury SFH houses from about 10 years ago, a couple duplexes next to that, then next to that shoehorned in on some awkward strip another set of townhouses that are about 15 years old. Tons of small SFH homes behind that. Across the street a hand full of infill build townhomes from a decade ago then next to that some habit for humanity townhomes also from a 12+ yrs ago and next to that this small little apartment building that has seriously been there forever but recently got repainted and I think some renovations. Oh wait I forget that one SFH with what appears to be junkyard that grows in the front yard. All that infill building and people happily purchased those homes at very high prices. Those people worked hard to make their homes here. There is absolutely nothing extreme about this proposal because it already happens. They are just making sure it happens more places.

I don't know if people like you are really this dumb but you do realize that only certain lots are going to be useful for a developer. Duplexes and tri plexes might be ok for an individual home builder but actual developer companies want something that will be a community. That's their business. They don't build one off houses. So the actual number of lots that are going to meet that need in North Arlington that they can buy at a cost that will allow them to recoup their investment is pretty limited. They aren't going to bother to buy SFHs to tear down to replace. It's too costly in terms of dollars and time. They might take down a single small house but what they really want is land and no existing building. It's quicker and less costly. Remember they deal in volume. Now the smaller home builders, They might do the duplex but maybe not. It's a different kind of build verses one single family home. There is a start up cost if the builder isn't already in that space that might be too costly and time consuming to consider. Two smaller SFH on the same lot is more likely. What is not likely is that any of those home will be substantially less in cost that any other home in the neighborhood. They will be slightly less but not much less. And "affordable housing" ?? Forget it. Too expensive to deal with unless someone gives them the house and a substantial lot for free. Even with tax credits that can't offset the cost enough to make it profitable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a wonder to watch some of the most privileged in our society clothe themselves in rightousness as they pull the ladder up behind them.

I think this is very unfair. Nowhere in the entire United States has the type of reforms proposed in Arlington. Of course people who have worked hard to make their homes here are worried. This is an extreme proposal and it should (but will not) be dialed back to try and thread the needle in a way that balances things out and recognizes the infrastructure issues. We can have change without going nuclear.

I think this is very delusional. Try slumming it one day and drive through South Arlington. Plenty of examples that have been there for decades now. South Glebe Rd - they just slapped up some more oluxury townhouses on a little slip of land located across the street from a couple of apartment buildings, and then across the road there is a small infill build of large luxury SFH houses from about 10 years ago, a couple duplexes next to that, then next to that shoehorned in on some awkward strip another set of townhouses that are about 15 years old. Tons of small SFH homes behind that. Across the street a hand full of infill build townhomes from a decade ago then next to that some habit for humanity townhomes also from a 12+ yrs ago and next to that this small little apartment building that has seriously been there forever but recently got repainted and I think some renovations. Oh wait I forget that one SFH with what appears to be junkyard that grows in the front yard. All that infill building and people happily purchased those homes at very high prices. Those people worked hard to make their homes here. There is absolutely nothing extreme about this proposal because it already happens. They are just making sure it happens more places.

I don't know if people like you are really this dumb but you do realize that only certain lots are going to be useful for a developer. Duplexes and tri plexes might be ok for an individual home builder but actual developer companies want something that will be a community. That's their business. They don't build one off houses. So the actual number of lots that are going to meet that need in North Arlington that they can buy at a cost that will allow them to recoup their investment is pretty limited. They aren't going to bother to buy SFHs to tear down to replace. It's too costly in terms of dollars and time. They might take down a single small house but what they really want is land and no existing building. It's quicker and less costly. Remember they deal in volume. Now the smaller home builders, They might do the duplex but maybe not. It's a different kind of build verses one single family home. There is a start up cost if the builder isn't already in that space that might be too costly and time consuming to consider. Two smaller SFH on the same lot is more likely. What is not likely is that any of those home will be substantially less in cost that any other home in the neighborhood. They will be slightly less but not much less. And "affordable housing" ?? Forget it. Too expensive to deal with unless someone gives them the house and a substantial lot for free. Even with tax credits that can't offset the cost enough to make it profitable.

Tell me you aren’t a builder, without actually telling me you aren’t a builder. You are literally missing the point of MMH. Right now, you need a lot that is big enough to be sub-divided to create 2 SFH. With the proposal, you can now build a triplex and sell each for around a million and make more money than if you put up a 2.5 million dollar SF house. You are disincentivizing SFH in a SFH neighborhood. One thing you did get right is that you aren’t really helping those that are disadvantaged- you are building density and helping someone who can afford a million dollar home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a wonder to watch some of the most privileged in our society clothe themselves in rightousness as they pull the ladder up behind them.

I think this is very unfair. Nowhere in the entire United States has the type of reforms proposed in Arlington. Of course people who have worked hard to make their homes here are worried. This is an extreme proposal and it should (but will not) be dialed back to try and thread the needle in a way that balances things out and recognizes the infrastructure issues. We can have change without going nuclear.

I think this is very delusional. Try slumming it one day and drive through South Arlington. Plenty of examples that have been there for decades now. South Glebe Rd - they just slapped up some more oluxury townhouses on a little slip of land located across the street from a couple of apartment buildings, and then across the road there is a small infill build of large luxury SFH houses from about 10 years ago, a couple duplexes next to that, then next to that shoehorned in on some awkward strip another set of townhouses that are about 15 years old. Tons of small SFH homes behind that. Across the street a hand full of infill build townhomes from a decade ago then next to that some habit for humanity townhomes also from a 12+ yrs ago and next to that this small little apartment building that has seriously been there forever but recently got repainted and I think some renovations. Oh wait I forget that one SFH with what appears to be junkyard that grows in the front yard. All that infill building and people happily purchased those homes at very high prices. Those people worked hard to make their homes here. There is absolutely nothing extreme about this proposal because it already happens. They are just making sure it happens more places.

I don't know if people like you are really this dumb but you do realize that only certain lots are going to be useful for a developer. Duplexes and tri plexes might be ok for an individual home builder but actual developer companies want something that will be a community. That's their business. They don't build one off houses. So the actual number of lots that are going to meet that need in North Arlington that they can buy at a cost that will allow them to recoup their investment is pretty limited. They aren't going to bother to buy SFHs to tear down to replace. It's too costly in terms of dollars and time. They might take down a single small house but what they really want is land and no existing building. It's quicker and less costly. Remember they deal in volume. Now the smaller home builders, They might do the duplex but maybe not. It's a different kind of build verses one single family home. There is a start up cost if the builder isn't already in that space that might be too costly and time consuming to consider. Two smaller SFH on the same lot is more likely. What is not likely is that any of those home will be substantially less in cost that any other home in the neighborhood. They will be slightly less but not much less. And "affordable housing" ?? Forget it. Too expensive to deal with unless someone gives them the house and a substantial lot for free. Even with tax credits that can't offset the cost enough to make it profitable.

I am familiar with South Arlington. I have lived there in the past, and I have friends who have lived there. Most of the information in your post above is patently false. Another poster has already pointed this out.

[Anonymous]

Feedback on the Missing Middle proposal is still being accepted at this link:

https://us.openforms.com/Form/5ae543a6-420c-4a53-8a5a-5c2bd1cce99e

[Anonymous]

Plenty of shit areas to buy in still

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a wonder to watch some of the most privileged in our society clothe themselves in rightousness as they pull the ladder up behind them.

I think this is very unfair. Nowhere in the entire United States has the type of reforms proposed in Arlington. Of course people who have worked hard to make their homes here are worried. This is an extreme proposal and it should (but will not) be dialed back to try and thread the needle in a way that balances things out and recognizes the infrastructure issues. We can have change without going nuclear.

I think this is very delusional. Try slumming it one day and drive through South Arlington. Plenty of examples that have been there for decades now. South Glebe Rd - they just slapped up some more oluxury townhouses on a little slip of land located across the street from a couple of apartment buildings, and then across the road there is a small infill build of large luxury SFH houses from about 10 years ago, a couple duplexes next to that, then next to that shoehorned in on some awkward strip another set of townhouses that are about 15 years old. Tons of small SFH homes behind that. Across the street a hand full of infill build townhomes from a decade ago then next to that some habit for humanity townhomes also from a 12+ yrs ago and next to that this small little apartment building that has seriously been there forever but recently got repainted and I think some renovations. Oh wait I forget that one SFH with what appears to be junkyard that grows in the front yard. All that infill building and people happily purchased those homes at very high prices. Those people worked hard to make their homes here. There is absolutely nothing extreme about this proposal because it already happens. They are just making sure it happens more places.

I don't know if people like you are really this dumb but you do realize that only certain lots are going to be useful for a developer. Duplexes and tri plexes might be ok for an individual home builder but actual developer companies want something that will be a community. That's their business. They don't build one off houses. So the actual number of lots that are going to meet that need in North Arlington that they can buy at a cost that will allow them to recoup their investment is pretty limited. They aren't going to bother to buy SFHs to tear down to replace. It's too costly in terms of dollars and time. They might take down a single small house but what they really want is land and no existing building. It's quicker and less costly. Remember they deal in volume. Now the smaller home builders, They might do the duplex but maybe not. It's a different kind of build verses one single family home. There is a start up cost if the builder isn't already in that space that might be too costly and time consuming to consider. Two smaller SFH on the same lot is more likely. What is not likely is that any of those home will be substantially less in cost that any other home in the neighborhood. They will be slightly less but not much less. And "affordable housing" ?? Forget it. Too expensive to deal with unless someone gives them the house and a substantial lot for free. Even with tax credits that can't offset the cost enough to make it profitable.

tl;dr for those interested: calls people dumb, proceeds to sound like he / she has room temperature IQ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know which neighborhoods have restrictive covenants?

Broyhill Forest
Waycroft Woodlawn
Lacey Forest
Larchmont

Probably more.

The question is whether the zoning restrictions will just be loosened (in which case covenants stand) or if they will affirmatively allow the new buildings (in which case the covenants are superseded by law)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a wonder to watch some of the most privileged in our society clothe themselves in rightousness as they pull the ladder up behind them.

I think this is very unfair. Nowhere in the entire United States has the type of reforms proposed in Arlington. Of course people who have worked hard to make their homes here are worried. This is an extreme proposal and it should (but will not) be dialed back to try and thread the needle in a way that balances things out and recognizes the infrastructure issues. We can have change without going nuclear.

I think this is very delusional. Try slumming it one day and drive through South Arlington. Plenty of examples that have been there for decades now. South Glebe Rd - they just slapped up some more oluxury townhouses on a little slip of land located across the street from a couple of apartment buildings, and then across the road there is a small infill build of large luxury SFH houses from about 10 years ago, a couple duplexes next to that, then next to that shoehorned in on some awkward strip another set of townhouses that are about 15 years old. Tons of small SFH homes behind that. Across the street a hand full of infill build townhomes from a decade ago then next to that some habit for humanity townhomes also from a 12+ yrs ago and next to that this small little apartment building that has seriously been there forever but recently got repainted and I think some renovations. Oh wait I forget that one SFH with what appears to be junkyard that grows in the front yard. All that infill building and people happily purchased those homes at very high prices. Those people worked hard to make their homes here. There is absolutely nothing extreme about this proposal because it already happens. They are just making sure it happens more places.

I don't know if people like you are really this dumb but you do realize that only certain lots are going to be useful for a developer. Duplexes and tri plexes might be ok for an individual home builder but actual developer companies want something that will be a community. That's their business. They don't build one off houses. So the actual number of lots that are going to meet that need in North Arlington that they can buy at a cost that will allow them to recoup their investment is pretty limited. They aren't going to bother to buy SFHs to tear down to replace. It's too costly in terms of dollars and time. They might take down a single small house but what they really want is land and no existing building. It's quicker and less costly. Remember they deal in volume. Now the smaller home builders, They might do the duplex but maybe not. It's a different kind of build verses one single family home. There is a start up cost if the builder isn't already in that space that might be too costly and time consuming to consider. Two smaller SFH on the same lot is more likely. What is not likely is that any of those home will be substantially less in cost that any other home in the neighborhood. They will be slightly less but not much less. And "affordable housing" ?? Forget it. Too expensive to deal with unless someone gives them the house and a substantial lot for free. Even with tax credits that can't offset the cost enough to make it profitable.

tl;dr for those interested: calls people dumb, proceeds to sound like he / she has room temperature IQ.

Yeah, that was pretty hilarious. I hope that clueless person is just another disgruntled citizen without any influence over this process.

[Anonymous]

It is already so difficult to build infill lots in Arlington County, with the numerous layers of red tape (e.g. stormwater runoff regulations), which is one reason (among several) why new builds are so expensive and therefore builders target the uber wealthy with them.

I just don't foresee a huge amount of these missing middle housing units being built. I think it's a lot riskier to find 4 buyers for a quadplex when you can just deal with one buyer for a SFH. I don't think the margins are there, not in huge numbers that will change the feel of the neighborhood, at least.

[Anonymous]

Who needs buyers when you can rent to recent grads at $2,500-3,000/month

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Who needs buyers when you can rent to recent grads at $2,500-3,000/month

I think that is a valid point

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who needs buyers when you can rent to recent grads at $2,500-3,000/month

I think that is a valid point

Yes, this is what will happen. Multifamily housing will be rentals. There will be more opportunity to rent in Arlington and less opportunity to own a home. This is already a county of renters and it will become even moreso under the Missing Middle changes. Whether that is good or bad is a matter of opinion, but it’s undoubtedly the truth of the matter.